[Wikimania-l] Re: Excursion to Auschwitz?

[Gnangarra]

gt;>>>>> thought had been given to an organised excursion of Wikimedians to
>>>>>>> Auschwitz during Wikimania as Krakow seems reasonably close?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know this is a sensitive topic and likely to be deeply distressing
>>>>>>> but I'm sure many of us would find it worthwhile.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Harry
>>>>>>> ___
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *User:Nadzik <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Nadzik>*
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>>>>>>
>>>>> ___
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[Wikimania-l] Re: Excursion to Auschwitz?

[Gnangarra]

Hi Harry

I know the COT's are always looking at options and excursions around
Wikimania but this is one place where it would be better to make your
own arrangements as you said it has a terrible history. This is one
place that's best left to the individual,  I'm not even sure I would
want to share experiencing that place with other people I dont know.
On a personal level. I'd hate to have to deal with a person who took
the tour not knowing the horrors of the place and having to address
that as a T person. As all these organised side events also need
critical numbers and some one two organisor best to focus on local
with minimal issues from attending

On Sat, 9 Dec 2023 at 05:56, Harry Mitchell  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm sure the organisers have a lot on their plate right now so I don't want 
> to add any unnecessary pressure, I was just wondering if any thought had been 
> given to an organised excursion of Wikimedians to Auschwitz during Wikimania 
> as Krakow seems reasonably close?
>
> I know this is a sensitive topic and likely to be deeply distressing but I'm 
> sure many of us would find it worthwhile.
>
> Best,
> Harry
> ___
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[Wikimania-l] Re: Selection criteria *(WAS: Planning your trip to Singapore for Wikimania 2023)

[Gnangarra]

Hi  Zeljko

I did submit a proposal to start this discussion at Wikimania, it has been
merged into the Future of Wikimania discussion.  The list of scholars will
be going up very soon. At the start of the process I made some assumptions
with regards to being able to use the community created scholarship
software, which had been switched off. That left me with some opportunities
and some headaches in finding new software, I went with the WMF hosted
version of Limesurvey, while I was able to make it work it isnt designed
for this.  The criteria was something I wrote from scratch, it was
reviewed. It focused on people who were collaborating, people who were
engaged with projects other than just Wikipedia, and new contributors.

The scoring of applications shifted from between 1 and 10, to between -5
and 29 with each reviewer giving their own score which I then averaged out
providing me with an effective scoring range that meant everyone was unique
and there was no need to guess who got the better 10.  I cant release the
scoring because this was done inconfidence both for the reviewers, and the
individuals its more important to me to keep that confidence.  I consider
it important to ensure that team who did the scoring are free to assess
applications even of those of people they know fairly averaging the final
scores addresses any bias, during that I check for anomalies.  I will pass
this across to the 2024 team to consider but it should be something
that's agreed to and known as a condition of applying before doing so.  I
can see significant downsides to this, the biggest being that applicants
who get scored low will take it as rejection of their efforts, and
reviewers will be reluctant to score some people low while eager to score
others high if it provides them with an opportunity to gain something.
Knowing all of this was it perfect, let's wait and see Wikimania goes what
impacts the scholars have but I stand by the outcomes knowing everyone was
treated equally in the process.  This year its voluntary reporting post
wikimania for scholars in exchange for them being event volunteers, so we
will be engaging with one of them.

As for changes in a post covid, climate impact world we are working on it
ESEAP has been since 2020 first in choosing Bangkok,  then in selecting
Singapore rather than where we had teams ready to go in Bali, and Perth.
For Wikimania itself the COT has included live streaming, and zoom like
connections with each room, hence why we need a lot of extra volunteers.
The steering committee has spoken about dual city hosts to lower the miles
travelled first its best if we get the hybrid elements working effectively
and find ways to connect people that are as meaningful as talking in person
in the same place, while experiencing Wikimania that is very hard to
replicate online even with 3 years of nothing but that.

I happy to talk for hours about the whole process and tear it apart to make
it better lets do this when we have more knowledge of its impact and bring
in the team for 2024 so that the outcomes aren't just lost in yet another
report.

See everyone in Singapore, please join the "Future of Wikimania" talk,
when you see me around Suntec and Singapore please tap me on the shoulder.
I'm happy to talk more about any topic.

Cheers
Gnangarra





On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 at 22:35, Željko Blaće  wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 27, 2023 at 3:54 PM effe iets anders 
> wrote:
>
>> Generally a review of criteria seems like a fair idea - but I would
>> recommend doing that after the conference (ideally after the evaluation
>> results come back). That way, you have the benefit of knowing what people
>> have been missing, and what skills /experience/quality we might have added
>> to make it a better conference.
>>
>
> I think criteria and focuses have been discussed *(from what I see on
> Meta) many times and that did not help increase satisfaction with the
> process of selection based on that criteria as it is intransparent,
> compared to almost everything else of onWiki work.
>
>
>> Zeljko: I can't look in your head, but I also read your original response
>> as passive aggressive and it looked like you were using the scholarship as
>> a way to score points in a conversation with someone who you had a
>> disagreement with. I'm glad if this was not your intention, but I thought
>> you might want to know that is how it came across to me.
>>
>
> Indeed you can not, but you sure made a strong effort ;-)
> Anyway I am not sure who you refer to now exactly. I do not have strong
> disagreement with Mina and/or Gnangarra, as I do not think I met either
> personally, but I do see systematic issues and I point to them in arguments
> presented by both. Maybe I should have been more diplomatic in phrasing
> that, but my focus is elsewhere.
>
> Gnangarra: What would be a helpful way/mom

[Wikimania-l] Re: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Wikimania 2024 will be hosted in …

[Gnangarra]

t;https://diff.wikimedia.org/2023/03/20/announcing-the-host-of-wikimania-in-2024/>
>>>> [3].
>>>>
>>>> Bringing our movement’s beloved event to life is not simple and we took
>>>> many criteria into consideration. We were grateful for the expressions
>>>> of interest
>>>> <https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimania_2024_expressions_of_interest>
>>>> received for hosting Wikimania in 2024, 2025, and beyond [4]. Announcing
>>>> host cities this far in advance is a new approach
>>>> <https://diff.wikimedia.org/2022/10/27/wikimania-welcoming-expressions-of-interest-for-2024/>
>>>> to organizing Wikimania we are exploring [5]. In addition to the support we
>>>> provide as the stewards of Wikimania
>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_Committee>, together with
>>>> the Foundation’s Movement Communications team
>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Movement_Communications>,
>>>> we see great value in facilitating more time for organizers so they can
>>>> learn from each other in practice and strengthen their capacity [6], [7].
>>>> We hope to announce the hosts of Wikimania in 2025 and 2026 in the coming
>>>> months or at Wikimania 2023 in Singapore.
>>>>
>>>> Once again, wholehearted congratulations to the 2024 Wikimania team. We
>>>> know you will do an excellent job welcoming our global family to your
>>>> timeless city. And to our global family, we hope that you are as excited as
>>>> we are returning to the vibrant CEE region after 14 years. Looking forward
>>>> to collaborating with you all on wiki and in person.
>>>>
>>>> My best wishes for all,
>>>>
>>>> Phoebe (Wikimania Steering Committee)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On behalf of the Wikimania Steering Committee and the Wikimedia
>>>> Foundation Movement Communications team
>>>> Translations available on Diff
>>>>
>>>> [1] Kraków is a hybrid gem of history and modernity:
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krak%C3%B3w
>>>>
>>>> [2] Kraków expression of interest:
>>>> https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2024:Expressions_of_Interest/Central_Eastern_Europe,_Poland,_Cracow
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [3] Read more about this announcement on Diff:
>>>> https://diff.wikimedia.org/2023/03/20/announcing-the-host-of-wikimania-in-2024/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [4] 11 expressions of interest received:
>>>> https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimania_2024_expressions_of_interest
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [5] The call for hosting Wikimania in 2024, 2025 and beyond:
>>>> https://diff.wikimedia.org/2022/10/27/wikimania-welcoming-expressions-of-interest-for-2024/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [6] The Wikimania Steering Committee:
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_Committee
>>>> [7] The Wikimedia Foundation Movement Communications team
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Movement_Communications
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> * I use this address for lists; send personal messages to phoebe.ayers
>>>>  gmail.com *
>>>> ___
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>>>> guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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[Wikimania-l] Re: Wikimania 2024 will be hosted in …

[Gnangarra]

ia", some discussions on a
>> mailing list, and the steering committee. Maybe it's time to do a committee
>> that focuses specifically on "re-imagining the future of Wikimania" that
>> can focus on doing several needed things -- like analyzing all the reports,
>> learnings & surveys from previous years, running a community survey, and
>> actually advocating more time to run a community conversation on what
>> things are important; including how the WMF can (or cannot) support this
>> event.
>>
>> I'm saying this too because one can personally find some arguments
>> compelling (i.e. sustainability) but then others in the movement might find
>> other arguments more important, and it's always good to know that.
>>
>> cheers,
>> ___
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[Wikimania-l] Re: Wikimania 2023 : Call for Program Submission, language translation of Wiki pages

[Gnangarra]

Hi

Wow you Wikimedians are amazing, thank you for jumping in to translate the
program submission pages, and for all other pages on the Wikimania wiki it
is appreciated by the whole Organizing Team.  We look forward to seeing
everyone in Singapore in August. Thank you again and keep up the great
effort to help make Wikimania accessible to everyone.

Regards
Gnangarra
Wikimania 2023 COT

On Mon, 6 Mar 2023 at 06:05, Ruben Hilari-Jilalu  wrote:

> doing into Aymara
>
> El sáb, 4 mar 2023 a las 4:10, Jagseer S Sidhu ()
> escribió:
>
>> Hi
>> I have translated
>> https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2023:Program/Submissions into
>> Punjabi. Will translate remaining soon.
>>
>> Best
>> Jagseer (he/him)
>> Punjabi Wikimedia User Group
>>
>> On Wed, 1 Mar 2023, 12:39 pm ESEAP Wikimania Core Organizing Team, <
>> wikimania2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Folks!
>>>
>>> A while ago we shared to you the diff post about our call for program
>>> submission.
>>>
>>> To promote language diversity and collaboration,  We ask for your help
>>> to translate the following Wikimania wiki pages to your native local
>>> languages on your free time. We greatly appreciate if it is fully
>>> translated this week. The program submission period ends on March 28.
>>>
>>> ■ https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2023:Program/Submissions
>>>
>>> ■ https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2023:Program/Form_Questions
>>>
>>> ■ https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2023:Program/FAQ
>>>
>>> Thank you!
>>>
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Butch Bustria
>>> On behalf of the ESEAP Wikimania 2023 Core Organizing Team
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 1, 2023, 1:02 AM ESEAP Wikimania Core Organizing Team <
>>> wikimania2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>> Do you want to present at Wikimania 2023 <https://www.wikimania.org>?
>>>> Wikimania program submissions are open now until the end of day Tuesday 28
>>>> March, anywhere on earth <https://zonestamp.toolforge.org/1680091140>.
>>>> We welcome your session proposals. Read more on *Diff*
>>>> <https://diff.wikimedia.org/2023/02/28/be-part-of-the-wikimania-2023-program/>and
>>>> start preparing your ideas!
>>>>
>>>> We look forward to reviewing your submissions.
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>> *Butch Bustria *
>>>> On behalf of the Wikimania 2023 Core Organizing Team
>>>>
>>> ___
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>
>
> --
>
> *Ruben Hilari Q.*
>
> *Jaqi-Aru <http://www.jaqi-aru.org/>*
> 591-735-72-842
> Skype: ruben.hilari
>
>
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[Wikimania-l] Re: Dates announced: Wikimania 2023

[Gnangarra]

gt;
>>>>
>>>> Tech presentations
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tech collabs, hacks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Casual meet-ups
>>>>
>>>> Editathons, Datathons,
>>>>
>>>> Content Translations, Wikisource, Citation Hunt, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Day of programming
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lectures
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Panel discussion
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Remote presentation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tech presentations
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tech collabs, hacks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Closing ceremony
>>>>
>>>> Evening dinner & party
>>>>
>>>> Thematic culture and heritage day
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Casual tours and other activities such as commons photo walks,
>>>> editathons, datathons, and many others.
>>>>
>>>> *Subject to change, per program committee planning*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Scholarships and program submissions are opening in January. So start
>>>> thinking about this year’s theme and how your work contributes to it.
>>>>
>>>> For further inquiries, please write to wikima...@wikimedia.org.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>
>>>> *Butch Bustria*
>>>> Event Leader, Singapore
>>>> On behalf of the ESEAP Wikimania Core Organizing Team
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Wikimedia ESEAP refers to East, South East Asia and the Pacific.*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ___
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>>>>
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[Wikimania-l] Re: Core Organizing Team (COT) Wikimania 2022

[Gnangarra]

Woolah!

Welcome to the 2022 COT,  a great group of Wikimedians. I'm excited and
looking forward to Wikimania 2022.

Boodarwun

On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 at 06:48, Samuel Klein  wrote:

> Huzzah!  Thanks for the update.  Looking forward to the new new mania.
> Learning to throw a wide range of beautiful virtual events feels like a
> strength that will be important to the projects for a long time to come.
>
> On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 10:19 AM Iolanda Pensa  wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>> We are very happy to announce the Core Organizing Team (COT) for
>> Wikimania 2022: Anton Protsiuk, Antoni Mtavangu, Evelin Heidel (Scann),
>> Houcemeddine Turki (Csisc), Kayode Yussuf (Kayusyussuf), NANöR, Omar David
>> Sandoval Sida (Omar_sansi), Richard Knipel (Pharos), Sandra Aceng, and
>> Venus Lui.
>>
>> You find photos and biographies on
>>
>> https://diff.wikimedia.org/2022/02/24/announcing-the-wikimania-2022-core-organizing-team/
>>
>> This talented group of volunteers from around the world was selected from
>> more than 70 excellent applications. They will work with you over the next
>> six months to organize our annual flagship event, designing a Wikimania
>> that brings our community together and celebrates our movement.
>>
>> In the coming weeks, the COT will be inviting your ideas and suggestions
>> on what Wikimania 2022 should look like – what would you like to see more
>> of? What should we keep from last year [1]? What should be different? And
>> of course we’ll need your contribution to the event as volunteers. More to
>> be shared soon and do not hesitate to share your thoughts with us on the
>> Wikimania 2022 discussion page.
>>
>> Thanks to the new COT and to all Wikimania 2022 volunteers!
>> Here’s to a great event!
>> iolanda
>> on Behalf of the Wikimania Committee and the Wikimedia Foundation team
>>
>> [1] https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2021:Evaluation
>> ___
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>
>
> --
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[Wikimania-l] Re: Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 176, Issue 1

[Gnangarra]

e team will help determine the structure and timeline of the
>> event,
>> > lead programming, scholarship, communication and other teams for the
>> event,
>> > and help ensure our global conference is a success.
>> >
>> > For the process to volunteer, see:
>> >
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2022/Volunteer#How_to_volunteer
>> >
>> > There's a set of questions on the meta page linked above; you can email
>> > your answers to the events team or post on meta by January 9th, 2022.
>> > Events staff and Wikimania steering committee members will review
>> > applications, meet with shortlisted candidates the following week, and
>> > announce the core organizing team by January 21st. Please post any
>> > questions on the talk page. We look forward to building an amazing
>> > conference team!
>> >
>> > best,
>> > Phoebe Ayers
>> > vice-chair Wikimania Steering Committee
>> >
>> > --
>> > * I use this address for lists; send personal messages to phoebe.ayers
>> 
>> > gmail.com *
>> > -- next part --
>> > A message part incompatible with plain text digests has been removed ...
>> > Name: not available
>> > Type: text/html
>> > Size: 1851 bytes
>> > Desc: not available
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > Subject: Digest Footer
>> >
>> > ___
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>> > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > End of Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 176, Issue 1
>> > ***
>>
>>
>>
>> Betty Wills (Atsme on Wikipedia)
>> atsmethat...@gmail.com
>>
>>
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* 2021*
*Celebrating 20 years of Wikipedia*


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Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
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[Wikimania-l] Re: Local Wikimania events

[Gnangarra]

Yes you can please keep it like the current design so we bring in all the
Wikimania designs when they become available.


On Tue, 6 Jul 2021 at 18:57, Deryck Chan  wrote:

> In a way I like how decentralized this is... Though it would also be
> helpful to start a centralized listing of in-person Wikimania events.
> Should I start one?
>
> On Tue, 6 Jul 2021 at 11:33, Gnangarra  wrote:
>
>> Hi Deryck
>>
>> I'd recommend that you advertise your meetup in the
>> https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2021:Community_Village on the
>> wikimania page and through all the local resources you would normally
>> advertise a meetup like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup
>> .  I also suggest contacting your local Affiliate WMUK for further
>> assistance.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Gnangarra
>> Wikimania COT
>>
>> On Tue, 6 Jul 2021 at 18:26, Butch Bustria  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Deryck,
>>>
>>> For funding meetups or related expenditures, an affiliate can apply by
>>> 31st July at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2021/Scholarships
>>>
>>> For non-affiliates, or small group of Wikimedians it may be requested
>>> through a traditional WMF rapid grant.
>>>
>>> For Wikimedians who will host a meetup, WMF funded or self funded can
>>> post an enquiry to the organizing committee at
>>> https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2021:Submissions/Help_desk or at
>>> communityeve...@wikimedia.org
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Butch Bustria
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 6, 2021, 5:31 PM Deryck Chan  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Wikimaniacs,
>>>>
>>>> I'm organising a local meetup (Cambridge, UK) as part of Wikimania.
>>>>
>>>> Where is the best place to post the details on-wiki? The Wikimania
>>>> wiki's surprisingly empty compared to previous years because submissions
>>>> have moved away from the wiki...
>>>>
>>>> --Deryck
>>>> ___
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>>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> GN.
>>
>> *Wikimania 2021*
>> *Celebrating 20 years of Wikipedia*
>> *acknowledging our Past, Present, and Future*
>> our virtual global conference
>> *13–17 August, 2021*
>> hosted by Every community
>>
>> Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
>> Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
>> My print shop: https://www.redbubble.com/people/Gnangarra/shop?asc=u
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-le...@lists.wikimedia.org
>>
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*Wikimania 2021*
*Celebrating 20 years of Wikipedia*
*acknowledging our Past, Present, and Future*
our virtual global conference
*13–17 August, 2021*
hosted by Every community

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Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2021 Updates: Save the date and Core Organizing Team

[Gnangarra]

Hi Deryck

We have put that down as one of the items the team needs to consider if its
practical including what goodies we could provide.  Personally I'd like to
get a Wikimania t-shirt at least...

Regards
Gnangarra

On Sat, 10 Apr 2021 at 20:58, Deryck Chan  wrote:

> Thank you COT.
>
> I'm guessing it would be free of charge to tune in to the events, but can
> we pay a registration fee and get a Wikimania 2021 goodybag delivered to
> our physical location? :D
>
> --Deryck
>
> On Fri, 9 Apr 2021 at 20:36, Iolanda Pensa  wrote:
>
>> Dear Wiki Community,
>>
>> It is with great pleasure that we - the Wikimania Steering Committee[1] -
>> announce that Wikimania will be hosted virtually from August 13-17th,
>> 2021 [2] and that the Core Organizing Team (COT) has been selected and
>> fully onboarded. Since 2021 marks the 20th anniversary of Wikipedia,
>> Wikimania 2021's theme is 20 years of Wikipedia and all the humans that
>> make it possible. We'll look back at our history and celebrate our future.
>>
>> We thank everyone who applied to the call for volunteers [3] - it was a
>> tough selection process given the impressive number of strong applicants we
>> received. However, The Wikimania Steering Committee is  pleased to announce
>> that after due deliberation and assessment, we selected a total of 9
>> individuals from our broad community who will lead the way in organizing
>> the first ever virtual Wikimania.
>>
>> The official Core Organizing Team members are the following:
>>
>>1. Vanj Padilla
>>2. Anna Torres (Anna Torres (WMAR)
>>3. Susanna Mkrtchyan (WikiTatik)
>>4. Winnie Kabintie
>>5. Lea Lacroix (WMDE)
>>6. Yamen Bousrih (Yamen)
>>7. Gnangarra
>>8. Bodhisattwa
>>9. Lodewijk (Effeietsanders)
>>
>>
>> We trust that each COT member has the skills, dedication and willingness
>> to come together and bring to life our very first virtual edition of
>> Wikimania and to help create the necessary spaces for our community to
>> continue to thrive and work together. We had originally foreseen the need
>> for 4-6 individuals to form the COT but after such strong applications, we
>> decided to extend that number to 9 individuals, given the great team that
>> we identified could work together and flourish.
>>
>> We invite you all to participate in Wikimania 2021 and to contribute to
>> its content and success. The COT will be reaching out to some applicants
>> who marked their availability to be volunteers in their application, but we
>> also encourage you to let us know if you would like to be considered for
>> volunteer roles and opportunities for Wikimania 2021.
>>
>> With this said, as the functioning Wikimania Steering Committee, we would
>> like to make public our endorsement of the Core Organizing Team and our
>> trust that they will move forward with the great responsibility and
>> excitement of bringing to life Wikimania 2021.
>>
>> The COT will soon be announcing more information around Wikimania 2021
>> and how you can get involved - so please stay tuned. Please save the dates
>> in your calendars, we hope to see you there!
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> The Wikimania Steering Committee
>>
>> [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_Committee
>> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2021
>> [3] https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2021:Call_for_volunteers
>>
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*Power of Diverse Collaboration*
*Sharing knowledge brings people together*
Wikimania Bangkok 2022
August
hosted by ESEAP

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[Wikimania-l] Scholarship for 2020 Wikimania now open

[Gnangarra]

Wikimania is fast approaching, this year it'll be held in Bangkok and as
always the Wikimedia Foundation has a limited number of opportunities to
assist people to attend. There are two types of scholarships the first
being a full scholarship which covers, travel, accommodation, and
registration, the second a  partial scholarship that covers accommodation
and registration.

This year for the first time East, South East Asia, and Pacific  (ESEAP) as
collaboration between the region we'll be your host for Wikimania.  The
region has placed a high importance on collaboration and knowledge sharing
this years Wikimania program will reflect that. Our theme is;
*Power of Diverse Collaboration*
*Sharing knowledge brings people together*

How does this impact on scholarship? ESEAP is looking for people who are
prepared to share their knowledge to help develop potential future
leaders.  We'll be looking for two broad areas of contributions, from those
who have successfully developed programs, and those  newer contributors who
want to develop their skills to do more but have never been to a Wikimania
to broaden their support networks.

As you apply please agree to share your details with the local affiliate
should they also have scholarships available. When answering questions if
you have urls to reports, dashboards, and events please provide them.
Rather than writing lots of words again let your past recordings speak.

