Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fake news

[James Hare]

To clarify, are you referring to Wikipedia's reporting of fake news, or
fake news being disseminated on Wikipedia itself?




James Hare
Associate Product Manager
Wikimedia Foundation
https://wikimediafoundation.org

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 7:26 AM, Devouard (gmail) 
wrote:

> Hi
>
> I have been proposed to give a conference about wikipedia and fake news
> and to focus on very specific examples rather than general concepts. I
> already have a few ideas but any pointers to particularly interesting cases
> or discussions will be welcome.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Florence
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fake news

[Devouard (gmail)]

Omg. What a ride 

Thank you for sharing that one Tomasz. I guess that since this one 
somewhat involves France, I somehow have a duty to use it in my talk :



Le 28/04/2018 à 16:28, Tomasz Ganicz a écrit :

If you are interested - an epic story from Poland:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Forks_CEE_Meeting_2017.pdf



2018-04-27 16:26 GMT+02:00 Devouard (gmail) :


Hi

I have been proposed to give a conference about wikipedia and fake news
and to focus on very specific examples rather than general concepts. I
already have a few ideas but any pointers to particularly interesting cases
or discussions will be welcome.

Thanks for your help.

Florence

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fake news

[Tomasz Ganicz]

If you are interested - an epic story from Poland:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Forks_CEE_Meeting_2017.pdf



2018-04-27 16:26 GMT+02:00 Devouard (gmail) :

> Hi
>
> I have been proposed to give a conference about wikipedia and fake news
> and to focus on very specific examples rather than general concepts. I
> already have a few ideas but any pointers to particularly interesting cases
> or discussions will be welcome.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Florence
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 




-- 
Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fake news

[Devouard (gmail)]

Le 27/04/2018 à 17:34, Amir E. Aharoni a écrit :

Try looking at the story of the "Daily Mail ban" in the English Wikipedia.
Daily Mail is not really fake news (it's just sensationalist, biased, and
not that useful), and the ban is not hermetic, but that is much closer to
the topic of fake news than hoaxes. The discussions around the "ban", and
how it is actually enacted (or not) may say something interesting about
Wikipedia's relationship with media.

Try to find other examples of such bans of bad sources. Some of them will
probably be true fake news sources. It will be especially cool if you can
find examples from different languages and not only English and French.

Looking at spam black lists and the talk pages associated with them may
also be very revealing. Despite the title, it's not just for spam in the
sense of repetitive digital advertising, but for all unwanted URLs. The
lists definitely have sites for pornography and white supremacy, and
although I can't recall an example (and I'm now writing from my phone and
can't check conveniently), they probably have a lot of fake news sites.

If you find anything interesting, please share it with us! :)


For sure :)

Flo




בתאריך יום ו׳, 27 באפר׳ 2018, 17:27, מאת Devouard (gmail) ‏<
fdevou...@gmail.com>:


Hi

I have been proposed to give a conference about wikipedia and fake news
and to focus on very specific examples rather than general concepts. I
already have a few ideas but any pointers to particularly interesting
cases or discussions will be welcome.

Thanks for your help.

Florence

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fake news

[Amir E. Aharoni]

Try looking at the story of the "Daily Mail ban" in the English Wikipedia.
Daily Mail is not really fake news (it's just sensationalist, biased, and
not that useful), and the ban is not hermetic, but that is much closer to
the topic of fake news than hoaxes. The discussions around the "ban", and
how it is actually enacted (or not) may say something interesting about
Wikipedia's relationship with media.

Try to find other examples of such bans of bad sources. Some of them will
probably be true fake news sources. It will be especially cool if you can
find examples from different languages and not only English and French.

Looking at spam black lists and the talk pages associated with them may
also be very revealing. Despite the title, it's not just for spam in the
sense of repetitive digital advertising, but for all unwanted URLs. The
lists definitely have sites for pornography and white supremacy, and
although I can't recall an example (and I'm now writing from my phone and
can't check conveniently), they probably have a lot of fake news sites.

If you find anything interesting, please share it with us! :)

בתאריך יום ו׳, 27 באפר׳ 2018, 17:27, מאת Devouard (gmail) ‏<
fdevou...@gmail.com>:

> Hi
>
> I have been proposed to give a conference about wikipedia and fake news
> and to focus on very specific examples rather than general concepts. I
> already have a few ideas but any pointers to particularly interesting
> cases or discussions will be welcome.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Florence
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fake news

[Yaroslav Blanter]

There are topics where generally there is a lot of POV pushing (not
necessarily fake news, just people adding unreferenced or poorly referenced
POV material), for example see

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Crimea

which contains a lot of both pro-Russian and pro-Ukrainian pushing.
However, when it aggravates, it is easily stopped by applying a protection.
There are few administrators watching these topics (I used to be one of
them), but the protection requests rarely get rejected if the disruption is
ongoing.

An example of more difficult situation is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence_referendum,_2017

where two groups of editors, pro-independence and anti-independence, are
operating with two groups of sources (Catalan and Spanish central
government) which often contradict each other. Most of the editors seem to
be good-faith, but at the talk page they do not seem to be able to agree
with each other, and the article generally can not be trusted. I am afraid
the community does not have any capacity to go into details of the sources
and to mediate the conflict.

And articles like this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_separatist_movements_in_Europe

can contain all kind of bullshit, nobody cares. I do  not think we
currently have enough bandwidth to clean all these articles up, and the POV
pushers know this.

