Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

[Aron Manning]

Peter, this is a very thoughtful suggestion. I'm not sure the WG members
will see it here, maybe you could post on the talk page? I haven't seen it
there.

Aron


On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 at 12:00, Peter Southwood 
wrote:

> One way to make it very clear is to have a separate project for non-free
> and pseudo-free media. Keep it off Commons altogether, so Commonists have
> no new problems, and to use it on a project would require specific
> permission by that project, so that Commons is not the only repository that
> can be used. Keep Commons the default, and make it necessary to use a
> prefix to use the not-so-free media files, so it is quite clear that they
> are different. If it is all on Commons, people will be sneaking it onto
> projects where it is not allowed, making yet more maintenance work for
> volunteers who might prefer to spend their time creating and improving
> valid content. To make it less of a hassle, the upload wizard could
> automatically switch to the alternative project if any of a specific range
> of licences were to be used, with an explanation of why the file could not
> be stored on Commons.
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

[Leila Zia]

Hi Paulo,

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 6:38 PM Paulo Santos Perneta
 wrote:
>
> If they don't have legal resources, then it is pointless to use NC ND for
> the content, as they will not be suing anyone that ignores the license and
> commercializes it anyway.

In practice, this can happen. Two points to keep in mind:

* Building trust and relationships with new communities may require
taking steps that we may not have been taking so far. People operate
in different contexts and they have varying experiences, and we may
sometimes have to change the way we do things to include them and
their knowledge. We should get comfortable thinking about these
trade-offs as we think about how to bring more diverse people and
content to the project. (I'm not arguing that we should do what this
proposal says at this point. We should discuss it though in the talk
page.)

* Having some legal pathway can be attractive to some folks, /even if/
they don't exercise it. This is an assurance that they can have some
control over their culture and the narratives around it and I can see
how this can be important for some marginalized communities. This
middle step may be needed. Also, if the legal pathway is there, they
can always some day decide to pursue it.

> If such knowledge can't be freely shared, then it has no place in Commons,
> in my opinion. If that makes it less visible, then that is the problem of
> the communities that don't share it freely. One cannot have both things at
> the same time.

Two points again: ;)

* Re Commons or not is something we should discuss in the talk pages.
Peter had some really good points early on on this thread about the 3
different options available.

* This won't be only their problem. It will be our shared problem. If
Commons ends up not being the solution, we shouldn't stop there. We
should think through what else we can do to make bringing of their
knowledge to Wikimedia projects happen. While I don't know what the
answers are, I know that we should try more. From a narrow research
perspective: this is immensely important for addressing Wikimedia's
knowledge gaps for the sake of our own immediate users but also for
the sake of indirect users of Wikimedia content. Wikimedia is imo one
of the cornerstones of the Web. The content we collectively bring to
Wikimedia projects is no longer /just/ used directly on Wikipedia
(even that alone is enough argument to attempt to find solutions for
the kind of gaps we're talking about). It's being used by a variety of
technologies to build algorithms and machines that have impact on
people's lives. Gaps in Wikimedia can become a source of bias and gaps
on search engines, home devices, school material, ... .

I'll keep the specific comments about the proposals for the talk pages.

Best,
Leila

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Welcoming Ryan Merkley to the Wikimedia Foundation

[Bobby Shabangu]

Congratulations and Welcome on board to Ryan!

Regards,
Bobby Shabangu

On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 01:28, Eileen Hershenov 
wrote:

