Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid broadband stimulus.

[Brad Belton]

I agree with Rick, Chuck and Travis thus far.  Nothing is "free" and
unfortunately the cancer our government has spawned is spreading into our
industry right along with autos, banks, health care, etc, etc.  That is
clearly why this is on topic.

Government doesn't create anything much less create jobs.  The American
entrepreneur is who creates jobs...

Best,


Brad


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:34 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid broadband
stimulus.

The topic says "FCC plans to turn over private data to aid broadband
stimulus." not "wireless" :)
Call it political or whatever, the comments are on topic.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Jack Unger  wrote:

>  Boy I'm sure glad that this discussion is staying on the topic of
wireless
> otherwise 100 people would need to jump in right about here and start
> explaining their political positions  :-[
>
> Chuck Profito wrote:
>
> This is very interesting, they bailed out GM with our $$ and gave the
> biggest % to the union that had the least % at risk and/or invested. Now
> they are throwing our Mgrs left and right and telling them what to pay.
Even
> the union is ticked.
> They made some banks take the funds along with derivatives and toxic
assets,
> but never changed the rules for loaning money back to the way it was. So
no
> loans still...now the banks are giving the $$ back because of the
intrusive
> nature of the lien holder telling them who can be paid what and many other
> internal things. A banker friend of mine said "It's like a eighth grader
> coming in telling us how to run our bank, no life experience, no job
> experience, no work ethic, no ethics discernable, but he's read the book."
> So these gov types, with NO business experience, especially in your
> business, are going to lay out the hoops on the quicksand for you to jump
in
> and out of? Good luck to those of you that are becoming part of this, I do
> hope I'm wrong for your families sake. Too, too many hooks for me.
> Chuck
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:39 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid broadband
> stimulus.
>
> What a web we weave! It all goes back to the money. If they didnt offer
the
> money, they wouldnt need the information. Doesnt anyone care about big
> government? Since when is it their job to determine where service should
or
> should not be? What will you do when they own you?
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 1:59 AM, Chuck Bartosch
wrote:
>
>
>
>  Knew it would happen? Isn't that kind of what the data is FOR in the
first
> place? To determine where there's service and where there isn't...and they
> don't want to be funding applications where there's already sufficient
> documented service. Seems to me it's exactly the right thing to do.
>
> Chuck
>
> On Dec 2, 2009, at 11:29 PM, RickG wrote:
>
>
>
>  I knew this would happen. And thats only what they admit to.
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Scottie Arnett 

>
>  wrote:
>
>
>  <
>
>
>
>
http://blog.telephonyonline.com/unfiltered/2009/12/01/fcc-plans-to-turn-over
> -private-data-to-aid-broadband-stimulus/
>
>
>   Scottie
>
> Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as
> $30.00/mth.
> Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> 
>
>
>   WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
>

> 
>
>
>   WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>

> 
>
>
>  WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>

> 
>
>
>  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>  --
> Chuck Bartosch
> Clarity Connect, Inc.
> 200 Pleasant Grove Road
> Ithaca, NY 14850
> (607) 257-8268
>
> "When the stars threw down their spears,
> and water'd heaven with their tears,
> Did He smile, His work to see?
> Did He who made the Lamb make thee?"
>
> >From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> 
>
>
>  WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
>

> 
>
>
>  

Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid broadband stimulus.

[RickG]

The topic says "FCC plans to turn over private data to aid broadband
stimulus." not "wireless" :)
Call it political or whatever, the comments are on topic.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Jack Unger  wrote:

>  Boy I'm sure glad that this discussion is staying on the topic of wireless
> otherwise 100 people would need to jump in right about here and start
> explaining their political positions  :-[
>
> Chuck Profito wrote:
>
> This is very interesting, they bailed out GM with our $$ and gave the
> biggest % to the union that had the least % at risk and/or invested. Now
> they are throwing our Mgrs left and right and telling them what to pay. Even
> the union is ticked.
> They made some banks take the funds along with derivatives and toxic assets,
> but never changed the rules for loaning money back to the way it was. So no
> loans still...now the banks are giving the $$ back because of the intrusive
> nature of the lien holder telling them who can be paid what and many other
> internal things. A banker friend of mine said "It's like a eighth grader
> coming in telling us how to run our bank, no life experience, no job
> experience, no work ethic, no ethics discernable, but he's read the book."
> So these gov types, with NO business experience, especially in your
> business, are going to lay out the hoops on the quicksand for you to jump in
> and out of? Good luck to those of you that are becoming part of this, I do
> hope I'm wrong for your families sake. Too, too many hooks for me.
> Chuck
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
> ] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:39 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid broadband
> stimulus.
>
> What a web we weave! It all goes back to the money. If they didnt offer the
> money, they wouldnt need the information. Doesnt anyone care about big
> government? Since when is it their job to determine where service should or
> should not be? What will you do when they own you?
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 1:59 AM, Chuck Bartosch 
> wrote:
>
>
>
>  Knew it would happen? Isn't that kind of what the data is FOR in the first
> place? To determine where there's service and where there isn't...and they
> don't want to be funding applications where there's already sufficient
> documented service. Seems to me it's exactly the right thing to do.
>
> Chuck
>
> On Dec 2, 2009, at 11:29 PM, RickG wrote:
>
>
>
>  I knew this would happen. And thats only what they admit to.
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Scottie Arnett  
> 
>
>  wrote:
>
>
>  <
>
>
>
>   http://blog.telephonyonline.com/unfiltered/2009/12/01/fcc-plans-to-turn-over
> -private-data-to-aid-broadband-stimulus/
>
>
>   Scottie
>
> Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as
> $30.00/mth.
> Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   
> 
>
>
>   WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
>   
> 
> 
>
>
>   WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> 
> 
> 
>
>
>  WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
> 
> 
>
>
>  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>  --
> Chuck Bartosch
> Clarity Connect, Inc.
> 200 Pleasant Grove Road
> Ithaca, NY 14850
> (607) 257-8268
>
> "When the stars threw down their spears,
> and water'd heaven with their tears,
> Did He smile, His work to see?
> Did He who made the Lamb make thee?"
>
> >From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
> 
>
>
>  WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
>  
> 
> 
>
>
>  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>  
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/piperma

Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

[Robert West]

I'm not sure now.  We have probably been misled about that as well.  It's
getting to be where a conspiracy theorist just can't trust anyone.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 11:03 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

And lead is for protect against cyptonite :)

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:41 AM, MDK  wrote:

> Aluminum is moderately effective at attenuating microwave rf.
>
> Steel is needed to dampen EMP (from lightning strikes).
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>
> > Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case?  Do you normally use
> > steel if not?
> >
> > I use these:
> > http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp=
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> > --- Albert Einstein
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I've given up on this.  There is just too much cross talk.  I put all
> >> radios
> >> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays.  I try to keep
> >> them
> >> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too.  Life is much much nicer.
> >> marlon
> >>
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From: "Mike" 
> >> To: "WISPA General List" 
> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM
> >> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
> >>
> >>
> >> > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my
> >> > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject.
> >> >
> >> > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea.  I do
> >> > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been
> >> > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case.
> >> >
> >> > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to
> >> > create a sort of Faraday shield?  I know the XRx cards do a good job
> >> > of shielding if you attach the pigtail.
> >> >
> >> > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards?  Has that been an
> >> > issue?  I think the XR cards have better specs.  Wouldn't having
> >> > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too?
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
> >> >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the
> >> >>box,
> >> >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in
> >> >>their
> >> >>own
> >> >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's
to
> >> >>a
> >> >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away.
> >>  That's
> >> >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically.  Was an idea from
someone
> >> >>a
> >> >>couple of months ago.  (I actually listen to you guys)  Had a 600a
> >> >>doing
> >> >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking.
> >> >>
> >> >>Bob-
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>-Original Message-
> >> >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> >> >>Behalf Of Mike
> >> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM
> >> >>To: WISPA General List
> >> >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors
> >> >>
> >> >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same
> >> >>spectrum in the same box?  I've thought about that but wondered if
> >> >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes
> >> >>another one listening.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
> >> >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall.  We aren't lucky enough to
> >> push
> >> >> >3
> >> >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your
> >> >> >customer
> >> >>base.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it
> into
> >> >> >2
> >> >> >180
> >> >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few
> more
> >> >> >customers.  You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you
> >> just
> >> >> >do
> >> >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you
> to
> >> >> >where
> >> >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for
> >> >> >more
> >> >> >growth.  I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one
per
> >> >>sector.
> >> >> >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I
> >> only
> >> >> >dole out 1mb per sub typically.  I've also been upgrading some of
my
> >> >> >remote
> >> >> >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni.  The
> >> >> >anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio
card
> >> >> >as
> >> >> >needed to the point where I have 3 sectors.  Keeping th

Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid broadband stimulus.

[Jack Unger]

Boy I'm sure glad that this discussion is staying on the topic of
wireless otherwise 100 people would need to jump in right about here
and start explaining their political positions   :-[ 

Chuck Profito wrote:

  This is very interesting, they bailed out GM with our $$ and gave the
biggest % to the union that had the least % at risk and/or invested. Now
they are throwing our Mgrs left and right and telling them what to pay. Even
the union is ticked.
They made some banks take the funds along with derivatives and toxic assets,
but never changed the rules for loaning money back to the way it was. So no
loans still...now the banks are giving the $$ back because of the intrusive
nature of the lien holder telling them who can be paid what and many other
internal things. A banker friend of mine said "It's like a eighth grader
coming in telling us how to run our bank, no life experience, no job
experience, no work ethic, no ethics discernable, but he's read the book."
So these gov types, with NO business experience, especially in your
business, are going to lay out the hoops on the quicksand for you to jump in
and out of? Good luck to those of you that are becoming part of this, I do
hope I'm wrong for your families sake. Too, too many hooks for me. 
Chuck

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:39 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid broadband
stimulus.

What a web we weave! It all goes back to the money. If they didnt offer the
money, they wouldnt need the information. Doesnt anyone care about big
government? Since when is it their job to determine where service should or
should not be? What will you do when they own you?

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 1:59 AM, Chuck Bartosch
wrote:

  
  
Knew it would happen? Isn't that kind of what the data is FOR in the first
place? To determine where there's service and where there isn't...and they
don't want to be funding applications where there's already sufficient
documented service. Seems to me it's exactly the right thing to do.

Chuck

On Dec 2, 2009, at 11:29 PM, RickG wrote:



  I knew this would happen. And thats only what they admit to.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Scottie Arnett 
  

wrote:


  

<


  

  
  http://blog.telephonyonline.com/unfiltered/2009/12/01/fcc-plans-to-turn-over
-private-data-to-aid-broadband-stimulus/
  
  

  
Scottie

Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as
$30.00/mth.
Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information.





  

  
  

  
  

  
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--
Chuck Bartosch
Clarity Connect, Inc.
200 Pleasant Grove Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
(607) 257-8268

"When the stars threw down their spears,
and water'd heaven with their tears,
Did He smile, His work to see?
Did He who made the Lamb make thee?"

>From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger!








  
  

  
  
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--

Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid broadband stimulus.

