Re: [Wicket-user] There must be some docs somewhere?
If i remember correctly, its been a while since i looked, tapestry book takes a hybrid approach. first half explains how the major parts of the framework work by giving small focused examples, while the second part of the book is a bring it all together incremental build of the tapestry virtual library example. I think this might be good to do for the wicket book as well. it is difficult to cover the wider interactions of components within an application via focused examples imho. -Igor On 11/17/05, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martijn and I are writing Wicket In Action currently. We're not usingthe gradual examples thing like e.g. Tapestry In Action has because wedon't like it that much. Maybe Martijn more than me, but I thoughtsuch a book-wide example is too far fetched to be useful. Personally, I am much more charmed about 'Programming RubyThe Pragmatic Programmer's Guide' that has a lot of small but focussedexamples. Anyway, if I had more time I would definitively want towrite a more elaborate example like a blog. The cdapp example that you can find in wicket-contrib-examples is my try of an application withHibernate CRUD and some extra's. Please check that one out too.Eelco A suite of examples that build upon each other in gradual steps, introducing concepts in a logical order in order to build an increasingly complex application in an attempt to reduce the slope of the learning curve.Ideally, the final examples should be a fairly usable application, using all the functionality available and demonstrating best practices.That's basically the structure of the ... in Action books from Manning, whgch has always worked well for me.Not trivial to generate, of course, but it seems like whoever does would be a srong candidate for authorship of WIcket in Action which is a nice resume bullet point. ---This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc.Get Certified TodayRegister for a JBoss Training Course.Free Certification Examfor All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv28alloc_id845opclick___Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] There must be some docs somewhere?
Yeah, partially you are just seeing my frustration at the framework evaluation process. I know struts backwards and forwards, but the deficiencies of that framework are all too well known. The same goes for webwork. I really want to use a component based framework, but echo/echo2 just doesn't have enough community support/active developers, and it has issues with maintaining too much state between requests. Tapestry puts too much logic in the templates and has an obnoxious syntax for the template logic. However, it is a mature product with solid docs and even a book or two written about it, not to mention the support of the jakarta universe. Even rumour I've heard about wicket screams to me that it is the framework I want, but every time I try to dig in, i find it incredibly frustrating. Generally, I'm as good at picking up new technology, especially web development technology, as any developer I've come across, so if I'm having this much trouble getting up to speed with wicket, then what about the rest of my team once they have to begin trying to write code. Simple apps from the examples are easy enough, but the complexity of the examples gets exponentially incomprehensible as the sophistication of the app increases, often making great big leaps of complexity between one exmaple and the next. We don't have the luxury of adding sophistication incrementally, so we have to be able to maximize the value of the framework almost immediately, and that is very difficult given the current state of the docs. Browsing javadocs, hoping that the name of the class that provides the functionality I'm looking for will be sufficiently obvious to jump out at me doesn't really cut it when there is a team of 12 developers being held up while we guess as to a solution. The more I explore, the more I want to use wicket, but the less I think I can actually afford to. My only option is to assume that I can come up to speed fast enough to stay one step ahead of my team, writing the relevant docs and style guidelines before they need them, but I don't have any confidence I'll be able to do so. That leaves me looking at Tapestry (or some model 2 framework, god forbid), which I find very frustrating. In short, first impressions count for a lot in the kind of analysis I'm trying to perform, and Wicket does not yet cut the mustard on that score. It reminds me of Zope, circa mid 1999. Super easy to do the simplest things, but add a little sophistication, and you'd better know exactly how everything works internally or it'll be like beating your head against a wall. Should I wind up using it (currently, I doubt it), I'll be sure to submit any docs I write back to the various projects. --sam On 11/16/05, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, the fact that is tells you to check out the wicket-stuff module is bad. We should fix that. But for the rest... it pretty basic cvs stuff to figure out what modules are in the repository. Works the same for all open source cvs projects out there. Anyway in case you are still interested in evaluating, you probably would want to check out the component reference of wicket examples first, as that gives you a nice overview of the components that Wicket delivers with the core distro. After that the telephone example is a nice one to look at some more typical application development features. Eelco On 11/16/05, Sam Gendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, the answer lies in the fact that the shell-based cvs commands in the wicket-stuff documentation are utterly broken. Never mind that there is no visible line break between the two separate cvs commands, but it also says to check out the wicket-stuff module, which is merely the source for the wicket-stuff sourceforge site. In reality, since there is no list of available modules provided anywhere, and the link to the viewcvs displays the same wicket-stuff module that the cvs command downloads, you have to checkout '.' rather than wicket-stuff, although this is entirely non-obvious without reading the maven commands listed on the same page. Note that the maven commands appear, from my limited understanding of maven, to be correct. It does check out '.', which pulls the entire wicket-stuff project, including all the modules you listed. --sam On 11/16/05, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, there's: wicket-contrib-spring-examples wicket-contrib-examples wicket-contrib-examples-hibernate3 wicket-contrib-freemarker wicket-contrib-fvalidate wicket-contrib-gmap wicket-contrib-gmap-examples wicket-contrib-groovy wicket-contrib-jasperreports wicket-contrib-navmenu wicket-contrib-palette wicket-contrib-palette-examples wicket-contrib-scriptaculous wicket-contrib-scriptaculous-examples wicket-contrib-spring wicket-contrib-tinymce wicket-contrib-tinymce-examples wicket-contrib-velocity wicketeer wicket-examples
Re: [Wicket-user] There must be some docs somewhere?
