[WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?
Dear readers, Do you have any experience with successful blocking of P2P (eDonkey, Torrents etc.) traffic in your wireless networks? Any user who uses torrent client at his PC can effectively consume a lot of bandwidth of Wi-Fi access point, leaving other honest users with small portion of throughput. Port blocking does not help because nowadays P2P clients use random ports, encryption and other means to hide traffic patterns. I suppose that only one distinctive feature of such traffic exists: its ability to consume effective bandwidth. Do you happen to know or use any traffic shaping tools which can limit throughput per user? Thank you in advance for any thoghts, ideas etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Broadband compared to electricity of the early 1900's
Travis, The electrical grid is not as easy to manage and build as some people might think, even if it is one way so to speak. Found this out when I was building rural cellular towers. When we would pull service to a new site it would be built for 800-1200 amps capacity. In some parts of the country when we asked the power company to plan for that they would go crazy. In parts of Washington and Oregon we had to submit very sophisticated load planning documents. In some cases they stated they could not deliver the amount of service for the planned capacity the tower was built for. We had seen carriers easily max out a 200 amp service in summer months with their big shelters and HVAC units. In some cases ATT or Nextel had to pull in a second 200 amp service. Telling the power companies this in the rural areas made them nervous. I eventually got to speak with one of the engineers, he explained the in some places the grid was not built to handle large commercial loads like what we had planned and it meant major construction and upgrades for them to deliver that level of demand. The comparison to the electrical grid in that article is more to the point of how they had the same challenges as we do with broadband, getting service to rural areas they could not cost justify the build out. More importantly back when they had the arguments about building the electrical infrastructure, people had no concept what technologies would evolve using electricity. They just thought it was going to bring lights. Look at all of the things that developed in the last 100 years that required the use of electricity. Now imagine (or try to) what will evolve from the use of the internet in the next 80 years and beyond. I'll be the first to admit I have been wrong about many technologies or things that I thought were not possible just a few years ago. I'm a fool if I think things can't or won't change over time. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:43 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband compared to electricity of the early 1900's Hi, I've kept this email since you sent it out. I just now read the article, and I agree with many things stated there. About two days before you sent this article, it came to my mind (because there was a discussion about metered billing) that electricity is metered... yet, it's so cheap now that people don't worry about leaving their TV or lights on while they are gone from the house for a few hours. I think some day internet access may come to that level as well... but it may be 100 years from now before that happens. The biggest difference with electricity vs. internet service is that all the devices for internet service require two-way communication. Electricity is easy... you put it out on the wires, and people use it as they need it. There are almost no limits on the amount they can use, etc. Internet is different... the biggest difference is that every device that is connected can become infected, have bad hardware, or essentially take on a life of it's own... thus using more resources than what anyone realizes. A user could leave a bittorrent service running for 29 days before it's noticed... and then get a bill for $500 for that month's service... and nobody is happy. I think this is the reason that telco's and cableco's took so long to get internet going... they didn't know how to deal with two-way communication... and having a device on the connection that could cause an entire block, switch, router, etc. to have problems was totally new to them. Cable was easy when it was download only... same with telephone... a direct line back to a switch in a CO is easy... either it works or it doesn't. Will the internet evolve to something like electricity? I believe the answer is yes... but that is still a long time into the future... I doubt many of us will see it in our lifetimes. Travis Microserv Brian Webster wrote: I have been of the thought process that Broadband needs to be compared to electricity and telephone service expansion and deployments of the early 1900's. Here is a nice article that draws a direct comparison to electricity (and municipal networks). Should be good food for though to all: The Killer App of 1900 http://publicola.net/?p=20687 by Glenn Fleishman techn...@publicola.net, 12/11/2009, 11:18 AM It’s instructional to look back 100 years, not long after the first electrical generation plants were built to bring power to towns and cities, to assess the situation we find ourselves in with broadband availability today. http://publicola.net/?p=20687 Thank You, Brian Webster -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
Agreed, Brett. I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage, and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that. If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is you didn't buy a service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if you are down for a week, read the small print.. And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? Oh I used a low cost Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the Cable cos? Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any other technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other than Wireless for connectivity to a tower? Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive than a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate lower roof right fees. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bret Clark To: WISPA General List Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers. We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without getting the run around from a telco. I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with! Bret Tom Sharples wrote: I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The fix was that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That has proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech support. I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad though) and then find out that that wasn't the right number for a business account. Called the next number. Sat on hold a bit longer this time, but still only a few minutes. We quickly got through all of the who are you type stuff. Then the gal on the support end asked me to tell her what lights were on on the modem. Um, I'm an hour and a half form there. Well, sir, I'm unable help you unless someone is on at the site. Sigh. The home owner at this site is a snow bird and won't be home for months yet. The tech support people aren't able to tell if there is a connection or not. It's not like this is a little, rinky dink company like mine. This is a HUGE telco! Ug. They won't even try to fix a business account that I pay $1200.00 per year for. Probably even more than that. Amazing. Have a great day, I know I will. marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
I'm not sure that I agree that wireless has higher uptime than fiber. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:40 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Agreed, Brett. I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage, and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that. If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is you didn't buy a service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if you are down for a week, read the small print.. And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? Oh I used a low cost Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the Cable cos? Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any other technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other than Wireless for connectivity to a tower? Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive than a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate lower roof right fees. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bret Clark To: WISPA General List Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers. We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without getting the run around from a telco. I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with! Bret Tom Sharples wrote: I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The fix was that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That has proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech support. I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad though) and then find out that that wasn't the right number for a business account. Called the next number. Sat on hold a bit longer this time, but still only a few minutes. We quickly got through all of the who are you type stuff. Then the gal on the support end asked me to tell her what lights were on on the modem. Um, I'm an hour and a half form there. Well, sir, I'm unable help you unless someone is on at the site. Sigh. The home owner at this site is a snow bird and won't be home for months yet. The tech support people aren't able to tell if there is a connection or not. It's not like this is a little, rinky dink company like mine. This is a HUGE telco! Ug. They won't even try to fix a business account that I pay $1200.00 per year for. Probably even more than that. Amazing.
[WISPA] Reboot the FCC !
Could be very useful for the WISP cause: http://reboot.fcc.gov/home Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
I'm not sure I agree either, but wireless obviously can't be cut. With that though, our fiber hasn't been out more than twice in 5 years. -- Original Message -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:15:16 -0600 I'm not sure that I agree that wireless has higher uptime than fiber. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:40 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Agreed, Brett. I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage, and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that. If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is you didn't buy a service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if you are down for a week, read the small print.. And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? Oh I used a low cost Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the Cable cos? Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any other technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other than Wireless for connectivity to a tower? Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive than a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate lower roof right fees. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bret Clark To: WISPA General List Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers. We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without getting the run around from a telco. I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with! Bret Tom Sharples wrote: I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The fix was that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That has proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech support. I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad though) and then find out that that wasn't the right number for a business account. Called the next number. Sat on hold a bit longer this time, but still only a few minutes. We quickly got through all of the who are you type stuff. Then the gal on the support end asked me to tell her what lights were on on the modem. Um, I'm an hour and a half form there. Well, sir, I'm unable help you unless someone is on at the site. Sigh. The home owner at this site is a snow
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
Tom, When you make the claim that wireless has more uptime than fiber, where do you base those facts from and what types of fiber deployments are you comparing it to? While I believe wireless is a great thing, one has to wonder why a company who's name was MCI (Microwave Communications Incorporated) eventually switched everything to fiber? I helped buy a bunch of their old microwave tower sites after they were decommissioned. They built them for capacity and did everything right. It just seems that eventually the larger WISP's will need to consider the path that MCI took over time and wonder if they won't evolve along a similar path. Now their failure was not due to their choice of fiber over wireless and that's another story altogether. Fiber deployments have been commonplace between telephone switches for years now and I have never heard about reliability issues and/or downtime problems with the fiber. Not that they don't happen but when you average their uptime to their outages, I would think they have some of the better reliability figures over any technology. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:40 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Agreed, Brett. I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage, and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that. If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is you didn't buy a service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if you are down for a week, read the small print.. And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? Oh I used a low cost Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the Cable cos? Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any other technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other than Wireless for connectivity to a tower? Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive than a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate lower roof right fees. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bret Clark To: WISPA General List Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers. We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without getting the run around from a telco. I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with! Bret Tom Sharples wrote: I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The fix was that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That has proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
