Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3?
I do. ;-) The difference, however, is that our livelihoods are telecommunications and far too often people don't know what's around them. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 7/20/2010 11:24 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: Well .. it is like plumbing How many of us know the Plumbing and Drainage infrastructure in our areas ? (Myself very little, cause I don't have to deal with it... :) ) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 7/20/2010 11:57 PM, RickG wrote: It amazes me how little people know about telecommunications infrastructure - or lack thereof. On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Mike Hammettwispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Agreed. It amazes me how little people know about the telecommunications infrastructure in their area. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 7/20/2010 5:57 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: I have been quietly watching this discussion I don't claim to be an expert, but being a wire line ISP, let me add / clarify some thoughts / facts T1 / T3 or DS3 / OC3 are all TDM / Legacy services T1, can be extended (long distance) via field repeaters... (T1's are based on HDSL technology and go about 12000ft from the CO or Repeater.) T3/DS3 are peeled off OC3 or Sonet (optical) MuxesThese are larger expensive pieces of equipment that require a lot of power and are fiber fed. While all of the legacy TDM services are regulated (i.e the price is disclosed on a tariff) but the ILEC is allowed to recover build out costs... these costs are high, in addition, the ILEC's are also aware that these High Cap transports are used by other Competitors and as such exercise full discretion on discouraging purchase of these circuits, by using extra inflated build out costs, and if you agree to pay that, then the 2nd option they use is extra extra long build out time schedule... 9 to 12 months easy. For Enterprise customers, they will do the build at no cost or little cost, but the Enterprise customer also has to provide them with space and power, typically 2-3 racks of space and 20-40 amps of power. Today, the ILEC's are not interested in doing such buildout, unless someone is buying SONET transport from them or a bundle of multiple DS3's / OC'3 combination, and there are a few more if's... The most cost effective form of transport that an ISP / WISP can purchase from a Carrier (ILEC or Cable Co or another type of provider) would be Ethernet .. 100Meg or Gig E While these are un-regulated services, which means an ILEC's can exercise their discretion on providing this type of service to you and I or another Carrier however in many places (typically office buildings in a metro downtown area) would have equipment / fiber already installed that they can deliver the service at that location. These days the local Cable Company who has been doing fiber build outs for their cable plants is also pretty eager to sell IP Transit or Ethernet Transport over the Fiber system.. Most of them are working on a pretty fair means of pricing the fiber service and will not discriminate against service providers... (most of them...) Another often overlooked fiber carrier is the local Power Company. Most power companies have a Fiber / Network Division they have been the largest providers of dark fiber for a lot of carriers (including cell carriers, when they cell carriers were not owned by the ILEC and the ILEC would not provide them high speed pipes to the cell towers..). But these folks are normally harder to track down unless they are aggressively selling services... I often collect Network Maps from carriers and competitive service providers, just to be able to find out what are On-Net locations for them... make life much easier in determining where to pickup the service from rather than having them do the buildout and bring them to where you are Hope this helps. Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 7/20/2010 6:19 PM, RickG wrote: In my previous life as an ATT Cellular switch manager, we had hundreds of T1's T3's ordered that never came in - yes, I mean never. And we practically had a blank check! -RickG On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Kristian Hoffmannkh...@fire2wire.com wrote: After about a year of getting the same response from ATT after multiple order requests at different locations across our network, the guy in charge of building out fiber for the region called and said what in the world are you guys doing?!? He ended up giving us the location of a few fiber terminals in the area. We found the ones
Re: [WISPA] Has anyone used Mediacomm Fiber for their backbone?
