Very true. I'll add that my story is 4 years old, and the T3s mentioned have already or are being switched to Ethernet services. Didn't help that it took 9 months to finally get a hold of a Charter wholesale/ISP rep. :-| It also took us 6-7 months from "yes send me the contract" to turn-up with our AT&T Ethernet circuit, even though there was active AT&T fiber at our POP.
-Kristian On Tue, 2010-07-20 at 18:57 -0400, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: > I have been quietly watching this discussion.... > > I don't claim to be an expert, but being a wire line ISP, let me add / > clarify some thoughts / facts .... > > T1 / T3 or DS3 / OC3 are all TDM / Legacy services........ > > T1, can be extended (long distance) via field repeaters... (T1's are > based on HDSL technology and go about 12000ft from the CO or Repeater.) > T3/DS3 are peeled off OC3 or Sonet (optical) Muxes....These are larger > expensive pieces of equipment that require a lot of power and are fiber fed. > > While all of the legacy TDM services are regulated (i.e the price is > disclosed on a tariff) but the ILEC is allowed to recover build out > costs... these costs are high, > in addition, the ILEC's are also aware that these High Cap transports > are used by other Competitors and as such exercise full discretion on > discouraging purchase of these circuits, by using extra inflated build > out costs, and if you agree to pay that, then the 2nd option they use is > extra extra long build out time schedule... 9 to 12 months easy. > > For Enterprise customers, they will do the build at no cost or little > cost, but the Enterprise customer also has to provide them with space > and power, typically 2-3 racks of space and 20-40 amps of power. > > Today, the ILEC's are not interested in doing such buildout, unless > someone is buying SONET transport from them or a bundle of multiple > DS3's / OC'3 combination, and there are a few more if's... > > The most cost effective form of transport that an ISP / WISP can > purchase from a Carrier (ILEC or Cable Co or another type of provider) > would be Ethernet ...... > 100Meg or Gig E.... While these are un-regulated services, which means > an ILEC's can exercise their discretion on providing this type of > service to you and I or another Carrier.... however in many places > (typically office buildings in a metro downtown area) would have > equipment / fiber already installed that they can deliver the service at > that location. > > These days the local Cable Company who has been doing fiber build outs > for their cable plants is also pretty eager to sell IP Transit or > Ethernet Transport over the Fiber system.. Most of them are working on a > pretty fair means of pricing the fiber service and will not discriminate > against service providers... (most of them...) > > Another often overlooked fiber carrier is the local Power Company..... > Most power companies have a "Fiber / Network Division" they have been > the largest providers of dark fiber for a lot of carriers (including > cell carriers, when they cell carriers were not owned by the ILEC and > the ILEC would not provide them high speed pipes to the cell towers..). > But these folks are normally harder to track down unless they are > aggressively selling services... > > I often collect Network Maps from carriers and competitive service > providers, just to be able to find out what are "On-Net" locations for > them... make life much easier in determining where to pickup the service > from rather than having them do the buildout and bring them to where you > are.... > > Hope this helps. > > Regards > > > > Faisal Imtiaz > Snappy Internet& Telecom > 7266 SW 48 Street > Miami, Fl 33155 > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 > Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net > > > On 7/20/2010 6:19 PM, RickG wrote: > > In my previous life as an AT&T Cellular switch manager, we had > > hundreds of T1's& T3's ordered that never came in - yes, I mean > > never. And we practically had a blank check! > > -RickG > > > > On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Kristian Hoffmann<kh...@fire2wire.com> > > wrote: > > > >> After about a year of getting the same response from AT&T after multiple > >> order requests at different locations across our network, the guy in > >> charge of building out fiber for the region called and said "what in the > >> world are you guys doing?!?" He ended up giving us the location of a > >> few fiber terminals in the area. We found the ones closest to our > >> network, made an agreement with a tenant nearby, and did a wireless PtP > >> to connect it to our network. > >> > >> Moral of the story, we were shooting in the dark until we had an "in" in > >> the right department at AT&T. > >> > >> On a related note, does anyone have an experience with Charter's fiber > >> services? > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Kristian Hoffmann > >> System Administrator > >> kh...@fire2wire.com > >> http://www.fire2wire.com > >> > >> Office - 209-543-1800 | Fax - 209-545-1469 | Toll Free - 800-905-FIRE > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 2010-07-19 at 22:33 -0500, Roger Howard wrote: > >> > >>> Quick alert to those who are not aware... back when I was running my > >>> business on T1 lines, I just assumed that when I was ready, I could > >>> order a T3 and upgrade my bandwidth. Not so. > >>> > >>> Just because you can get a T1 doesn't mean you can get a T3 without > >>> huge buildout costs. I was quoted $400,000 dollars to upgrade to a T3. > >>> I managed to get around it because otherwise AT&T would have had to > >>> install a high count copper line down my road to be able to keep > >>> offering POTS service here, so I got lucky, and had a free install. > >>> But you may not be that fortunate. > >>> > >>> I just thought if I posted this, it might give some people a heads up > >>> to start planning for more bandwidth when you're coming close to > >>> needing t3 type capacity. > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Roger > >>> > >>> > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> WISPA Wants You! 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