But how do we know what kind of documentation to write when we don't know what you are looking for? Component reference is there. Wiki contains several good docs on the inner workings, spring, hibernate, creating custom components. If you and other users to be don't ask for specific documentation, how should we be able to provide you with what you need/want? Just saying: there is no documentation, or not enough doesn't cut it. So, please, tell us before you either leave us, or before you know Wicket too good, what do you need, what are you looking for? Martijn On 11/17/05, Sam Gendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, partially you are just seeing my frustration at the frameworkevaluation process.I know struts backwards and forwards, but thedeficiencies of that framework are all too well known. The same goesfor webwork. I really want to use a component based framework, but echo/echo2 just doesn't have enough community support/activedevelopers, and it has issues with maintaining too much state betweenrequests.Tapestry puts too much logic in the templates and has anobnoxious syntax for the template logic. However, it is a mature product with solid docs and even a book or two written about it, notto mention the support of the jakarta universe.Even rumour I'veheard about wicket screams to me that it is the framework I want, butevery time I try to dig in, i find it incredibly frustrating. Generally, I'm as good at picking up new technology, especially webdevelopment technology, as any developer I've come across, so if I'mhaving this much trouble getting up to speed with wicket, then what about the rest of my team once they have to begin trying to writecode.Simple apps from the examples are easy enough, but thecomplexity of the examples gets exponentially incomprehensible as thesophistication of the app increases, often making great big leaps of complexity between one exmaple and the next.We don't have the luxuryof adding sophistication incrementally, so we have to be able tomaximize the value of the framework almost immediately, and that isvery difficult given the current state of the docs.Browsing javadocs, hoping that the name of the class that provides thefunctionality I'm looking for will be sufficiently obvious to jump outat me doesn't really cut it when there is a team of 12 developersbeing held up while we guess as to a solution. The more I explore, the more I want to use wicket, but the less I think I can actually affordto.My only option is to assume that I can come up to speed fastenough to stay one step ahead of my team, writing the relevant docsand style guidelines before they need them, but I don't have any confidence I'll be able to do so.That leaves me looking at Tapestry(or some model 2 framework, god forbid), which I find veryfrustrating.In short, first impressions count for a lot in the kind of analysis I'm trying to perform, andWicket does not yet cut the mustard onthat score.It reminds me of Zope, circa mid 1999.Super easy to dothe simplest things, but add a little sophistication, and you'd better know exactly how everything works internally or it'll be like beatingyour head against a wall.Should I wind up using it (currently, I doubt it), I'll be sure tosubmit any docs I write back to the various projects. --samOn 11/16/05, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, the fact that is tells you to check out the wicket-stuff module is bad. We should fix that. But for the rest... it pretty basic cvs stuff to figure out what modules are in the repository. Works the same for all open source cvs projects out there. Anyway in case you are still interested in evaluating, you probably would want to check out the component reference of wicket examples first, as that gives you a nice overview of the components that Wicket delivers with the core distro. After that the telephone example is a nice one to look at some more typical application development features. Eelco On 11/16/05, Sam Gendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, the answer lies in the fact that the shell-based cvs commands in the wicket-stuff documentation are utterly broken.Never mind that there is no visible line break between the two separate cvs commands, but it also says to check out the wicket-stuff module, which is merely the source for the wicket-stuff sourceforge site.In reality, since there is no list of available modules provided anywhere, and the link to the viewcvs displays the same wicket-stuff module that the cvs command downloads, you have to checkout '.' rather than wicket-stuff, although this is entirely non-obvious without reading the maven commands listed on the same page.Note that the maven commands appear, from my limited understanding of maven, to be correct.It does check out '.', which pulls the entire wicket-stuff project, including all the modules you listed. --samOn 11/16/05, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, there's: wicket-contrib-spring-examples
Re: [Wicket-user] There must be some docs somewhere?
Martijn Dashorst wrote: But how do we know what kind of documentation to write when we don't know what you are looking for? I think part of the problem is that the documentation is not as easily found as I for one would like. For instance, from the front page of the Wicket site, if I want to find the New User's Guide, I would have to look at the Documentation section and decide that since nothing else looks likely, I'll check out the Wiki. There, in the documentation section, I'll find a link to the (quite incomplete) guide. As a new user, I don't care that the documentation is maintained in a wiki, and I might not want to go hunting through a wiki to find what I want. So just choosing to click that link is a leap of faith. Had there been a link from the front page to the New User's Guide, I wouldn't have hesitated to go to it. Similarly, for quite some time, even though I'd looked at the wicket-examples often, I'd always gone in looking for something specific, and never even noticed that there was a good Component Reference. Once again, if this were linked to from the home page, it would be much quicker to find. Or take the whole CVS issue. We all know that Sourceforge's CVS can get very annoying. I've been able to download the wicket-contrib modules that I know about, but I've never been able to get a comprehensive list of such modules. SF always tells me that the list is not available, but I've never found the whole list. Eelco's message in this thread is the longest list I've seen, and I doubt it's complete. What I would prefer would be a Documentation page linked off the front page which contains and organizes links to all the known resources. But for now, the documentation menu lists only Vision, FAQ, Javadoc, Wiki, and Dependencies. Plus there is the getting started menu, which has Examples and Download. The FAQ is minimal (which might be a good thing.) Vision is interesting, but doesn't tell me anything about *how* to do anything. Javadoc is great once you're going, but isn't usually helpful in getting going. The examples are good, but there aren't many. One specific example of my own process is that I needed to have a class with some markup and child classes with their own embedded markup. I didn't exactly want a border or a panel. It was only because I'd been reading this list and seen the phrase markup inheritance that I knew what to look for, and even then I found it with Google and not from any of the obvious documentation sources. I eventually found my way with Google and this mailing list, but the process might have been much quicker if the New User's Guide were more complete, and if these other resources were easier to find. I'm hoping in the next several weeks to be able to contribute a little to these, but I am still too far from being an expert to be very sure of myself in any of this. -- Scott --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7628alloc_id=16845op=click ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] There must be some docs somewhere?
Or take the whole CVS issue.We all know that Sourceforge's CVS can getvery annoying.I've been able to download the wicket-contrib modules that I know about, but I've never been able to get a comprehensive listof such modules.SF always tells me that the list is not available, butI've never found the whole list. Eelco's message in this thread is the longest list I've seen, and I doubt it's complete. http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/wicket-stuff/ also eclipse has no problem listing all the modules available when checking out a project. -Igor
Re: [Wicket-user] There must be some docs somewhere?