> Wait - how many people did Doug Stamper murder?
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 5:54 PM effe iets anders  >
> wrote:
>
> > Congrats Ryan!
> >
> > The main question here at Wikimania is really... Will you be more like
> Leo
> > McGarry or like Doug Stamper as far as it comes to problem solving? :)
> >
> > Lodewijk
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 07:33 Rajeeb Dutta  wrote:
> >
> > > Congrats Ryan & all my best wishes, thanks Katherine for the update.
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > > Rajeeb.
> > > (U: Marajozkee)
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > > On 13-Aug-2019, at 10:15 PM, Katherine Maher 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi everyone,
> > > >
> > > > I’m excited to let you all know that Ryan Merkley, formerly CEO of
> > > Creative Commons, is joining the Wikimedia Foundation as my new chief
> of
> > > staff.
> > > >
> > > > Many of you have met Ryan before -- at CC Summit, Wikimania,
> Wikimedia
> > > Summit, or MozFest. He’s a leader in open source, open knowledge, and
> > > free-culture communities, and for the past five years, he’s been the
> CEO
> > of
> > > Creative Commons, initiating programs like CC search to index all 1.6
> > > billion licensed works online. He’s passionate about the power of the
> > > commons, and the role that everyone can play in making it sustainable
> and
> > > open to all. I couldn’t be happier he’s now bringing this passion and
> > > experience to our movement.
> > > >
> > > > In Ryan’s own words, “My heart has always been in open communities,
> and
> > > the power of collective acts --  that is, the things that people can
> only
> > > do when they work together, like building a commons of free knowledge
> for
> > > every person.”
> > > >
> > > > For now, Ryan’s two top priorities will be bolstering the work of the
> > > movement strategy team and supporting the Board. He’ll support the
> > strategy
> > > core team to move the Working Group recommendations into implementation
> > > within the community and Foundation over the course of the coming year.
> > > He’ll also serve as Board liaison to the Board of Trustees,
> strengthening
> > > the connections, communications, and coordination between Trustees and
> > the
> > > Foundation. Internally, he’ll support the office of the Executive
> > Director,
> > > acting in my stead on various projects.
> > > >
> > > > I’m excited by this new role for an old friend of the open community.
> > > Ryan knows our movement well. He has spent many hours with many
> > > Wikimedians, and understands the centrality of the community to the
> > > Wikimedia mission and identity. His background as a partner to
> Wikimedia,
> > > and a leader in the broader open movement will be invaluable to our
> work,
> > > and confirmation of the importance of community experience in
> Foundation
> > > leadership.
> > > >
> > > > Ryan doesn’t start in his new role until Monday, September 16th.
> > > However, he will be at Wikimania, so for those of you attending, please
> > say
> > > hi, and join me in welcoming him to Wikimedia!
> > > >
> > > > Katherine
> > > >
> > > > P.S. This announcement can also be found on our news page:
> > >
> >
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/08/13/wikimedia-foundation-welcomes-ryan-merkley-as-chief-of-staff-to-the-office-of-the-executive-director
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Katherine Maher (she/her)
> > > > Executive Director
> > > > Wikimedia Foundation
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Please note: all replies sent to this mailing list will be
> immediately
> > > directed to Wikimedia-l, the public mailing list of the Wikimedia
> > > community. For more information about Wikimedia-l:
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > ___
> > > > WikimediaAnnounce-l mailing list
> > > > wikimediaannounc...@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaannounce-l
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > >
> > ___
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>
> --
> Eileen B. Hershenov
> Of Counsel
> Wikimedia 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

[Paulo Santos Perneta]

If they don't have legal resources, then it is pointless to use NC ND for
the content, as they will not be suing anyone that ignores the license and
commercializes it anyway.

If such knowledge can't be freely shared, then it has no place in Commons,
in my opinion. If that makes it less visible, then that is the problem of
the communities that don't share it freely. One cannot have both things at
the same time. If it is notable, we may try to accommodate it in some
projects that allow that kind of content under an exception policy.

In any case, I don't believe it is in Wikimedia scope to worry about the
possible misuses people can do of the content we provide, and much less to
subvert our license policy in order to avoid stuff we should not be worried
with in first place.

Best,
Paulo


A quarta, 14 de ago de 2019, 23:27, Lucas Werkmeister <
m...@lucaswerkmeister.de> escreveu:

> I doubt that the communities in question are likely to have the same
> legal resources available to them as The Coca-Cola Company, so I must
> admit I don’t find this argument entirely convincing. Asking them to
> share their content, but then leaving them alone in the face of any
> problems arising from it, sounds more like reinforcing the status quo
> than promoting knowledge equity to me. And note that the law may not be
> written in their favor in the first place, so suggesting them to “secure
> their concerns in a legal way” may require a lengthy legislative process
> first, with uncertain outcome.
>
> (I must admit that I haven’t yet read the articles linked in the draft,
> so this email is phrased rather vaguely. I hope it still makes sense.)
>
> Cheers,
> Lucas
>
> On 14.08.19 23:51, Paulo Santos Perneta wrote:
> > All this stuff about misappropriation and unwanted commercial use of
> > certain content which is being used to justify the inclusion of NC/ND CC
> > licenses in Commons and other Wikimedia projects, really isn't Wikimedia
> > concern. If some communities object to certain types of use on content
> > produced by them, they should secure them in the law, same way as
> personal
> > image rights, trademarks, etc. No one at Commons cares if the Coca-Cola
> > logo we host there, which is both PD-old and PD-textlogo, is misused by
> 3rd
> > parties to sell some other cola beverage as if it was the original one.
> > That's Coca Cola concern, not ours, and they are absolutely free to sue
> the
> > infractor. If those communities object to certain uses, first they secure
> > their concerns in a legal way, then act upon it. As it is now, anyone who
> > get access to that content in a legal way and wants to share it, can do
> it
> > freely at Commons, and nobody at Commons is going to delete it just
> because
> > some other people, which have not any legal right over that content,
> claim
> > that using it commercially is against their beliefs or traditions.
> >
> > Paulo
> >
> > geni  escreveu no dia quarta, 14/08/2019 à(s) 22:22:
> >
> >> On Mon, 12 Aug 2019 at 21:34, Aron Manning 
> wrote:
> >> .
> >>> The draft already refers to 2 articles (1
> >>>  >,2
> >>> <
> >>
> https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=c0043945-852b-4d7e-94ad-1859f91ba418
> >>> )
> >>> that explain the need for ND. I'll ask for further sources that show
> the
> >>> benefits of NC and ND licensed materials.
> >>>
> >>> Aron
> >>
> >> 1 refers to images that are public domain in terms of copyright and
> >> the latter is mostly talking about trademark or stuff so broad that
> >> you couldn't usefuly copyright it in the first place. ND isn't a
> >> useful protection in these cases (it might be of some use for current
> >> individual artists but they can publish their work elsewhere).
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> 
> > ___
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> 
> >
>
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

[Gergo Tisza]

Also, keep in mind that feedback on what recommendations you wanted /
expected to see but did not find is just as much worth as criticism (or
praise) of the existing ones.