One of the cable companies I talked to a couple years ago said they couldn't resell to an ISP because of their contract with ATT forbid it. They were working to get out from under that. Christine Montalvo Senior Data Account Executive Mediacom Enterprise Networks Group 3737 Westown Parkway West Des Moines, Ia 50266 Office: 515-246-2251 Cell: 515-360-0015 Email: cmonta...@mediacomcc.com mailto:cmonta...@mediacomcc.com - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 7/20/2010 11:52 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: I have a connection to me across the state line that can be easily back hauled across the TN/KY line. In TN, the rural telco's rule the roost, and love to add on to the last mile charges . I have a tower that can easily reach into KY within 20 miles. Mediacomm has a tower within 16 miles that I can reach. I have asked them to price me bandwidth on fiber to their tower in KY, and the price to locate my back haul on their tower(their tower is almost 500' tall, so I can almost pick my area on that tower, if they allow). Have any of you guy's or gal's dealt with Mediacomm before? The problem is that I can't get a bandwidth quote, much less a tower quote out of them! I contacted them with a question of fiber availability and quickly got a response. Once I told them I was an ISP and wanted to back-haul it across the TN/KY border, everything went to a stand still. They had no problem quoting me bandwidth on fiber with a KY address about a year before. I also told them that I was an ISP in TN and my whole intentions of back hauling it. I am at a standstill with dealing with Mediacomm. Their pricing a few years ago, was much less than what I am paying now. I have repeatedly emailed the contact, and she has gotten back to me once in the last 2 months. The reply back was that she had been on vacation the week before and she was still awaiting pricing from the higher ups. She also told me the tower crew wanted to talk to me about what I wanted to mount on the tower...I told her the number to contact me at almost 2 weeks ago, and have not heard from them either. I guess my question is, have any of you dealt with Mediacomm before, and is my situation usual...or unusual? Scottie WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] alvarion vl grounding
We have looked as well, but with the VL's using the 55VDC there does not seem to be anything else available. Would possibly be interested in purchasing with you direct if that will help our pricing more. Hit me offline if you want to discuss that as it is probably not list appropriate. Thanks! * Larry A. Weidig (lwei...@excel.net) * Excel.Net,Inc. - http://www.excel.net/ * (920) 452-0455 - Sheboygan/Plymouth area * (888) 489-9995 - Other areas, toll-free -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Cameron Kilton Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 10:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] alvarion vl grounding We have been using Transtector ALPU-ALVR units, they work great, but the price on these units keeps climbing higher and higher it seems. They are at almost $200/unit with tessco. Transtector directly gave me a better price for a quantity purchase, but before I move forward with that, I would like to know if anybody is using another product with good success. -- Thanks, Cameron WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Wiki page for pictures and notes from the St. Louis meeting
http://wiki.wispa.org/index.php/Events:WISPA_Regional_Meeting_St._Louis_July_21-22,_2010 Thanks, Brough Turner Skype: brough Mobile: +1 617 285 0433 http://blogs.broughturner.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3?
The most cost effective form of transport that an ISP / WISP can purchase from a Carrier (ILEC or Cable Co or another type of provider) would be Ethernet .. 100Meg or Gig E While these are un-regulated services, which means an ILEC's can exercise their discretion on providing this type of service to you and I or another Carrier however in many places I have begged ATT for an ethernet option but they keep saying its not available and no ETA. Last time I asked was about 6 months ago though. I think in rural areas where you have no other options they know it. At least it seems like it. Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Moto Canopy Surplus
Hello, A quick shout out to the folks using Motorola Canopy I have qty. 10 of 5700 SM (P9) new in box, with 10 Surge protectors and 10 power supplies 10 brand new reflector dishes forsale. These were purchased for a project that never happened If anyone is interested, please drop me an email off line and let me know what would be a fair value for these. Thanks. -- Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3?
Talk with your power coop to see if there is fiber in the area. Talk with your chamber, city council, whatever to find out if there is anything in the area (or close to the area) for fiber. We are very rural but are also able to get fiber backhaul to some major metros. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Matt Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 9:29 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3? The most cost effective form of transport that an ISP / WISP can purchase from a Carrier (ILEC or Cable Co or another type of provider) would be Ethernet .. 100Meg or Gig E While these are un-regulated services, which means an ILEC's can exercise their discretion on providing this type of service to you and I or another Carrier however in many places I have begged ATT for an ethernet option but they keep saying its not available and no ETA. Last time I asked was about 6 months ago though. I think in rural areas where you have no other options they know it. At least it seems like it. Matt WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ping --- Radio Mobile Hates Me.
Radio Mobile hates everyone that doesn't use it every day. grin marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West To: WISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 7:38 PM Subject: [WISPA] Ping --- Radio Mobile Hates Me. Ping. (Had to) Bob- Still fighting the animal that is Radio Mobile. Why does Radio mobile Hate Me? I should have been a HAM. Maybe it's just bad Karma -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ping --- Radio Mobile Hates Me.
