Re: Incubation status
Hi Ali Please invite me to the discussion wave. My wave id is fr...@wave-dev.alown.co.uk Regards, Frank On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Ali Lown a...@lown.me.uk wrote: For those calling for a new place to both a) dogfood the product b) discuss the next development stage at the same time! Register an account on https://wave-dev.alown.co.uk, and join the discussions. (Shameless plug) Ali On 28 November 2013 15:32, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: @Fleeky: lets finally have discussion for development happen on a public wave ;) I agree that the dogfooding should really have been a thing, but it hasn't been possible here. (Though I hestitate to say whether Wave is stable enough for multiple users heavily editing a Wave - my anecdotal data says it tends to 'get stuck' around the 100 blips mark). this is precisely Why we have to dogfood it, because when the problems happen in something semi critical like a discussion about wave it will more likely get fixed. im glad someone is finally bringing all of this up though, it needed to be said. On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Christian Grobmeier grobme...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, On 28 Nov 2013, at 15:18, Ali Lown wrote: @Christian: Playing the devils advocate I ask you (again): Is this still Devil's advocate though? I have had a very similar email sitting in my drafts for the last month asking the same questions about the future of Wave. Sad :-| Do you folks believe the incubator can ever be completed as it is now? If you believe yes, please let me know why or how we can achieve that goal. Otherwise my recommendation is to move Wave to GitHub and close the incubation until the community around Wave has grown. I shall answer your questions throughout this email, though it probably suffices to say that I no longer think Apache Incubator is the right place for Wave (in its current form). The Incubator has a specific goal. Maybe once the project has an active (developing!) community again, the ASF might be the right place again. One large benefit speaking for such an org as the ASF is that we maintain a clean IP. Its reducing risk for companies. However, if you start carefully with that at GitHub too its no problem. Not even to come back. (With retirement: what happens to the project's source code license? Does it become public domain instead of licensed to the ASF?) In ASF terms it goes to the attic which is a read-only repository. The code there remains in AL 2.0. With AL 2.0 it is possible for you to fork it to GitHub which is more or less what happens. You can work on the code as you like and release your own packages in the way you like. However you can't simply change the license of some existing code. I don't know the specifics but if you plan to change the license it's better to ask some other folks here at the ASF. If want to keep AL 2.0 which I would love, then no problem. There will be one issue to solve which is the trademarks thing. To my knowledge the trademark has been transferred to the ASF. We need to ask at Apache Branding if you want to keep the current names. Usually the ASF keeps trademarks. In example, the Apache iBatis project renamed itself to MyBatis after moving away. However in incubating projects I have seen people taking away the names too, like Zeta Components. Once this has been cleared it should be no problem for you to move on. Please note that you should set up a new mailinglist before the retirement happens. ML are closed once the project retires. And you certainly want to get people moving to the new resource before that happens. Please let me know if you have any more questions. Cheers Christian @FrankR: You already have it - wave on github. Here, https://github.com/apache/wave Yes, the code is on GitHub. (Though this is simply a one-mirror of the Apache SVN tree). [Though, if we retire the project that will no longer exist - I suggest watching one of the personal trees (e.g. mine) https://github.com/alown/wave]. When people are calling for GitHub, they are actually asking for the development style that it uses: Git, Pull Requests, Quick-forking, Less 'paperwork'. [And to some extent the 'coolness' factor - which is not to be underestimated for getting development support]. @Fleeky: lets finally have discussion for development happen on a public wave ;) I agree that the dogfooding should really have been a thing, but it hasn't been possible here. (Though I hestitate to say whether Wave is stable enough for multiple users heavily editing a Wave - my anecdotal data says it tends to 'get stuck' around the 100 blips mark). @Thomas: Speaking as someone unable to contribute code to the client as its too heavily tide into the server (which I cant make heads not
Re: Wave Kickstarter
I still want a web client, but it should be written in pure javascript. GWT is already pure javascript. Writing Directly rather then via Java doesn't give any real advantages in the end result - it just means you rule out code sharing between client and server, an give yourself more work in terms of writing around browser differences and having to optimize for the web. There's things other then GWT that can do that, but raw javascript just adds a tone more work to web client development. That said, I pretty much agree with everything else. I would suggest, however, you need a few people ready to work on specific goals for a specific amount. And what can be achieved is kept very clear. Unfortunately no one will understand a kickstarter talking about OT. (or, not enough to get the money I think). It all needs to be put into real terms. Multiple clients and use's with a single federate realtime protocol is still a very big deal - no one has experience of that at the moment. The hard part is getting across all the use-case's for it. Or, rather, the specific ones you plan to make possible with the kickstarter. For my part, I am happy again to contribute (for free) whenever there is a separation of the GWT client. Or even a clean client/server protocol to build a new web client from stretch. Additionally, I have an Augmented Reality specific client application I wrote, coded for Android phones. The idea was anyone could annotate anything anywhere, and share it with whoever they want. The app is working (mostly)...except it has no sever to connect too. Nothing at the moment forfills the requirement. Once theres a client/server protocol to a wave server I could very quickly put out this (imho) rather cool Android client and I think it will attack a fair bit of attention. ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 06:09, Angus Turner ad...