Re: [Wikimedia-l] Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?

2017-01-29 Thread Gerard Meijssen 
Hoi,
What I also said was that it is not good to expand the subject (in his own
thread) and thereby making it too unwieldy. Yes, I am appalled by the
current irrational behaviour and I did blog about this. But getting Mr
Bannon into this as well is too much. It is a bad argument in this thread
and I said as much.
Thanks,
 GerardM

On 29 January 2017 at 20:03, James Salsman  wrote:

> I just spoke with Gerard Meijssen, who gave me permission to quote him
> saying that both censorship of the internet and travel of Foundation
> employees are within the scope of the issues impacting the Mission,
> and that he has posted here with more information:
>
> http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.nl/2017/01/wikimedia-
> we-shall-overcome.html
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?

2017-01-29 Thread Rogol Domedonfors 
James

There has always been control of travel into the United States.  I have had
a colleague arrested at the airport and deported for the "crime" of
admitting that she expected to be paid by a university for a lecture she
had been invited to give.  That was a clear interference with the free flow
of information as well.  The difference is that you no longer agree with
the nature of that control.

"Rogol"

On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 7:03 PM, James Salsman  wrote:

> I just spoke with Gerard Meijssen, who gave me permission to quote him
> saying that both censorship of the internet and travel of Foundation
> employees are within the scope of the issues impacting the Mission,
> and that he has posted here with more information:
>
> http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.nl/2017/01/wikimedia-
> we-shall-overcome.html
>
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?

2017-01-29 Thread James Salsman 
I just spoke with Gerard Meijssen, who gave me permission to quote him
saying that both censorship of the internet and travel of Foundation
employees are within the scope of the issues impacting the Mission,
and that he has posted here with more information:

http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.nl/2017/01/wikimedia-we-shall-overcome.html

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?

2017-01-29 Thread Gerard Meijssen 
Hoi,
Yes.
Thanks,
  GerardM

On 29 January 2017 at 20:01, geni  wrote:

> On 29 January 2017 at 17:58, Gerard Meijssen 
> wrote:
> > Hoi,
> > Our movement is impacted by the new ukaze that prevents many of our staff
> > going home for a holiday or see their family and it prevents many members
> > of our movement to visit the office of the WMF. So it does have a serious
> > and negative impact on our efforts.
>
> Do does the WMF actually have any staff from the countries affected?
>
>
>
> --
> geni
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?

2017-01-29 Thread geni 
On 29 January 2017 at 17:58, Gerard Meijssen  wrote:
> Hoi,
> Our movement is impacted by the new ukaze that prevents many of our staff
> going home for a holiday or see their family and it prevents many members
> of our movement to visit the office of the WMF. So it does have a serious
> and negative impact on our efforts.

Do does the WMF actually have any staff from the countries affected?



-- 
geni

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?

2017-01-29 Thread geni 
On 29 January 2017 at 18:11, James Salsman  wrote:
> The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Director of National
> Intelligence have just been replaced on the National Security Council,
> by Steve Bannon, the editor of Breitbart News who has a long history
> of promoting white nationalist positions and centralized censorship of
> the internet:
>
> http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-attacks-plan-transfer-oversight-icann-from-us-wrong-censorship-2016-9


Yes we know. You want to talk politics? Fine lets talk politics. The
US right already tends to view us as rather left leaning. Cementing
that impression gains us a bunch of enemies and nothing else. A strike
by the WMF isn't going to impact them very much. You want a effective
general strike? Go talk to the power station workers and the
Electrical grid people not the WMF.



-- 
geni

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?

2017-01-29 Thread Gerard Meijssen 
Hoi,
Sorry James that is not in scope.
Thanks,
 GerardM

On 29 January 2017 at 19:11, James Salsman  wrote:

> > I'm alright with the WMF taking a position on issues when they're likely
> to
> > have a serious impact on the core mission of Wikimedia.
> > I fail to see how this is one of those things
>
> The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Director of National
> Intelligence have just been replaced on the National Security Council,
> by Steve Bannon, the editor of Breitbart News who has a long history
> of promoting white nationalist positions and centralized censorship of
> the internet:
>
> http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-attacks-plan-
> transfer-oversight-icann-from-us-wrong-censorship-2016-9
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?