OK, thanks for your feedback. We'll try to integrate them soon (better sooner than later). Martijn On 11/17/05, Scott Sauyet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martijn Dashorst wrote: But how do we know what kind of documentation to write when we don't know what you are looking for?I think part of the problem is that the documentation is not as easily found as I for one would like.For instance, from the front page of theWicket site, if I want to find the New User's Guide, I would have tolook at the Documentation section and decide that since nothing elselooks likely, I'll check out the Wiki.There, in the documentation section, I'll find a link to the (quite incomplete) guide.As a newuser, I don't care that the documentation is maintained in a wiki, and Imight not want to go hunting through a wiki to find what I want.So just choosing to click that link is a leap of faith.Had there been alink from the front page to the New User's Guide, I wouldn't havehesitated to go to it.Similarly, for quite some time, even though I'd looked at the wicket-examples often, I'd always gone in looking for somethingspecific, and never even noticed that there was a good ComponentReference.Once again, if this were linked to from the home page, itwould be much quicker to find. Or take the whole CVS issue.We all know that Sourceforge's CVS can getvery annoying.I've been able to download the wicket-contrib modulesthat I know about, but I've never been able to get a comprehensive list of such modules.SF always tells me that the list is not available, butI've never found the whole list. Eelco's message in this thread is thelongest list I've seen, and I doubt it's complete.What I would prefer would be a Documentation page linked off the front page which contains and organizes links to all the known resources.Butfor now, the documentation menu lists only Vision, FAQ, Javadoc, Wiki,and Dependencies.Plus there is the getting started menu, which has Examples and Download.The FAQ is minimal (which might be a goodthing.)Vision is interesting, but doesn't tell me anything about *how*to do anything.Javadoc is great once you're going, but isn't usually helpful in getting going.The examples are good, but there aren't many.One specific example of my own process is that I needed to have a classwith some markup and child classes with their own embedded markup.I didn't exactly want a border or a panel.It was only because I'd beenreading this list and seen the phrase markup inheritance that I knewwhat to look for, and even then I found it with Google and not from any of the obvious documentation sources.I eventually found my way with Google and this mailing list, but theprocess might have been much quicker if the New User's Guide were morecomplete, and if these other resources were easier to find.I'm hoping in the next several weeks to be able to contribute a little to these,but I am still too far from being an expert to be very sure of myself inany of this. -- Scott--- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc.Get Certified TodayRegister for a JBoss Training Course.Free Certification Examfor All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7628alloc_id=16845op=click___Wicket-user mailing listWicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user-- Living a wicket life...Martijn Dashorst - http://www.jroller.com/page/dashorstWicket 1.1 is out: http://wicket.sourceforge.net/wicket-1.1
Re: [Wicket-user] There must be some docs somewhere?
and dont forget irc.freenode.net #wicket there is usually someone who can answer your question there if you are looking for more of a real time conversation. -Igor
Re: [Wicket-user] There must be some docs somewhere?
Igor Vaynberg wrote: Or take the whole CVS issue. We all know that Sourceforge's CVS can get very annoying. I've been able to download the wicket-contrib modules that I know about, but I've never been able to get a comprehensive list of such modules. SF always tells me that the list is not available, but I've never found the whole list. Eelco's message in this thread is the longest list I've seen, and I doubt it's complete. http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/wicket-stuff/ also eclipse has no problem listing all the modules available when checking out a project. Thank you. But is that link available from any of the places a beginner will look for documentation? I am a pretty competent Java programmer, and I've done small amounts of OSS work using CVS against Sourceforge; in fact I knew that sourceforge had a viewcvs implementation available, and knew I could find it if I tried. But I usually work with the TortoiseCVS Windows shell extension; when I use it to try to fetch modules it reports that the list is unavailable. If that list were available from the Wicket documentation (just the link above would be fine) then someone wanting to find what's in wicket-stuff would be able to do it without searching Sourceforge's documentation. It's not that the documentaion doesn't exist. Much does, and much of it is pretty good. But it's rather difficult to find. -- Scott --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7628alloc_id=16845op=click ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] There must be some docs somewhere?
are you pointing tortoise to the right place? cvsroot sf.net/cvsroot/wicket-stuff as opposed to sf.net/cvsroot/wicket-stuff/wicket-stuff ? the latter is for the wicket-stuff website itself. eclipse, for example, has no problems listing all the modules when i point it to sf.net/cvsroot/wicket-stuff. -Igor On 11/17/05, Scott Sauyet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Igor Vaynberg wrote: Or take the whole CVS issue.We all know that Sourceforge's CVS can get very annoying.I've been able to download the wicket-contrib modules that I know about, but I've never been able to get a comprehensive list of such modules.SF always tells me that the list is not available, but I've never found the whole list. Eelco's message in this thread is the longest list I've seen, and I doubt it's complete. http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/wicket-stuff/ also eclipse has no problem listing all the modules available when checking out a project.Thank you.But is that link available from any of the places a beginnerwill look for documentation?I am a pretty competent Java programmer,and I've done small amounts of OSS work using CVS against Sourceforge; in fact I knew that sourceforge had a viewcvs implementation available,and knew I could find it if I tried.But I usually work with theTortoiseCVS Windows shell extension; when I use it to try to fetchmodules it reports that the list is unavailable.If that list were available from the Wicket documentation (just the link above would befine) then someone wanting to find what's in wicket-stuff would be ableto do it without searching Sourceforge's documentation.It's not that the documentaion doesn't exist.Much does, and much of it is pretty good.But it's rather difficult to find. -- Scott---This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc.Get Certified Today Register for a JBoss Training Course.Free Certification Examfor All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit:http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7628alloc_id=16845op=click ___Wicket-user mailing listWicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] There must be some docs somewhere?