[RickG]

"They" is the government. And "they" are the reason for the high jobless
rate in the first place. "they need to get out of the way and this country
will be a much better place. Read our Founding Fathers papers. Mark sent out
a post a few weeks ago that was spot on. Since this is not the place for
this discussion, we'll have to agree to disagree.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:57 PM, St. Louis Broadband  wrote:

> Who is 'they', the government?  Or the folks that need the jobs?
> Tomorrow they are going to release the nation's jobless rate, prepare for a
> new low.
> Yes, you are correct it is all about the money.
> But there are many ways to look at the broadband stimulus, I guess.
>
> However as far as FCC form 477, there is only one way to look at that.
> The data was gathered to show where the haves and have not's are and is
> being used for that purpose.
>
> Frankly, I applaud the NTIA for taking the imitative.
>
>
>
> V
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 9:39 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid broadband
> stimulus.
>
> What a web we weave! It all goes back to the money. If they didnt offer the
> money, they wouldnt need the information. Doesnt anyone care about big
> government? Since when is it their job to determine where service should or
> should not be? What will you do when they own you?
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 1:59 AM, Chuck Bartosch
> wrote:
>
> > Knew it would happen? Isn't that kind of what the data is FOR in the
> first
> > place? To determine where there's service and where there isn't...and
> they
> > don't want to be funding applications where there's already sufficient
> > documented service. Seems to me it's exactly the right thing to do.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> > On Dec 2, 2009, at 11:29 PM, RickG wrote:
> >
> > > I knew this would happen. And thats only what they admit to.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Scottie Arnett 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> <
> > >>
> >
>
> http://blog.telephonyonline.com/unfiltered/2009/12/01/fcc-plans-to-turn-over
> -private-data-to-aid-broadband-stimulus/
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Scottie
> > >>
> > >> Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as
> > >> $30.00/mth.
> > >> Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
> 
> 
> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
> 
> 
> > >>
> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >>
> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> 
> 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> >
>
> 
> 
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> > --
> > Chuck Bartosch
> > Clarity Connect, Inc.
> > 200 Pleasant Grove Road
> > Ithaca, NY 14850
> > (607) 257-8268
> >
> > "When the stars threw down their spears,
> > and water'd heaven with their tears,
> > Did He smile, His work to see?
> > Did He who made the Lamb make thee?"
> >
> > >From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
>
> 
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> -

Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

[Dennis Burgess]

Might find some more options here as well.
http://store.jeffcosoho.com/category_s/60.htm

---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member
Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
Author of "Learn RouterOS" 


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of ccrum
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 3:20 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

The link to the enclosures from belowreposted here:

http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp=

although I buy mine at another location. Those have not leaked, but I've
seen plenty of water in my PAC DCE enclosures. Here is a nice pic of one
on a particularly cold day last year.

http://www.dot11net.com/pics/dce_water.html

Cameron



Josh Luthman wrote:
> What are "these"?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> --- Albert Einstein
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 2:51 PM, ccrum  wrote:
>
>   
>> We use these for anything larger than a 532. We've had great success
>> with them over the last couple years. Not one has leaked as far as I
know.
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> 
>>> Those look like they have a lot of junk sticking out where you'd
need to
>>> weather proof connectors.
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Josh Luthman" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case?  Do you
normally use
 steel if not?

 I use these:
 http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp=

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
 --- Albert Einstein


 On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer
 wrote:


 
> I've given up on this.  There is just too much cross talk.  I put
all
> radios
> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays.  I try to
keep
> them
> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too.  Life is much much nicer.
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mike" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>
>
>
>   
>> Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for
my
>> messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject.
>>
>> I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea.  I
do
>> have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have
been
>> afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case.
>>
>> The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it
to
>> create a sort of Faraday shield?  I know the XRx cards do a good
job
>> of shielding if you attach the pigtail.
>>
>> How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards?  Has that
been an
>> issue?  I think the XR cards have better specs.  Wouldn't having
>> multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues
too?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside
the
>>> box,
>>> the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards
in
>>> their
>>> own
>>> box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the
411's
>>>   
>> to
>> 
>>> a
>>> central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally
away.
>>>
>>>   
>  That's
>
>   
>>> one that I'm doing just to do it, basically.  Was an idea from
>>>   
>> someone
>> 
>>> a
>>> couple of months ago.  (I actually listen to you guys)  Had a
600a
>>> doing
>>> nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking.
>>>
>>> Bob-
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>>   
>> On
>> 
>>> Behalf Of Mike
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors
>>>
>>> Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same
>>> spectrum in the same box?  I've thought about that but wondered
if
>>

Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

[RickG]

And lead is for protect against cyptonite :)

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:41 AM, MDK  wrote:

> Aluminum is moderately effective at attenuating microwave rf.
>
> Steel is needed to dampen EMP (from lightning strikes).
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>
> > Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case?  Do you normally use
> > steel if not?
> >
> > I use these:
> > http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp=
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> > --- Albert Einstein
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I've given up on this.  There is just too much cross talk.  I put all
> >> radios
> >> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays.  I try to keep
> >> them
> >> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too.  Life is much much nicer.
> >> marlon
> >>
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From: "Mike" 
> >> To: "WISPA General List" 
> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM
> >> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
> >>
> >>
> >> > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my
> >> > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject.
> >> >
> >> > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea.  I do
> >> > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been
> >> > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case.
> >> >
> >> > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to
> >> > create a sort of Faraday shield?  I know the XRx cards do a good job
> >> > of shielding if you attach the pigtail.
> >> >
> >> > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards?  Has that been an
> >> > issue?  I think the XR cards have better specs.  Wouldn't having
> >> > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too?
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
> >> >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the
> >> >>box,
> >> >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in
> >> >>their
> >> >>own
> >> >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to
> >> >>a
> >> >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away.
> >>  That's
> >> >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically.  Was an idea from someone
> >> >>a
> >> >>couple of months ago.  (I actually listen to you guys)  Had a 600a
> >> >>doing
> >> >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking.
> >> >>
> >> >>Bob-
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>-Original Message-
> >> >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> >> >>Behalf Of Mike
> >> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM
> >> >>To: WISPA General List
> >> >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors
> >> >>
> >> >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same
> >> >>spectrum in the same box?  I've thought about that but wondered if
> >> >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes
> >> >>another one listening.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
> >> >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall.  We aren't lucky enough to
> >> push
> >> >> >3
> >> >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your
> >> >> >customer
> >> >>base.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it
> into
> >> >> >2
> >> >> >180
> >> >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few
> more
> >> >> >customers.  You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you
> >> just
> >> >> >do
> >> >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you
> to
> >> >> >where
> >> >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for
> >> >> >more
> >> >> >growth.  I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per
> >> >>sector.
> >> >> >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I
> >> only
> >> >> >dole out 1mb per sub typically.  I've also been upgrading some of my
> >> >> >remote
> >> >> >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni.  The
> >> >> >anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card
> >> >> >as
> >> >> >needed to the point where I have 3 sectors.  Keeping the Omni of
> >> >> >course
> >> >> >until the third sector is needed.  That's something someone already
> >> >> >suggested doing and I like the economics of it.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Bob-
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >-Original Message-
> >> >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> ]
> >> On
> >> >> >Behalf Of Jason Hensley
> >> >> >Sen

Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid broadband stimulus.

[Chuck Profito]

This is very interesting, they bailed out GM with our $$ and gave the
biggest % to the union that had the least % at risk and/or invested. Now
they are throwing our Mgrs left and right and telling them what to pay. Even
the union is ticked.
They made some banks take the funds along with derivatives and toxic assets,
but never changed the rules for loaning money back to the way it was. So no
loans still...now the banks are giving the $$ back because of the intrusive
nature of the lien holder telling them who can be paid what and many other
internal things. A banker friend of mine said "It's like a eighth grader
coming in telling us how to run our bank, no life experience, no job
experience, no work ethic, no ethics discernable, but he's read the book."
So these gov types, with NO business experience, especially in your
business, are going to lay out the hoops on the quicksand for you to jump in
and out of? Good luck to those of you that are becoming part of this, I do
hope I'm wrong for your families sake. Too, too many hooks for me. 
Chuck

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:39 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid broadband
stimulus.

What a web we weave! It all goes back to the money. If they didnt offer the
money, they wouldnt need the information. Doesnt anyone care about big
government? Since when is it their job to determine where service should or
should not be? What will you do when they own you?

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 1:59 AM, Chuck Bartosch
wrote:

> Knew it would happen? Isn't that kind of what the data is FOR in the first
> place? To determine where there's service and where there isn't...and they
> don't want to be funding applications where there's already sufficient
> documented service. Seems to me it's exactly the right thing to do.
>
> Chuck
>
> On Dec 2, 2009, at 11:29 PM, RickG wrote:
>
> > I knew this would happen. And thats only what they admit to.
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Scottie Arnett 
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> <
> >>
>
http://blog.telephonyonline.com/unfiltered/2009/12/01/fcc-plans-to-turn-over
-private-data-to-aid-broadband-stimulus/
> >
> >>
> >> Scottie
> >>
> >> Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as
> >> $30.00/mth.
> >> Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>


> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
> >>
>


> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>


> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
>


> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> --
> Chuck Bartosch
> Clarity Connect, Inc.
> 200 Pleasant Grove Road
> Ithaca, NY 14850
> (607) 257-8268
>
> "When the stars threw down their spears,
> and water'd heaven with their tears,
> Did He smile, His work to see?
> Did He who made the Lamb make thee?"
>
> >From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>


>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>




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Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid broadband stimulus.

[St. Louis Broadband]

Who is 'they', the government?  Or the folks that need the jobs?  
Tomorrow they are going to release the nation's jobless rate, prepare for a
new low.  
Yes, you are correct it is all about the money.  
But there are many ways to look at the broadband stimulus, I guess.

However as far as FCC form 477, there is only one way to look at that.
The data was gathered to show where the haves and have not's are and is
being used for that purpose.  

Frankly, I applaud the NTIA for taking the imitative.



V

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 9:39 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid broadband
stimulus.

What a web we weave! It all goes back to the money. If they didnt offer the
money, they wouldnt need the information. Doesnt anyone care about big
government? Since when is it their job to determine where service should or
should not be? What will you do when they own you?

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 1:59 AM, Chuck Bartosch
wrote:

> Knew it would happen? Isn't that kind of what the data is FOR in the first
> place? To determine where there's service and where there isn't...and they
> don't want to be funding applications where there's already sufficient
> documented service. Seems to me it's exactly the right thing to do.
>
> Chuck
>
> On Dec 2, 2009, at 11:29 PM, RickG wrote:
>
> > I knew this would happen. And thats only what they admit to.
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Scottie Arnett 
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> <
> >>
>
http://blog.telephonyonline.com/unfiltered/2009/12/01/fcc-plans-to-turn-over
-private-data-to-aid-broadband-stimulus/
> >
> >>
> >> Scottie
> >>
> >> Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as
> >> $30.00/mth.
> >> Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>


> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
> >>
>


> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>


> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
>


> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> --
> Chuck Bartosch
> Clarity Connect, Inc.
> 200 Pleasant Grove Road
> Ithaca, NY 14850
> (607) 257-8268
>
> "When the stars threw down their spears,
> and water'd heaven with their tears,
> Did He smile, His work to see?
> Did He who made the Lamb make thee?"
>
> >From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>


>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>




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Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid broadband stimulus.

[RickG]

What a web we weave! It all goes back to the money. If they didnt offer the
money, they wouldnt need the information. Doesnt anyone care about big
government? Since when is it their job to determine where service should or
should not be? What will you do when they own you?

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 1:59 AM, Chuck Bartosch wrote:

> Knew it would happen? Isn't that kind of what the data is FOR in the first
> place? To determine where there's service and where there isn't...and they
> don't want to be funding applications where there's already sufficient
> documented service. Seems to me it's exactly the right thing to do.
>
> Chuck
>
> On Dec 2, 2009, at 11:29 PM, RickG wrote:
>
> > I knew this would happen. And thats only what they admit to.
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Scottie Arnett 
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> <
> >>
> http://blog.telephonyonline.com/unfiltered/2009/12/01/fcc-plans-to-turn-over-private-data-to-aid-broadband-stimulus/
> >
> >>
> >> Scottie
> >>
> >> Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as
> >> $30.00/mth.
> >> Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
> >>
> 
> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> --
> Chuck Bartosch
> Clarity Connect, Inc.
> 200 Pleasant Grove Road
> Ithaca, NY 14850
> (607) 257-8268
>
> "When the stars threw down their spears,
> and water'd heaven with their tears,
> Did He smile, His work to see?
> Did He who made the Lamb make thee?"
>
> >From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



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Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

[Mike]

"Tin foil" hats haven't worked since they became "aluminum foil" 
hats.  Tin works much better for grounding and protecting from 
superfluous influences.