2017-01-29 Thread James Salsman 
> I'm alright with the WMF taking a position on issues when they're likely to
> have a serious impact on the core mission of Wikimedia.
> I fail to see how this is one of those things

The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Director of National
Intelligence have just been replaced on the National Security Council,
by Steve Bannon, the editor of Breitbart News who has a long history
of promoting white nationalist positions and centralized censorship of
the internet:

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-attacks-plan-transfer-oversight-icann-from-us-wrong-censorship-2016-9

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?

2017-01-29 Thread Gerard Meijssen 
Hoi,
Our movement is impacted by the new ukaze that prevents many of our staff
going home for a holiday or see their family and it prevents many members
of our movement to visit the office of the WMF. So it does have a serious
and negative impact on our efforts.

When there is a national strike, it will affect staff to come to the
office. So going to work / not working are two distinct things here. Given
that we are negatively affected, there is no problem recognising this. When
you then consider that a negative perspective on muslims / Islam is
grounded in a lack of knowledge, we could recognise this and when we do see
this in a similar light as we see the gender gap. It is where we are
lacking and it is why people can easily take an advantage.

So strike maybe not. Sympathise and do something that helps our cause and
is not beneficial to those misrepresenting facts.. ABSOLUTELY.
Thanks,
   GerardM

On 29 January 2017 at 18:16, geni  wrote:

> On 29 January 2017 at 15:01, James Salsman  wrote:
> > Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?
> >
>
> No. This is very much a case where the foundation sits and waits.
>
>
> --
> geni
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?

2017-01-29 Thread Philippe Beaudette 
In addition to my previous message

This.

Rogol asks a reasonable question here, and one that concerns me.  The WMF
wields tremendous influence, and attempts to hijack that influence -
however well intentioned and well grounded - should always be stress tested.

On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 9:49 AM, Rogol Domedonfors 
wrote:

> James,
>
> Is there any special relevance to the mission of the Foundation here, or
> this is simply an attempt to use the resources of the Foundation to gain
> publicity for a political cause that you personally favour?
>
>
> "Rogol"
>
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 5:41 PM, James Salsman  wrote:
>
> > > No. This is very much a case where the foundation sits and waits.
> >
> > Please take this survey: https://plus.google.com/+
> > jsalsman/posts/HPav2YWUag3
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 8:01 AM, James Salsman 
> wrote:
> > > Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?
> > >
> > > https://twitter.com/trevortimm/status/825395993789157376
> > >
> > > https://twitter.com/ericgarland/status/825403294667436033
> > >
> > > I know this is an unusual question, but when is the last time that the
> > U.S.
> > > judiciary has deployed Federal Marshals against its own executive
> branch?
> > >
> > > https://professional-troublemaker.com/2017/01/29/
> > federal-judge-sends-u-s-marshals-to-prevent-trump-
> > from-enforcing-muslim-ban/
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Jim Salsman
> > >
> >
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-- 


Philippe Beaudette

phili...@beaudette.me
415-716-1795
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?

2017-01-29 Thread Philippe Beaudette 
I could see the Foundation making reasonable preparations against what may
be inevitable - backing up servers, off-site contingencies, etc - but I do
not see this as an issue where the WMF should be a leader in driving
influence.  The issue of a general strike is a generalized protest
against .  I see this as
somewhat different from the SOPA/PIPA issue in that there is no clear and
delineated threat to the WMF's existence - there is certainly a danger in
the form of troubling policy, and I personally am gravely concerned that
such a threat to the WMF's existence may materialize, but I don't yet see
an immediate single incident/issue/law/case that the WMF should take a
leadership role in advocacy against.

I'm prepared to be convinced otherwise, however.



