Re: [WISPA] Copper Plant
Sorry for the late reply on this; sometimes life takes presedence :) Doug, you definitely hit a number of things on the head, there. There is a _definite_ need for some much more...shall we say, mature network platforms in the wireless industry, and then for that equipment to be available at affordable prices. Still, I don't necessarily agree with you (Doug) on the pricing. Good stuff like you're describing will never be cheap simply because there aren't enough units produced and sold to make it profitable at lower prices. Is it expensive? Yes. Still, do keep in mind that multi-tenant solutions in the non-wireless world are considerably considerably much more expensive that what you mentioned, not necessarily in terms of gear but definitely in terms of infrastructure (fiber or whatever). This is, btw, done again and again at very lucrative profit margins in aggregate...it would be worth your while to study your competition in the industry and see how they make money :). I wouldn't really expect for the price of such equipment to fall considerably, btw, simply because a large portion of the independent market often is price-conscious to a fault, meaning that too often, a lot of the providers out there deploy less-than ideal systems simply to save a few dollars. As a little inside/outside observation about the independent provider industry, the guys who tend to do better are the guys who, at least when it counts, will pay major money to get the right platform in place, and then sell the hell out of that platform. In a weird sort of way, I sometimes wonder if the ebay / jerry-rig approach that often goes on (which, is often quite technically sound) almost hurts simply because it allows service providers too often to deploy platforms that don't really have a critical mass. Sometime, if you're up for either some humor or hurting (depending on where you're standing), talk to Peter (rad-info Peter) about cost and pricing and profit in the industry. He's got a lot of good insight on the busness operations side of service providers about all the stupid ways that independents often do very bad calculations in their business planning (for example, forget to figure that it costs you money to bill and invoice). The same thing goes into the technical platforms as well. A lot of you guys tend to fixate on the cost of the routers or APs or whatever (ie central networking equipment). If you do a total cost of ownership to your platforms, it often becomes clearer why doubling the cost of your router doesn't really raise your costs all that much and often provides much better value. Anyway, back to my point, whatever that was :). Definitely more mature platforms will have to come in the wireless industry. As a general observation, the biggest difference between the wireline service provider gear and the wireless industry stuff is 1. bandwidth to some degree 2. lack of mature provisioning systems and mechanisms. The wireless industry is still very focused on the connection rather than a service. (for those who haven't really dealt with the other) Provisioning by the service means that you provision services on your platform. Your platform tracks usage, capacity, and so forth, and gives you the ability to provision a service that has some guarantee of bandwidth on an end-to-end basis. For the most part, the wireless industry still operates a little too heavily as just a series of dumb pipes (wireles or not) without no non-overly-cumbersome methods of provisioning across the infrastructure including various classes of services across the infrasrtucture as well. As a result, WISPs networks tend to be an entirely best effort approach end to end. Anyway, just some thoughts and ramblings. Back to other stuff for now... -Clint Ricker Kentnis Technologies On 6/18/07, George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For Last Mile- FreeSpace Optics can be had now up to 1/2 mile for as low as $5K. GB manufacturers are going to realize soon, the day of the huge profit margin will be a thing of the past. The competition is here on all fronts. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband Yep, I just did a 100meg FSO link and it was around $5k for the link. I wuld have preffered to do fiber and I'm sure it would have been not much more, but the beaurocracy to get where I needed to go was slow moving. George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Call to Vendors.....
Does anyone know how well this is penetrating areas with lots of trees? I would guess a few trees would knock this out just as easily as it does 2.4 GHz Wifi? Thoughts? Scriv Doug Ratcliffe wrote: I'm not going to get into an enormous amount of detail, but I know a well-known licensed 2.5ghz NLOS provider, has a maximum NLOS range around their towers of about 3-4 miles (with indoor units). That said, the Sprint-Nextel spectrum is very unlikely to be available on independent lease, and you would be better off contacting whoever is a non-profit or educational licensee in your coverage area for spectrum access. Also, don't discount 2.3ghz, you may be in a coverage area where WCS is available. 4.9ghz is okay but I haven't seen a lot of case studies showing where it penetrates trees compared to 2.5/2.3ghz licensed. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Felix A. Lopez Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Call to Vendors. Blair/Chris: I worked with my local WISP whose been in the business a long time and loved helping them to build their business. We installed a combination mobile mesh/fixed wireless system using equipment from a major manufacturer and provided the following: Wireless Mobile mesh network with the 4.9 GHz license Electric utility metering using the 2.4 GHz (WiFi) in a Point to Point and Point to MultiPoint. The fleet manager will eventually have the modem and mobile server installed in each truck. The utilility meters used a 2.4 Ghz chipset but we had to select the best channel out of 1-13 channels and locked in SSID at Channel 5 after RF spectum analysis (which really means we walked around with a sniffer). There are other mobile modems that you can utilize. I can hardly wait for the new WiMax 802.16(e)/WiFi 802.11(n) Intel Montevina (Centrino) platform to arrive. But of course that means you need a 2.5 GHz license. But as one reader posted I think Sprint may be eager to work with someone on a lease basis to build the business case. I hesitate to mention any manufacturers for fairness. With that being said IMHO it can be designed, commissioned and installed with good RF Planning. I prefer and my field advice is to identify and work through a VAR, channel partner or disributor type VAR who can give you personalized service. Some WISP may have that capability. I built my local WISP into a solutions provider and certified on Mesh. F.Lopez Wireless Practioneer --- chris cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Im interested in vendor response on this as well chris cooper intelliwave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 7:04 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Call to Vendors. This is an invitation to Vendors to contact me if they have equipment that could meet my needs... I have been contacted by government unit that wishes to deploy a mobile, high speed data network in their vehicles. The area of operation is tree infested. The mobile units will never be more than 7 miles from a tower with a base station. LoS is NOT assured from the mobile unit to the base. The mobile units must switch base stations as needed with no user intervention. Use of 2.4GHz band is not acceptable. Min data rates are 256Kbit up by 1Mbit down. I'm open to any technology that will work and to any vendor. Licensed or unlicensed gear would be acceptable. Contact me by e-mail or my cell below. Calling late is fine. I'm up late anyway! -- Blair Davis West Michigan Wireless ISP Cell 269-650-5749 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/805 - Release Date: 5/15/2007 10:47 AM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mailp=summer+activities+for+kidsc s=bz -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Service Request
Hey Charles, I tried contacting you off list, but got a reply from your filter application. Just making sure you got my email. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 9:10 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Service Request Does anyone cover...looking for T1 (or possibly better) level service 909 Avenue T, Suite 200 Grand Prairie, TX 75050 Ping me offlist -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Call to Vendors.....
2.3 and 2.5 GHz will be attenuated by trees in the same manner as 2.4 GHz is attenuated. 4.9 GHz will be attenuated by trees much more completely than 2.4 GHz and almost as completely as 5.8 GHz. By the way (food for thought) 700 MHz in the presence of trees will behave about the way 900 MHz behaves today (or slightly better) when used at the same power levels and receiver sensitivities as today's 900 MHz equipment. jack John Scrivner wrote: Does anyone know how well this is penetrating areas with lots of trees? I would guess a few trees would knock this out just as easily as it does 2.4 GHz Wifi? Thoughts? Scriv Doug Ratcliffe wrote: I'm not going to get into an enormous amount of detail, but I know a well-known licensed 2.5ghz NLOS provider, has a maximum NLOS range around their towers of about 3-4 miles (with indoor units). That said, the Sprint-Nextel spectrum is very unlikely to be available on independent lease, and you would be better off contacting whoever is a non-profit or educational licensee in your coverage area for spectrum access. Also, don't discount 2.3ghz, you may be in a coverage area where WCS is available. 4.9ghz is okay but I haven't seen a lot of case studies showing where it penetrates trees compared to 2.5/2.3ghz licensed. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Felix A. Lopez Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Call to Vendors. Blair/Chris: I worked with my local WISP whose been in the business a long time and loved helping them to build their business. We installed a combination mobile mesh/fixed wireless system using equipment from a major manufacturer and provided the following: Wireless Mobile mesh network with the 4.9 GHz license Electric utility metering using the 2.4 GHz (WiFi) in a Point to Point and Point to MultiPoint. The fleet manager will eventually have the modem and mobile server installed in each truck. The utilility meters used a 2.4 Ghz chipset but we had to select the best channel out of 1-13 channels and locked in SSID at Channel 5 after RF spectum analysis (which really means we walked around with a sniffer). There are other mobile modems that you can utilize. I can hardly wait for the new WiMax 802.16(e)/WiFi 802.11(n) Intel Montevina (Centrino) platform to arrive. But of course that means you need a 2.5 GHz license. But as one reader posted I think Sprint may be eager to work with someone on a lease basis to build the business case. I hesitate to mention any manufacturers for fairness. With that being said IMHO it can be designed, commissioned and installed with good RF Planning. I prefer and my field advice is to identify and work through a VAR, channel partner or disributor type VAR who can give you personalized service. Some WISP may have that capability. I built my local WISP into a solutions provider and certified on Mesh. F.Lopez Wireless Practioneer --- chris cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Im interested in vendor response on this as well chris cooper intelliwave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 7:04 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Call to Vendors. This is an invitation to Vendors to contact me if they have equipment that could meet my needs... I have been contacted by government unit that wishes to deploy a mobile, high speed data network in their vehicles. The area of operation is tree infested. The mobile units will never be more than 7 miles from a tower with a base station. LoS is NOT assured from the mobile unit to the base. The mobile units must switch base stations as needed with no user intervention. Use of 2.4GHz band is not acceptable. Min data rates are 256Kbit up by 1Mbit down. I'm open to any technology that will work and to any vendor. Licensed or unlicensed gear would be acceptable. Contact me by e-mail or my cell below. Calling late is fine. I'm up late anyway! -- Blair Davis West Michigan Wireless ISP Cell 269-650-5749 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/805 - Release Date: 5/15/2007 10:47 AM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mailp=summer+activities+for+kidsc s=bz -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133
RE: [WISPA] Call to Vendors.....
