[Wikitech-l] Re: Why does the train start on Tuesday?

[Jeremy Baron]

This makes me wonder if there could ever be a way to allow some requests to
be on one group and other requests for the same wiki could be another group.

e.g. users could opt-in to being a canary or some users could be randomly
selected.

When would this not work? If a newer version required schema change then
have to stop using old version after applying new schema? but that isn't
very common? any other complications?

-Jeremyb
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Re: [Wikitech-l] [Ops] Backport and Config changes window (name change)

[Jeremy Baron]

On Tue, Jun 9, 2020, 17:33 AntiCompositeNumber <
anticompositenum...@gmail.com> wrote:

> We could go the SuSa route and call it the BACON window, for BAckports
> and CONfigs
>

or BCC or BACC window.

>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] catching errors in local JavaScript

[Jeremy Baron]

On Jan 18, 2017 11:26, "Amir E. Aharoni" 
wrote:

Remind me please, were there ever any efforts to get client-side JavaScript
errors monitored centrally?


I think you're looking for
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/profile/976/ aka
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/sentry/

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Kunal (User:Legoktm) moving to Parsing Team

[Jeremy Baron]

On Apr 6, 2016 10:13, "Amgine"  wrote:
> No. Your citations are normal, and expected. The use of [0] is a dev
> affectation to show you're 'in the club', that is, to discriminate, but
> violates the principal of least surprise.

I think you're reading too much into it.

the body has [2], [3], and [4].
the footer has [1], [2], and [3].

Congrats Lego!

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] bluejeans

[Jeremy Baron]

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 4:33 PM, Brion Vibber <bvib...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Jeremy Baron <jer...@tuxmachine.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Brion Vibber <bvib...@wikimedia.org>
>> wrote:
>> > Jeremy, uncheck the microphone and camera buttons after selecting
>> > 'computer' and before selecting 'join'.
>>
>> right, I saw those.
>>
>> the problem is that if you have Chrome set to disallow websites from
>> using your Mic/Camera then you can't get that far. it just gets stuck
>> at requiring you to allow access.

(to clarify, I was using the service as a guest, I don't have an account.)

I'm happy to help with more STR if needed.

> Heh ok that would be something to report upstream yes. :)

:)

so, do I open my own support ticket? I guess I'll wait a bit to see if
someone knows whether or not we have a relationship with them and they
want to file for me? (best guess would be OIT?)

> Not relevant to a lot of folks doing straightforward video conferencing so
> that's probably why it's not already working,

sure, I don't know much about them, I just heard of the service for
the first time today. I think.

> but probably relevant to our
> usage for presentations with large audiences.

yeah, that was my point.

we have audiences that have more than average concerns about privacy. but also
* we shouldn't make it hard for people to enforce least privilege (and
we shouldn't be getting people into the habit of clicking allow
unnecessarily): don't allow access to camera if you're not going to
use the camera. and
* some people may want to watch a presentation in their pajamas, etc. :)

> (When there's a YouTube live
> stream that's at least watchable on most browsers, but then you can't
> participate in the direct chat.)

yeah.

actually, if we do have a relationship with them then I wonder if this
is available for others to use too? I know some other Wikimedia
meetings where this was an issue. at first glance, doesn't look like
they publish prices or offer a free tier; they say that the free trial
lasts 14 days.

I did some searching and found projects related to bluejeans and they
offer various auxiliary software packages (e.g. browser plugins and
the relay) for download directly from the bluejeans site. but no sign
of source or license (or even statement that they are proprietary).
maybe someone else lurking has the answer?

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 4:55 PM, Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
<bjor...@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> Unfortunately, if you choose computer and aren't using Chrome,[1] you have
> to install a browser plugin that people I trust say is not secure.
>
>  [1]: Some people have said that it also works with Chromium installed from
> Ubuntu, but last time I tried it only pretends to work[2] for Chromium
> installed from Debian.
>  [2]: "Pretends to work" meaning it looks like it joined but you don't
> actually get any audio or video.

ugh, another maybe blocker.

(I was using Google branded Chrome so didn't run into any of that yet)

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] bluejeans

[Jeremy Baron]

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Brion Vibber  wrote:
> Jeremy, uncheck the microphone and camera buttons after selecting
> 'computer' and before selecting 'join'.

right, I saw those.

the problem is that if you have Chrome set to disallow websites from
using your Mic/Camera then you can't get that far. it just gets stuck
at requiring you to allow access.

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] bluejeans

[Jeremy Baron]

Hi,

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 4:11 PM, Ryan Lane  wrote:
> The right question here is: is it more important for Wikimedia foundation
> to use only open source than it is to focus on work that directly benefits
> the movement? There's no reasonable open source to do this function. The
> ones that exist are terrible, are less efficient, and have to have hardware
> dedicated to them. In either case it's going to cost money to handle this,
> the question is, should it also cost engineering time?
>
> Idealism comes at a pretty high cost. The foundation in the past has made a
> pretty reasonable choice in the past in that they're willing to use
> proprietary software for functions that aren't directly associated with the
> projects. The decision is often focused on "if the community wanted to fork
> the projects, would this proprietary software we're using be a problem?".
> In this case the answer would be no.

the old default (AFAIK) was Google Hangouts. which I guess is just as
closed source but maybe is less cost? note that I'm not saying that
sub-optimal cost or source availability or hosting options are
necessarily a reason to not use bluejeans. but I would at least like
to be aware of the answers to those questions.

OTOH, IMO, the (apparent) inability to use this service with stock
Chrome (on a chromebook, stable channel) without sharing my
webcam/microphone is a blocker. (which maybe we can get them to fix)

I suppose the service may work ok with a Chrome instance that itself
doesn't have access to the webcam/microphone hardware. But that's not
good enough. again, IMO.

-Jeremy

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[Wikitech-l] bluejeans

[Jeremy Baron]

Hi,

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 3:36 PM, David Strine  wrote:
> We will be holding this brownbag in 25 minutes. The Bluejeans link has
> changed:
>
>  https://bluejeans.com/396234560

I'm not familiar with bluejeans and maybe have missed a transition
because I wasn't paying enough attention. is this some kind of
experiment? have all meetings transitioned to this service?

anyway, my immediate question at the moment is how do you join without
sharing your microphone and camera?

am I correct thinking that this is an entirely proprietary stack
that's neither gratis nor libre and has no on-premise (not cloud)
hosting option? are we paying for this?

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] pt.wikimedia.org - database naming

[Jeremy Baron]

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:09 AM, John  wrote:
> I dont want to come across as a dick, but renaming this wiki shouldn't be
> overly difficult. Worst case you dump the database and re-import under a
> new name. Since this is a non-active wiki all of the normal overhead isnt
> there.

yes, it should be a bit simpler because it is inactive.

but AIUI, the big hurdle is not in renaming the DB but in renaming the
externalstore. (and idk how that's laid out so I'll leave it to others
to elaborate)

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Testing pywikibot on beta wikis (Was: Simplifying the WMF deployment cadence)

[Jeremy Baron]

On May 29, 2015 09:10, Alex Monk kren...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 29 May 2015 at 09:14, John Mark Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote:
 It's risky anyway, do you know who has access to the beta cluster? It's
not
 considered secure and you do not need any NDA or anything to get access -
 if you are using a real password on beta, change it. It's in labs.

+1. we don't really need HTTPS on beta to secure beta. Rogue sysops and
other vandals aren't the end of the world. rather we need HTTPS so that we
can do tests with HTTPS.

Don't share passwords between beta and any other site unless you also don't
care about the other site. (e.g. you could share if both passwords are so
weak as abcde12345)

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Bug in the Wikipedia main web page

[Jeremy Baron]

On May 12, 2015 8:05 AM, Sukyoung Ryu sukyoung@gmail.com wrote:
 Could you kindly let us know the reason?

Please leave your comments and questions at
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Gadget-wm-portal.js

Thanks

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Maps

[Jeremy Baron]

On Mar 19, 2015 2:03 AM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
wrote:
 What is meant by real hardware ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bare_metal_%28computer%29

 Can we have some at Labs please?