On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 9:46 AM, Todd Allen  wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 8:01 AM, James Salsman  wrote:
>
> > Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?
> >
> > https://twitter.com/trevortimm/status/825395993789157376
> >
> > https://twitter.com/ericgarland/status/825403294667436033
> >
> > I know this is an unusual question, but when is the last time that the
> U.S.
> > judiciary has deployed Federal Marshals against its own executive branch?
> >
> > https://professional-troublemaker.com/2017/01/29/
> federal-judge-sends-u-s-
> > marshals-to-prevent-trump-from-enforcing-muslim-ban/
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Jim Salsman
>
>
> I'm alright with the WMF taking a position on issues when they're likely to
> have a serious impact on the core mission of Wikimedia.
>
> I fail to see how this is one of those things. The WMF is not a political
> advocacy organization.
>
> Todd
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>



-- 


Philippe Beaudette

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415-716-1795
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?

2017-01-29 Thread Rogol Domedonfors 
James,

Is there any special relevance to the mission of the Foundation here, or
this is simply an attempt to use the resources of the Foundation to gain
publicity for a political cause that you personally favour?


"Rogol"

On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 5:41 PM, James Salsman  wrote:

> > No. This is very much a case where the foundation sits and waits.
>
> Please take this survey: https://plus.google.com/+
> jsalsman/posts/HPav2YWUag3
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 8:01 AM, James Salsman  wrote:
> > Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?
> >
> > https://twitter.com/trevortimm/status/825395993789157376
> >
> > https://twitter.com/ericgarland/status/825403294667436033
> >
> > I know this is an unusual question, but when is the last time that the
> U.S.
> > judiciary has deployed Federal Marshals against its own executive branch?
> >
> > https://professional-troublemaker.com/2017/01/29/
> federal-judge-sends-u-s-marshals-to-prevent-trump-
> from-enforcing-muslim-ban/
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Jim Salsman
> >
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?

2017-01-29 Thread Todd Allen 
On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 8:01 AM, James Salsman  wrote:

> Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?
>
> https://twitter.com/trevortimm/status/825395993789157376
>
> https://twitter.com/ericgarland/status/825403294667436033
>
> I know this is an unusual question, but when is the last time that the U.S.
> judiciary has deployed Federal Marshals against its own executive branch?
>
> https://professional-troublemaker.com/2017/01/29/federal-judge-sends-u-s-
> marshals-to-prevent-trump-from-enforcing-muslim-ban/
>
> Best regards,
> Jim Salsman


I'm alright with the WMF taking a position on issues when they're likely to
have a serious impact on the core mission of Wikimedia.

I fail to see how this is one of those things. The WMF is not a political
advocacy organization.

Todd
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?

2017-01-29 Thread James Salsman 
> No. This is very much a case where the foundation sits and waits.

Please take this survey: https://plus.google.com/+jsalsman/posts/HPav2YWUag3


On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 8:01 AM, James Salsman  wrote:
> Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?
>
> https://twitter.com/trevortimm/status/825395993789157376
>
> https://twitter.com/ericgarland/status/825403294667436033
>
> I know this is an unusual question, but when is the last time that the U.S.
> judiciary has deployed Federal Marshals against its own executive branch?
>
> https://professional-troublemaker.com/2017/01/29/federal-judge-sends-u-s-marshals-to-prevent-trump-from-enforcing-muslim-ban/
>
> Best regards,
> Jim Salsman
>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?

2017-01-29 Thread geni 
On 29 January 2017 at 15:01, James Salsman  wrote:
> Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?
>

No. This is very much a case where the foundation sits and waits.


-- 
geni

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[Wikimedia-l] Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?

2017-01-29 Thread James Salsman 
Should the Foundation take a position on a general strike?

https://twitter.com/trevortimm/status/825395993789157376

https://twitter.com/ericgarland/status/825403294667436033

I know this is an unusual question, but when is the last time that the U.S.
judiciary has deployed Federal Marshals against its own executive branch?

https://professional-troublemaker.com/2017/01/29/federal-judge-sends-u-s-marshals-to-prevent-trump-from-enforcing-muslim-ban/

Best regards,
Jim Salsman
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