I'm not going to get into an enormous amount of detail, but I know a well-known licensed 2.5ghz NLOS provider, has a maximum NLOS range around their towers of about 3-4 miles (with indoor units). That said, the Sprint-Nextel spectrum is very unlikely to be available on independent lease, and you would be better off contacting whoever is a non-profit or educational licensee in your coverage area for spectrum access. Also, don't discount 2.3ghz, you may be in a coverage area where WCS is available. 4.9ghz is okay but I haven't seen a lot of case studies showing where it penetrates trees compared to 2.5/2.3ghz licensed. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Felix A. Lopez Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Call to Vendors. Blair/Chris: I worked with my local WISP whose been in the business a long time and loved helping them to build their business. We installed a combination mobile mesh/fixed wireless system using equipment from a major manufacturer and provided the following: Wireless Mobile mesh network with the 4.9 GHz license Electric utility metering using the 2.4 GHz (WiFi) in a Point to Point and Point to MultiPoint. The fleet manager will eventually have the modem and mobile server installed in each truck. The utilility meters used a 2.4 Ghz chipset but we had to select the best channel out of 1-13 channels and locked in SSID at Channel 5 after RF spectum analysis (which really means we walked around with a sniffer). There are other mobile modems that you can utilize. I can hardly wait for the new WiMax 802.16(e)/WiFi 802.11(n) Intel Montevina (Centrino) platform to arrive. But of course that means you need a 2.5 GHz license. But as one reader posted I think Sprint may be eager to work with someone on a lease basis to build the business case. I hesitate to mention any manufacturers for fairness. With that being said IMHO it can be designed, commissioned and installed with good RF Planning. I prefer and my field advice is to identify and work through a VAR, channel partner or disributor type VAR who can give you personalized service. Some WISP may have that capability. I built my local WISP into a solutions provider and certified on Mesh. F.Lopez Wireless Practioneer --- chris cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Im interested in vendor response on this as well chris cooper intelliwave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 7:04 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Call to Vendors. This is an invitation to Vendors to contact me if they have equipment that could meet my needs... I have been contacted by government unit that wishes to deploy a mobile, high speed data network in their vehicles. The area of operation is tree infested. The mobile units will never be more than 7 miles from a tower with a base station. LoS is NOT assured from the mobile unit to the base. The mobile units must switch base stations as needed with no user intervention. Use of 2.4GHz band is not acceptable. Min data rates are 256Kbit up by 1Mbit down. I'm open to any technology that will work and to any vendor. Licensed or unlicensed gear would be acceptable. Contact me by e-mail or my cell below. Calling late is fine. I'm up late anyway! -- Blair Davis West Michigan Wireless ISP Cell 269-650-5749 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/805 - Release Date: 5/15/2007 10:47 AM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mailp=summer+activities+for+kidsc s=bz -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.14/845 - Release Date: 6/12/2007 6:39 AM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Service Request
Does anyone cover...looking for T1 (or possibly better) level service 909 Avenue T, Suite 200 Grand Prairie, TX 75050 Ping me offlist -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation
Most of my coverage area is open fields, so there isn't much to making a link work. I have an increasing demand to install an AP in a small town (no point within town is further than 1/2 mile away from the tower site). I prefer to use 5 GHz due to the amount of spectrum available. An article I read said 1.5 db per meter of foliage or 20 db per tree in 5 GHz. The grain leg is 100 - 150 feet tall. Many houses have TV towers. Radio Mobile (not counting foliage) says the worst signal I can expect to see is in the 60s with most in the 50s or 40s. Safe to assume that most of the town will be good to go? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation
Mike, Good to go as long as the TV towers allow you to get the CPE antennas above the trees. jack Mike Hammett wrote: Most of my coverage area is open fields, so there isn't much to making a link work. I have an increasing demand to install an AP in a small town (no point within town is further than 1/2 mile away from the tower site). I prefer to use 5 GHz due to the amount of spectrum available. An article I read said 1.5 db per meter of foliage or 20 db per tree in 5 GHz. The grain leg is 100 - 150 feet tall. Many houses have TV towers. Radio Mobile (not counting foliage) says the worst signal I can expect to see is in the 60s with most in the 50s or 40s. Safe to assume that most of the town will be good to go? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation
I have a 5 mile link where I'm not quite sure if the antenna is above the trees or not as it is on top of a mast. That link is on the better side of -80 for almost 2 years. Based on that I'd think I'd be okay at a half mile or less. I figured that with most of the town at better than -60 and a lot better than -50, I could stand to go through a few meters of tree, but that's why I came here to ask. ;-) Based on the numbers on the site I looked at, 10 db of attenuation is 27' of foliage. That'd put 20 db at 55' of foliage. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation Mike, Good to go as long as the TV towers allow you to get the CPE antennas above the trees. jack Mike Hammett wrote: Most of my coverage area is open fields, so there isn't much to making a link work. I have an increasing demand to install an AP in a small town (no point within town is further than 1/2 mile away from the tower site). I prefer to use 5 GHz due to the amount of spectrum available. An article I read said 1.5 db per meter of foliage or 20 db per tree in 5 GHz. The grain leg is 100 - 150 feet tall. Many houses have TV towers. Radio Mobile (not counting foliage) says the worst signal I can expect to see is in the 60s with most in the 50s or 40s. Safe to assume that most of the town will be good to go? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Anybody here speak Cisco? (topic moved from members list to public list)
I do! CCNA here :) On 6/22/07, John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mac said: I failed to state that he would need his own router behind their router - - I took for granted we all knew that - - guess I figured wrong again :-) Actually, all you need is one router to interconnect your network to your upstream's network. You do not need a router from them if you have a Rebel router or any other comparable router. These can interface with your upstream and your own network just fine. (I have moved this topic from the members only list to the public list.) Scriv -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Dennis Burgess, MCP, CCNA, A+, N+, Mikrotik Certified Consultant www.mikrotikconsulting.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation
It works much like 900Mhz, in other words, you never REALLY know until you put the link up ;) I know that is not what you wanted to hear but honestly I have had links, both 2.4 and 5Ghz that I have said no way on, but they have worked quite well, and I have had others that for no apparent reason just plain suck (most likely a reflection somewhere is causing the issue and moving them around helped). At a 1/2 mile you should be pretty good if you generally can see the tower, but if you are shooting through a tree more often then not, you really should consider 2.4 or 900 quite honestly. One of the biggest things I learned about dealing with trees over the last 3 years is that they grow (duh! :) What works okay this season can really suck next season. There is nothing more frustrating than trying to troubleshoot a connection that has been rock solid for the past year and a half and now sucks. You finally go to the house thinking you have a radio problem, crawl up on the roof and realize that you can no longer see the AP. If you're lucky you can move the CPE to somewhere else on the roof. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Mike Hammett wrote: Could you provide some sort of numbers? How much loss does that 1/4 mile of water-retaining trees have? The town is basically a square with the tower on the far west side in about the center. It is 1/2 mile to the extreme corners, so there are a lot of people 1/4 mile and less. Someone on another list mentioned water retention as a show-stopper, but my limited experience had me thinking just about anything less than a 1/2 mile would work. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Graham McIntire [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation I have two towers running MT APs at 5.8 with CM9s and 16 dBi horiz sectors. Using Osbridge 5GXi's as the CPE, I have clients a few miles out with non-LOS and the occasional treeline without any issues. I also have one house about 3/4 mile away from my tower that's going through nearly 1/4 mile of scattered trees. It attenuates pretty badly during heavy rain until the leaves on the trees dry out, but stays connected. It's my parents-in-law's house, so they're a little more forgiving if it happens to drop than a client would be ;) Half a mile with scattered trees shouldn't be a problem for you, even with snow/rain attenuation. Graham McIntire Verona Networks On 6/22/07, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a 5 mile link where I'm not quite sure if the antenna is above the trees or not as it is on top of a mast. That link is on the better side of -80 for almost 2 years. Based on that I'd think I'd be okay at a half mile or less. I figured that with most of the town at better than -60 and a lot better than -50, I could stand to go through a few meters of tree, but that's why I came here to ask. ;-) Based on the numbers on the site I looked at, 10 db of attenuation is 27' of foliage. That'd put 20 db at 55' of foliage. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation Mike, Good to go as long as the TV towers allow you to get the CPE antennas above the trees. jack Mike Hammett wrote: Most of my coverage area is open fields, so there isn't much to making a link work. I have an increasing demand to install an AP in a small town (no point within town is further than 1/2 mile away from the tower site). I prefer to use 5 GHz due to the amount of spectrum available. An article I read said 1.5 db per meter of foliage or 20 db per tree in 5 GHz. The grain leg is 100 - 150 feet tall. Many houses have TV towers. Radio Mobile (not counting foliage) says the worst signal I can expect to see is in the 60s with most in the 50s or 40s. Safe to assume that most of the town will be good to go? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] Wifi @ a Motel
Single AP in the center with an omni might work although we have had pretty poor luck getting them to work well in the usual L shaped motels we have. If price is a serious issue you could always start with the omni setup and see how well it works I would just be prepared to switch to a multiple AP setup. We have had a lot better luck mounting several under the eaves. We use to use CB3s in AP mode for this, but due to a bug in the senao cards we have switched to using deliberant or highgain internal APs in nema boxes and have been having pretty good luck. You would probably need at least 3 to cover your setup, one on each straight run. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Mark McElvy wrote: I am putting together a quote for an older motel. They want to provide wireless access for their customers. The build is a big curving L or almost U with a set of rooms in the middle. It is all one story but the rise in elevation as it curves around. The rooms are your typical glass front, open walkway motel with carports in front. The length of the L or U is approx 800ft. with the distance across the points about 4-500 ft. How well will say an AP w/omni setting ontop of the center building cover such a setup? Or do I need to lean toward several Ap's w 90 -120 sectors pointed at different sections of the buildings? Or other ideas I have not considered. This will be my first setup like this. Mark McElvy -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Pigtails
Do you have a part number from Tessco? Travis Microserv Matt Liotta wrote: Kelly Shaw wrote: We are having a time with our radio pigtails. As some of you may know, the Trango pigtails (RP-SMA) leave a lot to be desired. The small connector at the radio is very hard to water proof and, for us, needs to be replaced yearly on some of our taller towers. I told Trango a number of times the RP-SMA connector is a big disadvantage. Right now, we've had to replace all of our last batch of Hyperlink pigtails. We too have seen a high rate of failure with Hyperlink's pigtails. We haven't had a single pigtail fail from Tessco though. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation
Could you provide some sort of numbers? How much loss does that 1/4 mile of water-retaining trees have? The town is basically a square with the tower on the far west side in about the center. It is 1/2 mile to the extreme corners, so there are a lot of people 1/4 mile and less. Someone on another list mentioned water retention as a show-stopper, but my limited experience had me thinking just about anything less than a 1/2 mile would work. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Graham McIntire [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation I have two towers running MT APs at 5.8 with CM9s and 16 dBi horiz sectors. Using Osbridge 5GXi's as the CPE, I have clients a few miles out with non-LOS and the occasional treeline without any issues. I also have one house about 3/4 mile away from my tower that's going through nearly 1/4 mile of scattered trees. It attenuates pretty badly during heavy rain until the leaves on the trees dry out, but stays connected. It's my parents-in-law's house, so they're a little more forgiving if it happens to drop than a client would be ;) Half a mile with scattered trees shouldn't be a problem for you, even with snow/rain attenuation. Graham McIntire Verona Networks On 6/22/07, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a 5 mile link where I'm not quite sure if the antenna is above the trees or not as it is on top of a mast. That link is on the better side of -80 for almost 2 years. Based on that I'd think I'd be okay at a half mile or less. I figured that with most of the town at better than -60 and a lot better than -50, I could stand to go through a few meters of tree, but that's why I came here to ask. ;-) Based on the numbers on the site I looked at, 10 db of attenuation is 27' of foliage. That'd put 20 db at 55' of foliage. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation Mike, Good to go as long as the TV towers allow you to get the CPE antennas above the trees. jack Mike Hammett wrote: Most of my coverage area is open fields, so there isn't much to making a link work. I have an increasing demand to install an AP in a small town (no point within town is further than 1/2 mile away from the tower site). I prefer to use 5 GHz due to the amount of spectrum available. An article I read said 1.5 db per meter of foliage or 20 db per tree in 5 GHz. The grain leg is 100 - 150 feet tall. Many houses have TV towers. Radio Mobile (not counting foliage) says the worst signal I can expect to see is in the 60s with most in the 50s or 40s. Safe to assume that most of the town will be good to go? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Wifi @ a Motel
I am putting together a quote for an older motel. They want to provide wireless access for their customers. The build is a big curving L or almost U with a set of rooms in the middle. It is all one story but the rise in elevation as it curves around. The rooms are your typical glass front, open walkway motel with carports in front. The length of the L or U is approx 800ft. with the distance across the points about 4-500 ft. How well will say an AP w/omni setting ontop of the center building cover such a setup? Or do I need to lean toward several Ap's w 90 -120 sectors pointed at different sections of the buildings? Or other ideas I have not considered. This will be my first setup like this. Mark McElvy -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation
I have two towers running MT APs at 5.8 with CM9s and 16 dBi horiz sectors. Using Osbridge 5GXi's as the CPE, I have clients a few miles out with non-LOS and the occasional treeline without any issues. I also have one house about 3/4 mile away from my tower that's going through nearly 1/4 mile of scattered trees. It attenuates pretty badly during heavy rain until the leaves on the trees dry out, but stays connected. It's my parents-in-law's house, so they're a little more forgiving if it happens to drop than a client would be ;) Half a mile with scattered trees shouldn't be a problem for you, even with snow/rain attenuation. Graham McIntire Verona Networks On 6/22/07, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a 5 mile link where I'm not quite sure if the antenna is above the trees or not as it is on top of a mast. That link is on the better side of -80 for almost 2 years. Based on that I'd think I'd be okay at a half mile or less. I figured that with most of the town at better than -60 and a lot better than -50, I could stand to go through a few meters of tree, but that's why I came here to ask. ;-) Based on the numbers on the site I looked at, 10 db of attenuation is 27' of foliage. That'd put 20 db at 55' of foliage. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation Mike, Good to go as long as the TV towers allow you to get the CPE antennas above the trees. jack Mike Hammett wrote: Most of my coverage area is open fields, so there isn't much to making a link work. I have an increasing demand to install an AP in a small town (no point within town is further than 1/2 mile away from the tower site). I prefer to use 5 GHz due to the amount of spectrum available. An article I read said 1.5 db per meter of foliage or 20 db per tree in 5 GHz. The grain leg is 100 - 150 feet tall. Many houses have TV towers. Radio Mobile (not counting foliage) says the worst signal I can expect to see is in the 60s with most in the 50s or 40s. Safe to assume that most of the town will be good to go? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Power Outages: wasISP's Required to Block Sites
Gentlemen: The IEEE 1159 Power Quality Standard for Commercial Industrial applications a good standard to help avoid downtime due to power outages, sags, surges, and related. Search Google for :IEEE1159.1. IEEE1159.2, IEEE1159.3 and IEC 61000-4-30 for standard which provide the methodology for assessing power-quality factors and indices. This link will provides general education: http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/spd/ This link will help you calculate ROI should you decide to spend valuable capital on mitigation equipment: http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/1346/points.html I had the opportunity to work with PQ guys in the 1990s and their/our work helped establish a new standard at SEMI. http://powerstandards.com/cbema.htm The Point: Typically a sag of 60% of nominal voltage will be seen and felt as a power outage by most electrical components. Therefore a zero voltage condition is not needed to experience a power outage. All that is needed to create a zero voltage or power outage experience is a 60% of nominal voltage which is enough to shutdown your equipment. http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_postmortems_vs_predictions/ Most of the WISPs I work with have either some kind of back up. In the United States most I see is APC or Exide UPS systems. But it is one thing to have UPS and another to have UPS+Power Conditioning. . Summer is coming around in the US. Highly constrained distribution systems may experience some downtime. I've always been interested in downtime statistics for big WiSP, medium WiSPs, and smaller WiSPs. I'm sure this is some hat compete information and the downtime not only due to electrical issues. There is also network downtime, software downtime. etc. One commerical carrier funded an interesting report that compared uptime of commercial wireless networks versus uptime of a traditional IP network (LAN not wireless). Thanks for your time, F.Lopez --- Edward H. Winters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looks real to me ... http://www.nac.net/announcements.asp?Action=ViewID=83 ** Update ** 6/22/2007 - 12:45am Our Cedar Knolls Facility (MMU) is no longer running on generator power. Utility service has been restored. All systems are functioning normally and no disruption in power occurred at MMU. The Parsippany data center (OCT) is still running on generator power while we resolve a problem at that site. - 6/21/2007 - 10:30pm We have experienced a power problem caused by lightning in our Parsippany, NJ (OCT) Data Center. This location is currently running on generator power. If you are having any problems with your server please call our Network Operation Center Directly at 973-590-5050. In addition our Cedar Knolls Site (MMU) is also on Generator Power but has not experienced any problems. Ed On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 23:50:14 -0400 Michael Erskine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DSLR's Excuse for being off line Thu Jun 21 21:58:42 EDT 2007 == DSLR is offline at the moment, total power failure at the data center we use (www.nac.net) an hour ago means we have to bring servers up individually, and check for errors. update: Thu Jun 21 23:09:54 EDT 2007 Looks like this is going to take hours to sort out and we're off to do an all nighter at the data center :( Link to nac... Which was working at time for post? http://www.nac.net/ Which part of power outage is an excuse? The part that was spelled subpoena? Ayup, twice in as many years.. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation
No one talks of the type of trees. We've noticed getting through a line of poplars, adjust antenna size, not much of a problem. But one pine tree, or a well placed ash, near impossible. Maybe the pine needles attenuate more because they are thin and in all directions thus absorbing all reflections ?? Anybody else see this. Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 9:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation Could you provide some sort of numbers? How much loss does that 1/4 mile of water-retaining trees have? The town is basically a square with the tower on the far west side in about the center. It is 1/2 mile to the extreme corners, so there are a lot of people 1/4 mile and less. Someone on another list mentioned water retention as a show-stopper, but my limited experience had me thinking just about anything less than a 1/2 mile would work. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Graham McIntire [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation I have two towers running MT APs at 5.8 with CM9s and 16 dBi horiz sectors. Using Osbridge 5GXi's as the CPE, I have clients a few miles out with non-LOS and the occasional treeline without any issues. I also have one house about 3/4 mile away from my tower that's going through nearly 1/4 mile of scattered trees. It attenuates pretty badly during heavy rain until the leaves on the trees dry out, but stays connected. It's my parents-in-law's house, so they're a little more forgiving if it happens to drop than a client would be ;) Half a mile with scattered trees shouldn't be a problem for you, even with snow/rain attenuation. Graham McIntire Verona Networks On 6/22/07, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a 5 mile link where I'm not quite sure if the antenna is above the trees or not as it is on top of a mast. That link is on the better side of -80 for almost 2 years. Based on that I'd think I'd be okay at a half mile or less. I figured that with most of the town at better than -60 and a lot better than -50, I could stand to go through a few meters of tree, but that's why I came here to ask. ;-) Based on the numbers on the site I looked at, 10 db of attenuation is 27' of foliage. That'd put 20 db at 55' of foliage. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation Mike, Good to go as long as the TV towers allow you to get the CPE antennas above the trees. jack Mike Hammett wrote: Most of my coverage area is open fields, so there isn't much to making a link work. I have an increasing demand to install an AP in a small town (no point within town is further than 1/2 mile away from the tower site). I prefer to use 5 GHz due to the amount of spectrum available. An article I read said 1.5 db per meter of foliage or 20 db per tree in 5 GHz. The grain leg is 100 - 150 feet tall. Many houses have TV towers. Radio Mobile (not counting foliage) says the worst signal I can expect to see is in the 60s with most in the 50s or 40s. Safe to assume that most of the town will be good to go? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Tree Attenuation: was 5 GHz attenuation