Our backbone fiber has been down 2-3 times over 3 years. One time was so that they could upgrade the Fiber Switches, and the other times we were only down a minute or two. Regards, Chuck Hogg Shelby Broadband 502-722-9292 ch...@shelbybb.com http://www.shelbybb.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Stuart Pierce Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:16 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I'm not sure I agree either, but wireless obviously can't be cut. With that though, our fiber hasn't been out more than twice in 5 years. -- Original Message -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:15:16 -0600 I'm not sure that I agree that wireless has higher uptime than fiber. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:40 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Agreed, Brett. I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage, and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that. If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is you didn't buy a service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if you are down for a week, read the small print.. And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? Oh I used a low cost Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the Cable cos? Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any other technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other than Wireless for connectivity to a tower? Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive than a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate lower roof right fees. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bret Clark To: WISPA General List Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers. We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without getting the run around from a telco. I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with! Bret Tom Sharples wrote: I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The fix was that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That has proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech support. I called that number only
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
I would agree in a heartbeat...we've actually won customers because of outages with DS3's and T1's that were run on fiber. When the historical ice storm came through New England just over a year ago, we had 100% uptime with our infrastructure while Fairpoint and Comcast was down all over the place including their fiber runs. Stuart Pierce wrote: I'm not sure I agree either, but wireless obviously can't be cut. With that though, our fiber hasn't been out more than twice in 5 years. -- Original Message -- From: "Mike Hammett" wispawirel...@ics-il.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:15:16 -0600 I'm not sure that I agree that wireless has higher uptime than fiber. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "Tom DeReggi" wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:40 AM To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Agreed, Brett. I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage, and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that. If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is "you didn't buy a service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if you are down for a week, read the small print.". And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? "Oh I used a low cost Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the Cable cos?" Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any other technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other than Wireless for connectivity to a tower? Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive than a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate lower roof right fees. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bret Clark To: WISPA General List Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers. We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without getting the run around from a telco. I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with! Bret Tom Sharples wrote: I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The "fix" was that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That has proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since. Tom S. - Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer" o...@odessaoffice.com To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech support. I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad though) and then find out that that wasn't the right number for a business account. Called the next number. Sat on hold a bit longer this time, but still only
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
Brian Webster wrote: Fiber deployments have been commonplace between telephone switches for years now and I have never heard about reliability issues and/or downtime problems with the fiber. Not that they don't happen but when you average their uptime to their outages, I would think they have some of the better reliability figures over any technology. Sure, because they are running a SONET network and fiber breaks are rather common, but when you have a secondary path then you don't hear about it. Build a wireless infrastructure the same way with redundancy and you'll have the same uptime. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Broadband compared to electricity of the early 1900's
Hi, One difference is they are not bringing in big electrical power in the hopes that someone will connect. They don't bring anything into these rural areas until AFTER you (or someone else) has committed to using that much service. It would be like having a business call and say I need a 100Mbps connection to the internet and I will pay your normal, posted pricing no questions asked.. Who here couldn't make that happen, regardless of the location? :) Travis Microserv Brian Webster wrote: Travis, The electrical grid is not as easy to manage and build as some people might think, even if it is one way so to speak. Found this out when I was building rural cellular towers. When we would pull service to a new site it would be built for 800-1200 amps capacity. In some parts of the country when we asked the power company to plan for that they would go crazy. In parts of Washington and Oregon we had to submit very sophisticated load planning documents. In some cases they stated they could not deliver the amount of service for the planned capacity the tower was built for. We had seen carriers easily max out a 200 amp service in summer months with their big shelters and HVAC units. In some cases ATT or Nextel had to pull in a second 200 amp service. Telling the power companies this in the rural areas made them nervous. I eventually got to speak with one of the engineers, he explained the in some places the grid was not built to handle large commercial loads like what we had planned and it meant major construction and upgrades for them to deliver that level of demand. The comparison to the electrical grid in that article is more to the point of how they had the same challenges as we do with broadband, getting service to rural areas they could not cost justify the build out. More importantly back when they had the arguments about building the electrical infrastructure, people had no concept what technologies would evolve using electricity. They just thought it was going to bring lights. Look at all of the things that developed in the last 100 years that required the use of electricity. Now imagine (or try to) what will evolve from the use of the internet in the next 80 years and beyond. I'll be the first to admit I have been wrong about many technologies or things that I thought were not possible just a few years ago. I'm a fool if I think things can't or won't change over time. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:43 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband compared to electricity of the early 1900's Hi, I've kept this email since you sent it out. I just now read the article, and I agree with many things stated there. About two days before you sent this article, it came to my mind (because there was a discussion about metered billing) that electricity is metered... yet, it's so cheap now that people don't worry about leaving their TV or lights on while they are gone from the house for a few hours. I think some day internet access may come to that level as well... but it may be 100 years from now before that happens. The biggest difference with electricity vs. internet service is that all the devices for internet service require two-way communication. Electricity is easy... you put it out on the wires, and people use it as they need it. There are almost no limits on the amount they can use, etc. Internet is different... the biggest difference is that every device that is connected can become infected, have bad hardware, or essentially take on a life of it's own... thus using more resources than what anyone realizes. A user could leave a bittorrent service running for 29 days before it's noticed... and then get a bill for $500 for that month's service... and nobody is happy. I think this is the reason that telco's and cableco's took so long to get internet going... they didn't know how to deal with two-way communication... and having a device on the connection that could cause an entire block, switch, router, etc. to have problems was totally new to them. Cable was easy when it was download only... same with telephone... a direct line back to a switch in a CO is easy... either it works or it doesn't. Will the internet evolve to something like electricity? I believe the answer is yes... but that is still a long time into the future... I doubt many of us will see it in our lifetimes. Travis Microserv Brian Webster wrote: I have been of the thought process that Broadband needs to be compared to electricity and telephone service expansion and deployments of the early 1900's. Here is a nice article that draws a direct comparison to electricity (and municipal networks). Should be good food for though to all: The Killer App of 1900
Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?
MikroTik firewall filter rule using the all-p2p matcher and drop as action? On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 4:34 AM, Roman consulttele...@gmail.com wrote: Dear readers, Do you have any experience with successful blocking of P2P (eDonkey, Torrents etc.) traffic in your wireless networks? Any user who uses torrent client at his PC can effectively consume a lot of bandwidth of Wi-Fi access point, leaving other honest users with small portion of throughput. Port blocking does not help because nowadays P2P clients use random ports, encryption and other means to hide traffic patterns. I suppose that only one distinctive feature of such traffic exists: its ability to consume effective bandwidth. Do you happen to know or use any traffic shaping tools which can limit throughput per user? Thank you in advance for any thoghts, ideas etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
Exactly. The terms wireless and fiber are too broad to make any valid reliability comparison without more specifics. Comparing a licensed point to point microwave system with redundant paths, spatial diversity, standby power, and a tower structure rated to 150 MPH to an aerial fiber strand running through the woods in northeast ice storm territory would lead one to believe that wireless is the more reliable technology. Comparing a 2.4 GHz 802.11 link with grid antennas shooting some trees in icy territory to a SONET ring connecting two metro area datacenters would lead one to believe that fiber is the more reliable technology. Unfortunately, this distinction is not made by the general public, and it makes the sales process for business grade fixed wireless services more difficult. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com Bret Clark wrote: Brian Webster wrote: Fiber deployments have been commonplace between telephone switches for years now and I have never heard about reliability issues and/or downtime problems with the fiber. Not that they don't happen but when you average their uptime to their outages, I would think they have some of the better reliability figures over any technology. Sure, because they are running a SONET network and fiber breaks are rather common, but when you have a secondary path then you don't hear about it. Build a wireless infrastructure the same way with redundancy and you'll have the same uptime. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?
You'll never catch everything. Once its encrypted its really hard to block. What your better off doing is blocking what you can, And when you have a problem, Queue that user down to something you see acceptable. I've had people yell and scream that you can't do this, Like comcast got nailed for. But the catch is, They were doing it all the time. Not only when there was congestion/high latency on the network. Nick Olsen Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x106 From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:39 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot? MikroTik firewall filter rule using the all-p2p matcher and drop as action? On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 4:34 AM, Roman consulttele...@gmail.com wrote: Dear readers, Do you have any experience with successful blocking of P2P (eDonkey, Torrents etc.) traffic in your wireless networks? Any user who uses torrent client at his PC can effectively consume a lot of bandwidth of Wi-Fi access point, leaving other honest users with small portion of throughput. Port blocking does not help because nowadays P2P clients use random ports, encryption and other means to hide traffic patterns. I suppose that only one distinctive feature of such traffic exists: its ability to consume effective bandwidth. Do you happen to know or use any traffic shaping tools which can limit throughput per user? Thank you in advance for any thoghts, ideas etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor with UBNT radios or Mikrotik?