On behalf of the ESEAP community, and the Scholarship committee we look
forward to seeing you in Bangkok in August.

--
Gnangarra
Wikimania Scholarship committee Co-chair

*Power of Diverse Collaboration*
*Sharing knowledge brings people together*
Wikimania Bangkok 2020
August 5 to 9
hosted by ESEAP

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Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania Scholarship Applications opens 17 February

[Gnangarra]

Hi Naureen

I'm the scholarship co-chair, what you are offering is a wonderful
opportunity thank you.

Please contact Roman and me directly to discuss how we can make this a
reality , my initial thought is that WMF process would run it normal
course, while that is happening we can identify people from places like
Myanmar who rated highly but werent offered a place and dont have an
affiliate scholarship pathway to pursue.

There are some mechanics we'll need to put in place and there will also be
some privacy issues to consider, before it goes ahead.

Thank you again for such a wonderful offer

Regards
Gnangarra

On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 at 02:42, Naureen  wrote:

> Hi Roman,
>
> I’ve begun a job now and been pondering giving money specifically for
> supporting scholarships to Wikimania. Is that an option? I’d like to help
> support for example increasing people coming from Myanmar abc other under
> represented language regions.
>
> Warm regards
> Naureen Nayyar
> Stockholm
>
> On Sat, Feb 8, 2020 at 10:42 AM, Roman Bustria Jr. 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Everyone!
>>
>> As you may know, Wikimania 2020, will happen on 5–9 August 2020 in
>> Bangkok, Thailand. The *Wikimedia Foundation Scholarships Program* is
>> offering a limited number of scholarships to cover the cost of selected
>> individuals’ travel, conference registration fee, and accommodation to
>> attend Wikimania using funding provided by the Wikimedia Foundation
>> <https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/> (WMF).
>>
>>- Scholarship applications open: *17 February 2020*
>>- Deadline for applying for scholarships: *16 March 2020* 23:59:59
>>UTC.
>>- Phase 1 eligibility assessment by the WMF: March (no notification
>>about the outcome)
>>- Phase 2 in-depth evaluations by the Scholarship Committee
>>
>> <https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Scholarship_Committee>:
>>April
>>- Applicants are notified about final decisions: by early May
>>- The final list
>>
>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:TPS/Wikimania_scholars#2020_WMF_Wikimania_Scholarships>
>>  of
>>recipients is announced *May/June* .
>>
>> For more information, you can visit the following links:
>>
>> https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2020:Scholarships
>>
>> https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/Scholarships/FAQ
>>
>> https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/Scholarships/Selection_Process
>>
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Wikimania_scholars/Reviewer's_guide
>>
>>
>> https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Scholarship_Committee
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Butch Bustria
>> Wikimedia ESEAP
>>
>>
>> -
>> The information contained in this message is privileged and intended only
>> for the recipients named. If the reader is not a representative of the
>> intended recipient, any review, dissemination or copying of this message or
>> the information it contains is prohibited. If you have received this
>> message in error, please immediately notify the sender, and delete the
>> original message and attachments.
>>
>> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>>
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> --
> *Naureen Nayyar*
> Naureen.co
> +1.646.481.6672
> @norabean
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GN.

*Power of Diverse Collaboration*
*Sharing knowledge brings people together*
Wikimania Bangkok 2020
August 5 to 9
hosted by ESEAP

Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
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Re: [Wikimania-l] New Sister Projects lunchtime meetup today

[Gnangarra]

Would love to be part of the discussion but  I like to see a oral or
intangible knowledge project to collect both cultural histories and
personal experiences to add to the stories being told on Wikipedia

On Fri, 16 Aug 2019 at 15:14, Pharos  wrote:

> The New Sister Projects Meetup is a gathering together of Wikimedians
> interested in experimenting with proposals for new sister projects.
>
> There has been no new sister project since 2012!
>
> Let's talk about ways to make a more agile process where it is much easier
> to start small new projects to see if they work out, and maybe also to
> merge old projects if they do not work out.
>
> One such proposal is Wikispore, which involves a Community Wishlist-style
> contest, but existing proposals like Wikimedia genealogy project, as well
> as all subject-based and general ideas will be considered.
>
> Technical input from small wiki founders/administrators and MediaWiki
> developers/installers will also be more than welcome!
>
> Since this conflicts with other important meetups, we will be glad to
> schedule a follow-up session later at Wikimania if there is interest.
>
> **Saturday, 17 August, 13:00 – 14:00 (1:00 - 2:00 pm) Central European
> Summer Time - meet at lunchtime in Lessing (D499)**
>
> Sign up here:
> https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Meetups/New_Sister_Projects
>
> Thanks,
> Richard
> (User:Pharos)
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Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
Out now: A.Gaynor, P. Newman and P. Jennings (eds.), *Never Again:
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Re: [Wikimania-l] In Memoriam at Wikimania

[Gnangarra]

Unfortunately its a list that will never stop growing,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Morethangrass passed today(10th August)
in Perth, Western Australia.



On Sun, 4 Aug 2019 at 23:52, Mardetanha  wrote:

> I was just notified one member of arwiki has passed away
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157063852790590=501825589
> it would be great if could have his picture on the corner too.
>
> Mardetanha
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 3:08 PM Cornelius Kibelka <
> cornelius.kibe...@wikimedia.de> wrote:
>
>> Hi Mykola,
>>
>> ideally, everyone since August 2018, since last Wikimania.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Cornelius
>>
>> On Fri, 2 Aug 2019 at 12:10, Mykola Kozlenko  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Cornelius,
>>>
>>> Is it about Wikimedians deceased this year (after last Wikimania) or all
>>> time?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Mykola (NickK)
>>>
>>> * 2 серпня 2019, 11:34:03, від "Cornelius Kibelka" <
>>> cornelius.kibe...@wikimedia.de >: *
>>>
>>> Dear Wikimedians,
>>>
>>> We would like to use the opportunity of our global gathering to remember
>>> and mourn the community members that have left us.
>>>
>>> Instead of including this in a speech, I would like to arrange a small
>>> corner within the Wikimania venue where everyone can remember and mourn,
>>> similar to what we did at the Wikimedia Conference 2018.[1] The corner
>>> will be in a quieter part of the venue.
>>>
>>> I would kindly ask you to send me, Cornelius, the relevant information
>>> (name or nickname, photo if possible, date of birth/death if possible), by 
>>> August
>>> 9, 24:00 CEST, so everything can be arranged accordingly.
>>>
>>> With such a space, we hope to both honor those that have left us, as
>>> well as give those that want to mourn a dedicated place to do so.
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>>
>>> Cornelius
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_Conference_2018_%E2%80%93_298.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cornelius Kibelka
>>> Internationale Beziehungen | International Relations
>>> Vorstandsteam | Office of the ED
>>>
>>> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
>>> Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
>>> http://wikimedia.de
>>>
>>> Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
>>> Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
>>> http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
>>>
>>> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
>>> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
>>> der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
>>> Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>>> ___
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>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Cornelius Kibelka
>> Internationale Beziehungen | International Relations
>> Vorstandsteam | Office of the ED
>>
>> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
>> Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
>> http://wikimedia.de
>>
>> Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
>> Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
>> http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
>>
>> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
>> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
>> der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
>> Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Suggestion on details in scholarship emails

[Gnangarra]

impact isnt what an event costs its what it can achieve... the more we
measure the dollar as a ghod the less we value the communities, and less we
set ourselves up to achieve a real impact.  We want to look at what a place
can add not how cheaply the event can be, and regardless of the location
some will be more than others as measure it fails. If the focus is just the
dollar then we open up to corruption, and we will always end up with events
in places that have the best US exchange rates much of that can be
attributed the lack of social cohesion, and individual repressions.  An
event US, EU, or Australia opens ups GLAM collections, opens the
opportunity to meet with philanthropic corporates & individuals to promote
our need for long term funding, they also be favorable for disabilities and
other concerns.  Other communities need growth the event can bring that,
its also brings status which is something we need to be careful of, we also
need to balance safety somewhere like Bandar Seri Begawan wouldnt be a good
idea at the moment.  Tokyo would be expensive but gaining better access to
1000+ years of knowledge would be worth it, likewise Rio or Santiago or Koranic
Sankore University in Timbukto.  Every location comes with a set of issues,
we need to balance them for what they can achieve for the movement,
sometime it also means taking the easy options too where everything can be
done with ease

I understand why Rehman is saying in showing people the physical cost of
them attending to help appreciate what they are getting, but the people
that get the opportunity via scholarship should already know the value of
attending otherwise why are they going, and why are we even holing an
event.  I know that for me to attend Sweden it'd cost me approximately 25%
of my yearly income, I really dont need to be told that to appreciate the
opportunity of attending. Hopefully people chosing to apply shouldn't be
doing so just to have "jolly good time".

There are lots of legitimate issues people can raise about Wikimanias, lets
not added unnecessary noise about individuals who have no control over the
decision of a committee.

On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 at 19:19, Gabriel Thullen  wrote:

> Maybe we should give priority to countries who do not have a restrictive
> Visa policy. I guess that would rule out Europe, North America &
> Australia...
>
> Gabe
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 12:47 PM Federico Leva (Nemo) 
> wrote:
>
>> Gnangarra, 17/04/19 13:23:
>> > What we'll end up with Wikimanias in 3rd world countries because ts
>> cheaper
>>
>> Is it? The budgets I've seen so far suggest otherwise, but we don't have
>> full data.
>>
>> Federico
>>
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>

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Out now: A.Gaynor, P. Newman and P. Jennings (eds.), *Never Again:
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Suggestion on details in scholarship emails

[Gnangarra]

it's an ok idea but dollars spent doesnt equate to the value gained, and
will vary between locations.  What we'll end up with Wikimanias in 3rd
world countries because ts cheaper not because of potential impact. That is
something we already see.

How do you measure impact when its about sharing of knowledge, WMF can ask
for reports but a person who writes a good report may provide lower impact
than a person who gets a one off opportunity and then builds and runs 100's
of outreach projects over time but cant write a "good report".  We fail to
value the relationships, and personal impact for measures that can be put
into easy numbers immediately.  We do need to measure outcomes some how,
all too often the numbers become centre of the universe not the sharing of
knowledge.  We would do better to stretch the limits rather than to shrink
the dollars per unit, no where should be impossible, to small, or too far.

On Wed, 17 Apr 2019 at 17:56, Federico Leva (Nemo) 
wrote:

> Rehman Abubakr, 17/04/19 12:10:
> > Would it make sense to include the approximate total monetary value of
> > the scholarship award (airfare, lodging, insurance, logistics, etc)
> > within the scholarship award emails to the recipients?
>
> This is a good suggestion, although it might be hard to give an exact
> figure before the flights are booked (if WMF is booking them directly).
>
> The total figure should also include the per capita cost for the overall
> conference. Such calculations are easier to make if the budget is
> published transparently after Wikimania, something that seems to have
> stopped:
> 
>
> Federico
>
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Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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Re: [Wikimania-l] New Wikimania program design announced: call for proposals OPEN

[Gnangarra]

It does sound like an interesting approach I look forward to it being a
successful format, will there time at the end of the day for panel sessions
to further explore the days discussions. Like Mina I too have been working
with disadvantaged and oppressed communities to bring their knowledge,
language, and culture into the Wiki world.

It'll be an interesting challenge for the program committee to judge the
where a talk submission fits, not just in time but also in content.

On Sat, 2 Mar 2019 at 05:40, Mina Theofilatou 
wrote:

> Wow! This is a great idea, and I hope it will change our outlook on the
> Wikimedia movement and the potential it carries for change at a much
> greater level than building and sharing knowledge... I have been trying to
> bring attention to what participation in the movement can do for
> disadvantaged individuals practically on my own in my community, and now
> reading this... and the connection with the SDGs... it's more than exciting
> :)
>
> Looking forward to seeing how this develops!
>
> Best,
> Mina
>
>
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> 
> <#m_5267767809410302917_m_-8413215816840512418_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 8:28 PM Eric Luth  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> The Wikimania organizing team is now happy to announce the *Program
>> Design*  of
>> Wikimania 2019!
>>
>> We believe that this year’s conference theme
>>  requires a format that
>> is *future-oriented, collaborative, active, and focused on practical
>> problem-solving. *The program will therefore consist of a series of
>> parallel *spaces* (or tracks), lead by *leaders,* and through practical
>> training, learning, idea-sharing and cross-cultural collaboration focusing
>> on different *topic areas*.
>>
>> The call for proposals for these *Leaders*, and what they would like to
>> do with those *Spaces*, is NOW OPEN. We invite you to visit the Program
>> Design page  on
>> the Wikimania Wiki to read more.
>>
>> Best,
>> *Eric Luth*
>> Conference Manager, Wikimedia Sverige
>> eric.l...@wikimedia.se
>> +46 (0) 765 55 50 95
>>
>> Stöd fri kunskap, bli medlem i Wikimedia Sverige.
>> Läs mer på blimedlem.wikimedia.se
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Friendly Space Policy (was: Sad news)

[Gnangarra]

The policy can not be expected to wholly and solely ensure the safety of
attendees, likewise stickers arent going to be readily identifiable in all
circumstances.  Then ask yourself the question what if someone who wears a
dont photograph me lanyard is walking around photographing other people.
There are more solutions to ensure a person isn't in a shot than preventing
someone from taking the photograph.

Placing yourself in a position to prevent others participating is an issue,
I can understand and respect that not everyone comes from a society where
they have a benevolent government who encourages the dissemination of free
knowledge.   A safe space policy has to include practical considerations as
part of that and we as end users need to also take a level of personal
responsibility to ensure that everyone can be part of any event, which is
why I raised the example.





On 6 August 2018 at 14:37, effe iets anders 
wrote:

> This is going wildly of topic.  But...
> The decency?
>
> I don't think i would agree with your characterization that people who
> don't like to give a carte blanche to everyone to publish (sometimes not
> very elegant) photos of them should treat themselves as second rank
> participants.
>
> Especially in the context of a discussion around a friendly space policy,
> i am of the opinion that this would be a dangerous direction.
>
> Lodewijk
>
> On Sun, Aug 5, 2018, 23:24 cs  wrote:
>
>> In  which  case, those people  should have the decency  to  not  present
>>  themselves anywhere where a photo shoot or video  recording is very likely
>> to take place. Or  politely  take space at  the back  of the room and wear
>> a face mask. Personally, I  don’t  see why  anyone should be embarrassed at
>>  being  part of a benevolent movement such  as  Wikipedia - have they
>>  something  disastrous to  hide? In  which  case, perhaps they  better not
>>  go  to  Wikimania at  all,  and if they  are scholarship  recipients, give
>> their place over to  someone else.
>>
>> Kudpung
>>
>> On 06, Aug2018, at 10:18, Gnangarra  wrote:
>>
>> I was disappointed at the last Wikimania(london 2014) I went to with the
>> number of people wearing dont take my photo stickers taking up positions at
>> the front of the room or near speakers that made it hard to get images of
>> the room and record the event.
>>
>> On 6 August 2018 at 11:11, cs  wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve been to  a great  many  international  conferences in  my  career -
>>>  but  not  so many  since I  retired. I  can’t  recall  people wearing
>>>  ‘Don’t  touch me’,  ‘Don’t  photo me’, ‘Don’t  come near me’, ‘Don’t  talk
>>>  to  me’ badges. Do  they  do  it  nowadays already?
>>>
>>> We’ll  porbably  never know the details of the incident  that  sparked
>>> all  this off but do I  think  it is getting  out  of proportion.
>>>
>>> Kudpung
>>>
>>> On 04, Aug2018, at 02:07, Pine W  wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks, James. I think that "clarifying the distinction between friendly
>>> spaces situations and Trust & Safety issues" is a good idea.
>>>
>>> A specific suggestion that was made earlier in this thread which sounded
>>> like a good idea to me was to have an indicator, somewhat like we currently
>>> do for "Photos OK" or "Photos not OK", for "friendly touch OK" or "friendly
>>> touch not OK".
>>>
>>> I would also like to see the upcoming review of the relevant policies
>>> include discussions of who should be responsible for them (I'm confused
>>> about why WMF is in charge of these issues at events instead of the local
>>> organizers) and the level of transparency regarding reports and
>>> investigations.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your attention to these issues.
>>>
>>> Pine
>>> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> GN.
>> Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
>> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
>> Photo Gallery:

Re: [Wikimania-l] Friendly Space Policy (was: Sad news)

[Gnangarra]

I was disappointed at the last Wikimania(london 2014) I went to with the
number of people wearing dont take my photo stickers taking up positions at
the front of the room or near speakers that made it hard to get images of
the room and record the event.

On 6 August 2018 at 11:11, cs  wrote:

> I’ve been to  a great  many  international  conferences in  my  career -
>  but  not  so many  since I  retired. I  can’t  recall  people wearing
>  ‘Don’t  touch me’,  ‘Don’t  photo me’, ‘Don’t  come near me’, ‘Don’t  talk
>  to  me’ badges. Do  they  do  it  nowadays already?
>
> We’ll  porbably  never know the details of the incident  that  sparked all
>  this off but do I  think  it is getting  out  of proportion.
>
> Kudpung
>
> On 04, Aug2018, at 02:07, Pine W  wrote:
>
> Thanks, James. I think that "clarifying the distinction between friendly
> spaces situations and Trust & Safety issues" is a good idea.
>
> A specific suggestion that was made earlier in this thread which sounded
> like a good idea to me was to have an indicator, somewhat like we currently
> do for "Photos OK" or "Photos not OK", for "friendly touch OK" or "friendly
> touch not OK".
>
> I would also like to see the upcoming review of the relevant policies
> include discussions of who should be responsible for them (I'm confused
> about why WMF is in charge of these issues at events instead of the local
> organizers) and the level of transparency regarding reports and
> investigations.
>
> Thanks for your attention to these issues.
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>
> ___
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>
>
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>


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Re: [Wikimania-l] Friendly Space Policy (was: Sad news)

[Gnangarra]

One reliable way to silence people when they experience harassment as well
> as keeping others from speaking out, is to have them experience how other,
> non-involved people, would immediately have an opinion on what happened and
> judge the case or the person in question. This is what has happened here.
> It is furthermore, absolutely out of proportion to weigh ones personal
> irritation about some members being potentially more aware and sensitive of
> this topic, against a context in which harassment and violence is not the
> exception, but everyday reality.
>
>
>>
>>
Transparency is the only way forward, a process where a known, trusted, and
respected community member is sanction behind closed doors by a group of
faceless, nameless individuals is never going to produce a trusted
outcome.One immediate re action would be to publish for every event, a
list of the people who are responsible for the decisions.   When they make
a decision they must be able to immediately defend that decision and the
actions taken, all parties must be clear on the reasons otherwise we do end
with what took place. Its this lack of transparency, understanding, and
silence that has brought us to this point.


  In the world most of us live in, offensive or invasive behavior has no
> tangible consequences for those who commit it, but severe effects on those
> who experience it


Even in this community  it takes place,  its seams to me we spend a lot of
time learning but very little time understanding because we keep finding
transparency is a common issue when things go astray.


On 30 July 2018 at 06:15, Pine W  wrote:

>
> I have no personal knowledge of the recent events at Wikimania, and I will
> speak about only the general principles involved.
>
>
>> True.  But for privacy and other reasons, it is impractical to make
>> friendly-space violations a matter of public debate,
>>
>
> Please provide evidence that backs up that point. I have repeatedly seen
> similar assertions made by WMF staff with no data or analysis to support it.
>
>
>> so we cannot resolve this the wiki way.  Instead, we *have* to trust the
>> people entrusted with enforcing the policy that they are careful, sensible,
>> and competent.
>>
>
> I wholeheartedly disagree. I don't trust judges to put people in jail
> simply because they happen to be judges. I trust judges to put people in
> jail after the publication of convincing evidence and reasoning to support
> their intended course of action.
>
> The standard of evidence required to remove someone from office, or remove
> them from an event, can be lower than the standard required to put someone
> in jail, but I still want mostly transparent due process to happen so that:
>
> 1. people who allege that misconduct has taken place have significant
> visibility into how their complaints are handled and thus, hopefully, can
> have confidence that the accusations are investigated in a responsible
> manner instead of being carelessly dismissed, and
> 2. people are not victimized with clearly false or poorly supported
> accusations that the authorities recklessly use as a basis for issuing
> sanctions instead of conducting a responsible investigation.
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>
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>


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Re: [Wikimania-l] Friendly Space Policy (was: Sad news)

[Gnangarra]

I think the problem is that many Wikimedians are very good at interpreting
policies in to definite rules to suit their point of view, and we struggle
to recognise that the spirit of a policy is more important. When that
happens we write more complexity in to policies rather than keeping it
simple and giving trust that we can reach reasonable outcomes.

Simply stated the policy is;


everyone should have the ability to contribute without fear, intimidation,
or recrimination.

everything that comes next become the tools for which to harness the power
of these policies, there is never going to be a simple set of words to
guide us because once we accept that someone has been harmed we then expect
a response that lays blame with another who intern must be punished.   Its
this flip side that make the policy a joke because someone now has their
ability to contribute laced with fear(I can say anything), intimidation(I
cant do that again or I'll be sent packing) and recrimination(I cant do
what I'm here to do and I wont be able to attend any future events).   The
safe space policy isnt meant to quell discussion, temper a persons
enthusiasm, nor change their culture,  it there solely to enable everyone
to safely and freely contribute.

