[Wikimediaau-l] Anyone else want the job of wikimediaau-l list admin?
At present it's literally only me as wikimediaau-l list admin. This is less than ideal, i.e. I can't guarantee any sort of consistent service. It fell to me when everyone actually in Australia quit after some spurious legal threats. So that's the threat model ... Anyone want to volunteer as backup? The workload is absolutely minimal, i.e. I just let through a large message and that's the first thing I had to do in months if not years. But it'd be a good idea to have more than one person. [cc'ing wikimedia-l to cast a wider net] - d. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Apparently corrupt administration of this list
On 18 March 2014 10:49, John Mark Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: While legal threats are banned on the wiki projects, the mailing lists are managed differently, and there are differences in expectations of behaviour (and dispute resolution) for the mailing lists. Personally I'd consider legal threats in the general case a kicking offence, for the same reason as on the wikis. (ATM I appear to be the listadmin. Bitten by my own law: The reward for a job well done is another three jobs. I don't even live in Australia, so I'm probably not the best person to be sole admin - any volunteers? Perhaps you, John ...) I am also scratching my head about whether the WMF mailing lists are covered by the WMF terms of use. Perhaps not. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Terms_of_use#What_services_are_covered_by_the_terms_of_use I'd be amazed if not explicitly listing the mailing lists meant that blatantly antisocial behaviour - such as we're witnessing here - was just fine. - d. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Apparently corrupt administration of this list
For now I've put the following text on the listinfo page: Posters are expected to conduct themselves in a decorous manner appropriate to a working list. Posters not doing so may be moderated or removed. The list moderators' decision is final. I'd expect personal attacks or legal threats would violate the first sentence. Per the second sentence, I've just put Tony on moderation (not kicked, but on moderation); no more legal threats or anything like one will be let through. Note the third sentence. Now, let's take this opportunity to be lovely to each other! - d. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Apparently corrupt administration of this list
On 18 March 2014 22:33, Lyle Allan lylea...@bigpond.net.au wrote: Surely there should be a right of appeal. Just removing someone from a list on the sayso of one person is something that should not be acceptable. That's why a second admin would be an idea. OTOH, don't be a dick is the fundamental meta-rule of all social spaces. - d. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Apparently corrupt administration of this list
Steven's answer looked complete and apposite to me. On 17 March 2014 12:49, Russavia russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com wrote: Moving on, and bringing it back to what is important, Steven, can you please address the questions which have been asked of you. Cheers Scotty On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Steven Zhang steven.zh...@wikimedia.org.au wrote: Hi all, Just to confirm, this was a deliberate removal and not a technical error. Two brief points here: 1. This was not a unilateral action that I took - it was a discussion that the committee had in its January meeting, and decided on as a whole, in addition to being a decision that was made between another list administrator and myself. WMF staff have also been consulted and had no issues with the action taken. 2. We welcome discussion about the organisation, and having differing opinions is perfectly fine, but actively disrupting the list is against both the rules and spirit of the list, and always has been. The former member concerned has engaged in repeated personal attacks on a number of individuals, and it had reached a point where we were receiving complaints from members, along with other members resigning from the organisation due to the conduct on the mailing list. This list amongst other things is intended for use as a method for Australian community members (including but not limited to Wikimedia Australia members) to collaborate and communicate. In practice most of that has been regarding activities of the chapter. In order for it to be used for those purposes, it needs to be a safe and constructive space. Admin action was taken only to ensure that this continued to be the case. As always, the committee encourages feedback and input wherever possible if it can be of benefit to the organisation, and if you as members have any questions or concerns we encourage you to discuss them with us. As an organisation over the past few years we have too often engaged in conflict with each other rather than work with each other, and it's something that we as a committee hope to change. Regards, -- Steven Zhang President - Wikimedia Australia steven.zh...