@theangus.org wrote: That's actually a really good idea. Id be happy to help out with organising. It sounds perfect for Wave, as there's tonnes of interest but not much programming ability. I would be interested in helping out with the actual programming but my expertise is in python not Java. On Sunday, 1 December 2013, Joseph Gentle wrote: I still really want to make the wave platform we've been talking about for awhile. I just don't have any time because I need to work to eat. So I've spent the last month thinking about running a kickstarter to fund the work. Christian's email was really timely. I want arbitrary JSON documents, or arbitrary embedding like we talked about a few months ago. I want a protocol based on real P2P algorithms rather than the hacky mess we have at the moment with trees of servers connecting via an XMPP extension I want the same fundamental protocol to work server-server or server-client. The OT stuff should work like git. No single person can maintain our 500k of legacy java code. I want to write a better version with much cleaner separation of OT protocol and application specifics. I still want a web client, but it should be written in pure javascript. Messages should be cryptographically secure from snooping. The way I see it, there's fundamentally three pieces that make up wave: 1. A set of OT primitives which allow peers to generate interpret operations 2. A platform on top of (1) for exchanging operations between networked peers 3. An application on top of (2) which is trying to replace email These pieces should be separate from one another, and usable in other contexts. I have a clear idea of how we can make (1) and (2) work. The OT part we've talked about on the list and I've been slowly prototyping out here: http://github.com/josephg/tp2stuff I have a bunch of applications I want to build on top of a platform like this. For example, I want my text editor, compiler unit tests to all talk to one another so my text editor doesn't need language-specific completion or syntax checking, and so my friends can jump in and help me code. I don't know what the best way to build (3) is - but I'm more than happy to build the platform that a new kind of email could be built on top of. Maybe the current WIAB design is totally fine for that part - though I want end-to-end encryption. I don't know when the right time to do this would be. I don't know if I should work alone or if we should put a team together (Hi Ali!). If I were to do this properly it would take about a month of prep to get a kickstarter together, and if it is successful I'd want to quit my job to do it. I think it'd take me about 6 months to a year of work to get a stable, secure platform working (probably closer to a year), and I'm also not allowed to stay in the US without an employer on my visa. The earliest this will probably happen is the
Re: Incubation status
Brilliant! I created an eventhttps://plus.google.com/events/cbocjojr99iqo1gmsmr5m9ohams. I'll share my limited experience. Everyone is welcomed to join. On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:23 PM, Robert Brumbelow rkbrumbe...@gmail.comwrote: Or, it might be worthwhile to do a 'hangout on air' video or a screen cast of installation / config / admin use. On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Jon wright jon.wright1...@gmail.com wrote: So, it appears that I could do with running some 'tutoring' sessions with people to cover a) Running a server b) Advanced server admin: a) SSL, b) Federation c) Codebase overview - with a focus on the client side for all the GWT coders around. Ali That would be really useful and welcome. And even though its not writing code its probably more of a contribution to the project because thats what it needs the most. (Hop on to wave-dev.alown.co.uk and we can discuss this... :p) I cant right now because I'm in the office working. But I would say it would be worth while picking a time in the future where a number of us can go through the steps involved together. Then as other people get familiar with how things work, they can do the same. Good suggestion..! -- Kelly Brumbelow
Re: Incubation status
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 12:10 AM, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: ok , what i would like to know. who among you on this mailing list is actually using wave in some capacity ? and for what ? do you run your own wave server ? if not why ? I have 30 waves on my own server. The others in my team have an average of 3. My company policy is against third party cloud applications. I want the features of google doc badly for book keeping and sharing contents among multiple operating systems. I'm using google doc so much that I become so lazy to press CTRL+S, and I hate to have a lot of versions of my documents that I need to compare and merge. personally i run my own wave server, and use it mainly as a google doc replacement. Same here - a replacement of google doc, and evernote for someone else. robert, first off which people are you talking about ? people on this list ? or the general populace? if people on this list are too scared to dip there toes into something that may have a few bugs then we are certainly doomed. robert, you are right but you are also wrong, your right in that the way your talking about is nice and orderly and logical. the problem is , expecting all of that will never happen unless you personally do so. what i am proposing is for people to get there hands dirty in any way possible. can you code? great wave needs coders more then anything. but if you cant code, you can atleast use wave and get an idea for what works and what doesnt, what the bugs are, wave needs people to use it just as much as it needs people to make code for it at this point. get your hands dirty, thats all im asking also to answer your question : I DO draw in new users, maybe not at the level or speed any of you deem worthy, but i use wave to share documents with people. as i said i make a dummy account and then have my friends use it to view a document id like them to look at. is it ideal? not at all, but then again wave is not at a point in its software development for there to be anything like an ideal. the point is to use , and to figure out how it can be usefull in its current state, rather then bickering about what it needs to be everyone's dream software. On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Robert Brumbelow rkbrumbe...@gmail.com wrote: Fleeky, i really dont understand why i have to be explaining the usefullness of using wave to communicate with the people on this list. its kindof amazing. [sic] Probably because you have flawed presuppositions. I assume people who have never seen Wave have never seen Wave, not that they know how to use it. When teaching someone to drive a car, I have them observe, read, study, and after they have done the prerequisites I would put them in a training car. People want to see what Wave can do before they jump in and use it frequently. I am glad you have done all these things on your own, but tell me how is having done them yourself drawing in new users and developers along with generating interest? It may be happening, I don't see it. I am not talking about dogfooding, I am talking about intro and basic training so people can get up to speed. On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: robert if using wave to learn wave is self defeating , i think wave the purpose of wave has been lost. wave is a communications platform, if it cant communicate how to use itself doesnt that seem a bit silly? an ideal situation would be publicly viewable waves that are potentially read only , or parts are (wave could use permissions). but a more realistic way that i use on my own server is to have an anonymous account. this way you tell people to login via that and they can interact with the waves you have shared with that account. i really dont understand why i have to be explaining the usefullness of using wave to communicate with the people on this list. its kindof amazing. fleeky On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Robert Brumbelow rkbrumbe...@gmail.com wrote: Fleeky, those are fine for us, they will do little for outside exposure. I would suspect having to use wave in order to learn to use wave might be self defeating. On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Building+Wave+in+a+Box https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Home also there is #wiab on irc.freenode.net also Ali just a few emails up mentioned that you could start a discussion on his wave server , why not try those things first? and if there is a problem, go to Ali's wave server and simply start a problems wave add the participant @domain to the wave and everyone inclduing Ali on that server should be able to see your problem wave, and maybe attempt to answer your problem.