On 29 July 2018 at 02:52, Lodewijk  wrote:

> I hope that the WMF Trust & Safety dept will soon some with a roadmap how
> to effectively evaluate this process with examples we can actually discuss
> without violating privacy. (I made some suggestions in person, but will
> leave it in their capable hands to take a long overdue leadership role in
> this conversation).
>
> My main concern is that I heard too many people ridiculing the friendly
> space policy in the past week - mostly people who would likely never
> violate it, but seemingly no longer feel empowered by it, feel no longer
> that it represents a best practice they should hold people to. Maybe the
> phrasing was never to the standards that they held, maybe it is a recent
> development. But it's high time to review things together with the wider
> community. If a policy like this is not supported broadly, I doubt it will
> ever be a success.
>
> Lodewijk
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 5:29 PM Deryck Chan  wrote:
>
>> I look forward to "hug me" / "don't touch me" stickers being issued next
>> year Q(^_^Q)
>>
>> Indeed we do "don't photograph me" stickers already so "personal space
>> needed" stickers sound like a natural extension.
>>
>> Deryck
>> (multicultural / "hug me")
>>
>> On 27 July 2018 at 15:31, Sam Oyeyele  wrote:
>>
>>> I believe the best way to avoid this kind of situation in the future, is
>>> to have tags specifically to indicate a need for personal space or
>>> something.
>>>
>>> From what I have read so far, Romaine has done nothing "out of the
>>> ordinary" (based on my cultural perspective); and he doesn't deserve this
>>> kind of treatment/sanction/punishment/etc.
>>>
>>> I should also state that I have met Romaine a couple of times, and he is
>>> indeed a very nice man, who always means the best.
>>>
>>> Sam.
>>>
>>> On 25 Jul 2018 16:41, Deryck Chan  wrote:
>>>
>>> This is the second time I remember that the Friendly Space Policy was
>>> invoked to remove a Wikimania attendee from a situation, presumably because
>>> of in-person misconduct on their part, where the removal was made public
>>> but the reason of removal was kept secret.
>>>
>>> The problem with such secretive invocations of Friendly Space is that it
>>> is very difficult, as Reem and others have pointed out, to not see this as
>>> a punishment.
>>>
>>> I understand that it is very difficult to balance the specific, personal
>>> sensitivities and cultural preferences of several hundred people from
>>> different cultures. But as this discussion has shown, it is
>>> counter-productive to use Friendly Space this way, because other
>>> Wikimaniacs are left worrying what the appropriate behaviour is supposed to
>>> be.
>>>
>>> I don't know the details of this incident because it wasn't public. But
>>> from what I know of Romaine from previous Wikimanias, I'm disappointed that
>>> this incident couldn't have been handled behind the scenes with T and the
>>> people involved. The fact that Romaine felt the need to go public about his
>>> removal as an organiser showed mis-handling of process.
>>>
>>> Well, actually the previous time was 6 years ago, so maybe we're doing
>>> well. We did try reforming the friendly space policy around 2013-14 but
>>> couldn't agree on something better at the time... The doors of improvement
>>> always stay open for the Wikimedia movement.
>>>
>>> --Deryck
>>>
>>> On 20 July 2018 at 11:28, James Alexander 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> I am, as always, sorry, that this has spilled out into the public sphere
>>> more I do not think that is ever a good thing as discussion of specific
>>> situations like this only serves to increase discomfort, make people feel
>>> even less safe and make victims of everyone.
>>>

Re: [Wikimania-l] Sad news

[Gnangarra]

It doesnt sound like it was good application of process, I think that this
could have been solved simply when the issue was raise with as Romaine has
already done explained and apologised his support should have continued.
It looks bad as someone who isnt there and knows Romaine that issue is be
blown out this much, I think its one that must be resolved today rather
than sometime in the future after the event when everyone has gone home.

Romaine right to have come to the list so that it gets the immediate
attention it needs, that is seeking help.   Leaving until after the event
isnt going to resolve anything all its going to do is allow it to linger
and fester potentially causing even more drama.   I think its beholden to
the organisers or at least the Trust & Safety team leaders to seek out the
parties involved  rather than let this continue.

On 20 July 2018 at 17:02, David Cuenca Tudela  wrote:

> I don't know Romaine personally but with the limited information I have it
> seems that a small series of incidents have been blown out of proportion.
> It saddens me that when asking to respect diversity and sensitivities, not
> all volunteers seem to have the same weight. People taking responsibilities
> also need to be taken care of, we cannot ask them to conform to fixed
> ideas, there should be some room to be oneself. As John said it is
> necessary that we are tolerant with small transgressions, otherwise we are
> creating a prison to ourselves based on the sensitivities of others.
>
> I only hope that this has been escalated progressively, and that there was
> an open communication at all stages of the process.
>
> Cheers,
> Micru
>
> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 10:37 AM Luca Martinelli 
> wrote:
>
>> Il giorno ven 20 lug 2018 alle ore 10:23 Lodewijk
>>  ha scritto:
>> > As part of this conversation, both here online and offline, I seem to
>> hear several people who are unhappy with how the policy is implemented. Let
>> us also recognize that it is important to have a friendly space - and that
>> this is a Hard Thing to accomplish. Agreeing or disagreeing in public with
>> a decision while only having part of the information can only make that job
>> harder and/or harm individuals.
>> >
>> > If you have beef with the policy and how it is implemented, I suggest
>> that you try to set up a meetup with the Trust & Safety team, and you can
>> have a conversation with them about the broader policy. They can perhaps
>> share some rough broader statistics as part of that. Otherwise, it is
>> probably more appropriate to have this online discussion after the
>> conference has concluded, based on the policy and practices as a whole, and
>> not an individual case.
>>
>> First of all, I apologise for my first message, because I
>> misunderstood Romaine's announcement: I thought it was a voluntary
>> step down, not a *request* for it.
>>
>> This all the more saddens me, as I have worked briefly with Romaine as
>> voluntary on the first day of Wikimania 2016, and I had the
>> opportunity of seeing first-hand how dedicated and sweet and full of
>> joy and energy as a volunteer he might be.
>>
>> Even if I agree with Lodewijk this is not the place to "overrun" the
>> decision of the T Team, or discuss/amend/whatever Wikimania's Safe
>> Space Policy, I'd like to get my message considered as a public
>> display of thankfulness and appreciation for Romaine's work throughout
>> the years, not as an explicit critic to anyone - but to be fully
>> honest, I'm quite puzzled by the decision nonetheless.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> --
>> Luca "Sannita" Martinelli
>> http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utente:Sannita
>>
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>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 1

[Gnangarra]

there is a reporting component, but in some cases the benefit is not what a
person brings back, its the local experiences they share while there that
really matters.   Overall the exchanging of knowledge and the building of
relationships is the key value of Wikimanias yet when it comes to reporting
its the immediate numbers that get focus, nowhere have the wmf gone back to
recipients 2,3 or 4 years later to see what the impact was and if that
continued beyond the immediate post event reporting.

Maybe the scholarship process could open earlier so that more time can be
invested in the selection process, its would also give more time to arrange
visas and help more people plan ahead



On 1 June 2018 at 23:07, Sjoerd de Bruin  wrote:

> I think that is already included in scholarship applications, if I
> remember correctly.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Sjoerd de Bruin
>
> Op 1 jun. 2018, om 17:06 heeft Julie Workman  het
> volgende geschreven:
>
> Is there at present any metric by which previous scholarship attendees are
> judged on their dissemination of Wikimania experiences after the
> conference? The complaint being brought up is not only about awardees
> getting repeat scholarships, but failing to enrich their communities
> afterwards with what they learned / what it was like / who they met / what
> they will do now. With a limited number of scholarships available, it is
> true that the attendees are expected to share their good fortune with those
> who couldn't attend.
>
> If nothing like that is in place, could it not be added? For example, a
> field on the application: "were you awarded a scholarship last year (and
> attended)?" "If yes, please describe (and provide links where possible) to
> the activities and discussions you organised with your community regarding
> your experience at Wikimania". If a sufficiently good and detailed response
> is not provided, the application can receive a lower score (or possibly be
> discarded...? I'm not au fait with the process).
>
> Julia W
>
> On 1 June 2018 at 13:00,  wrote:
>
>> Send Wikimania-l mailing list submissions to
>> wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Wikimania-l digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>1. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (Pine W)
>>2. Re: Update on Wikimania '18 (cs)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 18:31:08 -0700
>> From: Pine W 
>> To: "Wikimania general list (open subscription)"
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18
>> Message-ID:
>> > gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Harry, I recall hearing that there was a push a year or two back to alter
>> the proportion of presentations at Wikimania so that there were fewer WMF
>> presentations and more community presentations. I don't know if that was a
>> one time event or if that's ongoing. I have never been to Wikimania, and
>> have no plans to go in the foreseeable future, but I watch what happens
>> with Wikimania partly because it's an expensive operation in terms of
>> financial cost and in terms of volunteer time. Also, the scholarship
>> system
>> is a perennial point of friction.
>>
>> Dariusz or Ellie, are there any thoughts at WMF about doing a full review
>> of the scholarship system and the value of Wikimania to the community?
>> With
>> WMF spending so much money on Wikimania year after year, and volunteers
>> spending so much time on Wikimania year after year, I think that it would
>> make sense to do this type of review, which might be possible to
>> synchronize with WMF's strategy process. I am very interested in ensuring
>> that there are SMART goals being achieved with all of the money and time
>> that goes into Wikimania. At the same time, I think that the scholarship
>> system could be reviewed to consider the strategic priorities for
>> scholarships and how to align those priorities to SMART goals. I don't
>> envision reducing funding for Wikimania and scholarships, but I think that
>> some re-thinking and evaluation would be good to align funding with the
>> WMF
>> strategic plan and with SMART goals.
>>
>> Pine
>> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>>
>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 12:31 PM, Harry Mitchell 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Since you raise chapter scholarships, it would be nice to see some of
>> the
>> > other big chapters (and to some extent the WMF) spending more on
>> > scholarships for rank-and-file Wikimedians rather than staff and board
>> > members. That might 

Re: [Wikimania-l] Update on Wikimania '18

[Gnangarra]

 Viswaprabha  highlights a reason why some people may be appearing to get
Montreal and CapeTown.

Where as Kudpung is highlighting that over time some people seam to get
many scholarship opportunities to attend, while others miss out or
perpetually end up on the wait list.

I dont think Kudpung is picking on  Viswaprabha in any specific way, just
enquiring if the three other listed Wikimanias were all scholarships along
with capetown.

Personally I've only once got WMF scholarship to washington, once I was
asked by the chapter to represent them in london, I have applied for a few
others and been unsuccessful,

Yes its unfortunate that some people appear to get more opportunities while
others miss out, understanding the mechanics of how & why that happens is
an important part of  the processes being reviewed and improved.

In some ways such issues need seek personal information because that does
inform others.  I do wonder how much of the application information is
taken in good faith and how much is reviewed, because we know that filling
in forms for such activities is skill set that some people have the ability
to over promote themselves while others struggle in relating the good work
they are doing -- this part is no way intended to reflect on  Viswaprabha,
I appreciate Viswaprabha  took the time to highlight a personal event that
is impacting this discussion in a non normal way.

On 30 May 2018 at 14:45, Siebrand Mazeland  wrote:

> I think this is the point where we are deviating from the original issue,
> and where I feel things are getting way too personal. Can we please stay in
> a general topic and refrain from analyzing who in particular may or may not
> be getting the long or short end of the stick?
>
> --
> Siebrand
>
> Op 30 mei 2018 om 08:42 heeft CS  het volgende geschreven:
>
> Visswaprabha,
>
> '2012 Washington DC, 2014 London, 2015 Mexico.'
>
> and for how many of those did you get a scholarship?
>
> Kudpung
>
> On 30 May 2018, at 13:28, ViswaPrabha (വിശ്വപ്രഭ) 
> wrote:
>
> Just for the information of all those who read this thread,
> I did not get selected this year through the normal scholarship filtration
> process. I happen to be among those who could not attend Wikimania 2017 at
> Montreal, even after going through all these bashing and grillings and then
> obtaining a valid scholarship last year, due to the so called 'Canadian
> visa' problem.
> So, for me, scholarship to Wikimania 2018 was an automatic fall-in. Please
> reset your counters.
> My total Wikimania participation till date:
> 2012 Washington DC, 2014 London, 2015 Mexico.
>
> Regards,
> User:Viswaprabha
>
>
> On 30 May 2018 at 06:19, cs  wrote:
>
>> I  am also  concerned about  the same people  repeatedly receiving
>>  scholarships, and this is by  no  way  of complaining  that I did  not
>>  receive one.
>> As I  said last year however, I  believe it  is also inappropriate  to
>>  inform  applicants that  they  have been placed on  a short  list. Not
>> only  does this raise false hopes, but  as many  applications are based on
>>  the users' intentions to  submit a presentation, it  incurs a serious
>>  waste of volunteers' time.
>>
>> I  also  believe that  active Wikipedia users who  have financed their
>> own participation  in  the conference multiple times should also  be given
>> priority  consideration.
>>
>> I  fully  understand that  the according  of scholarships is a complex
>> and difficult  task. As  a former volunteer scholarship approvals committee
>> member, I  think  I  have some experience in  these maters.
>>
>> Not  one single Wikimania has been organised without  serious issues
>> which  often result in  attendees’ negative experience.
>> Perhaps the solution  would be to  have the entire concept  of Wikimania
>> place in  the hands of an experienced volunteer task  force of former
>> conference organizers, presenters,  and attendees who  will have learned
>> from  previous  errors and adminstartive organisational  hiccups. Funds
>> should also  be made available for  face-to-face meetings for  the
>> organisation of such  an important  event.
>>
>> Having  a truly executive Board of Trustees rather than one that  simply
>>  rubber stamps the way  the WMF works, in  this and most  other areas, may
>>  be a step  towards addressing  these issues.
>>
>> Kudpung
>>
>> On 30, May2018, at 01:59, Gheorghe Zugravu 
>> wrote:
>>
>> On 29.05.2018 20:33, praveenp wrote:
>>
>> I haven't seen any attempt to share the knowledge and wisdom acquired
>> from Wikimania to community through mailing list or wiki. Users
>> including me generally feel that community is being mocked on.
>>
>>
>> Hi to all,
>> without being too original here, and following praveenp comments - would
>> be good to encourage recipients of WMF scholarship to organize some type
>> of Wikimania follow-up activities back in their groups or chapters.
>>
>> I do believe that most of them are doing it anyway without any
>> requirements from WMF, 

Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2019

[Gnangarra]

Congratulations from Perth Bid team, & Wikimedia Australia to
Wikimedia  Sverige
and the people who put the effort in to make it possible.

On 7 February 2018 at 19:21, balaji  wrote:

> Congrats to  the volunteers of Wikimedia Sverige who have put lot of hard
> work to make this into reality.
>
>
> Best wishes..
>
>
> Cheers,
> J. Balaji
>
> On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 1:45 PM, Rémy Gerbet 
> wrote:
>
>> Congratulations to all and particularly to Wikimedia Sverige  :)
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gerbet Rémy*
>>
>> *Chargé de Mission Politique Territoriale**07 84 37 91 04*
>> *---**-*
>>
>> *WIKIMEDIA FRANCE*Association pour le libre partage de la connaissance
>> *www.wikimedia.fr  *
>> *40 rue de clery, **75002 Paris*
>> 
>>
>>
>> * 
>> *
>>
>> 2018-02-07 7:01 GMT+01:00 Stryn :
>>
>>> Grattis!
>>>
>>> -Stryn
>>>
>>> Sent from mobile
>>>
>>> 7.2.2018 3.59 "Ellie Young"  kirjoitti:
>>>





 *All,On behalf of the Wikimania Steering Committee and the Wikimedia
 Foundation, I am pleased to announce that we have decided to have Wikimania
 located in Sweden in 2019. The proposal
  from the
 Wikimedia Sweden chapter was accepted. The committee appreciates and values
 the long standing interest of Wikimania Sweden to host an event, and we
 believe that hosting Wikimania will be an opportunity to boost Wikimedia
 projects there with a specific focus on public art, a field in which the
 Swedish Sverige team has been particularly active.  The exact location of
 the conference will be confirmed at a later date.The Wikimania Committee
 reviewed and discussed four very strong proposals
  to host Wikimania in 2019.
 We would also like to thank the proposers from Sweden, Armenia, Perth, and
 Prague for all their efforts in putting together materials for our
 consideration and their time spent discussing the possibilities. It is very
 encouraging to have so much interest from our community from individuals
 who wish to lead and contribute to Wikimania.Please join us in
 congratulating the Wikimedia Wikimedia Sverige!
 Sincerely,Ellie YoungWMF Events
 ManagerOn behalf of the Wikimania Steering Committee and Wikimedia
 Foundation*


 ​

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Re: [Wikimania-l] Personal stories about Wikimedia / free portrait photos

[Gnangarra]

I think the videos are a great idea I did one back in 2012 in Washington, I
think that its important for our stories to be captured by the WMF so that
people can understand some of the people behind making Wikipedia.  Our
history and our people are as important as those that we are sharing

Please get behind Victor and make this happen, I'd offer to do another but
I wont be in Montreal

On 4 August 2017 at 13:28, Yongmin H.  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I don't think this is an appropriate topic ('paid editor') for
> wikimania-l, in a thread for 'personal stories about Wikimedia / free
> portrait photos'.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Yongmin
> Sent from my iPhone
> https://wp.revi.blog
> Text licensed under CC BY ND 2.0 KR
> Please note that this address is list-only address and any non-mailing
> list mails will be treated as spam.
> Please use https://encrypt.to/0x947f156f16250de39788c3c35b625da5beff197a.
>
> 2017. 8. 4. 14:24 Peter Southwood  작성:
>
> What would you consider a significant percentage?
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> *From:* Wikimania-l [mailto:wikimania-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org
> ] *On Behalf Of *Pine W
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 3, 2017 11:19 PM
> *To:* Wikimania general list (open subscription)
> *Subject:* Re: [Wikimania-l] Personal stories about Wikimedia / free
> portrait photos
>
>
>
> For what it's worth, I agree with Kudpung that WMF should stop saying that
> "All of the articles on Wikipedia are written by volunteers". I doubt that
> anyone has reliable statistics on what percentages of articles are started
> and/or edited by individuals who likely benefit financially from their
> edits in one way or another, but the percentage on English Wikipedia is
> likely to be significant.
>
> Pine
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 10:45 AM, cs  wrote:
>
> ‘All of the articles on Wikipedia are written by volunteers’
>
>
>
> You’ll need to correct that for your next video - if you knew the extent
> of paid editing, blackmail, and extortion we are discovering and trying to
> combat you’d fall off your chair or drop your camera.
>
>
>
> Kudpung
>
> On 3Aug, 2017, at 00:33, Victor Grigas  wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello Wikimedians!
>
> My name is Victor Grigas, I’m a storyteller and video producer
>  at the
> Wikimedia Foundation, the non-profit that supports Wikipedia. Many of you
> may already know me or my work. I'll be in Montreal at Wikimania from
> Thursday August 10th through Sunday August 13th and wanted to ask that if
> you *know someone *or *are someone* who has an inspiring story to share
> about how you use Wikimedia projects, then we'd like to hear it!
>
>
>
> If you are interested, please answer a few questions on this private
> Google form or share it with someone you know who will be attending
> Wikimania:
>
> https://goo.gl/forms/h6a9TWFyFMs4qgua2
>
> (All answers are confidential and we will not publish your story without
> first getting your written permission.)
>
>
> We publish profiles of Wikimedians here regularly:
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/c/communications/profiles/
>
>
>
> Then, in Montreal I can take your portrait photo
>  
> for
> free to publish on Wikimedia Commons. I’ll be there from Thursday August
> 10th through Sunday August 13th. I’ll only need a few minutes of your time
> to take your photo and we can co-ordinate by email. Once I'm there, I'll
> have a better idea of where I'll be for the best lighting setup.
>
> If you have any questions, feel free to email Victor Grigas -
> vgri...@wikimedia.org
>
> Thank you!
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> *Victor Grigas*
>
> Video Production Manager
>
> and Storyteller
>
> Wikimedia Foundation 
>
> vgri...@wikimedia.org
>
> https://donate.wikimedia.org/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

[Gnangarra]

I have on 4 occassions put forward Perth WA bids, including for 2017, 2018
and 2019, my response was purely to highlight that information being put
forward in this email thread that was incorrect and later praise  as nice
to facts being presented.  NO intention of usurping this thread. I'm well
aware of what it takes to host such a large event.

I know what the significance being able to attend a Wikimania is and feel
for those who are having visa problems

On 27 July 2017 at 14:34, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> wrote:

> Hi Gnagarra,
>
> if you want to make a proposal to host wikimania - please do. There's a
> whole package of things to consider though, not just visa.
>
> Otherwise, I think it is mostly distractingin this contest to hear people
> 'brag' about their own country's visa policy. If that is a topic you want
> to start, I suggest you branch off the discussion, into something like
> 'visa in my country are super easy'.
> (and this is equally valid for all other people from other countries that
> like to share about their visa policies)
>
> Best,
> Lodewijk
>
> On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 2:09 AM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Unfair to say Australia is the least friendly country as the Australian
>> Customs and Border protection has a whole dedicated process for conferences
>> https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/Trav/Conf that enable processing of visa
>> regardless of country by the organisors.   That over 100 countries can
>> apply electronically for a visitor visa with most applications process
>> within 72 hours  but what would I know having only worked in the tourism
>> industry for 30 years that couldnt be found out by putting poor research om
>> 3rd party sites as facts.
>>
>> On 3 July 2017 at 06:03, Mykola Kozlenko <mycol...@ukr.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> For the sake of the discussion on "it's way better in my country",
>>> please look what your country's visa policy really is. For instance, check
>>> https://www.passportindex.org/byWelcomingRank.php or relative (English)
>>> Wikipedia articles. The former gives the following figures:
>>> (Five latest Wikimania hosts)
>>> * Canada: 51 country can enter visa-free, visa on arrival, ETA or
>>> equivalent
>>> * Mexico: 67
>>> * UK: 91
>>> * Italy: 93
>>> * Hong Kong: 144
>>> (Some other countries mentioned here)
>>> * Australia: 34
>>> * Thailand: 78
>>> * Israel: 96
>>>
>>> Yes, that means that Canada is the least visa-friendly Wikimania host in
>>> the last 5 years. And yes, Thailand is less visa-friendly than the UK. And
>>> yes, Australia is the least visa-friendly country with an established
>>> Wikimedia chapter.
>>>
>>> Thus please do refer to facts when qualifying a country as a
>>> visa-friendly or not, and not to your own perception of a country's visa
>>> policy.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Mykola (NickK)
>>>
>>> --- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
>>> Від кого: "DaB." <w...@dabpunkt.eu>
>>> Дата: 2 липня 2017, 23:19:44
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
>>> >  a country like  Thailand where I  live
>>>
>>> you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the
>>> second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil
>>> war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
>>>
>>> Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give
>>> the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>> DaB.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Benutzerseite: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]]
>>> PGP: 0x7CD1E35FD2A3A158 (pka funktioniert)
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> GN.
>> President Wikimedia Australia
>> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
>> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
>>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

[Gnangarra]

Unfair to say Australia is the least friendly country as the Australian
Customs and Border protection has a whole dedicated process for conferences
https://www.border.gov.au/Busi/Trav/Conf that enable processing of visa
regardless of country by the organisors.   That over 100 countries can
apply electronically for a visitor visa with most applications process
within 72 hours  but what would I know having only worked in the tourism
industry for 30 years that couldnt be found out by putting poor research om
3rd party sites as facts.