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 21:31 Chris Keating 
wrote:

> >
> >
> > I have some bigger concerns with a few of the other strategy proposals
> and
> > I am thinking about how to engage with the people who made those
> proposals.
> > I don't want people to feel that their ideas are being casually
> dismissed,
> > nor do I want to have hostility between the WGs and the wider community.
> I
> > would prefer to have constructive discussions, but I don't know how best
> to
> > do that at this point. I think that waiting a week or two for tempers to
> > cool might be good before engaging.
>
>
> Hi Pine - any comments on the Meta talk pages of the recommendations will
> definitely be read and help shape the next round of development of the
> recommendations. Thoughtful, considered comments are more helpful than
> angry ones, of course :)
>
> (I don't think most the working groups have much capacity to respond
> promptly, though!)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chris
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Welcoming Ryan Merkley to the Wikimedia Foundation

[Eileen Hershenov]

Wait - how many people did Doug Stamper murder?

On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 5:54 PM effe iets anders 
wrote:

> Congrats Ryan!
>
> The main question here at Wikimania is really... Will you be more like Leo
> McGarry or like Doug Stamper as far as it comes to problem solving? :)
>
> Lodewijk
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 07:33 Rajeeb Dutta  wrote:
>
> > Congrats Ryan & all my best wishes, thanks Katherine for the update.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Rajeeb.
> > (U: Marajozkee)
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On 13-Aug-2019, at 10:15 PM, Katherine Maher 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi everyone,
> > >
> > > I’m excited to let you all know that Ryan Merkley, formerly CEO of
> > Creative Commons, is joining the Wikimedia Foundation as my new chief of
> > staff.
> > >
> > > Many of you have met Ryan before -- at CC Summit, Wikimania, Wikimedia
> > Summit, or MozFest. He’s a leader in open source, open knowledge, and
> > free-culture communities, and for the past five years, he’s been the CEO
> of
> > Creative Commons, initiating programs like CC search to index all 1.6
> > billion licensed works online. He’s passionate about the power of the
> > commons, and the role that everyone can play in making it sustainable and
> > open to all. I couldn’t be happier he’s now bringing this passion and
> > experience to our movement.
> > >
> > > In Ryan’s own words, “My heart has always been in open communities, and
> > the power of collective acts --  that is, the things that people can only
> > do when they work together, like building a commons of free knowledge for
> > every person.”
> > >
> > > For now, Ryan’s two top priorities will be bolstering the work of the
> > movement strategy team and supporting the Board. He’ll support the
> strategy
> > core team to move the Working Group recommendations into implementation
> > within the community and Foundation over the course of the coming year.
> > He’ll also serve as Board liaison to the Board of Trustees, strengthening
> > the connections, communications, and coordination between Trustees and
> the
> > Foundation. Internally, he’ll support the office of the Executive
> Director,
> > acting in my stead on various projects.
> > >
> > > I’m excited by this new role for an old friend of the open community.
> > Ryan knows our movement well. He has spent many hours with many
> > Wikimedians, and understands the centrality of the community to the
> > Wikimedia mission and identity. His background as a partner to Wikimedia,
> > and a leader in the broader open movement will be invaluable to our work,
> > and confirmation of the importance of community experience in Foundation
> > leadership.
> > >
> > > Ryan doesn’t start in his new role until Monday, September 16th.
> > However, he will be at Wikimania, so for those of you attending, please
> say
> > hi, and join me in welcoming him to Wikimedia!
> > >
> > > Katherine
> > >
> > > P.S. This announcement can also be found on our news page:
> >
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/08/13/wikimedia-foundation-welcomes-ryan-merkley-as-chief-of-staff-to-the-office-of-the-executive-director
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Katherine Maher (she/her)
> > > Executive Director
> > > Wikimedia Foundation
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Please note: all replies sent to this mailing list will be immediately
> > directed to Wikimedia-l, the public mailing list of the Wikimedia
> > community. For more information about Wikimedia-l:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > ___
> > > WikimediaAnnounce-l mailing list
> > > wikimediaannounc...@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaannounce-l
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
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> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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> > 
> >
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-- 
Eileen B. Hershenov
Of Counsel
Wikimedia Foundation
1 Montgomery Street, Suite 1600

San Francisco, CA 94104

Registered In-House Counsel, State Bar of CA
Licensed in NY State
ehershe...@wikimedia.org
(US) 415-483-6676

*NOTICE: This 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

[Lucas Werkmeister]

I doubt that the communities in question are likely to have the same
legal resources available to them as The Coca-Cola Company, so I must
admit I don’t find this argument entirely convincing. Asking them to
share their content, but then leaving them alone in the face of any
problems arising from it, sounds more like reinforcing the status quo
than promoting knowledge equity to me. And note that the law may not be
written in their favor in the first place, so suggesting them to “secure
their concerns in a legal way” may require a lengthy legislative process
first, with uncertain outcome.