Labs nodes provisioned for and by labs users are virtual machines.

Labs has dedicated bare metal just for labs but it is not directly exposed
to labs users.

We could theoretically copy the approach at
http://www.rackspace.com/cloud/servers/onmetal but that probably would not
be a very good allocation of resources. (both capital and human) Labs is
well suited for virtualization. (nova and the other OSM, OpenstackManager
are not perfect. We can and do fix them and if needed can explore other
options. but bare metal is unnecessary for all labs workloads I'm aware of)

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Could not acquire (database)_message:en:status lock

[Jeremy Baron]

Hi,

On Mar 7, 2015 9:56 PM, Justin Folvarcik jfolvar...@gmail.com wrote:
 Can anyone at least point me in
 the right direction of how to start debugging?

https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T46499
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T45516
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T44127

Maybe your redis filled up? you should try emptying the cache.

(in general:)

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:How_to_debug

you could turn up the log level, turn on extra logs, figure out what part
of the codebase is the immediate source of the message (e.g. by changing
messages in the source and checking if the site has a corresponding change
in message), print a stack trace and local variable state whenever that
code path is hit

or use a real debugger :)

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] E-mail login to wiki - needs feedback

[Jeremy Baron]

On Feb 23, 2015 12:06 PM, Lars Aronsson l...@aronsson.se wrote:
 It would be possible to just say sorry, login by e-mail
 is not possible for you; please login by username.

No, that isn't possible. We can't reveal existence or non-existence of an
account with an address. If there's more than one with a given address and
we throw that error message then we've revealed something we can't.

Multiple accounts match response should be identical to wrong password
response and identical to no such email/username response.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] If you hear about 'hackathon buddies'...

[Jeremy Baron]

On Feb 19, 2015 2:55 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thanks. Forwarding to Ellie for her consideration.

Ellie doesn't seem to be mentioned on
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2015 or in it's edit
history. So probably the wrong person. Maybe try the talk page there. But
also give some reason why it would be applicable, advance a goal, etc. And
it couldn't be ported directly because there's more classes of people e.g.
chapters' folks.

(not sure what is or isn't in scope for her job but certainly the focus is
Wikimania and she'd need to focus on that while the Germany conference
planning is at its peak)

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Continually degrading response

[Jeremy Baron]

Hi Brian,

On Jan 1, 2015 10:53 PM, Brian M xaosfluxw...@gmail.com wrote:
 Over the last few days access to multiple wiki's (very noticeable on
 enwiki) has been getting increasingly worse.  Is there a back-end issue
 going on?

Can you elaborate?

My first response to a question like that is to check graphs.

e.g.
* 
https://graphite.wikimedia.org/render/?title=navigationStart%20to%20loadEventEnd%20on%20desktop%20sites,%20last%20monthvtitle=millisecondsfrom=-1monthwidth=1024height=500until=nowareaMode=nonehideLegend=falselineWidth=1lineMode=connectedtarget=alias(color(frontend.navtiming.totalPageLoadTime.desktop.overall.median,%22blue%22),%22Median%22)target=alias(color(frontend.navtiming.totalPageLoadTime.desktop.overall.75percentile,%22red%22),%2275th%20percentile%22)

* 
https://graphite.wikimedia.org/render/?title=mediaWikiLoadStart%20to%20document.onload%20on%20desktop%20sites,%20last%20monthvtitle=millisecondsfrom=-1monthwidth=1024height=500until=nowareaMode=nonehideLegend=falselineWidth=1lineMode=connectedtarget=alias(color(frontend.navtiming.mediaWikiLoadComplete.desktop.overall.median,%22blue%22),%22Median%22)target=alias(color(frontend.navtiming.mediaWikiLoadComplete.desktop.overall.75percentile,%22red%22),%2275th%20percentile%22)

from https://gdash.wikimedia.org/dashboards/frontend/

that looks fine to me.

Another graph to check is currently broken:

https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T85316

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Attracting new talent to our projects

[Jeremy Baron]

On Dec 31, 2014 7:22 PM, Gabriel Wicke gwi...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 Perhaps some fun HTTP headers
 
http://royal.pingdom.com/2012/08/15/fun-and-unusual-http-response-headers/

See also https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T70982

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Need assistance : Patches

[Jeremy Baron]

On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Alisha Jain jain.alish...@gmail.com wrote:
 I want to apply Foss OPW Round 9 for the Extensive and robust
 localisation file format coverage project.
 For that I have played with gerrit and installed mediawiki. I have
 also gone through th [0] link as suggested by the community members on
 IRC.

Your footnote seems to have been lost in the mail.

 Now I am stuck on how to proceed further. The bugs are very well
 mentioned but not getting where to see its code i.e the location of
 the respective code.

 For example :-  Bugzilla 31331 is mentioned by the mentors for my
 project but I am not getting how can I go through its code.

https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/31331 is in Extension:Translate so the
code is located at
https://git.wikimedia.org/summary/mediawiki%2Fextensions%2FTranslate
aka
ssh://gerrit.wikimedia.org:29418/mediawiki/extensions/Translate.git

But I see you're online now so let's talk there.

 Please assist me in it or suggest to some easy bug to start with.

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] IRC bots for phab

[Jeremy Baron]

On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 12:13 AM, K. Peachey p858sn...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have no idea where that is coming from, specifically since there was no
 mention of creating accounts and the Login page clearly mentions using LDAP
 credentials to log in.

Petan attended part of the phab meeting last Wednesday and raised the
same issue at that point. I gave him a link to
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T457 at that time and other issues
blocking wider login were discussed.

I had the impression that he was deliberately raising the issue again
even though he already raised exactly that error message during the
meeting. (and without linking to relevant phab tasks or giving any
indication that he knew that what he was reporting was already a known
issue. or that part of the issue was that registration was
intentionally limited) Maybe I was wrong. But I didn't just imagine
the earlier context.

Some things about the current phab deployment could be better (e.g.
instead of just having a warning about the limited user registration
on https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/ , also have some warning at
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/auth/start/ ).

 Perhaps you need to be a bit more civil and less bitey,

perhaps!

 After all you did
 link to the relevant discussion about it on Phab, it's not hard to expect
 people to want to log-in and be involved...

Sure, I expect people to want to be able to join discussions like that
where they are already happening. (vs. e.g. starting a thread about a
phab task because you can't comment directly). In the future I'll try
to remember to give the same link that Andre did on this thread.

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] IRC bots for phab

[Jeremy Baron]

On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 6:15 AM, Petr Bena benap...@gmail.com wrote:
 Is currently someone working on this thing? I might be able to help
 with this task at some point. So in case you are working on it or
 would like to get any help with this, let me know, either here or on
 irc (petan), thanks

https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T131

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Re: [Wikitech-l] IRC bots for phab

[Jeremy Baron]

On Sep 28, 2014 3:56 AM, Petr Bena benap...@gmail.com wrote:
 This is all nice, but I can't login to phabricator (error 503 when I
 use my LDAP) so I can't really participate in any discussion there.

Then try #wikimedia-devtools ?

[[You spend way too much time (and other people's time too) on exaggerating
or rehashing issues beyond their true proportions. You already knew that
new user registration at that instance was disabled before the start of
this thread, right? (granted it shouldn't be giving a 503 and maybe we
should look into that but in any case you should have known login would not
work]]

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Phabricator update

[Jeremy Baron]

On Sep 18, 2014 10:19 PM, Daniel Zahn dz...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 puppet will make it exec {git_update... .. command = '/usr/bin/git
 remote update',
 from our gerrit repo. i'm not 100% sure about the sync between
 upstream and our gerrit repo, but Chase would know

git remote update doesn't change the working copy. (nor HEAD. i.e. no pull)

but haven't read the manifest myself.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikimedia engineering report, July 2014

[Jeremy Baron]

On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 4:55 PM, Arthur Richards
aricha...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 Not sure what the problem is but the report on mw.o is borked. See
 screenshot:
 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:Aug2014-monthlyreport-busted.png

Transient error on fetching CSS asset from bits?