On 3 July 2017 at 06:03, Mykola Kozlenko  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> For the sake of the discussion on "it's way better in my country", please
> look what your country's visa policy really is. For instance, check
> https://www.passportindex.org/byWelcomingRank.php or relative (English)
> Wikipedia articles. The former gives the following figures:
> (Five latest Wikimania hosts)
> * Canada: 51 country can enter visa-free, visa on arrival, ETA or
> equivalent
> * Mexico: 67
> * UK: 91
> * Italy: 93
> * Hong Kong: 144
> (Some other countries mentioned here)
> * Australia: 34
> * Thailand: 78
> * Israel: 96
>
> Yes, that means that Canada is the least visa-friendly Wikimania host in
> the last 5 years. And yes, Thailand is less visa-friendly than the UK. And
> yes, Australia is the least visa-friendly country with an established
> Wikimedia chapter.
>
> Thus please do refer to facts when qualifying a country as a visa-friendly
> or not, and not to your own perception of a country's visa policy.
>
> Thanks
> Mykola (NickK)
>
> --- Оригінальне повідомлення ---
> Від кого: "DaB." 
> Дата: 2 липня 2017, 23:19:44
>
> Hello,
> Am 02.07.2017 um 13:37 schrieb cs:
> >  a country like  Thailand where I  live
>
> you mean a country which is currently a military dictatorship (for the
> second time in 10 years)? A country that was THIS close to a open civil
> war? And if not a civil war, maybe a real war with Cambodia?
>
> Visa problems are problematic, but it is 10 times better than to give
> the Wikimania to an instable country – we are not the FIFA.
>
> Sincerely,
> DaB.
>
>
> --
> Benutzerseite: [[:w:de:User:DaB.]]
> PGP: 0x7CD1E35FD2A3A158 (pka funktioniert)
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

[Gnangarra]

I would think that once a location is chosen the first step would be for
the WMF to immediately open up discussions with the relevant Authority to
ensure that scholarships recipients have sufficient paperwork and time to
get approval as well as any assurances or processing options can be put in
place.  If there is a limit put on the number of attendee then at least
that can be in the open so people know and if people already have visa that
enable them to attend they could at least present this as part of the
application.

Ideally an Affiliate would be the best situated to do such things but  this
then raises issues about the status of User Groups which are designed not
to have the bureaucracy of chapters and therefore wont necessarily have the
same legal standing to support visa applications or even advocate for them.



On 24 June 2017 at 10:19, Risker  wrote:

> Writing as a Canadian, I can only apologize for the difficulty so many of
> you are having in obtaining visas to this country.  I am really looking
> forward to welcoming many of you to the beautiful city of Montreal, and I
> am devastated to read that so many people seem to be being turned down for
> visas.
>
> The decisions for locations for Wikimania are made about two years in
> advance - which is actually pretty late for large international conferences
> (most international organizations make these decisions 3-4 years in
> advance).  But even during the course of two years, some circumstances can
> change significantly.  I am aware that Canada has become more stringent in
> handing out visas, as have many other countries in the past 2 years -
> something that couldn't really be anticipated at the time the decision was
> made.  I don't have any good advice for any of you on this - while I live
> in Canada, I'm not a member of either the Wikimania planning group or
> Wikimania Canada, and I have no contacts in the federal government that
> would be helpful in getting visas.
>
> I am hoping that some magic can happen for you that will enable you to
> come to Canada.  We will all be losing the value of your company, and you
> will be missed.
>
> Risker/Anne
>
>
>
> On 23 June 2017 at 21:28, Kerry Raymond  wrote:
>
>> So an organisation P in country Q writes a letter of support to country R
>> to grant a visa to person S from country T on the basis that organization P
>> thinks that person S is actually the pseudonymous user U?
>>
>> I am not surprised immigration officials don't find this an entirely
>> compelling reason to grant a visa. WMF is not a Canadian organization, and
>> it is not clear to me that WMF is actually in a position to confirm the
>> real life identity of the user they want to attend in any case.
>>
>> Kerry
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On 24 Jun 2017, at 12:19 am, Jean-Philippe Béland 
>> wrote:
>>
>> As per WMF directions, Wikimedia Canada was not involved in anything in
>> relations to visas. The WMF is taking care of that themselves. They did not
>> ask us to write anything to embassies.
>>
>> I am sorry that Canada has strict rules on visa requirements for a lot of
>> countries.
>>
>> Jean-Philippe Béland
>> Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
>> User:Amqui
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Ranjith S 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My visa is also got rejected. So I am not coming to Canada this year. I
>>> think Canada is a bad place for Wikimania due to their strict rules. And
>>> thinking that is not a tourist friendly country.
>>>
>>> On 23-Jun-2017 12:52 AM, "Jayanta Nath"  wrote:
>>>
 I think Wikimedia Canada not send any intimation to their Embassy of
 respective countries.

 Jayanta Nath

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>>
>> --
>>
>> Jean-Philippe Béland
>>
>> [image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada
>> , chapitre national
>> soutenant Wikipédia
>> Vice president — Wikimedia Canada
>> , national chapter
>> supporting Wikipedia
>> 535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec)  H2L 2P3,jpbel...@wikimedia.ca
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

[Gnangarra]

These issues are a symptom of the closed processes that have occurred
firstly with Montreal and next year with middle eastern attendees to Cape
Town .  Acknowledging that the change was because of the amount effort put
in by unsuccessful bidders was said to be wasted its showing that some
things need to be opened for community discussion before decisions are
made.

 That it may be better for the WMF to require applicants to first obtain a
visa before being confirmed for the scholarships in the future.
Perth/Australia is another place that visas for attendees wouldnt have been
a big issue.

On 22 June 2017 at 17:43, cs  wrote:

> That’s one of the  reasons why  I  proposed Bangkok, Thailand, for 2019 -
> apart  from its extremely tolerant  social cultures and very  low cost,
> while being  a very  modern hi-tech city easily  accessible by  direct
>  flights from most  parts of the world. Almost  everyone can enter the
> country  for  at  least  15  days without  even a visa. Thailand only makes
> it difficult for people wanting to stay longer (years) in the country  on
> the pretext  of being  tourists.
>
> It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but  perhaps this will open up the
> possibility to some refused scholarship applications.
>
> Kudpung.
>
> On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal 
> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from global
> south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from
> these countries.
>
> This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4 from
> India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients from
> Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are waiting.
> Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but
> may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
>
> Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in those
> countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even for a
> 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly presented.
>
> Best wishes,
> Bodhisattwa
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Successful scholarship applications

[Gnangarra]

Yongmin

That is a good idea as it help prompt people in writing their report and we
could see a person expectation about attending compared to the initial
impact of attending.  In my opinion the reporting post Wikimania is to
close to truly reflect its impact of attending, it needs to be done 6
months after at the earliest.


Digress: It'd be interesting to see a study done that asks the recipients
questions before attending, while there, just after, and 12-18 months to
get an understanding of the impact.

On 24 May 2017 at 22:34, Yongmin H.  wrote:

> Maybe instead of having dedicated pages, they can list the application
> details in the compulsory report, like... as an appendix?
>
> Just thinking,
> --
> Yongmin
> Sent from my iPhone
> https://wp.revi.blog
> Please note that this address is list-only address and any non-mailing
> list mails will be treated as spam.
> Please use https://encrypt.to/0x947f156f16250de39788c3c35b625da5beff197a.
>
> 2017. 5. 24. 23:30 DerHexer  작성:
>
> Sounds good to me. Any other thoughts or recommendations?
>
> Best,
> Martin
>
>
> --
> *Von:* Deryck Chan 
> *An:* DerHexer ; Wikimania general list (open
> subscription) 
> *Gesendet:* 16:18 Mittwoch, 24.Mai 2017
> *Betreff:* Re: [Wikimania-l] Successful scholarship applications
>
> Martin,
>
> That sounds like a good idea. Maybe make it a 3-column wikitable {|-
>
> ! Username ! Link to application details (self-disclosed, optional) ! Link
> to report (compulsory after Wikimania)
> |}
>
> ?
> Deryck
>
>
> On 24 May 2017 at 11:36, DerHexer  wrote:
>
> Thank you very much Deryck,
>
> I'd suggest to add a section to https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Grants:TPS/Wikimania_ scholars
>  for
> example, where all such applications could be linked so that they won't get
> lost in the wikimaniawiki pages. It could also be helpful for future
> reviewers to see what applications were successful the years before, hence
> could be linked on https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Grants:TPS/Wikimania_
> scholars/Reviewer%27s_guide
> 
> as well. What do you think?
>
> Best,
> Martin
>
>
> --
> *Von:* Deryck Chan 
> *An:* Wikimania general list (open subscription)  org >
> *Gesendet:* 12:06 Mittwoch, 24.Mai 2017
> *Betreff:* [Wikimania-l] Successful scholarship applications
>
> It's good that we're discussing the hurdle for someone to get their first
> scholarship to participate in Wikimania. In addition to the suggestions in
> the other thread, I'd like to lead an initiative to help future applicants
> who want their first-ever Wikimania scholarship.
>
> As a successful Wikimania 2017 scholarship applicant, I'm publishing
> on-wiki all my answers to the scholarship application form, except personal
> information:
> https://wikimania2017. wikimedia.org/wiki/User: Deryck_Chan/Scholarship_
> application
> 
>
> I encourage all other successful scholarship applicants to do the same. If
> you kept a draft of your application form, redact any personally
> identifiable information and publish it on wikimania2017wiki. This will
> help future scholarship applicants get a feeling of what the reviewers are
> looking for.
>
> Deryck
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Successful scholarship applications

[Gnangarra]

Thank you for sharing, its never easy to open up about what you put in the
application.  It will do a lot to help others learn from your experiences.


Enjoy your time in Montreal

On 24 May 2017 at 17:59, Deryck Chan  wrote:

> It's good that we're discussing the hurdle for someone to get their first
> scholarship to participate in Wikimania. In addition to the suggestions in
> the other thread, I'd like to lead an initiative to help future applicants
> who want their first-ever Wikimania scholarship.
>
> As a successful Wikimania 2017 scholarship applicant, I'm publishing
> on-wiki all my answers to the scholarship application form, except personal
> information:
> https://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Deryck_Chan/Scholarship_
> application
>
> I encourage all other successful scholarship applicants to do the same. If
> you kept a draft of your application form, redact any personally
> identifiable information and publish it on wikimania2017wiki. This will
> help future scholarship applicants get a feeling of what the reviewers are
> looking for.
>
> Deryck
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Granting Scholarship to same persons every year

[Gnangarra]

​English isnt everyone first language if there had there been no name
mentioned the question would have been dismissed as nonsense. Tto quote the
original email "*This is not personal, I am just using personalities and
scholarships familiar to me"  *this made it clear that it was not directed
at the worthiness of the individual but rather a point of entry to start
the discussion about the process with applicants who have received prior
scholarships.

The initial responses were very clear that by raising the issue this had
under lying implications. I found some of the early comments highly
disturbing in that were effectively preventing what should be discussed
were a lot closer to what I would be identifying bullying.

I agree that starting a fresh discussion on Meta may help but that will
miss many people who could have valuable input both as experienced and
inexperienced  with the process.


On a side note hopeful one the goals from the Strategy process for the
movement is bring discussion information to singular points to capture
wider input, and transparency




On 22 May 2017 at 15:51, Risker  wrote:

> I'm sorry, Pine, but I see no way to have a "civil discussion" when the
> initiator makes it about one single other person. If the originator, after
> having been redirected, had stuck to general comments instead of continuing
> to complain about a single user receiving multiple scholarships, I'd have
> given it a pass.  But the same user's name is mentioned repeatedly (a
> second user is also mentioned in one of the posts), and it is clear that at
> least some of the  allegations being made about the user are not true. (The
> initiator of the thread conceded that after being corrected.)  I am very
> sorry that you do not see this as bullying.  I am very serious when I say
> that, because the fact that you and perhaps others aren't seeing this as a
> form of bullying, specifically naming and shaming, is exactly part of the
> problem that the Wikimedia communities are trying to address, often with
> little success.  This entire conversation could have been held without the
> mention of a single user's name.
>
> Now, the more important point is whether or not anyone is putting their
> suggestions for improvement onwiki.  Of course, part of the problem is that
> it's really unclear where these suggestions should go, or for that matter
> which wiki it should go on; the rules for this round of scholarships is on
> the Wikimania wiki, while the list of successful candidates is on Meta.
> So...Scholarship Committee, where do you want suggestions to go?  Link to a
> particular page please.
>
>
> Risker/Anne
>
>
>
> On 22 May 2017 at 03:26, Pine W  wrote:
>
>>
>> On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Risker  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 21 May 2017 at 20:12, Pine W  wrote:
>>>

 On Sun, May 21, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Risker  wrote:

> I'm sorry, Pinebut no.  It's naming and shaming.  If Praveen had
> wanted to highlight the frequency of Wikimedians being granted Wikimania
> scholarsips, they could have done exactly what Mike Peel did - compare the
> relevant lists and highlight the frequency of users receiving one, two or
> three grants over the four years for which data is available.  That would
> have been - and is - a reasonable point of discussion.  It turns out that
> Praveen's information was incomplete at best, and incorrect at worst.
>

 It's possible that I misread something, but the question that I read in
 Praveen's original email was, "Then, what is the advantage of selecting
 same persons again and again for scholarship? Isn't it better to let more
 different people to share and experience global community?" I don't see how
 citing a specific example amounts to naming and shaming. Unless I'm
 overlooking something, there was an honest question of whether current
 system of selecting awardees should be modified and examples of the
 outcomes of the current award system were provided. I think it is risky to
 read negatively into others' motives, and at this point I don't see
 evidence that would support a view that there was malicious intent in the
 examples being provided. The examples may be uncomfortable, but that's a
 very long way from being malicious.

>>>
>>> I think you may have missed some comments from the later part of the
>>> thread.  I found them highly disturbing.  Frankly, they were disturbing
>>> enough that many other Wikimedians I know would have walked away from the
>>> projects entirely; we cannot afford to allow people to be browbeaten for
>>> being able to demonstrate on a repeated basis that they're productive and
>>> valuable members of our community.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> I find it disturbing that there seemed to be an effort to shut down a
>> discussion when someone raised concerns about 

Re: [Wikimania-l] Granting Scholarship to same persons every year

[Gnangarra]

​Global North/Global South is an unrealistic fallacy ​creates a poor
subdivision of resources it'd be better to see support for emerging and
isolated communities, given that including 2017 this will be the 4th
consecutive Wikimania in North America or Europe

Yes the question could have been better framed, but the question remains as
to how what is put in an application is validated especially when it comes
to community work and impact, where there is a local active community are
questions being asked.  For those that have previously received and
reported after being a recipient what validation processes are there, which
does leave people wondering how someone who is very active isnt getting
through the process while others are.  TPS value is in the sharing of
experiences both while there and with the local community afterwards if
that isnt happening then the TPS is just a free holiday. I've also seen
lots of events with apparent zero or near zero return as well.

Dislosure -

   - I attended Wikimania in 2012 in Washington on a scholarship, learnt
   about QRpedia and started two QR projects here afterwards
   - I attended Wikimania in 2014 in London funded by the WMAU, where I did
   the WMUK training course and spent wikimania sharing the QRpedia experience
   at the village booth.
   - I was invited by the WMF to Mexico in 2015, declined because I had
   committed to working with University students establishing the first
   Indigenous Australian language Wikipedia



On 22 May 2017 at 06:34, Risker  wrote:

> I'm sorry, Pinebut no.  It's naming and shaming.  If Praveen had
> wanted to highlight the frequency of Wikimedians being granted Wikimania
> scholarsips, they could have done exactly what Mike Peel did - compare the
> relevant lists and highlight the frequency of users receiving one, two or
> three grants over the four years for which data is available.  That would
> have been - and is - a reasonable point of discussion.  It turns out that
> Praveen's information was incomplete at best, and incorrect at worst.
>
> It is unfortunate that people have to say "don't trash someone else
> because they got something you didn't".  But that's really what it comes
> down to.  There are a lot of valid discussion points about Wikimania TPS
> grants.  That one specific individual has received more than one of them,
> and someone is implying that the grantee failed to live up to their
> undertaken responsibilities, is not a reasonable way of discussing those
> points.
>
> I'm going to be honest - aside from the issue of multiple grant awards,
> I'm finding that this year's processes are a bit more clear than in
> previous years.  The partial grants, which are worth around 850 USD
> depending on room rates, are a good idea, and allow the recipients to
> select the most suitable means of transportation for them - especially now
> that so many more people are avoiding travel through certain geographic
> locations.[1]
>
> It might be possible, given the number of applicants involved, to provide
> a bit more statistical information; for example, total applicants, number
> who passed Phase 1, number who passed Phase 2 and were ranked, percentage
> of total applicants who received a full or partial grant, etc.  It *might*
> be possible to provide the general information about Global South/Global
> North applicant ratio, but there might be a risk of de-anonymising
> [unsuccessful] applicants when trying to identify number of applications
> and scholarships from each size wiki community.  I think the WMF could
> probably also identify number of people who were awarded grants but could
> not accept them.
>
> Risker/Anne
>
>
> [1] Disclosure - I received a set-dollar partial grant in 2013 - Hong Kong
> - which was supposed to pay for my airfare. However, it took so long to
> confirm the grant that the airfares had doubled from the time they had been
> calculated five months before.I'm still glad I went.
>
> On 21 May 2017 at 17:09, Pine W  wrote:
>
>> Perhaps I have overlooked something, but it seems to me that what has
>> been offered is a specific example, which I would distinguish from "being
>> named and shamed" in the sense that the example is used to illustrate a
>> potential problem -- in this case with the system rather than with an
>> individual, although it's not exactly harassment to report potential
>> misconduct if there was public evidence of such. Let's remember that
>> transparency is something that we value, and keep calm and civil while
>> discussing the situation.
>>
>> Pine
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Granting Scholarship to same persons every year

[Gnangarra]

If there is a general opinion based on facts that the some individuals are
the recipients of a regular scholarship, then that is something that needs
to be discussed.  Unfortunately  to prove the hypothesis that this is
happening there does need to be some presentation of what the basis for
that theory is and that means actually naming individuals otherwise it gets
dismissed as nonsense but in naming, providing the basis the person gets
told  *"**sending emails like this one would certainly in-and-of-itself be
a reason against."  *ensures that no one ever questions the processes.
Well I really dont care anymore if I dont get to go to another Wikimania
I'm going to challenge the process because its seen as having flaws and
that to me needs to addressed.

What I see as the potential reasons for repeated scholarships for the same
person is that

   - they are active, they apply every year
   - they are good communicators and self promoters
   - they have the time capacity to attend every year
   - previous years application arent tested against current
   applications for repetitions
   - each year the applications are judged in isolation that year,...
   - theres no validation of what was claimed in previous reporting to
   actual outcomes
   - the same core group of people put their hand up to make the selections
   every year
   - the criteria isnt sufficiently dynamic between each wikimania to draw
   new applicants to the top


We can dismiss it as jealousy or sour grapes or some other type of gripe.
Alternatively we can ask the questions, is there a basis for the perception
can we do things better...

On 20 May 2017 at 09:48, praveenp  wrote:

> So it is incredibly appropriate to grant scholarship to same person again
> and again? Usually applicant do not complain about this disparity because
> it would immediately branded as their desperation. If we could not speak
> about this, how could we ensure diversity and equality?
> On Saturday 20 May 2017 01:53 AM, LFaraone wrote:
>
> It would be incredibly inappropriate to discuss a specific person's
> eligibility in public like this.
>
> Simply put: people who get scholarships do so according to the published
> selection criteria. People who do not, did not qualify.
>
>
> In my opinion, sending emails like this one would
> certainly in-and-of-itself be a reason against.
>
>
> As a community, if questioning a process leads to disqualification, is not
> a good tendency.  I was the only one sent mails in 2015. Why none of the
> other applicant gets scholarship?
>
> While discussing this without any name, it immediately rebutted as false
> argument. If we use any names, it is inappropriate!
>
>
> On 19 May 2017 at 18:36, praveenp  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have sent a similar email on 2015 [1]
>> ,
>> but I haven't got a clear answer there yet. I simply asked why certain
>> people get Wikimania Scholarship each year, while other applicants rejected
>> repeatedly. I have used a comparison of User:Viswaprabha and myself
>> (User:Praveenp) there.
>>
>> Please note that this email is not about someone going to Wikimanias
>> again and again, it is about granting Wikimania scholarships to same
>> persons again and again. This is not personal, I am just using
>> personalities and scholarships familiar to me. I am sure that, atleast
>> other Indian language communities facing similar problem. I occasionally
>> hear people from other communities mentioning scholarship by terms like
>> "Winkimania Scholarship" or "Wikimania Permanent  Scholarship".
>>
>> From my home wiki community (Malayalam Language Community), only year I
>> remember that User:Viswaprabha didn't recieve the Wikimania scholarship was
>> 2016. I assume that was just because of the thread regarding this issue in
>> 2015. User:Netha Hussain, another user from our premises also get repeating
>> scholarships (not this year), but I am not sure that whether she represents
>> Malayalam Language Community. Frankly, I haven't seen any of these
>> scholarship receivers sharing anything to community in recent years. Then,
>> what is the advantage of selecting same persons again and again for
>> scholarship? Isn't it better to let more different people to share and
>> experience global community?
>>
>> I also wish to share a personal experience of intolerance. I raised the
>> issue in 2015 and then in 2016 I applied scholarship. I didn't even pass
>> "Selection Phase 1"  yesteryear. According to Phase 1 criteria, every
>> serious application must pass to Phase 2. I asked about this to Ellie Young
>> in a reply, which I didn't get a response yet. Ironically, a very similar
>> application by me entered Phase 2 this year!
>>
>> Could someone clarify?
>>
>> [1] - https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimania-l/2015-Jul
>> y/006921.html
>>
>>
>> Praveen Prakash
>>
>> 

Re: [Wikimania-l] WMF Scholarships to attend Wikimania

[Gnangarra]

This has already drawn a lot of opinions but it has yet to actually provide
any substantive reasonings for how releasing details with links to
individuals improve transparency.

