Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear - licensed bands btw
Many of those licenses had serious restrictions, which is why the auction reverse was so low in the first place. -Matt On Dec 31, 2009, at 1:24 AM, Charles Wu wrote: Speaking of which, did anyone notice the results of the latest BRS Auction (#86) Licenses went for an average of $0.03 / MHz POP That means if 60 MHz covering 100,000 people (as defined by Census 2000 numbers) would have gone for $180k -- with the small business 35% credit - that means a WISP would've paid $117k for that spectrum While $117k is nothing to sneeze at, it's just worth noting that getting a license is not something unreasonable or unobtainable for the small guy -Charles WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Wimax gear
Ubiquiti's move into the large scale market, whether it will work or not, is just happening now with AirMax. It slows the overall performance to much less than 150+ Mbps, but it might get to the 100/user per-AP scale. 3 or 6 months from now we will know of either large deployments or #ubntfail stories. Rubens -- Forwarded message -- From: Charles Wu c...@cticonnect.com Date: Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 2:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Let's go back to the original thread -- we were talking about how Ubiquiti was changing the game with their new $75 AP that does 150 Mb or something (as compared to the Alvarion/Motorolas/WiMAX guys of the world who still don't get it with their $3/5/10k APs) -- up until now, it's been my experience that this is an apples to oranges debate (heck, couldn't I make the same argument that belkin or dlink has had a super-N mimo AP for $69 at Best Buy for some time now?) That being said, if someone has built such a system, please pipe up and share your experiences -- I'm always interested in learning how to do things better/faster/cheaper... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth limitation enforcement
I have used softperfect bandwidth management tool, just took an old server and loaded it up. Works great for us, it is serving approx. 400 college students in one complex. Also looked at using monowall, have a server built, but have not put it in production, during testing it worked just fine as well... Aerowire Alan Long Director of Network Operations alan.l...@aerowire.net 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 tel: 3342759998 mobile: 336092 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ugo Bellavance Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 3:19 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Bandwidth limitation enforcement Hi, We are currently looking at a way to make sure the bandwidth is allocates more fairly amongst our (~300) users. We have a 60mbps pipe from our ISP, but some wise ones are dowloading like crazy, and enabling traffic shaping on the firewall is just of little help. What are you guys using for bandwidth limiting (example: max 7mbps per MAC or IP address) and for policy enforcement: 30GB/month dl, extra gig is x cents. Thanks in advance. Ugo WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.123/2594 - Release Date: 12/30/09 01:27:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
Let me throw a couple devil's advocate arguments into the mix. The claim was made that the advantage of Motorola is that you can get 100 subs per AP, while a Mikrotik or UBNT solution might get 30-40. Based on these assumptions, could the argument not be made that a year from now, a 100-subscriber Motorola AP with 14 megabit total capacity will be much more over-utilized than a Mikrotik 14meg solution with only 30-40 subscribers? I'm seeing this already on older Trango AP's with 70-80 subscribers. 10meg at 80 subscribers is just too much oversubscription with today's usage patterns. Then you can also look at the fact that the mikrotik can do the 14 meg in 10mhz bands, adding more efficiency (yes, gps sync helps even more, I know!). Then you look at a UBNT offering with, let's say 50 megabit in 20mhz with just 40 subscribers. You may get more life and get further along the growth curve with UBNT. Will it really scale to even 40? Dunno.. Sure would like to hear of real world experience, but that will obviously take time. Randy On 12/31/2009 7:48 AM, Rubens Kuhl wrote: Ubiquiti's move into the large scale market, whether it will work or not, is just happening now with AirMax. It slows the overall performance to much less than 150+ Mbps, but it might get to the 100/user per-AP scale. 3 or 6 months from now we will know of either large deployments or #ubntfail stories. Rubens -- Forwarded message -- From: Charles Wuc...@cticonnect.com Date: Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 2:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Let's go back to the original thread -- we were talking about how Ubiquiti was changing the game with their new $75 AP that does 150 Mb or something (as compared to the Alvarion/Motorolas/WiMAX guys of the world who still don't get it with their $3/5/10k APs) -- up until now, it's been my experience that this is an apples to oranges debate (heck, couldn't I make the same argument that belkin or dlink has had a super-N mimo AP for $69 at Best Buy for some time now?) That being said, if someone has built such a system, please pipe up and share your experiences -- I'm always interested in learning how to do things better/faster/cheaper... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