MIke/WiSPA readers - Here two studies in the public domain published by the US NTIA and study from the Univ. of Texas.(It would be handy to put a table together for WiSP operators just like the ohm resistance tables are done for electrical contractors). ¡§Radio Propagation Considerations...¡¨ .. the results of these studies indicate that for the first 30 m of foliage depth, the increase in vegetation loss is nearly linear at a rate of 1.3-2.0 dB/m, depending on frequency; beyond 30 m, the curve decreases at a rate that averages only 0.05 dB loss per meter. Propagation through the deciduous orchard (in the foliated state) resulted in less loss than propagation through the conifer orchard for any given combination of frequency, transmitter height, and foliage depth. http://www.its.bldrdoc.gov/pub/ntia-rpt/96-331/report_96-331.pdf and; Attenuation from Trees and Forests Trees can be a significant source of path loss, and there are a number of variables involved, such as the specific type of tree, whether it is wet or dry, and in the case of deciduous trees, whether the leaves are present or not. Isolated trees are not usually a major problem, but a dense forest is another story. The attenuation depends on the distance the signal must penetrate through the forest, and it increases with frequency. According to a CCIR report [10], the attenuation is of the order of 0.05 dB/m at 200 MHz, 0.1 dB/m at 500 MHz, 0.2 dB/m at 1 GHz, 0.3 dB/m at 2 GHz and 0.4 dB/m at 3 GHz. http://www.utexas.edu/research/mopro/papercopy/chapter02.pdf F.Lopez Wirelss practitioner (and learning all the time) --- Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kinds? um...I know coniferous vs. deciduous and a couple different kinds of deciduous, but that's about it... Maple, crab apple, locust, that's about it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 12:13 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation No one talks of the type of trees. We've noticed getting through a line of poplars, adjust antenna size, not much of a problem. But one pine tree, or a well placed ash, near impossible. Maybe the pine needles attenuate more because they are thin and in all directions thus absorbing all reflections ?? Anybody else see this. Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 9:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation Could you provide some sort of numbers? How much loss does that 1/4 mile of water-retaining trees have? The town is basically a square with the tower on the far west side in about the center. It is 1/2 mile to the extreme corners, so there are a lot of people 1/4 mile and less. Someone on another list mentioned water retention as a show-stopper, but my limited experience had me thinking just about anything less than a 1/2 mile would work. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Graham McIntire [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation I have two towers running MT APs at 5.8 with CM9s and 16 dBi horiz sectors. Using Osbridge 5GXi's as the CPE, I have clients a few miles out with non-LOS and the occasional treeline without any issues. I also have one house about 3/4 mile away from my tower that's going through nearly 1/4 mile of scattered trees. It attenuates pretty badly during heavy rain until the leaves on the trees dry out, but stays connected. It's my parents-in-law's house, so they're a little more forgiving if it happens to drop than a client would be ;) Half a mile with scattered trees shouldn't be a problem for you, even with snow/rain attenuation. Graham McIntire Verona Networks On 6/22/07, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a 5 mile link where I'm not quite sure if the antenna is above the trees or not as it is on top of a mast. That link is on the better side of -80 for almost 2 years. Based on that I'd think I'd be okay at a half mile or less. I figured that with most of the town at better than -60 and a lot better than -50, I could stand to go through a few meters of tree, but that's why I came here to ask. ;-) Based on the numbers on the site I looked at, 10 db of attenuation is 27' of foliage. That'd put 20 db at 55' of foliage. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jack Unger
RE: [WISPA] Wifi @ a Motel
I agree, I am just looking for some experienced opinions to start with. Mark McElvy ! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 12:32 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wifi @ a Motel I wouldn't think one a/p would be the way to cover it. User will moan and complain if they get a weak signal. You really want to concentrate on getting 105% coverage to avoid the phone ringing off the hook. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 12:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wifi @ a Motel Single AP in the center with an omni might work although we have had pretty poor luck getting them to work well in the usual L shaped motels we have. If price is a serious issue you could always start with the omni setup and see how well it works I would just be prepared to switch to a multiple AP setup. We have had a lot better luck mounting several under the eaves. We use to use CB3s in AP mode for this, but due to a bug in the senao cards we have switched to using deliberant or highgain internal APs in nema boxes and have been having pretty good luck. You would probably need at least 3 to cover your setup, one on each straight run. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation
Kinds? um...I know coniferous vs. deciduous and a couple different kinds of deciduous, but that's about it... Maple, crab apple, locust, that's about it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 12:13 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation No one talks of the type of trees. We've noticed getting through a line of poplars, adjust antenna size, not much of a problem. But one pine tree, or a well placed ash, near impossible. Maybe the pine needles attenuate more because they are thin and in all directions thus absorbing all reflections ?? Anybody else see this. Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 9:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation Could you provide some sort of numbers? How much loss does that 1/4 mile of water-retaining trees have? The town is basically a square with the tower on the far west side in about the center. It is 1/2 mile to the extreme corners, so there are a lot of people 1/4 mile and less. Someone on another list mentioned water retention as a show-stopper, but my limited experience had me thinking just about anything less than a 1/2 mile would work. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Graham McIntire [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation I have two towers running MT APs at 5.8 with CM9s and 16 dBi horiz sectors. Using Osbridge 5GXi's as the CPE, I have clients a few miles out with non-LOS and the occasional treeline without any issues. I also have one house about 3/4 mile away from my tower that's going through nearly 1/4 mile of scattered trees. It attenuates pretty badly during heavy rain until the leaves on the trees dry out, but stays connected. It's my parents-in-law's house, so they're a little more forgiving if it happens to drop than a client would be ;) Half a mile with scattered trees shouldn't be a problem for you, even with snow/rain attenuation. Graham McIntire Verona Networks On 6/22/07, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a 5 mile link where I'm not quite sure if the antenna is above the trees or not as it is on top of a mast. That link is on the better side of -80 for almost 2 years. Based on that I'd think I'd be okay at a half mile or less. I figured that with most of the town at better than -60 and a lot better than -50, I could stand to go through a few meters of tree, but that's why I came here to ask. ;-) Based on the numbers on the site I looked at, 10 db of attenuation is 27' of foliage. That'd put 20 db at 55' of foliage. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation Mike, Good to go as long as the TV towers allow you to get the CPE antennas above the trees. jack Mike Hammett wrote: Most of my coverage area is open fields, so there isn't much to making a link work. I have an increasing demand to install an AP in a small town (no point within town is further than 1/2 mile away from the tower site). I prefer to use 5 GHz due to the amount of spectrum available. An article I read said 1.5 db per meter of foliage or 20 db per tree in 5 GHz. The grain leg is 100 - 150 feet tall. Many houses have TV towers. Radio Mobile (not counting foliage) says the worst signal I can expect to see is in the 60s with most in the 50s or 40s. Safe to assume that most of the town will be good to go? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation
The CPE is a LiteStation5 running OSWave firmware (stock LS5 firmware did not work with Routing/Nat/DHCP), in a 23 dBi ARC Wireless antenna. The trees around here (NE Dallas area) are some pine, oak, pecan, locust, etc. Right now the trees are a little damp from a ton of rain the past few days. Signal levels for the 3/4 mile link with ~1/4 mile trees is: -69 dBm Rx at the CPE -72 dBm Rx on the tower Without the trees that link would be WAY higher than that. I also have a client about 2.5 - 3 miles away NLOS (maybe 1 or 2 treelines) that sits around -80 dBm on both sides. He's been up for almost a year and I don't think it's ever dropped from attenuation. Right now 100% of my clients are on 5.8 GHz. After working with it in the field for a while I can vouch for it being one heck of a tricky animal. Links that look perfectly fine in radiomobile just flat out don't work, and others that RM shows will never work haven't even dropped a single time since they've been up. I just started adding 900 to my towers so I don't have to brute-force my way through iffy links with higher power on 5ghz. Graham McIntire Verona Networks On 6/22/07, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could you provide some sort of numbers? How much loss does that 1/4 mile of water-retaining trees have? The town is basically a square with the tower on the far west side in about the center. It is 1/2 mile to the extreme corners, so there are a lot of people 1/4 mile and less. Someone on another list mentioned water retention as a show-stopper, but my limited experience had me thinking just about anything less than a 1/2 mile would work. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Graham McIntire [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation I have two towers running MT APs at 5.8 with CM9s and 16 dBi horiz sectors. Using Osbridge 5GXi's as the CPE, I have clients a few miles out with non-LOS and the occasional treeline without any issues. I also have one house about 3/4 mile away from my tower that's going through nearly 1/4 mile of scattered trees. It attenuates pretty badly during heavy rain until the leaves on the trees dry out, but stays connected. It's my parents-in-law's house, so they're a little more forgiving if it happens to drop than a client would be ;) Half a mile with scattered trees shouldn't be a problem for you, even with snow/rain attenuation. Graham McIntire Verona Networks On 6/22/07, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a 5 mile link where I'm not quite sure if the antenna is above the trees or not as it is on top of a mast. That link is on the better side of -80 for almost 2 years. Based on that I'd think I'd be okay at a half mile or less. I figured that with most of the town at better than -60 and a lot better than -50, I could stand to go through a few meters of tree, but that's why I came here to ask. ;-) Based on the numbers on the site I looked at, 10 db of attenuation is 27' of foliage. That'd put 20 db at 55' of foliage. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation Mike, Good to go as long as the TV towers allow you to get the CPE antennas above the trees. jack Mike Hammett wrote: Most of my coverage area is open fields, so there isn't much to making a link work. I have an increasing demand to install an AP in a small town (no point within town is further than 1/2 mile away from the tower site). I prefer to use 5 GHz due to the amount of spectrum available. An article I read said 1.5 db per meter of foliage or 20 db per tree in 5 GHz. The grain leg is 100 - 150 feet tall. Many houses have TV towers. Radio Mobile (not counting foliage) says the worst signal I can expect to see is in the 60s with most in the 50s or 40s. Safe to assume that most of the town will be good to go? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
RE: [WISPA] Wifi @ a Motel
I wouldn't think one a/p would be the way to cover it. User will moan and complain if they get a weak signal. You really want to concentrate on getting 105% coverage to avoid the phone ringing off the hook. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sam Tetherow Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 12:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wifi @ a Motel Single AP in the center with an omni might work although we have had pretty poor luck getting them to work well in the usual L shaped motels we have. If price is a serious issue you could always start with the omni setup and see how well it works I would just be prepared to switch to a multiple AP setup. We have had a lot better luck mounting several under the eaves. We use to use CB3s in AP mode for this, but due to a bug in the senao cards we have switched to using deliberant or highgain internal APs in nema boxes and have been having pretty good luck. You would probably need at least 3 to cover your setup, one on each straight run. Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wifi @ a Motel
Mark: The professional RF Planning software is good for large designs. There is also freeware available and I will let the cat out of the bag. http://www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.html Radio Mobile software is a copyright of Roger Coud?VE2DBE. Radio Mobile is dedicated to amateur radio and humanitarian use. Although commercial use is not prohibited, the author cannot be held responsible for its usage. The outputs resulting from the program are under the entire responsibility of the user, and the user should conform to restrictions from external data sources http://www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.html Caveat: Many wireless starters and subject matter experts use the Radio Mobile software as a first glance tool. Because I'm an advocate of the WiFi/WiMax inteface, I would like to think the tool can be used for walking Mobile Radio too. Felix Wireless Practioneer --- Mark McElvy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am putting together a quote for an older motel. They want to provide wireless access for their customers. The build is a big curving L or almost U with a set of rooms in the middle. It is all one story but the rise in elevation as it curves around. The rooms are your typical glass front, open walkway motel with carports in front. The length of the L or U is approx 800ft. with the distance across the points about 4-500 ft. How well will say an AP w/omni setting ontop of the center building cover such a setup? Or do I need to lean toward several Ap's w 90 -120 sectors pointed at different sections of the buildings? Or other ideas I have not considered. This will be my first setup like this. Mark McElvy -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Call to Vendors.....