At 07:47 PM 12/3/2009, you wrote:
>The vernacular is carried over from days of yore when aluminum was as
>expensive as gold and one would be crazy to wrap things in aluminum.
>
>Maybe we've all been mislead into thinking these aluminum foil hats would
>protect us from the government mind control experiments, however.
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Gary Garrett
>Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 5:30 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>
>Then why do they call it "Tin Foil" if is really aluminum?
>Maybe you need a ground wire to a copper plate on the bottom of your shoes.
>
>
>
>Robert West wrote:
> > So my aluminum foil hat is just bogus  Man, I was wondering.  Now
>I
> > need to find some steel foil
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
>
>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
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Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

[Robert West]

The vernacular is carried over from days of yore when aluminum was as
expensive as gold and one would be crazy to wrap things in aluminum.

Maybe we've all been mislead into thinking these aluminum foil hats would
protect us from the government mind control experiments, however.  



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Gary Garrett
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 5:30 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

Then why do they call it "Tin Foil" if is really aluminum?
Maybe you need a ground wire to a copper plate on the bottom of your shoes.



Robert West wrote:
> So my aluminum foil hat is just bogus  Man, I was wondering.  Now
I
> need to find some steel foil
> 
> 
> 
>




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Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

[Robert West]

Looks like you found out that ice can make the perfect sealant.  Kept all
that water inside!  Good find.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of ccrum
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 4:20 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

The link to the enclosures from belowreposted here:

http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp=

although I buy mine at another location. Those have not leaked, but I've
seen plenty of water in my PAC DCE enclosures. Here is a nice pic of one on
a particularly cold day last year.

http://www.dot11net.com/pics/dce_water.html

Cameron



Josh Luthman wrote:
> What are "these"?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> --- Albert Einstein
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 2:51 PM, ccrum  wrote:
>
>   
>> We use these for anything larger than a 532. We've had great success
>> with them over the last couple years. Not one has leaked as far as I
know.
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> 
>>> Those look like they have a lot of junk sticking out where you'd need to
>>> weather proof connectors.
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Josh Luthman" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case?  Do you normally
use
 steel if not?

 I use these:
 http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp=

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
 --- Albert Einstein


 On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer
 wrote:


 
> I've given up on this.  There is just too much cross talk.  I put all
> radios
> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays.  I try to keep
> them
> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too.  Life is much much nicer.
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mike" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>
>
>
>   
>> Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my
>> messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject.
>>
>> I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea.  I do
>> have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been
>> afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case.
>>
>> The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to
>> create a sort of Faraday shield?  I know the XRx cards do a good job
>> of shielding if you attach the pigtail.
>>
>> How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards?  Has that been an
>> issue?  I think the XR cards have better specs.  Wouldn't having
>> multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the
>>> box,
>>> the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in
>>> their
>>> own
>>> box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's
>>>   
>> to
>> 
>>> a
>>> central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away.
>>>
>>>   
>  That's
>
>   
>>> one that I'm doing just to do it, basically.  Was an idea from
>>>   
>> someone
>> 
>>> a
>>> couple of months ago.  (I actually listen to you guys)  Had a 600a
>>> doing
>>> nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking.
>>>
>>> Bob-
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>>   
>> On
>> 
>>> Behalf Of Mike
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors
>>>
>>> Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same
>>> spectrum in the same box?  I've thought about that but wondered if
>>> there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes
>>> another one listening.
>>>
>>>
>>> At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
>>>
>>>   
 Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall.  We aren't lucky enough to

 
> push
>

Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

[Tom Sharples]

On the rare occasions where we've used those, we drill a 1/16" drain-hole in 
the bottom and glue a thin layer of gauze over the hole to keep out insects.

Tom S.



- Original Message - 
From: "Jeremy Parr" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure


> 2009/12/3 ccrum :
>> The link to the enclosures from belowreposted here:
>>
>> http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp=
>>
>> although I buy mine at another location. Those have not leaked, but I've 
>> seen plenty of water in my PAC DCE enclosures. Here is a nice pic of one 
>> on a particularly cold day last year.
>>
>> http://www.dot11net.com/pics/dce_water.html
>
> We use the same hinged enclosure, but grease the o-ring to get a better 
> seal.
>
>
> 
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> 
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Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

[Jeremy Parr]

2009/12/3 ccrum :
> The link to the enclosures from belowreposted here:
>
> http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp=
>
> although I buy mine at another location. Those have not leaked, but I've seen 
> plenty of water in my PAC DCE enclosures. Here is a nice pic of one on a 
> particularly cold day last year.
>
> http://www.dot11net.com/pics/dce_water.html

We use the same hinged enclosure, but grease the o-ring to get a better seal.



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Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

[Gary Garrett]

Then why do they call it "Tin Foil" if is really aluminum?
Maybe you need a ground wire to a copper plate on the bottom of your shoes.



Robert West wrote:
> So my aluminum foil hat is just bogus  Man, I was wondering.  Now I
> need to find some steel foil
> 
> 
> 
>



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Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

[ccrum]

The link to the enclosures from belowreposted here:

http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp=

although I buy mine at another location. Those have not leaked, but I've seen 
plenty of water in my PAC DCE enclosures. Here is a nice pic of one on a 
particularly cold day last year.

http://www.dot11net.com/pics/dce_water.html

Cameron



Josh Luthman wrote:
> What are "these"?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> --- Albert Einstein
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 2:51 PM, ccrum  wrote:
>
>   
>> We use these for anything larger than a 532. We've had great success
>> with them over the last couple years. Not one has leaked as far as I know.
>>
>> Cameron
>>
>> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
>> 
>>> Those look like they have a lot of junk sticking out where you'd need to
>>> weather proof connectors.
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Josh Luthman" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case?  Do you normally use
 steel if not?

 I use these:
 http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp=

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
 --- Albert Einstein


 On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer
 wrote:


 
> I've given up on this.  There is just too much cross talk.  I put all
> radios
> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays.  I try to keep
> them
> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too.  Life is much much nicer.
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mike" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>
>
>
>   
>> Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my
>> messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject.
>>
>> I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea.  I do
>> have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been
>> afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case.
>>
>> The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to
>> create a sort of Faraday shield?  I know the XRx cards do a good job
>> of shielding if you attach the pigtail.
>>
>> How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards?  Has that been an
>> issue?  I think the XR cards have better specs.  Wouldn't having
>> multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the
>>> box,
>>> the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in
>>> their
>>> own
>>> box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's
>>>   
>> to
>> 
>>> a
>>> central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away.
>>>
>>>   
>  That's
>
>   
>>> one that I'm doing just to do it, basically.  Was an idea from
>>>   
>> someone
>> 
>>> a
>>> couple of months ago.  (I actually listen to you guys)  Had a 600a
>>> doing
>>> nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking.
>>>
>>> Bob-
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>>>   
>> On
>> 
>>> Behalf Of Mike
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors
>>>
>>> Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same
>>> spectrum in the same box?  I've thought about that but wondered if
>>> there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes
>>> another one listening.
>>>
>>>
>>> At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
>>>
>>>   
 Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall.  We aren't lucky enough to

 
> push
>
>   
 3
 meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your
 customer

 
>>> base.
>>>
>>>   
 I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it
 
>> into
>> 
 2
 180
 deg

Re: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

[chris cooper]

Buzzards flew off the railing and landed on the antenna

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Philip Dorr
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:34 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

The watter tank was empty and you where on overlapping frequencies.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
> Were you in front of the backhauls?
>
> -Kevin
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Randy Cosby 
wrote:
>> One more clue.  The problem was RF related (links dropping) but was
not
>> due to the laptop wifi.
>>
>> Randy
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman wrote:
>>> IP address conflict couldn't take both MTs down unless it way the
gateway.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
>>> --- Albert Einstein
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:
>>>
>>>
 I say something with your switch when you plugged your laptop into
the
 network.

 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 P.O. Box 126
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com



 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
[mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Randy Cosby
 Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:02 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

 Here's a fun one I had the other day.

 I have several Trango AP's and 2 Mikrotik backhauls on a water
tank.  I
 am making some upgrades to one of the backhaul links (better
wireless
 card).  I head up to the top of the tank, take out my laptop, plug
it in
 to the switch up there and boot up.  I head for the first backhaul
and
 before I even open the enclosure, I start getting alerts (SMS
messages)
 about BOTH of my backhaul links having problems.  I haven't touched
 anything on them yet.

 Figured out the problem and fixed it within about 20 minutes.  Any
 guesses what the problem was?  Interested to see what everyone
would
 suspect first.

 --
 Randy Cosby
 Vice President
 InfoWest, Inc

 435-674-0165 x 2010

 http://www.infowest.com/








 
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 http://signup.wispa.org/




 

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>>>
>>>
>>>


>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>


>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Randy Cosby
>> Vice President
>> InfoWest, Inc
>>
>> 435-674-0165 x 2010
>>
>> http://www.infowest.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>


>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>


>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
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>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
>


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Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

[Josh Luthman]

What are "these"?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
--- Albert Einstein


On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 2:51 PM, ccrum  wrote:

> We use these for anything larger than a 532. We've had great success
> with them over the last couple years. Not one has leaked as far as I know.
>
> Cameron
>
> Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> > Those look like they have a lot of junk sticking out where you'd need to
> > weather proof connectors.
> > marlon
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Josh Luthman" 
> > To: "WISPA General List" 
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
> >
> >
> >
> >> Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case?  Do you normally use
> >> steel if not?
> >>
> >> I use these:
> >> http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp=
> >>
> >> Josh Luthman
> >> Office: 937-552-2340
> >> Direct: 937-552-2343
> >> 1100 Wayne St
> >> Suite 1337
> >> Troy, OH 45373
> >>
> >> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> >> --- Albert Einstein
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> I've given up on this.  There is just too much cross talk.  I put all
> >>> radios
> >>> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays.  I try to keep
> >>> them
> >>> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too.  Life is much much nicer.
> >>> marlon
> >>>
> >>> - Original Message -
> >>> From: "Mike" 
> >>> To: "WISPA General List" 
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM
> >>> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>  Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my
>  messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject.
> 
>  I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea.  I do
>  have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been
>  afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case.
> 
>  The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to
>  create a sort of Faraday shield?  I know the XRx cards do a good job
>  of shielding if you attach the pigtail.
> 
>  How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards?  Has that been an
>  issue?  I think the XR cards have better specs.  Wouldn't having
>  multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too?
> 
>  Mike
> 
> 
>  At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
> 
> > Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the
> > box,
> > the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in
> > their
> > own
> > box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's
> to
> > a
> > central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away.
> >
> >>>  That's
> >>>
> > one that I'm doing just to do it, basically.  Was an idea from
> someone
> > a
> > couple of months ago.  (I actually listen to you guys)  Had a 600a
> > doing
> > nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking.
> >
> > Bob-
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> > Behalf Of Mike
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors
> >
> > Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same
> > spectrum in the same box?  I've thought about that but wondered if
> > there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes
> > another one listening.
> >
> >
> > At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
> >
> >> Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall.  We aren't lucky enough to
> >>
> >>> push
> >>>
> >> 3
> >> meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your
> >> customer
> >>
> > base.
> >
> >> I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it
> into
> >> 2
> >> 180
> >> degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few
> more
> >> customers.  You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you
> >>
> >>> just
> >>>
> >> do
> >> 2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you
> to
> >> where
> >> you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for
> >> more
> >> growth.  I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per
> >>
> > sector.
> >
> >> I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I
> >>
> >>> only
> >>>
> >> dole out 1mb per sub typically.  I've also been upgrading some of my
> >> remote
> >> AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni.  The
> >> anticipated upgr

Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

[ccrum]

We use these for anything larger than a 532. We've had great success 
with them over the last couple years. Not one has leaked as far as I know.

Cameron

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
> Those look like they have a lot of junk sticking out where you'd need to 
> weather proof connectors.
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>
>
>   
>> Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case?  Do you normally use
>> steel if not?
>>
>> I use these:
>> http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp=
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
>> --- Albert Einstein
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> I've given up on this.  There is just too much cross talk.  I put all
>>> radios
>>> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays.  I try to keep 
>>> them
>>> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too.  Life is much much nicer.
>>> marlon
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Mike" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my
 messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject.