@wikimedia.org.au On 16 March 2014 18:45, John Mark Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 1:53 PM, Sam Wilson s...@samwilson.id.au wrote: Yeah, Hanlon's razor perhaps should be remembered here! :-) Not that I mean to imply any incompetence on the part of the list administrators, but I do imagine that it's more likely that someone's made a mistake here and is not being actively mean. Unfortunately Tony's allegations are spot on. For background, Nathan Carter handed over the list admin to me in January 2013 when he needed to shift his load around. I added Charles Gregory as list admin in October 2013. Without consultation with me, Steven Zhang was added as list admin. I dont know when. Charles, did you add Steven as list admin, or was the WMF involved in that? I've quickly spoken with Steven about Tony being put on the kill list, and received confirmation both him and from Charles. They acted as a majority of list admins, without informing me, but with approval from the Wikimedia Australia committee and after discussion with a Wikimedia Foundation staff member. It seems it happened in January, in response to the emails Tony sent to the list in that month: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaau-l/2014-January/003979.html Steven Zhang was the person responsible for performing the kill list addition. I dont think that Tony's emails warranted this type of response. Putting a respected member of our community on a kill list will neither be particularly successful at silencing criticism, nor is the kill list the appropriate tool - moderation would have been the tool to use if Tony was being disruptive, and direct private discussion between Tony and moderators didn't result in a better path forward. Typically the kill list is used for spammers and people who are banned from Wikimedia projects and are being disruptive on the mailing lists. That does not apply to Tony. It is rude to take these types of moderator actions without informing the person involved, and informing other list admins even after the fact if the action needed to be taken quickly to maintain decorum on the list. Steven and Charles are a bit vague on the details of how this happened, so it is possible that not everyone who was consulted did actually agree to Tony being put on a kill list, and I hope most of them had envisaged that it was going to be implemented with with utmost care for a volunteer that they strive to serve and support. I hope the WMAU committee will give a more detailed explanation of their involvement in this. To everyone who did knowingly agree to Tony being put on a kill list: whether for incompetence, bad communication, or some other excuse - I dont care why - you
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Apparently corrupt administration of this list
On 16 March 2014 15:45, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: So I would suggest for the future (1) when kicking someone, say so and why (unless there's a really good reason not to) (2) have a mix of list admins. I'll note also we have occasionally put people on moderation when they're getting particularly obnoxious or verging on legal threats, generally without public notice of such to avoid the appearance of public shaming, though only on a temporary basis. It's all a tricky one and you'll never satisfy every querulous blowhard. - d. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Drama
On 16 March 2014 16:25, Russavia russavia.wikipe...@gmail.com wrote: Can you possibly explain how John doing the RIGHT thing would be a wheel war. Personally I'd kick you both off and say so, but that's just speaking as a third-party observer. It's not a *right* to post to a Wikimedia list. - d. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] large collection of historic Australian photos found by UK archives
On 31 January 2013 04:39, Kerry Raymond kerry.raym...@gmail.com wrote:
I notice that all the ones I have looked at are labelled “no known copyright
restrictions”. Would that translate to {{PD-Australia}} for uploading to
Commons?
That's not a guarantee. You'd need to consider each one.
- d.