The process, reasonings, and results could be released without identifiers
to enable a review of the  process at time later in the year to help people
play with the modeling but putting private details in the public realm
doesnt make the process more transparent nor improve it.  The greater
personal detail the WMF publishes the less likely individuals are going to
be able to participate, especially those in already minority and displaced
segments of society.

every contribution matters, ever contribution is valuable, and every
contribution is different



On 19 April 2017 at 13:15, Dr. U.B. Pavanaja <pavan...@vishvakannada.com>
wrote:

> Dear Subhashish,
>
>
>
> According to you, making noise about your contributions is more important
> than actually doing the things. I have been saying this for quite some time
> – it is always the talkers who get noticed and get credited while doers
> keep doing silently. So one has to be more active in social media, writing
>  blogs, getting mentioned in English media, etc. Thanks for enlightening.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Pavanaja
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Wikimania-l [mailto:wikimania-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Subhashish Panigrahi
> *Sent:* 19 April 2017 10:26 AM
>
> *To:* Wikimania general list (open subscription)
> *Subject:* Re: [Wikimania-l] WMF Scholarships to attend Wikimania
>
>
>
> I too can't agree with Risker more on the privacy aspects. Also, it's
> important to respect those handful of community members that were part of
> the scholarship committee would have spent hours evaluating a few thousand
> applications, and the WMF staff who were part of it. If I can summarize
> what a former committee member shared on Facebook some time ago - a lot of
> deserving Wikimedians do not get a scholarship. But it's almost impossible
> for the committee to make everything right. Also many deserving applicants
> miss out communicating their contribution clearly which doesn't leave the
> committee to evaluate their applications with a full knowledge of those
> applicants' contribution. Being a great contributor is one thing, and being
> able to communicate one's contribution with context to someone less
> familiar with a contributor's home community is another thing. When this
> situation can be made better by creating learning patterns and other
> learning documents so that many contributors, especially those whose native
> language is not English can be benefited, it is NOT OK to share
> awarded/rejected application details. Wikimedians and many others that are
> trying to do the right thing by sharing knowledge are already in risk
> because of their public writing. It will be insane to put them in more
> risk. A former colleague and a fellow Wikimedian and I received legal
> threats once  from someone who was failing to retain a Wikipedia article,
> and it made me scared even though I was working in an organization full of
> lawyers.
>
>
>
> Let's assume some good faith here, and better the  resources that would be
> useful for many applicants for the coming years.
>
> Subhashish
>
>
> On 19-Apr-2017, at 9:42 AM, Adrian Raddatz <ajradd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Agree with what Risker said above, that it's hard to get community members
> to volunteer for these committees. That's the easiest way to get involved
> if you don't think the process is going well.
>
>
> Adrian Raddatz
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 9:04 PM, Risker <risker...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Pavajana, it's the user names that are confidential in this case.  Nothing
> stops unsuccessful candidates from publishing their own names, if they
> wish. How many do you think will do that?
>
> Risker/Anne
>
>
>
> On 18 April 2017 at 23:56, Dr. U.B. Pavanaja <pavan...@vishvakannada.com>
> wrote:
>
> Wikimedia contributions are public numbers. If username is known, all
> contributions can be found out. What is secrecy in that? Only thing not
> disclosed is how the evaluations are done. This should be made public,
> since the entire movement is run by public funding.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Pavanaja
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Wikimania-l [mailto:wikimania-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Gnangarra
> *Sent:* 19 April 2017 09:12 AM
> *To:* Wikimania general list (open subscription)
> *Subject:* Re: [Wikimania-l] WMF Scholarships to attend Wikimania
>
>
>
> Contributions is such wide term are you talking about edits in projects or
> work on the ground in assisting others, what about t

Re: [Wikimania-l] WMF Scholarships to attend Wikimania

[Gnangarra]

Contributions is such wide term are you talking about edits in projects or
work on the ground in assisting others, what about the unseen work like
supporting an affiliate to be successful or a GLAM to open up its resources

When talking about edits is a photo uploaded to commons worth more because
its used in multiple projects than some one who starts an article in one
language, does an english wp edit have a greater weigh over a french wp
edit because it has more potential viewers or does a noongar wp edit in the
incubator which is opening access to a whole new culture and language to
the movement have greater value.

Issue around the fair  balance across communities of access to Wikimania is
also a question does a country with well financed chapter have less to
contribute compared to a country closer but limited finanaces, does a
counrty where it'll cost 5-10,000 US$ for each attendee deserve greater
numbers supported because its not possible for people to attend over a
country that the cost is less than US$1000, would 10 people attending be
better than 1 person attending.

Does a country with 20 million people deserve to 1/10th the amount of
attendees of a country with 200million people. Every one contributes in the
way they feel most comfortable and safe. For some time is unlimited for
others time contributing is a constant risk there is no way we as community
can openly value these, the committee does the best it can with the
knowledge presented to them by the candidates   Whether we agree with
the decisions of the committee or not the individuals should not be subject
to the vitriol that the community can and does hand out regularly nor
should they be put at excessive risk for what they have done.

A list of everyone who accepts a scholarship enables transparency in
ensuring reporting from those people, but even that can carry a risk for
them. Putting contributions how ever its defined increases the risk of harm
both from within the community and from outside, doing harm to satisfy
curiosity isnt acceptable



On 19 April 2017 at 10:51, Dr. U.B. Pavanaja 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
>
>
> I would like WMF to make the list of applicants, their contributions, the
> weightage used for each kind of contribution and the final list of
> scholarship awardees in a table form. Since WMF is run by the contributions
> of the volunteers, such a transparency is definitely needed from WMF. I
> hope WMF will oblige.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Pavanaja
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Wikimania-l [mailto:wikimania-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Ellie Young
> *Sent:* 19 April 2017 01:23 AM
> *To:* Wikimania general list (open subscription)
> *Subject:* [Wikimania-l] WMF Scholarships to attend Wikimania
>
>
>
> Everyone who applied for a scholarship to Wikimania '17 has been notified
> about the status.   If you have not heard, please check your spam filter,
> or send email to ask about the status to:   wikimaniascholarships@
> wikimedia.org
>
>
>
> April 18 is the deadline for people who were offered a scholarship to
> respond.
>
>
>
> A final list of everyone who was awarded and able to accept will be posted
> to on the wiki in early May.
>
>
>
> We expect registration for Wikimania '17 to go live on or before May 1st.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Ellie Young
>
> Events Manager
>
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> eyo...@wikimedia.org
>
> ​
>
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>


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Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2017 call for submissions

[Gnangarra]

not an opinion of Chris or his presentation for which I have no idea.
its a comment on the COI position and practicalities


If Chris has to recuse himself from the decision about his presentation
because of a COI would he not also have to recuse himself from decisions on
the other presentations for the same COI in that he would benefit from them
being declined...

A Conflict Of Interest has two methods of attainment

   1.  by achieving a direct positive outcome
   2.  by achieving a negative outcome for the competition, thus
   engineering a positive outcome




On 15 February 2017 at 09:54, Takashi OTA 
wrote:

> Hi Chris,
>
> From my earlier experience of Wikimania Program Commitee, you can still
> submit a presentation even if you were a member of PC.
> In that case, you can exclude yourself from the decision of your
> presentation as "Conflict of Interest".
>
> Hopes it helps,
>
> --Takashi Ota [[U:Takot]]
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 10:35 cs  wrote:
>
>> OK, but  do  let  me know because while I  fully  appreciate  that  if I
>>  am  on  the Committee I  will  recuse myself from  making  a presentation
>> submission, If I’m  not  on  the Committee I  will  make a submission, but
>>  I  believe my  priority  is being  on  the Commission if possible. My
>>  presentation  is not  a priority.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On 15Feb, 2017, at 08:17, cs  wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Do  I  understand from  this that  the Sumbission  Committe has been
>> composed?  From  your  earlier communication  I  would have thoght  that
>>  candidates for the committee would have been notified. Have I  missed an
>> email?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On 14Feb, 2017, at 22:10, phoebe ayers  wrote:
>>
>> All,
>> I'm very pleased to send out the Wikimania Montréal Call for Submissions,
>> which can be found in French here:
>> https://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/fr
>> and in English here:
>> https://wikimania2017.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/en
>>
>> On behalf of the Wikimania programme committee,
>> Phoebe Ayers
>> -
>>
>> Que vous soyez un membre de la communauté de l’un des projets Wikimédia
>> (tels que Wikipédia, Wikibooks, Wikidata, Wikisource, Wikinews, Wikimedia
>> Commons, Wiktionnaire, MediaWiki ou autres), un créateur de contenu libre
>> ou un consommateur, nous recevrons avec plaisir votre proposition pour une
>> session lors de Wikimania 2017.
>>
>> *dates importantes*
>>
>> Appel aux propositions ouvert : 2 février 2017
>> Date limite de soumission des présentations (conférence, panneau, table
>> ronde et atelier) : 30 mars 2017
>> Date limite de soumission des brefs exposés, affiches et réunions
>> d’oiseaux de la même plume : 15 mai 2017.
>> Notification d’acceptation des présentations : 20 avril 2017
>> Notification d’acceptation des brefs exposés, affiches et réunions
>> d’oiseaux de la même plume : 10 juin 2017
>>
>> *Types de soumissions & Comment soumettre: *https://wikimania2017.
>> wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/fr
>>
>> *Des questions ?* Merci de contacter le Comité du programme par
>> wikimania-program(à)wikimedia.org.
>>
>> 
>>
>> Whether you are a community member of one of the Wikimedia projects (such
>> as Wikipedia, Wikibooks, Wikidata, Wikisource, Wikinews, Wikimedia Commons,
>> Wiktionary, MediaWiki or others), or a fellow open content creator or
>> consumer, we welcome your proposal for a session at Wikimania 2017.
>>
>> *Important dates*
>>
>> Call for proposals opens: February 2, 2017
>> Deadline for submitting presentation (lecture, panel, roundtable and
>> workshop) submissions: March 30, 2017
>> Deadline for submitting lightning talks, poster, and birds of a feather
>> submissions: May 15, 2017
>> Notification of acceptance for presentations: April 20, 2017
>> Notification of acceptance for lightning talks, poster and birds of a
>> feather submissions: June 10, 2017
>>
>> *Submission types & how to submit:* https://wikimania2017.
>> wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/en
>>
>> *Any questions?* Please contact the Programme Committee at
>> wikimania-program at wikimedia.org
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>>
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>>
>
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Photo 

Re: [Wikimania-l] Wiki (not) Mania?

[Gnangarra]

English as a language isnt bound by right and wrong. the language, the
meanings. words evolve English absorbs and adapts from other languages.,
even within English speakers there are differences in meaning, uses and
spellings.

The other issue is one that will never be perfect for all case that is in
the translation between languages that is because the structures of
languages differ, the way in which words are built differ.  We have about
300 active language projects not every language has a direct translation
for "mania"  or even a single word that would describe the intent of
"mania" in its current context which is a gathering, a conference, a
corroboree    in the end its not
what the parts of the word mean its how we as a community chose to define
what the whole of Wikimania means.

On 18 December 2016 at 05:04, Gordon Joly  wrote:

> On 07/11/16 14:50, Lodewijk wrote:
> > The question would also be:
> > - is this a significant problem
>
> Yes, I still think this is an issue, since it shows a lack of clarity
> and correctness in the use of a term in the English language. Below is
> another example of where a term in the field of mental illness is not
> well understood, in this case by Piers Morgan.
>
> Guardian, Thursday 15 December 2016 12.53 GMT
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/15/
> piers-morgan-ptsd-lady-gaga-post-traumatic-stress-disorder-soldiers
>
> https://v.gd/9zNPFF
>
> **quote
>
> Lady Gaga has told how she was raped at the age of 19 by a man 20 years
> her senior. “I suffer from PTSD,” she said in a Today show interview on
> the US network NBC. “I’ve never told anyone that before.” On Saturday,
> on Twitter, Piers Morgan tweeted a CNN piece headlined “Lady Gaga: ‘I
> have PTSD’” with his response: “No, soldiers returning from battlefields
> do. Enough of this vain-glorious nonsense.” He followed this with
> another tweet to his 5.3 million followers – “I come from a big military
> family. It angers me when celebrities start claiming ‘PTSD’ about
> everything to promote themselves”
>
> quote**
>
> Gordo
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Wiki (not) Mania?

[Gnangarra]

Not trying to diminish the value of any project nor prevent cross
connections between the communities, I just thinking of alternative ways to
grow every project and to value each ones unique identity

I see Wikidata growing as force of its own and some ways over shadowing
Wikipedia and attracting a whole different set of contributor, audience and
end users. From my experience with WikiData Tour Downunder we did see a
different group of interested parties in the project and its potential.

https://wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Wikidata_Tour_Down_Under#Outcomes


By individualising project focus events we would create new opportunities
and help further strengthen those communities, and yes these would still
run multiple sessions including coverage of other projects. They would also
be able to refine the scholarships to ensure that better outcomes could be
achieved

On 8 November 2016 at 15:16, Andrew Lih <and...@andrewlih.com> wrote:

> GN,
>
> While I understand where you are coming from (ie. Wikipedia as the more
> recognizable name to the public) it would seem to be a poor time to portray
> the gathering as just Wikipedia-centric, especially with the rise of
> Wikidata as a major force in more things we are doing, such as Wikimedia
> Commons.
>
> The best solution may be somewhere in the middle, where conference adopts
> a subtitle that includes “Wikipedia” prominently, in order to make it more
> SEO friendly.
>
> -Andrew
>
>
> -Andrew Lih
> Associate professor of journalism, American University
> Email: and...@andrewlih.com
> WEB: http://www.andrewlih.com
> BOOK: The Wikipedia Revolution: http://www.wikipediarevolution.com
> PROJECT: Wiki Makes Video http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wiki_Makes_Video
>
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 7:07 PM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> To quote C. Scott Ananian
>>
>>> I have no idea how to concisely include all the "Wikimedia projects" and
>>> still mention "Wikipedia" in the title... which suggests perhaps that Ed's
>>> version ("Wikimania: the global wikipedia summit") or whatever
>>> subtitle Lodewijk used isn't too far off.
>>
>>
>> maybe we are missing the target altogether, Wikipedia is our most
>> identifiable brand, its what started the whole game and every other project
>> in someway supports it. The bulk of all talks at Wikimanias are focused on
>> Wikipedia activity.  It could it be that when talk about reducing the size
>> of Wikimania we could look in an alternative direction and focus on
>> individual projects, the hack-a-thon has become a separate identity
>> already, wikisource has held it own. This isnt saying that the conference
>> wouldnt cover or cater for other projects as it already does but it would
>> give us something broader to sell to the sponsors, venues etc by calling it
>> the Wikipedia Conference it could then focus on the 300 languages, the work
>> in the incubator, it would also create a greater immediate impact
>> externally and encourage more people to come learn more and get involved,
>> it'd be sellable to GLAM and media alike... Every one would have the
>> ability to focus on the local language as a key platform
>>
>> The Wikimedia Conference could then remain maybe even be expanded to
>> enable more attendees focused as it already is on the movement
>>
>> A Commons conference would be media based looking more at copyright,
>> personality rights even equipment which would open us to whole new world of
>> sponsors  Imagine the people who could be a Key note speaker at a Commons
>> conference that would otherwise bore the pants off every other attendee at
>> a Wikimania.
>>
>> each and every conference would run at its own rate annually,
>> bi-annually, even one in four years choose locations that suit its own aims
>> with scholarships for those that the community would really benefit from
>> attending
>>
>> Every conference would have cross over streams as no one project is
>> isolated from any other, it would expand the focus and diverisfy the
>> funding/sponsorship opportunities while addressing some of the key issues
>> about the size of Wikimania, the way some sections of the community are
>> lost and allow greater return on the brand identities of each project.
>>
>> On 8 November 2016 at 07:04, C. Scott Ananian <canan...@wikimedia.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Again, "Wiki" means "wikileaks" to many folks these days.
>>>  "Wikiconference" isn't enough to distinguish wikipedia from wikileaks.
>>> And there are plenty of examples of wiki software other than

Re: [Wikimania-l] Wiki (not) Mania?

[Gnangarra]

To quote C. Scott Ananian

> I have no idea how to concisely include all the "Wikimedia projects" and
> still mention "Wikipedia" in the title... which suggests perhaps that Ed's
> version ("Wikimania: the global wikipedia summit") or whatever
> subtitle Lodewijk used isn't too far off.


maybe we are missing the target altogether, Wikipedia is our most
identifiable brand, its what started the whole game and every other project
in someway supports it. The bulk of all talks at Wikimanias are focused on
Wikipedia activity.  It could it be that when talk about reducing the size
of Wikimania we could look in an alternative direction and focus on
individual projects, the hack-a-thon has become a separate identity
already, wikisource has held it own. This isnt saying that the conference
wouldnt cover or cater for other projects as it already does but it would
give us something broader to sell to the sponsors, venues etc by calling it
the Wikipedia Conference it could then focus on the 300 languages, the work
in the incubator, it would also create a greater immediate impact
externally and encourage more people to come learn more and get involved,
it'd be sellable to GLAM and media alike... Every one would have the
ability to focus on the local language as a key platform

The Wikimedia Conference could then remain maybe even be expanded to enable
more attendees focused as it already is on the movement

A Commons conference would be media based looking more at copyright,
personality rights even equipment which would open us to whole new world of
sponsors  Imagine the people who could be a Key note speaker at a Commons
conference that would otherwise bore the pants off every other attendee at
a Wikimania.

each and every conference would run at its own rate annually, bi-annually,
even one in four years choose locations that suit its own aims with
scholarships for those that the community would really benefit from
attending

Every conference would have cross over streams as no one project is
isolated from any other, it would expand the focus and diverisfy the
funding/sponsorship opportunities while addressing some of the key issues
about the size of Wikimania, the way some sections of the community are
lost and allow greater return on the brand identities of each project.

On 8 November 2016 at 07:04, C. Scott Ananian 
wrote:

> Again, "Wiki" means "wikileaks" to many folks these days.
>  "Wikiconference" isn't enough to distinguish wikipedia from wikileaks.
> And there are plenty of examples of wiki software other than mediawiki...
>
> If we're going to change the name (or add an official subtitle), IMNSHO
> "Wikipedia" needs to be somewhere in there, spelled out in full.  That's
> what we're most known for.
>   --scott
>
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 4:23 PM, olatunde olalekan isaac <
> reachout2is...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps something like "WikiConference 2017".
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Isaac
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 10:13 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) > > wrote:
>>
>>> Olatunde Isaac, 07/11/2016 21:47:
>>>
 Thus, it would be more appropriate to use a title known to the general
 public.

>>>
>>> Like... a title that contains "wiki" plus some other catchy suffix? ;-)
>>>
>>> Nemo
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
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> (http://cscott.net)
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] A Wikimania journal

[Gnangarra]

Its not something that a volunteer could be expected to manage as it would
need a dedicated person with resources to follow up with those involved and
collate all the information

I would see it as something done by the WMF either by their Wikimania team
or the media team given the WMF already do a fair portion now for
reporting, realising that it would  probably 6 months to year finish, even
then it wouldnt capture all the benefits which take even longer to
materialise. Once published the Wikimania wiki could be closed down.  The
audience is the community, as well as those looking to be involved in a
wikimania in the future also anyone that wants to see how international
events are organised and our donars.



On 22 October 2016 at 18:09, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> wrote:

> Hey Gnagarra,
>
> (changing topics here as we're going on a tangent)
> in an attempt to avoid/limit additional work for organizers that are
> totally worn out at the end of a cycle:
> - What would be your intended use for such document/journal?
> - What would be the intended readership
> - Would you imagine volunteering to organize such journal, even if you're
> not on the organizing team? After all, anyone could collect such
> information together.
>
> Best,
> Lodewijk
>
> 2016-10-22 12:06 GMT+02:00 Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com>:
>
>> It would be nice to see past events wrapped up into one journal covering
>> all aspects from original discussion until the final reporting of the event
>> including financials, attendee reports and media reports at the moment
>> everything is spread across chapter, foundation, event pages which means
>> lessons, pitfalls, successes, the work involved over time arent where
>> people can find easily
>>
>> On 22 October 2016 at 17:56, rupert THURNER <rupert.thur...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> the points lodewijk mentioned with styles, and independent user groups
>>> working on it are quite valid points imo. additionally the purpose of a
>>> wiki is to collaborate on a purpose. if the purpose is gone, no wiki
>>> software is necessary. following that logic, one could argue to dump a past
>>> wikimania wiki into a static html page is best. search could be done via
>>> standard web search. if the wikis are not disturbing one could let them
>>> just sit where they are.
>>>
>>> rupert
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The discussion has now been moved to https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>>> wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#Wikimania_wikis apparently, where it will
>>>> probably also get archived not too distant in the future. I hope someone
>>>> will post a link here to that archive page.
>>>>
>>>> Lodewijk
>>>>
>>>> 2016-10-22 11:07 GMT+02:00 Rehman Abubakr <rehman.wikime...@live.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> (cross-posting to Wikimania-l and Wikimedia-l)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As earlier discussions on this topic received relatively little
>>>>> response from the community, I'm sending this email to let you know about
>>>>> the new topic posted at https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>>>> wiki/Meta:Babel#Wikimania_wikis, with regards to having a single
>>>>> unified Wikimania wiki.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have copied the original post below for ease of reading. Please post
>>>>> your comments on the meta page.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> **
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi. I was looking at Special:SiteMatrix
>>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:SiteMatrix> and couldn't
>>>>> help noticing the whopping 14 separate wikis (and growing) for all the
>>>>> different Wikimanias, including a separate wiki for a "Wikimania team". Is
>>>>> there any current plans of a more sustainable or streamlined approach to
>>>>> running these wikis?
>>>>>
>>>>> I am aware that this has been discussed a few times before, but no
>>>>> significant effort was put into it. Wikimania project domain
>>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_project_domain> is the
>>>>> most significant discussion which I could find, but participation was 
>>>>> quite
>>>>> low on that, with no(?) WMF staff comments.
>>>>>
>>>>&g

Re: [Wikimania-l] Unified Wikimania wiki

[Gnangarra]

It would be nice to see past events wrapped up into one journal covering
all aspects from original discussion until the final reporting of the event
including financials, attendee reports and media reports at the moment
everything is spread across chapter, foundation, event pages which means
lessons, pitfalls, successes, the work involved over time arent where
people can find easily

On 22 October 2016 at 17:56, rupert THURNER 
wrote:

> the points lodewijk mentioned with styles, and independent user groups
> working on it are quite valid points imo. additionally the purpose of a
> wiki is to collaborate on a purpose. if the purpose is gone, no wiki
> software is necessary. following that logic, one could argue to dump a past
> wikimania wiki into a static html page is best. search could be done via
> standard web search. if the wikis are not disturbing one could let them
> just sit where they are.
>
> rupert
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Lodewijk 
> wrote:
>
>> The discussion has now been moved to https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Wikimedia_Forum#Wikimania_wikis apparently, where it will probably
>> also get archived not too distant in the future. I hope someone will post a
>> link here to that archive page.
>>
>> Lodewijk
>>
>> 2016-10-22 11:07 GMT+02:00 Rehman Abubakr :
>>
>>> (cross-posting to Wikimania-l and Wikimedia-l)
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>> As earlier discussions on this topic received relatively little response
>>> from the community, I'm sending this email to let you know about the new
>>> topic posted at https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>>> wiki/Meta:Babel#Wikimania_wikis, with regards to having a single
>>> unified Wikimania wiki.
>>>
>>> I have copied the original post below for ease of reading. Please post
>>> your comments on the meta page.
>>>
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>> Hi. I was looking at Special:SiteMatrix
>>>  and couldn't help
>>> noticing the whopping 14 separate wikis (and growing) for all the different
>>> Wikimanias, including a separate wiki for a "Wikimania team". Is there any
>>> current plans of a more sustainable or streamlined approach to running
>>> these wikis?
>>>
>>> I am aware that this has been discussed a few times before, but no
>>> significant effort was put into it. Wikimania project domain
>>>  is the most
>>> significant discussion which I could find, but participation was quite low
>>> on that, with no(?) WMF staff comments.
>>>
>>> From what I understand from the above linked discussion, some key points
>>> against a unified Wikimania wiki was that:
>>>
>>> 1. We will not be able to preserve old Wikimania wikis as a "time
>>> capsule"
>>> 2. Older Wikimania organizers may face new organizers "steamrolling"
>>> over their pages
>>> 3. Organizers will not have complete control over the site as old admins
>>> might interrupt for whatever reasons. (or vice versa)
>>>
>>> My though for these points was:
>>>
>>> 1. Why not have each Wikimania project branch their pages as
>>> wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2016/Main page, or alternatively, have
>>> separate namespaces for each project (i.e. 2016:, 2017:, etc). We could
>>> then protect all pages under a project (i.e. 2016/ or 2016:) once a project
>>> is over.
>>> 2. This could be avoided by protection, as stated above.
>>> 3. Make it much less complicated. Once the project is over, all previous
>>> admin rights will be revoked, and the new organizers will get the rights.
>>> New admins can be advise to not modify previous project namespaces, or if
>>> better, if we can block previous projects' namespaces from editing?
>>> Furthermore, there could be a bot logging all changes made to old project
>>> namespaces, for transparency.
>>>
>>> Is there any other views on this? Did I miss something obvious? Looking
>>> forward to your comments. Cheers, Rehman.
>>>
>>> **
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>
>>> User:Rehman 
>>>
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>>>
>>
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
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>


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Re: [Wikimania-l] Future Wikimanias

[Gnangarra]

Visa arent an issue everyone can get them online, except for those people
from North Korea and currently those travelling under some UN passports
 due to a technical issue.