Works for me. (but i've seen something like that before on other pages. I think)

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] broken travis-ci builds of mediawiki

[Jeremy Baron]

+ QA list

-Jeremy

On Aug 18, 2014 1:23 PM, John Mark Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote:

 There are build errors in the mediawiki builds on travis-ci, which
 have been happening for four months.

 https://travis-ci.org/wikimedia/mediawiki-core/builds

 Is anyone using that to help with development.  I doubt it, given they
 are broken.

 Could they be disabled, as those jobs are causing other travis-ci jobs
 under 'wikimedia' to be delayed.  e.g. the pywikibot-core builds,
 where the developer team actively uses the travis builds.

 https://travis-ci.org/wikimedia/pywikibot-core/builds
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you

[Jeremy Baron]

On Aug 11, 2014 12:51 PM, Tyler Romeo tylerro...@gmail.com wrote:
 More like the attendees were those who could afford to go and/or were
given
 scholarship.

Some people could afford to go if it were closer or can't take that much
time off but if it happens to be nearby then they can come for a part at
least.

So, we can't be close to everyone every year but we move around to
different places each year and fill in the gaps with national conferences.
(e.g. India, Netherlands and now USA too)

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Feature request.

[Jeremy Baron]

On Aug 5, 2014 11:25 PM, Nkansah Rexford nkansahrexf...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thanks for the update Quim. I hope it gets done as soon as possible, as
 it'll go a long way to help multiple concurrent edits.

 I think it's been lacking for a long time now, and can't wait to see it in
 action.

I think some test cases are in order.

The UI isn't perfect (you could even say confusing if you're not familiar
with it) but IME (in my experience) edits are not lost. The conflict is
either resolved automatically (so both are saved, not one clobbers the
other *OR* it can't be resolved automatically and the 2 versions (current
revision and what you just saved) are both sent back to the user for manual
intervention. You can then diff (show changes), etc.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] 34 TB Wikimedia Commons files on archive.org: you can help

[Jeremy Baron]

On Aug 2, 2014 8:17 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote:
 I think this would be doable if we can work out the
 legal issues and WMF approves a GAC request for some cheap storage.

What legal issues do you envision?

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] 34 TB Wikimedia Commons files on archive.org: you can help

[Jeremy Baron]

On Aug 2, 2014 8:25 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote:
 No offense, I would prefer that Cascadia discuss potential legal issues
 privately with WMF before we start speculating in public.

 There is probably a way to make this successful in the end.

I find that rather confusing.

As the legal team's email footers say, they are not your lawyer (and not
your chapter's lawyer either).

I can't think of any legal issues you'd encounter besides the ones WMF
already deals with. (copyright/trademark/defamation/trade secrets/national
security/CDA 230/DMCA/etc.) If you want legal advice on any of those issues
then you need to consult counsel outside WMF.

Or maybe there's a concern I haven't imagined yet.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Naigos and Icinga

[Jeremy Baron]

On Jul 17, 2014 11:55 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote:
 Is there a plan to switch from Naigos to Icinga, or is that merely under
 discussion?

Happened many moons ago.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Strange mailing list behavior

[Jeremy Baron]

On Jul 16, 2014 1:42 AM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote:
 When there are technical issues such as this email issue, Wikipedia pages
 not loading, and so on, is there a page or mailing list (ironic, I know)
 where alerts should be visible? I'm familiar with the IRC tech channel but
 I am hoping there is a webpage or mailing list that anyone could access
 through a desktop or mobile web browser.

This list, status.wikimedia.org, nagios web interface, and
#wikimedia-tech/#wikimedia-operations both have logs available by HTTP.
(usually they lag less than a second behind.)

If you follow the link to the page report you'll see it says this
particular service needs better nagios coverage.

oh, whoops, s/nagios/icinga/g :-)

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] User agent policy for bots

[Jeremy Baron]

On Jul 11, 2014 9:45 AM, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote:
 On 07/11/2014 09:34 AM, John Mark Vandenberg wrote:
  Could ops confirm they have the username of each logged in edit at
  their finger tips (i.e. roughly as easy to access as the user-agent)?
  Pywikibot doesnt permit logged out edits.

 We do, after the fact, from the same data Checkusers have access to.

Not if they don't make an edit.

There's lots of options for bots to cause trouble for ops. (including
things that effect all wikis on the cluster, not just the specific one they
were accessing)

 I'm not sure where that talk occured; I have not been made aware of it
 and it didn't filter through the normal ops channels that I've seen.

I believe that's referring to the pywikipedia list.

 I'm a little surprised by Antoine's suggestion that it is important that
 the bot user's information is in the UA string - it doesn't seem useful
 or necessary to me.  Bots shouldn't be editing while logged out in the
 first place, so the bot account will normally always be plain to see.

 Obviously, having the user account in the UA would help a bit in
 tracking down errant bots when they happen but that should be a rare
 occurance and we have other methods to use in those cases.

Varnish has access to the cookies, sure. But we log UA string and not
cookies. Or maybe analytics is doing extra logging I didn't notice? If
you're looking at request logs or varnishtop then UA string is a convenient
way (and the standard way we've always suggested to not operators) to
identify the bot.

Imagine if you've identified a specific type of bad request in logs and
they're all from one IP and one UA string. Varnish can easily send an error
for a certain UA string+IP address before it hits the apaches if you need
it to. But if that UA string is generic then you may end up blocking
collateral damage instead of just the one broken bot.

Coren, what you say above is a change from past statements:
I can recall more than a few past conversations about this with mzmcbride,
Tim Starling and others. (Usually comes up when someone comes asking for
whatever app they're writing for a small number of operators. not a big
framework like pwb)

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikimedia email list settings

[Jeremy Baron]

On Jul 5, 2014 3:27 PM, Bináris wikipo...@gmail.com wrote:
 Fix= don't use gmail. It decides for you. They are like Microsoft and know
 what you need better than yourself. :-)

More details:

https://productforums.google.com/d/topic/gmail/fkbKPajx1Dw/discussion
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Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki Bug Bounty Program

[Jeremy Baron]

On Jun 26, 2014 9:44 AM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote:
 Any process that involves volunteers signing non-public, indefinite vows
 of secrecy and silence are antithetical to Wikimedia's values and mission.
 This isn't a cult. Our bedrock principles are open access and
transparency.

To clarify, I think Max wants more docs listed at
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Non-disclosure_agreements

Maybe Max is unaware about https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_NDA

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Second round of the MediaWiki Release Management RFP

[Jeremy Baron]

On Jun 14, 2014 3:48 AM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote:
 Out of curiosity, will the proposals be reviewed by GAC?

I doubt it. There's no grant here.

This is a contract initiated by WMF not a grant initiated by a potential
grantee.

cf. https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Category:Requests_for_Proposals
has that stopped getting up updates?

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Improving event announcements (was Re: Tech Talk: How, What, Why of WikiFont)

[Jeremy Baron]

On Jun 10, 2014 10:19 AM, Quim Gil q...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 The video can be watched from the Google+ URL that we are advertising.

Even if not logged in? Please double check with a clean cookie jar.

(Seems to just give me a login prompt. No chance to play the video. I just
trued with the wikifont link.)

 If
 for whatever reason you prefer to watch it in YouTube, that page also
 contains a link to the corresponding YouTube page, under Links. If it
 makes sense, I would prefer to avoid sending two different URLs in our
 announcements pointing to the same video.

Maybe then the youtube link should be the primary link advertised.

Also, more general question: emails are nice but how about an onwiki page
per event? Email could link to that and maybe youtube too and then for
extra links like plus you would have to go to the wiki to get them.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Preventing MW from adding a page to watchlist

[Jeremy Baron]

On Jun 10, 2014 9:18 AM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote:
 And
 sysadmins of larger wiki installations probably want to re-visit whether
 the user preferences defaults are appropriate for their communities.

They also may wan to consider reading the release announcement emails…
(e.g.
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/mediawiki-announce/2014-June/000152.html
)

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Any reason for no enwiki dump this month?