We've just built out a new tower with Ubiquity M's in 2.4 w/airmax, we will be doing voice across it. We've been using the M's as client radios for several months the firmware is at a good base right now I think. Once we advertise this tower to our dialup base we will quickly test the scalability. We've been extremely happy with the pre-airmax gear, low failure rate, nice config/featureset, solid OS, tremendous support/customer interaction, not to mention the excellent ROI. This is great for rural, but we want to move into some of the cities in our area that is why we are looking at Wimax. Ubiquity doesn't play in 3.65 yet and it won't for a while and we need to move quickly, leasing loops from the LEC's is killing our wireline profit. Regards Michael Baird Ubiquiti's move into the large scale market, whether it will work or not, is just happening now with AirMax. It slows the overall performance to much less than 150+ Mbps, but it might get to the 100/user per-AP scale. 3 or 6 months from now we will know of either large deployments or #ubntfail stories. Rubens -- Forwarded message -- From: Charles Wu c...@cticonnect.com Date: Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 2:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Let's go back to the original thread -- we were talking about how Ubiquiti was changing the game with their new $75 AP that does 150 Mb or something (as compared to the Alvarion/Motorolas/WiMAX guys of the world who still don't get it with their $3/5/10k APs) -- up until now, it's been my experience that this is an apples to oranges debate (heck, couldn't I make the same argument that belkin or dlink has had a super-N mimo AP for $69 at Best Buy for some time now?) That being said, if someone has built such a system, please pipe up and share your experiences -- I'm always interested in learning how to do things better/faster/cheaper... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
My most populated UBNT has 43 people on it (too much), RTS 768 on each client radio, the CPU utilization averages 32%, peak of 68%, no complaints of performance. Our AP's do very little however no routing/no nat/no auth, traffic shaping/auth is done at the IP level on the redback. I plan to swap the radios out at this tower for BulletM series radios in non-airmax mode as they have 3 times the CPU horsepower, and I should be able to get close to 100 per sector on my legacy towers I believe. Regards Michael Baird Let me throw a couple devil's advocate arguments into the mix. The claim was made that the advantage of Motorola is that you can get 100 subs per AP, while a Mikrotik or UBNT solution might get 30-40. Based on these assumptions, could the argument not be made that a year from now, a 100-subscriber Motorola AP with 14 megabit total capacity will be much more over-utilized than a Mikrotik 14meg solution with only 30-40 subscribers? I'm seeing this already on older Trango AP's with 70-80 subscribers. 10meg at 80 subscribers is just too much oversubscription with today's usage patterns. Then you can also look at the fact that the mikrotik can do the 14 meg in 10mhz bands, adding more efficiency (yes, gps sync helps even more, I know!). Then you look at a UBNT offering with, let's say 50 megabit in 20mhz with just 40 subscribers. You may get more life and get further along the growth curve with UBNT. Will it really scale to even 40? Dunno.. Sure would like to hear of real world experience, but that will obviously take time. Randy On 12/31/2009 7:48 AM, Rubens Kuhl wrote: Ubiquiti's move into the large scale market, whether it will work or not, is just happening now with AirMax. It slows the overall performance to much less than 150+ Mbps, but it might get to the 100/user per-AP scale. 3 or 6 months from now we will know of either large deployments or #ubntfail stories. Rubens -- Forwarded message -- From: Charles Wuc...@cticonnect.com Date: Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 2:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Let's go back to the original thread -- we were talking about how Ubiquiti was changing the game with their new $75 AP that does 150 Mb or something (as compared to the Alvarion/Motorolas/WiMAX guys of the world who still don't get it with their $3/5/10k APs) -- up until now, it's been my experience that this is an apples to oranges debate (heck, couldn't I make the same argument that belkin or dlink has had a super-N mimo AP for $69 at Best Buy for some time now?) That being said, if someone has built such a system, please pipe up and share your experiences -- I'm always interested in learning how to do things better/faster/cheaper... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth limitation enforcement
