RE: [Vo]:Article on Dennis Danzik - Inventor of EarthEngine (magmo)
Nigel, Interesting. This old patent (Grander patent) sounds very much like one part or facet of the IEC device. But that patent lapsed so it probably did not work. Curiously, the WIPO has a valid disclosure classification called “Alleged dynamo-electric perpetua mobilia “ H02K53/00 Which is a recognition that there could be economic value in such conceptions - even if not obvious-- and even if “alleged”… Gotta luv the latent duplicity there…. Yet ... It could be true there are two separate effects going on – each small and almost un-noticeable but together they could be useful, even if they only increase efficiency in any motor with permanent magnets. One of the effects appears to be geometric – and Jürg’s 4D understanding of spin could be applicable. I can see no other reason for the 90 degree PTO than to allow for some kind of distorted spin-spin coupling. Well… no rationale other than the complex self-delusion of an inventor who does not appear to be dishonest, but is also far from forthcoming…. From: Nigel Dyer I posted this link on Vortex in response to the recent posts on magnetic energy generators https://patents.google.com/patent/WO1982003300A1/en?oq=WO+82%2f03300 I have reason to beleive that there is a working version of this. Nigel JonesBeene wrote: BTW – this German patent turns up https://patents.google.com/patent/DE4304132A1/en The information in the patent could be instructive – IF – there is any anomaly at all in the Danzik device. They are suggesting a low rpm anomaly – which could involve spin-spin coupling interactions on several levels. --- I agree with Terry that there is no known reason in physics for this device to work. And… there are lots of reasons including centuries of experience as witnessed in a litany of failed attempts - for this kind of device not to work. Curiously, Terry was involved in a magmo project which was arguably related to this one in that it involved a large very mass of very strong magnets. In both cases, if the experimental device had indeed worked - and thereby violated the LoT (big IF) then… at its most fundamental basis… there would have been some kind of “super-size it” effect which converts disorder into order on a sufficient scale to pass a thermodynamic tipping point … or so the argument goes. Such a hypothetical negentropy effect - in the most general terms, would somehow employ magnetic precession and unbalanced field effects as an ordering principle. The LoT can be viewed as the overriding force for disorder (randomness) in nature and the magnetic field itself creates some amount of order out of disorder. But so far in human history – no one has been able to overcome this tendency for disorder by simply scaling up to a larger mass of ordered material. Nevertheless, I predict that humans will keep on trying to “supersize it” – even if Dennis Danzik adds his name to a long list of failures… Several tons of ordered mass may not work - but next time someone (with disdain for “laws”) will try to assemble several tens of tons From: Terry Blanton Subject: Re: [Vo]:Article on Dennis Danzik - Inventor of EarthEngine (magmo) Pulse driven flywheels. They have a big yellow battery driving them. See Bedini. The magnetic cycle is conservative.
Re: [Vo]:Article on Dennis Danzik - Inventor of EarthEngine (magmo)
There is a real chance that we soon can answer one part of the question. In LENR experiments we see spontaneous cooling much faster than the environment allows. This effect is predicted by the magnetic coupling induced fusion and thus no surprise. But the answer we like to know is: Is the cooling emitting gamma radiation,what would be a clear violation of the second law as ambient heat is up-scaled to gamma quanta or is the energy transported via magnetic coupling. Anyway: Classic SM physics does not know about SO(4) physics rules and the second torus radius related spin force that is virtually responsible for most "unexplained" effects like true cause of SC, rest potential of hydrogen, the spin-pairing energy in e.g. 4-He, true photon orbit in dense matter etc... Jürg Am 01.06.19 um 09:28 schrieb Nigel Dyer: There is also this patent from 1982 https://patents.google.com/patent/WO1982003300A1/en?oq=WO+82%2f03300 Nigel On 17/05/2019 14:50, JonesBeene wrote: BTW – this German patent turns up https://patents.google.com/patent/DE4304132A1/en The information in the patent could be instructive – IF – there is any anomaly at all in the Danzik device. They are suggesting a low rpm anomaly – which could involve spin-spin coupling interactions on several levels. --- I agree with Terry that there is no known reason in physics for this device to work. And… there are lots of reasons including centuries of experience as witnessed in a litany of failed attempts - for this kind of device not to work. Curiously, Terry was involved in a magmo project which was arguably related to this one in that it involved a large very mass of very strong magnets. In both cases, if the experimental device had indeed worked - and thereby violated the LoT (big IF) then… at its most fundamental basis… there would have been some kind of “super-size it” effect which converts disorder into order on a sufficient scale to pass a thermodynamic tipping point … or so the argument goes. Such