[Jeremy Baron]

On Jun 10, 2014 1:30 PM, Bryan White bgwh...@gmail.com wrote:
 Any reason for no enwiki dump this month?

No reason yet. See
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/xmldatadumps-l/2014-June/001038.html

(You may want to subscribe there)

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Tech Talk: How, What, Why of WikiFont

[Jeremy Baron]

Hi,

On Jun 9, 2014 8:55 PM, Rachel Farrand rfarr...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 If you want to watch live you can join the hangout here
 https://plus.google.com/events/chpgv8usjd6dn38on07njjk28hg and

Please send the corresponding youtube links *early*.
(Ideally, every time you mention the Google plus link for any talk you
would include the youtube link alongside it. But at least 30 or 60 mins
ahead of time should be an absolute minimum. scrambling to get the link
after a talk starts and people giving you the wrong one is common and
avoidable.)

Are there any docs onwiki somewhere for how to run/announce a meeting? (so
we can make sire those docs mention the requirement for youtube link)

See e.g.
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2014-May/076451.html

Thanks!

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Tech Talk: How, What, Why of WikiFont

[Jeremy Baron]

On Jun 10, 2014 12:14 AM, Jeremy Baron jer...@tuxmachine.com wrote:
 Are there any docs onwiki somewhere for how to run/announce a meeting?
(so we can make sire those docs mention the requirement for youtube link)

gah, Android keyboard…

s/sire/sure/

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Page Language selector

[Jeremy Baron]

On May 23, 2014 11:09 AM, Kunal Grover kunalgrove...@gmail.com wrote:
 I am working on developing the Page Content Language selector for core as
a
 part of my GSoC project.
 Me and my mentors had some discussions and came up with these ideas.
 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:SPQRobin/Page_language

 I would like to invite everyone give their ideas and/or comments regarding
 the same.
 You can add your comments here:
 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User_talk:SPQRobin/Page_language

Adding mediawiki-i...@lists.wikimedia.org

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Tech Talk - Elasticsearch: May 15 @19:00 UTC

[Jeremy Baron]

On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 6:43 PM, Quim Gil q...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 2:00 AM, Rachel Farrand rfarr...@wikimedia.org 
 wrote:
 Join Nik Everett on May 15 at 19:00 UTC for his talk on Elasticsearch:
 What it is? Why we chose it? How does it work? What is left to do before we
 cut over to it completely?

 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Search

 Hangout link 
 herehttps://plus.google.com/b/103470172168784626509/events/cokipb2senmmvkvdjif7aq55kac

 This session is starting in 15 minutes.

FYI, youtube link is http://youtu.be/FubXExbAvOA

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Login to Wikimedia Phabricator with a GitHub/Google/etc account?

[Jeremy Baron]

On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:20 PM, Quim Gil q...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 There are good reasons to plan for Wikimedia SUL only (consistency with the
 rest of Wikimedia projects), and there are good reasons to plan for other
 providers as well (the easiest path for most first-time contributors).

If there's a problem with SUL/centralauth and you can't log in either
to the wikis or to phabricator then how do we report/track that issue?

(I'm a bit less worried about the case where SSO/federated auth breaks
but wiki login is still working.)

Also, have we considered two factor auth (2fa)? or are there some
users (security bugs?) that should have different requirements than
other users?

 What do you think? Should we offer alternatives to Wikimedia login? If so,
 which ones?

I'm not sure about whether to open to any service under the sun. Would
need to be sure that users are very clear about what happens if their
choice of auth service is compromised or their account their is
compromised or service decides to shut down.

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] En.wikipedia redirect loops on everything (??!!)

[Jeremy Baron]

On May 13, 2014 11:00 PM, George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com wrote:
 I am getting redirect loops on every page I try right now on en.wikipedia

More details?

Tested logged in and out. (clean cookie jar) didn't notice anything weird.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] recent changes stream

[Jeremy Baron]

On May 4, 2014 10:24 PM, Ori Livneh o...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 an implementation for a recent changes
 stream broadcast via socket.io, an abstraction layer over WebSockets that
 also provides long polling as a fallback for older browsers.

I see this is using redis. FWIW I was initially wondering if this would
leverage
the log aggregation infra that analytics is building. Currently we use UDP
for the IRC feed which is vulnerable to silent loss in case of packet loss
or other network disruption. I believe analytics will be using an
eventually consistent system? Or we could just watch the UDP stream for
sequence gaps and fill in the gaps with data from the RC table in the
corresponding DB. (likewise we could watch for gaps in redis and backfill
into redis from DB as needed)

How could this work overlap with adding pubsubhubbub support to existing
web RC feeds? (i.e. atom/rss. or for that matter even individual page
history feeds or related changes feeds)

The only pubsubhubbub bugs I see atm are
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=38970%2C30245

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Fwd: [Wikimedia-GH] Wiki Loves Earth Begins!

[Jeremy Baron]

On May 1, 2014 6:22 PM, rupert THURNER rupert.thur...@gmail.com wrote:
 is there a possibility to get a banner on enwp for ghana to wiki loves
 earth, as this is this years main contest there?
 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Earth_2014_in_Ghana

That doesn't have anything to do with this list. (I can't think of a more
relevant list besides a general one like wikimedia-l though)

Please post a request on either of:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:Geonotice
* https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/CentralNotice/Calendar (and also its talk
page)

Also, don't ask for notices for events after they've already started! Plan
and coordinate them ahead of time.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] SSL Cert Change?

[Jeremy Baron]

On Apr 10, 2014 3:34 PM, Vito vituzzu.w...@gmail.com wrote:
 Yep, it would make a few sense to reset tokens and change passwords
before certs are reissued.

No it doesn't!!!

Change keys/certs first. Then do tokens/passwords.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] SSL Cert Change?

[Jeremy Baron]

On Apr 10, 2014 3:27 PM, Derric Atzrott datzr...@alizeepathology.com
wrote:
 I just had Certificate Patrol in Firefox let me know that the SSL cert for
 Wikimedia.org was changed?  Does anyone know anything about that?  Are
multiple
 certificates in use?

FYI, this has been widely covered in a lot of mainstream press. (but not
necessarily well. Some call OpenSSL a protocol)

http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2014-April/075801.html

https://xkcd.com/1353/

(didn't hear about the xkcd coverage on the internet or by checking the
site. I heard about it by accidentally getting on the same subway as a
friend that had seen it)

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki on Google App Engine

[Jeremy Baron]

On Apr 7, 2014 10:36 AM, Dan Andreescu dandree...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 So you'd probably have to
 redirect mediawiki to write files somewhere else more permanent.  Google
 Drive seems like a decent place but last time I tried, integrating Drive
 with App Engine was silly hard.  This might have changed since I haven't
 tried for a few years.

Well Google now has an s3 clone too.  But I was under the impression that
you can't upload to an appengine host at all? i.e. you need to have the
POST go directly from web client to the s3 or similar service and then back
to appengine when upload us done? (or use ajax upload?)

Anyway, if you were buffering in RAM would have to test for/deal with
problems with large files.

Sorry in forgot the thread yesterday. Will write more soon.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki on Google App Engine

[Jeremy Baron]

On Apr 7, 2014 11:40 AM, Liangent liang...@gmail.com wrote:
 I remember I mentioned it once in IRC, and some people don't like it
 because GAE is proprietary...

So is oracle. If someone wants to do the work…
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Top Level Design, LLC greedy registrar!

[Jeremy Baron]

On Apr 6, 2014 12:47 PM, Brian Wolff bawo...@gmail.com wrote:
  Is ray king is working with wikimedia?

 Nope. He does not work for WMF.

He doesn't work for WMF but the answer for is working with Wikimedia? is
Yes, he is.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Shorter URLs

[Jeremy Baron]

On Apr 6, 2014 1:53 PM, Daniel Norton dan...@danielnorton.com wrote:
 sending a 301 redirect regardless of the remainder of the path. Is that
documented somewhere? (I would expect a 404.)