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Re: [Wikimediaau-l] [wmau:members] Wiki Takes Freo and Joondalup
On 13 November 2011 06:09, Andrew Owens orderinchao...@gmail.com wrote: One of the interesting opportunities arising from it is the possible collaboration with Picture Joondalup, a CC (restricted :( ) licenced collection of photos - mostly historical - that they've been building themselves. As they're pretty keen on maintaining the licencing it already has, I'm not sure where to move with this one, but would be keen on ideas. Cherry-picking interesting ones and asking individually about CC by-sa? Note the advantages in terms of links back giving them something to brag about in their next grant application? - d. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Meeting with the ABC next week
On 1 June 2011 03:22, Liam Wyatt liamwy...@gmail.com wrote: 1) I'd like to show them how Al Jazeera is publishing some of their footage under cc-by and see whether ABC could feasibly do the same http://cc.aljazeera.net/ Ye. 2) I'd like to see if the ABC News website would like to add in Wikipedia Citation template code to it's pages, to make it easier for people to footnote Australian news stories in WP. I'll be showing them how the National Library of Australia already does this with their digitised newspaper collection (e.g. http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/628050 - click on the cite button near the top left). I recall the ABC news site previously suffering a lot of temporary pages that disappeared after a time. Do they now keep everything forever, as e.g. the BBC do? 3) Point out to them how they can, if they want, use Wikinews content even more freely that Wikipedia because it is CC-BY. A bit of love for the non-Wikipedia projects is always good :-) There are of course, no shortage of other potential things that the ABC and Wikimedia could do, so if you've got something that you really want put on the table please tell us. So do you know what the feel of the place towards Wikipedia and free culture in general is? Around the BBC it's a real cultural divide, bubbling under the mostly-united surface, between those who think it's *obvious* everything should be as free as possible, and those who think it's *obvious* this is regrettably impossible. - d. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Bringing the wiki model to digitisation
Are any of the GLAMs actually archiving their preciouss high-resolution scans *offsite*? - d. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
[Wikimediaau-l] Fwd: [Foundation-l] GLAM and why use Wikimedia Commons
John is part of Wikimedia Norway. What sort of thing do museum liaison volunteers sell the idea of free to museums with? Please answer on foundation-l :-) - d. -- Forwarded message -- From: John at Darkstar vac...@jeb.no Date: 2009/7/13 Subject: [Foundation-l] GLAM and why use Wikimedia Commons To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundatio...@lists.wikimedia.org Is it possible to find some common grounds on why and how a GLAM-organization should use Wikimedia Commons? Forget about troublesome disputes with specific organizations. Why should they use us and is it possible for us to tell them how to better utilize our services? What are our services? Perhaps we need a sales department... ;) John ___ foundation-l mailing list foundatio...@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] relavent to GLAM
On 11/07/2009, Andrew orderinchao...@gmail.com wrote: Agreed with Gnangarra - I think if we approach them on agreeable terms and recognise that they have needs too that need to be factored in, and that we can fill them in on what we need and work out how that can be accommodated as well, then everyone can gain from it. The successful approaches are always win-win. Absolutely. (The NPG is a special case. Their current publicity - and their legal threat letter - on this matter contain a number of important provable lies about their willingness to negotiate. They're in this for a battle and are not behaving reasonably in any way.) CC by-sa, with big thank yous to the institutions, has worked for a lot of places so should be a reasonably easy sale. - d. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] relavent to GLAM
On 11/07/2009, private musings thepmacco...@gmail.com wrote: This is rather important + serious stuff which relates to the 'GLAM' sector - hopefully we'll be leading the way in ensuring good communication may help resolve problems like this; (basically a Commons user has received a legal letter relating to uploads of photographs of gallery items) http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Dcoetzee/NPG_legal_threat, It doesn't help that the NPG's actions (a UK org threatening a US citizen with legal action over actions that are unambiguously not a copyright violation of any sort in US law) are, how do I put this, FRANKLY INSANE. I made a quick summary blog post: http://davidgerard.co.uk/notes/2009/07/11/sue-and-be-damned/ Note that another notable UK museum, the VA, took the opposite tack: open their collections, spread their name and pictures of their exhibits, reap the publicity. (The VA is fantastic, and no photo can substitute for seeing the stuff in real life.) So the thing is really: how to convince museums and galleries to open up, use us for free publicity and spreading their good name ... and not act batshit insane like the NPG appears to be. - d. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Phorm opt-out for wikimedia.org.au?