a hypothetical negentropy effect - in the most general terms, would somehow employ magnetic precession and unbalanced field effects as an ordering principle. The LoT can be viewed as the overriding force for disorder (randomness) in nature and the magnetic field itself creates some amount of order out of disorder. But so far in human history – no one has been able to overcome this tendency for disorder by simply scaling up to a larger mass of ordered material. Nevertheless, I predict that humans will keep on trying to “supersize it” – even if Dennis Danzik adds his name to a long list of failures… Several tons of ordered mass may not work - but next time someone (with disdain for “laws”) will try to assemble several tens of tons *From: *Terry Blanton <mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com> *Subject: *Re: [Vo]:Article on Dennis Danzik - Inventor of EarthEngine (magmo) Pulse driven flywheels. They have a big yellow battery driving them. See Bedini. The magnetic cycle is conservative. -- Jürg Wyttenbach Bifangstr.22 8910 Affoltern a.A. 044 760 14 18 079 246 36 06
Re: [Vo]:Article on Dennis Danzik - Inventor of EarthEngine (magmo)
There is also this patent from 1982 https://patents.google.com/patent/WO1982003300A1/en?oq=WO+82%2f03300 Nigel On 17/05/2019 14:50, JonesBeene wrote: BTW – this German patent turns up https://patents.google.com/patent/DE4304132A1/en The information in the patent could be instructive – IF – there is any anomaly at all in the Danzik device. They are suggesting a low rpm anomaly – which could involve spin-spin coupling interactions on several levels. --- I agree with Terry that there is no known reason in physics for this device to work. And… there are lots of reasons including centuries of experience as witnessed in a litany of failed attempts - for this kind of device not to work. Curiously, Terry was involved in a magmo project which was arguably related to this one in that it involved a large very mass of very strong magnets. In both cases, if the experimental device had indeed worked - and thereby violated the LoT (big IF) then… at its most fundamental basis… there would have been some kind of “super-size it” effect which converts disorder into order on a sufficient scale to pass a thermodynamic tipping point … or so the argument goes. Such a hypothetical negentropy effect - in the most general terms, would somehow employ magnetic precession and unbalanced field effects as an ordering principle. The LoT can be viewed as the overriding force for disorder (randomness) in nature and the magnetic field itself creates some amount of order out of disorder. But so far in human history – no one has been able to overcome this tendency for disorder by simply scaling up to a larger mass of ordered material. Nevertheless, I predict that humans will keep on trying to “supersize it” – even if Dennis Danzik adds his name to a long list of failures… Several tons of ordered mass may not work - but next time someone (with disdain for “laws”) will try to assemble several tens of tons *From: *Terry Blanton <mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com> *Subject: *Re: [Vo]:Article on Dennis Danzik - Inventor of EarthEngine (magmo) Pulse driven flywheels. They have a big yellow battery driving them. See Bedini. The magnetic cycle is conservative.
RE: [Vo]:Article on Dennis Danzik - Inventor of EarthEngine (magmo)
Scale up is frequently a bad idea IMHO Take fission nuclear power business (a model for fusion nuclear power business. ) CONS: * It takes a long time to manufacture big reactor equipment and complex systems on-site away from labor forces. * Up front costs are high and returns on those capital costs may not materialize as time goes by. * Safety considerations are often neglected or margins reduced to save existing capital. * Future decommissioning costs and hazards are frequently ignored at substantial cost and environmental degradation for the affected society. * Competition is lost since big equipment limits the manufacturing entities available to do the required manufacturing. This issue alone did-in fission power in the United States IMHO. * Expensive grid distribution of energy is necessary, with loss in reliability as population density increases. * Fosters’ fraud and abuse in an ever evolving political/nuclear power industrial complex (including cost accounting authorities giving a green light for accounting loopholes associated with excessive overhead. PROS: * Creates economic benefits for nuclear engineers, utility personnel and even politicians. The “nuclear village” in Japan is a good example of this Pro which, ironically, seems to be causing the demise of fission nuclear power in that country following the Fukushima disaster, stemming from reactor plant design and cost cutting regarding safety and environmental issues . Bob Cook From: JonesBeene<mailto:jone...