Re: [Wikimedia-l] Issue on Dutch Wikipedia in relation to BLP violating images
Hmmm, Is that the fourth or the fifth wiki you are now indeffed from ? ;-) (I was looking up your illustrious history while chatting with you, and I admit I lost count somewhere along the way :-P [*]) Checking up on the nl.wikipedia discussions you had, I do agree that the environment turned toxic pretty quickly ... once you started throwing around insults like confetti. ;-) You were trying to get indeffed on purpose, right!? Only sane explanation. Wikis are like pokemon, gotta get indeffed from them all! sincerely, Kim Bruning [*] NSFL WARNING: do not look up why Russavia was decratted on Commons: NSFL WARNING [**] [**] I'm not entirely sure why they were *merely* decratted. This might be a fatal flaw in commons. On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 05:23:30AM +0800, Russavia wrote: Michel, I agree the atmosphere there is extremely toxic. For the record, I have now been indefinitely blocked on Dutch Wikipedia for raising serious concerns on Commons about one of their clique. Concerns which involved incontrovertible evidence that they have been accessing materials on Commons which was deleted due to privacy concerns and then passed around to others who wouldn't otherwise have that access. The unfunny part about it all, is that this only came to light after I publicly told MoiraMoira that given it was me who deleted privacy related images on Commons as they related to her, she should have more understanding on issues when subjects of articles have complaints about images of themselves. It then lead to that evidence being provided to me within minutes. The person who provided me the evidence has also been indefinitely blocked on Dutch Wikipedia, ostensibly for providing me with the evidence which included the person's first name -- a first name that was well known to me by way of discussion many years ago when we introduced ourselves privately on IRC. So, I agree wholeheartedly about their abusive and toxic environment, and don't really take any notice to those on there who call me a troll, for it is those people on Dutch Wikipedia who are playing unacceptable games in outright violation of the WMF Board resolution. They think they are punishing me, they are not; they are punishing the subject of the article. Regards, Russavia On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 4:46 AM, Michel Vuijlsteke wikipe...@zog.org wrote: Quick and easy: don't bother with the Dutch Wikipedia. It is one of the more toxic environments on the internet. :) ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- [Non-pgp mail clients may show pgp-signature as attachment] gpg (www.gnupg.org) Fingerprint for key FEF9DD72 5ED6 E215 73EE AD84 E03A 01C5 94AC 7B0E FEF9 DD72 ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Issue on Dutch Wikipedia in relation to BLP violating images
C'mon, Kim, you know better. Keep it on IRC. Austin ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] Issue on Dutch Wikipedia in relation to BLP violating images
It is with some degree of sadness that I have to bring this to wikimedia-l, but it's something that has to be done I am afraid In December 2011, I dealt with an OTRS complaint by an individual relating to a photograph of her which was being used in her articles on Wikipedia. She was not happy with the image. Inline with the WMF Resolution dealing with images of living people,[1] I followed: Treat any person who has a complaint about images of themselves hosted on our projects with patience, kindness, and respect, and encourage others to do the same. The image[2] was removed from the article and replaced with another suitable image. The subject also provided another image via OTRS.[3] Fast forward to November 2014, and on Dutch Wikipedia an editor known as EvilFreD performed what is known as BTNI reverts over numerous of my edits going back several years. It's one of the most pathetic policies on any project, which basically says that with no thought on how poor an image is, it should never be replaced without two months of mindless discussion.[4] EvilFreD has left a message on my talk page and I responded to him informing him of the complaint about this image.[5] After my revert noting BLP, another admin, MoiraMoira has left a message on my talk page.[6] Given the timeframe (2 minutes) it is possible she didn't see it, so I asked her to please look at the above note to EvilFreD. Her response: Hello, I'm very clear here: this is the Dutch wikipedia. And there is no space to troll or challenge other people. If you continue this behaviour, a timeout will follow. You should know better. My removal, because Moira refused to do so, is met with one of the most pathetic, trollish comments I have seen;[7] an insistence that I speak in Dutch, not English. MoiraMoira then immediately protects the article. Is this treating people who complaints about themselves with kindness and respect? Or is there something else going on on Dutch Wikipedia that I don't care to know about? It's not the first time I have met such resistance for the removal of problematic images on Dutch Wikipedia, as was demonstrated here.