Re: [Wikitech-l] captcha idea: proposal for gnome outreach for women 14
On 28 February 2014 18:29, Brad Jorsch (Anomie) bjor...@wikimedia.orgwrote: On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Mansi Gokhale gokhalemans...@gmail.com wrote: Then there's the issue of different interpretation. Take for example https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:Find-all-captcha-idea.png. Is the second image wearing glasses? Or is that a lorgnette or something like opera glasses, both of which are held in front of the eyes rather than worn? https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:Find-the-different-captcha-idea.pnghas a similar problem. The first image is the only one with a cigarette, and the only one with non-realistic coloring. The second is the only bald one, and the only one with something resembling a lorgnette, and the only one not looking in the general direction of the camera, and the only one with a book. The fourth is the only child. The sixth is the only obvious female (I'm not sure about the cat). The eighth is the only one smiling, and the only one with visible teeth. I think this is oversimplifying. Of course some people can interpret a picture puzzle in slightly different ways - the whole *point* of a captcha is to distinguish between the intuitive reasoning of a human and the formulaic reasoning of a computer; if there was absolutely no ambiguity, it would be a very poor captcha. In exactly the same way that the letters on a captcha will sometimes be distorted in such a way that humans genuinely make a mistake, sometimes the questions in a picture puzzle can be sufficiently distorted to the point that they are answered incorrectly. The 'difficulty' of *any* captcha obviously needs to be carefully calibrated to hit the sweet spot between mundanity and ambiguity. But putting out nine pictures of humans and one picture of a cat and asking for the odd one out is no easier to misinterpret than a squiggle that might be a G or might be a 6. --HM ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] captcha idea: proposal for gnome outreach for women 14
On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 6:29 PM, Brad Jorsch (Anomie) bjor...@wikimedia.org wrote: If you display 8 images and the user has to pick one, then even by random guessing the attacker has a 12.5% chance of passing the captcha. That's not good at all. Finding all matching is slightly better since it reduces the guessability (1/256 for 8 images), but still not very good. A traditional captcha using only A-Z is 1/308915776. To do as well with image picking, you'd need to ask the user to choose the matches from a set of about 28. Adding in numbers 2-9 is 1/1544804416, needing a set of about 31 images. The set of possible images also needs to be very large and the categorization private. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/CAPTCHA#Issue:_image_classification_CAPTCHAs_need_a_secret_corpusgoes into much more detail on this issue. A recent example that springs to mind with image-based CAPTCHAs (instead of text) is Snapchat's Find the Ghost, which is very fun for users and apparently was broken very quickly.[1] A lot of times I hear people also suggest we try a honeypot on login/signup instead of text-based CAPTCHAs, and like the Snapchat example, one of the weaknesses here is just not accounting for that fact that people will target popular sites/apps directly. They'll inspect the DOM to find honeypots, they'll notice you use the same logo shape and use computer vision to find that shape, etc. However, it is not overstating it to say that the text-based CAPTCHA we use now is the single most frustrating part of creating an account or logging in (if you misremember your password, which users do all the time). To quote one of our usability tests during the last login/signup redesign: This is ridiculous. I can't even see this..[2] One simpler thing we might try and do right now is regenerate our current pool of CAPTCHAs to make them a bit less hard to read. We've done this kind of tweaking before without too much trouble I think?[3] 1. techcrunch.com/2014/01/21/snaptcha/ 2. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Account_creation_user_experience/User_testing 3. See bug 43546 which Aaron Schulz kindly took care of. He may be able to elaborate more. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] captcha idea: proposal for gnome outreach for women 14
On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 6:05 AM, Happy Melon happy.melon.w...@gmail.comwrote: But putting out nine pictures of humans and one picture of a cat and asking for the odd one out is no easier to misinterpret than a squiggle that might be a G or might be a 6. It seems to me that putting nine pictures of humans and one picture of a cat is probably not much harder of a computer vision task than trying to determine which letter a particular squiggle corresponds to, either. (And that's leaving aside the fact that an 10% success rate for random guessing seems pretty bad for a captcha.) So naturally I thought that the real captchas would have a subtler level of intended oddness, so that the possibility for unintended oddness to confuse people would be greater. -- Brad Jorsch (Anomie) Software Engineer Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] captcha idea: proposal for gnome outreach for women 14
I'm adding the design list. I talked about this recently with a couple of the designers. Matt Flaschen On 02/28/2014 12:07 PM, Mansi Gokhale wrote: hello, These are some approaches i can think of instead of a text based captcha. The image idea where users are asked to spot the odd one out like demonstrated or find all the similar images like mentioned in herehttps://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/CAPTCHA . Also a picture with a part chipped in could be shown and chipped pictures could be given as options like find the missing part from a jigsaw puzzle. The image which would be shown is http://imgur.com/uefeb08 http://imgur.com/KEJqCg3 is the picture which would be the correct option. The other options could be rotated versions of this , which would not be so easy for the bot to match. (unless it somehow worked some digital processing algorithm and matched the color gradients or something like that). This is a good option for people who do not know english or are illiterate and maybe would not understand questions like : is this a bird , plane , superman? after being shown a picture. Tell me what you think (Sorry to upload those images on imgur. i dont know how to put them on the wiki .Hope that is ok) have posted this on the CAPTCHA pagehttps://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:CAPTCHAalso ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] captcha idea: proposal for gnome outreach for women 14
I think this is an intriguing approach - particularly for use cases on mobile devices. We display captchas as necessary through MobileFrontend when they are triggered, but the mobile experience is horrible (arguably the whole captcha experience is horrible regardless of the medium, but that's another conversation). As long as we need to surface captchas, something non-text based, especially if it didn't require typing, would be preferable. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Mansi Gokhale gokhalemans...@gmail.comwrote: hello, These are some approaches i can think of instead of a text based captcha. The image idea where users are asked to spot the odd one out like demonstrated or find all the similar images like mentioned in herehttps://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/CAPTCHA . Also a picture with a part chipped in could be shown and chipped pictures could be given as options like find the missing part from a jigsaw puzzle. The image which would be shown is http://imgur.com/uefeb08 http://imgur.com/KEJqCg3 is the picture which would be the correct option. The other options could be rotated versions of this , which would not be so easy for the bot to match. (unless it somehow worked some digital processing algorithm and matched the color gradients or something like that). This is a good option for people who do not know english or are illiterate and maybe would not understand questions like : is this a bird , plane , superman? after being shown a picture. Tell me what you think (Sorry to upload those images on imgur. i dont know how to put them on the wiki .Hope that is ok) have posted this on the CAPTCHA pagehttps://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:CAPTCHAalso ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Arthur Richards Software Engineer, Mobile [[User:Awjrichards]] IRC: awjr +1-415-839-6885 x6687 ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha Idea Proposal for GSOC 2014
Hi and thanks for being interested in Wikimedia! Please take a look at how your email looked to a lot of people: http://imgur.com/4OuPSyN (You can see it in our mailing list archives: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2014-February/074812.html ) Could you re-send it with your numbered points separated better, so we can read it? Thanks! Sumana Harihareswara Engineering Community Manager Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha Idea Proposal for GSOC 2014