Yes you can. You have to move the ground jumper. Just loosen the nuts and move the jumper to the hole with no copper. The jumper will short out the + voltage to ground. LaRoy McCann Data Technology Scott Carullo wrote: Not sure if it matters that the voltage + and - are swapped... Thanks Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the Data Technology MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Harris-Stratex ptmp 3.65 Wimax Base
Is this Harris made or OEM? http://tinyurl.com/ycqxay Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Harris-Stratex ptmp 3.65 Wimax Base
Harris bought Telsima, then Harris split off the Harris-Stratex side, which now holds all the wireless ptp (stratex side) and pmp (Telsima side). So it is not an OEM but rather an acquired unit. Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:20 AM To: WISPA General List; motor...@afmug.com Subject: [WISPA] Harris-Stratex ptmp 3.65 Wimax Base Is this Harris made or OEM? http://tinyurl.com/ycqxay Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. 787.273.4143 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
Agreed, Patrick. As a business only provider many of our customers that bring in a 10-50-100Mbps or higher microwave connection in from us are doing so to complement their existing fiber connection(s). As time progresses some of those customers end up favoring our microwave connection over their fiber connection. Sometimes it's because we're better peered and have fewer hops or lower latency other times it's simply because we have fewer points of failure and therefore our availability is higher. It all comes back to those three ever important sticking points: Location - Location - Location Best, Brad -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Shoemaker Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:46 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Exactly. The terms wireless and fiber are too broad to make any valid reliability comparison without more specifics. Comparing a licensed point to point microwave system with redundant paths, spatial diversity, standby power, and a tower structure rated to 150 MPH to an aerial fiber strand running through the woods in northeast ice storm territory would lead one to believe that wireless is the more reliable technology. Comparing a 2.4 GHz 802.11 link with grid antennas shooting some trees in icy territory to a SONET ring connecting two metro area datacenters would lead one to believe that fiber is the more reliable technology. Unfortunately, this distinction is not made by the general public, and it makes the sales process for business grade fixed wireless services more difficult. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com Bret Clark wrote: Brian Webster wrote: Fiber deployments have been commonplace between telephone switches for years now and I have never heard about reliability issues and/or downtime problems with the fiber. Not that they don't happen but when you average their uptime to their outages, I would think they have some of the better reliability figures over any technology. Sure, because they are running a SONET network and fiber breaks are rather common, but when you have a secondary path then you don't hear about it. Build a wireless infrastructure the same way with redundancy and you'll have the same uptime. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
Let me clarify. I'm referring to Metro-E deployment. I'm not refering to the physical medium glass filled wire, which of course has a huge long reliable life. Metro-E typically runs from commercial building to commercial building. Each Hop is a potential failure point. Metro-E tends to be a Sequential or In-Series deployment, where there are many potential failure points between Start and End Point of a desired link. Most Metro-E Deployments whether Layer3 or Layer2, tend to terminate everything at the end of the line at a central place, so there is often much shared infrastructure on the way to the far end.infrastructure. The fact that Fiber can extend in 20-40 mile incrememnts without power is irrelevent when its most cost viable for Metro-E providers to stop at each building along the path on the way. What Fiber Providers cant control (no better than us), is the rules and decissions Building Owners need to make to maintain their building and power. For example, recently, there was a water leak in a building, the Building protocol was Turn off power to the electrical rooms in the building until leak fixed. The building owner could care less that the Fiber infrastructure would be turned off, becaue they had a bigger responsibility to the maintenance and safety of their Half-Billion dollar commercial office building. So, Fiber routers got powered off and service went down. These type things happen ALL the time. At one building, it might only happen 2-3 times over 5 years, but multiply that times 20 buildings in-line path, and that becomes 40-60 outages in 5 years. With Wireless PTP, we tend to go longer distances before a hop is incurred, and minimizing the number of buildings in-line that could have an effect on whether we had power or not to our gear. If we compare RF to Light, the difference in uptiem by technology isavery insignificant amount even if Fiber better. But if we compare deployment its not so insignificant to compare wireless with 2-3 buildings inline to fiber 10-20 buildings inline. The fact is, fiber does have the ability to deploy redundant technology, but so does Wireless. And Fiber carriers bypass redundancy in many cases for the same reasons Wireless carriers do, to reduce cost, add simplicity for maintenance, and capacity planning/control. What you see happening is Fiber carriers using one fiber strand, and then putting EVERYTHING on that one strand of Fiber. They do this because they often dont own the fiber, and have to buy Dark Fiber, and they pay per strand. Fiber deployments are not automatically redundant as much as people think, when considering all networking components. For example, LAyer2, Layer3, OSPF, and BGP all have to function both waysacross all redundant paths for all customers. When there are one or two hops inline with Wireless, its so much easier and less disruptive to verify and test that redundancy doesactually work in a failure situatuation. With Fiber carriers it is to risky to test redundant configs because to many people are sharing the infrastructure and it crosses so many hops. The Fiber carriers make config mistakes. And when they share so much infrastructure, its easy to harm another customer's config, when configuring new customers. I can not give national data for all carriers deployment. BUT from our experience on our network the most reliable network components are our wireless PTP links. The largest cause is Power. One of the reasons we did not increase the uptime of our wireless towers fed by fiber was that it did no good to have power systems that gave uptimes larger than the uptime delivered by our fiber carrier's power systems. The truth is batteries fail, and nobody knows it until a failure occurs, and the 4 hour uptimes doesn't occur. The more buildings inline, the more chances one of the buildings inline is effected by a power outage somewhere. The number we use is that when one of our end users experiences an outage it is 4x more likely it is from a fiber related outage, not from our Metro Wireless back haul. I'll give a real world example, We provide wholesale to a WISP in DC. I'm estimating that they had near 8 outages in two years if not more, and all were related to fiber. The DragonWave wireless link and Tlink-45 inline serving them the last mile has not failed once in the same time. Sure I'll agree that Long Haul Fiber is likely more reliable, because it is built to be. But Metro-Fiber and FTTH is not built to that same spec most of the time. One of the bigger mistakes I made is I paid for fiber instead of Licensed links early on. (ACtually it was not a mistake, it was a lack of upfront cash/pitol at the time). I lost a lot of business because I relied on Fiber Metrol Transports, that could not deliver the SLA or Uptime anywhere near the expectations that I set for my Wireless transport network. EVEN my Trango 5830s, I had PTP links that never had a
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
The thing is there are cases or palces where Wireless cant be made reliable for a specific situations that limit that location. People will remember those rare cases and associate them with Wireless in general, without understanding that taht is a different situation and not the norm. People blaim Wireless or the wireless provider for a lot, but its rarely the Wireless's fault. You'd also be surprised how often Sonet Rings wont properly route the other direction around the ring, when a failure occurs, based on the type of failure. The Fiber Ring is a physical redundancy method, but it doesn't mean that the intelligence part over top it will properly direct the traffic. Its also hard to get a fiber carrier to truthfully disclose the full inner workings of their network, for the buyer to verify a claimed redundant path will truly offer full redundancy. The only way to know for sure, and guarantee it wont change over time, is to do it yourself, or work with someone small enough who is not afraid to show the proof. For example, for some of my customers, I'll map out hop per hop the path their data will go both primary and backup path. I'm not saying I give redunancy ever, because there are many places my network is not redundant. But I could built it redundant and PROVE IT, when customers were willing to pay for that. For Fiber,. If I want guaranteed redundant Fiber transport paths, they will charge me for two circuits, double the price. And I could get better diversity if I jsut deployed two wireless links to diverse paths. So To compare reliabilty of Wireless to Fiber, its really only an apples to apples comparison if we compare a single wireless link to a non-redundant single fiber path. For example, a Wireless ring could jsut as equally be created to compare against a Sonet ring. At the end of the day, the only thing Fiber gives us is more capacity when that capacity is actually needed. Unless of course, LOS cant be achieved, or distance to long for the technology. But the worst travisty in public perception is that the public often associates Wireless with the lowest technology capabilty. Fixed PTP wireless should NOT be bundled into the same category as PtMP Wifi. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Patrick Shoemaker shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Exactly. The terms wireless and fiber are too broad to make any valid reliability comparison without more specifics. Comparing a licensed point to point microwave system with redundant paths, spatial diversity, standby power, and a tower structure rated to 150 MPH to an aerial fiber strand running through the woods in northeast ice storm territory would lead one to believe that wireless is the more reliable technology. Comparing a 2.4 GHz 802.11 link with grid antennas shooting some trees in icy territory to a SONET ring connecting two metro area datacenters would lead one to believe that fiber is the more reliable technology. Unfortunately, this distinction is not made by the general public, and it makes the sales process for business grade fixed wireless services more difficult. Patrick Shoemaker Vector Data Systems LLC shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com office: (301) 358-1690 x36 http://www.vectordatasystems.com Bret Clark wrote: Brian Webster wrote: Fiber deployments have been commonplace between telephone switches for years now and I have never heard about reliability issues and/or downtime problems with the fiber. Not that they don't happen but when you average their uptime to their outages, I would think they have some of the better reliability figures over any technology. Sure, because they are running a SONET network and fiber breaks are rather common, but when you have a secondary path then you don't hear about it. Build a wireless infrastructure the same way with redundancy and you'll have the same uptime. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG.
Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor with UBNT radios or Mikrotik?