At 7/21/2010 11:41 AM, MarlonS wrote: Radio Mobile hates everyone that doesn't use it every day. It's a great tool, but boy is it frustrating! Roger has done a wonderful thing by putting this out there for free and improving it as he has. But there are so many things that could be done to improve it, especially the clumsy user interface. If it were an open source project, then more people could contribute to the effort. If he had a premium payware version, then he'd have incentive to at least prettify the pay version. Documentation wouldn't hurt either... My current project has set up three networks using the same batch of nodes. One is 5.8 GHz backhaul. One is 900 MHz backhaul, for heavy-forest paths. One is 5.8 GHz access. When it does the show networks, it doesn't seem to find the best path, but it's not terribly predictable as to which common network it's using. So I end up having to do path-by-path comparisons anyway. My next chore is to add antenna patterns. I think this means taking each node and turning it into two or three nodes, if it has two or three separate sectors. I can save network as a CSV, but that seems to only save the node locations. Copying network parameters between projects seems impossible. :=( grin marlon - Original Message - From: mailto:robert.w...@just-micro.comRobert West To: mailto:wireless@wispa.orgWISPA General List Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 7:38 PM Subject: [WISPA] Ping --- Radio Mobile Hates Me. Ping. (Had to) Bob- Still fighting the animal that is Radio Mobile. Why does Radio mobile Hate Me? I should have been a HAM. Maybe it's just bad Karma .. -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/ +1 617 795 2701 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3?
Very true. I'll add that my story is 4 years old, and the T3s mentioned have already or are being switched to Ethernet services. Didn't help that it took 9 months to finally get a hold of a Charter wholesale/ISP rep. :-| It also took us 6-7 months from yes send me the contract to turn-up with our ATT Ethernet circuit, even though there was active ATT fiber at our POP. -Kristian On Tue, 2010-07-20 at 18:57 -0400, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: I have been quietly watching this discussion I don't claim to be an expert, but being a wire line ISP, let me add / clarify some thoughts / facts T1 / T3 or DS3 / OC3 are all TDM / Legacy services T1, can be extended (long distance) via field repeaters... (T1's are based on HDSL technology and go about 12000ft from the CO or Repeater.) T3/DS3 are peeled off OC3 or Sonet (optical) MuxesThese are larger expensive pieces of equipment that require a lot of power and are fiber fed. While all of the legacy TDM services are regulated (i.e the price is disclosed on a tariff) but the ILEC is allowed to recover build out costs... these costs are high, in addition, the ILEC's are also aware that these High Cap transports are used by other Competitors and as such exercise full discretion on discouraging purchase of these circuits, by using extra inflated build out costs, and if you agree to pay that, then the 2nd option they use is extra extra long build out time schedule... 9 to 12 months easy. For Enterprise customers, they will do the build at no cost or little cost, but the Enterprise customer also has to provide them with space and power, typically 2-3 racks of space and 20-40 amps of power. Today, the ILEC's are not interested in doing such buildout, unless someone is buying SONET transport from them or a bundle of multiple DS3's / OC'3 combination, and there are a few more if's... The most cost effective form of transport that an ISP / WISP can purchase from a Carrier (ILEC or Cable Co or another type of provider) would be Ethernet .. 100Meg or Gig E While these are un-regulated services, which means an ILEC's can exercise their discretion on providing this type of service to you and I or another Carrier however in many places (typically office buildings in a metro downtown area) would have equipment / fiber already installed that they can deliver the service at that location. These days the local Cable Company who has been doing fiber build outs for their cable plants is also pretty eager to sell IP Transit or Ethernet Transport over the Fiber system.. Most of them are working on a pretty fair means of pricing the fiber service and will not discriminate against service providers... (most of them...) Another often overlooked fiber carrier is the local Power Company. Most power companies have a Fiber / Network Division they have been the largest providers of dark fiber for a lot of carriers (including cell carriers, when they cell carriers were not owned by the ILEC and the ILEC would not provide them high speed pipes to the cell towers..). But these folks are normally harder to track down unless they are aggressively selling services... I often collect Network Maps from carriers and competitive service providers, just to be able to find out what are On-Net locations for them... make life much easier in determining where to pickup the service from rather than having them do the buildout and bring them to where you are Hope this helps. Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 7/20/2010 6:19 PM, RickG wrote: In my previous life as an ATT Cellular switch manager, we had hundreds of T1's T3's ordered that never came in - yes, I mean never. And we practically had a blank check! -RickG On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Kristian Hoffmannkh...@fire2wire.com wrote: After about a year of getting the same response from ATT after multiple order requests at different locations across our network, the guy in charge of building out fiber for the region called and said what in the world are you guys doing?!? He ended up giving us the location of a few fiber terminals in the area. We found the ones closest to our network, made an agreement with a tenant nearby, and did a wireless PtP to connect it to our network. Moral of the story, we were shooting in the dark until we had an in in the right department at ATT. On a related note, does anyone have an experience with Charter's fiber services? -- Kristian Hoffmann System Administrator kh...@fire2wire.com http://www.fire2wire.com Office - 209-543-1800 | Fax - 209-545-1469 | Toll Free - 800-905-FIRE On Mon, 2010-07-19 at 22:33 -0500, Roger Howard wrote: Quick alert to those
Re: [WISPA] Ping --- Radio Mobile Hates Me.