The apache conf is in a public git repo. (not getting the URL for you atm
because I'm writing from a phone. should be operations/apache-config in
gerrit)

See also https://mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ShortUrl

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] MediaWiki on Google App Engine

[Jeremy Baron]

On Apr 5, 2014 4:26 PM, Denny Vrandečić vrande...@gmail.com wrote:
 Did anyone manage to get MediaWiki running on Google App Engine? I am a
bit
 dense, it seems, and would appreciate a few pointers.

Yes, I think the biggest problem was that you can't do file uploads. IIRC

I can write more when back at a computer.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] .wiki gTLD

[Jeremy Baron]

On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 5:20 AM, Quinn wood.quin...@gmail.com wrote:
 Jeremy Baron wrote
 Could I register starwars.wiki in order to redirect it to
 starwars.wikia.com ? (or if wikia offered white labeling to host it in
 place?)

 Duplicate the zone and add additional resource requirements (a slew of new
 server virtual host configurations) just for vanity?

Your quote could use some more context. Whether it should be
registered is irrelevant. That was about whether it *could* be. (or if
it would be prevented because of the use of a trademark)

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Grrrit-wm down for a few hours

[Jeremy Baron]

On Mar 17, 2014 1:37 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote:
 Yuvi Panda wrote:
 I was a terrible maintainer, and forgot to migrate grrrit-wm to eqiad
 tools before the cutoff date. As a result, it will be down for a few
 hours as Coren does a batch migrate of all the things. Apologies for
 the disruption

 Eh, that account had many listed maintainers (myself included). Diffusion
 of responsibility. :-)  Thanks for sending this note.

[[bystander effect]] :-)
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Re: [Wikitech-l] About the bug 46453 - Uzbek: Change date and decimal separators

[Jeremy Baron]

On Mar 13, 2014 2:37 PM, Maduranga Siriwardena 
maduranga.siriward...@gmail.com wrote:
 By mistake I uploaded a patch to a bug to Gerrit having some mistakes in
 the commit message.
 If I'm linking a bug to the patch I should add Bug: bugnumber
 But I added it as Bug:bugnumber
 (Having no space after the colon)
 Will it be fine for this time? Or should I do something to correct it?

You can send an amended changeset with the same change-id as the original
or edit from the gerrit web interface (gerrit will then generate a commit
for you)

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Why is Cologne Blue still in core?

[Jeremy Baron]

On Mar 11, 2014 3:36 PM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote:
 differentiating which
 nearly-identical wikis one is working on, particularly if one or more of
 the wikis involved are non-public ones.

Do you have specific requests for how to differentiate them?

Either for a whole wiki (could be in main common.css) or your user (your
own common.css)

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Two factor auth reset needed on wikitech

[Jeremy Baron]

On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Matthew Walker mwal...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 I wasn't able to find any documentation on wikitech about how to reset it
 -- so I need your help to do that I think? I still know my password; so I'm
 not looking to reset that -- maybe just temporarily disable two factor auth
 on my account (Mwalker) and I'll re-enroll myself?

I don't know that much about the process but I believe step one is to
find the slips of paper that you wrote down the codes that you're
supposed to use in this very situation.

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Two factor auth reset needed on wikitech

[Jeremy Baron]

On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 10:23 PM, Matthew Walker mwal...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 Please reset my 2 factor auto preference in the wikitech database.

 My GPG key is available from the MIT keyserver [0]. Establishment of
 ownership of the Mwalker LDAP account by this email can occur via
 gerrit [1], or the edit history of my user page on [2].

I'm not sure how any of that establishes anything?

 (Incidently; I should probably get more signatures on my key...
 anyone in the office want to sign it?)

The simplest option if you're in the office is to just tell an op in
person. (who can verify who you are because they know you)

 [0] D731C1C0 -- available from
 http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?search=mwalker%40wikimedia.orgop=indexi

Please don't use short key IDs. Also, any other user could make a key
with the same address you used and submit it to the keyserevers and
then it would also show up in search results for your address. (plus
we shouldn't trust the keyservers themselves so much)

More about short key IDs:
http://www.asheesh.org/note/debian/short-key-ids-are-bad-news.html

 [1] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/admin/groups/28,members
 [2] https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Mwalker

[2] redirects (somehow??) to another domain. Maybe better to link
straight to the history page.
https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=user:mwalkeraction=history

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] How to retrieve current wiki time

[Jeremy Baron]

On Feb 26, 2014 9:14 AM, Petr Bena benap...@gmail.com wrote:
 How do you get current wiki time, so that you can either calculate the
 timezone or use the time?

How about using basetimestamp instead?

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php says:
 basetimestamp - Timestamp of the base revision (obtained through
prop=revisionsrvprop=timestamp). Used to detect edit conflicts; leave
unset to ignore conflicts

 starttimestamp - Timestamp when you obtained the edit token. Used to
detect edit conflicts; leave unset to ignore conflicts

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] How to retrieve current wiki time

[Jeremy Baron]

On Feb 26, 2014 10:09 AM, Brad Jorsch (Anomie) bjor...@wikimedia.org
wrote:
 Note the returned timestamp should always be in UTC, formatted in ISO 8601
 format (e.g. 2014-02-26T15:01:37Z).

Speaking of timestamp format, examples in api.php seem wrong for
basetimestamp.

The examples use entirely numeric timestamp like you get when paging
through [[special:log]] (in browser not API) The format returned by
prop=revisionsrvprop=timestamp does match the format you described.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Exit stats?

[Jeremy Baron]

On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote:
 Does Wikipedia have any exit or click-through stats, like what links
 are the visitors following from an article? If yes, are those public?

Forwarded to the (public) analytics list
(analyt...@lists.wikimedia.org). Please followup there (and you're
welcome to subscribe too).

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] .wiki gTLD

[Jeremy Baron]

On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 7:25 AM, Antoine Musso hashar+...@free.fr wrote:
 If I own the trademark  coca-cola I would assume the registrar would
 not be able use (ie: sell a domain) without a license from me.

I don't know about that.

Could I register starwars.wiki in order to redirect it to
starwars.wikia.com ? (or if wikia offered white labeling to host it in
place?)

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] .wiki gTLD

[Jeremy Baron]

On Feb 20, 2014 1:57 PM, Derric Atzrott datzr...@alizeepathology.com
wrote:
 ICANN just delegated the gTLD .WIKI yesterday.  It's being managed by Top
Level
 Design, LLC.  I'm not entirely sure what that means for all of us
exactly, but I
 suspect that the WMF is going to want to at least register Wikipedia.wiki
and
 Wikimedia.wiki once the gTLD is open for registration.

I believe they were at Wikimania this past summer and we've definitely been
in contact with them for some time now.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] deploying the most recent MediaWiki code: which branch?

[Jeremy Baron]

On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 9:53 PM, Isarra Yos zhoris...@gmail.com wrote:
 It would require pretty consistent maintenance of their own, but it could be
 worth it.

IOW, you need to hire a Greg Grossmeier :)

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Toolserver Error 502

[Jeremy Baron]

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 7:55 PM, Derric Atzrott
datzr...@alizeepathology.com wrote:
 Is there a bug in bugzilla that I might be able to watch?  Or is this a new
 issue?

The toolserver admins use JIRA not bugzilla so I don't expect you to
find anything in bugzilla.

I'd check first
toolserver-lhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/toolserver-l
and then some IRC channels e.g. #wikimedia-toolserver,
#wikimedia-stewards, #wikimedia (also, could see if someone mentioned
in #wikimedia-tech, etc. but toolserver is outside their domain)

Then check JIRAhttps://jira.toolserver.org/. (note however that in
order to login, create an account or reset your password you'll need
to submit a sacrifice and roll some dice)

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Starting off with development on Wikimedia for GSOC

[Jeremy Baron]

On Feb 9, 2014 11:34 AM, Akash Agarwal akash...@gmail.com wrote:
 especially *Tools
 for mass migration of legacy translated wiki content*.

A good place to start would be asking for help in #mediawiki-i18n @ freenode

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] English Wikipedia Issues

[Jeremy Baron]

On Feb 6, 2014 11:48 AM, Andre Klapper aklap...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 On Thu, 2014-02-06 at 11:41 -0500, Derric Atzrott wrote:
  Not sure if anyone else noticed or not yet, but at least the English
Wikipedia
  appears to be having some intermittent issues.