@pacbell.net>. Sent: Friday, May 17, 2019 10:51 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com> Subject: RE: [Vo]:Article on Dennis Danzik - Inventor of EarthEngine (magmo) Well… Actually there is some logic behind scaleup in many endeavors. The iron and steel industry were built on economies of scale – for instance, so we know it works in situations where the rationale is not completely clear. ITER is an example of having a false rationale due to a muddled understanding of parameters, and represents another extreme in the spectrum of self-delusion. At least Danzik has not yet wasted billions. The gravity machine - RAR – from Brazil, undoubtedly cost millions to supersize – and the expense was incurred by people who had operated a successful ongoing business so they were self-delusional but likely had more of a rational basis than we realize. Inventors are often charismatic beyond all rationality - as the Rossi fiasco has shown. Plus there were reports that the RAR machine did self-rotate for extended periods with no load. Same with a few magmo efforts. If the magnetic field – in general - could be boosted by gravity then there is some reason to try to scale up a magmo in mass in order to use gravity - and these French researchers are not ignorant of the implications of their findings - but Catch-22, the benefit of gravity to magnetism is slight – parts per thousand. https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2814-earths-magnetic-field-boosts-gravity/ Plus, the Danzik device does not appear to be going in that direction other than he indicates the 90 degree PTO is needed. In the end, experiment rules. I would love to see a clear exception to the LoT. Consequently, I hope the Danzik thing is not another scam, but as of now – he has not been able to convince many skeptics. From: Jed Rothwell<mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com> JonesBeene wrote: Nevertheless, I predict that humans will keep on trying to “supersize it” – even as Dennis Danzik adds his name to a long list of failures… It is odd how people like this think "it will work if only I try it on a large scale." Like . . . I don't know, the ITER tokamak reactor? (Ha, ha. They have technical reasons for scaling up. Maybe not good ones, but technical.) There have been many gratuitously scaled up experiments, such as Maxim's airplane (https://www.uh.edu/engines/epi1738.htm), and that giant machine that is supposedly powered by gravity. In South America? I can't remember where.
RE: [Vo]:Article on Dennis Danzik - Inventor of EarthEngine (magmo)
Well… Actually there is some logic behind scaleup in many endeavors. The iron and steel industry were built on economies of scale – for instance, so we know it works in situations where the rationale is not completely clear. ITER is an example of having a false rationale due to a muddled understanding of parameters, and represents another extreme in the spectrum of self-delusion. At least Danzik has not yet wasted billions. The gravity machine - RAR – from Brazil, undoubtedly cost millions to supersize – and the expense was incurred by people who had operated a successful ongoing business so they were self-delusional but likely had more of a rational basis than we realize. Inventors are often charismatic beyond all rationality - as the Rossi fiasco has shown. Plus there were reports that the RAR machine did self-rotate for extended periods with no load. Same with a few magmo efforts. If the magnetic field – in general - could be boosted by gravity then there is some reason to try to scale up a magmo in mass in order to use gravity - and these French researchers are not ignorant of the implications of their findings - but Catch-22, the benefit of gravity to magnetism is slight – parts per thousand. https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2814-earths-magnetic-field-boosts-gravity/ Plus, the Danzik device does not appear to be going in that direction other than he indicates the 90 degree PTO is needed. In the end, experiment rules. I would love to see a clear exception to the LoT. Consequently, I hope the Danzik thing is not another scam, but as of now – he has not been able to convince many skeptics. From: Jed Rothwell JonesBeene wrote: Nevertheless, I predict that humans will keep on trying to “supersize it” – even as Dennis Danzik adds his name to a long list of failures… It is odd how people like this think "it will work if only I try it on a large scale." Like . . . I don't know, the ITER tokamak reactor? (Ha, ha. They have technical reasons for scaling up. Maybe not good ones, but technical.) There have been many gratuitously scaled up experiments, such as Maxim's airplane (https://www.uh.edu/engines/epi1738.htm), and that giant machine that is supposedly powered by gravity. In South America? I can't remember where.
Re: [Vo]:Article on Dennis Danzik - Inventor of EarthEngine (magmo)
I wrote: > There have been many gratuitously scaled up experiments, such as Maxim's > airplane . . . > And, of course, Rossi's 1 MW reactor! - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Article on Dennis Danzik - Inventor of EarthEngine (magmo)
JonesBeene wrote: > Nevertheless, I predict that humans will keep on trying to “supersize it” > – even is Dennis Danzik adds his name to a long list of failures… > It is odd how people like this think "it will work if only I try it on a large scale." Like . . . I don't know, the ITER tokamak reactor? (Ha, ha. They have technical reasons for scaling up. Maybe not good ones, but technical.) There have been many gratuitously scaled up experiments, such as Maxim's airplane (https://www.uh.edu/engines/epi1738.htm), and that giant machine that is supposedly powered by gravity. In South America? I can't remember where.