OK, I'll try to be more helpful in my criticism... Having finally found wicket-stuff, I was able to spend some time looking at the code that addresses my needs (hibernate integration most specifically), and I'm feeling a little more comfortable. More importantly, I'm going to have to write sample/framework code and documentation for my team in order to bring them up to speed. If I do so, I will certainly be contributing them back to be integrated into the documentation in some way. Off the top of my head, here are some of the things I would like to see: A suite of examples that build upon each other in gradual steps, introducing concepts in a logical order in order to build an increasingly complex application in an attempt to reduce the slope of the learning curve. Ideally, the final examples should be a fairly usable application, using all the functionality available and demonstrating best practices. That's basically the structure of the ... in Action books from Manning, whgch has always worked well for me. Not trivial to generate, of course, but it seems like whoever does would be a srong candidate for authorship of WIcket in Action which is a nice resume bullet point. The widespread use of anonymous classes in all of the example code make life needlessly difficult for newcomers. I'm still having trouble understanding how and when some of the model objects get updated, although the wicket-stuff code started to clear some of that up. Personally, I think the use of anonymous classes should be saved until after a reasonable understanding of the functionality has been achieved. Database integration is fundamental to the vast majority of web applications, and yet it is totally unaddressed by the current documentation. I kept finding reference to tight integration with Hibernate, but could never find examples or even a description of it. That stuff should be put front and center in the core docs. It was the piece I started looking for first, in order to evaluate wicket, and I was unable to find it for days. The nice thing is that if examples use a fairly generic DAO abstraction, it should be possible to provide nice examples that aren't dependant upon any particular suite of technologies. Just describe the DAO interface and then use those them to access standard POJOs. Obviously, most folks will probably be doing a Hibernate/Spring thing, so addressing best practices for combin ing those technologies with Wicket is enormously valuable, but it should be secondary to providing generic best practices for dealing with DAO access, detachability, etc. One of the issues I'm still having is that I know nothing about Spring. Since every example I've found uses Spring inversion of control, they can be difficult to comprehend the flow. By using a generic DAO interface, it would be easier to understand the relevant wicket concepts, and I could then separate hibernate from spring and wicket. Another fundamental change - make sure ALL of the examples are listed on the website, even if they don't all have nice descriptive documents. I read through the examples on the home page (hellow world, navomatic, guestbook, and stockquote), and assumed that that was all that was available from the examples. I didn't happen to click on the link to see the wicket-examples in live action, which would have exposed all the other available examples, including the all important component reference. There is no direct link to the component reference from the wicket home page. You have to click on a link describe merely as 'live action' versions of the examples listed on the same page, in order to discover it. In my case, I didn't discover it until I installed the wicket-examples into my own container and pointed my browser at it. The descriptive documentation for wicket-stuff really needs to be improved. I hate to say it, but I'm pretty old school. I edit my java code in vi in a terminal window. I use CVS from the command line. I compile my projects with ant. I can't stand eclipse (it just eats up desktop real estate and forces me to use the mouse all the time). As such, randomly discovering that all of the instructions on the wicket-stuff website were incorrect is more than a little difficult and frustrating. Just cleaning up the instructinos and providing a decent description of what I can expect to fnd for my trouble would be REALLY handy. I still don't know what the wicket quickstart project is or does. I don't know use any of those IDEs and there is very little descriptive text. If I knew what it provided, I might motivate to install eclipse to check it out, but given the lack of usefulness of other examples and documentation, I figured it would be similar, so I never bothered to investigate that far, since it would have been a large PITA. Actually, I just watched the video and it doesn't provide any info about writing wicket code, beyond how to insert a label, which is covered by hello, world. So,
Re: [Wicket-user] There must be some docs somewhere?
Sam Gendler wrote: ... The nice thing is that if examples use a fairly generic DAO abstraction, it should be possible to provide nice examples that aren't dependant upon any particular suite of technologies. Just describe the DAO interface and then use those them to access standard POJOs. Obviously, most folks will probably be doing a Hibernate/Spring thing, so addressing best practices for combin ing those technologies with Wicket is enormously valuable, but it should be secondary to providing generic best practices for dealing with DAO access, detachability, etc. ... 1. hibernate/spring integration (separate from wicket) 2. hibernate/spring/wicket best practices Sam -- all of what you propose sounds excellent. [The tradional example has been the pet shop, but nowadays, I think a blogging system is a nice worked example for a web framework.] I haven't had a chance to look at Igor, et al's new Spring integration, but here are a few bits of advice from my experiments with Wicket/Spring/Hibernate: - If you're using Spring to manage your DAOs, you don't need to look at wicket-contrib-hibernate. - Spring and Hiberate already integrate together really easily. Take a look at org.springframework.orm.hibernate3.LocalSessionFactoryBean. They should have plenty of examples, but if you need a more complete spring.xml, let me know and I'll send you one. - To map Hibernate sessions to requests, Spring AOP's OpenSessionInViewInterceptor makes everything automatic. Here's what I use: !-- The openSessionInViewInterceptor is for Wicket requests; the HibernateInterceptor is for business objects -- bean name=openSessionInViewInterceptor class=org.springframework.orm.hibernate3.support.OpenSessionInViewInterceptor property name=sessionFactoryref bean=sessionFactory//property property name=flushModeNamevalueFLUSH_AUTO/value/property /bean - For an example of Transaction Templates, take a look at http://blog.exis.com/colin/archives/2004/07/31/concise-transaction-definitions-spring-11/ - If you can get to the DAOs from your pages or models and your Sessions are managed correctly, using them with Wicket is very easy. - I'm not yet sure what the best practice for detatching is. If you have relatively small objects and plety of RAM, you could use hibernate's lock() function to attach to the current Hibernate session. Most likely, though, having your models keep the id of the object and loading them from the DAO maks the most sense. Good luck, Dan --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7628alloc_id=16845op=click ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] There must be some docs somewhere?