I didn't get many google hits for superperfect. I couldn't even find the author's web site. Do you have it? On Dec 31, 2009, at 9:53 AM, Alan Long wrote: I have used softperfect bandwidth management tool, just took an old server and loaded it up. Works great for us, it is serving approx. 400 college students in one complex. Also looked at using monowall, have a server built, but have not put it in production, during testing it worked just fine as well... Aerowire Alan Long Director of Network Operations alan.l...@aerowire.net 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 tel: 3342759998 mobile: 336092 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ugo Bellavance Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 3:19 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Bandwidth limitation enforcement Hi, We are currently looking at a way to make sure the bandwidth is allocates more fairly amongst our (~300) users. We have a 60mbps pipe from our ISP, but some wise ones are dowloading like crazy, and enabling traffic shaping on the firewall is just of little help. What are you guys using for bandwidth limiting (example: max 7mbps per MAC or IP address) and for policy enforcement: 30GB/month dl, extra gig is x cents. Thanks in advance. Ugo WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.123/2594 - Release Date: 12/30/09 01:27:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
I know that in some cases it's appropriate and I've said this every time this discussion comes up, but running this holy grail of 100 customers per AP is just rubbish and will become more rubbish as time goes on. These lists alternate between the same two threads almost indefinitely. One is that everything but Canopy is horrible, while the other is that we don't have enough bandwidth to provide current, much less next-generation services. Low bandwidth wireless systems will not work with these 100 users per AP as NetFlix and similar services increase adoption. Wireless systems will have to support hundreds of megabits per second if we're going to have 100 users on an AP, not the 40 the latest and greatest Canopy supports. If UBNT can only do 40 customers out of it's 100 megabit PtMP AirMax system, great! When people fire up their 5 meg HD NetFlix streams, everything still works. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Rubens Kuhl rube...@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 8:48 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Wimax gear Ubiquiti's move into the large scale market, whether it will work or not, is just happening now with AirMax. It slows the overall performance to much less than 150+ Mbps, but it might get to the 100/user per-AP scale. 3 or 6 months from now we will know of either large deployments or #ubntfail stories. Rubens -- Forwarded message -- From: Charles Wu c...@cticonnect.com Date: Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 2:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Let's go back to the original thread -- we were talking about how Ubiquiti was changing the game with their new $75 AP that does 150 Mb or something (as compared to the Alvarion/Motorolas/WiMAX guys of the world who still don't get it with their $3/5/10k APs) -- up until now, it's been my experience that this is an apples to oranges debate (heck, couldn't I make the same argument that belkin or dlink has had a super-N mimo AP for $69 at Best Buy for some time now?) That being said, if someone has built such a system, please pipe up and share your experiences -- I'm always interested in learning how to do things better/faster/cheaper... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth limitation enforcement
http://softperfect.com/products/bandwidth/ Aerowire Alan Long Director of Network Operations alan.l...@aerowire.net 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 tel: 3342759998 mobile: 336092 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Greg Ihnen Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 10:03 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth limitation enforcement I didn't get many google hits for superperfect. I couldn't even find the author's web site. Do you have it? On Dec 31, 2009, at 9:53 AM, Alan Long wrote: I have used softperfect bandwidth management tool, just took an old server and loaded it up. Works great for us, it is serving approx. 400 college students in one complex. Also looked at using monowall, have a server built, but have not put it in production, during testing it worked just fine as well... Aerowire Alan Long Director of Network Operations alan.l...@aerowire.net 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 tel: 3342759998 mobile: 336092 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ugo Bellavance Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 3:19 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Bandwidth limitation enforcement Hi, We are currently looking at a way to make sure the bandwidth is allocates more fairly amongst our (~300) users. We have a 60mbps pipe from our ISP, but some wise ones are dowloading like crazy, and enabling traffic shaping on the firewall is just of little help. What are you guys using for bandwidth limiting (example: max 7mbps per MAC or IP address) and for policy enforcement: 30GB/month dl, extra gig is x cents. Thanks in advance. Ugo WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.123/2594 - Release Date: 12/30/09 01:27:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.123/2594 - Release Date: 12/31/09 02:52:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