[8][9] Given the trollish nature of comments directed towards myself, and the threats of blocks by MoiraMoira if I dare to challenge them on this issue, would someone who has the patience to deal with such behaviour please intervene and deal with this issue. Be mindful, you will need to speak Dutch, and will also be willing to divulge private information from OTRS in order to satisfy the people on this project. Also, please note, that in discussion with the subject she was fine in having the image kept on Commons, but didn't want it used in her article in the infobox. I think this is the least we can do for article subjects on our projects. Regards Russavia [1] http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Images_of_identifiable_people [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Justine_bateman_7-10-2007.jpg [3] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Justine_Bateman_NYC.jpg [4] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:BTNI [5] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overleg_gebruiker:Russavia#BTNI [6] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overleg_gebruiker:Russavia#Bewerkingsoorlog [7] https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Justine_Batemandiff=42577573oldid=42577394 [8] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overleg_gebruiker:Russavia#Image_on_Prostitutie_in_Thailand [9] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:9.000919_Pattaya_streetscene5.jpg ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Issue on Dutch Wikipedia in relation to BLP violating images
Hi Russavia, whether or not you are right, please note that you are apparently considered a troll by the Dutch community, which might have influenced the exchange. (I did not read up much on the affair, but I think this is a relevant observation in general). Best, Lodewijk On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 2:47 PM, Russavia russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com wrote: It is with some degree of sadness that I have to bring this to wikimedia-l, but it's something that has to be done I am afraid In December 2011, I dealt with an OTRS complaint by an individual relating to a photograph of her which was being used in her articles on Wikipedia. She was not happy with the image. Inline with the WMF Resolution dealing with images of living people,[1] I followed: Treat any person who has a complaint about images of themselves hosted on our projects with patience, kindness, and respect, and encourage others to do the same. The image[2] was removed from the article and replaced with another suitable image. The subject also provided another image via OTRS.[3] Fast forward to November 2014, and on Dutch Wikipedia an editor known as EvilFreD performed what is known as BTNI reverts over numerous of my edits going back several years. It's one of the most pathetic policies on any project, which basically says that with no thought on how poor an image is, it should never be replaced without two months of mindless discussion.[4] EvilFreD has left a message on my talk page and I responded to him informing him of the complaint about this image.[5] After my revert noting BLP, another admin, MoiraMoira has left a message on my talk page.[6] Given the timeframe (2 minutes) it is possible she didn't see it, so I asked her to please look at the above note to EvilFreD. Her response: Hello, I'm very clear here: this is the Dutch wikipedia. And there is no space to troll or challenge other people. If you continue this behaviour, a timeout will follow. You should know better. My removal, because Moira refused to do so, is met with one of the most pathetic, trollish comments I have seen;[7] an insistence that I speak in Dutch, not English. MoiraMoira then immediately protects the article. Is this treating people who complaints about themselves with kindness and respect? Or is there something else going on on Dutch Wikipedia that I don't care to know about? It's not the first time I have met such resistance for the removal of problematic images on Dutch Wikipedia, as was demonstrated here.[8][9] Given the trollish nature of comments directed towards myself, and the threats of blocks by MoiraMoira if I dare to challenge them on this issue, would someone who has the patience to deal with such behaviour please intervene and deal with this issue. Be mindful, you will need to speak Dutch, and will also be willing to divulge private information from OTRS in order to satisfy the people on this project. Also, please note, that in discussion with the subject she was fine in having the image kept on Commons, but didn't want it used in her article in the infobox. I think this is the least we can do for article subjects on our projects. Regards Russavia [1] http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Images_of_identifiable_people [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Justine_bateman_7-10-2007.jpg [3] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Justine_Bateman_NYC.jpg [4] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:BTNI [5] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overleg_gebruiker:Russavia#BTNI [6] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overleg_gebruiker:Russavia#Bewerkingsoorlog [7] https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Justine_Batemandiff=42577573oldid=42577394 [8] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overleg_gebruiker:Russavia#Image_on_Prostitutie_in_Thailand [9] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:9.000919_Pattaya_streetscene5.jpg ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Issue on Dutch Wikipedia in relation to BLP violating images