Thus is hates me. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 11:42 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Ping --- Radio Mobile Hates Me. Radio Mobile hates everyone that doesn't use it every day. grin marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West mailto:robert.w...@just-micro.com To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 7:38 PM Subject: [WISPA] Ping --- Radio Mobile Hates Me. Ping. (Had to) Bob- Still fighting the animal that is Radio Mobile. Why does Radio mobile Hate Me? I should have been a HAM. Maybe it's just bad Karma _ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Has anyone used Mediacomm Fiber for their backbone?
I hope they do. It seems crazy they painted the USA with a wide brush in the contract. ATT is not within 90 miles of me. I can get ATT data lines, but it goes through many local telco loops on the way here. Scottie One of the cable companies I talked to a couple years ago said they couldn't resell to an ISP because of their contract with ATT forbid it. They were working to get out from under that. Christine Montalvo Senior Data Account Executive Mediacom Enterprise Networks Group 3737 Westown Parkway West Des Moines, Ia 50266 Office: 515-246-2251 Cell: 515-360-0015 Email: cmonta...@mediacomcc.com mailto:cmonta...@mediacomcc.com - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 7/20/2010 11:52 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: I have a connection to me across the state line that can be easily back hauled across the TN/KY line. In TN, the rural telco's rule the roost, and love to add on to the last mile charges . I have a tower that can easily reach into KY within 20 miles. Mediacomm has a tower within 16 miles that I can reach. I have asked them to price me bandwidth on fiber to their tower in KY, and the price to locate my back haul on their tower(their tower is almost 500' tall, so I can almost pick my area on that tower, if they allow). Have any of you guy's or gal's dealt with Mediacomm before? The problem is that I can't get a bandwidth quote, much less a tower quote out of them! I contacted them with a question of fiber availability and quickly got a response. Once I told them I was an ISP and wanted to back-haul it across the TN/KY border, everything went to a stand still. They had no problem quoting me bandwidth on fiber with a KY address about a year before. I also told them that I was an ISP in TN and my whole intentions of back hauling it. I am at a standstill with dealing with Mediacomm. Their pricing a few years ago, was much less than what I am paying now. I have repeatedly emailed the contact, and she has gotten back to me once in the last 2 months. The reply back was that she had been on vacation the week before and she was still awaiting pricing from the higher ups. She also told me the tower crew wanted to talk to me about what I wanted to mount on the tower...I told her the number to contact me at almost 2 weeks ago, and have not heard from them either. I guess my question is, have any of you dealt with Mediacomm before, and is my situation usual...or unusual? Scottie WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Ping --- Radio Mobile Hates Me.