(I must admit that I haven’t yet read the articles linked in the draft,
so this email is phrased rather vaguely. I hope it still makes sense.)

Cheers,
Lucas

On 14.08.19 23:51, Paulo Santos Perneta wrote:
> All this stuff about misappropriation and unwanted commercial use of
> certain content which is being used to justify the inclusion of NC/ND CC
> licenses in Commons and other Wikimedia projects, really isn't Wikimedia
> concern. If some communities object to certain types of use on content
> produced by them, they should secure them in the law, same way as personal
> image rights, trademarks, etc. No one at Commons cares if the Coca-Cola
> logo we host there, which is both PD-old and PD-textlogo, is misused by 3rd
> parties to sell some other cola beverage as if it was the original one.
> That's Coca Cola concern, not ours, and they are absolutely free to sue the
> infractor. If those communities object to certain uses, first they secure
> their concerns in a legal way, then act upon it. As it is now, anyone who
> get access to that content in a legal way and wants to share it, can do it
> freely at Commons, and nobody at Commons is going to delete it just because
> some other people, which have not any legal right over that content, claim
> that using it commercially is against their beliefs or traditions.
> 
> Paulo
> 
> geni  escreveu no dia quarta, 14/08/2019 à(s) 22:22:
> 
>> On Mon, 12 Aug 2019 at 21:34, Aron Manning  wrote:
>> .
>>> The draft already refers to 2 articles (1
>>> ,2
>>> <
>> https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=c0043945-852b-4d7e-94ad-1859f91ba418
>>> )
>>> that explain the need for ND. I'll ask for further sources that show the
>>> benefits of NC and ND licensed materials.
>>>
>>> Aron
>>
>> 1 refers to images that are public domain in terms of copyright and
>> the latter is mostly talking about trademark or stuff so broad that
>> you couldn't usefuly copyright it in the first place. ND isn't a
>> useful protection in these cases (it might be of some use for current
>> individual artists but they can publish their work elsewhere).
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> 
> ___
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> 
> 

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] Welcoming Ryan Merkley to the Wikimedia Foundation

[effe iets anders]

Congrats Ryan!

The main question here at Wikimania is really... Will you be more like Leo
McGarry or like Doug Stamper as far as it comes to problem solving? :)

Lodewijk


On Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 07:33 Rajeeb Dutta  wrote:

> Congrats Ryan & all my best wishes, thanks Katherine for the update.
>
> Best Regards,
> Rajeeb.
> (U: Marajozkee)
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 13-Aug-2019, at 10:15 PM, Katherine Maher 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I’m excited to let you all know that Ryan Merkley, formerly CEO of
> Creative Commons, is joining the Wikimedia Foundation as my new chief of
> staff.
> >
> > Many of you have met Ryan before -- at CC Summit, Wikimania, Wikimedia
> Summit, or MozFest. He’s a leader in open source, open knowledge, and
> free-culture communities, and for the past five years, he’s been the CEO of
> Creative Commons, initiating programs like CC search to index all 1.6
> billion licensed works online. He’s passionate about the power of the
> commons, and the role that everyone can play in making it sustainable and
> open to all. I couldn’t be happier he’s now bringing this passion and
> experience to our movement.
> >
> > In Ryan’s own words, “My heart has always been in open communities, and
> the power of collective acts --  that is, the things that people can only
> do when they work together, like building a commons of free knowledge for
> every person.”
> >
> > For now, Ryan’s two top priorities will be bolstering the work of the
> movement strategy team and supporting the Board. He’ll support the strategy
> core team to move the Working Group recommendations into implementation
> within the community and Foundation over the course of the coming year.
> He’ll also serve as Board liaison to the Board of Trustees, strengthening
> the connections, communications, and coordination between Trustees and the
> Foundation. Internally, he’ll support the office of the Executive Director,
> acting in my stead on various projects.
> >
> > I’m excited by this new role for an old friend of the open community.
> Ryan knows our movement well. He has spent many hours with many
> Wikimedians, and understands the centrality of the community to the
> Wikimedia mission and identity. His background as a partner to Wikimedia,
> and a leader in the broader open movement will be invaluable to our work,
> and confirmation of the importance of community experience in Foundation
> leadership.
> >
> > Ryan doesn’t start in his new role until Monday, September 16th.
> However, he will be at Wikimania, so for those of you attending, please say
> hi, and join me in welcoming him to Wikimedia!
> >
> > Katherine
> >
> > P.S. This announcement can also be found on our news page:
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/08/13/wikimedia-foundation-welcomes-ryan-merkley-as-chief-of-staff-to-the-office-of-the-executive-director
> >
> > --
> >
> > Katherine Maher (she/her)
> > Executive Director
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> >
> > ___
> > Please note: all replies sent to this mailing list will be immediately
> directed to Wikimedia-l, the public mailing list of the Wikimedia
> community. For more information about Wikimedia-l:
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