2009/4/30 Brian Salter-Duke b_d...@bigpond.net.au: I would certainly support you doing this and I do not think it will be disputed as the WMF and larger chatpers with more web presence have done so. However, perhaps the committee needs to discuss it. Most of the point of doing so is to do so publicly, so that it can be stated The board resolved that wikimedia.org.au should be opted-out of Phorm and requested Angela Beesley to send the opt-out notice. Then ORG can mention lots of chapter opt-outs on their blog and we all look good, ORG looks good and Phorm continues to look like Phorm ;-) - d. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Fwd: ABC's 'PM' covering Wikipedia Flagged Revs proposal
2009/1/29 YellowMonkey blnguyen2...@gmail.com: I did use YellowMonkey I just didn't say my roles are. Casliber and Chuq did the same Yes, I saw that :-) You all did fine IMO. - d. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Fwd: ABC's 'PM' covering Wikipedia Flagged Revs proposal
2009/1/28 YellowMonkey blnguyen2...@gmail.com: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/28/2476045.htm I went on the attack in the forum, although I didn't declare who I was I suggest, in general, be open about who you are and what you do. (I comment frequently on blog posts about Wikipedia with my name and speaking in terms of us, adding that I'm an en:wp editor/administrator and/or WMF volunteer media contact as appropriate.) Same as we'd expect of involved people commenting on a Wikipedia article talk page. - d. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] contacting external people
2009/1/16 Gnangarra gnanga...@gmail.com: WM-au neds an ID system and if we want to be more serious some form of accreditation system for photographers to attend these kind of thing. The reason is that we are then establishing that the person is a member of the association and that association has no issue with the person contact them as such. Accerditation will also ensure that the person is actually going to use and release the photographs under a free license via one of the projects rather than get access and then just sell the images. Are there Wikinews-accredited Wikinewsies in Australia? They'd be good quick first choices. - d. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Opinion piece on DVD copy protection: Collateral damage in video war by Max Barry
2009/1/12 Brianna Laugher brianna.laug...@gmail.com: There's a nice piece by Max Barry (author of Jennifer Government) in the Age, as well as on his blog, about how production companies using copy protection is breaking their own DVDs and converting paying customers into pirates. http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/collateral-damage-in--video-war-20090110-7e0x.html?page=-1 http://www.maxbarry.com/2008/12/29/news.html No shit. Tonight I watched a DVD by means other than playing it in VLC and was appalled how much crap I had to sit through first. You try that when you're only playing the video to placate a toddler. - d. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Wikipedia and schools
Best approach is the way this was compiled: get a wikiproject of Australians together, use the power of the wiki. Then it needs a dedicated group to work at it. WMAU will help as a name to talk to schools etc. about what they'd like. The SOS selection is based on the English national curriculum, someone could assemble a suitable mix of the various state standard curricula. - d. 2008/12/10 private musings [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This is a great idea, I reckon - and I've got a few other ideas that might be interesting around this! (more anon) - it's interesting (to me anyways) to note though that recommending a 'schools wikipedia' does kind of imply that the actual wikipedia might not be a good fit for schools - doesn't it? 2008/12/11 Orderinchaos78 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Perhaps that's something the WMA could commit to working towards? I think that would be quite a reasonable outcome. 2008/12/10 Craig Franklin [EMAIL PROTECTED] I really like this product, but maybe we should look at providing a tweaked version for Australian schools with more Australian topics (ie: less American Presidents and more Australian Prime Ministers). From: David Gerard [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://schools-wikipedia.org/ ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] Quiet campaign on freely licensed politicians photos
2008/11/20 Stephen Bain [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Or lobby the government to have AUSPIC release the official headshots that they take of all of them. I remember that someone asked them about the pictures years ago but they wouldn't release them themselves; it might be better to go to the government instead. Failing that yes, the parties do keep headshots of all their people for use on the party websites, for example, which would suit us fine. Worth comparing to the US? All US federal politician official headshots are public domain, so we can just use them, and there's a strong preference for the official shot as the main photo. If we can free up the Australian ones, we can have as good coverage. - d. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