If you have, join the Yahoo RM group. Lots of help there. Plus links to at least 2 tutorials. Roger does this for a living and his employer sells a very nice commercial package. They have been nice enough to allow him to to RM for free, so we get a super program at no cost. This also means that Open Source is out, as I am sure the source is too similar to their commercial package. If you want the pay version, I am sure an e-mail to him would get you company contact information. There are at least 2 users that have done documentation and step-by-step tutorials. Again, available from the Yahoo group. If you just do the radio link function, it does not choose the best network, it chooses the first network that both end-points are a member of. There is a tutorial for best path analysis and it works fairly well. The only time I would see a need for antenna patterns is if you have a fixed-base AP and mobile CPE. If both are fixed-base, I am not sure what the patterns will gain you. I do the same thing; I have a 5.8 network, a 2.4 network and a 900 network. Most of my POPs are setup with 3 120* sectors, so all POPs are setup with an omni of the same gain as the sector antenna. In my experience so far, the results are fairly accurate when there is clear line-of-sight. If there are a significant number of trees in the path, it obviously is not so good. I suppose if you have 2 90* sectors trying to cover 360* you would want patterns to find the nulls and edges, but if you have antennas for full coverage, the pattern probably is not so important. For point to point links, antenna pattern does not matter , assuming you are planning to aim the antennas directly at each other as that is the assumption RM makes. The Yahoo group has also had discussions about exports and imports. There are several things you can do. Again, check out the tutorials. I would have to disagree about the need for many improvements. Granted, I have been using it for over 5 years, but I find everything to be where expected and do what it should. Roger is open to suggestion, though. Let him know what you would like to see. Fred Goldstein wrote: At 7/21/2010 11:41 AM, MarlonS wrote: Radio Mobile hates everyone that doesn't use it every day. It's a great tool, but boy is it frustrating! Roger has done a wonderful thing by putting this out there for free and improving it as he has. But there are so many things that could be done to improve it, especially the clumsy user interface. If it were an open source project, then more people could contribute to the effort. If he had a premium payware version, then he'd have incentive to at least prettify the pay version. Documentation wouldn't hurt either... My current project has set up three networks using the same batch of nodes. One is 5.8 GHz backhaul. One is 900 MHz backhaul, for heavy-forest paths. One is 5.8 GHz access. When it does the show networks, it doesn't seem to find the best path, but it's not terribly predictable as to which common network it's using. So I end up having to do path-by-path comparisons anyway. My next chore is to add antenna patterns. I think this means taking each node and turning it into two or three nodes, if it has two or three separate sectors. I can save network as a CSV, but that seems to only save the node locations. Copying network parameters between projects seems impossible. :=( grin marlon - Original Message - From: Robert West mailto:robert.w...@just-micro.com To: WISPA General List mailto:wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 7:38 PM Subject: [WISPA] Ping --- Radio Mobile Hates Me. Ping. (Had to) Bob- Still fighting the animal that is Radio Mobile. Why does Radio mobile Hate Me? I should have been a HAM. Maybe it's just bad Karma WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein at ionary.com ionary Consultinghttp://www.ionary.com/ +1 617
Re: [WISPA] Ping --- Radio Mobile Hates Me.
At 7/21/2010 12:37 PM, Scott Reed wrote: If you have, join the Yahoo RM group. Lots of help there. Plus links to at least 2 tutorials. I've been there, and it helps. But it is not a substitute for a good collection of documentation. There's useful stuff on Roger's web site too, but it isn't always easy to figure out certain things, like when to use which mode to use for a network (spot, accidental, broadcast...) and what settings make the most sense. I use MapInfo a lot and it has thick manuals, the unabridged one being PDF only. Yes, it's expensive commercial software. I'm spoiled. ;-) I suppose a wiki might be a way for the community to collect its thoughts. I did see some interesting discussions on the Yahoo group about the nodes, and about the land cover. I roughly doubled the forest loss numbers, from Roger's default. This still might not be adequate, though, since it makes it seem *possible* to blast 5.8 GHz through the woods. Is 180 a good setting for most forests? Roger does this for a living and his employer sells a very nice commercial package. They have been nice enough to allow him to to RM for free, so we get a super program at no cost. This also means that Open Source is out, as I am sure the source is too similar to their commercial package. If you want the pay version, I am sure an e-mail to him would get you company contact information. What is the commercial product? He certainly hides any mention of it. If it's reasonable, I might look. I remember seeing an add-on for MapInfo, though. The price was roughly similar to the price of the local calling area database license. My car cost less, new. SPLAT looks to be a somewhat similar open source program, but much more limited in scope and not