Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Revitalising the Wikimedia India chapter
On 18 April 2014 12:03, Asaf Bartov abar...@wikimedia.org wrote: This is in response to WMIN not being granted the full amount it has requested via the Annual Plan Grants process[1]. Since funds are available relatively plentifully at the movement level, and since WMF is strategically interested in promoting the mission in India, I would argue a better (and easier!) solution would be to address the likely sources of misalignment between WMIN's expectations and thinking and those of WMF and the FDC[2]. In general, are Chapters expected to focus on what the goals of the WMF and FDC are? Or are they free to chart their own course about things that they believe are important to the geographies they serve? And if they don't toe the WMF/FDC policy/strategy line then they don't get money? How does this foster any sort of independence? ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Revitalising the Wikimedia India chapter
Hoi, Independence is just that. When you can get money when you focus on certain goals, you will when you do. When you want to go a different route, you may but that is your route and funding for it is your responsibility as well. Given what a chapter is, I would expect that it has ample scope to explore its own territory and seek its own priorities. My question is, when a chapter moves outside of what WMF / FDC is funding, to what extend is it still and does it deserve to be the chapter of the WMF? Thanks, Gerard On 28 April 2014 08:51, Gautam John gau...@akshara.org.in wrote: On 18 April 2014 12:03, Asaf Bartov abar...@wikimedia.org wrote: This is in response to WMIN not being granted the full amount it has requested via the Annual Plan Grants process[1]. Since funds are available relatively plentifully at the movement level, and since WMF is strategically interested in promoting the mission in India, I would argue a better (and easier!) solution would be to address the likely sources of misalignment between WMIN's expectations and thinking and those of WMF and the FDC[2]. In general, are Chapters expected to focus on what the goals of the WMF and FDC are? Or are they free to chart their own course about things that they believe are important to the geographies they serve? And if they don't toe the WMF/FDC policy/strategy line then they don't get money? How does this foster any sort of independence? ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Revitalising the Wikimedia India chapter
On 28 April 2014 12:45, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote: Independence is just that. When you can get money when you focus on certain goals, you will when you do. When you want to go a different route, you may but that is your route and funding for it is your responsibility as well. That's fair enough, Gerard. It was this One point I'd beg to differ on, though, right from the start, is your suggestion that WMIN focus on raising funds independently: that I was referring to. Thank you. Best, Gautam http://www.akshara.org.in/ ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Revitalising the Wikimedia India chapter
Hi Gerard, I know a chapter in Europe, where probably you come from, which doesn't depend on WMF's grant or funds as it has raised a huge amount on its own. That chapter, WMUK, is still considered WMF chapter if I am not mistaking. Also, the need for WMIN to raise its own funds has arisen because of WMF's FDC's decision to not fund it and fund another private organisation. I hope this helps you to understand what's being discussed. Regards, Dhaval On 28 Apr 2014 08:16, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote: Hoi, Independence is just that. When you can get money when you focus on certain goals, you will when you do. When you want to go a different route, you may but that is your route and funding for it is your responsibility as well. Given what a chapter is, I would expect that it has ample scope to explore its own territory and seek its own priorities. My question is, when a chapter moves outside of what WMF / FDC is funding, to what extend is it still and does it deserve to be the chapter of the WMF? Thanks, Gerard On 28 April 2014 08:51, Gautam John gau...@akshara.org.in wrote: On 18 April 2014 12:03, Asaf Bartov abar...@wikimedia.org wrote: This is in response to WMIN not being granted the full amount it has requested via the Annual Plan Grants process[1]. Since funds are available relatively plentifully at the movement level, and since WMF is strategically interested in promoting the mission in India, I would argue a better (and easier!) solution would be to address the likely sources of misalignment between WMIN's expectations and thinking and those of WMF and the FDC[2]. In general, are Chapters expected to focus on what the goals of the WMF and FDC are? Or are they free to chart their own course about things that they believe are important to the geographies they serve? And if they don't toe the WMF/FDC policy/strategy line then they don't get money? How does this foster any sort of independence? ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Revitalising the Wikimedia India chapter
Hoi, I am from the Netherlands and, its chapter is very much depended on WMF money. Fundraising is NOT its strong point.. If you are interested in a chapter that has its own revenue stream look at Poland. I do know that the Indian chapter did not receive the funding it looked for and, personally I dislike the arguments used. However, what I do see is that there is unnecessary rivalry between CIS and the chapter. Unnecessary because they do and should aim for the same goal. Given the size of India, the combined funding is really small and given the size of India there are many, many more opportunities once everything is said and done. The energy that goes in fighting CIS is energy wasted. CIS has a limited mandate in time and when the chapter and CIS find it in themselves to work together it is more than likely that the CIS projects and funding will find a home under the India chapter umbrella. I applaud you for wanting to raise funds that will make up the shortfall because of the limited WMF funding. The point of those projects is to achieve its goals. So define the best goals and projects you can. Find the money and expose the WMF arguments by doing a better job than they do. Thanks, GerardM On 28 April 2014 09:29, Dhaval S. Vyas dsv...