 This is being worked on currently on IRC in #wikimedia-operations
 currently, plus was reported to
 https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60970

A couple more links:
* https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/SAL
* http://gdash.wikimedia.org/dashboards/reqerror/

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Status of the new PDF Renderer

[Jeremy Baron]

On Jan 25, 2014 9:55 AM, Liangent liang...@gmail.com wrote:
 It's mentioned as a test case but where's the output (expected and
 actual) of that article?

You may find some answers in the initial mail that started this thread.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] I'm back from Hacker School

[Jeremy Baron]

Welcome back!

I look forward to working (maybe even pairing) with you.
(I also want to try the fun and profit friday's program too)

On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 2:36 PM, Sumana Harihareswara
suma...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 http://www.harihareswara.net/nb/nb.cgi/category/sumana/Hacker%20Schoolwhich

unbroken link for those that want to follow along:

http://www.harihareswara.net/nb/nb.cgi/category/sumana/Hacker%20School

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] npm publish

[Jeremy Baron]

On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Max Semenik maxsem.w...@gmail.com wrote:
 Move to some host that will not die soon?

fenari has been the canonical place for these docs for a while. (AIUI)

IMHO, there should be a clearly defined home for them and not a
situation where people have to guess/hunt for the right host to look
on. (i.e. not packagist and dozens other things on fenari and npmjs
alone on tin/bast1001) There is already a ticket to move these docs
away from fenari (RT 6402) and seems like fenari is still the right
place to put new docs as long as it's still the canonical home for
them.

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] FW: Mass file undeletion tools?

[Jeremy Baron]

On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 3:00 PM, Nathan Larson
nathanlarson3...@gmail.com wrote:
 https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:UndeleteBatch should work.

no match for /batch/i @ https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Version

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Jake requests enabling access and edit access to Wikipedia via TOR

[Jeremy Baron]

On Dec 30, 2013 10:58 PM, Tyler Romeo tylerro...@gmail.com wrote:
 Implementing a system like this to
 work with donations would be extraordinarily difficult, if it's even
 possible.

I don't think that's true. Given a reference implementation of a generic
blinding service, I think it should be easier to implement than to decide
whether or not to implement.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Operations buy in on Architecture of mwlib Replacement

[Jeremy Baron]

On Nov 17, 2013 9:17 AM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
wrote:
 The current PDF support is broken. It does not support all the languages
we
 support. I do not see that this an explicit requirement.

That may effect dependencies (fonts/libs/etc.) but otherwise I think is
irrelevant to this thread.

Please comment about this onwiki.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikipedia Issue

[Jeremy Baron]

On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Andre Klapper aklap...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 Thanks! The Operations team is currently working on it and there likely
 will be an analysis available at
 https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Incident_documentation afterwards.

See also #wikimedia-tech, #wikimedia-operations, (both of those have
logs linked from /topic so you can catch up) icinga and
https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/SAL

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] New Bugzilla users have restricted accounts

[Jeremy Baron]

On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 6:51 PM, Nathan Larson
nathanlarson3...@gmail.com wrote:
 Why not make assigning bugs work sort of like FlaggedRevs -- as a new user,
 you can make changes, but the changes won't take effect until they're
 reviewed and approved? After a bureaucrat sees that you're behaving
 responsibly, or after you've made a certain number of changes that have
 been approved, then your changes are automatically approved.

 With that system, you don't have to make a request of any particular
 person; it's whoever is the first to see that there are changes that need
 to be reviewed.

errr, patches welcome, etc.

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] New Bugzilla users have restricted accounts

[Jeremy Baron]

On Nov 7, 2013 6:27 PM, Andre Klapper aklap...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 For the records: Currently 14744 Wikimedia Bugzilla users have editbugs
 permissions (so this is something to do via an SQL command instead of me
 clicking myself to death in Bugzilla's web interface).

I also generally support this. But maybe we can limit to only users that
have done at least one or two actions in the last X months. Or exclude
people that haven't logged in for a year. 14.7k sounds like a lot.

Also, what is the current method for marking bad users and making sure they
don't get promoted? Like CentralAuth's lock.

After the first batch who can then make more people who can grant editbugs?
is this going to be a regular automated thing? manually done each X weeks?

Also, I'm less clear about the remove editbugs form users part. That could
be more restricted than granting.

Max, et al. what do you think?

-Jeremy
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[Wikitech-l] Fwd: What's the prefered way to contribute patches to Pediapress' mwlib?

[Jeremy Baron]

adding their list

-- Forwarded message --
From: Strainu strain...@gmail.com
Date: Oct 29, 2013 12:30 PM
Subject: [Wikitech-l] What's the prefered way to contribute patches to
Pediapress' mwlib?
To: Wikimedia developers wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Cc:

 Hi,

 I have some patches for Extension:Collection, which actually apply to
 mwlib. While the php code seems to reside on the wikimedia servers,
 mwlib is on github.

 Should I attach them to a corresponding bug on bugzilla.wikimedia.org,
 or should I open a pull request on github?

 Thanks,
Strainu

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Re: [Wikitech-l] 2013 Datacenter RFP - open for submissions

[Jeremy Baron]

On Oct 21, 2013 8:32 AM, Dan Garry dga...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 I may just be spouting nonsense, but I've heard a few separate people
 mention to me that Iceland is an increasingly attractive place for
hosting,
 as they're in the Schengen area (making it easy to get to) but *not* in
the
 European Union (so not subject to EU laws on hosting data), it's got a lot
 of green energy, and cooling is cheaper because it's cold there.

And how is the copyright situation? is there a counterpart to fair use (and
is it as broad as in US?) or CDA 230?

Anyway, Iceland irrelevant for this particular RFP (AIUI) but maybe it
would be considered in a future req.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] [IRC] wm-bot semi outage

[Jeremy Baron]

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 4:15 PM, Petr Bena benap...@gmail.com wrote:
 I hope wmf will soon start selling I love gluster t-shirts :-) I would get 
 one

I don't know much about gluster or its terminology but maybe we can
make something as good as
http://www.zazzle.com/2_lgtm_tee_shirt-235862924096653439 ?

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Method of Testing DB Queries

[Jeremy Baron]

On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Aaron Schulz aschulz4...@gmail.com wrote:
 A smallish wiki with 10ks of pages and the full history and the table data
 (not just revision/page/*links stuff from dumps) would probably be useful.
 I'm not sure where the threshold roughly starts though.

We could get a script included in maintenance or at least vagrant to
populate some abusefilters/etc. and then generate some fake
accounts/prefs/edits/log entries/etc. maybe with selenium? (and the
API. but the data won't be complete without edits made with an HTML
interface.)

See https://github.com/fzaninotto/Faker or one of the several variants
in other languages.

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Bulk download

[Jeremy Baron]

On Sep 23, 2013 9:25 AM, Mihai Chintoanu mihai.chinto...@skobbler.com
wrote:
 I have a list of about 1.8 million images which I have to download from
commons.wikimedia.org. Is there any simple way to do this which doesn't
involve an individual HTTP hit for each image?

You mean full size originals, not thumbs scaled to a certain size, right?

You should rsync from a mirror[0] (rsync allows specifying a list of files
to copy) and then fill in the missing images from upload.wikimedia.org ;
for upload.wikimedia.org I'd say you should throttle yourself to 1 cache
miss per second (you can check headers on a response to see if was a hit or
miss and then back off when you get a miss) and you shouldn't use more than
one or two simultaneous HTTP connections. In any case, make sure you have
an accurate UA string with contact info (email address) so ops can contact
you if there's an issue.

At the moment there's only one mirror and it's ~6-12 months out of date so
there may be a substantial amount to fill in. And of course you should be
getting checksums from somewhere (the API?) and verifying them. If your
images are all missing from the mirror than it should take around 40 days
at 0.5 img/sec but I guess you probably could do it in less than 10 days if
you have a fast enough pipe. (depends on if you get a lit of misses or hits)

See also [1] but not all of that applies because upload.wikimedia.org isn't
MediaWiki. so e.g. no maxlag param.