nearly as well updated. This is complicated stuff, I know. About 3/4 of the confusion might be solved by having a mouse-over help function, where you could right-click on a box and pop up a tutorial on what the values mean and how to set them. That could be an interesting volunteer project. Of course Roger's primary market is 2 meter repeaters, so the parameters we use in the WISP bands are a bit different... ...The only time I would see a need for antenna patterns is if you have a fixed-base AP and mobile CPE. If both are fixed-base, I am not sure what the patterns will gain you. I do the same thing; I have a 5.8 network, a 2.4 network and a 900 network. Most of my POPs are setup with 3 120* sectors, so all POPs are setup with an omni of the same gain as the sector antenna. In my experience so far, the results are fairly accurate when there is clear line-of-sight. If there are a significant number of trees in the path, it obviously is not so good. I suppose if you have 2 90* sectors trying to cover 360* you would want patterns to find the nulls and edges, but if you have antennas for full coverage, the pattern probably is not so important. For point to point links, antenna pattern does not matter , assuming you are planning to aim the antennas directly at each other as that is the assumption RM makes. Not all of the sectors need full-circle coverage, so I was thinking about using the model to see how it looked with partial coverage on some poles. This would save radios and antennas... In fact, with three sector radios and two backhaul radios (not to mention needing three backhaul radio degrees at mesh junctions), that exceeds the four-slot maximum of any one Routerboard, right? So do you often put back-to-back radios in one box? I think the only way to do sectors in RM is to treat them as separate radios, So if Unit 10 was three sectors, it might end up as say Units 10, 91, and 92, in the access network, right? The Yahoo group has also had discussions about exports and imports. There are several things you can do. Again, check out the tutorials. I would have to disagree about the need for many improvements. Granted, I have been using it for over 5 years, but I find everything to be where expected and do what it should. Roger is open to suggestion, though. Let him know what you would like to see. I don't want to disparage Roger and his great work; it's just little things. I just hate drop-downs, which RM's UI makes me use too often, especially for selecting radios. But also the fact that adding a radio requires going to both the unit properties and then the network properties is counter-intuitive and a bit clumsy. These sorts of things aren't show-stoppers, just places where it helps reduce one's sanity just a bit more. Which can be in short supply... Fred Goldstein wrote: At 7/21/2010 11:41 AM, MarlonS wrote: Radio Mobile hates everyone that doesn't use it every day. It's a great tool, but boy is it frustrating! Roger has done a wonderful thing by putting this out there for free and improving it as he has. But there are so many things that could be done to improve it,
Re: [WISPA] U.S. not getting broadband fast enough, FCC Says
Let's see... the Administration continues to implement wildly absurd and destructive policies, continues a mad dash desperate attempt to bankrupt the country with spending so insane it boggles the mind, continues to take over industries with regulatory legislation that makes less sense than chewing off your own fingers, continues to threaten to regulate ISP's like telephone companies, acts at the speed of a hesitant glacier at doing anything like opening up spectrum that normal (read, not possessing mega millions or billions of dollars) businesses can use... And they're wondering why the prospects for deployment seem bleak. How does one grab these people by the collar, shake them awake, and introduce them to reality? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] U.S. not getting broadband fast enough, FCC Says Yet, another push for broadband from the FCC: http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/web/07/20/fcc.broadband.access/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] U.S. not getting broadband fast enough, FCC Says
Well maybe instead of having these huge frickin applications for millions and dollars there should be easier access to say $100,000. I could cover a lot of area here in Oklahoma if I could get simple easy funding. Chris - Original Message - From: MDK rea...@muddyfrogwater.us To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] U.S. not getting broadband fast enough, FCC Says Let's see... the Administration continues to implement wildly absurd and destructive policies, continues a mad dash desperate attempt to bankrupt the country with spending so insane it boggles the mind, continues to take over industries with regulatory legislation that makes less sense than chewing off your own fingers, continues to threaten to regulate ISP's like telephone companies, acts at the speed of a hesitant glacier at doing anything like opening up spectrum that normal (read, not possessing mega millions or billions of dollars) businesses can use... And they're wondering why the prospects for deployment seem bleak. How does one grab these people by the collar, shake them awake, and introduce them to reality? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] U.S. not getting broadband fast enough, FCC Says Yet, another push for broadband from the FCC: http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/web/07/20/fcc.broadband.access/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3?