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Gerard, I know a chapter in Europe, where probably you come from, which doesn't depend on WMF's grant or funds as it has raised a huge amount on its own. That chapter, WMUK, is still considered WMF chapter if I am not mistaking. Also, the need for WMIN to raise its own funds has arisen because of WMF's FDC's decision to not fund it and fund another private organisation. I hope this helps you to understand what's being discussed. Regards, Dhaval On 28 Apr 2014 08:16, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com wrote: Hoi, Independence is just that. When you can get money when you focus on certain goals, you will when you do. When you want to go a different route, you may but that is your route and funding for it is your responsibility as well. Given what a chapter is, I would expect that it has ample scope to explore its own territory and seek its own priorities. My question is, when a chapter moves outside of what WMF / FDC is funding, to what extend is it still and does it deserve to be the chapter of the WMF? Thanks, Gerard On 28 April 2014 08:51, Gautam John gau...@akshara.org.in wrote: On 18 April 2014 12:03, Asaf Bartov abar...@wikimedia.org wrote: This is in response to WMIN not being granted the full amount it has requested via the Annual Plan Grants process[1]. Since funds are available relatively plentifully at the movement level, and since WMF is strategically interested in promoting the mission in India, I would argue a better (and easier!) solution would be to address the likely sources of misalignment between WMIN's expectations and thinking and those of WMF and the FDC[2]. In general, are Chapters expected to focus on what the goals of the WMF and FDC are? Or are they free to chart their own course about things that they believe are important to the geographies they serve? And if they don't toe the WMF/FDC policy/strategy line then they don't get money? How does this foster any sort of independence? ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
[Wikimediaindia-l] Vikaspedia: reaching the unreached in India
Anyone seen or know of this? Found it by accident from this article: http://discover.isif.asia/2014/02/will-india-succeed-where-wikipedia-has-failed/ Wondering what it means for these language wikipedias - is there an opportunity for collaboration? Best Bishakha ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Vikaspedia: reaching the unreached in India
Hoi, Seriously, do you want to make a difference.. Is there room to make an effort? Do we dare to? We are very set in our ways. The WMF has an ingrained way of doing more of the same thing but better. There are opportunities that are not realised because the moment is not there yet. We could do to inject a bit more wiki in our Wikis.. What we do is very much a set practice with minor variations. When we want to make a difference in India or elsewher we can. But it is not necessarily done by doing more of the same and it certainly does not get done with the prevailing Wikipedia only mentality. Still, interested? Let us talk directly.. When you think I may be on to something having heard what I have to say, you can make my ideas your own and I will be proud of you when they get realised. Thanks, GerardM On 28 April 2014 12:28, Bishakha Datta bishakhada...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone seen or know of this? Found it by accident from this article: http://discover.isif.asia/2014/02/will-india-succeed-where-wikipedia-has-failed/ Wondering what it means for these language wikipedias - is there an opportunity for collaboration? Best Bishakha ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Vikaspedia: reaching the unreached in India
Hi, On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Bishakha Datta bishakhada...@gmail.comwrote: Anyone seen or know of this? Found it by accident from this article: http://discover.isif.asia/2014/02/will-india-succeed-where-wikipedia-has-failed/ Wondering what it means for these language wikipedias - is there an opportunity for collaboration? I had known from its early days when it was called *India development gateway* and also interacted with them for potential collaboration. Indian language Wikipedias are certainly better off in terms of page views as can be seen from my analysis given below done in 2012. In March 2010, unique visitor count was 2630. It increased to 4460 by Mar 2011. For all 8 languages put together average daily page views are 13350. For Telugu wikipedia alone, daily page views are 8 as on July 2012. Please note the time periods are based on the data available and are not exactly comparable, but they indicate rough status. Cheers Arjuna 1. CDAC annual report 2010-11, page 47 http://www.cdac.in/html/pdf/FINAL%20English%20Annual%20Report%202010-11.pdf 2. Telugu Wikipedia page views as observed on July 2, 2012 for the period http://stats.wikimedia.org/EN_India/TablesPageViewsMonthlyCombined.htm ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Urdu Wikipedia crosses the 50, 000 mark (reply to Asaf Bartov)
Thanks, Muzammil, but I feel we're still in the dark. A coordinated approach does suggest that whatever was done was done in coordination within the community -- and that's very important -- but it doesn't tell us what form that approach took: was it a coordinated plan to activate a bot to create stubs, as has been hypothesized? (That is certainly an acceptable answer.) If so, was there any other component, beside bot creation of articles, or was that the extent of the coordinated approach? (if there's any Urdu speaker who can shed more light on this, please do.) Thanks. A. On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 11:48 AM, muzammil muzam...@cis-india.org wrote: Dear Asaf, As far as my knowledge goes, it was a coordinated approach of the editors. The counts includes all types of articles including stubs. Muzammil Can you tell us a little more about this increase? Urdu Wikipedia had ~27.5k articles in February. Much bot-generated content? Thanks, Asaf ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Revitalising the Wikimedia India chapter