-Jeremy

[0]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mirroring_Wikimedia_project_XML_dumps#Media
[1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Etiquette
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Access from China

[Jeremy Baron]

On Sep 23, 2013 11:09 PM, Ryu Cheol rch...@gmail.com wrote:
 On iPad, I could not check it is http or https. You means that on mobile
devices such as iPad, it does not redirect to https. I feel a bit, it is
not consistent.

If it's not consistent then that's a probably bug to be fixed. Can you
provide more details and try to eliminate any variables? e.g. maybe one
device had a forceHTTPS cookie set or one was logged in and one was not. Or
they were using different uplinks.

 In the region which https is not allowed, could we keep the http as the
default protocol for example China?
 I thought I totally lost the access. I ask we could change directing
behavior according to the region the access comes from?

This has been discussed many times (including many times on this list). You
can catch up with the meta summary[0] (or links at the bottom of that page)
or the archives of this list.

[0] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/HTTPS#Excluded_Countries

Ryan wrote:
 Can you email me privately and let me know what your IP address is? We
 actually do have something in place to not redirect logged-in users in
some
 regions (such as China). Maybe the geoip database we are using is
incorrect
 for your area.

I got the impression that the trip to China was finished; we'll see what he
says.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] In case you missed this:

[Jeremy Baron]

On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 1:24 AM, Jay Ashworth j...@baylink.com wrote:
 How many printers would it take to keep up with updates to Wikipedia?

http://what-if.xkcd.com/59/

nope, we saw it :)

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] [RFC]: Clean URLs- dropping /wiki/ and /w/index.php?title=..

[Jeremy Baron]

On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 2:09 AM, Gabriel Wicke gwi...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 So now only the conversion from

 /w/index.php?title=foo?action=history
 to
 /foo?action=history

Do you mean:

to
/wiki/foo?action=history

?

 is under discussion.

See also https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/51595 and RT# 864 (aka
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/21919 ) which all seem to prefer
docroot verification rather than DNS.

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] WMFs stance on non-GPL code

[Jeremy Baron]

On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:15 AM, Jeroen De Dauw jeroended...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm curious what the stance of WMF is on BSD, MIT and MPL licensed code. In
 particular, could such code be deployed on WMF servers?

I'm sure it is already deployed on WMF servers. Can you elaborate?

e.g. deployed is not the same as being part of MediaWiki. We use
[[Jenkins (software)]] on WMF servers and the enwiki article says it
is MIT licensed.

What exactly would you like to do?

-Jeremy

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[Wikitech-l] contribs/participation from the community; in code or other ways (was site hardening thread)

[Jeremy Baron]

On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 5:33 PM, rupert THURNER
rupert.thur...@gmail.com wrote:
 i'd really appreciate some love towards other projects here, and
 get things fixed at source as well, in mid term (i.e months, one or
 two years).

Lots of people are working on lots of different projects. What's your
point? Or am I missing some implication that you were referring to a
particular project?

 hi faidon, i do not think you personally and WMF are particularly
 helpful in accepting contributions. because you:
 * do not communicate openly the problems
 * do not report upstream publically
 * do not ask for help, and even if it gets offered you just ignore it
 with quite some arrogance

I have some first hand experience with contributing to various WMF git
repos and I've observed the way people respond to new contributors. I
don't think your points are accurate in general. (but neither is the
process perfect every time.)

OTOH, you can send patches/edits to documentation/processes for
integrating work from new contributors. I will commit to reviewing the
first few of your proposed changes if they are truly constructive and
you send me links to them within a reasonable amount of time from now.

Clipping out the part about gitblit and forking that to another thread.

 On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Faidon Liambotis fai...@wikimedia.org 
 wrote:
 Is dedicating (finite) engineering time to write the necessary code for
 e.g. gdnsd to support DNSSEC, just to be able to support DANE for
 which there's exactly ZERO browser support, while at the same time
 breaking a significant chunk of users, a sensible thing to do?

 i don't mean this to sound rude, but you give me the impression that
 you handle the https and dns case similarly than the gitblit case. you
 tried some approaches, and let me perceive you think only in your wmf
 box.

I think I may understand what paying half the rent was supposed to
mean earlier. (even if I don't think it was applicable to gitblit. As
I said above, forked irrelevant discussion about gitblit performance
to another thread)

But, I don't understand how that could possibly apply at all to what
you quoted above. Faidon's statements about DANE and development time
and prioritizing seem sensible to me. (at least on first reading and
given the caveat that I haven't read about DANE yet) In particular I
don't see any indication that something was attempted and then people
gave up. (note: giving up is sometimes justified too!)

There are some realities we have to live with even if we don't like
them and those may effect how we prioritize some work. e.g. we can't
choose which browser people use to access our projects and we can't
stop them from using a 6 year old OS. (and we can't choose which ISP
or country they access the projects from!) What we *can* do is measure
how many people use which browsers and versions, ISPs, etc. and get
statistics on how many people will be effected (positively or
negatively) by a given change. (and maybe that's not always perfect
but at least it can help)

So, at what point do we decide that not enough people are effected for
us to devote time to something? if it only effects people running
* an alpha browser build released yesterday?
* a nightly automated browser build?
* a browser built with a patch applied that's not even in trunk/master yet?

I don't know and I'm happy I usually don't have to get involved with
those decisions. And of course sometimes we have advanced warning that
a change currently in an alpha or beta will be included in a build
that will soon be widely released.

OTOH, not everything any engineer does is dictated by those questions;
some things are fixed or improved just because a particular engineer
cared about it. And I think that's good too. (also, patches welcome!
you don't have to be anyone special to be that person that cared a
little extra about a feature)

-Jeremy

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[Wikitech-l] rupert and gitblit (was site hardening thread)

[Jeremy Baron]

On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 5:33 PM, rupert THURNER
rupert.thur...@gmail.com wrote:
moved up from below because I'm answering your points in the context of gitblit:
 On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Faidon Liambotis fai...@wikimedia.org 
 wrote:
 let me give you an example as well. git.wikimedia.org broke, and you,
 faidon, did _absolutely nothing_ to give good feedback to upstream to
 improve the gitblit software.

 * upstream bug: https://code.google.com/p/gitblit/issues/detail?id=294

I don't think filing that was useful or appropriate. That's akin to a
user of [[Diplopedia]] or portlandwiki.org reporting a site outage at
WMF bugzilla.

 hi faidon, i do not think you personally and WMF are particularly
 helpful in accepting contributions. because you:
 * do not communicate openly the problems

What do you call https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49371 ?

 * do not report upstream publically

and https://code.google.com/p/gitblit/issues/detail?id=274 ?

 * do not ask for help, and even if it gets offered you just ignore it
 with quite some arrogance

Help is *very* often welcome and accepted. (sometimes takes a while to
get outside submissions reviewed and sometimes not. there are
certainly people that can help if something's gotten stuck. e.g.
Sumana)

As Ken said, getting the site working again is often a higher priority
than making stack traces. This is especially true because it wasn't a
new issue, time had already been put into investigating it and
tweaking various parameters as well as working with upstream and it
wasn't hard to reproduce the issue. (i.e. the stack trace could be
made at other times if needed and could wait for it to be made by
someone already investigating the problem; I don't know offhand how
involved Faidon's been with the gitblit investigations but I know Chad
was very (more?) involved with it.)

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikimedia's anti-surveillance plans: site hardening

[Jeremy Baron]

On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 7:03 PM, Max Semenik maxsem.w...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 17.08.2013, 22:19 Brian wrote:
 its more a config issue on our end than a problem with gitblit.

 Frankly, all web apps that allow anons do crazy shit with GET requests
 should at least mark critical links with rel=nofollow, so at least
 part of the blame lies on Gitblit:)

I think a more important problem is the various cache prevention
headers emitted by gitblit. Ops and Chad are well aware of that issue
and have gotten upstream fixes for that (with public bugzilla bugs and
google code issues!) and I guess are still working with upstream on
further fixes for those headers.