irt spring+hibernate+wicket: Dan is absolutely correct when he says that wicket should never touch hibernate directly. all the hibernate-related logic should stay inside spring and be exposed directly through a dao object or through a service facade. i think wicket-contrib-data and wicket-contrib-data-hibernate should be taken out of cvs as they do not display good programming practices in general. i thought Phil was going to do that, but i guess he never got around to it, are you reading Phil? take a look at wicket-phonebook in wicket-stuff, its an extremely simple crud application that uses the above technologies. it also has excellent javadoc thanks to Gwyn. irt general dao: if you are talking about pulling out data from the database to display, such dao already exists and is documented. look up: IDataProvider in wicket-extensions. it is used by the DataView component which is also in the extensions. to see a demo of these look in wicket-phonebook or wicket-examples - repeaters. the repeater examples build upon each other from a simple looping view to a fully database driven datatable component. irt spring integration: spring integration doesn't come easy with a framework like wicket. unlike servlets which are fairly static singletons wicket applications consist of a lot of volatile objects with varying life cycles. this makes keeping dependencies difficult especially because objects are often serialized. there are basically two approaches: simpler approach is to keep all your dependencies in wicket's singleton Application object and let everything else look up dependencies from there, the other approach is more sophisticated - it involves creating proxies for dependencies that can be serialized and retain enough information to be able to look up the dependency when they are deserialized (possibly in another vm). i recently wrote up an article on this in the wiki that describes the two ways: http://www.wicket-wiki.org.uk/wiki/index.php/Spring i haven't had much time to spend on it so its rough around the edges. people should feel free to fix it, it is a wiki after all. irt detaching: the whole idea of detaching objects is to reduce session state. if you have a pretty big object that you are using as a model, why keep it in session when you can only keep the id and load the object when it is fist accessed. if you are using the object as a model for the form, then you don't need to reattach/lock it, just use hibernate merge instead of saveorupdate. see wicket-phonebook for both use cases. irt trail tutorial: if someone can come up with a scope/spec for a small wicket+hibernate+spring application / trail breakdown i can put one together as long as other people promise to write documentation, some javadoc, and dress up the html templates. -Igor On 11/17/05, Dan Gould [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sam Gendler wrote:... The nice thing is that if examples use a fairly generic DAO abstraction, it should be possible to provide nice examples that aren't dependant upon any particular suite of technologies.Just describe the DAO interface and then use those them to access standard POJOs.Obviously, most folks will probably be doing a Hibernate/Spring thing, so addressing best practices for combin ing those technologies with Wicket is enormously valuable, but it should be secondary to providing generic best practices for dealing with DAO access, detachability, etc 1. hibernate/spring integration (separate from wicket) 2. hibernate/spring/wicket best practices Sam -- all of what you propose sounds excellent.[The tradional example has been the pet shop, but nowadays, I think ablogging system is a nice worked example for a web framework.]I haven't had a chance to look at Igor, et al's new Spring integration, but here are a few bits of advice from my experiments withWicket/Spring/Hibernate:- If you're using Spring to manage your DAOs, you don't need to look atwicket-contrib-hibernate.- Spring and Hiberate already integrate together really easily.Take a look at org.springframework.orm.hibernate3.LocalSessionFactoryBean.Theyshould have plenty of examples, but if you need a more completespring.xml, let me know and I'll send you one.- To map Hibernate sessions to requests, Spring AOP's OpenSessionInViewInterceptor makes everything automatic.Here's what Iuse: !-- The openSessionInViewInterceptor is for Wicket requests; the HibernateInterceptoris for business objects --bean name=openSessionInViewInterceptor class=org.springframework.orm.hibernate3.support.OpenSessionInViewInterceptor property name=sessionFactoryref bean=sessionFactory//propertyproperty name=flushModeNamevalueFLUSH_AUTO/value/property/bean- For an example of Transaction Templates, take a look at http://blog.exis.com/colin/archives/2004/07/31/concise-transaction-definitions-spring-11/- If you can get to the DAOs from your pages or models and your Sessionsare managed correctly, using them with Wicket is very easy. - I'm not yet sure what the best
Re: [Wicket-user] There must be some docs somewhere?
Martijn and I are writing Wicket In Action currently. We're not using the gradual examples thing like e.g. Tapestry In Action has because we don't like it that much. Maybe Martijn more than me, but I thought such a book-wide example is too far fetched to be useful. Personally, I am much more charmed about 'Programming Ruby The Pragmatic Programmer's Guide' that has a lot of small but focussed examples. Anyway, if I had more time I would definitively want to write a more elaborate example like a blog. The cdapp example that you can find in wicket-contrib-examples is my try of an application with Hibernate CRUD and some extra's. Please check that one out too. Eelco A suite of examples that build upon each other in gradual steps, introducing concepts in a logical order in order to build an increasingly complex application in an attempt to reduce the slope of the learning curve. Ideally, the final examples should be a fairly usable application, using all the functionality available and demonstrating best practices. That's basically the structure of the ... in Action books from Manning, whgch has always worked well for me. Not trivial to generate, of course, but it seems like whoever does would be a srong candidate for authorship of WIcket in Action which is a nice resume bullet point. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv28alloc_id845op=click ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] There must be some docs somewhere?
Oh, and one of the by products we plan for us writing Wicket In Action is a useable reference manual. Something that doesn't conflict our interests with Manning of course, but that serves as a good point of finding how to do things in Wicket. Re looking for support: I am currently thinking setting up a support company for Wicket. I would need it for several things, giving official Wicket support being one of them. If demand is large enough, such a company can be fact in a few months from now. Eelco On 11/17/05, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martijn and I are writing Wicket In Action currently. We're not using the gradual examples thing like e.g. Tapestry In Action has because we don't like it that much. Maybe Martijn more than me, but I thought such a book-wide example is too far fetched to be useful. Personally, I am much more charmed about 'Programming Ruby The Pragmatic Programmer's Guide' that has a lot of small but focussed examples. Anyway, if I had more time I would definitively want to write a more elaborate example like a blog. The cdapp example that you can find in wicket-contrib-examples is my try of an application with Hibernate CRUD and some extra's. Please check that one out too. Eelco A suite of examples that build upon each other in gradual steps, introducing concepts in a logical order in order to build an increasingly complex application in an attempt to reduce the slope of the learning curve. Ideally, the final examples should be a fairly usable application, using all the functionality available and demonstrating best practices. That's basically the structure of the ... in Action books from Manning, whgch has always worked well for me. Not trivial to generate, of course, but it seems like whoever does would be a srong candidate for authorship of WIcket in Action which is a nice resume bullet point. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv28alloc_id845op=click ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
[Wicket-user] There must be some docs somewhere?