Re: Incubation status
Where to read the requirements? And, the status of the works against them? Thanks. On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 4:41 AM, Christian Grobmeier grobme...@gmail.comwrote: On 29 Nov 2013, at 16:40, Fleeky Flanco wrote: i really dont understand why i have to be explaining the usefullness of using wave to communicate with the people on this list. its kindof amazing. If you don't understand why we operate on a mailing list then you probably have not understood that the ASF tries to develop in an open way. All discussions must held public and must be archived for a long time. The only solution so far is mailing lists. Wave is simply not that far to provide that at the moment. Of course there is an opportunity to bring Wave to the ASF. But there are a lot of requirements to meet. If you want to develop here, you need to fulfill these requirements. We have discussed that several times. Every of the committers understood these requirements and were working against them. However Wave is not there yet. This doesn't answer the question which was initially asked: is the ASF the right place? Or more precise: can we as a project ever succeed the incubator and become an ASF project? This has nothing to do with the great technology behind Wave nor the willingness of people. It is: is there enough manpower to live the ASF way or not. Christian fleeky On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Robert Brumbelow rkbrumbe...@gmail.com wrote: Fleeky, those are fine for us, they will do little for outside exposure. I would suspect having to use wave in order to learn to use wave might be self defeating. On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Building+Wave+in+a+Box https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Home also there is #wiab on irc.freenode.net also Ali just a few emails up mentioned that you could start a discussion on his wave server , why not try those things first? and if there is a problem, go to Ali's wave server and simply start a problems wave add the participant @domain to the wave and everyone inclduing Ali on that server should be able to see your problem wave, and maybe attempt to answer your problem. -fleeky On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Robert Brumbelow rkbrumbe...@gmail.com wrote: Thomas, Hangouts on air are the recorded versions of Google Hangouts, they are streamed and recorded via Youtube. Screencasts, I thought, also defaulted to being recorded. I know during my years of teaching, video was often preferred by students simply because even in step by step instruction, aka hand holding, there would be something glossed over, ignored or assumed known by students or the teacher. Video shows every keystroke, command and mouse movement -- Kelly Brumbelow --- http://www.grobmeier.de @grobmeier GPG: 0xA5CC90DB
Re: Incubation status
Perhaps, we can have a temporary robot, say incubator-bot, to publish waves for a wave in a box server back to the mail list. That should be too difficult to have. On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 6:44 AM, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: christian, from my observations of the project i would have to answer no, its not working out ? pardon my passion on this subject (@mailing list) but ive kept quiet for too long. id rather get an argument started on this rather then let wave die the slow death that it is currently facing. passion is what wave needs right now, not patience. i dont think moving wave to github or getting everyone to actually use wave will magically make everything better, but i think that is a step in the right direction that Should have been taken a long time ago. theres no reason that moving discussion to a wave server reduces the open nature of the discussion, as stated previously, its trivial to make an anonymous account to grant anyone access to this discussion if it was on a wave server. also anyone can register on a wave server and participate in the discussion if the wave has been setup properly, theres even a patch somewhere for rendering wave files as html files which would make it searchable by google and everyone esle. federation should make propogating this data to multiple servers possible, using wave as the main discussion area maintains the openness , searchability, and also longevity of the discussion. On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 9:41 PM, Christian Grobmeier grobme...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 Nov 2013, at 16:40, Fleeky Flanco wrote: i really dont understand why i have to be explaining the usefullness of using wave to communicate with the people on this list. its kindof amazing. If you don't understand why we operate on a mailing list then you probably have not understood that the ASF tries to develop in an open way. All discussions must held public and must be archived for a long time. The only solution so far is mailing lists. Wave is simply not that far to provide that at the moment. Of course there is an opportunity to bring Wave to the ASF. But there are a lot of requirements to meet. If you want to develop here, you need to fulfill these requirements. We have discussed that several times. Every of the committers understood these requirements and were working against them. However Wave is not there yet. This doesn't answer the question which was initially asked: is the ASF the right place? Or more precise: can we as a project ever succeed the incubator and become an ASF project? This has nothing to do with the great technology behind Wave nor the willingness of people. It is: is there enough manpower to live the ASF way or not. Christian fleeky On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Robert Brumbelow rkbrumbe...@gmail.com wrote: Fleeky, those are fine for us, they will do little for outside exposure. I would suspect having to use wave in order to learn to use wave might be self defeating. On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Building+Wave+in+a+Box https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Home also there is #wiab on irc.freenode.net also Ali just a few emails up mentioned that you could start a discussion on his wave server , why not try those things first? and if there is a problem, go to Ali's wave server and simply start a problems wave add the participant @domain to the wave and everyone inclduing Ali on that server should be able to see your problem wave, and maybe attempt to answer your problem. -fleeky On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Robert Brumbelow rkbrumbe...@gmail.com wrote: Thomas, Hangouts on air are the recorded versions of Google Hangouts, they are streamed and recorded via Youtube. Screencasts, I thought, also defaulted to being recorded. I know during my years of teaching, video was often preferred by students simply because even in step by step instruction, aka hand holding, there would be something glossed over, ignored or assumed known by students or the teacher. Video shows every keystroke, command and mouse movement -- Kelly Brumbelow --- http://www.grobmeier.de @grobmeier GPG: 0xA5CC90DB
Re: Incubation status
On 1 Dec 2013, at 15:33, Frank R. wrote: Where to read the requirements? And, the status of the works against them? Here is some information you might find useful: http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html Please see the communication section in special. So far I have seen the project operates as described. However it needs to develop community and of course learn to release (Ali did a great job but didn't found enough support from this project). Moving communication to Wave only is NOT an option at this point of time. It has been discussed; one solution is to use Wave but send backups automatically to mailing lists. There was some work in that direction, but no results so far. Thanks. On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 4:41 AM, Christian Grobmeier grobme...