I figured out following way we can approach the project:1)Alphabetical order captcha:We can use Html5's drag and drop Api to list a particular Set of images into one category .for example in the example mentoined in the demo here ,i made a collection of diff words starting with letters A,B,C as an output i grouped up words with starting letter A diff from words with starting letter B,CAs,i used text in this example we can use images of diff animals such as cat's and dog.and by drag and drop we can group images of cat and that of dog in diff categories. 2)Annotation captcha:We can use Images With annotations from commons determine the subcategoriy the annotations belongs to and then give relevant options to the users ;for example in the file we can search from names of different annotations to which they corresponds to from wikipedia(names given here are those of mountain) and then give the the option's much relevant to the image. 3)Effect captcha:We can use image as a question which are changed by the effect produced php's gd library and the use the same file with another effect and then ask user to match the two files.for example:the image1 can be used as a question asking user to click on the image that matches with the question image and as an answer we can give this spiral image of the original image.Similarly we can give filters to different images producing different options asking user for right answer. 4)Direct captcha:We can ask to user direct questions like ask for selecting cat out of options consisting of images of cats and humans.an example by pginer demonstrate this example 5)Ask User to click on given effect: Asking user to click on images consisting of spiral effect's out of options which consist of images with spiral and other effects(example:grey scale). 6)Drag and Drop character in Correct Place: We can use drag and drop api of html5 to ask user to form an particular alphabet or no out of the pieces of character provided .Here is an example to form an character A and an digit 8 out of the same pieces of character. This drag and drop capability can be further enhance to form a particular shapes.For example form a clip art from a particular set of piece of shapesfor example the image given here inserts the correct nose as asked in the in the questions out of the possible options provided. Most,Importantly i think creation of an index system would be fruitful since it would rank the inappropriate images on the basis of users response (rank is negative for an image if user needs to reload a captcha) to a provided captcha.This as the time passes will provide us with relevant images which are user friendly and equivalently secure to use... In addition i sincerely appreciate a point mentioned by Gmansi of creation of jigsaw puzzle for the images but in my view point there will be listing of some particular category of images and those ranked higher in indexing system to be used as jigsaw puzzle. As an additonal help we can use Extension Assira to make our extension smarter. please give your valuable suggestions as we can work to improve this amazing project. nbsp;at nbsp;https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:CAPTCHA nbsp;:) nbsp;Thank YouAalekh NigamaalekhN From: Aalekh Nigamlt;aalekh1...@rediffmail.comgt; Sent: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 23:32:16 To: wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.orglt;wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.orggt; Subject: Captcha Idea Proposal for GSOC 2014 1)Alphabetical order captcha:We can use Html5's drag and drop Api to list a particular Set of images into one category .for example in the example mentoinednbsp;in the demo herenbsp;,i made a collection of diff words starting with letters A,B,C as an output i grouped up words with starting letter A diff from words with starting letter B,CAs,i used text in this example we can use images of diff animals such as cat's and dog.and by drag and drop we can group images of cat and that of dog in diff categories.2)Annotation captcha:We can usenbsp;Images With annotationsnbsp;from commons determine the subcategoriy the annotations belongs to and then give relevant options to the usersnbsp;;for example in thenbsp;filenbsp;we can search from names of different annotations to which they corresponds to from wikipedia(names given here are those of mountain) and then give the the option's much relevant to the image.3)Effect captcha:We can use image as a question which are changed by the effect produced php's gd library and the use the same file with another effect and then ask user to match the two files.for example:thenbsp;image1nbsp;can be used as a question asking user to click on the image that matches with the question image and as an answer we can give thisnbsp;spiral imagenbsp;of the original image.Similarly we can give filters to different images producing different options asking user for right answer.4)Direct captcha:We can ask to user direct questions
Re: [Wikitech-l] captcha idea: proposal for gnome outreach for women 14
On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Mansi Gokhale gokhalemans...@gmail.comwrote: The image idea where users are asked to spot the odd one out like demonstrated or find all the similar images like mentioned in herehttps://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/CAPTCHA If you display 8 images and the user has to pick one, then even by random guessing the attacker has a 12.5% chance of passing the captcha. That's not good at all. Finding all matching is slightly better since it reduces the guessability (1/256 for 8 images), but still not very good. A traditional captcha using only A-Z is 1/308915776. To do as well with image picking, you'd need to ask the user to choose the matches from a set of about 28. Adding in numbers 2-9 is 1/1544804416, needing a set of about 31 images. The set of possible images also needs to be very large and the categorization private. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/CAPTCHA#Issue:_image_classification_CAPTCHAs_need_a_secret_corpusgoes into much more detail on this issue. Then there's the issue of different interpretation. Take for example https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:Find-all-captcha-idea.png. Is the second image wearing glasses? Or is that a lorgnette or something like opera glasses, both of which are held in front of the eyes rather than worn? https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:Find-the-different-captcha-idea.png has a similar problem. The first image is the only one with a cigarette, and the only one with non-realistic coloring. The second is the only bald one, and the only one with something resembling a lorgnette, and the only one not looking in the general direction of the camera, and the only one with a book. The fourth is the only child. The sixth is the only obvious female (I'm not sure about the cat). The eighth is the only one smiling, and the only one with visible teeth. Also a picture with a part chipped in could be shown and chipped pictures could be given as options like find the missing part from a jigsaw puzzle. The image which would be shown is http://imgur.com/uefeb08 http://imgur.com/KEJqCg3 is the picture which would be the correct option. The other options could be rotated versions of this , which would not be so easy for the bot to match. (unless it somehow worked some digital processing algorithm and matched the color gradients or something like that). That seems very simple for a computer to solve. Just find the option with minimal difference along the join edges, which is probably easier than what they already do for OCRing text captchas. As far as captchas, I still think https://xkcd.com/810/ is the way to go. -- Brad Jorsch (Anomie) Software Engineer Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] captcha idea: proposal for gnome outreach for women 14
On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 1:29 PM, Brad Jorsch (Anomie) bjor...@wikimedia.org wrote: A traditional captcha using only A-Z is 1/308915776. That should be a traditional *6 letter* captcha using only A-Z. Sorry for the noise. -- Brad Jorsch (Anomie) Software Engineer Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha Idea Proposal for GSOC 2014
Your links didn't work at all, so I can't give specific comments. On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 1:02 PM, Aalekh Nigam aalekh1...@rediffmail.comwrote: 1)Alphabetical order captcha:We can use Html5's drag and drop Api to list a particular Set of images into one category .for example in the example mentoinednbsp;in the demo herenbsp;,i made a collection of diff words starting with letters A,B,C as an output i grouped up words with starting letter A diff from words with starting letter B,CAs,i used text in this example we can use images of diff animals such as cat's and dog.and by drag and drop we can group images of cat and that of dog in diff categories. What if someone thinks your picture of a dog is wolf, or puppy, or hound, or terrier, or animal, etc? Or what if the user identifies your images in Spanish or Chinese rather than English, resulting in a different order? Also, how easy would it be for the spambot to download the entire list of images+names and just brute force it? And what are the bot's chances by randomly guessing? If there are 8 images to sort, it's a 1/40320 chance. Which isn't very good as far as captchas go, 6 letters A-Z is 1/308915776. 2)Annotation captcha:We can usenbsp;Images With annotationsnbsp;from commons determine the subcategoriy the annotations belongs to and then give relevant options to the usersnbsp;;for example in thenbsp;filenbsp;we can search from names of different annotations to which they corresponds to from wikipedia(names given here are those of mountain) and then give the the option's much relevant to the image. What's to stop the spambot from finding the image on Commons? And looking at that category, are users really going to be able to reliably identify the Fiat Grande Punto in https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%22_01_-_ITALY_-_ALFA_ROMEO_SPIDER_SILVER_15.jpg, or figure out WTF UP 5 and UP 6 are supposed to be in https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%22_12_-_ITALY_-_Serie_UP_di_Gaetano_Pesce_UP_5_e_6_al_Triennale_Design_Museum_di_Milano_4.jpg, or Colli Euganei in https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%22_12_-_ITALY-_Sunset_in_Cavarzere_08.JPG, or identify the birds by scientific name in https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:-_Plastic_boxes_-.jpg, or guess which chloroplast (in German!) to pick in https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:03-10_Mnium2.jpg? 3)Effect captcha:We can use image as a question which are changed by the effect produced php's gd library and the use the same file with another effect and then ask user to match the two files.for example:thenbsp;image1nbsp;can be used as a question asking user to click on the image that matches with the question image and as an answer we can give thisnbsp;spiral imagenbsp;of the original image.Similarly we can give filters to different images producing different options asking user for right answer. Spambots already solve this sort of thing when OCRing text captchas. 