Thanks for all the comments I'm surprised that none of the Wi-Hype...(opps! :) ), I mean Wi-Max people have not jumped in here The 1Mbit speed requirement is a killer. I could likely convince them that 128Kbit/512Kbit would be fine for what they are doing. I'm leaning toward something that is licensed to allow more power to penetrate the trees. Start-up costs are not really an issue here. Another note The base stations will all be at least 200ft AGL. Blair Davis wrote: This is an invitation to Vendors to contact me if they have equipment that could meet my needs... I have been contacted by government unit that wishes to deploy a mobile, high speed data network in their vehicles. The area of operation is tree infested. The mobile units will never be more than 7 miles from a tower with a base station. LoS is NOT assured from the mobile unit to the base. The mobile units must switch base stations as needed with no user intervention. Use of 2.4GHz band is not acceptable. Min data rates are 256Kbit up by 1Mbit down. I'm open to any technology that will work and to any vendor. Licensed or unlicensed gear would be acceptable. Contact me by e-mail or my cell below. Calling late is fine. I'm up late anyway! -- Blair Davis West Michigan Wireless ISP Cell 269-650-5749 -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wifi @ a Motel
Felix, With all due respect, the Radio Mobile cat has been out of the bag for many (perhaps 5) years. Thank you for your useful tree-attenuation information in your other post. Regards, jack Felix A. Lopez wrote: Mark: The professional RF Planning software is good for large designs. There is also freeware available and I will let the cat out of the bag. http://www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.html Radio Mobile software is a copyright of Roger Coud?VE2DBE. Radio Mobile is dedicated to amateur radio and humanitarian use. Although commercial use is not prohibited, the author cannot be held responsible for its usage. The outputs resulting from the program are under the entire responsibility of the user, and the user should conform to restrictions from external data sources http://www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.html Caveat: Many wireless starters and subject matter experts use the Radio Mobile software as a first glance tool. Because I'm an advocate of the WiFi/WiMax inteface, I would like to think the tool can be used for walking Mobile Radio too. Felix Wireless Practioneer --- Mark McElvy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am putting together a quote for an older motel. They want to provide wireless access for their customers. The build is a big curving L or almost U with a set of rooms in the middle. It is all one story but the rise in elevation as it curves around. The rooms are your typical glass front, open walkway motel with carports in front. The length of the L or U is approx 800ft. with the distance across the points about 4-500 ft. How well will say an AP w/omni setting ontop of the center building cover such a setup? Or do I need to lean toward several Ap's w 90 -120 sectors pointed at different sections of the buildings? Or other ideas I have not considered. This will be my first setup like this. Mark McElvy -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Call to Vendors.....
Blair, No real surprise that all the Wi-Hype folks have not jumped in here. This list is primarily populated by folks who utilize license-free spectrum as opposed to licensed spectrum - well, for point-to-multipoint anyway. More WISPs are using licensed backhauls each day. AFAIK, we have not seen true WIMAX-compliant equipment (as opposed to WIMAX-ready, pre-WIMAX, and other NON-WIMAX equipment that is so often mis-mentioned today as being WIMAX) available for use in license-free spectrum. If you had the use of licensed 2.3 or 3.6 or 2.5 GHz spectrum, you may (note the word MAY) be able to find some WIMAX gear out there. Even then, trees would factor heavily into your network design. Before too long, the 3.6 GHz band will be available but trees will still be an issue. Your best license-free bet (again AFAIK - other people may offer other ideas) is to use 900 MHz. My best to you each morning, jack (former Michigan-ite) Blair Davis wrote: Thanks for all the comments I'm surprised that none of the Wi-Hype...(opps! :) ), I mean Wi-Max people have not jumped in here The 1Mbit speed requirement is a killer. I could likely convince them that 128Kbit/512Kbit would be fine for what they are doing. I'm leaning toward something that is licensed to allow more power to penetrate the trees. Start-up costs are not really an issue here. Another note The base stations will all be at least 200ft AGL. Blair Davis wrote: This is an invitation to Vendors to contact me if they have equipment that could meet my needs... I have been contacted by government unit that wishes to deploy a mobile, high speed data network in their vehicles. The area of operation is tree infested. The mobile units will never be more than 7 miles from a tower with a base station. LoS is NOT assured from the mobile unit to the base. The mobile units must switch base stations as needed with no user intervention. Use of 2.4GHz band is not acceptable. Min data rates are 256Kbit up by 1Mbit down. I'm open to any technology that will work and to any vendor. Licensed or unlicensed gear would be acceptable. Contact me by e-mail or my cell below. Calling late is fine. I'm up late anyway! -- Blair Davis West Michigan Wireless ISP Cell 269-650-5749 -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification for Manufacturers and Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation
Let me chime in here. It will also depend on the equipment you are using. I can state that I have seen many instances of Canopy not working because of trees yet Alvarion will work just fine at 5 GHz. The OFDM has proven to work quite will through trees. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com http://www.wirelessmapping.com -Original Message- From: Mike Hammett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 1:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation Kinds? um...I know coniferous vs. deciduous and a couple different kinds of deciduous, but that's about it... Maple, crab apple, locust, that's about it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: CHUCK PROFITO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 12:13 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation No one talks of the type of trees. We've noticed getting through a line of poplars, adjust antenna size, not much of a problem. But one pine tree, or a well placed ash, near impossible. Maybe the pine needles attenuate more because they are thin and in all directions thus absorbing all reflections ?? Anybody else see this. Chuck Profito 209-988-7388 CV-ACCESS, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] Providing High Speed Broadband to Rural Central California -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 9:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation Could you provide some sort of numbers? How much loss does that 1/4 mile of water-retaining trees have? The town is basically a square with the tower on the far west side in about the center. It is 1/2 mile to the extreme corners, so there are a lot of people 1/4 mile and less. Someone on another list mentioned water retention as a show-stopper, but my limited experience had me thinking just about anything less than a 1/2 mile would work. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Graham McIntire [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation I have two towers running MT APs at 5.8 with CM9s and 16 dBi horiz sectors. Using Osbridge 5GXi's as the CPE, I have clients a few miles out with non-LOS and the occasional treeline without any issues. I also have one house about 3/4 mile away from my tower that's going through nearly 1/4 mile of scattered trees. It attenuates pretty badly during heavy rain until the leaves on the trees dry out, but stays connected. It's my parents-in-law's house, so they're a little more forgiving if it happens to drop than a client would be ;) Half a mile with scattered trees shouldn't be a problem for you, even with snow/rain attenuation. Graham McIntire Verona Networks On 6/22/07, Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a 5 mile link where I'm not quite sure if the antenna is above the trees or not as it is on top of a mast. That link is on the better side of -80 for almost 2 years. Based on that I'd think I'd be okay at a half mile or less. I figured that with most of the town at better than -60 and a lot better than -50, I could stand to go through a few meters of tree, but that's why I came here to ask. ;-) Based on the numbers on the site I looked at, 10 db of attenuation is 27' of foliage. That'd put 20 db at 55' of foliage. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:22 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5 GHz attenuation Mike, Good to go as long as the TV towers allow you to get the CPE antennas above the trees. jack Mike Hammett wrote: Most of my coverage area is open fields, so there isn't much to making a link work. I have an increasing demand to install an AP in a small town (no point within town is further than 1/2 mile away from the tower site). I prefer to use 5 GHz due to the amount of spectrum available. An article I read said 1.5 db per meter of foliage or 20 db per tree in 5 GHz. The grain leg is 100 - 150 feet tall. Many houses have TV towers. Radio Mobile (not counting foliage) says the worst signal I can expect to see is in the 60s with most in the 50s or 40s. Safe to assume that most of the town will be good to go? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral Wireless
RE: [WISPA] Call to Vendors.....
