Steven's answer looked complete and apposite to me.
On 17 March 2014 12:49, Russavia <[email protected]> wrote: > Moving on, and bringing it back to what is important, Steven, can you please > address the questions which have been asked of you. > > Cheers > > Scotty > > > On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Steven Zhang > <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> >> Just to confirm, this was a deliberate removal and not a technical error. >> Two brief points here: >> >> >> >> 1. This was not a unilateral action that I took - it was a discussion that >> the committee had in its January meeting, and decided on as a whole, in >> addition to being a decision that was made between another list >> administrator and myself. WMF staff have also been consulted and had no >> issues with the action taken. >> >> >> 2. We welcome discussion about the organisation, and having differing >> opinions is perfectly fine, but actively disrupting the list is against both >> the rules and spirit of the list, and always has been. The former member >> concerned has engaged in repeated personal attacks on a number of >> individuals, and it had reached a point where we were receiving complaints >> from members, along with other members resigning from the organisation due >> to the conduct on the mailing list. >> >> >> >> This list amongst other things is intended for use as a method for >> Australian community members (including but not limited to Wikimedia >> Australia members) to collaborate and communicate. In practice most of that >> has been regarding activities of the chapter. In order for it to be used for >> those purposes, it needs to be a safe and constructive space. Admin action >> was taken only to ensure that this continued to be the case. >> >> >> >> As always, the committee encourages feedback and input wherever possible >> if it can be of benefit to the organisation, and if you as members have any >> questions or concerns we encourage you to discuss them with us. As an >> organisation over the past few years we have too often engaged in conflict >> with each other rather than work with each other, and it's something that we >> as a committee hope to change. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> -- >> Steven Zhang >> President - Wikimedia Australia >> [email protected] >> >> On 16 March 2014 18:45, John Mark Vandenberg <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 1:53 PM, Sam Wilson <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > Yeah, Hanlon's razor perhaps should be remembered here! :-) Not that I >>> > mean >>> > to imply any incompetence on the part of the list administrators, but I >>> > do >>> > imagine that it's more likely that someone's made a mistake here and is >>> > not >>> > being actively mean. >>> >>> Unfortunately Tony's allegations are spot on. >>> >>> For background, Nathan Carter handed over the list admin to me in >>> January 2013 when he needed to shift his load around. I added Charles >>> Gregory as list admin in October 2013. Without consultation with me, >>> Steven Zhang was added as list admin. I dont know when. Charles, did >>> you add Steven as list admin, or was the WMF involved in that? >>> >>> I've quickly spoken with Steven about Tony being put on the kill list, >>> and received confirmation both him and from Charles. They acted as a >>> majority of list admins, without informing me, but with approval from >>> the Wikimedia Australia committee and after discussion with a >>> Wikimedia Foundation staff member. It seems it happened in January, >>> in response to the emails Tony sent to the list in that month: >>> >>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaau-l/2014-January/003979.html >>> Steven Zhang was the person responsible for performing the kill list >>> addition. >>> >>> I dont think that Tony's emails warranted this type of response. >>> Putting a respected member of our community on a kill list will >>> neither be particularly successful at silencing criticism, nor is the >>> kill list the appropriate tool - moderation would have been the tool >>> to use if Tony was being disruptive, and direct private discussion >>> between Tony and moderators didn't result in a better path forward. >>> >>> Typically the kill list is used for spammers and people who are banned >>> from Wikimedia projects and are being disruptive on the mailing lists. >>> That does not apply to Tony. >>> >>> It is rude to take these types of moderator actions without informing >>> the person involved, and informing other list admins even after the >>> fact if the action needed to be taken quickly to maintain decorum on >>> the list. >>> >>> Steven and Charles are a bit vague on the details of how this >>> happened, so it is possible that not everyone who was consulted did >>> actually agree to Tony being put on a kill list, and I hope most of >>> them had envisaged that it was going to be implemented with with >>> utmost care for a volunteer that they strive to serve and support. I >>> hope the WMAU committee will give a more detailed explanation of their >>> involvement in this. To everyone who did knowingly agree to Tony >>> being put on a kill list: whether for incompetence, bad communication, >>> or some other excuse - I dont care why - you _should_ be ashamed of >>> yourselves. >>> >>> This is a good time to have someone else, outside of the current >>> committee, step up to be list admin again so that this list does not >>> become effectively controlled by Wikimedia Australia, as we've now >>> seen the organisation will stoop to censorship of this list. >>> >>> -- >>> John Vandenberg >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimediaau-l mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimediaau-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimediaau-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l > _______________________________________________ Wikimediaau-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