 I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea.  I do
 have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been
 afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case.

 The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to
 create a sort of Faraday shield?  I know the XRx cards do a good job
 of shielding if you attach the pigtail.

 How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards?  Has that been an
 issue?  I think the XR cards have better specs.  Wouldn't having
 multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too?

 Mike


 At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
 
> Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the 
> box,
> the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in 
> their
> own
> box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to 
> a
> central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away.
>   
>>>  That's
>>>   
> one that I'm doing just to do it, basically.  Was an idea from someone 
> a
> couple of months ago.  (I actually listen to you guys)  Had a 600a 
> doing
> nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking.
>
> Bob-
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors
>
> Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same
> spectrum in the same box?  I've thought about that but wondered if
> there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes
> another one listening.
>
>
> At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
>   
>> Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall.  We aren't lucky enough to
>> 
>>> push
>>>   
>> 3
>> meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your 
>> customer
>> 
> base.
>   
>> I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 
>> 2
>> 180
>> degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more
>> customers.  You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you
>> 
>>> just
>>>   
>> do
>> 2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to
>> where
>> you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for 
>> more
>> growth.  I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per
>> 
> sector.
>   
>> I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I
>> 
>>> only
>>>   
>> dole out 1mb per sub typically.  I've also been upgrading some of my
>> remote
>> AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni.  The
>> anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card 
>> as
>> needed to the point where I have 3 sectors.  Keeping the Omni of 
>> course
>> until the third sector is needed.  That's something someone already
>> suggested doing and I like the economics of it.
>>
>> Bob-
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wire

Re: [WISPA] 5.6 GHZ?

[Patrick Shoemaker]

There are private weather radar systems that live around 5600 MHz as 
well. You can find them with ULS. Avoid the licensed frequencies in use 
by these systems within a few hundred NM.

Patrick Shoemaker
Vector Data Systems LLC
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
office: (301) 358-1690 x36
http://www.vectordatasystems.com


rwf wrote:
> I am not sure but I think it is pretty much limited to Military
> installations.
> I haven't been able to verify this for sure, but one of my mesh gear
> providers deals pretty much only with DOD installations and he tells me that
> that is where the RADAR is that caused us to have to deal with the DFS
> rules.
> 
> I could be totally wrong, but that is what he said.
> 
> Ralph
> 
> Behalf Of Scott Carullo
> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 6:22 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.6 GHZ?
> 
> Anyone know of a way to find out what freq a weather radar is operating on? 
>  I know of several local ones and would like to know what freq they operate 
> on for safety sake.  Any ideas?  I've looked everywhere and found nothing?
> 
> Scott Carullo
> Brevard Wireless
> 321-205-1100 x102
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Jack Unger" 
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 1:16 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" , "memb...@wispa.org" 
> 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.6 GHZ?
> 
> IMO, it is "iffy" for the reason you mentioned. The FCC (at the request
> of the FAA and the NTIA) appears ready to deny use of the 5.6 spectrum
> in areas where interference with airport weather radar takes place. I
> doubt that any WISP would ague that their use of that spectrum is more
> important than safe operation of commercial aircraft. I expect that
> newly certified 5 GHz equipment will soon (within the next year)
> include a updated DFS algorithm that looks for the presence of 5.6 GHz
> radar and switches away from 5.6 when radar is detected. 
> 
> Your existing equipment may remain technically "legal" but you do run
> the risk of possibly being blamed for aircraft crashes assuming you are
> unlucky enough to be using 5.6 near airports where you could cause
> actual interference to Terminal Doppler Weather Radar systems. See
>  for more information. 
> 
> jack
> 
> Travis Johnson wrote:
> 
> It's "iffy" because the FCC allowed the specific band, and now they are
> trying to take it back away... two years later. If I never upgrade my
> radios, does that mean I'm legal to run in that specific band forever?
> 
> I just don't understand how they can allow it for 2 years, and then try
> and take it away and think they are going to clean up the airways.
> 
> Travis
> Microserv
> 
> 3-dB Networks wrote:
> 
> Motorola Canopy 5.4GHz radios updated with the latest firmware cannot 
> transmit in the 5600-5650 part of the band.  I don't understand what is 
> "iffy" about the band... Canopy operators have been using it for two years 
> or so now legally, and while DFS still has issues in its current 
> implementation, the FCC is working to make the DFS detection better on the 
> radio side and in turn make it harder to radio manufacturers to allow 
> clients to avoid using DFS  Daniel White 3-dB Networks 
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 11:02 PM To: WISPA 
> General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.6 GHZ?  5470 - 5725 is a legitimate 
> band but DFS2 must be used on the radios.  There is currently FCC activity 
> to modify the DFS profiles for all  newly-certified radios to avoid 
> aircraft radar system in the 5.6 GHz  part of the 5470-5725 band. The 
> bottom line is - it's pretty "iffy".jack   
> Forbes Mercy wrote:   
> 
> My new MIMO radios have 5.6 GHZ on them, I don't recall that frequency 
> being available in the US.  Is it?  Forbes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> --  Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - "Deploying 
> License-Free Wireless WANs" Serv

[WISPA] 900 MHz. Antennas....

[Bob Moldashel]

If anyone is doing 900 MHz. and needs base sector antennas I have the 
following:

Andrew 844G65VTZASX  15 dB Vertical Polarity   (I have 25 pieces)

http://www.antenasystems.com/pdfs/base_pdf/844G65VTZASX.pdf



These are real serious sector antennas. You can't mount these with a 
piece of pipe from Radio Shack. If anyone is interested contact me off 
list. These list well in excess of $ 1,200 each

Bob

lakel...@gbcx.net



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Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

[Mike]

Not sure I buy that.  Platinum is the best conductor, then gold, then 
silver.  Copper and aluminum are up there too, and way better than steel.

I have an old 50s vintage radio receiver that came out of a 
submarine.  You can place a plastic cased laptop computer right on 
top of it and there is no noise in the receiver, even at long wave 
frequencies.  The radio cabinet is ultra shielded. The cabinet is 
1/8" copper plate.

Aluminum conducts almost as well as copper as far as RF shielding goes.

Most old lightning rods I've ever met were made of bronze 
too.  Why?  It can get hit many times without melting.

At 11:41 PM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
>Aluminum is moderately effective at attenuating microwave rf.
>
>Steel is needed to dampen EMP (from lightning strikes).
>
>
>
>--
>From: "Josh Luthman" 
>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM
>To: "WISPA General List" 
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>
> > Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case?  Do you normally use
> > steel if not?
> >
> > I use these:
> > http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp=
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> > --- Albert Einstein
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I've given up on this.  There is just too much cross talk.  I put all
> >> radios
> >> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays.  I try to keep
> >> them
> >> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too.  Life is much much nicer.
> >> marlon
> >>
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From: "Mike" 
> >> To: "WISPA General List" 
> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM
> >> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
> >>
> >>
> >> > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my
> >> > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject.
> >> >
> >> > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea.  I do
> >> > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been
> >> > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case.
> >> >
> >> > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to
> >> > create a sort of Faraday shield?  I know the XRx cards do a good job
> >> > of shielding if you attach the pigtail.
> >> >
> >> > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards?  Has that been an
> >> > issue?  I think the XR cards have better specs.  Wouldn't having
> >> > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too?
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
> >> >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the
> >> >>box,
> >> >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in
> >> >>their
> >> >>own
> >> >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to
> >> >>a
> >> >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away.
> >>  That's
> >> >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically.  Was an idea from someone
> >> >>a
> >> >>couple of months ago.  (I actually listen to you guys)  Had a 600a
> >> >>doing
> >> >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking.
> >> >>
> >> >>Bob-
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>-Original Message-
> >> >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >> >>Behalf Of Mike
> >> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM
> >> >>To: WISPA General List
> >> >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors
> >> >>
> >> >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same
> >> >>spectrum in the same box?  I've thought about that but wondered if
> >> >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes
> >> >>another one listening.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
> >> >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall.  We aren't lucky enough to
> >> push
> >> >> >3
> >> >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your
> >> >> >customer
> >> >>base.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into
> >> >> >2
> >> >> >180
> >> >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more
> >> >> >customers.  You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you
> >> just
> >> >> >do
> >> >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to
> >> >> >where
> >> >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for
> >> >> >more
> >> >> >growth.  I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per
> >> >>sector.
> >> >> >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I
> >> only
> >> >> >dole out 1mb per sub typically.  I've also been upgrading some of my
> >> >> >remote
> >> >> >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni

Re: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

[Randy Cosby]

Ding ding ding... We have a winner...  Close enough!

Randy


Jack Unger wrote:
> OR... the laptop was radiating strong spurious RF energy and that 
> spurious energy was interfering with the receiving ability of your 
> backhauls.
>
> Jack Unger wrote:
>> You removed your climbing harness from where you had draped it over 
>> the backhaul antennas to keep it out of your way while you were 
>> working on top of the tank?
>>
>>
>> Randy Cosby wrote:
>>> One more clue.  The problem was RF related (links dropping) but was not 
>>> due to the laptop wifi.
>>>
>>> Randy
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman wrote:
>>>   
 IP address conflict couldn't take both MTs down unless it way the gateway.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
 --- Albert Einstein


 On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:

   
 
> I say something with your switch when you plugged your laptop into the
> network.
>
> Kurt Fankhauser
> WAVELINC
> P.O. Box 126
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
> 419-562-6405
> www.wavelinc.com
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Randy Cosby
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:02 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] wireless mysteries
>
> Here's a fun one I had the other day.
>
> I have several Trango AP's and 2 Mikrotik backhauls on a water tank.  I
> am making some upgrades to one of the backhaul links (better wireless
> card).  I head up to the top of the tank, take out my laptop, plug it in
> to the switch up there and boot up.  I head for the first backhaul and
> before I even open the enclosure, I start getting alerts (SMS messages)
> about BOTH of my backhaul links having problems.  I haven't touched
> anything on them yet.
>
> Figured out the problem and fixed it within about 20 minutes.  Any
> guesses what the problem was?  Interested to see what everyone would
> suspect first.
>
> --
> Randy Cosby
> Vice President
> InfoWest, Inc
>
> 435-674-0165 x 2010
>
> http://www.infowest.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
> 
>
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>
>
>
> 
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> 
>   
 
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>>>
>>>   
>>
>> -- 
>> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
>> Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
>> Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
>> www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com
>>
>> Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString...
>>
>>
>>
>>   
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> -- 
> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
> Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
> Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
> www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com
>
> Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString...
>
>
>
>   
> 
>
>
>
> --

Re: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

[Randy Cosby]

After looking at a lot of the stuff you guys guessed, I next suspected 
my cell phone.  Shut it off, no changes.

Then out of desparation I unplugged the laptop and shut if off.  After 
about 45 seconds, things cleaned up.

Culprit: *http://tinyurl.com/yapstzd

*I have a feeling this replacement ac adapter (a wire shorted on my 
original one ) never went through FCC emissions testing.  Ordered a new 
Dell OEM later that day.

I wonder how many other devices out there spew crud and raise our noise 
floors like this?

Randy


Josh Luthman wrote:
> But what did you do to fix it..?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> --- Albert Einstein
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Randy Cosby  wrote:
>
>   
>> One more clue.  The problem was RF related (links dropping) but was not
>> due to the laptop wifi.
>>
>> Randy
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman wrote:
>> 
>>> IP address conflict couldn't take both MTs down unless it way the
>>>   
>> gateway.
>> 
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
>>> --- Albert Einstein
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
>>>   
>> wrote:
>> 
>>>   
 I say something with your switch when you plugged your laptop into the
 network.

 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 P.O. Box 126
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com



 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Randy Cosby
 Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:02 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

 Here's a fun one I had the other day.

 I have several Trango AP's and 2 Mikrotik backhauls on a water tank.  I
 am making some upgrades to one of the backhaul links (better wireless
 card).  I head up to the top of the tank, take out my laptop, plug it in
 to the switch up there and boot up.  I head for the first backhaul and
 before I even open the enclosure, I start getting alerts (SMS messages)
 about BOTH of my backhaul links having problems.  I haven't touched
 anything on them yet.