On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 12:29 AM, Dhaval S. Vyas dsv...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Gerard, I know a chapter in Europe, where probably you come from, which doesn't depend on WMF's grant or funds as it has raised a huge amount on its own. That chapter, WMUK, is still considered WMF chapter if I am not mistaking. This is incorrect. The majority of funds raised by WMUK was raised via the annual wiki-banner-based fundraiser, and is movement funding, granted to WMUK via the FDC process. Also, the need for WMIN to raise its own funds has arisen because of WMF's FDC's decision to not fund it and fund another private organisation. This is also incorrect. The FDC _did_ recommend to fund WMIN this year, albeit at a much reduced amount[1]. While this is no doubt disappointing to WMIN, it is funding nonetheless, and is at a scale similar to the funding WMIN had received this past year via the Project and Event Grants (PEG) program[2][3]. And the FDC has _not_ funded another organization (yet). It is currently evaluating a proposal by another organization -- CIS -- but whatever it decides regarding this proposal, it is entirely independent of its decisions, present and future, about proposals from WMIN. Crucially, the funding CIS is applying to receive (and has been receiving in the past grant), is _by no means_ at the expense of WMIN, nor vice versa. There is enough money to fund both organizations' work in India, to the degree they propose compelling program plans. This is not a zero-sum game, and money granted to organization A is not at the expense of organization B. While the total envelope of funds the FDC has to allocate is finite, it has never been the case so far that organization A was short-changed despite a compelling plan because money has run out due to funding organization B. I hope this helps you to understand what's being discussed. Actually, these repeated half-truths are no doubt making it more difficult for those reading these discussions to understand. I recognize that you are all volunteers and don't have the time (or inclination) to closely follow the Annual Plan Grants (FDC) process or to double-check your statements about what past practice has been, and I gladly undertake to provide accurate information where corrections are needed. But I would encourage you all to either make more of an effort to get your facts right in advance of making a statement (rather than relying on second-hand accounts), _or_ to favor asking questions to making assertions, to avoid misleading responses such as the one above. (I allege no bad faith here, of course!) Cheers, Asaf [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:APG/FDC_portal/FDC_recommendations/2013-2014_round1 [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:PEG/WM_IN/Program_Grant_Quarter_1_2013 [3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:PEG/WM_IN/Program_Grant_April_December_2013 -- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Revitalising the Wikimedia India chapter
On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 11:51 PM, Gautam John gau...@akshara.org.in wrote: In general, are Chapters expected to focus on what the goals of the WMF and FDC are? Or are they free to chart their own course about things that they believe are important to the geographies they serve? And if they don't toe the WMF/FDC policy/strategy line then they don't get money? How does this foster any sort of independence? To put it simply: 1. Chapters are free to set their own course and come up with their own strategy, goals, and annual plans. They are thus independent. 2. Chapters that want to avail themselves of _movement funds_ -- a relatively plentiful and relatively accessible source of funding -- do need to propose compelling plans with at least a considerable emphasis on the goals identified as strategic goals for Wikimedia. They are still free to pursue specific programs and interests that are a good match for their context -- regional, organizational, and motivational (i.e. what their own volunteers are most motivated to work on). The balance between definitely-strategic and perhaps-less-strategic-but-making-sense-in-context initiatives needs to be a reasonable one, and to be reasonably argued for, but it can certainly be done. 3. In my earlier comments, I was suggesting that WMIN _not_ forego movement funding, because, in my opinion, its actual goals and its volunteer base _are not_ in fact too divergent from movement goals and WMF's expectations. I asserted that the abiding disagreement between WMF and WMIN is much more around the _how_ than the _what_, and that that disagreement can be surmounted. (I acknowledge, however, that it has so far seen little positive development: despite much investment of time and effort from both sides, and multiple channels (including face to face conversations) attempted, neither side has accepted the other's expectations so far.) I remain interested, as mentioned earlier on this thread, to engage with WMIN on a more constructive note, on a path toward greater credibility and confidence in WMIN from WMF; such a path would need to go through realistic growth planning, demonstrable community engagement and support, and some sustained record of success. In a way, the latest round of discussions with WMIN has resulted in something along those lines, at least in terms of WMIN's current plans and three short-term focuses (I wonder if they were shared with this list -- if not, perhaps the EC would consider doing so). I remain frankly skeptical of WMIN's ability to execute those plans in terms of volunteer engagement (and even EC/board engagement), but I would be _delighted_ to be proven too pessimistic. I am happy to discuss more strategic planning (as distinct from the three short-term focuses) any time, if WMIN's current leadership would show interest. Cheers, Asaf -- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Revitalising the Wikimedia India chapter
Hello Asaf, On 29 April 2014 01:00, Asaf Bartov abar...@wikimedia.org wrote: snip I asserted that the abiding disagreement between WMF and WMIN is much more around the _how_ than the _what_, and that that disagreement can be snip Can you please elaborate a bit more on the disagreement of 'how' Thanks Vikram ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