Tow things I suspect...being a paranoid type...that I might be one you are thinking of with that hype comment Blair? If so, I've said nothing re WiMAX because I have nothing to add. I did forward your note to our manager for those parts. On the WiMAX hype thing: A) I've never hyped...I've been very clear about what is hype, what it is not, when it might be coming and when it is not and I have been hugely clear on my belief that WiMAX sucks for unlicensed UNTIL 802.16h gets worked out. B) You should know that the licensed versions of WiMAX -- actual 802.16e versions -- from us ARE shipping in commercial quantities as generally available product. I did not say WiMAX-certified, because the 802.16e WiMAX Forum certs won't begin now until next year, but I am talking about actual 802.16e (not pre stuff) and it will wear the certified label once the process takes place. As well, the older 802.16d versions that do carry WiMAX Forum certified label has been shipping GA since this time in 2004. C) Alvarion has shipped $100 million dollars plus of WiMAX gear (gear that wears the WF-certified and gear that will wear the label), so you might be careful about calling it all hype. Second, our mobile 900 MHz solution is designed for the app you are describing and it is used exactly for this type application in dozens of cities/towns around the country. I am not talking about fixed 900, but rather our system in 900 MHz specifically designed for regional vehicular mobile access. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 11:33 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Call to Vendors. Thanks for all the comments I'm surprised that none of the Wi-Hype...(opps! :) ), I mean Wi-Max people have not jumped in here The 1Mbit speed requirement is a killer. I could likely convince them that 128Kbit/512Kbit would be fine for what they are doing. I'm leaning toward something that is licensed to allow more power to penetrate the trees. Start-up costs are not really an issue here. Another note The base stations will all be at least 200ft AGL. Blair Davis wrote: This is an invitation to Vendors to contact me if they have equipment that could meet my needs... I have been contacted by government unit that wishes to deploy a mobile, high speed data network in their vehicles. The area of operation is tree infested. The mobile units will never be more than 7 miles from a tower with a base station. LoS is NOT assured from the mobile unit to the base. The mobile units must switch base stations as needed with no user intervention. Use of 2.4GHz band is not acceptable. Min data rates are 256Kbit up by 1Mbit down. I'm open to any technology that will work and to any vendor. Licensed or unlicensed gear would be acceptable. Contact me by e-mail or my cell below. Calling late is fine. I'm up late anyway! -- Blair Davis West Michigan Wireless ISP Cell 269-650-5749 -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(190). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(42). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses(84). This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals computer viruses. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga
Charles, That statement, really depends on the price that is relased, and the volume the buyer is considering, as well as their time frame. If someone is planning on dropping 1/4-1/2 million on Licensed gear in a year, and the price is really good, allowing the provider to get 30% more links up for the same dollar, its not much of a risk being the first, considering the future potential reward. If the WISP's timeline is also spread out over the year, they have plenty of time to wait for bug fixes, before the bulk of the deployments. The golden question right now is, what price is Trango going to be at? The prospective buyers are predicting a low cost entry point, just because Trango has Always delivered industry leading price point, to jump start volume adoption in the industry. However, prior to seeing the price released, I'll say Dragon wave has the upper hand, for potentially being able to be the price leader based on their all outdoor design, compared to Trango's half and half indoor/outdoor. I will tell you, the most exciting news of the year for me, is clearly Trango's entry into the Licensed space. I selected them once for their Superior designs, and wouldn't hesitate to do it again, if they follow their own suit with the initial mentality of innovated products, such as the 5830 product line in it's day. With that said... I spoke with Dragon Wave, at the IWPC workshop this week. These guys get it, and is going to be a tough act to follow. The Dragon wave vision is to have a single management platform and infrastructure design for all your needs. Dragon wave is also very highly considering launching an E-band or 60Ghz product to their line, in the near future. Could you imagine that? Thats a product line that could bring WISPs to carrier class. Licensed Backhaul, GB near interference-free last mile. Tom DeReggi Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 9:16 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga The question with Trango always is who wants to be first... (Free beta testers don't count) -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 1:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga Anyone have any experience with Trango's new product? How does it compare to similar products? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.0/852 - Release Date: 6/17/2007 8:23 AM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga
Our Trango rep provided us with a price quote. I didn't speak to the person directly, so I don't know if I am allowed to share or if it was based on a volume commitment. I will say it is in line with what most people are expecting out of Trango price wise. -Matt Tom DeReggi wrote: Charles, That statement, really depends on the price that is relased, and the volume the buyer is considering, as well as their time frame. If someone is planning on dropping 1/4-1/2 million on Licensed gear in a year, and the price is really good, allowing the provider to get 30% more links up for the same dollar, its not much of a risk being the first, considering the future potential reward. If the WISP's timeline is also spread out over the year, they have plenty of time to wait for bug fixes, before the bulk of the deployments. The golden question right now is, what price is Trango going to be at? The prospective buyers are predicting a low cost entry point, just because Trango has Always delivered industry leading price point, to jump start volume adoption in the industry. However, prior to seeing the price released, I'll say Dragon wave has the upper hand, for potentially being able to be the price leader based on their all outdoor design, compared to Trango's half and half indoor/outdoor. I will tell you, the most exciting news of the year for me, is clearly Trango's entry into the Licensed space. I selected them once for their Superior designs, and wouldn't hesitate to do it again, if they follow their own suit with the initial mentality of innovated products, such as the 5830 product line in it's day. With that said... I spoke with Dragon Wave, at the IWPC workshop this week. These guys get it, and is going to be a tough act to follow. The Dragon wave vision is to have a single management platform and infrastructure design for all your needs. Dragon wave is also very highly considering launching an E-band or 60Ghz product to their line, in the near future. Could you imagine that? Thats a product line that could bring WISPs to carrier class. Licensed Backhaul, GB near interference-free last mile. Tom DeReggi Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 9:16 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga The question with Trango always is who wants to be first... (Free beta testers don't count) -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 1:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga Anyone have any experience with Trango's new product? How does it compare to similar products? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Call to Vendors.....
Patrick, I targeted NO individual with my Wi-Hype post I just remember the comments about 30 miles NLoS on 3.6GHz. But I don't remember who all was claiming that. If you have a product that can do what I want, CALL ME! As I said before, I don't care what tech or if it is licensed or unlicensed. It just HAS to work. Again, if you have a product, CALL ME! Patrick Leary wrote: Tow things I suspect...being a paranoid type...that I might be one you are thinking of with that "hype" comment Blair? If so, I've said nothing re WiMAX because I have nothing to add. I did forward your note to our manager for those parts. On the WiMAX hype thing: A) I've never hyped...I've been very clear about what is hype, what it is not, when it might be coming and when it is not and I have been hugely clear on my belief that WiMAX sucks for unlicensed UNTIL 802.16h gets worked out. B) You should know that the licensed versions of WiMAX -- actual 802.16e versions -- from us ARE shipping in commercial quantities as generally available product. I did not say "WiMAX-certified," because the 802.16e WiMAX Forum certs won't begin now until next year, but I am talking about actual 802.16e (not pre stuff) and it will wear the certified label once the process takes place. As well, the older 802.16d versions that do carry WiMAX Forum certified label has been shipping GA since this time in 2004. C) Alvarion has shipped $100 million dollars plus of WiMAX gear (gear that wears the WF-certified and gear that will wear the label), so you might be careful about calling it all hype. Second, our mobile 900 MHz solution is designed for the app you are describing and it is used exactly for this type application in dozens of cities/towns around the country. I am not talking about fixed 900, but rather our system in 900 MHz specifically designed for regional vehicular mobile access. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Blair Davis Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 11:33 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Call to Vendors. Thanks for all the comments I'm surprised that none of the Wi-Hype...(opps! :) ), I mean Wi-Max people have not jumped in here The 1Mbit speed requirement is a killer. I could likely convince them that 128Kbit/512Kbit would be fine for what they are doing. I'm leaning toward something that is licensed to allow more power to penetrate the trees. Start-up costs are not really an issue here. Another note The base stations will all be at least 200ft AGL. Blair Davis wrote: This is an invitation to Vendors to contact me if they have equipment that could meet my needs... I have been contacted by government unit that wishes to deploy a mobile, high speed data network in their vehicles. The area of operation is tree infested. The mobile units will never be more than 7 miles from a tower with a base station. LoS is NOT assured from the mobile unit to the base. The mobile units must switch base stations as needed with no user intervention. Use of 2.4GHz band is not acceptable. Min data rates are 256Kbit up by 1Mbit down. I'm open to any technology that will work and to any vendor. Licensed or unlicensed gear would be acceptable. Contact me by e-mail or my cell below. Calling late is fine. I'm up late anyway! -- Blair Davis West Michigan Wireless ISP Cell 269-650-5749 -- Blair Davis AOL IM Screen Name -- Theory240 West Michigan Wireless ISP 269-686-8648 A division of: Camp Communication Services, INC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wifi @ a Motel
It seems to me that a mesh product would be just the ticket in a motel. Then again I have never done a motel. :) -m- Jack Unger wrote: Felix, With all due respect, the Radio Mobile cat has been out of the bag for many (perhaps 5) years. Thank you for your useful tree-attenuation information in your other post. Regards, jack Felix A. Lopez wrote: Mark: The professional RF Planning software is good for large designs. There is also freeware available and I will let the cat out of the bag. http://www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.html Radio Mobile software is a copyright of Roger Coud?VE2DBE. Radio Mobile is dedicated to amateur radio and humanitarian use. Although commercial use is not prohibited, the author cannot be held responsible for its usage. The outputs resulting from the program are under the entire responsibility of the user, and the user should conform to restrictions from external data sources http://www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.html Caveat: Many wireless starters and subject matter experts use the Radio Mobile software as a first glance tool. Because I'm an advocate of the WiFi/WiMax inteface, I would like to think the tool can be used for walking Mobile Radio too. Felix Wireless Practioneer --- Mark McElvy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am putting together a quote for an older motel. They want to provide wireless access for their customers. The build is a big curving L or almost U with a set of rooms in the middle. It is all one story but the rise in elevation as it curves around. The rooms are your typical glass front, open walkway motel with carports in front. The length of the L or U is approx 800ft. with the distance across the points about 4-500 ft. How well will say an AP w/omni setting ontop of the center building cover such a setup? Or do I need to lean toward several Ap's w 90 -120 sectors pointed at different sections of the buildings? Or other ideas I have not considered. This will be my first setup like this. Mark McElvy -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Pigtails
Without meaning to be disrespectful... Maybe you have a waterproofing method problem? We have not had to replace one Trango pigtail in 7 years. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Kelly Shaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:44 PM Subject: [WISPA] Pigtails We are having a time with our radio pigtails. As some of you may know, the Trango pigtails (RP-SMA) leave a lot to be desired. The small connector at the radio is very hard to water proof and, for us, needs to be replaced yearly on some of our taller towers. Right now, we've had to replace all of our last batch of Hyperlink pigtails. What are you guys using and which manufacturer have you had the best luck with? Kelly Shaw Pure Internet www.pure.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.1/857 - Release Date: 6/20/2007 2:18 PM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Pigtails