OK, so I've been all over the wicket sourceforge site, and I must be missing something. Where is the documentation? There are some fairly basic examples that don't go into much detail, the new user guide in the wiki which is incomplete whenever it gets interesting. The wicket stuff section lists a hibernate tool, but doesn't provide a link to anything. I see many references to how great wicket is with hibernate, but I've never seen a doc that describes how someone would actually use wicket with hibernate. Perhaps most importantly, I've never found a simple description of the components that are available (or how to implement new ones), let alone how to use them. Do I really have to extract all of this from the javadocs and source code? I'm trying to evaluate frameworks for a large development project, and from all the hype, wicket seems to be a nice solution, but it is basically not evaluatable, since, apparently, the only way to learn anything about it is to get deep enough into a development project to overcome the learning curve and total lack of documentation. Am I missing something here? --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv28alloc_id845op=click ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] There must be some docs somewhere?
#: Sam Gendler changed the world a bit at a time by saying on 11/16/2005 5:31 PM :# OK, so I've been all over the wicket sourceforge site, and I must be missing something. Where is the documentation? There are some fairly basic examples that don't go into much detail, the new user guide in the wiki which is incomplete whenever it gets interesting. The wicket stuff section lists a hibernate tool, but doesn't provide a link to anything. I see many references to how great wicket is with hibernate, but I've never seen a doc that describes how someone would actually use wicket with hibernate. Perhaps most importantly, I've never found a simple description of the components that are available (or how to implement new ones), let alone how to use them. Do I really have to extract all of this from the javadocs and source code? I'm trying to evaluate frameworks for a large development project, and from all the hype, wicket seems to be a nice solution, but it is basically not evaluatable, since, apparently, the only way to learn anything about it is to get deep enough into a development project to overcome the learning curve and total lack of documentation. Am I missing something here? With a few corrections (you can see the components at work in wicket-examples, there are a few interesting entries on the wiki and also on the mailing list), I am facing exactly the same problem. And even worse, I don't think I have the time to start a prototype to see how the things are coming along. ./alex -- .w( the_mindstorm )p. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7628alloc_id=16845op=click ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] There must be some docs somewhere?
hi Sam, Re components: check out the component reference in the wicket-examples project. it is farily complete and shows components in isolation so you can play around with them. Re hibernate integration: check out the wicket-phonebook project from wicket-stuff cvs. it is a simple example of a wicket/spring/hibernate project. wicket-phonebook has great javadoc that will explain what everything is. Re creating components: this is the strength of wicket. you just extend one of the base classes such as Component or WebMarkupContainer or extend any other component and away you go. checkout the code that drives components in the component reference its so simple it speaks for itself. Re documentation: yes this is something we do not have a lot of, we are working on it. what we do have right now is great javadoc. i got started just by looking at the examples and the code that drives them. wicket felt so natural i just picked it up ( but i did come from a strong tapestry background ). imho the best way to evaluate a framwork is to try and build a small project with it so you get the feel for it. this list is a great place to get support. if you have any questions feel free to email them to the list. btw, wicket-examples and wicket-phonebook both have jetty-launcher in a class called Start, so if you use eclise just right click and do debug as java app, that will start up jetty and you are ready to go as opposed to package/redeploy cycle. -Igor On 11/16/05, Sam Gendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, so I've been all over the wicket sourceforge site, and I must bemissing something.Where is the documentation?There are some fairlybasic examples that don't go into much detail, the new user guide inthe wiki which is incomplete whenever it gets interesting.The wicket stuff section lists a hibernate tool, but doesn't provide a link toanything. I see many references to how great wicket is with hibernate,but I've never seen a doc that describes how someone would actuallyuse wicket with hibernate.Perhaps most importantly, I've never found a simple description of the components that are available (or how toimplement new ones), let alone how to use them.Do I really have toextract all of this from the javadocs and source code?I'm trying to evaluate frameworks for a large development project, and from all the hype, wicket seems to be a nice solution, but it isbasically not evaluatable, since, apparently, the only way to learnanything about it is to get deep enough into a development project toovercome the learning curve and total lack of documentation. Am I missing something here?---This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc.Get Certified TodayRegister for a JBoss Training Course.Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit:http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv28alloc_id845opclick___ Wicket-user mailing listWicket-user@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
[Wicket-user] There must be some docs somewhere?
Hi all, I have been teaching a course on the subject of web applications development using Wicket and dmLite frameworks http://drdb.fsa.ulaval.ca/urls/ The course is pretty practical. I have developed 10 spirals (actually 9; I will finish the last spiral the next week) that cover the basics of Wicket from some trivial pages to relatively more complex pages composed of reusable panel components. The focus is on reusability even within the same application. For each spiral there is a short PDF explanation document and a source code zip file. You can also see the spiral application in action at my server. I used to teach the same course using Struts. With Wicket it is much easier for me, as a professor, to explain essential concepts, and it is much easier for students to pickup those concepts. The pedagogical beauty of Wicket is that it is all Java, all POJOs, and a professor can easily use the most important OO concepts such as inheritance and decomposition. For a professor, it is a pain to work with databases in a non-database course (installation, schema generation, test data loading, before it is even possible to look at a student web application). That is the reason that I have developed a small pedagogical framework for both domain model and model persistence. Home: http://drdb.fsa.ulaval.ca/dmLite/ Javadoc: http://drdb.fsa.ulaval.ca/dmLite/doc/javadoc/index.html Users Guide: http://drdb.fsa.ulaval.ca/dmLite/doc/usersGuide.pdf In this way I can focus on Wicket essentials and students can download a spiral, unzip it, import into Eclipse and execute it within Eclipse using the Start class (Jetty). No installation, no database schema creation, no test data loading. In the same way I can easily see and grade a student web application. Perhaps, at least some Wicket examples may be redeveloped using dmLite. I hope that the course material on my web site may help other people start using Wicket faster. I do not pretend that Wicket is completely covered in my course material. I strongly believe in the spiral approach to learning, teaching, developing and managing software and software development process. If people think that this is helpful, I may decide to continue developing more advanced spirals. The important point for me and my students is to become comfortable with Wicket before dealing with important issues of professional web applications such as the use of real databases and the use of other professional frameworks such as Spring and Hibernate. Cheers, Dzenan Ridjanovic --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7628alloc_id=16845op=click ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] There must be some docs somewhere?