I've tried. Oh boy, have I tried! I look at every little telco farm along the road, cruise the railroad crossings looking for fiber, visit the county engineers office asking for maps of underground lines. Call the local telco/cable office, beat up the Time Warner guy or gal for info.. It's all one big ol' secret. OH! One county that I'm in, they have a guy whose only job is to HELP provide info for the betterment of business and to help the rural folk. His answer when I ask if he can find out fiber locations... His answer Wow, great idea! But... I dunno. End of conversation. Sucks. Me- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 10:48 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] What if you can't get a T3? Agreed. It amazes me how little people know about the telecommunications infrastructure in their area. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 7/20/2010 5:57 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: I have been quietly watching this discussion I don't claim to be an expert, but being a wire line ISP, let me add / clarify some thoughts / facts T1 / T3 or DS3 / OC3 are all TDM / Legacy services T1, can be extended (long distance) via field repeaters... (T1's are based on HDSL technology and go about 12000ft from the CO or Repeater.) T3/DS3 are peeled off OC3 or Sonet (optical) MuxesThese are larger expensive pieces of equipment that require a lot of power and are fiber fed. While all of the legacy TDM services are regulated (i.e the price is disclosed on a tariff) but the ILEC is allowed to recover build out costs... these costs are high, in addition, the ILEC's are also aware that these High Cap transports are used by other Competitors and as such exercise full discretion on discouraging purchase of these circuits, by using extra inflated build out costs, and if you agree to pay that, then the 2nd option they use is extra extra long build out time schedule... 9 to 12 months easy. For Enterprise customers, they will do the build at no cost or little cost, but the Enterprise customer also has to provide them with space and power, typically 2-3 racks of space and 20-40 amps of power. Today, the ILEC's are not interested in doing such buildout, unless someone is buying SONET transport from them or a bundle of multiple DS3's / OC'3 combination, and there are a few more if's... The most cost effective form of transport that an ISP / WISP can purchase from a Carrier (ILEC or Cable Co or another type of provider) would be Ethernet .. 100Meg or Gig E While these are un-regulated services, which means an ILEC's can exercise their discretion on providing this type of service to you and I or another Carrier however in many places (typically office buildings in a metro downtown area) would have equipment / fiber already installed that they can deliver the service at that location. These days the local Cable Company who has been doing fiber build outs for their cable plants is also pretty eager to sell IP Transit or Ethernet Transport over the Fiber system.. Most of them are working on a pretty fair means of pricing the fiber service and will not discriminate against service providers... (most of them...) Another often overlooked fiber carrier is the local Power Company. Most power companies have a Fiber / Network Division they have been the largest providers of dark fiber for a lot of carriers (including cell carriers, when they cell carriers were not owned by the ILEC and the ILEC would not provide them high speed pipes to the cell towers..). But these folks are normally harder to track down unless they are aggressively selling services... I often collect Network Maps from carriers and competitive service providers, just to be able to find out what are On-Net locations for them... make life much easier in determining where to pickup the service from rather than having them do the buildout and bring them to where you are Hope this helps. Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 7/20/2010 6:19 PM, RickG wrote: In my previous life as an ATT Cellular switch manager, we had hundreds of T1's T3's ordered that never came in - yes, I mean never. And we practically had a blank check! -RickG On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Kristian Hoffmannkh...@fire2wire.com wrote: After about a year of getting the same response from ATT after multiple order requests at different locations across our network, the guy in charge of building out fiber for the region called and said what in the world are you guys doing?!? He ended up giving us the location of a few fiber
Re: [WISPA] U.S. not getting broadband fast enough, FCC Says
I gave up and just do what I do with zero expectations of anyone whatsoever, be it governmental or private, helping in any way. Too much talkie talkie I like to say. Their agenda is never in our best interest. They love their grants and taxpayer funded studies. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of MDK Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 3:35 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] U.S. not getting broadband fast enough, FCC Says Let's see... the Administration continues to implement wildly absurd and destructive policies, continues a mad dash desperate attempt to bankrupt the country with spending so insane it boggles the mind, continues to take over industries with regulatory legislation that makes less sense than chewing off your own fingers, continues to threaten to regulate ISP's like telephone companies, acts at the speed of a hesitant glacier at doing anything like opening up spectrum that normal (read, not possessing mega millions or billions of dollars) businesses can use... And they're wondering why the prospects for deployment seem bleak. How does one grab these people by the collar, shake them awake, and introduce them to reality? ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 10:21 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] U.S. not getting broadband fast enough, FCC Says Yet, another push for broadband from the FCC: http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/web/07/20/fcc.broadband.access/index.html?eref= mrss_igoogle_cnn WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