4)Direct captcha:We can ask to user direct questions like ask for selecting cat out of options consisting of images of cats and humans.an example by pginer demonstrate thisnbsp;example I just replied to this idea at http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2014-February/074816.html 5)Ask User to click on given effect: Asking user to click on images consisting of spiral effect's out of options which consist of images with spiral and other effects(example:greyscale). That requires people actually know what the effects names are, which doesn't seem particularly accessible. And again, OCRing is probably harder for bots. 6)Drag and Drop character in Correct Place: We can use drag and drop api of html5 to ask user to form an particular alphabet or no out of the pieces of character provided .Herenbsp;is an example to form an character A and an digit 8 out of the same pieces of character.This drag and drop capability can be further enhance to form a particular shapes.For example form a clip art from a particular set of piece of shapesfor example the image givennbsp;hereinserts the correct nose as asked in the in the questions out of the possible options provided.Most,Importantly i think creation of an index system would be fruitful since it would rank the inappropriate images on the basis of users response (rank is negative for an image if user needs to reload a captcha) to a provided captcha.This as the time passes will provide us with relevant images which are user friendly and equivalently secure to use...In addition i sincerely appreciate a point mentioned by Gmansi of creation of jigsaw puzzle for the images but in my view point there will be listing of some particular category of images and those ranked higher in indexing system to be used as jigsaw puzzle.as an additonal help we can usenbsp;Extension Assiranbsp;to make our extension smarter.please give your valuable suggestions as we can work to improve this amazing project. nbsp;at
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha filter list
On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 2:31 AM, Benjamin Lees emufarm...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 2:00 AM, Tim Landscheidt t...@tim-landscheidt.de wrote: I checked out the registration form for a white supremacist forum, and they just use reCAPTCHA. No doubt they'll be developing a CAPTJCA or CAPTMCA soon enough. Conversely, one could use an empathy CAPTCHA to try to screen out that type of crowd (although it might merely screen out the politically incorrect). http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/10/empathy-captcha/ ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha filter list
On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 2:31 AM, Benjamin Lees emufarm...@gmail.com wrote: I checked out the registration form for a white supremacist forum, and they just use reCAPTCHA. No doubt they'll be developing a CAPTJCA or CAPTMCA soon enough. There are likely a number of strings that should be added to the default blacklist. Patches welcome! Yes, sites that want to screen out users with certain political, religious, etc. sensibilities could, with some small tweaks to the code, create a ConfirmEdit whitelist that causes *all* CAPTCHAs to contain words calculated to offend those groups. Actually, with QuestyCaptcha, this is already possible. One could include in $wgCaptchaQuestions answers that require the user to type in strings denigrating certain groups or deities; swearing allegiance to certain causes or entities; or stating that one has certain stigmatized attractions, preferences or desires or engages in certain stigmatized behaviors. One could also use it to screen for a certain level of intelligence, knowledge, etc. in a given field by asking questions only certain people would be able to answer. The possibilities are endless once one's main priority becomes to repel or screen out, rather than attract, most potential users. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha filter list
On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 7:05 PM, George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.comwrote: Just got a report and screenshot that a new user got this string for their captcha on en.wikipedia nigerblew http://snag.gy/JpSUR.jpg Though several people are pointing out that Niger is a country, I think it's reasonable to try and avoid things close to the two-g version of that word; nobody's denigrated by avoiding possibly offensive if misinterpreted words. I recall there's a filter list?... I don't know if there's a filter list, but this has happened before. I've seen many of our past and current CAPTCHAs when we were testing the signup/login redesign. I recall seeing both headshits and obamadick. The CAPTCHA is two randomly generated English words. Personally, I think it might just be good to regenerate the CAPTCHAs entirely from time to time. AFAIK it's not that hard and our CAPTCHAs are weak anyway. Steven ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha filter list
There's a blacklist that has been included with FancyCaptcha for a few months, although I don't know whether it's the same as the one the WMF uses. See https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21025 and the associated patches. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha filter list
It's a CAPTCHA, not an article or piece of actual content. If people are actually getting offended by randomly generated CAPTCHAs I think they need to find something more worthwhile to complain about. -- Tyler Romeo On Jan 1, 2014 12:27 AM, Benjamin Lees emufarm...@gmail.com wrote: There's a blacklist that has been included with FancyCaptcha for a few months, although I don't know whether it's the same as the one the WMF uses. See https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21025 and the associated patches. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha filter list
Tyler, websites everywhere blacklist offensive words (and with some regularity, look and sound-alikes) from the random captcha generator... I don't personally care, you don't, but if we offend people needlessly it's an oops. We need some elements of the site to meet Lowest Common Denominator rather than most enlightened participant. That all said, it is possible the screenshot was a fake; the brand new user posted two things on-wiki; one a faked source for a BBC actress article, and two the screenshot for the captcha. On-wiki conclusion was we were trolled. Not sure if that means the screenshot was a photoshop job or a real one, whether that was part of the troll or not. But the actual edit was a good solid troll. On Tue, Dec 31, 2013 at 9:30 PM, Tyler Romeo tylerro...@gmail.com wrote: It's a CAPTCHA, not an article or piece of actual content. If people are actually getting offended by randomly generated CAPTCHAs I think they need to find something more worthwhile to complain about. -- Tyler Romeo On Jan 1, 2014 12:27 AM, Benjamin Lees emufarm...@gmail.com wrote: There's a blacklist that has been included with FancyCaptcha for a few months, although I don't know whether it's the same as the one the WMF uses. See https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21025 and the associated patches. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha filter list
On 01/01/2014 12:34 AM, George Herbert wrote: Tyler, websites everywhere blacklist offensive words (and with some regularity, look and sound-alikes) from the random captcha generator... Yes, and then we end up with the Scunthorpe problem instead. I agree it's a little bit silly, and also a loosing proposition; even trying to filter for /actual/ cuss words is hard enough (because the list of word/fragments someone *might* find offensive is boundless); if we try to also block misspelling, lookalikes or cognates we might as well block /^[a-z]*$/. -- Marc ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha filter list
On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 12:42 AM, Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote: Yes, and then we end up with the Scunthorpe problem instead. The Scunthorpe problem is not actually a problem here, because we're just limiting the CAPTCHAs we serve to users, not filtering their input. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha filter list
Marc A. Pelletier m...@uberbox.org wrote: Tyler, websites everywhere blacklist offensive words (and with some regularity, look and sound-alikes) from the random captcha generator... Yes, and then we end up with the Scunthorpe problem instead. I agree it's a little bit silly, and also a loosing proposition; even trying to filter for /actual/ cuss words is hard enough (because the list of word/fragments someone *might* find offensive is boundless); if we try to also block misspelling, lookalikes or cognates we might as well block /^[a-z]*$/. Not only that, the selection of blacklisted words may be of- fensive itself. For example, https://git.wikimedia.org/blob/mediawiki%2Fextensions%2FConfirmEdit/master/blacklist protects the Christian god with two entries, while Allah is up for ridicule. And it might even require Jews to type in the tetragrammaton and thus effectively ban them from a site. IMHO if someone is offended by a captcha, they should click on reload. Tim ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha filter list
On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 2:00 AM, Tim Landscheidt t...@tim-landscheidt.dewrote: Not only that, the selection of blacklisted words may be of- fensive itself. That doesn't seem like a problem, since the list isn't visible in the user interface. Users will not be complaining that they aren't receiving niggardly, cocky, and cumin in CAPTCHAs. For example, https://git.wikimedia.org/blob/mediawiki%2Fextensions%2FConfirmEdit/master/blacklist protects the Christian god with two entries, while Allah is up for ridicule. And it might even require Jews to type in the tetragrammaton and thus effectively ban them from a site. I checked out the registration form for a white supremacist forum, and they just use reCAPTCHA. No doubt they'll be developing a CAPTJCA or CAPTMCA soon enough. There are likely a number of strings that should be added to the default blacklist. Patches welcome! ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] CAPTCHA