We have public transport system that works its nothing flash though a
definate must do experience for the adventurist people.  Perth has lovely
weather despite it being winter here in July/August you might get to
experience some rain event then its bound to interrupted by sunshine with
temperatures between 14-20 degrees Celsius though the warmer days are when
it'll be raining.  Withe sunshine will be clear skys at night so there will
ample opportnity to view the southern night skys, short trip out side the
city lights will let see the milkyway in all its majesty.

Western Australia does have its and few other places share of sharks,
spirders, snakes(not so many in winter), blue ringed octopus, box
jellyfish(in winter its too cold for them as well), crocodiles but they
arent normally found close to Perth. Then there are the drop bears which
can be a bit sneaky during the cold months as they look for warm places to
hide, there also the Bulyits a distant relative of the bunyip known for
luring children away from the swimming holes and camp fires

Kangaroos are every where even on the backs of our coins, we'll be able to
find a few for those want to see them, and Perth is also home to the
happiest animal on the planet the Quokka.

History wise if you look at the written books we are only a couple of
hundred years old, but in reality WA is home to one of the oldest continual
cultures in the world

Perth will be more than a destination, it'll be journey of adventure,  into
the past of a truly ancient land.

so ends this tale of tourism and adventure stay tune for next weeks episode
on fresh foods, wines and ales that will delight your senses even more


On 17 October 2016 at 17:27, cs  wrote:

> There are very few  countries that need a visa for visiting Thailand for
> up to 15 days and the nationals of most Western countries can stay for 30.
> This is a simple stamp in the passport on arrival although if you just got
> off a A380 it might take you 10 minutes queuing at the immigration desks.
> Members of ASEAN countries have even greater benefits (a bit like EU
> borders - oops! Should I have said that?)
>
> Ultra modern mass rapid transport (overhead and subway trains) make
> transfer from the airport to the centre of downtown a doddle and extremely
> uncomplicated at not more than 20 minutes and just over a dollar or two for
> a ride; a taxi costs only 10 dollars so 4 sharing is even cheaper than the
> railway or the bus.
> Signage everywhere in Thailand is in English, even in the tiniest rural
> villages. Plenty of facilities everywhere for people of reduced mobility
> (ramps everywhere for wheelchairs, special toilets, etc.). Most people
> under 30 can speak enough English to point you in the wrong direction.
>
> Despite the silly reports in the Lonely Planet, BKK is
> an extraordinarily safe city, no mugging, and hardly any pickpocketing.
> Most petty crime is done by the foreign tourists themselves.
>
> Transport  in town by proper air conditioned taxis or the touristy
> tuk-tuks (motorcycle rickshaws for the more adventurous) costs only 2 - 4
> dollars for a ride that in a black cab in London would cost over 20 quid.
>
> Road traffic in the city is dense, but not as bad as central Berlin,
> London, Manhattan, Paris, or Marseille. In fact I don’t mind driving around
> it at all. Helps to know where you are going though (but I do, and I know
> the shortcuts through the back alleys).
>
> Unlike DC, Hong Kong, or Esino, a compact venue with a very short walking
> distance to/from accommodation and reasonable eating places is absolutely
> no problem. Everything is flat and there are no hills (no collapsing in the
> street from asthma attacks like on the steep slopes in the rare air of
> Esino Lario) Something like the government Chulalongkorn University 
> (Thailand’s
> Oxbridge) campus is right  in the middle of town and there are budget
> hotels up every alley.
>
> For those who feel they must  exploit the conference  for some sight
> seeing, BKK is a hugely fascinating city. Even has what I believe is the
> world’s largest shopping mall (Panthip Plaza) dedicated entirely to  IT.
> Fast river and canal boat-busses also provide a dense transportation
> network in and around the city and suburbs (only 20 mins from the
> backpacker ghetto (rooms from 4 quid a night) in Banglamphu district to
>  Siam Square, the downtown epicentre.
>
> Tourism speech over.
>
> Kudpung
>
> On 17Oct, 2016, at 15:15, WereSpielChequers 
> wrote:
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> That sounds like a really good option for 2018 or later, especially when
> you consider how open Thailand is for visitors.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_Thailand
>
> Also it would be the first Wikimania in the far East for five years.
>
> 

Re: [Wikimania-l] [Wikimania Committee] Wikimania 2018

[Gnangarra]

thanks that seams to work, its now awaiting moderator approval

On 24 July 2016 at 10:38, Joseph Fox <josephfoxw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Gnangarra - perhaps it should be wikimania-...@lists.wikimedia.org ?
>
> On Sun, 24 Jul 2016 at 01:27 Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> well tried to submit Perth bid to the email supplied and the response was;
>>
>> Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:
>>
>>  wikimania-...@wikimedia.org
>>
>> Technical details of permanent failure:
>> Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the server
>> for the recipient domain wikimedia.org by mx1001.wikimedia.org.
>> [2620:0:861:3:208:80:154:76].
>>
>> The error that the other server returned was:
>> 550 Address wikimania-...@wikimedia.org does not exist
>>
>> On 24 July 2016 at 06:47, Dariusz Jemielniak <dar...@alk.edu.pl> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 6:43 PM, Florence Devouard <fdevou...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> We have listened to a lot of community members, both those present at
>>>> Wikimania 2016 and more widely, and decided overall that, given there was
>>>> strong desire for holding Wikimania every year, we should continue to do
>>>> so. This means that we need to pick a team and location for hosting
>>>> Wikimania in July/August 2018 soon.
>>>
>>>
>>> One word: wow!!!
>>>
>>> dariusz
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> GN.
>> President Wikimedia Australia
>> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
>> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
>>
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
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>
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>


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Re: [Wikimania-l] [Wikimania Committee] Wikimania 2018

[Gnangarra]

well tried to submit Perth bid to the email supplied and the response was;

Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:

 wikimania-...@wikimedia.org

Technical details of permanent failure:
Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the server for
the recipient domain wikimedia.org by mx1001.wikimedia.org.
[2620:0:861:3:208:80:154:76].

The error that the other server returned was:
550 Address wikimania-...@wikimedia.org does not exist

On 24 July 2016 at 06:47, Dariusz Jemielniak  wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 6:43 PM, Florence Devouard 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> We have listened to a lot of community members, both those present at
>> Wikimania 2016 and more widely, and decided overall that, given there was
>> strong desire for holding Wikimania every year, we should continue to do
>> so. This means that we need to pick a team and location for hosting
>> Wikimania in July/August 2018 soon.
>
>
> One word: wow!!!
>
> dariusz
>
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>


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Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania - annually, with South Africa in 2018?

[Gnangarra]

Volunteer are not just  precious they are the essential component both
during planning and during the event itself, also with that goes the desire
to put that effort in. WMF Staff, Affiliate Staff and Contractors while
necessary are paid its something that can be augmented as needed but not
volunteers, that means also consideration of the energy within a community
to host the event.

We should be expecting a real professional approach from those paid to make
this happen, for the WMF to hire skill conference people to do that work,
its these skilled people that ensure the processes reflect needs, improve
the outcomes and critically builds on established successes. By the time
Montreal opens, 2018 should be signed sealed and ready to go with 2019
being finalised, venues booked and contracts on the table.

after 10 years the basic frame work is there, there are common things and
physical needs that occur every Wikimania;

   - Venue capacity
  - 1000-2500 seat auditorium - open & close, key talks
  - 4 larger theatre type rooms - specific talks
  - 6-10 smaller rooms - discussion and minor talks
  - larger communal area, WikiVillage, meal area and general open space
  to congregate
  - WiFi capacity
   - Venue location(within City)
  - central with good access
  - close to accommodation(or good connectioning services)
   - Scholarships
  - 100-200 people
  - full vs partial
  - visa needs
   - City
  - International Airport with sufficient connections (In USA, EU rail
  connection)
  - sufficient accommodation

even the basic give away gumf (bag t shirts, usb stickers, pins, pens) are
kind of consistent they just change to suit the logo. The registration is
the same, media passes, speakers passes.  The WMF could even go into longer
term sponsorship for the event, there would also some legal and contractual
issue that the WMF would be better suited to manage, WMF employees would
chair/co-chair the associated committees

The locals focus on

   - Theme
   - catering
   - volunteers on site
  - meet & greet at transport hubs
   - local media
   - local sponsorship
   - external activities




On 17 July 2016 at 14:31, Pine W  wrote:

> Another committee to add to Chris' list is the Scholarship Committee.
>
> I'd be interested in knowing the number of volunteer, contractor, and WMF
> and affiliate staff hours that are involved in Wikimania from start to
> finish, and having some thoughtful consideration of ways to increase
> efficiency as well as effectiveness and alignment. I believe that
> Christophe is thinking along these lines for WMF staff time; I would
> suggest including affiliate staff, contractor, and volunteer time in the
> list of considerations. I consider volunteer time to be particularly
> precious.
>
> Pine
>
> On Jul 16, 2016 11:23, "Chris Keating"  wrote:
>
>> Well this thread turned out bigger (and much more productive) than I
>> expected!
>>
>> To my mind, Wikimania continuing to happen every year is a minor miracle,
>> and one that's only possible with the hard work and dedication of lots of
>> people.
>>
>> However, it's a miracle that isn't without its problems. The most obvious
>> problem to my mind is that there is a very mixed quality of actual
>> conference programme, and without clear objectives (or at least not
>> consistent objectives). The Wikimedia Conference, by contrast, has a much
>> clearer alignment of the programme with a set of goals, and work happens to
>> follow up before and after the conference.
>>
>> The second problem is that the responsibilities for governance and
>> management of the conference are really very unclear. We have the Wikimania
>> Committee, we have the local team (and in some cases a local chapter who
>> may or may not be working closely with the bid team), we have the Programme
>> Committee and we have the WMF. (Actually we have the WMF at least twice, as
>> the priorities of the WMF team involved in organising the conference don't
>> always seem to align with those of the rest of the organisation).
>>
>> In my view, the most useful thing for all these groups to do is to work
>> out who is actually responsible for what, and document it, in public.
>>
>> Chris
>>
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>>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania - annually, with South Africa in 2018?

[Gnangarra]

nswer to these four are yes
>>
>>- ​Yes its a community event, one that brings people together and
>>empowers them
>>- Yes it where we share  the lessons of our successes and failures​
>>
>>- Yes reaches out to local region, especially GLAM for them to see
>>what can be achieved, it also attracts a media profile and put the ED,
>>Borad and others within reach of potential sponsors
>>- Yes the scholarship process has an element of reward for
>>participation in that it requires people to be sufficiently active to be
>>considered
>>
>> ​
>>
>>
>>> ​
>>>
>>>
>> On 10 July 2016 at 14:05, Christophe Henner <chen...@wikimedia.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey,
>>>
>>> So, as with everything, Wikimania is going through a process where we
>>> (as à group) will define if it pushes our mission forward or not.
>>>
>>> First, WMF staff working so we can have the discussion with all the
>>> cards in our hands. Which is not the case now.
>>>
>>> Second, what is Wikimania purposes? Right now I fear there is none
>>> clearly define.
>>>
>>> Is it a community event?
>>> Is it a knowledge sharing event?
>>> Is it an outreaching event?
>>> Is it a way to reward people?
>>> ...
>>>
>>> One has to be define, a main one.
>>>
>>> Then we will be able to talk about how it happens.
>>>
>>> I have opinions but I rather keep them to myself until I have everything
>>> in hand. But I love Wikimania, and I want to know if it's the best format,
>>> and if it's not to fix it :)
>>> Le 10 juil. 2016 4:37 AM, "Gnangarra" <gnanga...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>>>
>>>> Agree with the comments thats hard to measure the value of a Wikimania,
>>>> and what an attendee will do with the experience. so here is my experience
>>>>
>>>> My first Wikimania was 2012 in Washington DC, I was a little
>>>> introspective and embroiled in an ARBCOM case I shared a room with Richard
>>>> Farmbrough with whom I had a deep discussion about the case he gave me some
>>>> amazing advice about that process it literally reenergises my efforts...
>>>> While doing so he recommended a session about QRpedia, a really interesting
>>>> project.  Two months later I'm back home and still editing when an
>>>> opportunity presents itself to propose a QRpedia project in Fremantle, that
>>>> produced the first Wikitown in Australia.  The Freopedia project as it
>>>> became known opened the door to another WikiTown project in Toodyay called
>>>> Toodyaypedia,  Next minute I'm nominated for a State Heritage award for the
>>>> work I've been doing through Wikipedia and the out reach projects that have
>>>> improved coverage of Western Australian History more doors start to open.
>>>> I'm on a roll really energised and its rubbing off on the local community
>>>> they willingly helping with every silly idea I try, so much so that I get
>>>> nominated to be a committee member(Vice President no less) of the local
>>>> chapter. London 2014 Wikimedia Australia pays for me to attend London where
>>>> I give back to the community my experiences and share my experiences about
>>>> WikiTowns/QRpedia(along with a few Tim Tams and Caramellow Koalas) in the
>>>> community village. Also while in London I got to attended a pre-wikimania
>>>> training session by WMUK that they offer to people doing outreach that was
>>>> a wonderful experience and helped me improve the way I do outreach 
>>>> here,[*side
>>>> thought:that should be taken on the road to every chapter who does or wants
>>>> to do outreach*].
>>>>
>>>> I return even more enrgise and what to bring the Wikimania experience
>>>> here where more even more people can benefit directly rather than just
>>>> through my efforts. 2015 I'm presented with another opportunity to expand
>>>> the projects happening here this time writing in an Indigenous Australian
>>>> language and improving content about a subject area thats has been
>>>> inadeqautely covered for the first 10years of wikipedia.  Along come an
>>>> offer from WMF to attend Mexico I'm torn between my commitment to the
>>>> Noongar Language work which included a workshop that coincided with
>>>> Wikimania and the opportunity to attend

Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania - annually, with South Africa in 2018?

[Gnangarra]

>
> ​
> Is it a community event?

Is it a knowledge sharing event?
Is it an outreaching event?

> Is it a way to reward people?
>

​The answer to these four are yes

   - ​Yes its a community event, one that brings people together and
   empowers them
   - Yes it where we share  the lessons of our successes and failures​

   - Yes reaches out to local region, especially GLAM for them to see what
   can be achieved, it also attracts a media profile and put the ED, Borad and
   others within reach of potential sponsors
   - Yes the scholarship process has an element of reward for participation
   in that it requires people to be sufficiently active to be considered

​


> ​
>
>
On 10 July 2016 at 14:05, Christophe Henner <chen...@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hey,
>
> So, as with everything, Wikimania is going through a process where we (as
> à group) will define if it pushes our mission forward or not.
>
> First, WMF staff working so we can have the discussion with all the cards
> in our hands. Which is not the case now.
>
> Second, what is Wikimania purposes? Right now I fear there is none clearly
> define.
>
> Is it a community event?
> Is it a knowledge sharing event?
> Is it an outreaching event?
> Is it a way to reward people?
> ...
>
> One has to be define, a main one.
>
> Then we will be able to talk about how it happens.
>
> I have opinions but I rather keep them to myself until I have everything
> in hand. But I love Wikimania, and I want to know if it's the best format,
> and if it's not to fix it :)
> Le 10 juil. 2016 4:37 AM, "Gnangarra" <gnanga...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
>> Agree with the comments thats hard to measure the value of a Wikimania,
>> and what an attendee will do with the experience. so here is my experience
>>
>> My first Wikimania was 2012 in Washington DC, I was a little
>> introspective and embroiled in an ARBCOM case I shared a room with Richard
>> Farmbrough with whom I had a deep discussion about the case he gave me some
>> amazing advice about that process it literally reenergises my efforts...
>> While doing so he recommended a session about QRpedia, a really interesting
>> project.  Two months later I'm back home and still editing when an
>> opportunity presents itself to propose a QRpedia project in Fremantle, that
>> produced the first Wikitown in Australia.  The Freopedia project as it
>> became known opened the door to another WikiTown project in Toodyay called
>> Toodyaypedia,  Next minute I'm nominated for a State Heritage award for the
>> work I've been doing through Wikipedia and the out reach projects that have
>> improved coverage of Western Australian History more doors start to open.
>> I'm on a roll really energised and its rubbing off on the local community
>> they willingly helping with every silly idea I try, so much so that I get
>> nominated to be a committee member(Vice President no less) of the local
>> chapter. London 2014 Wikimedia Australia pays for me to attend London where
>> I give back to the community my experiences and share my experiences about
>> WikiTowns/QRpedia(along with a few Tim Tams and Caramellow Koalas) in the
>> community village. Also while in London I got to attended a pre-wikimania
>> training session by WMUK that they offer to people doing outreach that was
>> a wonderful experience and helped me improve the way I do outreach 
>> here,[*side
>> thought:that should be taken on the road to every chapter who does or wants
>> to do outreach*].
>>
>> I return even more enrgise and what to bring the Wikimania experience
>> here where more even more people can benefit directly rather than just
>> through my efforts. 2015 I'm presented with another opportunity to expand
>> the projects happening here this time writing in an Indigenous Australian
>> language and improving content about a subject area thats has been
>> inadeqautely covered for the first 10years of wikipedia.  Along come an
>> offer from WMF to attend Mexico I'm torn between my commitment to the
>> Noongar Language work which included a workshop that coincided with
>> Wikimania and the opportunity to attend my 3rd event, of course my
>> commitment to the local project took precidence. The cost of that was not
>> finding out about the changes to the Wikimania processes and spending a lot
>> of time putting together a bid for Wikimania in Perth.  The benefit of the
>> Noongarpedia project is that we now have the first Indigenous Australian
>> language in the incubator, with a number of other communities watching and
>> learning from our experiences, I just spent a week in Darwin which included
>

Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania - annually, with South Africa in 2018?

[Gnangarra]

Agree with the comments thats hard to measure the value of a Wikimania, and
what an attendee will do with the experience. so here is my experience

My first Wikimania was 2012 in Washington DC, I was a little introspective
and embroiled in an ARBCOM case I shared a room with Richard Farmbrough
with whom I had a deep discussion about the case he gave me some amazing
advice about that process it literally reenergises my efforts...  While
doing so he recommended a session about QRpedia, a really interesting
project.  Two months later I'm back home and still editing when an
opportunity presents itself to propose a QRpedia project in Fremantle, that
produced the first Wikitown in Australia.  The Freopedia project as it
became known opened the door to another WikiTown project in Toodyay called
Toodyaypedia,  Next minute I'm nominated for a State Heritage award for the
work I've been doing through Wikipedia and the out reach projects that have
improved coverage of Western Australian History more doors start to open.
I'm on a roll really energised and its rubbing off on the local community
they willingly helping with every silly idea I try, so much so that I get
nominated to be a committee member(Vice President no less) of the local
chapter. London 2014 Wikimedia Australia pays for me to attend London where
I give back to the community my experiences and share my experiences about
WikiTowns/QRpedia(along with a few Tim Tams and Caramellow Koalas) in the
community village. Also while in London I got to attended a pre-wikimania
training session by WMUK that they offer to people doing outreach that was
a wonderful experience and helped me improve the way I do outreach here,[*side
thought:that should be taken on the road to every chapter who does or wants
to do outreach*].

I return even more enrgise and what to bring the Wikimania experience here
where more even more people can benefit directly rather than just through
my efforts. 2015 I'm presented with another opportunity to expand the
projects happening here this time writing in an Indigenous Australian
language and improving content about a subject area thats has been
inadeqautely covered for the first 10years of wikipedia.  Along come an
offer from WMF to attend Mexico I'm torn between my commitment to the
Noongar Language work which included a workshop that coincided with
Wikimania and the opportunity to attend my 3rd event, of course my
commitment to the local project took precidence. The cost of that was not
finding out about the changes to the Wikimania processes and spending a lot
of time putting together a bid for Wikimania in Perth.  The benefit of the
Noongarpedia project is that we now have the first Indigenous Australian
language in the incubator, with a number of other communities watching and
learning from our experiences, I just spent a week in Darwin which included
talking with people there and walking them through that project. Somewhere
in all of this I also became President of WMAu  and with it WMAu has had
its most successful period, I like to think some that is because of the
energy I have brought to the table from my experience at Wikimania.

One Australian once theorised about how WMF measures success and
highlighted that the value is not in the physical numbers but in the
intangible connections that are made, he even put forward a PEG proposal to
demostrate that its the personal relationships that matter and how you
build them that have the true impact.  Being isolated in Western Australia
made for the perfect ground to develop such a project ironically it was
declined because of the fact that the project lacked the generation of
numbers which would make success measurable.

We place too much emphasis on physical numbers to measure out comes yet we
all know that education is more than just numbers and community development
is about connections, energy and empowering others Wikimania does, that we
just need to find the right boxes to tick.

[conflict with Riskers response, apologies if I over lap]


On 10 July 2016 at 09:50, Pine W  wrote:

> Hi Andrew and Leila,
>
> There are quite a few ways of looking at the numbers (which is one reason
> that I'm hoping for a thorough analysis.) Please note that I think that
> conferences should happen; I am asking if this is the status quo is the
> optimal way of spending these funds. There are other ways of using funds
> for conferences that could be explored.
>
> For example, if a Wikimania costs $600,000 and there are 1,000 attendees,
> that works out to a cost of $600 per attendee for 1000 people. Is that a
> wiser investment than spreading out the same funds among (hypothetically)
> 3,000 attendees at multiple national/regional conferences for an average
> expense of $200 per attendee? At this point I don't think any of us can
> answer that question.
>
> The Wikimania-going population, especially the people who go to many
> WIkimanias, are a vanishingly small percentage of the 

Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania - annually, with South Africa in 2018?