@gmail.comwrote: On 29 Nov 2013, at 16:40, Fleeky Flanco wrote: i really dont understand why i have to be explaining the usefullness of using wave to communicate with the people on this list. its kindof amazing. If you don't understand why we operate on a mailing list then you probably have not understood that the ASF tries to develop in an open way. All discussions must held public and must be archived for a long time. The only solution so far is mailing lists. Wave is simply not that far to provide that at the moment. Of course there is an opportunity to bring Wave to the ASF. But there are a lot of requirements to meet. If you want to develop here, you need to fulfill these requirements. We have discussed that several times. Every of the committers understood these requirements and were working against them. However Wave is not there yet. This doesn't answer the question which was initially asked: is the ASF the right place? Or more precise: can we as a project ever succeed the incubator and become an ASF project? This has nothing to do with the great technology behind Wave nor the willingness of people. It is: is there enough manpower to live the ASF way or not. Christian fleeky On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Robert Brumbelow rkbrumbe...@gmail.com wrote: Fleeky, those are fine for us, they will do little for outside exposure. I would suspect having to use wave in order to learn to use wave might be self defeating. On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Building+Wave+in+a+Box https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Home also there is #wiab on irc.freenode.net also Ali just a few emails up mentioned that you could start a discussion on his wave server , why not try those things first? and if there is a problem, go to Ali's wave server and simply start a problems wave add the participant @domain to the wave and everyone inclduing Ali on that server should be able to see your problem wave, and maybe attempt to answer your problem. -fleeky On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Robert Brumbelow rkbrumbe...@gmail.com wrote: Thomas, Hangouts on air are the recorded versions of Google Hangouts, they are streamed and recorded via Youtube. Screencasts, I thought, also defaulted to being recorded. I know during my years of teaching, video was often preferred by students simply because even in step by step instruction, aka hand holding, there would be something glossed over, ignored or assumed known by students or the teacher. Video shows every keystroke, command and mouse movement -- Kelly Brumbelow --- http://www.grobmeier.de @grobmeier GPG: 0xA5CC90DB --- http://www.grobmeier.de @grobmeier GPG: 0xA5CC90DB
Re: Incubation status
On 1 Dec 2013, at 15:35, Frank R. wrote: Perhaps, we can have a temporary robot, say incubator-bot, to publish waves for a wave in a box server back to the mail list. That should be too difficult to have. Please search older mails in the archive. Somebody actually did some work in that direction On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 6:44 AM, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: christian, from my observations of the project i would have to answer no, its not working out ? pardon my passion on this subject (@mailing list) but ive kept quiet for too long. id rather get an argument started on this rather then let wave die the slow death that it is currently facing. passion is what wave needs right now, not patience. i dont think moving wave to github or getting everyone to actually use wave will magically make everything better, but i think that is a step in the right direction that Should have been taken a long time ago. theres no reason that moving discussion to a wave server reduces the open nature of the discussion, as stated previously, its trivial to make an anonymous account to grant anyone access to this discussion if it was on a wave server. also anyone can register on a wave server and participate in the discussion if the wave has been setup properly, theres even a patch somewhere for rendering wave files as html files which would make it searchable by google and everyone esle. federation should make propogating this data to multiple servers possible, using wave as the main discussion area maintains the openness , searchability, and also longevity of the discussion. On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 9:41 PM, Christian Grobmeier grobme...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 Nov 2013, at 16:40, Fleeky Flanco wrote: i really dont understand why i have to be explaining the usefullness of using wave to communicate with the people on this list. its kindof amazing. If you don't understand why we operate on a mailing list then you probably have not understood that the ASF tries to develop in an open way. All discussions must held public and must be archived for a long time. The only solution so far is mailing lists. Wave is simply not that far to provide that at the moment. Of course there is an opportunity to bring Wave to the ASF. But there are a lot of requirements to meet. If you want to develop here, you need to fulfill these requirements. We have discussed that several times. Every of the committers understood these requirements and were working against them. However Wave is not there yet. This doesn't answer the question which was initially asked: is the ASF the right place? Or more precise: can we as a project ever succeed the incubator and become an ASF project? This has nothing to do with the great technology behind Wave nor the willingness of people. It is: is there enough manpower to live the ASF way or not. Christian fleeky On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Robert Brumbelow rkbrumbe...@gmail.com wrote: Fleeky, those are fine for us, they will do little for outside exposure. I would suspect having to use wave in order to learn to use wave might be self defeating. On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Building+Wave+in+a+Box https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Home also there is #wiab on irc.freenode.net also Ali just a few emails up mentioned that you could start a discussion on his wave server , why not try those things first? and if there is a problem, go to Ali's wave server and simply start a problems wave add the participant @domain to the wave and everyone inclduing Ali on that server should be able to see your problem wave, and maybe attempt to answer your problem. -fleeky On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Robert Brumbelow rkbrumbe...@gmail.com wrote: Thomas, Hangouts on air are the recorded versions of Google Hangouts, they are streamed and recorded via Youtube. Screencasts, I thought, also defaulted to being recorded. I know during my years of teaching, video was often preferred by students simply because even in step by step instruction, aka hand holding, there would be something glossed over, ignored or assumed known by students or the teacher. Video shows every keystroke, command and mouse movement -- Kelly Brumbelow --- http://www.grobmeier.de @grobmeier GPG: 0xA5CC90DB --- http://www.grobmeier.de @grobmeier GPG: 0xA5CC90DB
Re: Incubation status
Christian is referring to CAORBtqwYOCXJK3r2QqFhqP+YQ0fas_m4U0oHX7AZiswm6CwPyQ By 'search the archives' - yes, you can sometimes use Google for the task. But sometimes, it is easier to simply manually look through them for a subject that describes what you are searching for. (In this case 'email bridge bot'). Ali On 1 December 2013 17:00, Frank R. renfeng...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the response. But, I don't think it can be a trivial task to find the old mails. Because all the key words I can think of are too commonly seen: wave, mail list, communication. e.g. site:mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-wave-commits/ communication - Google Searchhttps://www.google.com/search?espv=210es_sm=119q=site%3Amail-archives.apache.org%2Fmod_mbox%2Fincubator-wave-commits%2F+communicationoq=site%3Amail-archives.apache.org%2Fmod_mbox%2Fincubator-wave-commits%2F+communicationgs_l=serp.3...5525.10115.0.10476.21.17.4.0.0.1.424.2205.8j3j4j0j1.16.0.starcuni...0...1.1.32.serp..21.0.0.wFjSHgW9WHU On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 11:30 PM, Christian Grobmeier grobme...