[Paulo Santos Perneta]

All this stuff about misappropriation and unwanted commercial use of
certain content which is being used to justify the inclusion of NC/ND CC
licenses in Commons and other Wikimedia projects, really isn't Wikimedia
concern. If some communities object to certain types of use on content
produced by them, they should secure them in the law, same way as personal
image rights, trademarks, etc. No one at Commons cares if the Coca-Cola
logo we host there, which is both PD-old and PD-textlogo, is misused by 3rd
parties to sell some other cola beverage as if it was the original one.
That's Coca Cola concern, not ours, and they are absolutely free to sue the
infractor. If those communities object to certain uses, first they secure
their concerns in a legal way, then act upon it. As it is now, anyone who
get access to that content in a legal way and wants to share it, can do it
freely at Commons, and nobody at Commons is going to delete it just because
some other people, which have not any legal right over that content, claim
that using it commercially is against their beliefs or traditions.

Paulo

geni  escreveu no dia quarta, 14/08/2019 à(s) 22:22:

> On Mon, 12 Aug 2019 at 21:34, Aron Manning  wrote:
> .
> > The draft already refers to 2 articles (1
> > ,2
> > <
> https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=c0043945-852b-4d7e-94ad-1859f91ba418
> >)
> > that explain the need for ND. I'll ask for further sources that show the
> > benefits of NC and ND licensed materials.
> >
> > Aron
>
> 1 refers to images that are public domain in terms of copyright and
> the latter is mostly talking about trademark or stuff so broad that
> you couldn't usefuly copyright it in the first place. ND isn't a
> useful protection in these cases (it might be of some use for current
> individual artists but they can publish their work elsewhere).
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

[geni]

On Mon, 12 Aug 2019 at 21:34, Aron Manning  wrote:
.
> The draft already refers to 2 articles (1
> ,2
> )
> that explain the need for ND. I'll ask for further sources that show the
> benefits of NC and ND licensed materials.
>
> Aron

1 refers to images that are public domain in terms of copyright and
the latter is mostly talking about trademark or stuff so broad that
you couldn't usefuly copyright it in the first place. ND isn't a
useful protection in these cases (it might be of some use for current
individual artists but they can publish their work elsewhere).

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

[Chris Keating]

>
>
> I have some bigger concerns with a few of the other strategy proposals and
> I am thinking about how to engage with the people who made those proposals.
> I don't want people to feel that their ideas are being casually dismissed,
> nor do I want to have hostility between the WGs and the wider community. I
> would prefer to have constructive discussions, but I don't know how best to
> do that at this point. I think that waiting a week or two for tempers to
> cool might be good before engaging.


Hi Pine - any comments on the Meta talk pages of the recommendations will
definitely be read and help shape the next round of development of the
recommendations. Thoughtful, considered comments are more helpful than
angry ones, of course :)

(I don't think most the working groups have much capacity to respond
promptly, though!)

Thanks,

Chris
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

[Andy Mabbett]

On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 at 22:09, Pine W  wrote:

> I don't want people to feel that their ideas are being casually dismissed

I don't want people to feel their genuine concerns are being casually
dismissed; not least with glib lines like "All change has negative
connotations to some members of the community".

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

[Paulo Santos Perneta]

" I don't want people to feel that their ideas are being casually
dismissed" - Don't worry, it is not "their ideas. As Nicole Ebber
explained, those recommendations resulted from a lot of different inputs,
and none of them is supposed to be the brainchild of anyone inside the WGs.
If they are nonsense, don't be afraid to go there and tell/write what you
think.

Paulo

Pine W  escreveu no dia terça, 13/08/2019 à(s) 22:09:

> I have what seems to be a minority opinion so far. I think that hosting NC
> and ND media is worth considering. If the Commons community does not want
> media with those licenses to be on Commons then I think that Peter's
> suggestion is good.
>
> A tricky issue may be whether to allow NC and NC media on Wikipedias, where
> the media could get a lot of visibility but also cause additional licensing
> complexity beyond what we already have with the English Wikipedia fair use
> exception. This issue would need some deliberation, but any outcome
> wouldn't be a blocker to a new repository for hosting NC and ND media.
>
> I have some bigger concerns with a few of the other strategy proposals and
> I am thinking about how to engage with the people who made those proposals.
> I don't want people to feel that their ideas are being casually dismissed,
> nor do I want to have hostility between the WGs and the wider community. I
> would prefer to have constructive discussions, but I don't know how best to
> do that at this point. I think that waiting a week or two for tempers to
> cool might be good before engaging.
>
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: Draft recommendations are here!