The 600SSB still clamps at 35V like the 300SS, right? If so, make sure you are using Less than 35V Mikrotiks units and not 48V configurations. As an alternative Citel also makes a nice outdoor mountable unit specifically for wifi pin-outs, about the same cost ($25ish). They have both 60Vand 35V models. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Data Technology w...@dtisp.com To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor with UBNT radios or Mikrotik? Yes you can. You have to move the ground jumper. Just loosen the nuts and move the jumper to the hole with no copper. The jumper will short out the + voltage to ground. LaRoy McCann Data Technology Scott Carullo wrote: Not sure if it matters that the voltage + and - are swapped... Thanks Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the Data Technology MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date: 5/15/2009 6:16 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
Fiber doesn't suffer from interference or have a low number of frequencies you can use at one location. Richey -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Stuart Pierce Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:16 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I'm not sure I agree either, but wireless obviously can't be cut. With that though, our fiber hasn't been out more than twice in 5 years. -- Original Message -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:15:16 -0600 I'm not sure that I agree that wireless has higher uptime than fiber. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:40 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Agreed, Brett. I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage, and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that. If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is you didn't buy a service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if you are down for a week, read the small print.. And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? Oh I used a low cost Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the Cable cos? Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any other technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other than Wireless for connectivity to a tower? Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive than a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate lower roof right fees. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bret Clark To: WISPA General List Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers. We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without getting the run around from a telco. I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with! Bret Tom Sharples wrote: I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The fix was that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That has proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech support. I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad though) and then find out that that wasn't the right number for a business account.
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
I am planning to have access to fiber throughout an area that's probably 3x to 4x my current coverage area. I'll build my network around that fiber. However, I will retain wireless PtP links for redundancy. That cuts down on the need to consume valuable spectrum for primary backhaul links. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:48 AM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Let me clarify. I'm referring to Metro-E deployment. I'm not refering to the physical medium glass filled wire, which of course has a huge long reliable life. Metro-E typically runs from commercial building to commercial building. Each Hop is a potential failure point. Metro-E tends to be a Sequential or In-Series deployment, where there are many potential failure points between Start and End Point of a desired link. Most Metro-E Deployments whether Layer3 or Layer2, tend to terminate everything at the end of the line at a central place, so there is often much shared infrastructure on the way to the far end.infrastructure. The fact that Fiber can extend in 20-40 mile incrememnts without power is irrelevent when its most cost viable for Metro-E providers to stop at each building along the path on the way. What Fiber Providers cant control (no better than us), is the rules and decissions Building Owners need to make to maintain their building and power. For example, recently, there was a water leak in a building, the Building protocol was Turn off power to the electrical rooms in the building until leak fixed. The building owner could care less that the Fiber infrastructure would be turned off, becaue they had a bigger responsibility to the maintenance and safety of their Half-Billion dollar commercial office building. So, Fiber routers got powered off and service went down. These type things happen ALL the time. At one building, it might only happen 2-3 times over 5 years, but multiply that times 20 buildings in-line path, and that becomes 40-60 outages in 5 years. With Wireless PTP, we tend to go longer distances before a hop is incurred, and minimizing the number of buildings in-line that could have an effect on whether we had power or not to our gear. If we compare RF to Light, the difference in uptiem by technology isavery insignificant amount even if Fiber better. But if we compare deployment its not so insignificant to compare wireless with 2-3 buildings inline to fiber 10-20 buildings inline. The fact is, fiber does have the ability to deploy redundant technology, but so does Wireless. And Fiber carriers bypass redundancy in many cases for the same reasons Wireless carriers do, to reduce cost, add simplicity for maintenance, and capacity planning/control. What you see happening is Fiber carriers using one fiber strand, and then putting EVERYTHING on that one strand of Fiber. They do this because they often dont own the fiber, and have to buy Dark Fiber, and they pay per strand. Fiber deployments are not automatically redundant as much as people think, when considering all networking components. For example, LAyer2, Layer3, OSPF, and BGP all have to function both waysacross all redundant paths for all customers. When there are one or two hops inline with Wireless, its so much easier and less disruptive to verify and test that redundancy doesactually work in a failure situatuation. With Fiber carriers it is to risky to test redundant configs because to many people are sharing the infrastructure and it crosses so many hops. The Fiber carriers make config mistakes. And when they share so much infrastructure, its easy to harm another customer's config, when configuring new customers. I can not give national data for all carriers deployment. BUT from our experience on our network the most reliable network components are our wireless PTP links. The largest cause is Power. One of the reasons we did not increase the uptime of our wireless towers fed by fiber was that it did no good to have power systems that gave uptimes larger than the uptime delivered by our fiber carrier's power systems. The truth is batteries fail, and nobody knows it until a failure occurs, and the 4 hour uptimes doesn't occur. The more buildings inline, the more chances one of the buildings inline is effected by a power outage somewhere. The number we use is that when one of our end users experiences an outage it is 4x more likely it is from a fiber related outage, not from our Metro Wireless back haul. I'll give a real world example, We provide wholesale to a WISP in DC. I'm estimating that they had near 8 outages in two years if not more, and all were related to
Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor with UBNT radios or Mikrotik?
Good point about the voltage. I use them mostly for UBNT CPE. What MT units I used them with were 18 or 24V. Tom DeReggi wrote: The 600SSB still clamps at 35V like the 300SS, right? If so, make sure you are using Less than 35V Mikrotiks units and not 48V configurations. As an alternative Citel also makes a nice outdoor mountable unit specifically for wifi pin-outs, about the same cost ($25ish). They have both 60Vand 35V models. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Data Technology w...@dtisp.com To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor with UBNT radios or Mikrotik? Yes you can. You have to move the ground jumper. Just loosen the nuts and move the jumper to the hole with no copper. The jumper will short out the + voltage to ground. LaRoy McCann Data Technology Scott Carullo wrote: Not sure if it matters that the voltage + and - are swapped... Thanks Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the Data Technology MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date: 5/15/2009 6:16 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the Data Technology MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor with UBNT radios or Mikrotik?
I know it isn't said very often but the voltages for the devices we commonly use are Canopy 12-24v Nano/Locostations 12-25v MT 4xx 10-28v Cordless drill battery 18-22v Having a mobile POE priceless Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Data Technology w...@dtisp.com wrote: Good point about the voltage. I use them mostly for UBNT CPE. What MT units I used them with were 18 or 24V. Tom DeReggi wrote: The 600SSB still clamps at 35V like the 300SS, right? If so, make sure you are using Less than 35V Mikrotiks units and not 48V configurations. As an alternative Citel also makes a nice outdoor mountable unit specifically for wifi pin-outs, about the same cost ($25ish). They have both 60Vand 35V models. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Data Technology w...@dtisp.com To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor with UBNT radios or Mikrotik? Yes you can. You have to move the ground jumper. Just loosen the nuts and move the jumper to the hole with no copper. The jumper will short out the + voltage to ground. LaRoy McCann Data Technology Scott Carullo wrote: Not sure if it matters that the voltage + and - are swapped... Thanks Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the Data Technology MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date: 5/15/2009 6:16 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the Data Technology MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Broadband compared to electricity of the early 1900's
Actually the broken device example happens with electricity too. There can be a failed hot water heater. Shorted wires etc. that run the bill way up. The difference is that people don't leave their hair dryer on 24/7. They know it uses a lot of resources so they turn it off. They will also install heat pumps instead of regular ol' furnaces. They will insulate a house to better conserve electricity, therefore money. With our telecom model of all you can eat for one flat price there is NO incentive for efficiency. People don't care how bad the encryption mechanisms are for that movie they want to download. They don't care how big that Microsoft update is etc. The ONLY ones paying attention to those things are the dial-up users, they have no choice but to watch their usage. Eventually one of two things has to happen. Bandwidth has to become free, you just hook into the system, pay a flat rate and use all you could possibly want. Or it'll be a cost per unit basis, like long distance used to be. And, ahem, everything else in life already is. Know what I think the REAL driver for pay for use will be? Better privacy laws. When companies can no longer data mine your activities and use that for a source of income they'll have to find a better way to make money off of the consumer. Shrug. Something will have to give in the next 5 years. Who knows, maybe some radio company will finally come up with a really good mechanism for spectrum sharing and pushing bandwidth. Then GIVE that technology to the entire industry. How cool would it be to be able to get rid of the wi-fi mechanism while keeping the current hardware pricing models. Here's one for you. I think we should push the FCC to allow AP sync, like what can be done via 5 gig. We should also push for wi-fi radios to include a sync mechanism in them so that we can more effectively avoid interference. Especially with ourselves on our own towers. pondering marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband compared to electricity of the early 1900's Hi, I've kept this email since you sent it out. I just now read the article, and I agree with many things stated there. About two days before you sent this article, it came to my mind (because there was a discussion about metered billing) that electricity is metered... yet, it's so cheap now that people don't worry about leaving their TV or lights on while they are gone from the house for a few hours. I think some day internet access may come to that level as well... but it may be 100 years from now before that happens. The biggest difference with electricity vs. internet service is that all the devices for internet service require two-way communication. Electricity is easy... you put it out on the wires, and people use it as they need it. There are almost no limits on the amount they can use, etc. Internet is different... the biggest difference is that every device that is connected can become infected, have bad hardware, or essentially take on a life of it's own... thus using more resources than what anyone realizes. A user could leave a bittorrent service running for 29 days before it's noticed... and then get a bill for $500 for that month's service... and nobody is happy. I think this is the reason that telco's and cableco's took so long to get internet going... they didn't know how to deal with two-way communication... and having a device on the connection that could cause an entire block, switch, router, etc. to have problems was totally new to them. Cable was easy when it was download only... same with telephone... a direct line back to a switch in a CO is easy... either it works or it doesn't. Will the internet evolve to something like electricity? I believe the answer is yes... but that is still a long time into the future... I doubt many of us will see it in our lifetimes. Travis Microserv Brian Webster wrote: I have been of the thought process that Broadband needs to be compared to electricity and telephone service expansion and deployments of the early 1900's. Here is a nice article that draws a direct comparison to electricity (and municipal networks). Should be good food for though to all: The Killer App of 1900 http://publicola.net/?p=20687 by Glenn Fleishman techn...@publicola.net, 12/11/2009, 11:18 AM It’s instructional to look back 100 years, not long after the first electrical generation plants were built to bring power to towns and cities, to assess the situation we find ourselves in with broadband availability today. http://publicola.net/?p=20687 Thank You, Brian Webster WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?