But this is not constructive to the site hardening thread so let's
either follow up on the other thread I just started or drop it
entirely.

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Wikimedia's anti-surveillance plans: traffic analysis resistance

[Jeremy Baron]

On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 12:04 AM, Zack Weinberg za...@cmu.edu wrote:
  * State transitions between reading and editing.

Reads on our projects (whether logged in or out) have very little data
coming from the client and a lot being sent back to the client. When a
page is saved or previewed (or even in during an edit with calls to
the parsoid web service?) or file uploaded then suddenly there's more
substantial traffic going from the client up to the projects.

This could be mitigated in part by chunking larger transmissions and
sending them over time. Which we already do for some users with the
upload wizard. (i.e. file uploads. we could expand that to cover more
users) Those chunked transmissions could be then spread out over time
and mixed in with transmissions of garbage when there's no pending
chunk to send.

That may be OK from a UX perspective for file uploads (run in the
background and let the user do other stuff while the upload runs) but
I don't think people will want to wait for their edits (or previews!)
to go through.

Also, we'd probably need an opt-out option for sending the garbage
when idle and we'd have to research the potential impact on bandwidth
bills/quotas. And maybe also impact on battery life??

(it couldn't be opt-in because the fact that you had opted in would
itself be an indicator that you might be an editor.)

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] git.wikimedia.org dead?

[Jeremy Baron]

On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 2:25 AM, K. Peachey p858sn...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Leslie Carr lc...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 looks like the robots.txt isn't being served - so googlebot is
 grabbing things from the zip files
 client denied by server configuration: /var/www/robots.txt

 sadly too jetlagged to keep looking at this :(

 make sure you look at robot.txt and not Robot.txt,

 As chad points out, its being served now

it's plural (robots.txt)

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Re: [Wikitech-l] How's the SSL thing going?

[Jeremy Baron]

On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 9:04 AM, Antoine Musso hashar+...@free.fr wrote:
 Le 01/08/13 06:52, Jeremy Baron a écrit :
 We (society, standards making bodies, etc.) need to do more to reform
 the current SSL mafia system. (i.e. it should be easier for a vendor
 to remove a CA from a root store and we shouldn't have a situation
 where many dozens of orgs all have the ability to sign certs valid for
 any domain.)

 I'm not sure how much we (Wikimedia) can do about that though.

 Potentially similar minded foundations could form a new foundation that
 would be their SSL authority :-]  I am not sure whether it would be cost
 effective though.

That would take years of lead time (once the CA is all ready) to get
into vendor root stores. And then you have to wait for the products to
actually ship.

I guess we could also get cross-signed for the interim. Anyway, would
need some long-term vision/investment. That wouldn't help anything
until at least the end of next year. But then we still end up with the
same problem: dozens of other orgs (in addition to the new
hypothetical non-profit) can fraudulently sign a cert for wikipedia
and be trusted nearly everywhere.

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] How's the SSL thing going?

[Jeremy Baron]

On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 8:56 PM, Paul Selitskas p.selits...@gmail.com wrote:
 Yes, that is exactly what I do. But Google, for instance, redirects me to
 HTTP, and if I've logged via HTTPS recently, I would have to log in once
 again via HTTP. It's very frustrating.

I think you've misinterpreted. HTTPS Everywhere is a proper noun.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere

 Are there public statistics on HTTPS
 v. HTTP processed requests share for Wikimedia? Rough numbers?

I have no idea.

 For inexperienced users yet concerned about privacy, there should be an
 HTTP/HTTPS switch in the Preferences page. We have one at the
 registration/log-in page, but I'd like MediaWiki to remember that I want to
 use HTTPS only.

That was considered but I believe the consensus was not to do that.
Instead we will (eventually) force all logged in users to HTTPS as
long as they're logged in. (So like your proposal except that the
preference is hidden and always enabled for everyone)

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] How's the SSL thing going?

[Jeremy Baron]

On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 4:28 AM, Anthony wikim...@inbox.org wrote:
 On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 5:59 PM, George Herbert 
 george.herb...@gmail.comwrote:
 The second is site key security (ensuring the NSA never gets your private
 keys).

 Who theoretically has access to the private keys (and/or the signing key)
 right now?

The roots. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Sysadmins#List (was out of
date last time I overhauled it, maybe it's being updated more
regularly now)

 The third is perfect forward security with rapid key rotation.

 Does rapid key rotation in any way make a MITM attack less detectable?
 Presumably the NSA would have no problem getting a fraudulent certificate
 signed by DigiCert.

I'm not seeing the relevance. And we have the SSL observatory (EFF) fwiw.

We (society, standards making bodies, etc.) need to do more to reform
the current SSL mafia system. (i.e. it should be easier for a vendor
to remove a CA from a root store and we shouldn't have a situation
where many dozens of orgs all have the ability to sign certs valid for
any domain.)

I'm not sure how much we (Wikimedia) can do about that though.

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Page view stats failure

[Jeremy Baron]

On Jul 24, 2013 12:43 AM, Ikuya Yamada ik...@sfc.keio.ac.jp wrote:
 It seems that the page view statistics data does not contain the
 actual data for the last few hours.

 http://dumps.wikimedia.org/other/pagecounts-raw/2013/2013-07/

 Are there any failures on the server-side?

Just looking at file sizes I can see 15, 16, and 20-05(the current hour)
UTC all look smaller than normal. (yes, something's broken)

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Bot upload of files over 100MB

[Jeremy Baron]

On Jun 25, 2013 5:44 PM, Daniel Mietchen daniel.mietc...@googlemail.com
wrote:
 my bot[1] occasionally stumbles upon files that are above 100MB and
 thus does not upload them[2]. What do I have to do to get it set up
 for handling these files too?

this looks like the relevant section:

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Upload#Chunked_uploading

I don't know the current settings; you might need to enable chunked uploads
in the MediaWiki prefs for the user you're uploading as.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Proposal for Inline commenting , summer of code project.

[Jeremy Baron]

On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Sastry aditya ganeshadit...@gmail.com wrote:
 *Typical working hours: 2:00 PM to 12:30AM*

That's essentially useless data without a timezone...

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Anyone using Apache 2.4 to run MediaWiki?

[Jeremy Baron]

On Apr 27, 2013 12:30 AM, Dmitriy Sintsov ques...@rambler.ru wrote:
 Surely it was some not so long time ago, there even was old httpd patch.
Maybe they consider new hardware powerful enough so the difference became
negligible.

parse error.

what are you talking about? must be some missing context.

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Data-URI and WebP for thumbnails, a cute experiment

[Jeremy Baron]

On Apr 22, 2013 9:18 AM, Denny Vrandečić denny.vrande...@wikimedia.de
wrote:
 But the pages get quite bigger, obviously. Also, it introduces a caching
 issue for images...

That's why we have https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/32618 :-)

 Still, pretty cool.

Yeah… makes me wonder what the status of SPDY is. (client-side too)

-Jeremy
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Announcement: Erik Bernhardson joins Wikimedia as Features Engineer

[Jeremy Baron]

On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 11:00 PM, Terry Chay tc...@wikimedia.org wrote:
 His first official day is today (April 22). He is going to work with the 
 Editor Engagement team on Messaging, and any other stuff we can throw at him 
 until he feels sufficiently overwhelmed. I’m still trying to figure out how 
 to verbally distinguish between my boss and him (suggestions welcome!).

What do you do with Erik Zachte?

 Please join me in a welcoming Erik to the Wikimedia Foundation. :-)

Welcome!

-Jeremy

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Re: [Wikitech-l] Survey: best times for volunteering

[Jeremy Baron]

On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 12:49 PM, DeltaQuad Wikipedia
deltaquadw...@gmail.com wrote:
 Is this for these specific dates or in general?

The doodle itself says:
 In an *average* week, when are you more available to volunteer a couple of
 hours? Multiple choices are good.

 Examples of activities: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Calendar

 VERY IMPORTANT: select your timezone!

-Jeremy

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