RE: [Vo]:Article on Dennis Danzik - Inventor of EarthEngine (magmo)
BTW – this German patent turns up https://patents.google.com/patent/DE4304132A1/en The information in the patent could be instructive – IF – there is any anomaly at all in the Danzik device. They are suggesting a low rpm anomaly – which could involve spin-spin coupling interactions on several levels. --- I agree with Terry that there is no known reason in physics for this device to work. And… there are lots of reasons including centuries of experience as witnessed in a litany of failed attempts - for this kind of device not to work. Curiously, Terry was involved in a magmo project which was arguably related to this one in that it involved a large very mass of very strong magnets. In both cases, if the experimental device had indeed worked - and thereby violated the LoT (big IF) then… at its most fundamental basis… there would have been some kind of “super-size it” effect which converts disorder into order on a sufficient scale to pass a thermodynamic tipping point … or so the argument goes. Such a hypothetical negentropy effect - in the most general terms, would somehow employ magnetic precession and unbalanced field effects as an ordering principle. The LoT can be viewed as the overriding force for disorder (randomness) in nature and the magnetic field itself creates some amount of order out of disorder. But so far in human history – no one has been able to overcome this tendency for disorder by simply scaling up to a larger mass of ordered material. Nevertheless, I predict that humans will keep on trying to “supersize it” – even if Dennis Danzik adds his name to a long list of failures… Several tons of ordered mass may not work - but next time someone (with disdain for “laws”) will try to assemble several tens of tons From: Terry Blanton Subject: Re: [Vo]:Article on Dennis Danzik - Inventor of EarthEngine (magmo) Pulse driven flywheels. They have a big yellow battery driving them. See Bedini. The magnetic cycle is conservative.
RE: [Vo]:Article on Dennis Danzik - Inventor of EarthEngine (magmo)
I agree with Terry that there is no known reason in physics for this device to work. And… there are lots of reasons including centuries of experience as witnessed in a litany of failed attempts - for this kind of device not to work. Curiously, Terry was involved in a magmo project which was arguably related to this one in that it involved a large very mass of very strong magnets. In both cases, if the experimental device had indeed worked - and thereby violated the LoT (big IF) then… at its most fundamental basis… there would have been some kind of “super-size it” effect which converts disorder into order on a sufficient scale to pass athermodynamic tipping point … or so the argument goes. Such a hypothetical negentropy effect - in the most general terms, would somehow employ magnetic precession and unbalanced field effects as an ordering principle. The LoT can be viewed as the overriding force for disorder (randomness) in nature and the magnetic field itself creates some amount of order out of disorder. But so far in human history – no one has been able to overcome this tendency for disorder by simply scaling up to a larger mass of ordered material. Nevertheless, I predict that humans will keep on trying to “supersize it” – even is Dennis Danzik adds his name to a long list of failures… Several tons of ordered mass may not work - but next time someone (with disdain for “laws”) will try to assemble several tens of tons From: Terry Blanton Subject: Re: [Vo]:Article on Dennis Danzik - Inventor of EarthEngine (magmo) Pulse driven flywheels. They have a big yellow battery driving them. See Bedini. The magnetic cycle is conservative.
Re: [Vo]:Article on Dennis Danzik - Inventor of EarthEngine (magmo)
Pulse driven flywheels. They have a big yellow battery driving them. See Bedini. The magnetic cycle is conservative.
Re: [Vo]:Article on Dennis Danzik - Inventor of EarthEngine (magmo)
In reply to JonesBeene's message of Thu, 16 May 2019 17:00:02 -0700: Hi, [snip] >This favorable article was written by a WSJ writer, but has not appeared in >the WSJ yet. > >https://revolution-green.com/one-mans-unlikely-quest-power-world-magnets/ > Quote:- >This is where the IECs strange story takes a stranger turn. In another part >of the building, the company is already manufacturing generators based on his >radical ideas. Big ones. IEC says its first commercial model, the R32 Earth >Engine, hucks two 900-kilogram flywheels at speeds between 125 and 250 rpm, >generating 240V or 480V at 100 amps. On the high side, thats 4.8 kilowatts, ...eh, no it isn't. it's 48 kW. >about what a small backup diesel generator puts out. But unlike a diesel >generator, the company says, the R32 produces no emissions, no noise (the unit >comes in a vacuum-sealed, tamper-proof housing) and uses no fuel." Regards, Robin van Spaandonk local asymmetry = temporary success