Hiya Roman, We bill per bit. That way we don't care what the customer is doing, all we're worried about is how much they uses. Run edonkey and you'll get an extra bill. Download Netflix and you'll get an extra bill etc. MOST of the time we catch virus's for our customers. It's actually a pretty good sales tool. Netflix is changing that somewhat though. marlon - Original Message - From: Roman consulttele...@gmail.com To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 3:34 AM Subject: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot? Dear readers, Do you have any experience with successful blocking of P2P (eDonkey, Torrents etc.) traffic in your wireless networks? Any user who uses torrent client at his PC can effectively consume a lot of bandwidth of Wi-Fi access point, leaving other honest users with small portion of throughput. Port blocking does not help because nowadays P2P clients use random ports, encryption and other means to hide traffic patterns. I suppose that only one distinctive feature of such traffic exists: its ability to consume effective bandwidth. Do you happen to know or use any traffic shaping tools which can limit throughput per user? Thank you in advance for any thoghts, ideas etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor with UBNT radios or Mikrotik?
I guess I hit enter before I was thru typing. I also use the Citel in-line suppressors (60v) in every AP that I build. http://www.citel.us/data_sheets/dataline/MJ850524D3A6012B-DataSheet.pdf Knock on wood, I have never lost an ethernet port on a unit that has this surge suppressor installed. I had an AP go dead a couple of months ago. When I opened the enclosure there was water in the bottom of the enclosure and the surge suppressor was actually melted from the connector shorting out, but the MT board was fine. LaRoy McCann Data Technology Josh Luthman wrote: I know it isn't said very often but the voltages for the devices we commonly use are Canopy 12-24v Nano/Locostations 12-25v MT 4xx 10-28v Cordless drill battery 18-22v Having a mobile POE priceless Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Data Technology w...@dtisp.com wrote: Good point about the voltage. I use them mostly for UBNT CPE. What MT units I used them with were 18 or 24V. Tom DeReggi wrote: The 600SSB still clamps at 35V like the 300SS, right? If so, make sure you are using Less than 35V Mikrotiks units and not 48V configurations. As an alternative Citel also makes a nice outdoor mountable unit specifically for wifi pin-outs, about the same cost ($25ish). They have both 60Vand 35V models. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Data Technology w...@dtisp.com To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor with UBNT radios or Mikrotik? Yes you can. You have to move the ground jumper. Just loosen the nuts and move the jumper to the hole with no copper. The jumper will short out the + voltage to ground. LaRoy McCann Data Technology Scott Carullo wrote: Not sure if it matters that the voltage + and - are swapped... Thanks Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the Data Technology MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date: 5/15/2009 6:16 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the Data Technology MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the Data Technology MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?
2010/1/11 Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com: Hiya Roman, We bill per bit. Â That way we don't care what the customer is doing, all we're worried about is how much they uses. Â Run edonkey and you'll get an extra bill. Â Download Netflix and you'll get an extra bill etc. MOST of the time we catch virus's for our customers. Â It's actually a pretty good sales tool. Â Netflix is changing that somewhat though. marlon That is a very hard sell for transient hotspot users. You'd probably have close to 100% chargebacks for the customers who get an extra bill. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?
On Mon, 2010-01-11 at 14:34 +0300, Roman wrote: Do you have any experience with successful blocking of P2P (eDonkey, Torrents etc.) traffic in your wireless networks? Yes. Any user who uses torrent client at his PC can effectively consume a lot of bandwidth of Wi-Fi access point, leaving other honest users with small portion of throughput. Depends on what you mean by bandwidth. Torrents are typically not huge consumers of bandwidth, but ARE typically large consumers of packet rate (which will cause 802.11 type devices to not behave well). There are ways to recognize the traffic patterns that are associated with torrents, viruses and such. If you can recognize them, you can limit them. Port blocking does not help because nowadays P2P clients use random ports, encryption and other means to hide traffic patterns. A good observation. This is why you have to look at the actual traffic pattern and not the traffic itself. I suppose that only one distinctive feature of such traffic exists: its ability to consume effective bandwidth. Other traffic does this. A single connection download of a large ISO image will take a lot of bandwidth, and it is not something you can classify as peer to peer. My QOS system identifies this traffic (the single connections) and separates it out before we start assuming the traffic is p2p. Do you happen to know or use any traffic shaping tools which can limit throughput per user? Per user traffic shaping is easily done in nearly every Linux based system in existence. ImageStream, Mikrotik, etc. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?
Then just put in a hard cap. Or set them to such a slow speed that it's unusable. The REST of the users will sure be glad that the service works as it should :-). marlon - Original Message - From: Jeremy Parr jeremyp...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot? 2010/1/11 Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com: Hiya Roman, We bill per bit. That way we don't care what the customer is doing, all we're worried about is how much they uses. Run edonkey and you'll get an extra bill. Download Netflix and you'll get an extra bill etc. MOST of the time we catch virus's for our customers. It's actually a pretty good sales tool. Netflix is changing that somewhat though. marlon That is a very hard sell for transient hotspot users. You'd probably have close to 100% chargebacks for the customers who get an extra bill. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
Time Warner does offer an SLA on their Business Class. It's worked in our favor the three time its gone down in the 6 months that its been installed! Considering that, our wireless has been running five 9s to our business customers who chose us over the wired connections options. -RickG On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Stuart Pierce spie...@avolve.net wrote: I'm not sure I agree either, but wireless obviously can't be cut. With that though, our fiber hasn't been out more than twice in 5 years. -- Original Message -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:15:16 -0600 I'm not sure that I agree that wireless has higher uptime than fiber. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:40 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Agreed, Brett. I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage, and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that. If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is you didn't buy a service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if you are down for a week, read the small print.. And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? Oh I used a low cost Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the Cable cos? Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any other technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other than Wireless for connectivity to a tower? Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive than a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate lower roof right fees. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bret Clark To: WISPA General List Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers. We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without getting the run around from a telco. I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with! Bret Tom Sharples wrote: I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The fix was that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That has proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them. Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all of them. My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I shouldn't have to Next, I finally get a tech on the screen. Well, kinda, the web site doesn't have anything but an error at the top. But the chat part eventually came up and a tech was on the line. We quickly established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not. ug So, he gave me a phone number for tech support. I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad though)
Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?
I wouldn't ever block anything in non-security management. I'd just slow it down. If you block it, they'll find a way around it. If you slow it to 64k or something like that, it'll just assume you have a slow line and act accordingly. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Roman consulttele...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 5:34 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot? Dear readers, Do you have any experience with successful blocking of P2P (eDonkey, Torrents etc.) traffic in your wireless networks? Any user who uses torrent client at his PC can effectively consume a lot of bandwidth of Wi-Fi access point, leaving other honest users with small portion of throughput. Port blocking does not help because nowadays P2P clients use random ports, encryption and other means to hide traffic patterns. I suppose that only one distinctive feature of such traffic exists: its ability to consume effective bandwidth. Do you happen to know or use any traffic shaping tools which can limit throughput per user? Thank you in advance for any thoghts, ideas etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor with UBNT radios or Mikrotik?