 Figured out the problem and fixed it within about 20 minutes.  Any
 guesses what the problem was?  Interested to see what everyone would
 suspect first.

 --
 Randy Cosby
 Vice President
 InfoWest, Inc

 435-674-0165 x 2010

 http://www.infowest.com/






 
>> 
>> 
 
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>> 
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>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>   
>> --
>> Randy Cosby
>> Vice President
>> InfoWest, Inc
>>
>> 435-674-0165 x 2010
>>
>> http://www.infowest.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
>>
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>>
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>> 
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> ---

Re: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

[Josh Luthman]

Removed harness?!  WHAT?!  Such an idea gives me a headache.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
--- Albert Einstein


On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:47 PM, Jack Unger  wrote:

>  You removed your climbing harness from where you had draped it over the
> backhaul antennas to keep it out of your way while you were working on top
> of the tank?
>
>
>
> Randy Cosby wrote:
>
> One more clue.  The problem was RF related (links dropping) but was not
> due to the laptop wifi.
>
> Randy
>
>
> Josh Luthman wrote:
>
>
>  IP address conflict couldn't take both MTs down unless it way the gateway.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> --- Albert Einstein
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  
>  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>  I say something with your switch when you plugged your laptop into the
> network.
>
> Kurt Fankhauser
> WAVELINC
> P.O. Box 126
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
> 419-562-6405www.wavelinc.com
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org 
> ] On
> Behalf Of Randy Cosby
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:02 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] wireless mysteries
>
> Here's a fun one I had the other day.
>
> I have several Trango AP's and 2 Mikrotik backhauls on a water tank.  I
> am making some upgrades to one of the backhaul links (better wireless
> card).  I head up to the top of the tank, take out my laptop, plug it in
> to the switch up there and boot up.  I head for the first backhaul and
> before I even open the enclosure, I start getting alerts (SMS messages)
> about BOTH of my backhaul links having problems.  I haven't touched
> anything on them yet.
>
> Figured out the problem and fixed it within about 20 minutes.  Any
> guesses what the problem was?  Interested to see what everyone would
> suspect first.
>
> --
> Randy Cosby
> Vice President
> InfoWest, Inc
>
> 435-674-0165 x 2010
> http://www.infowest.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
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>
> --
> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
> Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
> Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993www.ask-wi.com  
> 818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com
>
> Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString...
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> 
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Re: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

[Travis Johnson]

You left your p2p client running on your laptop from the night before,
and it started downloading 100GB's of illegal music, taking down the
backhauls. :)

Travis
Microserv

Philip Dorr wrote:

  The watter tank was empty and you where on overlapping frequencies.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
  
  
Were you in front of the backhauls?

-Kevin


On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Randy Cosby  wrote:


  One more clue.  The problem was RF related (links dropping) but was not
due to the laptop wifi.

Randy


Josh Luthman wrote:
  
  
IP address conflict couldn't take both MTs down unless it way the gateway.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
--- Albert Einstein


On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:




  I say something with your switch when you plugged your laptop into the
network.

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Randy Cosby
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:02 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

Here's a fun one I had the other day.

I have several Trango AP's and 2 Mikrotik backhauls on a water tank.  I
am making some upgrades to one of the backhaul links (better wireless
card).  I head up to the top of the tank, take out my laptop, plug it in
to the switch up there and boot up.  I head for the first backhaul and
before I even open the enclosure, I start getting alerts (SMS messages)
about BOTH of my backhaul links having problems.  I haven't touched
anything on them yet.

Figured out the problem and fixed it within about 20 minutes.  Any
guesses what the problem was?  Interested to see what everyone would
suspect first.

--
Randy Cosby
Vice President
InfoWest, Inc

435-674-0165 x 2010

http://www.infowest.com/







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  --
Randy Cosby
Vice President
InfoWest, Inc

435-674-0165 x 2010

http://www.infowest.com/





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Re: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

[Jack Unger]

OR... the laptop was radiating strong spurious RF energy and that
spurious energy was interfering with the receiving ability of your
backhauls. 

Jack Unger wrote:

  
You removed your climbing harness from where you had draped it over the
backhaul antennas to keep it out of your way while you were working on
top of the tank?
  
  
Randy Cosby wrote:
  
One more clue.  The problem was RF related (links dropping) but was not 
due to the laptop wifi.

Randy


Josh Luthman wrote:
  

  IP address conflict couldn't take both MTs down unless it way the gateway.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
--- Albert Einstein


On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:

  

  
I say something with your switch when you plugged your laptop into the
network.

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Randy Cosby
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:02 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

Here's a fun one I had the other day.

I have several Trango AP's and 2 Mikrotik backhauls on a water tank.  I
am making some upgrades to one of the backhaul links (better wireless
card).  I head up to the top of the tank, take out my laptop, plug it in
to the switch up there and boot up.  I head for the first backhaul and
before I even open the enclosure, I start getting alerts (SMS messages)
about BOTH of my backhaul links having problems.  I haven't touched
anything on them yet.

Figured out the problem and fixed it within about 20 minutes.  Any
guesses what the problem was?  Interested to see what everyone would
suspect first.

--
Randy Cosby
Vice President
InfoWest, Inc

435-674-0165 x 2010

http://www.infowest.com/







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  -- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com

Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString...



  
  




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-- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com

Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString...









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Re: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

[Jack Unger]

You removed your climbing harness from where you had draped it over the
backhaul antennas to keep it out of your way while you were working on
top of the tank?


Randy Cosby wrote:

  One more clue.  The problem was RF related (links dropping) but was not 
due to the laptop wifi.

Randy


Josh Luthman wrote:
  
  
IP address conflict couldn't take both MTs down unless it way the gateway.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
--- Albert Einstein


On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:

  


  I say something with your switch when you plugged your laptop into the
network.

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Randy Cosby
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:02 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

Here's a fun one I had the other day.

I have several Trango AP's and 2 Mikrotik backhauls on a water tank.  I
am making some upgrades to one of the backhaul links (better wireless
card).  I head up to the top of the tank, take out my laptop, plug it in
to the switch up there and boot up.  I head for the first backhaul and
before I even open the enclosure, I start getting alerts (SMS messages)
about BOTH of my backhaul links having problems.  I haven't touched
anything on them yet.

Figured out the problem and fixed it within about 20 minutes.  Any
guesses what the problem was?  Interested to see what everyone would
suspect first.

--
Randy Cosby
Vice President
InfoWest, Inc

435-674-0165 x 2010

http://www.infowest.com/







WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/




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-- 
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
www.ask-wi.com  818-227-4220  jun...@ask-wi.com

Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString...









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Re: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

[Philip Dorr]

The watter tank was empty and you where on overlapping frequencies.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
> Were you in front of the backhauls?
>
> -Kevin
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Randy Cosby  wrote:
>> One more clue.  The problem was RF related (links dropping) but was not
>> due to the laptop wifi.
>>
>> Randy
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman wrote:
>>> IP address conflict couldn't take both MTs down unless it way the gateway.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
>>> --- Albert Einstein
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:
>>>
>>>
 I say something with your switch when you plugged your laptop into the
 network.

 Kurt Fankhauser
 WAVELINC
 P.O. Box 126
 Bucyrus, OH 44820
 419-562-6405
 www.wavelinc.com



 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Randy Cosby
 Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:02 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

 Here's a fun one I had the other day.

 I have several Trango AP's and 2 Mikrotik backhauls on a water tank.  I
 am making some upgrades to one of the backhaul links (better wireless
 card).  I head up to the top of the tank, take out my laptop, plug it in
 to the switch up there and boot up.  I head for the first backhaul and
 before I even open the enclosure, I start getting alerts (SMS messages)
 about BOTH of my backhaul links having problems.  I haven't touched
 anything on them yet.

 Figured out the problem and fixed it within about 20 minutes.  Any
 guesses what the problem was?  Interested to see what everyone would
 suspect first.

 --
 Randy Cosby
 Vice President
 InfoWest, Inc

 435-674-0165 x 2010

 http://www.infowest.com/





 
 
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>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Randy Cosby
>> Vice President
>> InfoWest, Inc
>>
>> 435-674-0165 x 2010
>>
>> http://www.infowest.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
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>>
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>>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

[Kevin Neal]

Were you in front of the backhauls?

-Kevin


On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Randy Cosby  wrote:
> One more clue.  The problem was RF related (links dropping) but was not
> due to the laptop wifi.
>
> Randy
>
>
> Josh Luthman wrote:
>> IP address conflict couldn't take both MTs down unless it way the gateway.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
>> --- Albert Einstein
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I say something with your switch when you plugged your laptop into the
>>> network.
>>>
>>> Kurt Fankhauser
>>> WAVELINC
>>> P.O. Box 126
>>> Bucyrus, OH 44820
>>> 419-562-6405
>>> www.wavelinc.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Randy Cosby
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:02 PM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: [WISPA] wireless mysteries
>>>
>>> Here's a fun one I had the other day.
>>>
>>> I have several Trango AP's and 2 Mikrotik backhauls on a water tank.  I
>>> am making some upgrades to one of the backhaul links (better wireless
>>> card).  I head up to the top of the tank, take out my laptop, plug it in
>>> to the switch up there and boot up.  I head for the first backhaul and
>>> before I even open the enclosure, I start getting alerts (SMS messages)
>>> about BOTH of my backhaul links having problems.  I haven't touched
>>> anything on them yet.
>>>
>>> Figured out the problem and fixed it within about 20 minutes.  Any
>>> guesses what the problem was?  Interested to see what everyone would
>>> suspect first.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Randy Cosby
>>> Vice President
>>> InfoWest, Inc
>>>
>>> 435-674-0165 x 2010
>>>
>>> http://www.infowest.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>>
>
> --
> Randy Cosby
> Vice President
> InfoWest, Inc
>
> 435-674-0165 x 2010
>
> http://www.infowest.com/
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

[Josh Luthman]

But what did you do to fix it..?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
--- Albert Einstein


On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Randy Cosby  wrote:

> One more clue.  The problem was RF related (links dropping) but was not
> due to the laptop wifi.
>
> Randy
>
>
> Josh Luthman wrote:
> > IP address conflict couldn't take both MTs down unless it way the
> gateway.
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> > --- Albert Einstein
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Kurt Fankhauser 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> I say something with your switch when you plugged your laptop into the
> >> network.
> >>
> >> Kurt Fankhauser
> >> WAVELINC
> >> P.O. Box 126
> >> Bucyrus, OH 44820
> >> 419-562-6405
> >> www.wavelinc.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Randy Cosby
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:02 PM
> >> To: WISPA General List
> >> Subject: [WISPA] wireless mysteries
> >>
> >> Here's a fun one I had the other day.
> >>
> >> I have several Trango AP's and 2 Mikrotik backhauls on a water tank.  I
> >> am making some upgrades to one of the backhaul links (better wireless
> >> card).  I head up to the top of the tank, take out my laptop, plug it in
> >> to the switch up there and boot up.  I head for the first backhaul and
> >> before I even open the enclosure, I start getting alerts (SMS messages)
> >> about BOTH of my backhaul links having problems.  I haven't touched
> >> anything on them yet.
> >>
> >> Figured out the problem and fixed it within about 20 minutes.  Any
> >> guesses what the problem was?  Interested to see what everyone would
> >> suspect first.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Randy Cosby
> >> Vice President
> >> InfoWest, Inc
> >>
> >> 435-674-0165 x 2010
> >>
> >> http://www.infowest.com/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
> >> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
> >>
> 
> >> 
> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
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> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
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> >
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> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
> --
> Randy Cosby
> Vice President
> InfoWest, Inc
>
> 435-674-0165 x 2010
>
> http://www.infowest.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>
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Re: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

[Randy Cosby]

One more clue.  The problem was RF related (links dropping) but was not 
due to the laptop wifi.