On 21/03/13 08:05, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: Restrictive wikis for captchas are only a handful (plus pt.wiki which is in permanent emergency mode). https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Newly_registered_user For them you could request confirmed flag at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/SRP Personally I found it easier to do the required 10, 50 or whatever edits on a userpage. 5 min at most and you're done. Nemo Their problem is likely that their accounts are new, not that those wikis additionally require a minimum number of edits (only a handful of wikis have that). ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] CAPTCHA
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:23 PM, James Heilman jmh...@gmail.com wrote: Hey All I have someone helping me add translation done by Translators Without Borders of key medical articles. An issue that slows the work is that many languages require CAPTCHA to save the edits. Is their anyway around this (ie to get an account confirmed in all languages)? This doesn't quite solve your problem, but one enhancement that may reduce frustration is the addition of a refresh button on the CAPTCHA ( https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14230). This is slowly but surely being worked on at https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/44376/ Steven ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] CAPTCHA
Restrictive wikis for captchas are only a handful (plus pt.wiki which is in permanent emergency mode). https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Newly_registered_user For them you could request confirmed flag at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/SRP Personally I found it easier to do the required 10, 50 or whatever edits on a userpage. 5 min at most and you're done. Nemo ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] CAPTCHA
Technically it should be possible. I believe there's a Request for permissions page or something of the sorts on meta-wiki for this purpose. Somebody with more knowledge can correct me if I'm wrong. *-- * *Tyler Romeo* Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2015 Major in Computer Science www.whizkidztech.com | tylerro...@gmail.com On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 11:23 PM, James Heilman jmh...@gmail.com wrote: Hey All I have someone helping me add translation done by Translators Without Borders of key medical articles. An issue that slows the work is that many languages require CAPTCHA to save the edits. Is their anyway around this (ie to get an account confirmed in all languages)? Project is here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Medicine/Translation_task_force/RTT -- James Heilman MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine www.opentextbookofmedicine.com ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
I made some mockups to illustrate some of the ideas on captchas that could be less problematic for non-English speakers, improve the general UX and rely on images from commons. - Panorama captcha: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Panorama-captcha-idea.png Based on tagging parts of a panorama picture with the appropriate word (in the UI language or Basic English words). - 'Who is who' captcha: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Find-all-captcha-idea.png Based on finding from a set of similar images the ones that fit a specific criteria (with an image describing also the criteria). - 'Find the different' captcha: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Find-the-different-captcha-idea.png Based on finding the image that is different from a set of images. These captchas will probably generate new problems for the technical side, require adjustments to reduce the chance of a machine to solve them, or may just be unfeasible to generate, but I wanted to provide these ideas in case anybody else may use it as a base for improve on any technical weakness they may have and make them at least as hard to solve for a machine as text-based captchas are. Pau On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Helder . helder.w...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Everton Zanella Alvarenga ezalvare...@wikimedia.org wrote: After working on campus with new editors in Brazil, I've checked this is a real obstacle, since most people here cannot ready English at all. I'd like to know if there are plans to solve this issue - I hope I don't sound rude, maybe this can be a minor issue when we don't see the difficulties people from a different place can face. I think this is important for Wikipedias other than the English one (just read people comments in the bug) and we can be loosing new contributors because of their first impressions. Thanks, It should be noted that this is the only Wikipedia where the captcha is triggered for any edits made by anonymous or unconfirmed users[1], not just for edits which add urls. So, those users are affected by any issues of captcha on ALL their edits. Best regards, Helder [1] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/gitweb?p=operations/mediawiki-config.git;a=blob;f=wmf-config/InitialiseSettings.php;h=5dd1bb63d399f0ba7bc49a4656dfed9109b550da;hb=HEAD#l8470 ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Pau Giner Interaction Designer Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 1:59 AM, Pau Giner pgi...@wikimedia.org wrote: I made some mockups to illustrate some of the ideas on captchas that could be less problematic for non-English speakers, improve the general UX and rely on images from commons. - Panorama captcha: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Panorama-captcha-idea.png Based on tagging parts of a panorama picture with the appropriate word (in the UI language or Basic English words). - 'Who is who' captcha: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Find-all-captcha-idea.png Based on finding from a set of similar images the ones that fit a specific criteria (with an image describing also the criteria). - 'Find the different' captcha: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Find-the-different-captcha-idea.png Based on finding the image that is different from a set of images. These captchas will probably generate new problems for the technical side, require adjustments to reduce the chance of a machine to solve them, or may just be unfeasible to generate, but I wanted to provide these ideas in case anybody else may use it as a base for improve on any technical weakness they may have and make them at least as hard to solve for a machine as text-based captchas are. Thanks Pau, that's really helpful. :) Since we've progressed from just the idea stage to mockups, but we still have a lot of different options, I've started an RfC on MediaWiki.org where we can list all the issues and potential solutions. I don't personally think we need to come to a consensus right now, but CAPTCHAs are going to keep coming up even if no action is taken in the short term, so we should document all our ideas. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/CAPTCHA Steven ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
On 31 July 2012 22:25, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Risker wrote: Putting on my checkuser hat for a moment - yes, please please look at finding a different CAPTCHA process - the cross-wiki spamming by bots that are able to break the CAPTCHA is becoming overwhelming. This issue has been reported separately, and there may be a different fix, but this is a pretty big deal as a few hundred volunteer hours a month are going into the despamming effort. Reported separately where? Bugzilla, I understand, by one or more of the checkusers CAPTCHAs were designed for test if you're human, not test if you're spam. It's a wonder they've worked this long. I imagine better anti-spam tools are needed (which may be a new extension, new AbuseFilter filters, better user scripts, etc.). They're spambots and thus both non-human and spammy. If the situation is as dire as it sounds, it shouldn't be difficult to find a few resources to throw at the problem. In a discussion like this, examples of particular problematic behavior (links!) are always most helpful to developers, I've found. This is the bad behavior we're seeing and want to stop. How should we do that? :-) I've been advised some of WMF's best are already working on it; however, if you want to see examples you could look at steward Billinghurst's block logs, mostly on non=English wikis. Risker/Anne ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 4:30 AM, Risker risker...@gmail.com wrote: If the situation is as dire as it sounds, it shouldn't be difficult to find a few resources to throw at the problem. In a discussion like this, examples of particular problematic behavior (links!) are always most helpful to developers, I've found. This is the bad behavior we're seeing and want to stop. How should we do that? :-) I've been advised some of WMF's best are already working on it; however, if you want to see examples you could look at steward Billinghurst's block logs, mostly on non=English wikis. There are indeed a few of us working to improve the tools that we're using to prevent, detect, and react/recover from spam on WMF wikis. None of our tools are going to be perfect, and that's why we need all approaches. Preventing spam bots from editing using captchas is just one tool that we're using to prevent spam, so it's not at the top of my list for development projects. But this conversation has been helpful. If there are any ways that we can make captchas easier for legitimate users, prevent more bots, and decrease the amount of spam that AbuseFilter has to catch, then it's a win for us. If there is strong consensus for ways to improve our captchas, then I think we can certainly add it to our list of projects and prioritize it with our available resources (or help find volunteers to implement). ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:53 AM, Everton Zanella Alvarenga ezalvare...@wikimedia.org wrote: After working on campus with new editors in Brazil, I've checked this is a real obstacle, since most people here cannot ready English at all. I'd like to know if there are plans to solve this issue - I hope I don't sound rude, maybe this can be a minor issue when we don't see the difficulties people from a different place can face. I think this is important for Wikipedias other than the English one (just read people comments in the bug) and we can be loosing new contributors because of their first impressions. Thanks, It should be noted that this is the only Wikipedia where the captcha is triggered for any edits made by anonymous or unconfirmed users[1], not just for edits which add urls. So, those users are affected by any issues of captcha on ALL their edits. Best regards, Helder [1] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/gitweb?p=operations/mediawiki-config.git;a=blob;f=wmf-config/InitialiseSettings.php;h=5dd1bb63d399f0ba7bc49a4656dfed9109b550da;hb=HEAD#l8470 ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