@gmail.comwrote: On 1 Dec 2013, at 15:35, Frank R. wrote: Perhaps, we can have a temporary robot, say incubator-bot, to publish waves for a wave in a box server back to the mail list. That should be too difficult to have. Please search older mails in the archive. Somebody actually did some work in that direction On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 6:44 AM, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: christian, from my observations of the project i would have to answer no, its not working out ? pardon my passion on this subject (@mailing list) but ive kept quiet for too long. id rather get an argument started on this rather then let wave die the slow death that it is currently facing. passion is what wave needs right now, not patience. i dont think moving wave to github or getting everyone to actually use wave will magically make everything better, but i think that is a step in the right direction that Should have been taken a long time ago. theres no reason that moving discussion to a wave server reduces the open nature of the discussion, as stated previously, its trivial to make an anonymous account to grant anyone access to this discussion if it was on a wave server. also anyone can register on a wave server and participate in the discussion if the wave has been setup properly, theres even a patch somewhere for rendering wave files as html files which would make it searchable by google and everyone esle. federation should make propogating this data to multiple servers possible, using wave as the main discussion area maintains the openness , searchability, and also longevity of the discussion. On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 9:41 PM, Christian Grobmeier grobme...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 Nov 2013, at 16:40, Fleeky Flanco wrote: i really dont understand why i have to be explaining the usefullness of using wave to communicate with the people on this list. its kindof amazing. If you don't understand why we operate on a mailing list then you probably have not understood that the ASF tries to develop in an open way. All discussions must held public and must be archived for a long time. The only solution so far is mailing lists. Wave is simply not that far to provide that at the moment. Of course there is an opportunity to bring Wave to the ASF. But there are a lot of requirements to meet. If you want to develop here, you need to fulfill these requirements. We have discussed that several times. Every of the committers understood these requirements and were working against them. However Wave is not there yet. This doesn't answer the question which was initially asked: is the ASF the right place? Or more precise: can we as a project ever succeed the incubator and become an ASF project? This has nothing to do with the great technology behind Wave nor the willingness of people. It is: is there enough manpower to live the ASF way or not. Christian fleeky On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Robert Brumbelow rkbrumbe...@gmail.com wrote: Fleeky, those are fine for us, they will do little for outside exposure. I would suspect having to use wave in order to learn to use wave might be self defeating. On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/ Building+Wave+in+a+Box https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Home also there is #wiab on irc.freenode.net also Ali just a few emails up mentioned that you could start a discussion on his wave server , why not try those things first? and if there is a problem, go to Ali's wave server and simply start a problems wave add the participant @domain to the wave and everyone inclduing Ali on that server should be able to see your problem wave, and maybe attempt to answer your problem. -fleeky On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:01 PM,
Re: Wave Kickstarter
@Thomas, if you like Java and GWT, you are in luck because there is already a wave project using those (I refer, of course, to WIAB). I think having Joseph's project be done in pure JavaScript (and I do prefer writing my JS directly rather than using another language that “compiles” into JS) is a great idea because it gives those of us who do *not* prefer Java a bigger way to contribute to the wave ecosystem. —Zachary Yaro On 1 December 2013 06:47, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: I still want a web client, but it should be written in pure javascript. GWT is already pure javascript. Writing Directly rather then via Java doesn't give any real advantages in the end result - it just means you rule out code sharing between client and server, an give yourself more work in terms of writing around browser differences and having to optimize for the web. There's things other then GWT that can do that, but raw javascript just adds a tone more work to web client development. That said, I pretty much agree with everything else. I would suggest, however, you need a few people ready to work on specific goals for a specific amount. And what can be achieved is kept very clear. Unfortunately no one will understand a kickstarter talking about OT. (or, not enough to get the money I think). It all needs to be put into real terms. Multiple clients and use's with a single federate realtime protocol is still a very big deal - no one has experience of that at the moment. The hard part is getting across all the use-case's for it. Or, rather, the specific ones you plan to make possible with the kickstarter. For my part, I am happy again to contribute (for free) whenever there is a separation of the GWT client. Or even a clean client/server protocol to build a new web client from stretch. Additionally, I have an Augmented Reality specific client application I wrote, coded for Android phones. The idea was anyone could annotate anything anywhere, and share it with whoever they want. The app is working (mostly)...except it has no sever to connect too. Nothing at the moment forfills the requirement. Once theres a client/server protocol to a wave server I could very quickly put out this (imho) rather cool Android client and I think it will attack a fair bit of attention. ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 06:09, Angus Turner ad...@theangus.org wrote: That's actually a really good idea. Id be happy to help out with organising. It sounds perfect for Wave, as there's tonnes of interest but not much programming ability. I would be interested in helping out with the actual programming but my expertise is in python not Java. On Sunday, 1 December 2013, Joseph Gentle wrote: I still really want to make the wave platform we've been talking about for awhile. I just don't have any time because I need to work to eat. So I've spent the last month thinking about running a kickstarter to fund the work. Christian's email was really timely. I want arbitrary JSON documents, or arbitrary embedding like we talked about a few months ago. I want a protocol based on real P2P algorithms rather than the hacky mess we have at the moment with trees of servers connecting via an XMPP extension I want the same fundamental protocol to work server-server or server-client. The OT stuff should work like git. No single person can maintain our 500k of legacy java code. I want to write a better version with much cleaner separation of OT protocol and application specifics. I still want a web client, but it should be written in pure javascript. Messages should be cryptographically secure from snooping. The way I see it, there's fundamentally three pieces that make up wave: 1. A set of OT primitives which allow peers to generate interpret operations 2. A platform on top of (1) for exchanging operations between networked peers 3. An application on top of (2) which is trying to replace email These pieces should be separate from one another, and usable in other contexts. I have a clear idea of how we can make (1) and (2) work. The OT part we've talked about on the list and I've been slowly prototyping out here: http://github.com/josephg/tp2stuff I have a bunch of applications I want to build on top of a platform like this. For example, I want my text editor, compiler unit tests to all talk to one another so my text editor doesn't need language-specific completion or syntax checking, and so my friends can jump in and help me code. I don't know what the best way to build (3) is - but I'm more than happy to build the platform that a new kind of email could be built on top of. Maybe the current WIAB design is totally fine for that part -
Re: Incubation status
On 29 November 2013 16:05, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Building+Wave+in+a+Box https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Home also there is #wiab on irc.freenode.net Ok, trying to follow this guide to setup for client development. Stuck #1; Wheres the latest source?
Re: Incubation status
The latest source code: http://incubator.apache.org/wave/source-code.html On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 November 2013 16:05, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Building+Wave+in+a+Box https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Home also there is #wiab on irc.freenode.net Ok, trying to follow this guide to setup for client development. Stuck #1; Wheres the latest source?