Darn! I just got a 36 volt lithium Bosch Hammer Drill! On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: I know it isn't said very often but the voltages for the devices we commonly use are Canopy 12-24v Nano/Locostations 12-25v MT 4xx 10-28v Cordless drill battery 18-22v Having a mobile POE priceless Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Data Technology w...@dtisp.com wrote: Good point about the voltage. I use them mostly for UBNT CPE. What MT units I used them with were 18 or 24V. Tom DeReggi wrote: The 600SSB still clamps at 35V like the 300SS, right? If so, make sure you are using Less than 35V Mikrotiks units and not 48V configurations. As an alternative Citel also makes a nice outdoor mountable unit specifically for wifi pin-outs, about the same cost ($25ish). They have both 60Vand 35V models. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Data Technology w...@dtisp.com To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor with UBNT radios or Mikrotik? Yes you can. You have to move the ground jumper. Just loosen the nuts and move the jumper to the hole with no copper. The jumper will short out the + voltage to ground. LaRoy McCann Data Technology Scott Carullo wrote: Not sure if it matters that the voltage + and - are swapped... Thanks Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the Data Technology MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date: 5/15/2009 6:16 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the Data Technology MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
Hey guys. What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30* or colder)? N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that we could use to replace this one with. Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor with UBNT radios or Mikrotik?
Good results here as well with Citel units. Unfortunately, the radio sometimes still gets it through through the coax. Switching over to polyphasers before spring! On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Data Technology w...@dtisp.com wrote: I guess I hit enter before I was thru typing. I also use the Citel in-line suppressors (60v) in every AP that I build. http://www.citel.us/data_sheets/dataline/MJ850524D3A6012B-DataSheet.pdf Knock on wood, I have never lost an ethernet port on a unit that has this surge suppressor installed. I had an AP go dead a couple of months ago. When I opened the enclosure there was water in the bottom of the enclosure and the surge suppressor was actually melted from the connector shorting out, but the MT board was fine. LaRoy McCann Data Technology Josh Luthman wrote: I know it isn't said very often but the voltages for the devices we commonly use are Canopy 12-24v Nano/Locostations 12-25v MT 4xx 10-28v Cordless drill battery 18-22v Having a mobile POE priceless Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Data Technology w...@dtisp.com wrote: Good point about the voltage. I use them mostly for UBNT CPE. What MT units I used them with were 18 or 24V. Tom DeReggi wrote: The 600SSB still clamps at 35V like the 300SS, right? If so, make sure you are using Less than 35V Mikrotiks units and not 48V configurations. As an alternative Citel also makes a nice outdoor mountable unit specifically for wifi pin-outs, about the same cost ($25ish). They have both 60Vand 35V models. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Data Technology w...@dtisp.com To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor with UBNT radios or Mikrotik? Yes you can. You have to move the ground jumper. Just loosen the nuts and move the jumper to the hole with no copper. The jumper will short out the + voltage to ground. LaRoy McCann Data Technology Scott Carullo wrote: Not sure if it matters that the voltage + and - are swapped... Thanks Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the Data Technology MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date: 5/15/2009 6:16 AM WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by the Data Technology MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
Ice works. :) Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self vulcanizing tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of crusty stuff trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing chemical or the sticky or whatever but it went on just fine. Temp was around 20 degrees. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Hey guys. What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30* or colder)? N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that we could use to replace this one with. Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?
Marlon, as you know I've been a proponent of usage based billing since I've been in broadband. But, whether you bill for it or not, PTP still eats up the AP to the point it slows it down for everyone. How do you get around that? -RickG On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Hiya Roman, We bill per bit. That way we don't care what the customer is doing, all we're worried about is how much they uses. Run edonkey and you'll get an extra bill. Download Netflix and you'll get an extra bill etc. MOST of the time we catch virus's for our customers. It's actually a pretty good sales tool. Netflix is changing that somewhat though. marlon - Original Message - From: Roman consulttele...@gmail.com To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 3:34 AM Subject: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot? Dear readers, Do you have any experience with successful blocking of P2P (eDonkey, Torrents etc.) traffic in your wireless networks? Any user who uses torrent client at his PC can effectively consume a lot of bandwidth of Wi-Fi access point, leaving other honest users with small portion of throughput. Port blocking does not help because nowadays P2P clients use random ports, encryption and other means to hide traffic patterns. I suppose that only one distinctive feature of such traffic exists: its ability to consume effective bandwidth. Do you happen to know or use any traffic shaping tools which can limit throughput per user? Thank you in advance for any thoghts, ideas etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
Our luck hasn't been good with that. Other ideas / possibilities? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:23 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Ice works. :) Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self vulcanizing tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of crusty stuff trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing chemical or the sticky or whatever but it went on just fine. Temp was around 20 degrees. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Hey guys. What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30* or colder)? N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that we could use to replace this one with. Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
Coax seal. On 1/11/10, Jason Hensley ja...@jaggartech.com wrote: Our luck hasn't been good with that. Other ideas / possibilities? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:23 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Ice works. :) Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self vulcanizing tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of crusty stuff trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing chemical or the sticky or whatever but it went on just fine. Temp was around 20 degrees. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Hey guys. What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30* or colder)? N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that we could use to replace this one with. Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
I've used the liquid tape but never in the cold. What's happened to the vulcanizing tape? Some use a top coat of regular vinyl tape so that it doesn't weather. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:25 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Our luck hasn't been good with that. Other ideas / possibilities? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:23 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Ice works. :) Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self vulcanizing tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of crusty stuff trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing chemical or the sticky or whatever but it went on just fine. Temp was around 20 degrees. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Hey guys. What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30* or colder)? N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that we could use to replace this one with. Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
Coax seal is the S**T man! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Coax seal. On 1/11/10, Jason Hensley ja...@jaggartech.com wrote: Our luck hasn't been good with that. Other ideas / possibilities? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:23 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Ice works. :) Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self vulcanizing tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of crusty stuff trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing chemical or the sticky or whatever but it went on just fine. Temp was around 20 degrees. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Hey guys. What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30* or colder)? N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that we could use to replace this one with. Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
Coax-Seal. http://www.amazon.com/Coax-Seal-ft-Pro-Pack/dp/B00075J4JG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8s=electronicsqid=1263234681sr=8-3 We use it on everything and in every temperature. Travis Microserv Jason Hensley wrote: Hey guys. What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30* or colder)? N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that we could use to replace this one with. Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
The Andrew way has always been wide mastic/coax seal/good electrical tape. The mastic keeps the coax seal out of the threads The coax seal seals The electrical tape protects the coax seal Always wrap like you're roofing; bottom up. Mike -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:15 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Hey guys. What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30* or colder)? N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that we could use to replace this one with. Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
The key to using ice is to keep it cold all year. For the self-vulcanizing tape, I find it works by putting it on the defroster vent of the truck while driving to the site and then keeping it in an inside pocket until ready to use it. Jason Hensley wrote: Our luck hasn't been good with that. Other ideas / possibilities? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:23 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Ice works. :) Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self vulcanizing tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of crusty stuff trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing chemical or the sticky or whatever but it went on just fine. Temp was around 20 degrees. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Hey guys. What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30* or colder)? N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that we could use to replace this one with. Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Sr. Systems Engineer GAB Midwest 1-800-363-1544 x4000 Cell: 260-273-7239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
Ditto. On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Coax seal. On 1/11/10, Jason Hensley ja...@jaggartech.com wrote: Our luck hasn't been good with that. Other ideas / possibilities? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:23 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Ice works. :) Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self vulcanizing tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of crusty stuff trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing chemical or the sticky or whatever but it went on just fine. Temp was around 20 degrees. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Hey guys. What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30* or colder)? N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that we could use to replace this one with. Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
Wow... I wish I had a dollar for every time this subject is discussed. I would be in the Caribbean right now. :-) Its kinda like the Windows/Linux discussion... -B- RickG wrote: Ditto. On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Coax seal. On 1/11/10, Jason Hensley ja...@jaggartech.com wrote: Our luck hasn't been good with that. Other ideas / possibilities? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:23 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Ice works. :) Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self vulcanizing tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of crusty stuff trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing chemical or the sticky or whatever but it went on just fine. Temp was around 20 degrees. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Hey guys. What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30* or colder)? N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that we could use to replace this one with. Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
LOL, do you invest in the futures market!?! I'd bet it will come up again! -r On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net wrote: Wow... I wish I had a dollar for every time this subject is discussed. I would be in the Caribbean right now. :-) Its kinda like the Windows/Linux discussion... -B- RickG wrote: Ditto. On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Coax seal. On 1/11/10, Jason Hensley ja...@jaggartech.com wrote: Our luck hasn't been good with that. Other ideas / possibilities? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:23 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Ice works. :) Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self vulcanizing tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of crusty stuff trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing chemical or the sticky or whatever but it went on just fine. Temp was around 20 degrees. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Hey guys. What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30* or colder)? N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that we could use to replace this one with. Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