Sounds like captchas is something you want to make plug and play, and use some external project that is evolving quickly to stay in the winning side of a arms race. Also sounds like captchas is something you want to be handled by locals, to avoid the situation a chinese wiki with a english captcha. Is pretty much proved that small self-made captchas don't do for something like mediawiki, because attackers target it and is a huge delicious target. Has experience of people with AI and computer power raise, perhaps this will become a lost battle*. The other option is anon can't edit articles, ...anon edits are invisible and waiting for moderation, ..anon changes are satinified in some way (perhaps not allowing new external links / modiying links ). * I can imagine the ability of bots to understand catpchas will grown, but not the ability of humans. -- -- ℱin del ℳensaje. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
On 30 July 2012 15:22, Platonides platoni...@gmail.com wrote: On 30/07/12 15:28, Pau Giner wrote: From the UX perspective, a captcha is always an obstacle for the interaction flow. I agree. But when you're spammed to death if there's no captcha, you end up accepting it as a necessary evil. Just to jump in here, it's not actually clear that our CAPTCHAs work at all at this point (per Tim's e-mail from last year of being able to robotically break ours 75% of the time). On https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Admin_tools_development (created last week), we in WMF Engineering noted that we'd want to look properly at some data around these CAPTCHAs and how they're working. This might show us that it would be sensible to just turn them off (which of course would help usability for all users), as long as we're happy that the tools for preventing the vandalism they were intended to stop are working well. Yours, -- James D. Forrester Product Manager for Visual Editor and Flagged Revisions Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. jforres...@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester | +1 415-839-6885 x6844 ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
On 31 July 2012 13:53, James Forrester jforres...@wikimedia.org wrote: On 30 July 2012 15:22, Platonides platoni...@gmail.com wrote: On 30/07/12 15:28, Pau Giner wrote: From the UX perspective, a captcha is always an obstacle for the interaction flow. I agree. But when you're spammed to death if there's no captcha, you end up accepting it as a necessary evil. Just to jump in here, it's not actually clear that our CAPTCHAs work at all at this point (per Tim's e-mail from last year of being able to robotically break ours 75% of the time). On https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Admin_tools_development (created last week), we in WMF Engineering noted that we'd want to look properly at some data around these CAPTCHAs and how they're working. This might show us that it would be sensible to just turn them off (which of course would help usability for all users), as long as we're happy that the tools for preventing the vandalism they were intended to stop are working well. Yours, - Putting on my checkuser hat for a moment - yes, please please look at finding a different CAPTCHA process - the cross-wiki spamming by bots that are able to break the CAPTCHA is becoming overwhelming. This issue has been reported separately, and there may be a different fix, but this is a pretty big deal as a few hundred volunteer hours a month are going into the despamming effort. Risker/Anne ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
On 31/07/12 19:53, James Forrester wrote: I agree. But when you're spammed to death if there's no captcha, you end up accepting it as a necessary evil. Just to jump in here, it's not actually clear that our CAPTCHAs work at all at this point (per Tim's e-mail from last year of being able to robotically break ours 75% of the time). On https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Admin_tools_development (created last week), we in WMF Engineering noted that we'd want to look properly at some data around these CAPTCHAs and how they're working. This might show us that it would be sensible to just turn them off (which of course would help usability for all users), as long as we're happy that the tools for preventing the vandalism they were intended to stop are working well. Yours, I went to a certain site I was recently pointed to. Site is plain MediaWiki. No antispam extensions installed. Bot ips weren't blocked either. Bots seem to have been editing in a single article. Article created in 2011 10 July 2012: First vandalism edit. Page replaced with gibberish, including gibberish links. This looks like a test to see if it is patrolled or not. On 2012-07-15 they start replacing with working domains and keywords. From 2012-07-15 to 2012-07-30 there are 500-600 spammy edits *per day*. Today (2012-07-31) edit count raised to 1643 edits. That's a rate of 1.14 edits per minute! Those look like generic bots, though. SimpleAntiSpam or MathCaptcha may be able to stop them. It may be worth preparing some honeypots for them and observing their behavior. Our wikis are much better protected, though. Any such bot would be blocked, the article protected, the ips added to the SpamBlacklist, and an EditFilter written to autoblock him everytime. But it is useful to see the sharks that are out there. And even with many wikignomes, they can easily get overwhelmed when trying to stop it first time. Regards ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
Risker wrote: Putting on my checkuser hat for a moment - yes, please please look at finding a different CAPTCHA process - the cross-wiki spamming by bots that are able to break the CAPTCHA is becoming overwhelming. This issue has been reported separately, and there may be a different fix, but this is a pretty big deal as a few hundred volunteer hours a month are going into the despamming effort. Reported separately where? CAPTCHAs were designed for test if you're human, not test if you're spam. It's a wonder they've worked this long. I imagine better anti-spam tools are needed (which may be a new extension, new AbuseFilter filters, better user scripts, etc.). If the situation is as dire as it sounds, it shouldn't be difficult to find a few resources to throw at the problem. In a discussion like this, examples of particular problematic behavior (links!) are always most helpful to developers, I've found. This is the bad behavior we're seeing and want to stop. How should we do that? :-) MZMcBride ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
1 Август 2012 г. 6:26:02 пользователь MZMcBride (z...@mzmcbride.com) написал: Risker wrote: Putting on my checkuser hat for a moment - yes, please please look at finding a different CAPTCHA process - the cross-wiki spamming by bots that are able to break the CAPTCHA is becoming overwhelming. This issue has been reported separately, and there may be a different fix, but this is a pretty big deal as a few hundred volunteer hours a month are going into the despamming effort. Reported separately where? CAPTCHAs were designed for test if you're human, not test if you're spam. It's a wonder they've worked this long. I imagine better anti-spam tools are needed (which may be a new extension, new AbuseFilter filters, better user scripts, etc.). If the situation is as dire as it sounds, it shouldn't be difficult to find a few resources to throw at the problem. In a discussion like this, examples of particular problematic behavior (links!) are always most helpful to developers, I've found. This is the bad behavior we're seeing and want to stop. How should we do that? :-) How's about image-based approach? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAPTCHA#Interaction_with_images_as_an_alternative_to_texting_.28text_typing.29 http://www.picatcha.com/captcha/ Dmitriy ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
From the UX perspective, a captcha is always an obstacle for the interaction flow. Reducing the complexity of user interaction when solving the captcha can benefit all kinds of users but also solve problems for non-English speakers. Checkbox and honeypot-based captchas avoid most of the problems of text-based captchas since interaction is simplified to the minimum for the user: http://uxmovement.com/forms/captchas-vs-spambots-why-the-checkbox-captcha-wins/ Simple questions where the user can select an answer (not type) will solve some of the input-related issues for non-English speakers. These questions can be of different kinds (e.g., Which one does not belong to the group: Red, Green, Skateboard, Blue?, Is fire hot or cold?) and they can be based on text or image selection. An example of image-based captcha is available at http://www.picatcha.com/captcha/ Tagging media can be also used as a captcha. Google has been experimenting with asking users to tag videos as a captcha: http://cups.cs.cmu.edu/soups/2009/proceedings/a14-kleuver.pdf [PDF] In any case, some experimentation would be required to determine any of the above approaches (or combination of several) provides an appropriate security-usability balance for the specific needs of the Wikipedia. Pau On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 8:29 PM, Platonides platoni...