Re: Incubation status
cheers :) ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 21:35, Yuri Z vega...@gmail.com wrote: The latest source code: http://incubator.apache.org/wave/source-code.html On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 November 2013 16:05, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Building+Wave+in+a+Box https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Home also there is #wiab on irc.freenode.net Ok, trying to follow this guide to setup for client development. Stuck #1; Wheres the latest source?
Re: Incubation status
ok, svn checkout; Note #1: Get an Error validating server certificate for https://svn.apache.org:443: Unknown certificate issuer. Fingerprint: bc:5f:40:92:fd:6a:49:aa:f8:b8:35:0d:ed:27:5e:a6:64:c1:7a:1b Thawte, Inc., US I accept once and proceed. (I am just documenting anything that might put people off getting started) ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 22:26, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: cheers :) ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 21:35, Yuri Z vega...@gmail.com wrote: The latest source code: http://incubator.apache.org/wave/source-code.html On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 November 2013 16:05, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Building+Wave+in+a+Box https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Home also there is #wiab on irc.freenode.net Ok, trying to follow this guide to setup for client development. Stuck #1; Wheres the latest source?
Re: Incubation status
A wiki page or a new thread might be better for this - kind of off topic... Thanks Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:34 AM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: ok, svn checkout; Note #1: Get an Error validating server certificate for https://svn.apache.org:443: Unknown certificate issuer. Fingerprint: bc:5f:40:92:fd:6a:49:aa:f8:b8:35:0d:ed:27:5e:a6:64:c1:7a:1b Thawte, Inc., US I accept once and proceed. (I am just documenting anything that might put people off getting started) ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 22:26, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: cheers :) ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 21:35, Yuri Z vega...@gmail.com wrote: The latest source code: http://incubator.apache.org/wave/source-code.html On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 November 2013 16:05, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Building+Wave+in+a+Box https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Home also there is #wiab on irc.freenode.net Ok, trying to follow this guide to setup for client development. Stuck #1; Wheres the latest source?
Re: Incubation status
Or a wave ;) On a more serious note this is something that needs doing - and something I've been meaning to do for a while. Start with a clean slate on each major OS (Mac OSX, Ubuntu, Win8 and possibly WinXP) and write down exactly what needs doing or what errors come up. If you begin to do this it'd be great to document it somewhere like the wiki.. Thanks Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: ora wave? ;) It is sort-of on-topic to the earlier discussion as to how to get more activity. But yes, it might be getting too sidetracked. ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 22:46, Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com wrote: A wiki page or a new thread might be better for this - kind of off topic... Thanks Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:34 AM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: ok, svn checkout; Note #1: Get an Error validating server certificate for https://svn.apache.org:443: Unknown certificate issuer. Fingerprint: bc:5f:40:92:fd:6a:49:aa:f8:b8:35:0d:ed:27:5e:a6:64:c1:7a:1b Thawte, Inc., US I accept once and proceed. (I am just documenting anything that might put people off getting started) ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 22:26, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: cheers :) ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 21:35, Yuri Z vega...@gmail.com wrote: The latest source code: http://incubator.apache.org/wave/source-code.html On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 November 2013 16:05, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Building+Wave+in+a+Box https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Home also there is #wiab on irc.freenode.net Ok, trying to follow this guide to setup for client development. Stuck #1; Wheres the latest source?
Re: Incubation status
No problem, at the moment its still checking out. I'll note down any other issues other then those two as I get any. (Actually still on WindowsXP here ;) ) ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 23:02, Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com wrote: Or a wave ;) On a more serious note this is something that needs doing - and something I've been meaning to do for a while. Start with a clean slate on each major OS (Mac OSX, Ubuntu, Win8 and possibly WinXP) and write down exactly what needs doing or what errors come up. If you begin to do this it'd be great to document it somewhere like the wiki.. Thanks Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: ora wave? ;) It is sort-of on-topic to the earlier discussion as to how to get more activity. But yes, it might be getting too sidetracked. ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 22:46, Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com wrote: A wiki page or a new thread might be better for this - kind of off topic... Thanks Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:34 AM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: ok, svn checkout; Note #1: Get an Error validating server certificate for https://svn.apache.org:443: Unknown certificate issuer. Fingerprint: bc:5f:40:92:fd:6a:49:aa:f8:b8:35:0d:ed:27:5e:a6:64:c1:7a:1b Thawte, Inc., US I accept once and proceed. (I am just documenting anything that might put people off getting started) ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 22:26, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: cheers :) ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 21:35, Yuri Z vega...@gmail.com wrote: The latest source code: http://incubator.apache.org/wave/source-code.html On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 November 2013 16:05, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Building+Wave+in+a+Box https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Home also there is #wiab on irc.freenode.net Ok, trying to follow this guide to setup for client development. Stuck #1; Wheres the latest source?
Re: Incubation status
It is quite a large repo :) Thanks Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 9:05 AM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: No problem, at the moment its still checking out. I'll note down any other issues other then those two as I get any. (Actually still on WindowsXP here ;) ) ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 23:02, Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com wrote: Or a wave ;) On a more serious note this is something that needs doing - and something I've been meaning to do for a while. Start with a clean slate on each major OS (Mac OSX, Ubuntu, Win8 and possibly WinXP) and write down exactly what needs doing or what errors come up. If you begin to do this it'd be great to document it somewhere like the wiki.. Thanks Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: ora wave? ;) It is sort-of on-topic to the earlier discussion as to how to get more activity. But yes, it might be getting too sidetracked. ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 22:46, Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com wrote: A wiki page or a new thread might be better for this - kind of off topic... Thanks Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:34 AM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: ok, svn checkout; Note #1: Get an Error validating server certificate for https://svn.apache.org:443: Unknown certificate issuer. Fingerprint: bc:5f:40:92:fd:6a:49:aa:f8:b8:35:0d:ed:27:5e:a6:64:c1:7a:1b Thawte, Inc., US I accept once and proceed. (I am just documenting anything that might put people off getting started) ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 22:26, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: cheers :) ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 21:35, Yuri Z vega...@gmail.com wrote: The latest source code: http://incubator.apache.org/wave/source-code.html On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 November 2013 16:05, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Building+Wave+in+a+Box https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Home also there is #wiab on irc.freenode.net Ok, trying to follow this guide to setup for client development. Stuck #1; Wheres the latest source?