You need to take in consideration that the Ubnt AirMax true data thoughtput is about 70 Mbps in highest modulation and under very low noise scenario. Now take on consideration that it uses dual pol to achieve this so you limit your colocation options Taking that in account, expect 30 to 50 Mbps In a true field deployment under average noise conditions And you can only colocate 3 or 4 aps per site, then try to growth your footprint Compare that to the Canopy 430 line with 45 Mbps per ap with gps sync and A very broad channel reuse facility Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 31, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com wrote: Let me throw a couple devil's advocate arguments into the mix. The claim was made that the advantage of Motorola is that you can get 100 subs per AP, while a Mikrotik or UBNT solution might get 30-40. Based on these assumptions, could the argument not be made that a year from now, a 100-subscriber Motorola AP with 14 megabit total capacity will be much more over-utilized than a Mikrotik 14meg solution with only 30-40 subscribers? I'm seeing this already on older Trango AP's with 70-80 subscribers. 10meg at 80 subscribers is just too much oversubscription with today's usage patterns. Then you can also look at the fact that the mikrotik can do the 14 meg in 10mhz bands, adding more efficiency (yes, gps sync helps even more, I know!). Then you look at a UBNT offering with, let's say 50 megabit in 20mhz with just 40 subscribers. You may get more life and get further along the growth curve with UBNT. Will it really scale to even 40? Dunno.. Sure would like to hear of real world experience, but that will obviously take time. Randy On 12/31/2009 7:48 AM, Rubens Kuhl wrote: Ubiquiti's move into the large scale market, whether it will work or not, is just happening now with AirMax. It slows the overall performance to much less than 150+ Mbps, but it might get to the 100/user per-AP scale. 3 or 6 months from now we will know of either large deployments or #ubntfail stories. Rubens -- Forwarded message -- From: Charles Wuc...@cticonnect.com Date: Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 2:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Let's go back to the original thread -- we were talking about how Ubiquiti was changing the game with their new $75 AP that does 150 Mb or something (as compared to the Alvarion/Motorolas/WiMAX guys of the world who still don't get it with their $3/5/10k APs) -- up until now, it's been my experience that this is an apples to oranges debate (heck, couldn't I make the same argument that belkin or dlink has had a super-N mimo AP for $69 at Best Buy for some time now?) That being said, if someone has built such a system, please pipe up and share your experiences -- I'm always interested in learning how to do things better/faster/cheaper... --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
Gino Villarini wrote: You need to take in consideration that the Ubnt AirMax true data thoughtput is about 70 Mbps in highest modulation and under very low noise scenario Ok, well that's probably a good estimate w/20 mhz channel width. Now take on consideration that it uses dual pol to achieve this so you limit your colocation options Not sure what difference this makes, uses the same amount of frequency and both polls are in the same antenna. Taking that in account, expect 30 to 50 Mbps In a true field deployment under average noise conditions Ok, what is wrong with that, sounds great. And you can only colocate 3 or 4 aps per site, then try to growth your footprint Why? There is no difference in colocation with Airmax vs. non-airmax, do you think each chain needs it's own channel or something? They don't. Compare that to the Canopy 430 line with 45 Mbps per ap with gps sync and A very broad channel reuse facility Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 31, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com wrote: Let me throw a couple devil's advocate arguments into the mix. The claim was made that the advantage of Motorola is that you can get 100 subs per AP, while a Mikrotik or UBNT solution might get 30-40. Based on these assumptions, could the argument not be made that a year from now, a 100-subscriber Motorola AP with 14 megabit total capacity will be much more over-utilized than a Mikrotik 14meg solution with only 30-40 subscribers? I'm seeing this already on older Trango AP's with 70-80 subscribers. 10meg at 80 subscribers is just too much oversubscription with today's usage patterns. Then you can also look at the fact that the mikrotik can do the 14 meg in 10mhz bands, adding more efficiency (yes, gps sync helps even more, I know!). Then you look at a UBNT offering with, let's say 50 megabit in 20mhz with just 40 subscribers. You may get more life and get further along the growth curve with UBNT. Will it really scale to even 40? Dunno.. Sure would like to hear of real world experience, but that will obviously take time. Randy On 12/31/2009 7:48 AM, Rubens Kuhl wrote: Ubiquiti's move into the large scale market, whether it will work or not, is just happening now with AirMax. It slows the overall performance to much less than 150+ Mbps, but it might get to the 100/user per-AP scale. 3 or 6 months from now we will know of either large deployments or #ubntfail stories. Rubens -- Forwarded message -- From: Charles Wuc...@cticonnect.com Date: Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 2:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Let's go back to the original thread -- we were talking about how Ubiquiti was changing the game with their new $75 AP that does 150 Mb or something (as compared to the Alvarion/Motorolas/WiMAX guys of the world who still don't get it with their $3/5/10k APs) -- up until now, it's been my experience that this is an apples to oranges debate (heck, couldn't I make the same argument that belkin or dlink has had a super-N mimo AP for $69 at Best Buy for some time now?) That being said, if someone has built such a system, please pipe up and share your experiences -- I'm always interested in learning how to do things better/faster/cheaper... --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Randy Cosby Vice President InfoWest, Inc 435-674-0165 x 2010 http://www.infowest.com/ Letting off steam always produces more heat than light. - Neal A. Maxwell --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear
Not sure what difference this makes, uses the same amount of frequency and both polls are in the same antenna. You probability of finding clean spectrum on both polarities drops and your collocation options using cross polarity and channel separation drops too Why? There is no difference in colocation with Airmax vs. non-airmax, do you think each chain needs it's own channel or something? They don't. I do know they don't need diff channels, but as stated above, you are very limited on channel selections, and finding the right channel on sector A, means that you limit yourself on sector B, C and D. (thinking you are using 4 sectors per site) Then extrapolate that to 4 to 6 adjacent tower sites and youll be dancing the channel change tune for a while. What happens inf 6 months down the road a Tsunami PTP Link kills 2 of your channels on 1 Tower Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 1:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear Gino Villarini wrote: You need to take in consideration that the Ubnt AirMax true data thoughtput is about 70 Mbps in highest modulation and under very low noise scenario Ok, well that's probably a good estimate w/20 mhz channel width. Now take on consideration that it uses dual pol to achieve this so you limit your colocation options Not sure what difference this makes, uses the same amount of frequency and both polls are in the same antenna. Taking that in account, expect 30 to 50 Mbps In a true field deployment under average noise conditions Ok, what is wrong with that, sounds great. And you can only colocate 3 or 4 aps per site, then try to growth your footprint Why? There is no difference in colocation with Airmax vs. non-airmax, do you think each chain needs it's own channel or something? They don't. Compare that to the Canopy 430 line with 45 Mbps per ap with gps sync and A very broad channel reuse facility Sent from my Motorola Startac... On Dec 31, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com wrote: Let me throw a couple devil's advocate arguments into the mix. The claim was made that the advantage of Motorola is that you can get 100 subs per AP, while a Mikrotik or UBNT solution might get 30-40. Based on these assumptions, could the argument not be made that a year from now, a 100-subscriber Motorola AP with 14 megabit total capacity will be much more over-utilized than a Mikrotik 14meg solution with only 30-40 subscribers? I'm seeing this already on older Trango AP's with 70-80 subscribers. 10meg at 80 subscribers is just too much oversubscription with today's usage patterns. Then you can also look at the fact that the mikrotik can do the 14 meg in 10mhz bands, adding more efficiency (yes, gps sync helps even more, I know!). Then you look at a UBNT offering with, let's say 50 megabit in 20mhz with just 40 subscribers. You may get more life and get further along the growth curve with UBNT. Will it really scale to even 40? Dunno.. Sure would like to hear of real world experience, but that will obviously take time. Randy On 12/31/2009 7:48 AM, Rubens Kuhl wrote: Ubiquiti's move into the large scale market, whether it will work or not, is just happening now with AirMax. It slows the overall performance to much less than 150+ Mbps, but it might get to the 100/user per-AP scale. 3 or 6 months from now we will know of either large deployments or #ubntfail stories. Rubens -- Forwarded message -- From: Charles Wuc...@cticonnect.com Date: Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 2:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax gear To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Let's go back to the original thread -- we were talking about how Ubiquiti was changing the game with their new $75 AP that does 150 Mb or something (as compared to the Alvarion/Motorolas/WiMAX guys of the world who still don't get it with their $3/5/10k APs) -- up until now, it's been my experience that this is an apples to oranges debate (heck, couldn't I make the same argument that belkin or dlink has had a super-N mimo AP for $69 at Best Buy for some time now?) That being said, if someone has built such a system, please pipe up and share your experiences -- I'm always interested in learning how to do things better/faster/cheaper... --- --- --- --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --- --- --- --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Randy
Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth limitation enforcement