We buy our pigtails, made from Shiren, allrfcables.com. Rock solid. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Kelly Shaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:44 PM Subject: [WISPA] Pigtails We are having a time with our radio pigtails. As some of you may know, the Trango pigtails (RP-SMA) leave a lot to be desired. The small connector at the radio is very hard to water proof and, for us, needs to be replaced yearly on some of our taller towers. Right now, we've had to replace all of our last batch of Hyperlink pigtails. What are you guys using and which manufacturer have you had the best luck with? Kelly Shaw Pure Internet www.pure.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.1/857 - Release Date: 6/20/2007 2:18 PM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Adelstein backs Open Access 700
Open access never will come close to replacing, a carrier's ability to share the spectrum with their own gear or own their spectrum. I don't want to support anything that gives a fake sense of security for competition. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Michael Erskine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 10:00 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Adelstein backs Open Access 700 Sorry, lost my thought. First Verison was told to sell the retailer DSL at a resonable cost. Then they kissed up to the FCC and suddenly they were selling wholesale DSL to the retailers at $23.50 while they were advertising the retailer's customers $14.95. Sweet deal for Vz. Then we got the bill... Yeah, if you signed the contract, you know about that bill. It was retroactive. Gee, you don't have xxx customers? Well, you signed for that many. Guess we have to charge you *rectroactively* for the xxx customers you do have. Yeah, I told the boss the day he signed that contract, This is a fish hook. Eat this and they will kill you. He got a bill from Verizon for $45,000.00 because he did not whole sale enough customers at $9.00 per month more than the ONLY OTHER PLAYER IN HIS MARKET... Verizon. Did we complain? Yeah, we did. We took it to the top in Verizon. We were told, Even the FCC can't do anything about it. Verizon was right. They bought the FCC and nobody complained. Fancy that. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.1/857 - Release Date: 6/20/2007 2:18 PM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga
Matt Liotta wrote: I will say it is in line with what most people are expecting out of Trango price wise. -Matt And that price is? :) George -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Pigtails
That may or may not be true, but who makes your pigtails? Or, are they home made? Kelly -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 5:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Pigtails Without meaning to be disrespectful... Maybe you have a waterproofing method problem? We have not had to replace one Trango pigtail in 7 years. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Kelly Shaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:44 PM Subject: [WISPA] Pigtails We are having a time with our radio pigtails. As some of you may know, the Trango pigtails (RP-SMA) leave a lot to be desired. The small connector at the radio is very hard to water proof and, for us, needs to be replaced yearly on some of our taller towers. Right now, we've had to replace all of our last batch of Hyperlink pigtails. What are you guys using and which manufacturer have you had the best luck with? Kelly Shaw Pure Internet www.pure.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.1/857 - Release Date: 6/20/2007 2:18 PM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ __ NOD32 2346 (20070622) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Pigtails
We have had MANY pigtail failures... mostly from Hyperlink cables. Ends coming off while hand-tightening, center pins falling out, cables failing after a year, etc. Travis Microserv Tom DeReggi wrote: Without meaning to be disrespectful... Maybe you have a waterproofing method problem? We have not had to replace one Trango pigtail in 7 years. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Kelly Shaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:44 PM Subject: [WISPA] Pigtails We are having a time with our radio pigtails. As some of you may know, the Trango pigtails (RP-SMA) leave a lot to be desired. The small connector at the radio is very hard to water proof and, for us, needs to be replaced yearly on some of our taller towers. Right now, we've had to replace all of our last batch of Hyperlink pigtails. What are you guys using and which manufacturer have you had the best luck with? Kelly Shaw Pure Internet www.pure.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.1/857 - Release Date: 6/20/2007 2:18 PM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga
Honestly I was a little disappointed with the pricing... I thought it would be more aggressive from the newest player on the block. For the 100Mbps full-duplex version, it was only about 25% less than a similar Dragonwave setup. I guess I was hoping for more like 50% less. :) Travis Microserv Matt Liotta wrote: Our Trango rep provided us with a price quote. I didn't speak to the person directly, so I don't know if I am allowed to share or if it was based on a volume commitment. I will say it is in line with what most people are expecting out of Trango price wise. -Matt Tom DeReggi wrote: Charles, That statement, really depends on the price that is relased, and the volume the buyer is considering, as well as their time frame. If someone is planning on dropping 1/4-1/2 million on Licensed gear in a year, and the price is really good, allowing the provider to get 30% more links up for the same dollar, its not much of a risk being the first, considering the future potential reward. If the WISP's timeline is also spread out over the year, they have plenty of time to wait for bug fixes, before the bulk of the deployments. The golden question right now is, what price is Trango going to be at? The prospective buyers are predicting a low cost entry point, just because Trango has Always delivered industry leading price point, to jump start volume adoption in the industry. However, prior to seeing the price released, I'll say Dragon wave has the upper hand, for potentially being able to be the price leader based on their all outdoor design, compared to Trango's half and half indoor/outdoor. I will tell you, the most exciting news of the year for me, is clearly Trango's entry into the Licensed space. I selected them once for their Superior designs, and wouldn't hesitate to do it again, if they follow their own suit with the initial mentality of innovated products, such as the 5830 product line in it's day. With that said... I spoke with Dragon Wave, at the IWPC workshop this week. These guys get it, and is going to be a tough act to follow. The Dragon wave vision is to have a single management platform and infrastructure design for all your needs. Dragon wave is also very highly considering launching an E-band or 60Ghz product to their line, in the near future. Could you imagine that? Thats a product line that could bring WISPs to carrier class. Licensed Backhaul, GB near interference-free last mile. Tom DeReggi Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 9:16 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga The question with Trango always is who wants to be first... (Free beta testers don't count) -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 1:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga Anyone have any experience with Trango's new product? How does it compare to similar products? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga
That's the new dragonwave horizon pricing? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 6:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga Honestly I was a little disappointed with the pricing... I thought it would be more aggressive from the newest player on the block. For the 100Mbps full-duplex version, it was only about 25% less than a similar Dragonwave setup. I guess I was hoping for more like 50% less. :) Travis Microserv Matt Liotta wrote: Our Trango rep provided us with a price quote. I didn't speak to the person directly, so I don't know if I am allowed to share or if it was based on a volume commitment. I will say it is in line with what most people are expecting out of Trango price wise. -Matt Tom DeReggi wrote: Charles, That statement, really depends on the price that is relased, and the volume the buyer is considering, as well as their time frame. If someone is planning on dropping 1/4-1/2 million on Licensed gear in a year, and the price is really good, allowing the provider to get 30% more links up for the same dollar, its not much of a risk being the first, considering the future potential reward. If the WISP's timeline is also spread out over the year, they have plenty of time to wait for bug fixes, before the bulk of the deployments. The golden question right now is, what price is Trango going to be at? The prospective buyers are predicting a low cost entry point, just because Trango has Always delivered industry leading price point, to jump start volume adoption in the industry. However, prior to seeing the price released, I'll say Dragon wave has the upper hand, for potentially being able to be the price leader based on their all outdoor design, compared to Trango's half and half indoor/outdoor. I will tell you, the most exciting news of the year for me, is clearly Trango's entry into the Licensed space. I selected them once for their Superior designs, and wouldn't hesitate to do it again, if they follow their own suit with the initial mentality of innovated products, such as the 5830 product line in it's day. With that said... I spoke with Dragon Wave, at the IWPC workshop this week. These guys get it, and is going to be a tough act to follow. The Dragon wave vision is to have a single management platform and infrastructure design for all your needs. Dragon wave is also very highly considering launching an E-band or 60Ghz product to their line, in the near future. Could you imagine that? Thats a product line that could bring WISPs to carrier class. Licensed Backhaul, GB near interference-free last mile. Tom DeReggi Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 9:16 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga The question with Trango always is who wants to be first... (Free beta testers don't count) -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 1:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga Anyone have any experience with Trango's new product? How does it compare to similar products? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga
No... this was for their IDU/ODU fixed 100Mbps unit from both Trango and Dragonwave. Travis Microserv Gino Villarini wrote: That's the new dragonwave horizon pricing? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 6:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga Honestly I was a little disappointed with the pricing... I thought it would be more aggressive from the newest player on the block. For the 100Mbps full-duplex version, it was only about 25% less than a similar Dragonwave setup. I guess I was hoping for more like 50% less. :) Travis Microserv Matt Liotta wrote: Our Trango rep provided us with a price quote. I didn't speak to the person directly, so I don't know if I am allowed to share or if it was based on a volume commitment. I will say it is in line with what most people are expecting out of Trango price wise. -Matt Tom DeReggi wrote: Charles, That statement, really depends on the price that is relased, and the volume the buyer is considering, as well as their time frame. If someone is planning on dropping 1/4-1/2 million on Licensed gear in a year, and the price is really good, allowing the provider to get 30% more links up for the same dollar, its not much of a risk being the first, considering the future potential reward. If the WISP's timeline is also spread out over the year, they have plenty of time to wait for bug fixes, before the bulk of the deployments. The golden question right now is, what price is Trango going to be at? The prospective buyers are predicting a low cost entry point, just because Trango has Always delivered industry leading price point, to jump start volume adoption in the industry. However, prior to seeing the price released, I'll say Dragon wave has the upper hand, for potentially being able to be the price leader based on their all outdoor design, compared to Trango's half and half indoor/outdoor. I will tell you, the most exciting news of the year for me, is clearly Trango's entry into the Licensed space. I selected them once for their Superior designs, and wouldn't hesitate to do it again, if they follow their own suit with the initial mentality of innovated products, such as the 5830 product line in it's day. With that said... I spoke with Dragon Wave, at the IWPC workshop this week. These guys get it, and is going to be a tough act to follow. The Dragon wave vision is to have a single management platform and infrastructure design for all your needs. Dragon wave is also very highly considering launching an E-band or 60Ghz product to their line, in the near future. Could you imagine that? Thats a product line that could bring WISPs to carrier class. Licensed Backhaul, GB near interference-free last mile. Tom DeReggi Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Charles Wu" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 9:16 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga The question with Trango always is who wants to be first... (Free beta testers don't count) -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 1:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga Anyone have any experience with Trango's new product? How does it compare to similar products? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga
So basically the Horizon would be the same or less and its poe Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 7:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga No... this was for their IDU/ODU fixed 100Mbps unit from both Trango and Dragonwave. Travis Microserv Gino Villarini wrote: That's the new dragonwave horizon pricing? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 6:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga Honestly I was a little disappointed with the pricing... I thought it would be more aggressive from the newest player on the block. For the 100Mbps full-duplex version, it was only about 25% less than a similar Dragonwave setup. I guess I was hoping for more like 50% less. :) Travis Microserv Matt Liotta wrote: Our Trango rep provided us with a price quote. I didn't speak to the person directly, so I don't know if I am allowed to share or if it was based on a volume commitment. I will say it is in line with what most people are expecting out of Trango price wise. -Matt Tom DeReggi wrote: Charles, That statement, really depends on the price that is relased, and the volume the buyer is considering, as well as their time frame. If someone is planning on dropping 1/4-1/2 million on Licensed gear in a year, and the price is really good, allowing the provider to get 30% more links up for the same dollar, its not much of a risk being the first, considering the future potential reward. If the WISP's timeline is also spread out over the year, they have plenty of time to wait for bug fixes, before the bulk of the deployments. The golden question right now is, what price is Trango going to be at? The prospective buyers are predicting a low cost entry point, just because Trango has Always delivered industry leading price point, to jump start volume adoption in the industry. However, prior to seeing the price released, I'll say Dragon wave has the upper hand, for potentially being able to be the price leader based on their all outdoor design, compared to Trango's half and half indoor/outdoor. I will tell you, the most exciting news of the year for me, is clearly Trango's entry into the Licensed space. I selected them once for their Superior designs, and wouldn't hesitate to do it again, if they follow their own suit with the initial mentality of innovated products, such as the 5830 product line in it's day. With that said... I spoke with Dragon Wave, at the IWPC workshop this week. These guys get it, and is going to be a tough act to follow. The Dragon wave vision is to have a single management platform and infrastructure design for all your needs. Dragon wave is also very highly considering launching an E-band or 60Ghz product to their line, in the near future. Could you imagine that? Thats a product line that could bring WISPs to carrier class. Licensed Backhaul, GB near interference-free last mile. Tom DeReggi Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 9:16 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga The question with Trango always is who wants to be first... (Free beta testers don't count) -Charles
Re: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga
Not sure... but Dragonwave's PoE is not standard PoE... you have to purchase their expensive, proprietary cables with the radios... so if you are running a new cable, why not just run LMR400 and not ever have to worry about it again? Travis Microserv Gino Villarini wrote: So basically the Horizon would be the same or less and its poe Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 7:01 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga No... this was for their IDU/ODU fixed 100Mbps unit from both Trango and Dragonwave. Travis Microserv Gino Villarini wrote: That's the new dragonwave horizon pricing? Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 6:34 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga Honestly I was a little disappointed with the pricing... I thought it would be more aggressive from the newest player on the block. For the 100Mbps full-duplex version, it was only about 25% less than a similar Dragonwave setup. I guess I was hoping for more like 50% less. :) Travis Microserv Matt Liotta wrote: Our Trango rep provided us with a price quote. I didn't speak to the person directly, so I don't know if I am allowed to share or if it was based on a volume commitment. I will say it is in line with what most people are expecting out of Trango price wise. -Matt Tom DeReggi wrote: Charles, That statement, really depends on the price that is relased, and the volume the buyer is considering, as well as their time frame. If someone is planning on dropping 1/4-1/2 million on Licensed gear in a year, and the price is really good, allowing the provider to get 30% more links up for the same dollar, its not much of a risk being the first, considering the future potential reward. If the WISP's timeline is also spread out over the year, they have plenty of time to wait for bug fixes, before the bulk of the deployments. The golden question right now is, what price is Trango going to be at? The prospective buyers are predicting a low cost entry point, just because Trango has Always delivered industry leading price point, to jump start volume adoption in the industry. However, prior to seeing the price released, I'll say Dragon wave has the upper hand, for potentially being able to be the price leader based on their all outdoor design, compared to Trango's half and half indoor/outdoor. I will tell you, the most exciting news of the year for me, is clearly Trango's entry into the Licensed space. I selected them once for their Superior designs, and wouldn't hesitate to do it again, if they follow their own suit with the initial mentality of innovated products, such as the 5830 product line in it's day. With that said... I spoke with Dragon Wave, at the IWPC workshop this week. These guys get it, and is going to be a tough act to follow. The Dragon wave vision is to have a single management platform and infrastructure design for all your needs. Dragon wave is also very highly considering launching an E-band or 60Ghz product to their line, in the near future. Could you imagine that? Thats a product line that could bring WISPs to carrier class. Licensed Backhaul, GB near interference-free last mile. Tom DeReggi Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 9:16 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga The question with Trango always is who wants to be first... (Free beta testers don't count) -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Liotta Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 1:43 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] TrangoLINK Giga Anyone have any experience with Trango's new product?
RE: [WISPA] Wifi @ a Motel
I was kinda thinking a mesh product also, any brand recommendations? I kinda looked over Tranzeo. Mark McElvy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael J. Erskine Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 4:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wifi @ a Motel It seems to me that a mesh product would be just the ticket in a motel. Then again I have never done a motel. :) -m- Jack Unger wrote: Felix, With all due respect, the Radio Mobile cat has been out of the bag for many (perhaps 5) years. Thank you for your useful tree-attenuation information in your other post. Regards, jack Felix A. Lopez wrote: Mark: The professional RF Planning software is good for large designs. There is also freeware available and I will let the cat out of the bag. http://www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.html Radio Mobile software is a copyright of Roger Coud?VE2DBE. Radio Mobile is dedicated to amateur radio and humanitarian use. Although commercial use is not prohibited, the author cannot be held responsible for its usage. The outputs resulting from the program are under the entire responsibility of the user, and the user should conform to restrictions from external data sources http://www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.html Caveat: Many wireless starters and subject matter experts use the Radio Mobile software as a first glance tool. Because I'm an advocate of the WiFi/WiMax inteface, I would like to think the tool can be used for walking Mobile Radio too. Felix Wireless Practioneer --- Mark McElvy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am putting together a quote for an older motel. They want to provide wireless access for their customers. The build is a big curving L or almost U with a set of rooms in the middle. It is all one story but the rise in elevation as it curves around. The rooms are your typical glass front, open walkway motel with carports in front. The length of the L or U is approx 800ft. with the distance across the points about 4-500 ft. How well will say an AP w/omni setting ontop of the center building cover such a setup? Or do I need to lean toward several Ap's w 90 -120 sectors pointed at different sections of the buildings? Or other ideas I have not considered. This will be my first setup like this. Mark McElvy -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Wifi @ a Motel
I use RM for my first look at my regular customer links. I would not have thought to use it in such a situation. Mark McElvy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Felix A. Lopez Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 1:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wifi @ a Motel Mark: The professional RF Planning software is good for large designs. There is also freeware available and I will let the cat out of the bag. http://www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.html Radio Mobile software is a copyright of Roger Coud?VE2DBE. Radio Mobile is dedicated to amateur radio and humanitarian use. Although commercial use is not prohibited, the author cannot be held responsible for its usage. The outputs resulting from the program are under the entire responsibility of the user, and the user should conform to restrictions from external data sources http://www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.html Caveat: Many wireless starters and subject matter experts use the Radio Mobile software as a first glance tool. Because I'm an advocate of the WiFi/WiMax inteface, I would like to think the tool can be used for walking Mobile Radio too. Felix Wireless Practioneer --- Mark McElvy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am putting together a quote for an older motel. They want to provide wireless access for their customers. The build is a big curving L or almost U with a set of rooms in the middle. It is all one story but the rise in elevation as it curves around. The rooms are your typical glass front, open walkway motel with carports in front. The length of the L or U is approx 800ft. with the distance across the points about 4-500 ft. How well will say an AP w/omni setting ontop of the center building cover such a setup? Or do I need to lean toward several Ap's w 90 -120 sectors pointed at different sections of the buildings? Or other ideas I have not considered. This will be my first setup like this. Mark McElvy -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wifi @ a Motel
http://www.meraki.com Modeling indicates that this little high density design is probably just the ticket for you application. Michael Erskine Kaballero.Com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Wifi @ a Motel
Mark,. Because you asked specifically: We used the Motorola Canopy, Motorola Orthogon, and Moto Mesh products. I worked with my WiSP parnter listed below. WE installed a combination mesh neetwork and fixed wireless system including utility metering. I had them to go through mesh trainnig, and get the latest in RF Wireless Planning software. THe WSIP is NorCal Broadband at http://www.ncbb.net/ Please call Kerry Smith CTO or Bob McMahon CEO at 800.577.6630 and tell them I said hello. I enjoy working with WISP operators. The system was integrated with Cisco backend. WE worked closely with Cisco administrators to provision the gear and engineer in the right security protocol. Felix Wireless Practioneer (and here to help) --- Mark McElvy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was kinda thinking a mesh product also, any brand recommendations? I kinda looked over Tranzeo. Mark McElvy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael J. Erskine Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 4:21 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wifi @ a Motel It seems to me that a mesh product would be just the ticket in a motel. Then again I have never done a motel. :) -m- Jack Unger wrote: Felix, With all due respect, the Radio Mobile cat has been out of the bag for many (perhaps 5) years. Thank you for your useful tree-attenuation information in your other post. Regards, jack Felix A. Lopez wrote: Mark: The professional RF Planning software is good for large designs. There is also freeware available and I will let the cat out of the bag. http://www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.html Radio Mobile software is a copyright of Roger Coud?VE2DBE. Radio Mobile is dedicated to amateur radio and humanitarian use. Although commercial use is not prohibited, the author cannot be held responsible for its usage. The outputs resulting from the program are under the entire responsibility of the user, and the user should conform to restrictions from external data sources http://www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.html Caveat: Many wireless starters and subject matter experts use the Radio Mobile software as a first glance tool. Because I'm an advocate of the WiFi/WiMax inteface, I would like to think the tool can be used for walking Mobile Radio too. Felix Wireless Practioneer --- Mark McElvy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am putting together a quote for an older motel. They want to provide wireless access for their customers. The build is a big curving L or almost U with a set of rooms in the middle. It is all one story but the rise in elevation as it curves around. The rooms are your typical glass front, open walkway motel with carports in front. The length of the L or U is approx 800ft. with the distance across the points about 4-500 ft. How well will say an AP w/omni setting ontop of the center building cover such a setup? Or do I need to lean toward several Ap's w 90 -120 sectors pointed at different sections of the buildings? Or other ideas I have not considered. This will be my first setup like this. Mark McElvy -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/265 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] ISP's Required to Block Sites
Alan Cain wrote: Michael Erskine wrote: It seems that we are all quite busy, John. I want to comment and agree with your sentiment if I may. This list is a *professional* list. People's politics are irrelevant and people who can not separate politics from their profession are immature socially. Just tongue in cheek. Of course this is a *professional* list. Terribly sorry. I'll just go over by the door. LOL. Alan, if there is anyone on this list who is less than professional it would be me. I'll join you near the door. :) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