@gmail.com wrote: On 28/07/12 16:55, Everton Zanella Alvarenga wrote: In the conclusion: Contrary to the common belief, text-based CAPTCHAs can be difficult for foreigners. It is worth reading and likely the same for references there in. The first sentence is similar to what I have experience in 3 classes. And people begin to get anxious and usually say If I type wrongly again, I'll give up. I've seen 3 students saying this to me. Even if hypothetically had in an experiment that only 1% of foreigners will face difficulties with CAPTCHA in a foreign language (I bet it's much more from real life experience), how much users this would represent in one of the most accessed sites in the world? Tom There are two types of foreigners here: - One are speakers of another language written in latin1 (such as Brazilians). - Another are those who use a diferent writing script, such as Russians or Greeks. In the first case, they should have little problem. Native speakers of the language used for the wordlist have an extra help, because they are more likely to recognise the words and it can also help them perform error recovery. It would be nice to provide a captcha with a native wordlist, but by limiting to ascii characters, it can get pretty universal. Distortion where a letter looks like a different one is still problematic. Even people with English knowledge can have trouble with it, so being a native speaker doesn't magically make you invulnerable to captcha errors. On 16th July of 2007 Arnomane reported a case where o distortion made it look like an a, on August I reported another where an s looked like a g. I expect that using random characters would make it worse, though. People with other scripts are a different matter. * They may not be able to recognise the latin characters. * You may be forcing them to change the language layouts for solving the captcha. * Foreign visitors may not be able to pass your captcha. ** Lack of appropiate keyboard layout. ** Unable to differenciate the characters (you want me to differenciate ت and ث distorted in a noisy background?) ** No fonts installed for viewing the characters (eg. 〝 vs 〞) such as if you were trying to browse the in character map the script characters of the language (potentially hundreds!) looking for a visual match. Yet, there are reports such as this by Liangent (native Chinese speaker) on this list on 5th February 2011: I hate the case that I'm asked with a Chinese captcha when I'm surfing some Chinese websites without IME available. Besides I don't prefer Chinese captchas personally because Chinese characters usually require more key hits. At least for those languages I think we would need a switch to get a captcha in the different language. We should also add the button to get a new captcha (bug 14230), which should help when you get the wrong captcha. And I think we should also add a Problems solving the captcha? Mail us link for those cases when people can't pass the captcha. Not that it would solve their problems, but it would at least provide a way to lighten their frustration. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Pau Giner Interaction Designer Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
Those checkbox and honeypot captchas look like junk to me. Firstly the checkbox captcha. It relies entirely on the assumption that spambots don't have JavaScript. It also assumes that spambots won't simply get wise and throw a few regexp tests to figure out when the plugin is sitting on the page inserting a form element. If people actually start using checkbox captchas they will inevitably become useless. Additionally it imposes the requirement that the client has JavaScript enabled simply to make an edit. This is something we consider unacceptable. honeypot-captchas... yeah, we already have that: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SimpleAntiSpam If it weren't for the fact that it's useless for login-only and private wikis I'd bake it right into core. honeypot-captchas aren't actually captchas. As a testament to that a real captcha and SimpleAntiSpam can be installed at the same time. And I do recommend you do that. SimpleAntiSpam trips up the trivial bots while the captcha deals with the non-trivial link inserting bots. But that's all they do. Beyond the most worthless of spambots, honeypot-captchas have absolutely no value. If a bot is capable of breaking any normal captcha it is already sophisticated enough that a honeypot-captcha will do absolutely nothing. Need I remind people we have bots walking around that know how to register and login to MediaWiki. Know how to deal with image captchas. Know how to wait for autoconfirmed status. Know how to confirm an AbuseFilter warning page. And even know how to upload an image and use it in wikitext. -- ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name] On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 06:28:13 -0700, Pau Giner pgi...@wikimedia.org wrote: From the UX perspective, a captcha is always an obstacle for the interaction flow. Reducing the complexity of user interaction when solving the captcha can benefit all kinds of users but also solve problems for non-English speakers. Checkbox and honeypot-based captchas avoid most of the problems of text-based captchas since interaction is simplified to the minimum for the user: http://uxmovement.com/forms/captchas-vs-spambots-why-the-checkbox-captcha-wins/ Simple questions where the user can select an answer (not type) will solve some of the input-related issues for non-English speakers. These questions can be of different kinds (e.g., Which one does not belong to the group: Red, Green, Skateboard, Blue?, Is fire hot or cold?) and they can be based on text or image selection. An example of image-based captcha is available at http://www.picatcha.com/captcha/ Tagging media can be also used as a captcha. Google has been experimenting with asking users to tag videos as a captcha: http://cups.cs.cmu.edu/soups/2009/proceedings/a14-kleuver.pdf [PDF] In any case, some experimentation would be required to determine any of the above approaches (or combination of several) provides an appropriate security-usability balance for the specific needs of the Wikipedia. Pau On Sat, Jul 28, 2012 at 8:29 PM, Platonides platoni...@gmail.com wrote: On 28/07/12 16:55, Everton Zanella Alvarenga wrote: In the conclusion: Contrary to the common belief, text-based CAPTCHAs can be difficult for foreigners. It is worth reading and likely the same for references there in. The first sentence is similar to what I have experience in 3 classes. And people begin to get anxious and usually say If I type wrongly again, I'll give up. I've seen 3 students saying this to me. Even if hypothetically had in an experiment that only 1% of foreigners will face difficulties with CAPTCHA in a foreign language (I bet it's much more from real life experience), how much users this would represent in one of the most accessed sites in the world? Tom There are two types of foreigners here: - One are speakers of another language written in latin1 (such as Brazilians). - Another are those who use a diferent writing script, such as Russians or Greeks. In the first case, they should have little problem. Native speakers of the language used for the wordlist have an extra help, because they are more likely to recognise the words and it can also help them perform error recovery. It would be nice to provide a captcha with a native wordlist, but by limiting to ascii characters, it can get pretty universal. Distortion where a letter looks like a different one is still problematic. Even people with English knowledge can have trouble with it, so being a native speaker doesn't magically make you invulnerable to captcha errors. On 16th July of 2007 Arnomane reported a case where o distortion made it look like an a, on August I reported another where an s looked like a g. I expect that using random characters would make it worse, though. People with other scripts are a different matter. * They may not be able to recognise the latin characters. * You may be forcing them to change the language
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
On 30/07/12 15:28, Pau Giner wrote: From the UX perspective, a captcha is always an obstacle for the interaction flow. I agree. But when you're spammed to death if there's no captcha, you end up accepting it as a necessary evil. But don't let this pessimistic view stop you from proposing new alternatives. Reducing the complexity of user interaction when solving the captcha can benefit all kinds of users but also solve problems for non-English speakers. Checkbox and honeypot-based captchas avoid most of the problems of text-based captchas since interaction is simplified to the minimum for the user: http://uxmovement.com/forms/captchas-vs-spambots-why-the-checkbox-captcha-wins/ No. Those work against generic spambots. For a small site, pretty much any custom-made captcha will work. When someone designs against your captcha, you need to provide a hard test. If we were comparing against a math captcha, checkbox is more usable while only slightly weaker. None of them has a chance against a captcha designed against them. If you run Wikipedia, bad guys will work to defeat your captcha and spam/vandalise/annoy you. If you are developing MediaWiki, a wiki used in thousands of sites [1], spammers will work to make bots capable to spam those many MediaWiki installs (cf. DantMan reply) If you are Open Source, then it's much harder to make (not only due to security by obscurity of the code, but also of the own challenges...). 