Quick and easy: don't bother with the Dutch Wikipedia. It is one of the more toxic environments on the internet. :) On 28 November 2014 at 14:47, Russavia russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com wrote: It is with some degree of sadness that I have to bring this to wikimedia-l, but it's something that has to be done I am afraid In December 2011, I dealt with an OTRS complaint by an individual relating to a photograph of her which was being used in her articles on Wikipedia. She was not happy with the image. Inline with the WMF Resolution dealing with images of living people,[1] I followed: Treat any person who has a complaint about images of themselves hosted on our projects with patience, kindness, and respect, and encourage others to do the same. The image[2] was removed from the article and replaced with another suitable image. The subject also provided another image via OTRS.[3] Fast forward to November 2014, and on Dutch Wikipedia an editor known as EvilFreD performed what is known as BTNI reverts over numerous of my edits going back several years. It's one of the most pathetic policies on any project, which basically says that with no thought on how poor an image is, it should never be replaced without two months of mindless discussion.[4] EvilFreD has left a message on my talk page and I responded to him informing him of the complaint about this image.[5] After my revert noting BLP, another admin, MoiraMoira has left a message on my talk page.[6] Given the timeframe (2 minutes) it is possible she didn't see it, so I asked her to please look at the above note to EvilFreD. Her response: Hello, I'm very clear here: this is the Dutch wikipedia. And there is no space to troll or challenge other people. If you continue this behaviour, a timeout will follow. You should know better. My removal, because Moira refused to do so, is met with one of the most pathetic, trollish comments I have seen;[7] an insistence that I speak in Dutch, not English. MoiraMoira then immediately protects the article. Is this treating people who complaints about themselves with kindness and respect? Or is there something else going on on Dutch Wikipedia that I don't care to know about? It's not the first time I have met such resistance for the removal of problematic images on Dutch Wikipedia, as was demonstrated here.[8][9] Given the trollish nature of comments directed towards myself, and the threats of blocks by MoiraMoira if I dare to challenge them on this issue, would someone who has the patience to deal with such behaviour please intervene and deal with this issue. Be mindful, you will need to speak Dutch, and will also be willing to divulge private information from OTRS in order to satisfy the people on this project. Also, please note, that in discussion with the subject she was fine in having the image kept on Commons, but didn't want it used in her article in the infobox. I think this is the least we can do for article subjects on our projects. Regards Russavia [1] http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:Images_of_identifiable_people [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Justine_bateman_7-10-2007.jpg [3] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Justine_Bateman_NYC.jpg [4] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:BTNI [5] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overleg_gebruiker:Russavia#BTNI [6] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overleg_gebruiker:Russavia#Bewerkingsoorlog [7] https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Justine_Batemandiff=42577573oldid=42577394 [8] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overleg_gebruiker:Russavia#Image_on_Prostitutie_in_Thailand [9] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:9.000919_Pattaya_streetscene5.jpg ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Issue on Dutch Wikipedia in relation to BLP violating images
Michel, I agree the atmosphere there is extremely toxic. For the record, I have now been indefinitely blocked on Dutch Wikipedia for raising serious concerns on Commons about one of their clique. Concerns which involved incontrovertible evidence that they have been accessing materials on Commons which was deleted due to privacy concerns and then passed around to others who wouldn't otherwise have that access. The unfunny part about it all, is that this only came to light after I publicly told MoiraMoira that given it was me who deleted privacy related images on Commons as they related to her, she should have more understanding on issues when subjects of articles have complaints about images of themselves. It then lead to that evidence being provided to me within minutes. The person who provided me the evidence has also been indefinitely blocked on Dutch Wikipedia, ostensibly for providing me with the evidence which included the person's first name -- a first name that was well known to me by way of discussion many years ago when we introduced ourselves privately on IRC. So, I agree wholeheartedly about their abusive and toxic environment, and don't really take any notice to those on there who call me a troll, for it is those people on Dutch Wikipedia who are playing unacceptable games in outright violation of the WMF Board resolution. They think they are punishing me, they are not; they are punishing the subject of the article. Regards, Russavia On Sat, Nov 29, 2014 at 4:46 AM, Michel Vuijlsteke wikipe...@zog.org wrote: Quick and easy: don't bother with the Dutch Wikipedia. It is one of the more toxic environments on the internet. :) ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