Re: Setting up Wave for client development (my experience setting up on WindowsXP)
Yes. That guide is mostly a copy-paste task from the wave-protocol site. You are welcome to fix the guide with useful information for new users. Ali On 2 December 2013 00:09, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: Thought it would be useful documenting my efforts to set up Wave for development on my XP machine, to hopefully highlight a few issues that might be preventing more contributions. I am using this guide here; https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Client+Development+Setup - Stuck #1; Wheres the latest source? (Answer from mailing list ; http://incubator.apache.org/wave/source-code.html) --- Note #1: As I am checking out I get an error: Error validating server certificate for https://svn.apache.org:443https://svn.apache.org/: Unknown certificate issuer. Fingerprint: bc:5f:40:92:fd:6a:49:aa:f8:b8:35:0d:ed:27:5e:a6:64:c1:7a:1b Thawte, Inc., US I accept once and proceed. --- Once downloaded, I manually add the Environmental Variables from windows. Stuck #2: cd [THE_FULL_PATH_TO]wave-protocolis written in the guide. Only wave-protocol doesn't seem to exist. The repo checked out to just wave by default, and there's no directory called wave-protocol. Has renaming shenanigans gone on since the guide was written? ..
Re: Incubation status
Thank you. I got it. Email bridge bothttp://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-wave-dev/201306.mbox/%3ccaorbtqwyocxjk3r2qqfhqp+yq0fas_m4u0ohx7aziswm6cw...@mail.gmail.com%3E On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 1:04 AM, Ali Lown a...@lown.me.uk wrote: Christian is referring to CAORBtqwYOCXJK3r2QqFhqP+YQ0fas_m4U0oHX7AZiswm6CwPyQ By 'search the archives' - yes, you can sometimes use Google for the task. But sometimes, it is easier to simply manually look through them for a subject that describes what you are searching for. (In this case 'email bridge bot'). Ali On 1 December 2013 17:00, Frank R. renfeng...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the response. But, I don't think it can be a trivial task to find the old mails. Because all the key words I can think of are too commonly seen: wave, mail list, communication. e.g. site:mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-wave-commits/ communication - Google Search https://www.google.com/search?espv=210es_sm=119q=site%3Amail-archives.apache.org%2Fmod_mbox%2Fincubator-wave-commits%2F+communicationoq=site%3Amail-archives.apache.org%2Fmod_mbox%2Fincubator-wave-commits%2F+communicationgs_l=serp.3...5525.10115.0.10476.21.17.4.0.0.1.424.2205.8j3j4j0j1.16.0.starcuni...0...1.1.32.serp..21.0.0.wFjSHgW9WHU On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 11:30 PM, Christian Grobmeier grobme...@gmail.comwrote: On 1 Dec 2013, at 15:35, Frank R. wrote: Perhaps, we can have a temporary robot, say incubator-bot, to publish waves for a wave in a box server back to the mail list. That should be too difficult to have. Please search older mails in the archive. Somebody actually did some work in that direction On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 6:44 AM, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: christian, from my observations of the project i would have to answer no, its not working out ? pardon my passion on this subject (@mailing list) but ive kept quiet for too long. id rather get an argument started on this rather then let wave die the slow death that it is currently facing. passion is what wave needs right now, not patience. i dont think moving wave to github or getting everyone to actually use wave will magically make everything better, but i think that is a step in the right direction that Should have been taken a long time ago. theres no reason that moving discussion to a wave server reduces the open nature of the discussion, as stated previously, its trivial to make an anonymous account to grant anyone access to this discussion if it was on a wave server. also anyone can register on a wave server and participate in the discussion if the wave has been setup properly, theres even a patch somewhere for rendering wave files as html files which would make it searchable by google and everyone esle. federation should make propogating this data to multiple servers possible, using wave as the main discussion area maintains the openness , searchability, and also longevity of the discussion. On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 9:41 PM, Christian Grobmeier grobme...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 Nov 2013, at 16:40, Fleeky Flanco wrote: i really dont understand why i have to be explaining the usefullness of using wave to communicate with the people on this list. its kindof amazing. If you don't understand why we operate on a mailing list then you probably have not understood that the ASF tries to develop in an open way. All discussions must held public and must be archived for a long time. The only solution so far is mailing lists. Wave is simply not that far to provide that at the moment. Of course there is an opportunity to bring Wave to the ASF. But there are a lot of requirements to meet. If you want to develop here, you need to fulfill these requirements. We have discussed that several times. Every of the committers understood these requirements and were working against them. However Wave is not there yet. This doesn't answer the question which was initially asked: is the ASF the right place? Or more precise: can we as a project ever succeed the incubator and become an ASF project? This has nothing to do with the great technology behind Wave nor the willingness of people. It is: is there enough manpower to live the ASF way or not. Christian fleeky On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Robert Brumbelow rkbrumbe...@gmail.com wrote: Fleeky, those are fine for us, they will do little for outside exposure. I would suspect having to use wave in order to learn to use wave might be self defeating. On Fri, Nov 29, 2013 at 10:05 AM, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/ Building+Wave+in+a+Box https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Home also there is #wiab on irc.freenode.net also Ali just a few
Re: Setting up Wave for client development (my experience setting up on WindowsXP)
Id be happy too...but I dont know how ;) Logged in, but I dont think I have editing rights (or I am just missing an obvious button). -- For the ant, do I just go for the route (that is the wave directory rather then the wave-protocol one that doesn't exist now? ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 2 December 2013 01:11, Ali Lown a...@lown.me.uk wrote: Yes. That guide is mostly a copy-paste task from the wave-protocol site. You are welcome to fix the guide with useful information for new users. Ali On 2 December 2013 00:09, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: Thought it would be useful documenting my efforts to set up Wave for development on my XP machine, to hopefully highlight a few issues that might be preventing more contributions. I am using this guide here; https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Client+Development+Setup - Stuck #1; Wheres the latest source? (Answer from mailing list ; http://incubator.apache.org/wave/source-code.html) --- Note #1: As I am checking out I get an error: Error validating server certificate for https://svn.apache.org:443https://svn.apache.org/: Unknown certificate issuer. Fingerprint: bc:5f:40:92:fd:6a:49:aa:f8:b8:35:0d:ed:27:5e:a6:64:c1:7a:1b Thawte, Inc., US I accept once and proceed. --- Once downloaded, I manually add the Environmental Variables from windows. Stuck #2: cd [THE_FULL_PATH_TO]wave-protocolis written in the guide. Only wave-protocol doesn't seem to exist. The repo checked out to just wave by default, and there's no directory called wave-protocol. Has renaming shenanigans gone on since the guide was written? ..