Right, when I first saw this topic come up a gazillion years ago I should have become a chemist and materials engineer to come up with the perfect product. I'd be in the box seats for sure! Patrick Leary Aperto Networks 813.426.4230 mobile -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:40 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Wow... I wish I had a dollar for every time this subject is discussed. I would be in the Caribbean right now. :-) Its kinda like the Windows/Linux discussion... -B- RickG wrote: Ditto. On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Coax seal. On 1/11/10, Jason Hensley ja...@jaggartech.com wrote: Our luck hasn't been good with that. Other ideas / possibilities? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:23 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Ice works. :) Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self vulcanizing tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of crusty stuff trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing chemical or the sticky or whatever but it went on just fine. Temp was around 20 degrees. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Hey guys. What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30* or colder)? N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that we could use to replace this one with. Thanks! - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein - --- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ - --- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ -- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
I think Jason's angle is that products often times have an application temperature range that is less than the temperature way in which they'll do their job. What everyone does may well work fine at 70 degrees ambient, but at 30 or -50, what works? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 2:39 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Wow... I wish I had a dollar for every time this subject is discussed. I would be in the Caribbean right now. :-) Its kinda like the Windows/Linux discussion... -B- RickG wrote: Ditto. On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Coax seal. On 1/11/10, Jason Hensley ja...@jaggartech.com wrote: Our luck hasn't been good with that. Other ideas / possibilities? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:23 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Ice works. :) Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self vulcanizing tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of crusty stuff trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing chemical or the sticky or whatever but it went on just fine. Temp was around 20 degrees. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Hey guys. What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30* or colder)? N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that we could use to replace this one with. Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless
Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
On 1/11/10 3:47 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: at ... -50, what works? Not me, that's for sure! -- Josh Cheney josh.che...@gmail.com http://www.joshcheney.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
This topic got quite a bit off from Marlon's original post, but getting back to that, what I've done more than once with the local cable company is what I guess would fit in the category of social engineering, that is I imitate what I've heard their techs say when they get stumped and call in to their own tech support. When the person on the other end of their tech support answers I say level two please with an air of confidence and impatience. I get right through to someone who knows their ascii from their elbow. Greg On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:34 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Time Warner does offer an SLA on their Business Class. It's worked in our favor the three time its gone down in the 6 months that its been installed! Considering that, our wireless has been running five 9s to our business customers who chose us over the wired connections options. -RickG On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Stuart Pierce spie...@avolve.net wrote: I'm not sure I agree either, but wireless obviously can't be cut. With that though, our fiber hasn't been out more than twice in 5 years. -- Original Message -- From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:15:16 -0600 I'm not sure that I agree that wireless has higher uptime than fiber. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:40 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Agreed, Brett. I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage, and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that. If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is you didn't buy a service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if you are down for a week, read the small print.. And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? Oh I used a low cost Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the Cable cos? Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any other technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other than Wireless for connectivity to a tower? Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive than a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate lower roof right fees. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Bret Clark To: WISPA General List Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers. We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without getting the run around from a telco. I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with! Bret Tom Sharples wrote: I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The fix was that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That has proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since. Tom S. - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us I have a tower down. It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link. Can't get to the main router at that local. So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a phone number for tech support. IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I couldn't find it. So, I decided to try the online chat thingy. Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code. Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes. Only to get an error. So I tried again, and again. Finally I actually READ what the smallish print
Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
We use the same mastic and 33+ tape that we normally do. Before you go to the site, put it on the dash with the defrost on to get it warmed up well. Then put the tape INSIDE your shirt, that'll keep it fairly warm. Once up there, work really fast :-). marlon - Original Message - From: Jason Hensley ja...@jaggartech.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:15 AM Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Hey guys. What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30* or colder)? N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that we could use to replace this one with. Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?
By stopping it before it starts People here know what it'll do to their bill. Sometimes it happens anyway. Usually people don't know it's happening. When we catch someone in the act we call them as soon as we can and see what they are up to. If it's just a big download we let it go and people just have to understand that that's going to happen from time to time. Just like busy signals used to happen sometimes. If we can't get ahold of them to get them to stop or justify it, we leave a message on the phone and block them till they call. Better to piss off one customer than 40... marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:24 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot? Marlon, as you know I've been a proponent of usage based billing since I've been in broadband. But, whether you bill for it or not, PTP still eats up the AP to the point it slows it down for everyone. How do you get around that? -RickG On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Hiya Roman, We bill per bit. That way we don't care what the customer is doing, all we're worried about is how much they uses. Run edonkey and you'll get an extra bill. Download Netflix and you'll get an extra bill etc. MOST of the time we catch virus's for our customers. It's actually a pretty good sales tool. Netflix is changing that somewhat though. marlon - Original Message - From: Roman consulttele...@gmail.com To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 3:34 AM Subject: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot? Dear readers, Do you have any experience with successful blocking of P2P (eDonkey, Torrents etc.) traffic in your wireless networks? Any user who uses torrent client at his PC can effectively consume a lot of bandwidth of Wi-Fi access point, leaving other honest users with small portion of throughput. Port blocking does not help because nowadays P2P clients use random ports, encryption and other means to hide traffic patterns. I suppose that only one distinctive feature of such traffic exists: its ability to consume effective bandwidth. Do you happen to know or use any traffic shaping tools which can limit throughput per user? Thank you in advance for any thoghts, ideas etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
LOL That's gotta be the same thing we've used for years. http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MElectrical/Home/ProductsServices/Products/?PC_7_RJH9U5230GE3E02LECIE20OES1_nid=0L2RH0Z4C7beV8CW66MTMZgl NEVER had a leak. marlon - Original Message - From: Travis Johnson t...@ida.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:31 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Coax-Seal. http://www.amazon.com/Coax-Seal-ft-Pro-Pack/dp/B00075J4JG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8s=electronicsqid=1263234681sr=8-3 We use it on everything and in every temperature. Travis Microserv Jason Hensley wrote: Hey guys. What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30* or colder)? N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that we could use to replace this one with. Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
Yes, that's the biggest thing is that during our cold weather we've had here the past week or so (0* with -15 wind chills - not a normal thing here in Southern Missouri) our current weather seal methods aren't easy to install. Sure, we could do it inside and would work fine but we get up on a tower in this cold and the tapes get just a bit too stiff for us to use, and hate to climb twice to pull an antenna down just to water seal it on the ground in a warm environment. Luckily we have better days now. Got up to 40 or so today and should be that way all week. MUCH better!!! Normal weather we don't have issues with water sealing - we have found a great system that works for us - rubber/mastic tape with electrical tape over that and on occasion, silicone for those connectors that we can't quite get the tape down into adequately. Thanks for the recommendations guys. Appreciate all the help that this list is. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 2:47 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather I think Jason's angle is that products often times have an application temperature range that is less than the temperature way in which they'll do their job. What everyone does may well work fine at 70 degrees ambient, but at 30 or -50, what works? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 2:39 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Wow... I wish I had a dollar for every time this subject is discussed. I would be in the Caribbean right now. :-) Its kinda like the Windows/Linux discussion... -B- RickG wrote: Ditto. On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: Coax seal. On 1/11/10, Jason Hensley ja...@jaggartech.com wrote: Our luck hasn't been good with that. Other ideas / possibilities? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:23 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Ice works. :) Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self vulcanizing tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of crusty stuff trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing chemical or the sticky or whatever but it went on just fine. Temp was around 20 degrees. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Jason Hensley Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather Hey guys. What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30* or colder)? N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that we could use to replace this one with. Thanks! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:
[WISPA] Firetide.....
Anyone have any good, bad or otherwise on this mesh product..per se. ??? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Firetide.....
Good Stuff!! We've got our whole City running on it. So far, all of the Fire Departments, and recently added about a dozen traffic signals. If the City adds the Red Light cameras, they're planning on using these as well. -Gary- - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:24 PM Subject: [WISPA] Firetide. Anyone have any good, bad or otherwise on this mesh product..per se. ??? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?
OK, so your finding most wont or dont do it since they know they'll have to pay for the bandwidth? -RickG On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: By stopping it before it starts People here know what it'll do to their bill. Sometimes it happens anyway. Usually people don't know it's happening. When we catch someone in the act we call them as soon as we can and see what they are up to. If it's just a big download we let it go and people just have to understand that that's going to happen from time to time. Just like busy signals used to happen sometimes. If we can't get ahold of them to get them to stop or justify it, we leave a message on the phone and block them till they call. Better to piss off one customer than 40... marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:24 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot? Marlon, as you know I've been a proponent of usage based billing since I've been in broadband. But, whether you bill for it or not, PTP still eats up the AP to the point it slows it down for everyone. How do you get around that? -RickG On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Hiya Roman, We bill per bit. That way we don't care what the customer is doing, all we're worried about is how much they uses. Run edonkey and you'll get an extra bill. Download Netflix and you'll get an extra bill etc. MOST of the time we catch virus's for our customers. It's actually a pretty good sales tool. Netflix is changing that somewhat though. marlon - Original Message - From: Roman consulttele...@gmail.com To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 3:34 AM Subject: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot? Dear readers, Do you have any experience with successful blocking of P2P (eDonkey, Torrents etc.) traffic in your wireless networks? Any user who uses torrent client at his PC can effectively consume a lot of bandwidth of Wi-Fi access point, leaving other honest users with small portion of throughput. Port blocking does not help because nowadays P2P clients use random ports, encryption and other means to hide traffic patterns. I suppose that only one distinctive feature of such traffic exists: its ability to consume effective bandwidth. Do you happen to know or use any traffic shaping tools which can limit throughput per user? Thank you in advance for any thoghts, ideas etc... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Firetide.....