1- http://www.google.com/search?q=%22powered%20by%20mediawiki%22 ~201.000.000 results Simple questions where the user can select an answer (not type) will solve some of the input-related issues for non-English speakers. These questions can be of different kinds (e.g., Which one does not belong to the group: Red, Green, Skateboard, Blue?, Is fire hot or cold?) and they can be based on text or image selection. An example of image-based captcha is available at http://www.picatcha.com/captcha/ No. Those are *harder* since you need a knowledge of English language and terms. I can fill in a text captcha in a foreign language site since its own appearance (after being trained by hundreds of sites!) shows what it is expected from me. If I go to http://www.picatcha.com/captcha/, I am asked to Select ALL the images of «concept». Which is fine but requires me to know what is that «concept». I might eg. think that hourglasses are a kind of spectacles (eyeglasses) and get very annoyed by not being able to pass it. Also, making good questions is tricky. You need to produce loads of that kind of questions with their answers, if you made just a few hundreds (eg. it's done by a human), I could make a list of questions with their answer (manually solved) and spam you as many times I want. You want to make intelligent questions hard for bots, but anyone should be able to solve them, even if they are young, uneducated or foreign. I may know that I have to rule colors out, but I don't which of skateboard vs turquoise is the color. And yet, you can't dumbify it so much that a computer will be able to answer it. Suppose you are performing questions of type Is X Y or Z? and have made thousands of pairs (that you can't share!). A naive approach would just to answer Y or Z at random, accepting a 50% of failure (bots don't mind resending their requests many times, a 50% blocking captcha is broken). But we can do better, when you ask my bot Is fire hot or cold? it could go and search google for those concepts: * fire hot 1.210.000.000 results * fire cold 656.000.000 results There's a very clear correlation of fire with hot rather than with cold, thus it chooses 'hot', and defeats your captcha. :) Tagging media can be also used as a captcha. Google has been experimenting with asking users to tag videos as a captcha: http://cups.cs.cmu.edu/soups/2009/proceedings/a14-kleuver.pdf [PDF] If we were doing this with Wikimedia Commons videos a) The video set is known, as are the descriptions. Ergo, match the video with its file and . b) IMHO having to watch a video (even if short) is *more* annoying than typing a text captcha.* c) No/poor localisation. * This needs to be balanced with how much you want to enter the captcha-walled garden, of course. I may accept watching your CEO boasting about your service (from which you then ask me the captcha**) in exchange for a gmail-like mail account or multigigabyte dropbox storage, but not to watch one everytime I sign in! ** Don't complain if he's tagged by most users as 'boring'. :) In any case, some experimentation would be required to determine any of the above approaches (or combination of several) provides an appropriate security-usability balance for the specific needs of the Wikipedia. We would first need an evaluation of what is considered spam, and how to measure. If we get lots of bots the next day you enable it, it's clearly broken, but how much time would we need before being x% confident that it is secure enough, when you are
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
Usability of CAPTCHAs Or usability issues in CAPTCHA design, Jeff Yan and Ahmad Salah El Ahmad (Newcastle University, UK) http://homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/jeff.yan/soups08.pdf Pages 3 and 4: Friendly to foreigners? In theory, text-based CAPTCHAs are intuitive to world-wide users and have little localization issues – these were recognised by many researchers (e.g. [5]) as major advantages of text-based CAPTCHAs over other schemes. However, in a small scale test carried out with 20 students in the first author’s class in October 2007, we observed that many foreign students whose mother tongue does not use the Latin alphabet performed much worse than those whose first language is based on Latin alphabet (e.g. native English speakers), when asked to recognise distorted challenges generated by BaffleText [6], an early text-based scheme. The former found it hard to recognise (or even guess) distorted letters in the scheme. [...] The performance difference between foreigners and natives does not appear to be large in the case of reCAPTCHA. However, given the size of population using this service (hundreds of thousands websites serving millions of people at least, for example, popular sites such as Facebook and Twitter are amongst subscribers of this service), this “being friendly to foreigners” issue can be a serious usability concern. Moreover, for schemes whose designers were unaware of this issue, usability problems caused can be even worse. [...] In the conclusion: Contrary to the common belief, text-based CAPTCHAs can be difficult for foreigners. It is worth reading and likely the same for references there in. The first sentence is similar to what I have experience in 3 classes. And people begin to get anxious and usually say If I type wrongly again, I'll give up. I've seen 3 students saying this to me. Even if hypothetically had in an experiment that only 1% of foreigners will face difficulties with CAPTCHA in a foreign language (I bet it's much more from real life experience), how much users this would represent in one of the most accessed sites in the world? Tom -- Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom) Wikimedia Brasil Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
On 28/07/12 16:55, Everton Zanella Alvarenga wrote: In the conclusion: Contrary to the common belief, text-based CAPTCHAs can be difficult for foreigners. It is worth reading and likely the same for references there in. The first sentence is similar to what I have experience in 3 classes. And people begin to get anxious and usually say If I type wrongly again, I'll give up. I've seen 3 students saying this to me. Even if hypothetically had in an experiment that only 1% of foreigners will face difficulties with CAPTCHA in a foreign language (I bet it's much more from real life experience), how much users this would represent in one of the most accessed sites in the world? Tom There are two types of foreigners here: - One are speakers of another language written in latin1 (such as Brazilians). - Another are those who use a diferent writing script, such as Russians or Greeks. In the first case, they should have little problem. Native speakers of the language used for the wordlist have an extra help, because they are more likely to recognise the words and it can also help them perform error recovery. It would be nice to provide a captcha with a native wordlist, but by limiting to ascii characters, it can get pretty universal. Distortion where a letter looks like a different one is still problematic. Even people with English knowledge can have trouble with it, so being a native speaker doesn't magically make you invulnerable to captcha errors. On 16th July of 2007 Arnomane reported a case where o distortion made it look like an a, on August I reported another where an s looked like a g. I expect that using random characters would make it worse, though. People with other scripts are a different matter. * They may not be able to recognise the latin characters. * You may be forcing them to change the language layouts for solving the captcha. * Foreign visitors may not be able to pass your captcha. ** Lack of appropiate keyboard layout. ** Unable to differenciate the characters (you want me to differenciate ت and ث distorted in a noisy background?) ** No fonts installed for viewing the characters (eg. 〝 vs 〞) such as if you were trying to browse the in character map the script characters of the language (potentially hundreds!) looking for a visual match. Yet, there are reports such as this by Liangent (native Chinese speaker) on this list on 5th February 2011: I hate the case that I'm asked with a Chinese captcha when I'm surfing some Chinese websites without IME available. Besides I don't prefer Chinese captchas personally because Chinese characters usually require more key hits. At least for those languages I think we would need a switch to get a captcha in the different language. We should also add the button to get a new captcha (bug 14230), which should help when you get the wrong captcha. And I think we should also add a Problems solving the captcha? Mail us link for those cases when people can't pass the captcha. Not that it would solve their problems, but it would at least provide a way to lighten their frustration. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
2012/7/26 Platonides platoni...@gmail.com: Thet don't need to read English. They just need to type the letters they see on the image. Sure, you can have a small advantage if you know what letters could make a valid English word (or if you have the captcha dictionary installed), but a Brazilian which can read wikipedia should have no problems typing the captcha. If that is the case, why don't we change the CAPTCH for random letters? -- Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom) Wikimedia Brasil Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
I think that making Russian, Korean and Arabian captcha is really bad idea. English keyboad layout is installed by default in all operation systems, as far as I know. Moreover very interesting problems can appear if this feature would be implemented. Who will decide what captcha language is used? We can look at user IP address - then sometimes the foreigners will be in trouble. We can use Ukrainian capcha for the Ukrainian wesites - thus assuming that every person who knows Ukrainian has the Ukrainian keyboard layout, which is not true. I think that the assumption that everyone in the internet is able to print English letters loking at their noised example is not very bold assumption. 26.07.2012 17:53 пользователь Everton Zanella Alvarenga ezalvare...@wikimedia.org написал: Hi all, how are you? I'd like to know about the possibility of solving an old issue with CAPTCHA for Wikipedias in languages other than English. This bug https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5309 was created in 2006. There is a discussion here about having CAPTCHA in other languages from February 2012 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.technical/51951/ but it seems there was no conclusion. After working on campus with new editors in Brazil, I've checked this is a real obstacle, since most people here cannot ready English at all. I'd like to know if there are plans to solve this issue - I hope I don't sound rude, maybe this can be a minor issue when we don't see the difficulties people from a different place can face. I think this is important for Wikipedias other than the English one (just read people comments in the bug) and we can be loosing new contributors because of their first impressions. Thanks, Tom -- Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom) Wikimedia Brasil Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