[Gnangarra]

That original survey was intrinsically flawed and show be totally thrown
out, the people who participated(myself included) were invited that list
was primarily constructed of people who had participated in a closed
discussion in Mexico which decided on Montreal by usurping the community
consulation process that existed yet left many to unknowingly follow that
process.  The questions gave no alternatives to the decisions of mexico.

Discussions at Wikimania are great except that the voices of those who cant
attend arent heard, its important that everyones voice is heard fairly.
You've all heard my voice before about how unfair the scholarship processes
are we saw again this year that unfairness to the region that is the third
highest source of funding.   Balancing that unfairness should mean that
Wikimania should be more accessible either via scholarships or via
locations .

Wikimania should be returned to the community in a public process not
decided behind closed doors.  The other unidentified benefits of hosting a
Wikimania is that having the Board, the ED and so many other recognisable
people in one place is that opportunity for the fundraising team to engage
with potential new sources of funds and other resources alongside the
community engagements.   It appears to me at least that the full potential
of hosting Wikimania hasnt been identified and until that happens its value
to the community isnt being realised.

On 10 July 2016 at 06:07, Lodewijk  wrote:

> Actually, I'm afraid it runs a bit deeper than who's represented in the
> group. The way the questions were set up are considered to be 'leading' and
> there was no choice between the outcome and the status quo. Maybe this is
> indeed obvious to all - and I'm happy if that is the case. But I cannot
> conclude that from your emails (the opposite is suggested actually), and
> also at the discussion in Esino I didn't get the impression everyone was
> aware of what those flaws exactly were. So hopefully superfluously -
> pointing it out again. Sorry if I get boring or obnoxious!
>
> Best,
> Lodewijk
>
> 2016-07-09 23:57 GMT+02:00 Deryck Chan :
>
>> I think everybody on this thread agree that funding in-person conferences
>> is a crucial way to invest in our community ;)
>>
>> And I think most of us agree too that we now know the survey results were
>> unrepresentative of the actual distribution of community opinions. I'm
>> simply making suggestions about what we can learn from the imperfections.
>>
>> Deryck
>> On 9 Jul, 2016 9:49 pm, "Lodewijk"  wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Deryck, all,
>> >
>> > While you can agree or disagree on the usefulness of the letter, I
>> would like to make one point about the idealab survey. One thing that is
>> not pointed out clearly, is that there was a lot of criticism on the
>> methodology of that particular survey, and how the conclusions were drawn.
>> Please take a look at the talk page attached to that outcomes page that you
>> linked, and consider that much of the criticism wasn't even responded to. I
>> think Marc was kind but correct in his characterisation as 'clearly
>> flawed'. There was some useful data in there, but the conclusions that were
>> drawn, were a few bridges too far.
>> >
>> > Another thing that was mentioned in private conversations a lot, but
>> not in many public discussions is that Wikimania is and should be primarily
>> an investment in our community. Our community is by far our biggest asset.
>> Having a healthy community is essential, and it is important that different
>> communities learn from each other, exchange ideas and methods, interact.
>> Not just with the few neighboring languages, but also with those far away.
>> >
>> > You can investigate if this Wikimania structure if the most effective
>> way, but please lets not approach this from a 'cost cutting' perspective.
>> Lets not consider Wikimania as a cost, but as an investment in something
>> intangible, in infrastructure. The financial picture should be only a very
>> small part of the consideration - in my humble opinion. I'm not sure who
>> mentioned this at Wikimania (was it Dimi? Liam?) but if you compare the
>> amount of money we spend on community building, and how much big companies
>> spend on their staff happyness programmes, annual meetups and all - we're
>> probably not doing too bad. I would be much happier if we looked at this
>> from the perspective of the most effective way to have an international,
>> constructive, interactive and exchanging community.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Lodewijk
>> >
>> > 2016-07-09 21:50 GMT+02:00 Deryck Chan :
>> >>
>> >> I find it a bit over the top too to have such a letter, so strongly
>> worded, and signed by so many board chairs.
>> >>
>> >> It reveals a divide between those who participated in the IdeaLab
>> survey[1] and those who were at the Future of Wikimania session in Esino.
>> >>
>> >> 

Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania - annually, with South Africa in 2018?

[Gnangarra]

Noting that Wikimedia Australia has also expressed its interest in holding
Wikimania in 2018 in Perth, it has a number of significant sponsorship
offers already on the table all of which had been communicated to Ellie,

the sponsorship offers includes venue fees, travel costs and other
assistance amounting to several hundred thousand Australian dollars


On 9 July 2016 at 03:50, Lodewijk  wrote:

> Thanks for the clarification, Florence. If I may ask another: the
> 'interest' expressed, does that refer to interest expressed by
> South-African Wikimedians, or by the Committee?
>
> Best,
> Lodewijk
>
> 2016-07-08 21:38 GMT+02:00 Florence Devouard :
>
>> Le 08/07/16 à 16:01, Chris Keating a écrit :
>>
>>> Hoi,
>>>
>>> I was interested to read the minutes of the most recent Wikimania
>>> Committee meeting, which decided that Wikimania will be held annually
>>> from now on, and that it will be in sub-Saharan Africa (effectively
>>> meaning South Africa) in 2018.
>>>
>>
>> Pointing out that the minutes do not say that it will be in sub-Saharan
>> Africa. It says
>>
>> "The CfP should identify the priority given for that year to Sub-Saharan
>> Africa, noting that there is expressed interest in hosting in the Republic
>> of South Africa. "
>>
>> The difference is subtle, but there is a difference.
>> The committee actually drafted an official announcement, which was
>> supposed to be published quickly after the committee minutes.
>> But we have been asked to refrain from publishing our announcement until
>> after the WMF has been consulted on the matter.
>>
>> I am happy to disclose the sentence currently drafted for our (not yet
>> published) announcement, which is
>>
>> "Considering this, the Committee has a mild preference for Sub-Saharan
>> Africa for 2018, but is of course willing to look at proposals for hosting
>> Wikimania 2018 in other locations. "
>>
>>
>> Florence
>>
>>
>>
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_Committee/Minutes/2016-06-26
>>>
>>> Interestingly, I couldn't see any sign of the Committee's decision being
>>> informed by the WMF's consultation on the future of Wikimania, or anyone
>>> from the WMF's community engagement department being present.
>>>
>>> I have to say I'm a bit confused, not least about who actually makes the
>>> decision about how frequently Wikimania happens. Is anyone able to shed
>>> any more light on this?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Planning for North America track at Wikimania 2017

[Gnangarra]

I dont see what the issue is asking for a NA track, before detailed
planning gets too far progressed, it makes sense to have the two
conferences overlap or be as one as people have limited time they can
attend if they are interested in NA tracks and follow on from the NA 2016
conference then that is a good out come.

Asking ensures

   - the venue capacity allows for the extra set of rooms needed,
   - it attracts people interested in NA issues who wouldnt attend Wikimania
   - it allows people to attend both with minimal additional costs,
   including time off work
   - its about doing proper due diligence
   - if the answer is no NA track(s) can be included then they need to
   address alternatives
   - its not a them and us type situation



On 7 July 2016 at 04:59, Marc-Andre  wrote:

> On 2016-07-06 04:49 PM, Pine W wrote:
>
>> If I'm understanding right, it appears that the pre-conference will be
>> Wednesday and Thursday, since the main conference starts on Friday (August
>> 11). Is that right?
>>
>
> That is correct.
>
> I'd be willing to help with organizing pre-conference sessions and events.
>> The conference committee is welcome to contact me off-list to discuss this
>> further. (:
>>
>
> Wikimedia France has agreed to coordinate the programme construction, I'm
> certain they would welcome help!  (Though it may be premature, I don't yet
> know exactly how they will structure their work, you may want to make your
> interest in helping known).
>
>
> -- Coren / Marc
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Say MiLLE GRACIE to all Wikimania volunteers

[Gnangarra]

fair enough

On 28 June 2016 at 20:41, Luca Martinelli <martinellil...@gmail.com> wrote:

> While I STRONGLY SUPPORT a Wikimania in Australia, this is not the
> proper thread to discuss it.
>
> Please, let's get back on topic -- how to show some love to the
> volunteers who worked their arse off for us all -- or change the topic
> of this thread, if we want to discuss the pros and cons of a Wikimania
> 2018 hosted by the Australian chapter.
>
> Cheers,
>
> L.
>
>
> 2016-06-28 14:28 GMT+02:00 Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com>:
> > I know for a fact she isnt as she told Andrew Owens our representative
> such
> > in Berlin
> >
> > On 28 June 2016 at 20:26, Manuel Schneider <
> manuel.schnei...@wikimedia.ch>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Gnangarra,
> >>
> >> it is a fact that has been in discussion a few times on this list and
> >> elsewhere that Wikimania in Australia would be a wonderful thing but
> >> something that is not likely to happen, due to the cost of getting
> >> everyone there. That said it may not be entirely impossible, but
> >> difficult.
> >>
> >> Anyway I know that Ellie Young is happy to receive any proposal you may
> >> have and do a proper due diligence on it! Get in touch with her and see
> >> if you two can work out something that is doable, despite the costs!
> >>
> >> /Manuel
> >> --
> >> Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
> >> www.wikimedia.ch
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Wikimania-l mailing list
> >> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > GN.
> > President Wikimedia Australia
> > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Luca "Sannita" Martinelli
> http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utente:Sannita
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Say MiLLE GRACIE to all Wikimania volunteers

[Gnangarra]

I know for a fact she isnt as she told Andrew Owens our representative such
in Berlin

On 28 June 2016 at 20:26, Manuel Schneider <manuel.schnei...@wikimedia.ch>
wrote:

> Hi Gnangarra,
>
> it is a fact that has been in discussion a few times on this list and
> elsewhere that Wikimania in Australia would be a wonderful thing but
> something that is not likely to happen, due to the cost of getting
> everyone there. That said it may not be entirely impossible, but difficult.
>
> Anyway I know that Ellie Young is happy to receive any proposal you may
> have and do a proper due diligence on it! Get in touch with her and see
> if you two can work out something that is doable, despite the costs!
>
> /Manuel
> --
> Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
> www.wikimedia.ch
>
> ___
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Say MiLLE GRACIE to all Wikimania volunteers

[Gnangarra]

Firstly Australia isnt a third world country, or a developing
country(though som eof our idiotic politicans would like it to be) its also
the primary contributor of donations from the region the third highest
region for donations to the WMF.

Esino Lario wasnt a transport hub not even a secondary hub it doesnt even
have an airport we have those in Australia you know you might also like to
know that the third oldest airlin <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas>e
and the one with the best safety record is also Australian, oh the black
boxes were an Australian invention as well.

And that wonderful WiFi everyone enjoys at Wikimanias was developed in
Australia.

When it comes to regional conference Australia is part of Asia and expected
to support programs there, ie in Berlin the WMAU representatives were told
we are to support(not negotiable, though we would have anyway) the regional
conference in Jakarta in 2017 but when it comes to Wikimania Australia isnt
part of Asia, when it comes to scholarships for Wikimania Australia is part
of Europe.. Kind of appears to us in Australia that we get shoved to where
ever we can be best excluded from the community.

On 28 June 2016 at 19:48, Manuel Schneider <manuel.schnei...@wikimedia.ch>
wrote:

> Hi Gnangarra,
>
> On 28.06.2016 13:16, Gnangarra wrote:
> > Thanks for the information Manuel, but where was this session
> >
> > who is working on identifying a host, where is this process taking place.
>
> the session was this one:
>
>
> https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Discussions/The_future_of_Wikimania
>
> Afterwards the Wikimania Committee had a meeting, minutes will be posted
> soon as soon as they are ready and approved.
>
> The Wikimania Committee is looking for hosts right now according to the
> process decided and published last year, everything (incl. the above
> mentioned minutes) can be found on this page:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_Committee
>
> According to the selection process Asia, or as a fallback Sub-Saharan
> Africa are the areas we are looking at. Ellie Young has already been in
> touch with candidates in Asia and has reported briefly to the Wikimania
> Committee.
> In the meeting we just had we clarified that the rotation principle, as
> laid out in the Selection Process posted on Meta, is a guideline. If
> there are no candidates we will look for a different region, just as we
> defined Sub-Saharan Africa as the backup for 2018. Please keep in mind
> that the due diligence on the candidate teams and venues is done by the
> Wikimedia Foundation, as they are actually paying for Wikimania. The
> Committee advices and tries to identify candidates according to the
> Selection Process which the WMF then assesses. We will provide
> recommendations but we cannot make the final decision.
>
> Maybe an additional word on the Selection Process.
> We saw issues with the bidding process. A lot of volunteer time is
> wasted on bids that will never make it, mainly due to the rotation
> principle that was not documented by intented by many juries.
> In order to streamline this and make the rotation principle an actual
> part of the process, we created the Selection Process. It does
> incorporate he fact that 80% of our current community is in the Americas
> and Europe, that flying between developing countries is much more
> expensive then to major hubs etc. The Selection Process still includes
> developing countries and all major continents but on a basis of "every
> other year", to balance the different criteria and the intention for
> cheap and efficient on the one hand and a global conference with
> outreach in areas we've never been to on the other.
>
> /Manuel
> --
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> www.wikimedia.ch
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Say MiLLE GRACIE to all Wikimania volunteers

[Gnangarra]

Thanks for the information Manuel, but where was this session

who is working on identifying a host, where is this process taking place.

Having twice worked on unsuccessful bids one of which the process was
usurped for Montreal, which has the Western Australian Government offering
hundreds of thousands of dollars on supporting the event(airfares,
venue(2500 capacity), sponsorship) plus the support of 2 universities here
thanks to the work I did on the bid for 2017 it'd be nice to be able to put
forward this information to someone who is actually doing the identifying
of a host

On 28 June 2016 at 16:11, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> wrote:

> Thanks for clarifying, Manuel. I hope that you'll be able to keep us
> updated through the process, and not just when it finalizes. (i.e. what
> steps are planned, etc).
>
> I'm confident that notes are being processed though, so I should be
> patient!
>
> Best,
> Lodewijk
>
> 2016-06-28 9:38 GMT+02:00 Manuel Schneider <manuel.schnei...@wikimedia.ch>
> :
>
>> Hi Gnangarra,
>>
>> On 28.06.2016 03:04, Gnangarra wrote:
>> > Great idea, also send one to the WMF if you want wikimania to continue
>> > beyond Montreal, because if you start fighting for it now there wont be
>> > one in 2018 to bring the whole of our community together, there wont be
>> > the opportunity for other to experience the global sharing of knowledge
>> > that you just experienced
>>
>> I am sorry to see that there is the impression there won't be a
>> Wikimania beyond 2017.
>> As a member of the Wikimania Comittee I can assure you that we are
>> working on identifying a host for 2018 right now.
>>
>> There has been a community survey whether Wikimania should only happen
>> every two years, but as was clarified during the "Future of Wikimania"
>> session this is not going to happen.
>> Nevertheless, there was never the intention that Wikimania 2017 would be
>> the last one.
>>
>> Hope this helps clearing up things,
>> all the best,
>>
>>
>> Manuel
>> --
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>> www.wikimedia.ch
>>
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>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Say MiLLE GRACIE to all Wikimania volunteers

[Gnangarra]

Great idea, also send one to the WMF if you want wikimania to continue
beyond Montreal, because if you start fighting for it now there wont be one
in 2018 to bring the whole of our community together, there wont be the
opportunity for other to experience the global sharing of knowledge that
you just experienced

Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.149 New Montgomery StreetFloor 6San Francisco, CA
94105USA

On 28 June 2016 at 05:05, Erik Moeller  wrote:

> 2016-06-26 11:37 GMT+02:00 Barbara Fischer :
> > When you come home, sit down and take your time to wirte a real postcard
> put
> > a stamp on it, say mille gracie in your language and sen it to following
> > address:
> >
> > Wikimania
> >
> > c/o Comune de Esino
> > P.za Pietro Pensa
> > I- 23825 Esino Lario (LC)
> > Italy
>
> Brilliant idea, will do. Until then -- many, many thanks/mille grazie
> to the organizing team and to _everyone_ involved for a wonderful,
> unforgettable Wikimania in an amazing environment. :-) A beautiful
> demonstration of the spirit of community, both by the Wikimedia
> movement and by the whole town of Esino Lario. See you in
> Montreal/Montréal!
>
> Warmly,
>
> Erik
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Accommodation

[Gnangarra]

lying on immigration forms isnt the best of ideas,  if found out(small
risk) it'll see you having trouble obtaining visas for many countries in
the future.

a cynical person would think that this is part of conspiracy to drive away
community support for Wikimanias in the future.

On 13 June 2016 at 22:37, Takashi OTA 
wrote:

> Hi Risker (and all),
>
> This is not official but practical advice for attendees.
>
> Rosa delle Alpi is one of the hotels listed in
> the accomodation page.
> https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Accommodation/Esino_Lario
>
> The address is:
> Via Adamello, 36
> 23825 ESINO LARIO (LC)
> (according to http://www.rosadellealpi.it/)
>
> You might not stay at Rosa delle Alpi, but the immigration officers won't
> care
> about it :-p
>
> --Takashi Ota [[U:Takot]]
>
> 2016年6月13日(月) 21:54 Risker :
>
>
> Iolanda, for those of us traveling from outside of Europe, we will
> normally have to provide a proper destination address as part of our
> customs and immigration process. "Esino Lario" won't normally be enough; in
> fact, it's my experience that at least half the time when traveling to
> Europe, I have had to show my reservation confirmation. We also need our
> destination address to include it in our luggage so that if it is
> misdirected, there is still some chance that it might find us before the
> conference is over. Having had my luggage go missing on more than one
> transatlantic flight - knowing that my destination address is well
> identified in association with my luggage is a Big Deal. Again, just "Esino
> Lario" isn't going to cut it. An actual address is required.
>
> Risker/Anne
>
>
> On 13 June 2016 at 08:24, Iolanda Pensa  wrote:
>
> dear all
> Everyone – who has got a ticket with accommodation in Esino Lario and
> received a confirmation from eventbrite – has accommodation in Esino Lario.
> Marta and Patrizia have assigned all the beds.
> You will be given your address and keys in Piazza Italia in Esino Lario at
> your arrival; we expect you to arrive the 21st or the 23rd according to to
> the 5 or 3 days ticket you got.
> Marta will send you today some further information about your travel and
> arrival.
>
>
> Pleonastic, but
> If you did not buy a ticket with accommodation in Esino Lario, you don’t
> have accommodation in Esino Lario.
> If you did not buy a ticket for your direct transport from and to the
> airport, you do not have direct transport from and to the airport.
> Eventually you can get worried if you don’t have an eventbrite
> confirmation.
>
>
> I personally consider wikipedians and wikimedians the most intelligent
> people I can spend time with. We certainly pretend you to get to Esino
> Lario, to find the right bus, to take the train in the right direction
> (please note that Tirano is not Torino), to sign up for events and to read
> (and cite) all necessary sources. Certainly… it’s the beginning of a great
> adventure.
> iolanda
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Il giorno 13 giu 2016, alle ore 13:03, Harry Mitchell 
> ha scritto:
>
> Nothing here, and with only a week to go before I start my travels. I
> sympathise with the organisers who are being bombarded with all sorts of
> questions and no doubt have many other things to worry about. I remember
> how that felt in 2014. But these are not minor details for people
> travelling long distances, especially for those of us who have taken time
> off work and spent our own money to get there.
>
>
> Could we trouble the organisers at least for a date by which we'll have
> some information on where we're staying?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Harry
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> 
>
>
> On Mon, 13 Jun, 2016 at 11:47, Andy Mabbett
>  wrote:
>
> On 6 June 2016 at 15:26, Mardetanha  wrote:
>
> > as elllie put on her previous emails, you will receive details separately
> > very soon
>
> A week has passed since the above reply; I'm concerned that I still
> have no information about where I shall be staying, nor indeed whether
> I have somewhere to stay. Does anyone else?
>
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
> Hi Risker (and 

Re: [Wikimania-l] Breakdown of attribution for scholarships

[Gnangarra]

Call me cynical

It doesnt matter what process is published now because that  process will
be adjusted to reflect what ever happened, thats neither fair nor
transparent.  Just the same as Montreal was chosen first and then we were
told the process was broken and needed to be changed. This appalling
process bypass occurred in discussions in Mexico City,  following outrage
at that a consultation appeared with a carefully chosen group, with a
carefully crafted questionnaire to ensure the outcome equals what was
decided earlier.

The process that started in Mexico City has created a situation where
scholarships not being awarded to communities is actually a concern as
being represented at Wikimania is now a critical part of being involved in
future decisions affecting the community.






On 14 March 2016 at 07:17, Nkansah Rexford  wrote:

> I think Ellie mentions more information on this whole selection process
> and whatnot will be put on the wikis soon.
>
> I'm sure they'll provide more insight into this whole discussion, helping
> reducing the guesswork, I think.
>
>
> On Sunday, March 13, 2016, Lodewijk  wrote:
>
>> Hi Isaac,
>>
>> I mentioned the chapter scholarships, because they are distributed /on
>> top of/ those distributed by the scholarships of the WMF. This is one of
>> the reasons why the global north gets a lower percentage.
>>
>> I don't know if there /are/ formulae for distribution on a lower level
>> than global north/global south. Maybe the country is less important than
>> what the applicants bring to the conference, and what they expect to learn
>> there.
>>
>> My point is, this is all guesswork - until we have actual data and more
>> information.
>>
>> Lodewijk
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 11:05 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Lodewijk,
>>>
>>> You might be right but I don't see where it was published that
>>> scholarships are actually distributed through chapters. Even if that's the
>>> case, did Turkey, Central America, South America, Mexico, and the Middle
>>> East have multiple chapters? Why did Wikimedia ZA got one full and one
>>> partial scholarships? In what ratio were the scholarship shared? What is
>>> the distribution formulae? Sincerely, the sharing formulae remain a mystery
>>> to me.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Isaac
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld from Glo Mobile.
>>> --
>>> *From: * Lodewijk 
>>> *Sender: * effeietsand...@gmail.com
>>> *Date: *Sun, 13 Mar 2016 22:08:01 +0100
>>> *To: *; Wikimania general list (open
>>> subscription)
>>> *Subject: *Re: [Wikimania-l] Breakdown of attribution for scholarships
>>>
>>> Hi Isaac,
>>> running such statistics is always a bit tricky. You make lots of
>>> assumptions. One being that the number of serious applications is
>>> distributed in a certain way. As I understand it, the quality of the
>>> application also plays a role, which can definitely impact distribution
>>> between countries. Fact is, that there is right now simply not enough
>>> information to draw conclusions.
>>>
>>> Also please note that many many scholarships are actually distributed
>>> through chapters - which gives even an odder distribution across countries,
>>> letting applicants in some countries benefit over the fact that there is an
>>> active office in their country that can run a budget of sufficient size.
>>> Some chapters try to compensate for that by also allowing applicants from a
>>> selection of other countries (like Poland does). So for a real analysis,
>>> one should include all these too.
>>>
>>> Lodewijk
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2016 at 9:43 PM,  wrote:
>>>

 My understanding of Wikimania Scholarship program is that Full
 scholarships are subject to quotas, while there is usually no geographical
 or linguistic limit to partial scholarships.
 However, final approval for Full Scholarships is based on the
 applicant's home country, each applicant will be categorized as either a
 Global North or Global South applicant, with the total number of
 scholarships distributed between the Global North and Global South being
 set at 25% and 75% respectively.