What city? And should I assume there is no video on the system? Tx Bob KosiNet Wireless wrote: Good Stuff!! We've got our whole City running on it. So far, all of the Fire Departments, and recently added about a dozen traffic signals. If the City adds the Red Light cameras, they're planning on using these as well. -Gary- - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:24 PM Subject: [WISPA] Firetide. Anyone have any good, bad or otherwise on this mesh product..per se. ??? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Firetide.....
Mansfield, Ohio No Video yet, mostly running Internet surfing, Email, and Microsoft Terminal Services at the Fire Stations - Stoplight controllers all connect back to a single controller. -Gary- - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Firetide. What city? And should I assume there is no video on the system? Tx Bob KosiNet Wireless wrote: Good Stuff!! We've got our whole City running on it. So far, all of the Fire Departments, and recently added about a dozen traffic signals. If the City adds the Red Light cameras, they're planning on using these as well. -Gary- - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:24 PM Subject: [WISPA] Firetide. Anyone have any good, bad or otherwise on this mesh product..per se. ??? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Firetide....
Miss Ohio Festival and Snowtrails ( which ought to be loving the season ). How's that system funded ? -- Original Message -- From: KosiNet Wireless wirel...@kosinet.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 22:16:30 -0500 Mansfield, Ohio No Video yet, mostly running Internet surfing, Email, and Microsoft Terminal Services at the Fire Stations - Stoplight controllers all connect back to a single controller. -Gary- - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Firetide. What city? And should I assume there is no video on the system? Tx Bob KosiNet Wireless wrote: Good Stuff!! We've got our whole City running on it. So far, all of the Fire Departments, and recently added about a dozen traffic signals. If the City adds the Red Light cameras, they're planning on using these as well. -Gary- - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:24 PM Subject: [WISPA] Firetide. Anyone have any good, bad or otherwise on this mesh product..per se. ??? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Sent via the WebMail system at avolve.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Firetide....
Miss Ohio - Embarq / Now CenturyLink is a local Telco - they kick some big $$ to the City for these Events. Although, with the Firetide Setup, the City has shut off at least (6) T1's from them. Now that we've got a couple of years under our belt with this system, they're looking at expanding it. Snow Trails is out of our reach for wireless - I'm not sure what they're doing. - Original Message - From: Stuart Pierce spie...@avolve.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:39 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Firetide Miss Ohio Festival and Snowtrails ( which ought to be loving the season ). How's that system funded ? -- Original Message -- From: KosiNet Wireless wirel...@kosinet.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 22:16:30 -0500 Mansfield, Ohio No Video yet, mostly running Internet surfing, Email, and Microsoft Terminal Services at the Fire Stations - Stoplight controllers all connect back to a single controller. -Gary- - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Firetide. What city? And should I assume there is no video on the system? Tx Bob KosiNet Wireless wrote: Good Stuff!! We've got our whole City running on it. So far, all of the Fire Departments, and recently added about a dozen traffic signals. If the City adds the Red Light cameras, they're planning on using these as well. -Gary- - Original Message - From: Bob Moldashel lakel...@gbcx.net To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:24 PM Subject: [WISPA] Firetide. Anyone have any good, bad or otherwise on this mesh product..per se. ??? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Sent via the WebMail system at avolve.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Ubnt and OSPF
I'm having issues with OSPF (Mikrotik) traversing an Airmax sector. Network consists of a Routerboard running 4.1, connected to a Rocket sector running XM.v5.1. Client radio is a Nanostation also running XM.v5.1, connected to a Routerboard running 4.2. The first routerboard has a number of ospf neighbors on the same interface the Rocket is connected to (there is a switch between the physical interface and the Rocket) but when a neighbor relationship is established over the UBNT link, strange things happen. Running a traceroute to the loopback address of the MT results in a routing loop, with the Nanostation showing up as a L3 hop. I have yet to do a packet dump, but my guess is that somehow the UBNT radio is mangling the OSPF multicast traffic and inserting itself in to the path. The notes on the UBNT forum regarding OSPF seem to indicate that enabling multicast forwarding on the radio is all that is required. See below for the MT OSPF config. /routing ospf instance set default comment= disabled=no distribute-default=never in-filter=ospf-in metric-bgp=20 metric-connected=20 metric-default=1 metric-other-ospf=\ auto metric-rip=20 metric-static=20 name=default out-filter=ospf-out redistribute-bgp=no redistribute-connected=no redistribute-other-ospf=no \ redistribute-rip=no redistribute-static=no router-id=10.254.12.3 /routing ospf area set backbone area-id=0.0.0.0 comment= disabled=no instance=default name=backbone type=default add area-id=0.0.0.1 comment= disabled=no instance=default name=1 type=default /routing ospf interface add authentication=md5 authentication-key=secret authentication-key-id=1 comment= cost=10 dead-interval=40s disabled=no hello-interval=10s \ instance-id=0 interface=wlan1 network-type=broadcast passive=no priority=1 retransmit-interval=5s transmit-delay=1s add authentication=md5 authentication-key=secret authentication-key-id=1 comment= cost=10 dead-interval=40s disabled=no hello-interval=10s \ instance-id=0 interface=ether1 network-type=broadcast passive=no priority=1 retransmit-interval=5s transmit-delay=1s /routing ospf network add area=1 comment= disabled=no network=10.0.0.0/8 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ubnt and OSPF
Make sure you have Multicast Data enabled or whatever on the Advanced tab. Pulled my hair out over this for a couple days, then realized if it's not checked, you get one-way OSPF. Checked it, rebooted, and everything has been happy since. On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Jeremy Parr jeremyp...@gmail.com wrote: I'm having issues with OSPF (Mikrotik) traversing an Airmax sector. Network consists of a Routerboard running 4.1, connected to a Rocket sector running XM.v5.1. Client radio is a Nanostation also running XM.v5.1, connected to a Routerboard running 4.2. The first routerboard has a number of ospf neighbors on the same interface the Rocket is connected to (there is a switch between the physical interface and the Rocket) but when a neighbor relationship is established over the UBNT link, strange things happen. Running a traceroute to the loopback address of the MT results in a routing loop, with the Nanostation showing up as a L3 hop. I have yet to do a packet dump, but my guess is that somehow the UBNT radio is mangling the OSPF multicast traffic and inserting itself in to the path. The notes on the UBNT forum regarding OSPF seem to indicate that enabling multicast forwarding on the radio is all that is required. See below for the MT OSPF config. /routing ospf instance set default comment= disabled=no distribute-default=never in-filter=ospf-in metric-bgp=20 metric-connected=20 metric-default=1 metric-other-ospf=\ auto metric-rip=20 metric-static=20 name=default out-filter=ospf-out redistribute-bgp=no redistribute-connected=no redistribute-other-ospf=no \ redistribute-rip=no redistribute-static=no router-id=10.254.12.3 /routing ospf area set backbone area-id=0.0.0.0 comment= disabled=no instance=default name=backbone type=default add area-id=0.0.0.1 comment= disabled=no instance=default name=1 type=default /routing ospf interface add authentication=md5 authentication-key=secret authentication-key-id=1 comment= cost=10 dead-interval=40s disabled=no hello-interval=10s \ instance-id=0 interface=wlan1 network-type=broadcast passive=no priority=1 retransmit-interval=5s transmit-delay=1s add authentication=md5 authentication-key=secret authentication-key-id=1 comment= cost=10 dead-interval=40s disabled=no hello-interval=10s \ instance-id=0 interface=ether1 network-type=broadcast passive=no priority=1 retransmit-interval=5s transmit-delay=1s /routing ospf network add area=1 comment= disabled=no network=10.0.0.0/8 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Network Gigabit Switch Recommendations
Need to upgrade several 10/100 switches to 10/100/100; I'm looking for recommendations on good reliable equipment. Will need 24 and 48 port units, Rx/Tx port mirroring is a must! Thanks in advance, Scott WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Network Gigabit Switch Recommendations
Lotsa used Cisco out there -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Network Gigabit Switch Recommendations Need to upgrade several 10/100 switches to 10/100/100; I'm looking for recommendations on good reliable equipment. Will need 24 and 48 port units, Rx/Tx port mirroring is a must! Thanks in advance, Scott WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