Maybe present three or four different capcha's with different scripts, requiring only one to be filled out? On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 8:09 PM, Yury Katkov katkov.ju...@gmail.com wrote: I think that making Russian, Korean and Arabian captcha is really bad idea. English keyboad layout is installed by default in all operation systems, as far as I know. Moreover very interesting problems can appear if this feature would be implemented. Who will decide what captcha language is used? We can look at user IP address - then sometimes the foreigners will be in trouble. We can use Ukrainian capcha for the Ukrainian wesites - thus assuming that every person who knows Ukrainian has the Ukrainian keyboard layout, which is not true. I think that the assumption that everyone in the internet is able to print English letters loking at their noised example is not very bold assumption. 26.07.2012 17:53 пользователь Everton Zanella Alvarenga ezalvare...@wikimedia.org написал: Hi all, how are you? I'd like to know about the possibility of solving an old issue with CAPTCHA for Wikipedias in languages other than English. This bug https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5309 was created in 2006. There is a discussion here about having CAPTCHA in other languages from February 2012 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.technical/51951/ but it seems there was no conclusion. After working on campus with new editors in Brazil, I've checked this is a real obstacle, since most people here cannot ready English at all. I'd like to know if there are plans to solve this issue - I hope I don't sound rude, maybe this can be a minor issue when we don't see the difficulties people from a different place can face. I think this is important for Wikipedias other than the English one (just read people comments in the bug) and we can be loosing new contributors because of their first impressions. Thanks, Tom -- Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom) Wikimedia Brasil Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
On 27.07.2012, 22:09 Yury wrote: I think that making Russian, Korean and Arabian captcha is really bad idea. English keyboad layout is installed by default in all operation systems, as far as I know. Moreover very interesting problems can appear if this feature would be implemented. Who will decide what captcha language is used? We can look at user IP address - then sometimes the foreigners will be in trouble. We can use Ukrainian capcha for the Ukrainian wesites - thus assuming that every person who knows Ukrainian has the Ukrainian keyboard layout, which is not true. I think that the assumption that everyone in the internet is able to print English letters loking at their noised example is not very bold assumption. Even funnier: imagine a Eeuropean trying to just read a Chinese captcha:) -- Best regards, Max Semenik ([[User:MaxSem]]) ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
2012/7/28 Max Semenik maxsem.w...@gmail.com: On 27.07.2012, 22:09 Yury wrote: I think that making Russian, Korean and Arabian captcha is really bad idea. English keyboad layout is installed by default in all operation systems, as far as I know. Moreover very interesting problems can appear if this feature would be implemented. Who will decide what captcha language is used? We can look at user IP address - then sometimes the foreigners will be in trouble. We can use Ukrainian capcha for the Ukrainian wesites - thus assuming that every person who knows Ukrainian has the Ukrainian keyboard layout, which is not true. I think that the assumption that everyone in the internet is able to print English letters loking at their noised example is not very bold assumption. Even funnier: imagine a Eeuropean trying to just read a Chinese captcha:) Funny as it may be, this is a non-problem. You can easily have a give me an English CAPTCHA link... And that would be one more step for a robot to learn, that is, one more (thin) defence line. Strainu ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
On 27/07/12 16:31, Everton Zanella Alvarenga wrote: 2012/7/26 Platonides platoni...@gmail.com: Thet don't need to read English. They just need to type the letters they see on the image. Sure, you can have a small advantage if you know what letters could make a valid English word (or if you have the captcha dictionary installed), but a Brazilian which can read wikipedia should have no problems typing the captcha. If that is the case, why don't we change the CAPTCH for random letters? You should probably ask Neil Harris, the author of the captcha generator we use. from his 06/02/2011 mail: The wordlists themselves need not be secret: they are only needed to create easily-typed strings that are sufficiently large in number to provide a moderate challenge to brute force guessing. I have added a random captcha at http://test.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/ You can try adding urls at http://test.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/w/index.php?title=Main_Pageaction=edit and http://en.wikipedia.beta.wmflabs.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sandbox for comparing the presented captchas. (yes, testwikibeta is quite broken right now, but the captchas show) ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
2012/7/26 Everton Zanella Alvarenga ezalvare...@wikimedia.org: was created in 2006. There is a discussion here about having CAPTCHA in other languages from February 2012 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.technical/51951/ Sorry, I meant 2011. -- Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom) Wikimedia Brasil Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
Is there a such thing as localized captchas? And should turning off account/ip creation throttling for events also turn off the captcha requirement? - Hunter F. On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 6:54 AM, Everton Zanella Alvarenga ezalvare...@wikimedia.org wrote: 2012/7/26 Everton Zanella Alvarenga ezalvare...@wikimedia.org: was created in 2006. There is a discussion here about having CAPTCHA in other languages from February 2012 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.technical/51951/ Sorry, I meant 2011. -- Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom) Wikimedia Brasil Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
Ehm, I know that I'll sound like a broken record, but look at the WikiCAPTCHA proposal: it's just a proposal, but it could address the problem just by fetching books from the relevant Wikisource. Links in: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/CAPTCHA Nemo ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
On 26/07/12 14:58, Hunter Fernandes wrote: Is there a such thing as localized captchas? And should turning off account/ip creation throttling for events also turn off the captcha requirement? - Hunter F. It's really a matter of configuration; the core captcha code is intrinsically language-agnostic. The existing captcha code takes input from a file with a few thousand short words in, then generates the captchas from a pair of those words. To localize the captcha, all that is needed is to arrange that a different word list (and image pool) is used for each language. If you have a language you want the captcha implemented in, a good first thing to do would be to create a list of say 4 to 5,000 short words in that language for use by the captcha code. -- N. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Captcha for non-English speakers II
On 26/07/12 15:53, Everton Zanella Alvarenga wrote: Hi all, how are you? I'd like to know about the possibility of solving an old issue with CAPTCHA for Wikipedias in languages other than English. This bug https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5309 was created in 2006. There is a discussion here about having CAPTCHA in other languages from February 2012 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.technical/51951/ but it seems there was no conclusion. After working on campus with new editors in Brazil, I've checked this is a real obstacle, since most people here cannot ready English at all. Thet don't need to read English. They just need to type the letters they see on the image. Sure, you can have a small advantage if you know what letters could make a valid English word (or if you have the captcha dictionary installed), but a Brazilian which can read wikipedia should have no problems typing the captcha. That said, it's easy enough to make a different set of captchas if we are provided a suitable dictionary of words (note that we don't want non-ansi letters such as ç in the captcha in case it's seen by a foreign user which doesn't have such letter on its keyboard). ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] CAPTCHA spell checker
On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 5:32 PM, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.org wrote: My original idea was to search for near matches and to provide an autocomplete drop-down, but the necessary UI code for that seemed a bit too complicated for a quick weekend project. Maybe later. We have the UI code already written, in phase3/resources/jquery/jquery.suggestions.js. Roan wrote it for the search box :-) -- Andrew Garrett http://werdn.us/ ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] CAPTCHA spell checker
On 06/02/11 21:39, Andrew Garrett wrote: On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 5:32 PM, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.org wrote: My original idea was to search for near matches and to provide an autocomplete drop-down, but the necessary UI code for that seemed a bit too complicated for a quick weekend project. Maybe later. We have the UI code already written, in phase3/resources/jquery/jquery.suggestions.js. Roan wrote it for the search box :-) There's also jquery.ui.autocomplete, and I looked at the old mwsuggest.js. But GreaseMonkey scripts run in a privileged mode with access to the window via a special sandbox. So it wasn't clear (with my limited GreaseMonkey experience) whether any of these solutions could be trivially ported to that environment. -- Tim Starling ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