Re: Setting up Wave for client development (my experience setting up on WindowsXP)
darkflame ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 2 December 2013 02:31, Michael MacFadden michael.macfad...@gmail.comwrote: What is your wiki username? On 12/1/13, 5:25 PM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: Id be happy too...but I dont know how ;) Logged in, but I dont think I have editing rights (or I am just missing an obvious button). -- For the ant, do I just go for the route (that is the wave directory rather then the wave-protocol one that doesn't exist now? ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 2 December 2013 01:11, Ali Lown a...@lown.me.uk wrote: Yes. That guide is mostly a copy-paste task from the wave-protocol site. You are welcome to fix the guide with useful information for new users. Ali On 2 December 2013 00:09, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: Thought it would be useful documenting my efforts to set up Wave for development on my XP machine, to hopefully highlight a few issues that might be preventing more contributions. I am using this guide here; https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Client+Development+Setup - Stuck #1; Wheres the latest source? (Answer from mailing list ; http://incubator.apache.org/wave/source-code.html) --- Note #1: As I am checking out I get an error: Error validating server certificate for https://svn.apache.org:443https://svn.apache.org/: Unknown certificate issuer. Fingerprint: bc:5f:40:92:fd:6a:49:aa:f8:b8:35:0d:ed:27:5e:a6:64:c1:7a:1b Thawte, Inc., US I accept once and proceed. --- Once downloaded, I manually add the Environmental Variables from windows. Stuck #2: cd [THE_FULL_PATH_TO]wave-protocolis written in the guide. Only wave-protocol doesn't seem to exist. The repo checked out to just wave by default, and there's no directory called wave-protocol. Has renaming shenanigans gone on since the guide was written? ..
Re: Incubation status
It'll get slim once mavenized. On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 6:06 AM, Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com wrote: It is quite a large repo :) Thanks Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 9:05 AM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: No problem, at the moment its still checking out. I'll note down any other issues other then those two as I get any. (Actually still on WindowsXP here ;) ) ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 23:02, Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com wrote: Or a wave ;) On a more serious note this is something that needs doing - and something I've been meaning to do for a while. Start with a clean slate on each major OS (Mac OSX, Ubuntu, Win8 and possibly WinXP) and write down exactly what needs doing or what errors come up. If you begin to do this it'd be great to document it somewhere like the wiki.. Thanks Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: ora wave? ;) It is sort-of on-topic to the earlier discussion as to how to get more activity. But yes, it might be getting too sidetracked. ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 22:46, Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com wrote: A wiki page or a new thread might be better for this - kind of off topic... Thanks Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:34 AM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: ok, svn checkout; Note #1: Get an Error validating server certificate for https://svn.apache.org:443: Unknown certificate issuer. Fingerprint: bc:5f:40:92:fd:6a:49:aa:f8:b8:35:0d:ed:27:5e:a6:64:c1:7a:1b Thawte, Inc., US I accept once and proceed. (I am just documenting anything that might put people off getting started) ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 22:26, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: cheers :) ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 21:35, Yuri Z vega...@gmail.com wrote: The latest source code: http://incubator.apache.org/wave/source-code.html On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 November 2013 16:05, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Building+Wave+in+a+Box https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Home also there is #wiab on irc.freenode.net Ok, trying to follow this guide to setup for client development. Stuck #1; Wheres the latest source?
Re: Incubation status
I would still be more than happy to press through the mavenization, but it seemed like people were some what against the idea until we got the release out the door historically. Thoughts? On 12/1/13, 5:37 PM, Frank R. renfeng...@gmail.com wrote: It'll get slim once mavenized. On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 6:06 AM, Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com wrote: It is quite a large repo :) Thanks Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 9:05 AM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: No problem, at the moment its still checking out. I'll note down any other issues other then those two as I get any. (Actually still on WindowsXP here ;) ) ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 23:02, Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com wrote: Or a wave ;) On a more serious note this is something that needs doing - and something I've been meaning to do for a while. Start with a clean slate on each major OS (Mac OSX, Ubuntu, Win8 and possibly WinXP) and write down exactly what needs doing or what errors come up. If you begin to do this it'd be great to document it somewhere like the wiki.. Thanks Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: ora wave? ;) It is sort-of on-topic to the earlier discussion as to how to get more activity. But yes, it might be getting too sidetracked. ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 22:46, Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com wrote: A wiki page or a new thread might be better for this - kind of off topic... Thanks Angus Turner angusisf...@gmail.com On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:34 AM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: ok, svn checkout; Note #1: Get an Error validating server certificate for https://svn.apache.org:443: Unknown certificate issuer. Fingerprint: bc:5f:40:92:fd:6a:49:aa:f8:b8:35:0d:ed:27:5e:a6:64:c1:7a:1b Thawte, Inc., US I accept once and proceed. (I am just documenting anything that might put people off getting started) ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 22:26, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: cheers :) ~~~ Thomas Bertines online review show: http://randomreviewshow.com/index.html Try it! You might even feel ambivalent about it :) On 1 December 2013 21:35, Yuri Z vega...@gmail.com wrote: The latest source code: http://incubator.apache.org/wave/source-code.html On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Thomas Wrobel darkfl...@gmail.com wrote: On 29 November 2013 16:05, Fleeky Flanco fle...@gmail.com wrote: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Building+Wave+in+a+Box https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WAVE/Home also there is #wiab on irc.freenode.net Ok, trying to follow this guide to setup for client development. Stuck #1; Wheres the latest source?