[Paulo Santos Perneta]

" To distribute many of the function now at WMF in SF to different
locations in the world (whereof 50% in Global south)" - Distributing work
now being paid with US wages to US staff at SF to people at the Global
South paying "Global South wages" sounds a lot like moving the factories
from San Francisco to Dhaka because wages are much lower there, while
parading it as moving towards "diversity" and "inclusion".

Paulo

Anders Wennersten  escreveu no dia segunda,
12/08/2019 à(s) 18:31:

> I want to express my appreciation for the work being done and the result.
>
> I am not able to get to grips with all parts of the recommendation but
> as I understand there are two key messages:
>
> *To distribute  many of the function now at WMF in SF to different
> locations in the world (whereof 50% in Global south). I find this is
> most appropriate, both to lessen the feeling of We-them, but also to get
> more salaried people spread over the World. It is also a natural
> development as out organisation mature over time
>
> *To really go, without any compromise for the discussion in the movement
> in our communities must be held in a civil tone and in a friendly
> atmosphere  where respect for everyone is a key. I believe also this is
> long overdue and necessary when we now are over 15 years of age.
>
> I love these two issues and hope it will be implemented in full.
>
>   Anders
>
>
>
> Den 2019-08-12 kl. 17:51, skrev Nicole Ebber:
> > Dear all,
> >
> > We would like to offer further clarification that the recommendations for
> > Wikimedia 2030 [1] that were shared earlier with you are indeed drafts.
> > They represent discussions around a wide array of topics that the nine
> > thematic working groups, affiliates and communities had identified
> > important for our movement’s future. They are the product of
> conversations
> > over many months with a variety of stakeholders, and the working groups
> are
> > eager to hear from you. The draft recommendations are neither final nor
> > complete, but a continuation of an ongoing conversation happening across
> > wikis, platforms, surveys, meetings, and meet-ups. As such, constructive
> > feedback and solution-oriented suggestions are welcomed. The draft
> > recommendations are based on contexts that deserve due review and
> > reflection, and are the result of the efforts of many, rather than single
> > individuals.
> >
> > Many of the draft recommendations underline structural changes needed for
> > the growth and expansion of a movement like ours. Many are representative
> > of wider societal, historical and global dynamics around us. Please take
> > the time to review the draft recommendations in their entirety, pose
> > questions, hear from others, and in the spirit of collegial
> collaboration,
> > offer suggestions that you think can address the issues at hand. This is
> a
> > process for all of us to shape our shared future, together; let’s keep
> > engaging and challenging one another in this same spirit.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Nicole
> >
> > [1]
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Recommendations
> >
> > On Mon, 12 Aug 2019 at 15:49, Todd Allen  wrote:
> >
> >> "And just to keep this on track, what is your view on how we can
> >> incorporate
> >> indigenous knowledge without it becoming commercialised by the current
> >> licensing scheme?"
> >>
> >> We can't and no one can.
> >>
> >> Knowledge, ideas, and concepts cannot be copyrighted to begin with. Now,
> >> specific expressions of those ideas certainly can be, but the underlying
> >> facts and ideas cannot. If the expression of those ideas is to be on
> >> Wikimedia, they must be under an open content license, allowing reuse
> >> without regard to purpose. If someone would prefer to put their work
> under
> >> an NC license, then a free-content project is not the appropriate place
> for
> >> it. Many other places are happy to accept NC-licensed material. But even
> >> then, reuse of the concepts and facts cannot be prohibited no matter
> what
> >> one does.
> >>
> >> Todd
> >>
> >> On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 5:47 AM Philip Kopetzky <
> philip.kopet...@gmail.com
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Please don't generalise frustration with your conduct on this list.
> >> You're
> >>> the only one telling people to shut up here.
> >>>
> >>> And just to keep this on track, what is your view on how we can
> >> incorporate
> >>> indigenous knowledge without it becoming commercialised by the current
> >>> licensing scheme?
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[Wikimedia-l] The timeline of the Wikimedia strategy: please reconsider!

[Ziko van Dijk]

Hello,

Recently, the "draft recommendations" of the strategy working groups have
been published. As Nicole informed us, they are "key tools" for the future
of the movement. These documents are the result of one year of work of the
working groups.

If I am not mistaken, the Wikimedia volunteers now have one month to give
feedback. In October, the process of refining and finalizing has to be
ready, and in November, the movement will have to start with implementing
the recommendations.

Having seen now more of the documents, my conclusion can only be one: the
documents are simply not ready for this stage of the process. They are much
more unready than they should be for being put to the eyes of the Wikimeda
volunteers.