Thx! i have looked that some pdf's and they look really nice! Good to know that wicket is used for teaching stuff! johan On 11/16/05, Dzenan Ridjanovic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all,I have been teaching a course on the subject of web applicationsdevelopment using Wicket and dmLite frameworkshttp://drdb.fsa.ulaval.ca/urls/ The course is pretty practical. I have developed 10 spirals (actually 9;I will finish the last spiral the next week) that cover the basics ofWicket from some trivial pages to relatively more complex pages composed of reusable panel components. The focus is on reusability even withinthe same application. For each spiral there is a short PDF explanationdocument and a source code zip file. You can also see the spiralapplication in action at my server. I used to teach the same course using Struts. With Wicket it is mucheasier for me, as a professor, to explain essential concepts, and it ismuch easier for students to pickup those concepts. The pedagogical beauty of Wicket is that it is all Java, all POJOs, and a professor caneasily use the most important OO concepts such as inheritance anddecomposition.For a professor, it is a pain to work with databases in a non-database course (installation, schema generation, test data loading, before it iseven possible to look at a student web application). That is the reasonthat I have developed a small pedagogical framework for both domain model and model persistence.Home:http://drdb.fsa.ulaval.ca/dmLite/Javadoc:http://drdb.fsa.ulaval.ca/dmLite/doc/javadoc/index.html Users Guide:http://drdb.fsa.ulaval.ca/dmLite/doc/usersGuide.pdfIn this way I can focus on Wicket essentials and students can download a spiral, unzip it, import into Eclipse and execute it within Eclipseusing the Start class (Jetty). No installation, no database schemacreation, no test data loading. In the same way I can easily see andgrade a student web application. Perhaps, at least some Wicket examples may be redeveloped using dmLite.I hope that the course material on my web site may help other peoplestart using Wicket faster. I do not pretend that Wicket is completelycovered in my course material. I strongly believe in the spiral approach to learning, teaching, developing and managing software and softwaredevelopment process. If people think that this is helpful, I may decideto continue developing more advanced spirals. The important point for me and my students is to become comfortable with Wicket before dealing withimportant issues of professional web applications such as the use ofreal databases and the use of other professional frameworks such as Spring and Hibernate.Cheers,Dzenan Ridjanovic---This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc.Get Certified TodayRegister for a JBoss Training Course.Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit:http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7628alloc_id=16845op=click ___Wicket-user mailing listWicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] There must be some docs somewhere?
Re hibernate integration: check out the wicket-phonebook project from wicket-stuff cvs. it is a simple example of a wicket/spring/hibernate project. wicket-phonebook has great javadoc that will explain what everything is. So I checked out wicket-stuff, and all it contains are some xdocs directories. Not a single line of source code to be seen. What am I missing here? --sam --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv28alloc_id845op=click ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] There must be some docs somewhere?
Wicket-examples, wicket-phonebook don't seem to exist, and wicket-stuff is apparently nothing but the source code to the sourceforge web page about wicket-stuff. What am I missing here? --sam On 11/16/05, Igor Vaynberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi Sam, Re components: check out the component reference in the wicket-examples project. it is farily complete and shows components in isolation so you can play around with them. Re hibernate integration: check out the wicket-phonebook project from wicket-stuff cvs. it is a simple example of a wicket/spring/hibernate project. wicket-phonebook has great javadoc that will explain what everything is. Re creating components: this is the strength of wicket. you just extend one of the base classes such as Component or WebMarkupContainer or extend any other component and away you go. checkout the code that drives components in the component reference its so simple it speaks for itself. Re documentation: yes this is something we do not have a lot of, we are working on it. what we do have right now is great javadoc. i got started just by looking at the examples and the code that drives them. wicket felt so natural i just picked it up ( but i did come from a strong tapestry background ). imho the best way to evaluate a framwork is to try and build a small project with it so you get the feel for it. this list is a great place to get support. if you have any questions feel free to email them to the list. btw, wicket-examples and wicket-phonebook both have jetty-launcher in a class called Start, so if you use eclise just right click and do debug as java app, that will start up jetty and you are ready to go as opposed to package/redeploy cycle. -Igor On 11/16/05, Sam Gendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, so I've been all over the wicket sourceforge site, and I must be missing something. Where is the documentation? There are some fairly basic examples that don't go into much detail, the new user guide in the wiki which is incomplete whenever it gets interesting. The wicket stuff section lists a hibernate tool, but doesn't provide a link to anything. I see many references to how great wicket is with hibernate, but I've never seen a doc that describes how someone would actually use wicket with hibernate. Perhaps most importantly, I've never found a simple description of the components that are available (or how to implement new ones), let alone how to use them. Do I really have to extract all of this from the javadocs and source code? I'm trying to evaluate frameworks for a large development project, and from all the hype, wicket seems to be a nice solution, but it is basically not evaluatable, since, apparently, the only way to learn anything about it is to get deep enough into a development project to overcome the learning curve and total lack of documentation. Am I missing something here? --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv28alloc_id845opclick ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit: http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv28alloc_id845op=click ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] There must be some docs somewhere?