Randy


Josh Luthman wrote:
> IP address conflict couldn't take both MTs down unless it way the gateway.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> --- Albert Einstein
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:
>
>   
>> I say something with your switch when you plugged your laptop into the
>> network.
>>
>> Kurt Fankhauser
>> WAVELINC
>> P.O. Box 126
>> Bucyrus, OH 44820
>> 419-562-6405
>> www.wavelinc.com
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Randy Cosby
>> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:02 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] wireless mysteries
>>
>> Here's a fun one I had the other day.
>>
>> I have several Trango AP's and 2 Mikrotik backhauls on a water tank.  I
>> am making some upgrades to one of the backhaul links (better wireless
>> card).  I head up to the top of the tank, take out my laptop, plug it in
>> to the switch up there and boot up.  I head for the first backhaul and
>> before I even open the enclosure, I start getting alerts (SMS messages)
>> about BOTH of my backhaul links having problems.  I haven't touched
>> anything on them yet.
>>
>> Figured out the problem and fixed it within about 20 minutes.  Any
>> guesses what the problem was?  Interested to see what everyone would
>> suspect first.
>>
>> --
>> Randy Cosby
>> Vice President
>> InfoWest, Inc
>>
>> 435-674-0165 x 2010
>>
>> http://www.infowest.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
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>>
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>
>
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-- 
Randy Cosby
Vice President
InfoWest, Inc

435-674-0165 x 2010

http://www.infowest.com/





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Re: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

[Josh Luthman]

IP address conflict couldn't take both MTs down unless it way the gateway.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
--- Albert Einstein


On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:10 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  wrote:

> I say something with your switch when you plugged your laptop into the
> network.
>
> Kurt Fankhauser
> WAVELINC
> P.O. Box 126
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
> 419-562-6405
> www.wavelinc.com
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Randy Cosby
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:02 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] wireless mysteries
>
> Here's a fun one I had the other day.
>
> I have several Trango AP's and 2 Mikrotik backhauls on a water tank.  I
> am making some upgrades to one of the backhaul links (better wireless
> card).  I head up to the top of the tank, take out my laptop, plug it in
> to the switch up there and boot up.  I head for the first backhaul and
> before I even open the enclosure, I start getting alerts (SMS messages)
> about BOTH of my backhaul links having problems.  I haven't touched
> anything on them yet.
>
> Figured out the problem and fixed it within about 20 minutes.  Any
> guesses what the problem was?  Interested to see what everyone would
> suspect first.
>
> --
> Randy Cosby
> Vice President
> InfoWest, Inc
>
> 435-674-0165 x 2010
>
> http://www.infowest.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

[Kurt Fankhauser]

I say something with your switch when you plugged your laptop into the
network.

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com
 
 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Randy Cosby
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:02 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

Here's a fun one I had the other day.

I have several Trango AP's and 2 Mikrotik backhauls on a water tank.  I 
am making some upgrades to one of the backhaul links (better wireless 
card).  I head up to the top of the tank, take out my laptop, plug it in 
to the switch up there and boot up.  I head for the first backhaul and 
before I even open the enclosure, I start getting alerts (SMS messages) 
about BOTH of my backhaul links having problems.  I haven't touched 
anything on them yet. 

Figured out the problem and fixed it within about 20 minutes.  Any 
guesses what the problem was?  Interested to see what everyone would 
suspect first.

-- 
Randy Cosby
Vice President
InfoWest, Inc

435-674-0165 x 2010

http://www.infowest.com/






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Re: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

[Jeremy Parr]

2009/12/3 Randy Cosby :
> Here's a fun one I had the other day.
>
> I have several Trango AP's and 2 Mikrotik backhauls on a water tank.  I
> am making some upgrades to one of the backhaul links (better wireless
> card).  I head up to the top of the tank, take out my laptop, plug it in
> to the switch up there and boot up.  I head for the first backhaul and
> before I even open the enclosure, I start getting alerts (SMS messages)
> about BOTH of my backhaul links having problems.  I haven't touched
> anything on them yet.
>
> Figured out the problem and fixed it within about 20 minutes.  Any
> guesses what the problem was?  Interested to see what everyone would
> suspect first.

Switch loop or IP address conflict? You plugged your laptop in to a
shared uplink port?



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Re: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

[Josh Luthman]

What did you do to fix it?  Looks to me like your laptop or the switch
caused the problem.

Wireless card in the laptop doesn't transmit unless it's acting as an AP,
which it uniquely done.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
--- Albert Einstein


On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:

> Hrm...disturbed the cable run(s) on the way up?  Orwireless card
> in your laptop.
>
> -Kevin
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:02 AM, Randy Cosby  wrote:
> > Here's a fun one I had the other day.
> >
> > I have several Trango AP's and 2 Mikrotik backhauls on a water tank.  I
> > am making some upgrades to one of the backhaul links (better wireless
> > card).  I head up to the top of the tank, take out my laptop, plug it in
> > to the switch up there and boot up.  I head for the first backhaul and
> > before I even open the enclosure, I start getting alerts (SMS messages)
> > about BOTH of my backhaul links having problems.  I haven't touched
> > anything on them yet.
> >
> > Figured out the problem and fixed it within about 20 minutes.  Any
> > guesses what the problem was?  Interested to see what everyone would
> > suspect first.
> >
> > --
> > Randy Cosby
> > Vice President
> > InfoWest, Inc
> >
> > 435-674-0165 x 2010
> >
> > http://www.infowest.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
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> >
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] wireless mysteries

[Kevin Neal]

Hrm...disturbed the cable run(s) on the way up?  Orwireless card
in your laptop.

-Kevin

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:02 AM, Randy Cosby  wrote:
> Here's a fun one I had the other day.
>
> I have several Trango AP's and 2 Mikrotik backhauls on a water tank.  I
> am making some upgrades to one of the backhaul links (better wireless
> card).  I head up to the top of the tank, take out my laptop, plug it in
> to the switch up there and boot up.  I head for the first backhaul and
> before I even open the enclosure, I start getting alerts (SMS messages)
> about BOTH of my backhaul links having problems.  I haven't touched
> anything on them yet.
>
> Figured out the problem and fixed it within about 20 minutes.  Any
> guesses what the problem was?  Interested to see what everyone would
> suspect first.
>
> --
> Randy Cosby
> Vice President
> InfoWest, Inc
>
> 435-674-0165 x 2010
>
> http://www.infowest.com/
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
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[WISPA] wireless mysteries

[Randy Cosby]

Here's a fun one I had the other day.

I have several Trango AP's and 2 Mikrotik backhauls on a water tank.  I 
am making some upgrades to one of the backhaul links (better wireless 
card).  I head up to the top of the tank, take out my laptop, plug it in 
to the switch up there and boot up.  I head for the first backhaul and 
before I even open the enclosure, I start getting alerts (SMS messages) 
about BOTH of my backhaul links having problems.  I haven't touched 
anything on them yet. 

Figured out the problem and fixed it within about 20 minutes.  Any 
guesses what the problem was?  Interested to see what everyone would 
suspect first.

-- 
Randy Cosby
Vice President
InfoWest, Inc

435-674-0165 x 2010

http://www.infowest.com/





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Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

[Jayson Baker]

Yeah, they're bad.  Trust me.  When we very first started using MT that was
all that was available.  They're total garbage.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 9:01 AM,  wrote:

> I know some special purpose plastic enclosures made for RF work have
> conductive/shielding qualities to them. There's even conductive/shielding
> paint one can buy for RF projects. So those plastic boxes might not be as
> bad as you think.
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Dec 3, 2009, at 10:50 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> > More along the lines of plastic enclosures versus metal enclosures.
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> > --- Albert Einstein
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Robert West  >wrote:
> >
> >> Plastic next to the antennas???  CRAZY!  So the radios pretty much talk
> to
> >> themselves a lot, huh.  Hearing voices in their heads.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Jayson Baker
> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:36 PM
> >> To: WISPA General List
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
> >>
> >> I have to laugh at one of our competitors who uses PLASTIC enclosures
> next
> >> to their antennas on the tower.  Even on the most RF-jam packed sites.
>  One
> >> site in particular you can almost get a fluorescent light to glow just
> >> holding it in your hands.  And there they are with their plastic
> >> enclosures.  And can't figure out why their system sucks ass.
> >>
> >> Oh well.  They burned us for over $100k in consulting fees and
> equipment.
> >> It makes me laugh everytime I see it.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I've given up on this.  There is just too much cross talk.  I put all
> >>> radios
> >>> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays.  I try to keep
> >> them
> >>> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too.  Life is much much nicer.
> >>> marlon
> >>>
> >>> - Original Message -
> >>> From: "Mike" 
> >>> To: "WISPA General List" 
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM
> >>> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
> >>>
> >>>
>  Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my
>  messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject.
> 
>  I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea.  I do
>  have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been
>  afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case.
> 
>  The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to
>  create a sort of Faraday shield?  I know the XRx cards do a good job
>  of shielding if you attach the pigtail.
> 
>  How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards?  Has that been an
>  issue?  I think the XR cards have better specs.  Wouldn't having
>  multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too?
> 
>  Mike
> 
> 
>  At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
> > Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the
> >> box,
> > the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in
> >> their
> > own
> > box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's
> to
> >> a
> > central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away.
> >>> That's
> > one that I'm doing just to do it, basically.  Was an idea from
> someone
> >> a
> > couple of months ago.  (I actually listen to you guys)  Had a 600a
> >> doing
> > nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking.
> >
> > Bob-
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> >> On
> > Behalf Of Mike
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors
> >
> > Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same
> > spectrum in the same box?  I've thought about that but wondered if
> > there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes
> > another one listening.
> >
> >
> > At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
> >> Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall.  We aren't lucky enough to
> >>> push
> >> 3
> >> meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your
> >> customer
> > base.
> >>
> >> I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it
> into
> >> 2
> >> 180
> >> degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few
> more
> >> customers.  You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you
> >>> just
> >> do
> >> 2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you
> to
> >> where

Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

[os10rules]

I know some special purpose plastic enclosures made for RF work have 
conductive/shielding qualities to them. There's even conductive/shielding paint 
one can buy for RF projects. So those plastic boxes might not be as bad as you 
think.

Greg


On Dec 3, 2009, at 10:50 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

> More along the lines of plastic enclosures versus metal enclosures.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> --- Albert Einstein
> 
> 
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Robert West 
> wrote:
> 
>> Plastic next to the antennas???  CRAZY!  So the radios pretty much talk to
>> themselves a lot, huh.  Hearing voices in their heads.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Jayson Baker
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:36 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>> 
>> I have to laugh at one of our competitors who uses PLASTIC enclosures next
>> to their antennas on the tower.  Even on the most RF-jam packed sites.  One
>> site in particular you can almost get a fluorescent light to glow just
>> holding it in your hands.  And there they are with their plastic
>> enclosures.  And can't figure out why their system sucks ass.
>> 
>> Oh well.  They burned us for over $100k in consulting fees and equipment.
>> It makes me laugh everytime I see it.
>> 
>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I've given up on this.  There is just too much cross talk.  I put all
>>> radios
>>> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays.  I try to keep
>> them
>>> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too.  Life is much much nicer.
>>> marlon
>>> 
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Mike" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>>> 
>>> 
 Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my
 messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject.
 
 I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea.  I do
 have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been
 afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case.
 
 The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to
 create a sort of Faraday shield?  I know the XRx cards do a good job
 of shielding if you attach the pigtail.
 
 How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards?  Has that been an
 issue?  I think the XR cards have better specs.  Wouldn't having
 multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too?
 
 Mike
 
 
 At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
> Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the
>> box,
> the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in
>> their
> own
> box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to
>> a
> central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away.
>>> That's
> one that I'm doing just to do it, basically.  Was an idea from someone
>> a
> couple of months ago.  (I actually listen to you guys)  Had a 600a
>> doing
> nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking.
> 
> Bob-
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On
> Behalf Of Mike
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors
> 
> Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same
> spectrum in the same box?  I've thought about that but wondered if
> there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes
> another one listening.
> 
> 
> At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
>> Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall.  We aren't lucky enough to
>>> push
>> 3
>> meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your
>> customer
> base.
>> 
>> I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into
>> 2
>> 180
>> degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more
>> customers.  You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you
>>> just
>> do
>> 2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to
>> where
>> you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for
>> more
>> growth.  I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per
> sector.
>> I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I
>>> only
>> dole out 1mb per sub typically.  I've also been upgrading some of my
>> remote
>> AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omn

Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aidbroadbandstimulus.