 The Global South includes Asia (with the exception of Japan, Hong Kong,
 Macau, Singapore, South Korea and Taiwan), Turkey, Central America, South
 America, Mexico, Africa, and the Middle East (with the exception of
 Israel). If 124 scholarship was awarded, and 75% is expected to be awarded
 for global south, it means, 93 Wikimedians are expected to get the
 scholarship from these region. Since global south consists of Turkey,
 Central America, South America, Mexico, Africa, and the Middle East, then
 no fewer than 15 Wikimedians are expected to get scholarship from Africa.
 Unless I'm 

Re: [Wikimania-l] Community Village and Meetups at Wikimania 2016

[Gnangarra]

Olatunde raises a significant issue in that call for communities to
participate in the community village is demoralising if communities dont
have the opportunity to attend the event which is suppose to be bringing
everyone together.   We have the underlying principle of sharing the sum
 of all knowledge, if we dont do it internally then we cant do it
successfully externally.

As for the response the process for Wikimania has been changed, in Mexico
last year a decision was taken with many communities unaware and excluded
from the discussion because they didnt have anyone there. With Wikmania
being every 2 years its becomes more significant that all communities have
representatives attend every wikimania otherwise it ends up isolating
communities for 4 years from the whole of the movement.The scholarship
process is also broken and its needs to be discussed it needs to be
reconsidered to allow for the changes.



On 11 March 2016 at 23:01,  wrote:

> Nkansah Rexford, I have no idea of why you directed such a non-sequitur
> comment to me. Regrettably, your tone is condescending with lack of
> empathy. Everyone have the right to voice their concerns and you're not in
> the best position to criticize them. That being said, Nobody begged for
> Wikimania scholarship but we have the right as a community to raise concern
> on certain issues and that is none of your business. You're neither a chair
> of the scholarship committee nor the Wikimedia Foundation Events Manager.
> You are not in the best position to respond to this. It is always a good
> idea to learn to be reserved.
>
> I don't like to say you're crude and rude but kindly have the decency to
> be polite when addressing your fellow Wikipedians.
>
> Warmest regards,
>
> Olatunde Isaac.
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld from Glo Mobile.
> --
> *From: * Nkansah Rexford 
> *Date: *Fri, 11 Mar 2016 14:30:07 +
> *To: *; Wikimania general list (open
> subscription)
> *Subject: *Re: [Wikimania-l] Community Village and Meetups at Wikimania
> 2016
>
> The scholarships are what they are: scholarships, not ticket to heaven.
>
> Many factors go into approving an application for scholarships. Plus,
> hundreds if not thousands apply for the scholarships every year. NOT
> everyone can be accepted. Neither will everyone be rejected.
>
> Some will need to go this year. Others will have to wait on the turn
> (assuming they check all the application requirement boxes) Unfortunately,
> this year, Nigeria couldn't win a scholarship slot. That's unfortunate but
> NOT demoralising, I think. It's not as if anyone promised you a
> scholarship...
>
> To say it's 'demoralising' is a strong word to use here. How is it
> demoralising? No one has guaranteed anyone of a scholarship should they
> edit Wikipedia or not.
>
> If because you didn't get the scholarship, and you think that's
> demoralising and wish to stop contributing to Wikipedia, that's in your
> hands. However, such an approach will defeat the whole purpose behind
> contributing to Wikipedia.
>
> We don't contribute to Wikipedia because we want scholarship. Rather, it's
> primarily for the love of contributing to the freeness and openness of
> knowledge globally.
>
> Nigeria isn't the only country in the world, nor the country without a
> representation this year at wikimania. That doesn't mean a country
> representing is better than Nigeria. It simply means, there're fewer slots
> than the scholarship grant can handle.
>
> Forget about demoralisation! Help improve knowledge freely and openly. I
> find that to be of more concern than anything at the moment.
>
> I'll recommend we work on meeting the application criteria from now until
> next year and hope to be called for scholarship. Even if then we're still
> not called, keep making the world a better place with free knowledge.
> Hi Ginevra,
>
> No scholarship was awarded to any member of the Wikimedia User Group
> Nigeria. This is worrisome as Nigeria will not be represented at Wikimania.
> I don't think this is a good idea and I wonder why American and European
> countries have more representative than Africa. This is demoralizing and
> the community is not happy about it.
>
> Warmest regards,
>
> Olatunde Isaac,
> Manager, Wikipedia Education Program Nigeria
> Coordinator, The Wikipedia Library, Yoruba.
> Secretary, Wikimedia User Group Nigeria.
> Phone: +2348166620737
> Email: reachout2is...@gmail.com
> User page: Wikicology
> Facebook: Olatunde Olalekan Isaac.
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless handheld from Glo Mobile.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ginevra Sanvitale 
> Sender: "Wikimania-l" Date: Fri,
> 11 Mar 2016 10:05:40
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List; Wikimania
> general list (open 

Re: [Wikimania-l] [Wikimedia-l] Outcomes from the Consultation on Wikimedia movement conferences/Wikimania

[Gnangarra]

>
> ​
> On behalf of the Wikimania Committee, I would like to thank everyone who

took part and the Community Resources team for organising this discussion.

The Committee will consider these recommendations and will then come back

> with some changes to our processes.
>

​Ellie started the discussion just 18 hours ago, and now your closing it
 yet it hasnt even had time for the earth to make one complete rotation, if
you seriously want opinions at least give it one 24 hour cycle better 7-14
of them as ideas and thoughts take time to be developed...

All you achieved is proving that Wikimania Committee  isnt interested in
the community ​


> ​
>
>
On 10 February 2016 at 00:19, James Forrester  wrote:

> On Mon, 8 Feb 2016 at 14:54 Ellie Young  wrote:
>
> > The Community Resources team at the WMF recently held a consultation
> > 
> > on articulating the value of Wikimedia movement conferences overall, the
> > unique value of Wikimania, and what new form Wikimania could take to
> better
> > serve the movement going forward.   We have completed analysis of these
> > results and have prepared this report:
> >
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Towards_a_New_Wikimania/Outcomes
> >
> > I will be working with the community, organizers, committees, and WMF in
> > 2017 to begin set up and planning for an experimental model for Wikimedia
> > movement conferences, including Wikimania, starting in 2018.
> >
> > Feedback and comments are welcome at the discussion page
> > <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:IdeaLab/Towards_a_New_Wikimania/Outcomes
> >
> > Thanks to all who participated!
> >
>
> On behalf of the Wikimania Committee, I would like to thank everyone who
> took part and the Community Resources team for organising this discussion.
>
> The Committee will consider these recommendations and will then come back
> with some changes to our processes.
>
> Yours,
> ___
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> 
>



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Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Notifications of acceptance and rejection for "Critical issues" presentations

[Gnangarra]

Wouldnt it be better to have redacted the anomaly and aggregated to two
remaining scores rather then three scores because other the review is
meaningless as it the anomaly in place and therefore create the wasted
effort, where an 8 and 3 occurs if the third score is a 10 then the 3 is
the anomaly and the average should be 9 where the third score is 4 then the
8 is the anomaly and the average is 3.5





On 5 February 2016 at 18:19, Michele Lavazza 
wrote:

> @Andrew pleas take a look at
> https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Programme for "the proportion,
> appropriateness or overall relationship of user digest presentations,
> critical issues or discussions".
>
> @Marc-André thank you for your remarks, this is just to say that in the
> end there was no need to implement the so-called "WMF quota" because less
> than 10 WMF staff submission were among the top 40.
>
> @Those who have doubts about the consistency of our implementation of a
> third evaluation in those cases where the first two were strongly
> divergent: this was a technically arduous thing, since clearly assigning a
> third review presupposes having two already. Having a deadline to respect,
> we tried to make sure to have the first two reviews for each submission a
> few days before the deadline (which proved impossible because of personal
> difficulties of some members of our international reviewing team). We would
> then add the third reviews when needed. This still was a heavy bulk of
> extra work, so we decided not to request the extra review for those
> submissions whose average score after the first two reviews was too low to
> make it possible for a third review to make the relevant submission
> competitive for acceptance. (For example: if the top 50 submissions, with 2
> reviews or 3 where needed, already had an average score higher than 7.5, we
> didn't assign a third reviewer to a submission whose first two scores were
> 3 and 8, because, even if the third review were a 10, the average would
> still be lower than that 7.5).
>
> I hope I answered a few of the most urgent questions. Thank you all for
> expressing you perplexities, criticism, or questions. I realise some
> aspects of the double blind peer review process have been suboptimal and
> we're trying to make sure both that the conference sessions will be great
> nevertheless, and that our experience is useful for the future Wikimanias.
>
> Thank you very much,
> yours,
>
> Michele
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 11:38 PM, Lodewijk 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> quick update about the discussions track: I'm coordinating that together
>> with a few others, and this will probably be a bit later in time that most
>> of the other sessions. This is a continuation of the Discussion Room of
>> 2014/2015 ,
>> and focuses on roundtabe discussions of 40-45 minutes each on a specific
>> topic. That is mostly because there's less preparation required for those
>> discussions, so we love to have them decided a bit later and have them be
>> more 'hot and current'. We hope to open improve the descriptions of that
>> soon though, and open suggestions for that too.
>>
>> We're currently planning to formally open discussion suggestions on Feb
>> 25 or a bit before. But in the mean time, if you're afraid to forget to
>> submit it by then, feel free to leave behind ideas here:
>> https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Discussions=edit=1
>> (Shani's list of points sounds good in general, although proposals with
>> less information are also welcome for roundtable discussions)
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Lodewijk
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Shani  wrote:
>>
>>> Following Andrew's comments, here's what I know --
>>>
>>> 1 - User Digest is just one session of about 30 minutes. Liaisons pick
>>> the speakers to that. It's supposed to give a review of the thematic
>>> subject - GLAM, EDU, etc.
>>>
>>> 2 - I'm posting here what I've sent to the Cultural Partners Mailing
>>> List -
>>>
>>> *​"*I've just updated the GLAM part on the program liaison page on Meta
>>> ,
>>> putting there everything from our joint google doc.
>>>
>>> Now that the "critical issues" submission part is over, *it's high time
>>> to submit your suggestions *to all the other aspects of our GLAM track,
>>> if you haven't done so thus far. This includes suggestions for:
>>> ** Discussions*
>>> ** Workshops / Training*
>>> ** Posters*
>>> ** Lightning talks*
>>> * *Anything else we might have forgotten*
>>>
>>> Some of you have already contacted me privately about *discussions *and
>>> *workshops,* so please feel free to update the relevant part on meta.
>>> Try to keep it in the same format as suggested below, so it's easier to
>>> follow -
>>> * Title:
>>> * Purpose:
>>> * Target audience:
>>> * 

Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2016 - Notifications of acceptance and rejection for "Critical issues" presentations

[Gnangarra]

I would have thought knowing who was proposing the presentation was a
significant factor in its evaluation as that provides the critical point of
whether the person has the knowledge  to speak about the issue. Such games
make the process appear to be unprofessional offering very little in the
way of addressing critical issues and potentially opening up the community
to abuse.

Annon review is fine as that enables the reviewers to be critical without a
concern of some backlash, I hope that before you publish the reviews
publicly  that you consider the impact of those reviews, what is actually
and ensure the reviews dont do harm to the person receiving them

On 4 February 2016 at 06:15, Andy Mabbett  wrote:

> I've just received feedback on one of my pitches saying, in part:
>
> "Bad boy Andy! This is supposed to be an anonymous review process, so
> starting your abstract with your own name, is not entirely fair."
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
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>


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Re: [Wikimania-l] [Wikimedia-l] Community consultation on the future of Wikimania

[Gnangarra]

I would be nice for the original schedule to have been followed or contact
made, it would also have been nice to have been conatcted about the delay
especially as a one of the people who followed the procedure in place and
started a bid of 2017, was then told that wasnt being followed but that
2018 was a possability as such I passed that along to those who helped
construct the bid these delays are both frustrating and making the people
on the ground look unprofessional just get on with it


As for 14 december - 18 January time lkine well we know for many people
that period is the worst time of year traditionally our lowest editting and
participation rates occur over this holiday period, capped off with the
Wikipedia 15 demands the chances of devoting significant time to this will
be harder than trying to follow two consultations at once



On 5 December 2015 at 02:28, Austin Hair  wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Risker  wrote:
> >
> > On 3 December 2015 at 14:21, Austin Hair  wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 5:11 PM, Ellie Young 
> wrote:
> >> > A lot of work has gone into preparing for  the consultation.It
> will
> >> > be going out December 14.  We are looking forward to getting
> everyone's
> >> > feedback in the weeks after and into early January.
> >>
> >> Is there a particular reason it's being delayed until the 14th?
> >>
> >
> > Perhaps because that would be close to the end of the Harassment
> > consultation, which is also being managed by other sections of the
> Community
> > Engagement department? And also after the Community Tech Wishlist
> > consultation?  I'm thrilled to see so many attempts to reach out to the
> > community, but on the other hand if the community is asked to consult on
> too
> > many things at once, it can have a limiting effect on participation.
> > Running three major community consultations all at the same time could
> turn
> > out to be counterproductive, especially at a time of year when so many
> > community members are also deeply involved in activities within their
> > personal life.
>
> Okay, no need to get antagonistic.
>
> An e-mail was cross-posted to two lists I manage (wikimedia-l and
> wikimania-l) about a topic I have a long-standing (i.e., since 2004)
> interest in. I was curious about the specific timing, as if it were
> something that had to be managed on a 9-to-5 office schedule.
>
> For my money, I don't think that the community is so mentally taxed
> (or, for that matter, so closely intermingled) that they need a break
> between talking about technical issues and our international
> conference. (And, for that matter, that this issue isn't being
> "managed" the other way around.) But if this is the official
> justification, so be it—that's all I asked.
>
> Austin
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Coming up with a new process for Wikimania selection

[Gnangarra]

very irony of all of this is that the Australian chapter had scheduled a
national-semi regional conference this past weekend but was that abandoned
when the funding request was decline

On 7 October 2015 at 08:11, John Mark Vandenberg  wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 7:57 AM, Lodewijk 
> wrote:
> > ..
> > as a side note, of course I strongly support the regional conferences,
> and I
> > am thrilled to see that the WikiArabia conference is seeing a second
> > edition!
>
> When looking for parts of a new process for Wikimania selection, I
> think it is worth building in a requirement that a 'regional'
> conference has been held in the city, or at least the country, and was
> successful at getting the locals ('casual' editors and non-editors
> alike) to walk in the doors.
>
> This would provide a clearer path towards hosting a Wikimania,
> allowing a lower cost event to provide a testing ground of both the
> organisers capabilities and local communities interest.
>
> --
> John Vandenberg
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Coming up with a new process for Wikimania selection

[Gnangarra]

the idea is moving not just in distance but also in time that way travel
will be shared more equally the time shift creates new opportunities for
other people to access the event at low cost, ok 6 hours maybe too much but
o hours has a serious potential to introduce bias

the idea is to ensure that Wikimania isnt concentrated around Europe/North
America for an extended period ie London,  New York, Barbados, Paris,
Washington, Warsaw, Berlin, Toronto, Prague, Madrid, Boston

Australia would already be exculded for a number of years(at least 6) under
this new process if an event is held in China,if we going to dump a
transparent system for a rotation the rotation which is already bias needs
to ensure that their arent further failings that will divide the community

On 6 October 2015 at 16:58, Lodewijk <lodew...@effeietsanders.org> wrote:

> OK, great that you like it - but what is your argument for it? I get the
> arguments for measuring distance in flight cost rather than time, and I get
> the reasoning that conferences shouldn't be too close together. But why
> should a conference in China disqualify Australia? Or why should London
> disqualify New York? Or even Moscow?
>
> Before we start to come up with all kind of random reasonings: focus on
> the basics please. We want the conference to cover multiple places, be
> relatively as cheap as possible and also be fun to attend.
>
> Did anyone do a calculation whether holding it in an expensive city (say,
> London) with cheaper flights actually /is/ cheaper than holding it in a
> cheap city in Asia (say, Delhi or Mumbai)? And then I don't mean WMF-budget
> wise, but total costs: including the costs by all affiliates, and the costs
> privately paid for by the volunteers. I recall being positively surprised
> that there was very little difference between India and Berlin for the
> chapters meeting...
>
> Best,
> Lodewijk
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 3:10 AM, Gnangarra <gnanga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I like the idea of distance as measure to choose the next location, but
>> that should also be coupled with a timezone  factor +- 6 hours at a minimum
>> as well...
>>
>> Wikimania still needs a local group to volunteers who  understand the
>> local language and customs, it needs their enthusiasm and energy to keep it
>> on the front burner locally
>>
>> On 5 October 2015 at 16:33, WereSpielChequers <
>> werespielchequ...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I agree that we should make rotation explicit, but that doesn't need to
>>> be done by region. We could achieve the same by requiring each bid to be a
>>> long haul flight from the previous one, and  a medium haul flight from the
>>> one before. Under the region proposal we could have Amman in Asia, Cairo in
>>> Africa and Athens in Europe all within four years. Or El Paso, Texas  one
>>> year and_Juarez, Chihuahua the next.
>>>
>>> I suggest that instead we make the rotation explicit by distance, 4000
>>> miles from the preceding venue, 3,000 miles from the one before that, 2,000
>>> from the one three years prior and 1000 from the one four years earlier. We
>>> should also have a rule that prioritises countries that welcome such events
>>> with a more open visa policy.
>>>
>>> Also if the Foundation wants to get better value for money, the venues
>>> could be determined through a commercial evaluation looking for the best
>>> value locations in the world regardless of whether or not there are locally
>>> organised wikimedians. Then get the programme determined by global
>>> volunteers. It wouldn't be too much of a burden on scholarship attendees if
>>> they got an email with their flight details asking them to volunteer to
>>> moderate or video a session.
>>>
>>> Jonathan
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4 Oct 2015, at 21:57, Ralf Roletschek <r...@roletschek.de> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, thats right. +1
>>>
>>> 2015-10-04 22:55 GMT+02:00 Federico Leva (Nemo) <nemow...@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> What I like about the explicit rotation:
>>>> * more transparency, the rotation is no longer an unwritten rule;
>>>> * more time (2 years) to make Wikimania great, less volunteer time
>>>> spent on (concurring) bids;
>>>> * more concreteness and (hopefully) cooperation in the selection stage,
>>>> less "let's beat continent X";
>>>> * more pragmatism, recognising we can't always flight the biggest
>>>> groups of people in the farthest places.
>>>>
>>>> Nemo
>>>>
>>>&g

[Wikimania-l] Biggest disappointment from Wikimania 2017

[Gnangarra]

This has been going on for three days, yet not one person involved in this
decision has take a moment to reachout personally to the people who worked
on bids, They have tabled justifications on list discussions, they have
changed the status of Meta pages but not once have they given anyone the
courtesy of owning the mistakes that have caused this, not even the WMF has
made any personal attempt to help reconcile the damage at a more personal
level..

my month ahead;

   - in three hours a meeting with a bid sponsor
   - in 2 days a workshop with GLAM commencement of a new project that will
   include 100,000+ image donation
   - in 5 days WMAU AGM where no doubt these events will be a topic of
   discussion
   - in 15 days on 21st & 22nd I'll giving presentations at a national GLAM
   conference about working with us and about we have already started

I do all of this and a lot more as a volunteer not a paid employee,  3 days
ago my perception in the openness, honesty and integrity of the projects
took a big hit, so as hollow as it'll be now it'd still be nice to think
that the people involved in this have the courage to acknowledge & own
their failures in the way the changes evolved and were communicated.

As a foot note I contacted the WMF three days ago asking for information
and an apology then that I could take to those outside our community who
have also put time, effort and resources into the bid, those email havent
even been acknowledge as being received.

-- 
​We all make mistakes but its what we do next​ that counts

​Gideon​
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Coming up with a new process for Wikimania selection

[Gnangarra]

I like the idea of distance as measure to choose the next location, but
that should also be coupled with a timezone  factor +- 6 hours at a minimum
as well...

Wikimania still needs a local group to volunteers who  understand the local
language and customs, it needs their enthusiasm and energy to keep it on
the front burner locally

On 5 October 2015 at 16:33, WereSpielChequers 
wrote:

>
> I agree that we should make rotation explicit, but that doesn't need to be
> done by region. We could achieve the same by requiring each bid to be a
> long haul flight from the previous one, and  a medium haul flight from the
> one before. Under the region proposal we could have Amman in Asia, Cairo in
> Africa and Athens in Europe all within four years. Or El Paso, Texas  one
> year and_Juarez, Chihuahua the next.
>
> I suggest that instead we make the rotation explicit by distance, 4000
> miles from the preceding venue, 3,000 miles from the one before that, 2,000
> from the one three years prior and 1000 from the one four years earlier. We
> should also have a rule that prioritises countries that welcome such events
> with a more open visa policy.
>
> Also if the Foundation wants to get better value for money, the venues
> could be determined through a commercial evaluation looking for the best
> value locations in the world regardless of whether or not there are locally
> organised wikimedians. Then get the programme determined by global
> volunteers. It wouldn't be too much of a burden on scholarship attendees if
> they got an email with their flight details asking them to volunteer to
> moderate or video a session.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> On 4 Oct 2015, at 21:57, Ralf Roletschek  wrote:
>
> Yes, thats right. +1
>
> 2015-10-04 22:55 GMT+02:00 Federico Leva (Nemo) :
>
>> What I like about the explicit rotation:
>> * more transparency, the rotation is no longer an unwritten rule;
>> * more time (2 years) to make Wikimania great, less volunteer time spent
>> on (concurring) bids;
>> * more concreteness and (hopefully) cooperation in the selection stage,
>> less "let's beat continent X";
>> * more pragmatism, recognising we can't always flight the biggest groups
>> of people in the farthest places.
>>
>> Nemo
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> --
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-- 
GN.
Vice President Wikimedia Australia
WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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