On Wed, 2009-12-30 at 16:19 -0500, Ugo Bellavance wrote: We are currently looking at a way to make sure the bandwidth is allocates more fairly amongst our (~300) users. We have a 60mbps pipe from our ISP, but some wise ones are dowloading like crazy, and enabling traffic shaping on the firewall is just of little help. What are you guys using for bandwidth limiting (example: max 7mbps per MAC or IP address) and for policy enforcement: 30GB/month dl, extra gig is x cents. If you're using Mikrotik in the network, I can help. I am working on a similar solution using Linux. You can read about this here: http://blog.butchevans.com/2009/11/140/ This solution is similar to NetEqualizer and NetEnforcer type devices. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth limitation enforcement
I police via radius attributes to my redback, how are you handling network access/termination? Regards Michael Baird On Wed, 2009-12-30 at 16:19 -0500, Ugo Bellavance wrote: We are currently looking at a way to make sure the bandwidth is allocates more fairly amongst our (~300) users. We have a 60mbps pipe from our ISP, but some wise ones are dowloading like crazy, and enabling traffic shaping on the firewall is just of little help. What are you guys using for bandwidth limiting (example: max 7mbps per MAC or IP address) and for policy enforcement: 30GB/month dl, extra gig is x cents. If you're using Mikrotik in the network, I can help. I am working on a similar solution using Linux. You can read about this here: http://blog.butchevans.com/2009/11/140/ This solution is similar to NetEqualizer and NetEnforcer type devices. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth limitation enforcement
On Thu, 2009-12-31 at 13:50 -0500, Michael Baird wrote: I police via radius attributes to my redback, how are you handling network access/termination? This is not intended to be a system like that. It is a QOS system only. The access/termination features of systems like NetEqualizer/NetEnforcer and other such systems are possible in Mikrotik, but the QOS system mentioned in the blog article does not do that part. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth limitation enforcement
Thanks! On Dec 31, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Alan Long wrote: http://softperfect.com/products/bandwidth/ Aerowire Alan Long Director of Network Operations alan.l...@aerowire.net 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 tel: 3342759998 mobile: 336092 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Greg Ihnen Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 10:03 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Bandwidth limitation enforcement I didn't get many google hits for superperfect. I couldn't even find the author's web site. Do you have it? On Dec 31, 2009, at 9:53 AM, Alan Long wrote: I have used softperfect bandwidth management tool, just took an old server and loaded it up. Works great for us, it is serving approx. 400 college students in one complex. Also looked at using monowall, have a server built, but have not put it in production, during testing it worked just fine as well... Aerowire Alan Long Director of Network Operations alan.l...@aerowire.net 687 North Dean Road Auburn, AL 36830 tel: 3342759998 mobile: 336092 -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ugo Bellavance Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 3:19 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Bandwidth limitation enforcement Hi, We are currently looking at a way to make sure the bandwidth is allocates more fairly amongst our (~300) users. We have a 60mbps pipe from our ISP, but some wise ones are dowloading like crazy, and enabling traffic shaping on the firewall is just of little help. What are you guys using for bandwidth limiting (example: max 7mbps per MAC or IP address) and for policy enforcement: 30GB/month dl, extra gig is x cents. Thanks in advance. Ugo WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.123/2594 - Release Date: 12/30/09 01:27:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.725 / Virus Database: 270.14.123/2594 - Release Date: 12/31/09 02:52:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Happy New Year
Happy New Year!!! May the Lord Smile on You and yours. May we all be profitable, may we all have peace, and may our networks all stay up. Happy New Year!!! Steve Barnes Manager RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Happy New Year 2
To You As Well!!! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Steve Barnes Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 4:46 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Happy New Year Happy New Year!!! May the Lord Smile on You and yours. May we all be profitable, may we all have peace, and may our networks all stay up. Happy New Year!!! Steve Barnes Manager RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Happy New Year
Ditto to all! -RickG On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com wrote: Happy New Year!!! May the Lord Smile on You and yours. May we all be profitable, may we all have peace, and may our networks all stay up. Happy New Year!!! Steve Barnes Manager RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Happy New Year
AMEN to that Steve, and the same for you...And all the readers... -- From: Steve Barnes st...@pcswin.com Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 1:46 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Happy New Year Happy New Year!!! May the Lord Smile on You and yours. May we all be profitable, may we all have peace, and may our networks all stay up. Happy New Year!!! Steve Barnes Manager RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