[St. Louis Broadband]

> LOL  Yeah.  But look at what great apps they have!  Might as well have put

them on a Mc Donald's napkin for all the good they are.

True.  Hopefully in the next few weeks we will see the fodder fall to the
way side :-)
I know there are some 'truly' worthy projects.

V

-Original Message-
From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:o...@odessaoffice.com] 
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 9:52 AM
To: li...@stlbroadband.com; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to
aidbroadbandstimulus.


- Original Message - 
From: "St. Louis Broadband" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to 
aidbroadbandstimulus.


>> This is, in my not so humble opinion, a reasonable use for the data.
> LOL, you sir are the reason that we referred/used this data for our 
> pending
> grant application :-)
> I appreciate your 'forward' thinking.
>
> And BTW just for the record; the grant application was not as easy as
> "writing something down on a cocktail napkin"... ;-)
> To print our application out takes the better part of a ream of paper.

LOL  Yeah.  But look at what great apps they have!  Might as well have put 
them on a Mc Donald's napkin for all the good they are.

grin
marlon

>
>
> V
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:17 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid
> broadbandstimulus.
>
> This is only to the NTIA.  The government agency that's handling a lot of
> the stimulus grants.  How else will they be sure that an area doesn't
> already have coverage?
>
> This is, in my not so humble opinion, a reasonable use for the data.  It
> would have been better if the NTIA had asked the FCC if areas X,Y and Z
> already had coverage, but this is still OK.
>
> Now if they start handing it out to anyone that asks, that'll be an 
> entirely
>
> different program!
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "RickG" 
> To: ; "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid
> broadbandstimulus.
>
>
>>I knew this would happen. And thats only what they admit to.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Scottie Arnett 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <
>>>
>
http://blog.telephonyonline.com/unfiltered/2009/12/01/fcc-plans-to-turn-over
> -private-data-to-aid-broadband-stimulus/>
>>>
>>> Scottie
>>>
>>> Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as
>>> $30.00/mth.
>>> Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>

> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>>
>

> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>

> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>

> 
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>

> 
>
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Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

[Robert West]

Is thickness of the steel an issue or just the physical elements of it?
Could one, in a critical install, use an aluminum box but line the inside
with thin steel???

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of MDK
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 1:14 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

If I could find some at anything like a reasonable cost, I'd have that 
answer :)



--
From: "Josh Luthman" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:44 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

> Can you tell me where you get your steel boxes?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> --- Albert Einstein
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 12:41 AM, MDK  wrote:
>
>> Aluminum is moderately effective at attenuating microwave rf.
>>
>> Steel is needed to dampen EMP (from lightning strikes).
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Josh Luthman" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>>
>> > Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case?  Do you normally 
>> > use
>> > steel if not?
>> >
>> > I use these:
>> > http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp=
>> >
>> > Josh Luthman
>> > Office: 937-552-2340
>> > Direct: 937-552-2343
>> > 1100 Wayne St
>> > Suite 1337
>> > Troy, OH 45373
>> >
>> > "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
>> > --- Albert Einstein
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> I've given up on this.  There is just too much cross talk.  I put all
>> >> radios
>> >> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays.  I try to keep
>> >> them
>> >> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too.  Life is much much nicer.
>> >> marlon
>> >>
>> >> - Original Message -
>> >> From: "Mike" 
>> >> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM
>> >> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my
>> >> > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject.
>> >> >
>> >> > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea.  I do
>> >> > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been
>> >> > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case.
>> >> >
>> >> > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to
>> >> > create a sort of Faraday shield?  I know the XRx cards do a good job
>> >> > of shielding if you attach the pigtail.
>> >> >
>> >> > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards?  Has that been 
>> >> > an
>> >> > issue?  I think the XR cards have better specs.  Wouldn't having
>> >> > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too?
>> >> >
>> >> > Mike
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
>> >> >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the
>> >> >>box,
>> >> >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in
>> >> >>their
>> >> >>own
>> >> >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's 
>> >> >>to
>> >> >>a
>> >> >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away.
>> >>  That's
>> >> >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically.  Was an idea from 
>> >> >>someone
>> >> >>a
>> >> >>couple of months ago.  (I actually listen to you guys)  Had a 600a
>> >> >>doing
>> >> >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Bob-
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>-Original Message-
>> >> >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On
>> >> >>Behalf Of Mike
>> >> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM
>> >> >>To: WISPA General List
>> >> >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors
>> >> >>
>> >> >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same
>> >> >>spectrum in the same box?  I've thought about that but wondered if
>> >> >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes
>> >> >>another one listening.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
>> >> >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall.  We aren't lucky enough 
>> >> >> >to
>> >> push
>> >> >> >3
>> >> >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your
>> >> >> >customer
>> >> >>base.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it
>> into
>> >> >> >2
>> >> >> >180
>> >> >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few
>> more
>> >> >> >customers.  You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if 
>> >> >> >you
>> >> just
>> >> >> >

Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

[Robert West]

So my aluminum foil hat is just bogus  Man, I was wondering.  Now I
need to find some steel foil



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of MDK
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 12:41 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

Aluminum is moderately effective at attenuating microwave rf.

Steel is needed to dampen EMP (from lightning strikes).



--
From: "Josh Luthman" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

> Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case?  Do you normally use
> steel if not?
>
> I use these:
> http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp=
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> --- Albert Einstein
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer 
> wrote:
>
>> I've given up on this.  There is just too much cross talk.  I put all
>> radios
>> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays.  I try to keep 
>> them
>> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too.  Life is much much nicer.
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Mike" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM
>> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>>
>>
>> > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my
>> > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject.
>> >
>> > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea.  I do
>> > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been
>> > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case.
>> >
>> > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to
>> > create a sort of Faraday shield?  I know the XRx cards do a good job
>> > of shielding if you attach the pigtail.
>> >
>> > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards?  Has that been an
>> > issue?  I think the XR cards have better specs.  Wouldn't having
>> > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too?
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> >
>> > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
>> >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the 
>> >>box,
>> >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in 
>> >>their
>> >>own
>> >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to 
>> >>a
>> >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away.
>>  That's
>> >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically.  Was an idea from someone 
>> >>a
>> >>couple of months ago.  (I actually listen to you guys)  Had a 600a 
>> >>doing
>> >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking.
>> >>
>> >>Bob-
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>-Original Message-
>> >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> >>Behalf Of Mike
>> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM
>> >>To: WISPA General List
>> >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors
>> >>
>> >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same
>> >>spectrum in the same box?  I've thought about that but wondered if
>> >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes
>> >>another one listening.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
>> >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall.  We aren't lucky enough to
>> push
>> >> >3
>> >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your 
>> >> >customer
>> >>base.
>> >> >
>> >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into

>> >> >2
>> >> >180
>> >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more
>> >> >customers.  You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you
>> just
>> >> >do
>> >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to
>> >> >where
>> >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for 
>> >> >more
>> >> >growth.  I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per
>> >>sector.
>> >> >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I
>> only
>> >> >dole out 1mb per sub typically.  I've also been upgrading some of my
>> >> >remote
>> >> >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni.  The
>> >> >anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card 
>> >> >as
>> >> >needed to the point where I have 3 sectors.  Keeping the Omni of 
>> >> >course
>> >> >until the third sector is needed.  That's something someone already
>> >> >suggested doing and I like the economics of it.
>> >> >
>> >> >Bob-
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >-Original Message-
>> >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On
>> >> >Behalf Of Jason Hensley
>> >> >Sent: W

Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aidbroadbandstimulus.

[Marlon K. Schafer]

- Original Message - 
From: "St. Louis Broadband" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to 
aidbroadbandstimulus.


>> This is, in my not so humble opinion, a reasonable use for the data.
> LOL, you sir are the reason that we referred/used this data for our 
> pending
> grant application :-)
> I appreciate your 'forward' thinking.
>
> And BTW just for the record; the grant application was not as easy as
> "writing something down on a cocktail napkin"... ;-)
> To print our application out takes the better part of a ream of paper.

LOL  Yeah.  But look at what great apps they have!  Might as well have put 
them on a Mc Donald's napkin for all the good they are.

grin
marlon

>
>
> V
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:17 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid
> broadbandstimulus.
>
> This is only to the NTIA.  The government agency that's handling a lot of
> the stimulus grants.  How else will they be sure that an area doesn't
> already have coverage?
>
> This is, in my not so humble opinion, a reasonable use for the data.  It
> would have been better if the NTIA had asked the FCC if areas X,Y and Z
> already had coverage, but this is still OK.
>
> Now if they start handing it out to anyone that asks, that'll be an 
> entirely
>
> different program!
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "RickG" 
> To: ; "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid
> broadbandstimulus.
>
>
>>I knew this would happen. And thats only what they admit to.
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Scottie Arnett 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <
>>>
> http://blog.telephonyonline.com/unfiltered/2009/12/01/fcc-plans-to-turn-over
> -private-data-to-aid-broadband-stimulus/>
>>>
>>> Scottie
>>>
>>> Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as
>>> $30.00/mth.
>>> Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> 
> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>>
> 
> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
> 
> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

[Josh Luthman]

More along the lines of plastic enclosures versus metal enclosures.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
--- Albert Einstein


On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Robert West wrote:

> Plastic next to the antennas???  CRAZY!  So the radios pretty much talk to
> themselves a lot, huh.  Hearing voices in their heads.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jayson Baker
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:36 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>
> I have to laugh at one of our competitors who uses PLASTIC enclosures next
> to their antennas on the tower.  Even on the most RF-jam packed sites.  One
> site in particular you can almost get a fluorescent light to glow just
> holding it in your hands.  And there they are with their plastic
> enclosures.  And can't figure out why their system sucks ass.
>
> Oh well.  They burned us for over $100k in consulting fees and equipment.
> It makes me laugh everytime I see it.
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer
> wrote:
>
> > I've given up on this.  There is just too much cross talk.  I put all
> > radios
> > in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays.  I try to keep
> them
> > at least 3 or 6 feet apart too.  Life is much much nicer.
> > marlon
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Mike" 
> > To: "WISPA General List" 
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM
> > Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
> >
> >
> > > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my
> > > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject.
> > >
> > > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea.  I do
> > > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been
> > > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case.
> > >
> > > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to
> > > create a sort of Faraday shield?  I know the XRx cards do a good job
> > > of shielding if you attach the pigtail.
> > >
> > > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards?  Has that been an
> > > issue?  I think the XR cards have better specs.  Wouldn't having
> > > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
> > >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the
> box,
> > >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in
> their
> > >>own
> > >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to
> a
> > >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away.
> >  That's
> > >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically.  Was an idea from someone
> a
> > >>couple of months ago.  (I actually listen to you guys)  Had a 600a
> doing
> > >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking.
> > >>
> > >>Bob-
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>-Original Message-
> > >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> > >>Behalf Of Mike
> > >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM
> > >>To: WISPA General List
> > >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors
> > >>
> > >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same
> > >>spectrum in the same box?  I've thought about that but wondered if
> > >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes
> > >>another one listening.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
> > >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall.  We aren't lucky enough to
> > push
> > >> >3
> > >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your
> customer
> > >>base.
> > >> >
> > >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into
> 2
> > >> >180
> > >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more
> > >> >customers.  You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you
> > just
> > >> >do
> > >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to
> > >> >where
> > >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for
> more
> > >> >growth.  I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per
> > >>sector.
> > >> >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I
> > only
> > >> >dole out 1mb per sub typically.  I've also been upgrading some of my
> > >> >remote
> > >> >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni.  The
> > >> >anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card
> as
> > >> >needed to the point where I have 3 sectors.  Keeping the Omni of
> course
> > >> >until the third sector is needed.  That's something someone already
> > >> >suggested doing and I like the economics of it.
> > >> >
> > >> >Bob-
> > >> >
> > >> 

Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

[Robert West]

Plastic next to the antennas???  CRAZY!  So the radios pretty much talk to
themselves a lot, huh.  Hearing voices in their heads.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jayson Baker
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 10:36 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

I have to laugh at one of our competitors who uses PLASTIC enclosures next
to their antennas on the tower.  Even on the most RF-jam packed sites.  One
site in particular you can almost get a fluorescent light to glow just
holding it in your hands.  And there they are with their plastic
enclosures.  And can't figure out why their system sucks ass.