Yeah, the answer lies in the fact that the shell-based cvs commands in the wicket-stuff documentation are utterly broken. Never mind that there is no visible line break between the two separate cvs commands, but it also says to check out the wicket-stuff module, which is merely the source for the wicket-stuff sourceforge site. In reality, since there is no list of available modules provided anywhere, and the link to the viewcvs displays the same wicket-stuff module that the cvs command downloads, you have to checkout '.' rather than wicket-stuff, although this is entirely non-obvious without reading the maven commands listed on the same page. Note that the maven commands appear, from my limited understanding of maven, to be correct. It does check out '.', which pulls the entire wicket-stuff project, including all the modules you listed. --sam On 11/16/05, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, there's: wicket-contrib-spring-examples wicket-contrib-examples wicket-contrib-examples-hibernate3 wicket-contrib-freemarker wicket-contrib-fvalidate wicket-contrib-gmap wicket-contrib-gmap-examples wicket-contrib-groovy wicket-contrib-jasperreports wicket-contrib-navmenu wicket-contrib-palette wicket-contrib-palette-examples wicket-contrib-scriptaculous wicket-contrib-scriptaculous-examples wicket-contrib-spring wicket-contrib-tinymce wicket-contrib-tinymce-examples wicket-contrib-velocity wicketeer wicket-examples wicket-extensions wicket-phonebook to name a few. Eelco On 11/16/05, Sam Gendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wicket-examples, wicket-phonebook don't seem to exist, and wicket-stuff is apparently nothing but the source code to the sourceforge web page about wicket-stuff. What am I missing here? --sam On 11/16/05, Igor Vaynberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi Sam, Re components: check out the component reference in the wicket-examples project. it is farily complete and shows components in isolation so you can play around with them. Re hibernate integration: check out the wicket-phonebook project from wicket-stuff cvs. it is a simple example of a wicket/spring/hibernate project. wicket-phonebook has great javadoc that will explain what everything is. Re creating components: this is the strength of wicket. you just extend one of the base classes such as Component or WebMarkupContainer or extend any other component and away you go. checkout the code that drives components in the component reference its so simple it speaks for itself. Re documentation: yes this is something we do not have a lot of, we are working on it. what we do have right now is great javadoc. i got started just by looking at the examples and the code that drives them. wicket felt so natural i just picked it up ( but i did come from a strong tapestry background ). imho the best way to evaluate a framwork is to try and build a small project with it so you get the feel for it. this list is a great place to get support. if you have any questions feel free to email them to the list. btw, wicket-examples and wicket-phonebook both have jetty-launcher in a class called Start, so if you use eclise just right click and do debug as java app, that will start up jetty and you are ready to go as opposed to package/redeploy cycle. -Igor On 11/16/05, Sam Gendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, so I've been all over the wicket sourceforge site, and I must be missing something. Where is the documentation? There are some fairly basic examples that don't go into much detail, the new user guide in the wiki which is incomplete whenever it gets interesting. The wicket stuff section lists a hibernate tool, but doesn't provide a link to anything. I see many references to how great wicket is with hibernate, but I've never seen a doc that describes how someone would actually use wicket with hibernate. Perhaps most importantly, I've never found a simple description of the components that are available (or how to implement new ones), let alone how to use them. Do I really have to extract all of this from the javadocs and source code? I'm trying to evaluate frameworks for a large development project, and from all the hype, wicket seems to be a nice solution, but it is basically not evaluatable, since, apparently, the only way to learn anything about it is to get deep enough into a development project to overcome the learning curve and total lack of documentation. Am I missing something here? --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the JBoss Inc. Get Certified Today Register for a JBoss Training Course. Free Certification Exam for All Training Attendees Through End of 2005. For more info visit:
Re: [Wicket-user] There must be some docs somewhere?
Yeah, the fact that is tells you to check out the wicket-stuff module is bad. We should fix that. But for the rest... it pretty basic cvs stuff to figure out what modules are in the repository. Works the same for all open source cvs projects out there. Anyway in case you are still interested in evaluating, you probably would want to check out the component reference of wicket examples first, as that gives you a nice overview of the components that Wicket delivers with the core distro. After that the telephone example is a nice one to look at some more typical application development features. Eelco On 11/16/05, Sam Gendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, the answer lies in the fact that the shell-based cvs commands in the wicket-stuff documentation are utterly broken. Never mind that there is no visible line break between the two separate cvs commands, but it also says to check out the wicket-stuff module, which is merely the source for the wicket-stuff sourceforge site. In reality, since there is no list of available modules provided anywhere, and the link to the viewcvs displays the same wicket-stuff module that the cvs command downloads, you have to checkout '.' rather than wicket-stuff, although this is entirely non-obvious without reading the maven commands listed on the same page. Note that the maven commands appear, from my limited understanding of maven, to be correct. It does check out '.', which pulls the entire wicket-stuff project, including all the modules you listed. --sam On 11/16/05, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, there's: wicket-contrib-spring-examples wicket-contrib-examples wicket-contrib-examples-hibernate3 wicket-contrib-freemarker wicket-contrib-fvalidate wicket-contrib-gmap wicket-contrib-gmap-examples wicket-contrib-groovy wicket-contrib-jasperreports wicket-contrib-navmenu wicket-contrib-palette wicket-contrib-palette-examples wicket-contrib-scriptaculous wicket-contrib-scriptaculous-examples wicket-contrib-spring wicket-contrib-tinymce wicket-contrib-tinymce-examples wicket-contrib-velocity wicketeer wicket-examples wicket-extensions wicket-phonebook to name a few. Eelco On 11/16/05, Sam Gendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wicket-examples, wicket-phonebook don't seem to exist, and wicket-stuff is apparently nothing but the source code to the sourceforge web page about wicket-stuff. What am I missing here? --sam On 11/16/05, Igor Vaynberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi Sam, Re components: check out the component reference in the wicket-examples project. it is farily complete and shows components in isolation so you can play around with them. Re hibernate integration: check out the wicket-phonebook project from wicket-stuff cvs. it is a simple example of a wicket/spring/hibernate project. wicket-phonebook has great javadoc that will explain what everything is. Re creating components: this is the strength of wicket. you just extend one of the base classes such as Component or WebMarkupContainer or extend any other component and away you go. checkout the code that drives components in the component reference its so simple it speaks for itself. Re documentation: yes this is something we do not have a lot of, we are working on it. what we do have right now is great javadoc. i got started just by looking at the examples and the code that drives them. wicket felt so natural i just picked it up ( but i did come from a strong tapestry background ). imho the best way to evaluate a framwork is to try and build a small project with it so you get the feel for it. this list is a great place to get support. if you have any questions feel free to email them to the list. btw, wicket-examples and wicket-phonebook both have jetty-launcher in a class called Start, so if you use eclise just right click and do debug as java app, that will start up jetty and you are ready to go as opposed to package/redeploy cycle. -Igor On 11/16/05, Sam Gendler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, so I've been all over the wicket sourceforge site, and I must be missing something. Where is the documentation? There are some fairly basic examples that don't go into much detail, the new user guide in the wiki which is incomplete whenever it gets interesting. The wicket stuff section lists a hibernate tool, but doesn't provide a link to anything. I see many references to how great wicket is with hibernate, but I've never seen a doc that describes how someone would actually use wicket with hibernate. Perhaps most importantly, I've never found a simple description of the components that are available (or how to implement new ones), let alone how to use