There are documents in which there is only one question answered, by one
sentence. Other documents don't show that any research has been used to
back the statements. Many obvious arguments and links are missing. At least
at one occasion I read as an answer to an important question: "todo".

The proposals often give the impression that they are not thought through.
There should be quotas for admins, but we see nowhere an explanation how
that would relate to the right to remain anonymous. There is the statement
that minorities sometimes can only express themselves with ND and NC
content, but the two links in the document hardly back that claim. After
years in which the Wikimedia organizations and other free and open content
organizations taught us that NC is problematic, now such a drastic change?

And there is this already infamous sentence: Instead of being informed
about the possible negative impacts of NC and ND, we only read: "All change
has negative connotations to some members of the community."

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Working_Groups/Diversity/Recommendations/9

I find it stunning that there was nobody who went through the documents
before publication and said: we cannot publish this sentence, it is giving
a very bad impression about our attitude towards the community (= the very
same people we are asking to invest their time for giving feedback).

This does not mean that all documents or all sections and recommendations
are unusable or damaging. I also cannot judge about the efforts invested,
as I have no insight in the inner workings. But it is very frustrating for
me to read the documents and often have to guess what they actually mean.
And it seems to me, given the comments on the user pages on Meta Wiki, on
this list, on de:WP:Kurier and on Facebook, that I am not the only one who
feels this frustration.

Therefore, I ask the people responsible: please reconsider the timeline. If
these documents are the result of one year work, then the documents will
not be ready within two and a half months. Consider several months for the
working groups to use the present feedback for a redraft, and then give the
Wikimedia volunteers at least the same amount of time for giving feedback
again.

Kind regards
Ziko
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[Wikimedia-l] Wiki Indaba 2019 Scholarship Confirmation

[kayode yussuf via Wikimedia-l]

 Dear Community Members,
Apologies for cross-posting.
Sequel to my last mail about the announcement of the scholarship list for Wiki 
Indaba 2019, I write to inform you that some scholarship recipients are yet to 
confirm their availability to attend Wiki Indaba 2019.
The Scholarship Review Committee may cancel the scholarship of such recipients 
and offer the scholarships to people on the wait-list if the confirmation is 
not received today. 

Scholarship recipients are required to please reply with a scanned copy of 
their international passport data page  and notify us if  they need a Visa to 
Nigeria. 
For further information, please contact i...@wikimedia.org.ng.
Thank you.
Kayode YussufCommunications LeadWiki Indaba 2019 LOC

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Medicine: Changes in Board Compositions

[Jack Gleeson]

Congratulations Doug

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 at 07:02, Lane Rasberry  wrote:

> Lots of good news with medicine and wiki lately!
>
>- Wikimedia Medicine is established at the chapter rank!
>- stable leadership and membership in the organization for years!
>- lots of medicine + wiki + university partnerships!
>- ongoing medical content programs!
>- people are enjoying!
>- 20% of the Wikimedia Foundation board of Trustees are highly engaged
>in medicine
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:36 AM Rajeeb Dutta 
> wrote:
>
> > Congrats Shani & Doug Taylor and all my best wishes for your upcoming
> > future endeavour.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Rajeeb Dutta.
> > (U: Marajozkee)
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On 13-Aug-2019, at 4:43 AM, Shani Evenstein 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear all,
> > >
> > > If you've seen my post yesterday then you might have expected this this
> > > announcement as well; if you haven't -- as some of you may know, I will
> > > soon be joining the Board of Trustees (August 15), and am therefore
> > > required to resign my formal role as Chair of Wikimedia Medicine
> (a.k.a.
> > > WikiProject Medicine Foundation). This means a new vacancy in the board
> > has
> > > to be filled and a new Chair must be appointed.
> > >
> > > I'm happy to report that in an online board meeting earlier this month
> > the
> > > board chose *Doug Taylor* to serve as the new Chair for our newly
> > approved
> > > Thematic Organization. Doug has been part of WikiProject Medicine for
> > years
> > > now and has diligently served as the group's formal secretary. Doug not
> > > only has the institutional memory of the organization, but has actively
> > > taken part in a variety related activities in the UK and in
> collaboration
> > > with other countries. Doug also brings management skills to the board,
> > > experience from the board of Wikimedia UK, as well as a deep
> > understanding
> > > of the movement as a whole, which I have no doubt will allow the
> > > organization to grow and expand its activities around the world.
> > >
> > > As Doug transitions into his new position as Chair, *Dr. Stuart Ray*
> will
> > > be supporting him as Vice Chair and continue to serve as co-treasurer,
> > and
> > > *Mossab* will continue to serve as Membership Admin. A new secretary
> will
> > > be appointed soon, hopefully during the board's in-person meeting at
> > > Wikimania. The board will also soon co-opt a new board member to fill
> out
> > > the vacant spot, till the next election in 2022.
> > >
> > > I'll remain involved in the organization as an 'adviser to the board'
> and
> > > look forward to seeing this Thematic Organization grow, as well as to
> > > continue contributing to medical-related topics as a volunteer and
> > lecturer
> > > at the Tel Aviv University.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Shani Evenstein.
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
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> > 
> >
> > ___
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> > 
>
>
>
> --
> Lane Rasberry
> user:bluerasberry on Wikipedia
> 206.801.0814
> l...@bluerasberry.com
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[Wikimedia-l] Conclusion of Wiki Loves Earth 2019 in Sri Lanka

[Rehman Abubakr]

Hello everyone,

I'd like to cross-post our final WLE reports here, for the benefit of anyone 
interested, or anyone planning to conduct a similar contest.