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 4:58 PM, Devouard (gmail) 
wrote:

> Thanks for the first answers, both online and private.
> (the WikiData one is good and the List of Hoax should come handy.
> I also got an excellent suggestion with a recent research :
> http://wikiworkshop.org/2018/papers/wikiworkshop2018_paper_1.pdf)
>
> Let me be more specific... I am in particular interested in cases where it
> involves systematic actions involving automated systems or very large (and
> rich) networks against which the community would have difficulties to deal
> with.
>
> For example, the issue with BDB and binary options.
>
> Flo
>
>
> Le 27/04/2018 à 16:39, Yaroslav Blanter a écrit :
>
>> Hi Florence,
>>
>> this page might help:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_hoaxes_on_Wikipedia
>>
>> It is of course very different to create a complete hoax on Wikipedia on a
>> topic which is heavily watched. It is much easier to create a hoax on an
>> obscure subject very few people know about, then it has a chance to stay
>> undiscovered for a long time.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Yaroslav
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 4:26 PM, Devouard (gmail) 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>>
>>> I have been proposed to give a conference about wikipedia and fake news
>>> and to focus on very specific examples rather than general concepts. I
>>> already have a few ideas but any pointers to particularly interesting
>>> cases
>>> or discussions will be welcome.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your help.
>>>
>>> Florence
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
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>>> i/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> 
>>>
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>>
>>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fake news

[Devouard (gmail)]

Thanks for the first answers, both online and private.
(the WikiData one is good and the List of Hoax should come handy.
I also got an excellent suggestion with a recent research : 
http://wikiworkshop.org/2018/papers/wikiworkshop2018_paper_1.pdf)


Let me be more specific... I am in particular interested in cases where 
it involves systematic actions involving automated systems or very large 
(and rich) networks against which the community would have difficulties 
to deal with.


For example, the issue with BDB and binary options.

Flo

Le 27/04/2018 à 16:39, Yaroslav Blanter a écrit :

Hi Florence,

this page might help:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_hoaxes_on_Wikipedia

It is of course very different to create a complete hoax on Wikipedia on a
topic which is heavily watched. It is much easier to create a hoax on an
obscure subject very few people know about, then it has a chance to stay
undiscovered for a long time.

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 4:26 PM, Devouard (gmail) 
wrote:


Hi

I have been proposed to give a conference about wikipedia and fake news
and to focus on very specific examples rather than general concepts. I
already have a few ideas but any pointers to particularly interesting cases
or discussions will be welcome.

Thanks for your help.

Florence

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fake news

[Yaroslav Blanter]

Hi Florence,

this page might help:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_hoaxes_on_Wikipedia

It is of course very different to create a complete hoax on Wikipedia on a
topic which is heavily watched. It is much easier to create a hoax on an
obscure subject very few people know about, then it has a chance to stay
undiscovered for a long time.

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 4:26 PM, Devouard (gmail) 
wrote:

> Hi
>
> I have been proposed to give a conference about wikipedia and fake news
> and to focus on very specific examples rather than general concepts. I
> already have a few ideas but any pointers to particularly interesting cases
> or discussions will be welcome.
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Florence
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fake news

[Anders Wennersten]

We have the latest propaganda issue from Russia (gazprom and a troll 
company), that has been accepted in around 50 wikipedia versions. I see 
this not only as propaganda but also fake news


https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q19960532

Anders


Den 2018-04-27 kl. 16:26, skrev Devouard (gmail):

Hi

I have been proposed to give a conference about wikipedia and fake 
news and to focus on very specific examples rather than general 
concepts. I already have a few ideas but any pointers to particularly 
interesting cases or discussions will be welcome.


Thanks for your help.

Florence

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[Wikimedia-l] Fake news

[Devouard (gmail)]

Hi

I have been proposed to give a conference about wikipedia and fake news 
and to focus on very specific examples rather than general concepts. I 
already have a few ideas but any pointers to particularly interesting 
cases or discussions will be welcome.


Thanks for your help.

Florence

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fake news ‘vaccine’: online game may ‘inoculate’ by simulating propaganda tactics

[James Salsman]

Here is a tweet describing a problem with social media recommendation systems:

"The algorithm I worked on at Google recommended Alex Jones' videos
more than 15,000,000,000 times, to some of the most vulnerable people
in the nation." - @gchaslot

What should the penalty for that be? A fine? Enough for the Foundation
to hire all my Google Summer of Code students to add pronunciation
remediation to Wiktionary?

If you think that's bad, most of the recommendation system damage is
from the vanity of fame instead of political schemers. Almost all of
the post-Myspace social media had a bias towards usually undeserved
fame. Luckily, the damage is merely memetic and can be repaired with
literature. But the schemers turn into fraud cases, so they get more
attention than they should relative to the larger, general problem.

Best regards,
Jim

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 11:27 PM, James Salsman  wrote:
> Here is a good example of instructional software to solve a systemic
> communication issue:
>
> https://www.getbadnews.com/
>
> Ref.: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180220093555.htm
>
> How can we sustain progress towards resolution of the issues?
>
> Also, does the date by which Titan is likely to be colonized correlate
> with the extent to which progress has been achieved? This is not the
> first time I have asked this question here, and I hope the answer is
> as clear to everyone else as it is to me: it correlates inversely.
>
> I wonder if the Foundation could afford to have David Attenborough
> narrate the interaction between Cambridge Analytica and Cambridge
> University. They would if they'd start investing in unskimmable
> endowment funds. Make donors' money work hard, with a screening for
> sustainability.
>
> Bring back the regular email to donors suggesting other organizations
> worthy of their money, and tell them how to avoid being skimmed by
> high frequency traders, too, please.
>
> Best regards,
> Jim

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