Oh well.  They burned us for over $100k in consulting fees and equipment.
It makes me laugh everytime I see it.

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer
wrote:

> I've given up on this.  There is just too much cross talk.  I put all
> radios
> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays.  I try to keep
them
> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too.  Life is much much nicer.
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mike" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>
>
> > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my
> > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject.
> >
> > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea.  I do
> > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been
> > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case.
> >
> > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to
> > create a sort of Faraday shield?  I know the XRx cards do a good job
> > of shielding if you attach the pigtail.
> >
> > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards?  Has that been an
> > issue?  I think the XR cards have better specs.  Wouldn't having
> > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
> >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the
box,
> >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in their
> >>own
> >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to a
> >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away.
>  That's
> >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically.  Was an idea from someone a
> >>couple of months ago.  (I actually listen to you guys)  Had a 600a doing
> >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking.
> >>
> >>Bob-
> >>
> >>
> >>-Original Message-
> >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >>Behalf Of Mike
> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM
> >>To: WISPA General List
> >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors
> >>
> >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same
> >>spectrum in the same box?  I've thought about that but wondered if
> >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes
> >>another one listening.
> >>
> >>
> >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
> >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall.  We aren't lucky enough to
> push
> >> >3
> >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your customer
> >>base.
> >> >
> >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into
2
> >> >180
> >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more
> >> >customers.  You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you
> just
> >> >do
> >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to
> >> >where
> >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for more
> >> >growth.  I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per
> >>sector.
> >> >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I
> only
> >> >dole out 1mb per sub typically.  I've also been upgrading some of my
> >> >remote
> >> >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni.  The
> >> >anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card
as
> >> >needed to the point where I have 3 sectors.  Keeping the Omni of
course
> >> >until the third sector is needed.  That's something someone already
> >> >suggested doing and I like the economics of it.
> >> >
> >> >Bob-
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >-Original Message-
> >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> >> >Behalf Of Jason Hensley
> >> >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:26 AM
> >> >To: 'WISPA General List'
> >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors
> >> >
> >> >Max 3meg - b only mode on this particular AP.  Most are still able to
> >> >get
> >> >that, but we're seeing a decline on how many can pull 3meg.  At peak
> >> >times,
> >> >we've seen it to where users aren't able to get much over 1meg, but
> >> >that's
> >> >not ha

Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid broadbandstimulus.

[St. Louis Broadband]

> This is, in my not so humble opinion, a reasonable use for the data.  
LOL, you sir are the reason that we referred/used this data for our pending
grant application :-)
I appreciate your 'forward' thinking.

And BTW just for the record; the grant application was not as easy as
"writing something down on a cocktail napkin"... ;-)
To print our application out takes the better part of a ream of paper.


V


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:17 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid
broadbandstimulus.

This is only to the NTIA.  The government agency that's handling a lot of 
the stimulus grants.  How else will they be sure that an area doesn't 
already have coverage?

This is, in my not so humble opinion, a reasonable use for the data.  It 
would have been better if the NTIA had asked the FCC if areas X,Y and Z 
already had coverage, but this is still OK.

Now if they start handing it out to anyone that asks, that'll be an entirely

different program!
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "RickG" 
To: ; "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid 
broadbandstimulus.


>I knew this would happen. And thats only what they admit to.
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Scottie Arnett  
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> <
>>
http://blog.telephonyonline.com/unfiltered/2009/12/01/fcc-plans-to-turn-over
-private-data-to-aid-broadband-stimulus/>
>>
>> Scottie
>>
>> Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as
>> $30.00/mth.
>> Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information.
>>
>>
>>
>>


>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>>


>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Those look like they have a lot of junk sticking out where you'd need to 
weather proof connectors.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Josh Luthman" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure


> Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case?  Do you normally use
> steel if not?
>
> I use these:
> http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp=
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> --- Albert Einstein
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer 
> wrote:
>
>> I've given up on this.  There is just too much cross talk.  I put all
>> radios
>> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays.  I try to keep 
>> them
>> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too.  Life is much much nicer.
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Mike" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM
>> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>>
>>
>> > Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my
>> > messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject.
>> >
>> > I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea.  I do
>> > have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been
>> > afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case.
>> >
>> > The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to
>> > create a sort of Faraday shield?  I know the XRx cards do a good job
>> > of shielding if you attach the pigtail.
>> >
>> > How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards?  Has that been an
>> > issue?  I think the XR cards have better specs.  Wouldn't having
>> > multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too?
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> >
>> > At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
>> >>Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the 
>> >>box,
>> >>the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in 
>> >>their
>> >>own
>> >>box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to 
>> >>a
>> >>central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away.
>>  That's
>> >>one that I'm doing just to do it, basically.  Was an idea from someone 
>> >>a
>> >>couple of months ago.  (I actually listen to you guys)  Had a 600a 
>> >>doing
>> >>nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking.
>> >>
>> >>Bob-
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>-Original Message-
>> >>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> >>Behalf Of Mike
>> >>Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM
>> >>To: WISPA General List
>> >>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors
>> >>
>> >>Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same
>> >>spectrum in the same box?  I've thought about that but wondered if
>> >>there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes
>> >>another one listening.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
>> >> >Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall.  We aren't lucky enough to
>> push
>> >> >3
>> >> >meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your 
>> >> >customer
>> >>base.
>> >> >
>> >> >I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 
>> >> >2
>> >> >180
>> >> >degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more
>> >> >customers.  You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you
>> just
>> >> >do
>> >> >2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to
>> >> >where
>> >> >you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for 
>> >> >more
>> >> >growth.  I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per
>> >>sector.
>> >> >I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I
>> only
>> >> >dole out 1mb per sub typically.  I've also been upgrading some of my
>> >> >remote
>> >> >AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni.  The
>> >> >anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card 
>> >> >as
>> >> >needed to the point where I have 3 sectors.  Keeping the Omni of 
>> >> >course
>> >> >until the third sector is needed.  That's something someone already
>> >> >suggested doing and I like the economics of it.
>> >> >
>> >> >Bob-
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >-Original Message-
>> >> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> On
>> >> >Behalf Of Jason Hensley
>> >> >Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:26 AM
>> >> >To: 'WISPA General List'
>> >> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors
>> >> >
>> >> >Max 3meg - b only mode on this particular AP.  Most are still able to
>> >> >get
>> >> >that, but we're seeing a decline on how many can pull 3meg.  At peak
>> >> >times,
>> >> >we've seen it to where users aren't able to get much over 1meg, but
>> >> >that's
>> >> >not ha

Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid broadbandstimulus.

[Marlon K. Schafer]

This is only to the NTIA.  The government agency that's handling a lot of 
the stimulus grants.  How else will they be sure that an area doesn't 
already have coverage?

This is, in my not so humble opinion, a reasonable use for the data.  It 
would have been better if the NTIA had asked the FCC if areas X,Y and Z 
already had coverage, but this is still OK.

Now if they start handing it out to anyone that asks, that'll be an entirely 
different program!
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "RickG" 
To: ; "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FCC plans to turn over private data to aid 
broadbandstimulus.


>I knew this would happen. And thats only what they admit to.
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Scottie Arnett  
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> <
>> http://blog.telephonyonline.com/unfiltered/2009/12/01/fcc-plans-to-turn-over-private-data-to-aid-broadband-stimulus/>
>>
>> Scottie
>>
>> Wireless High Speed Broadband service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as
>> $30.00/mth.
>> Check out www.info-ed.com/wireless.html for information.
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
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Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure

[os10rules]

I had not heard that different metals are more or less effective at RF 
shielding at higher frequencies. I had heard of Mu metal that's used in audio 
recording studios to specifically block 60Hz hum. 

I tried to find info about what attenuation different materials offer and all I 
could find was this: http://www.ramayes.com/EMI_RF_Foil_Shielding.htm  
According to them the shielding (up to 10GHz) is about the same for the 
different materials.

I know all the amps and splitters the cable company uses up on their poles are 
aluminum.

Greg

On Dec 3, 2009, at 12:41 AM, MDK wrote:

> Aluminum is moderately effective at attenuating microwave rf.
> 
> Steel is needed to dampen EMP (from lightning strikes).
> 
> 
> 
> --
> From: "Josh Luthman" 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:35 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
> 
>> Does die cast aluminum count as metal in this case?  Do you normally use
>> steel if not?
>> 
>> I use these:
>> http://quicklinkwireless.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=DCE-H-LG-2&eq=&Tp=
>> 
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
>> --- Albert Einstein
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Marlon K. Schafer 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I've given up on this.  There is just too much cross talk.  I put all
>>> radios
>>> in the same band in their own METAL enclosure nowadays.  I try to keep 
>>> them
>>> at least 3 or 6 feet apart too.  Life is much much nicer.
>>> marlon
>>> 
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Mike" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 8:13 AM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Multiple Radio cards in an enclosure
>>> 
>>> 
 Since I am probably one of the veterans called out yesterday for my
 messaging etiquette, I am changing the subject.
 
 I am interested in the multiple radios in an enclosure idea.  I do
 have a couple with 5.8 and 2.4 gear in the same box, but have been
 afraid to put cards in the same band in the same case.
 
 The foil spacer you put between cards Bob, do you then ground it to
 create a sort of Faraday shield?  I know the XRx cards do a good job
 of shielding if you attach the pigtail.
 
 How about the receive sensitivity on the 411 cards?  Has that been an
 issue?  I think the XR cards have better specs.  Wouldn't having
 multiple 411 cards in the same box possibly have desense issues too?
 
 Mike
 
 
 At 09:41 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
> Forgot to add, if you're concerned with any RF collisions inside the 
> box,
> the other thing I talked about earlier, having just 3 411 cards in 
> their
> own
> box at the sector then running Cat5 to transparent bridge the 411's to 
> a
> central RouterOS device would take any of that issue totally away.
>>> That's
> one that I'm doing just to do it, basically.  Was an idea from someone 
> a
> couple of months ago.  (I actually listen to you guys)  Had a 600a 
> doing
> nothing and some 411 cards "so why not play?" was my thinking.
> 
> Bob-
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 9:48 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Sectors
> 
> Have you had any issues with putting 3 radio cards in the same
> spectrum in the same box?  I've thought about that but wondered if
> there would be desense issues where one transmitting desensitizes
> another one listening.
> 
> 
> At 08:38 AM 12/2/2009, you wrote:
>> Yep, looks like you're hitting the wall.  We aren't lucky enough to
>>> push
>> 3
>> meg here, the most is usually 1 so again, all depends on your 
>> customer
> base.
>> 
>> I'd say if you already have 35 on that one AP, just splitting it into 
>> 2
>> 180
>> degree sectors will just cost you cash as soon as you gain a few more
>> customers.  You already have 35 pulling it down, sounds like if you
>>> just
>> do
>> 2 180's, if split evenly (and it never will be) that would put you to
>> where
>> you probably want to be for smooth delivery but not much room for 
>> more
>> growth.  I'd go with 3 120's and a 433AH with 3 cards on it, one per
> sector.
>> I have a few like that and it works fine for what I do but again, I
>>> only
>> dole out 1mb per sub typically.  I've also been upgrading some of my
>> remote
>> AP's to one 433AH with only one radio installed and an Omni.  The
>> anticipated upgrade path is to just add a sector or 2 and radio card 
>> as
>> needed to the point where I have 3 sectors.  Keeping the Omni of 
>> co