This was the first ever contest we conducted in Sri Lanka, and there was many 
learning points. It took 2 organisers, and 6 jury members, to get this 
successfully completed.

Feel free to reach out to me for any questions or comments.



Yours truly,


Rehman Abubakr (Roy)

Admin (English Wikipedia, Commons), Contributor (Wikidata, Meta), OTRS agent
User:Rehman | 
rehman.wikime...@live.com | 
UG-LK


From: Wikimedia-LK  on behalf of 
Rehman Abubakr 
Sent: 14 August 2019 12:41
To: wikimedia...@lists.wikimedia.org 
Subject: [Wikimedia-LK] Conclusion of Wiki Loves Earth 2019 in Sri Lanka

Dear all,

This email is to notify the conclusion of the Wiki Loves Earth 2019 photo 
contest in Sri Lanka.

  *   Special thanks to all our translators and jury members: User:Azeez, 
User:Sivakosaran, User:Sandaru, User:NandanaM, User:Dan_arndt.
  *   The winners have been published earlier on our internal project page: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Community_User_Group_Sri_Lanka/Events/WLE2019
  *   Winners from all countries can be viewed here: 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Earth_2019/Winners
  *   The final comprehensive grant report is being finalised here: 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Project/Rapid/UG_LK/Wiki_Loves_Earth_2019_in_Sri_Lanka/Report

Thanks to everyone who helped make this photo contest a brilliant success!



Yours truly,


Rehman Abubakr (Roy)

Admin (English Wikipedia, Commons), Contributor (Wikidata, Meta), OTRS agent
User:Rehman | 
rehman.wikime...@live.com | 
UG-LK
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Medicine: Changes in Board Compositions

[Lane Rasberry]

Lots of good news with medicine and wiki lately!

   - Wikimedia Medicine is established at the chapter rank!
   - stable leadership and membership in the organization for years!
   - lots of medicine + wiki + university partnerships!
   - ongoing medical content programs!
   - people are enjoying!
   - 20% of the Wikimedia Foundation board of Trustees are highly engaged
   in medicine



On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:36 AM Rajeeb Dutta  wrote:

> Congrats Shani & Doug Taylor and all my best wishes for your upcoming
> future endeavour.
>
> Best Regards,
> Rajeeb Dutta.
> (U: Marajozkee)
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 13-Aug-2019, at 4:43 AM, Shani Evenstein 
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > If you've seen my post yesterday then you might have expected this this
> > announcement as well; if you haven't -- as some of you may know, I will
> > soon be joining the Board of Trustees (August 15), and am therefore
> > required to resign my formal role as Chair of Wikimedia Medicine (a.k.a.
> > WikiProject Medicine Foundation). This means a new vacancy in the board
> has
> > to be filled and a new Chair must be appointed.
> >
> > I'm happy to report that in an online board meeting earlier this month
> the
> > board chose *Doug Taylor* to serve as the new Chair for our newly
> approved
> > Thematic Organization. Doug has been part of WikiProject Medicine for
> years
> > now and has diligently served as the group's formal secretary. Doug not
> > only has the institutional memory of the organization, but has actively
> > taken part in a variety related activities in the UK and in collaboration
> > with other countries. Doug also brings management skills to the board,
> > experience from the board of Wikimedia UK, as well as a deep
> understanding
> > of the movement as a whole, which I have no doubt will allow the
> > organization to grow and expand its activities around the world.
> >
> > As Doug transitions into his new position as Chair, *Dr. Stuart Ray* will
> > be supporting him as Vice Chair and continue to serve as co-treasurer,
> and
> > *Mossab* will continue to serve as Membership Admin. A new secretary will
> > be appointed soon, hopefully during the board's in-person meeting at
> > Wikimania. The board will also soon co-opt a new board member to fill out
> > the vacant spot, till the next election in 2022.
> >
> > I'll remain involved in the organization as an 'adviser to the board' and
> > look forward to seeing this Thematic Organization grow, as well as to
> > continue contributing to medical-related topics as a volunteer and
> lecturer
> > at the Tel Aviv University.
> >
> > Best,
> > Shani Evenstein.
> > ___
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-- 
Lane Rasberry
user:bluerasberry on Wikipedia
206.801.0814
l...@bluerasberry.com
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