Re: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps
Lonnie, I have published a Certification FAQ http://ask-wi.com/certification.html that I believe addresses all of these questions. WISPA also has a Certification email list to further address these issues. That list is currently open only to WISPA members. Regarding using a copy of someone else's certified system; an EXACT copy can be legal however this is easier said than done because the company that pays for the certification may choose to keep some information confidential to preclude someone else from making an exact copy. Most well-run businesses would probably want to prevent other businesses from sponging off of them and competing unfairly and would not cooperate with competitor businesses. Of course, a group of WISPs could collaborate to share the certification costs, then agree to build EXACT (hardware and software) copies. Responsible manufacturers or organizations could even choose to publish EXACT descriptions of their already-certified products. Anyone building these exact copies must take responsibility for building an EXACT copy. The FCC can come inspect at any time. They can also request that anyone building a certified system (the original Grantee or someone copying a certified system) provide a sample system for the FCC to test to verify compliance with the originally certified system specs. I can't speak for WISPA but their Certification email list appears to be one possible vehicle that can be used to coordinate equipment needs and share certification costs. Regarding software, AFAIK every software update does not need to be recertified. The original system certification must be done using software that only allows the system to operate in FCC-legal frequency bands and at FCC-legal power levels. For example, a 5.8 GHz system could not ship with software that also allowed operation on 4.9 GHz or even on 5.4 GHz because the certification requirements for those two bands are different than 5.8 GHz. A two-band system would be legal (for example 5.4 and 5.8 GHz) if it was tested and verified to operate within FCC-legal specs on BOTH bands however today this would require a rather long test cycle because only the FCC lab is currently doing 5.4 GHz testing. AFAIK, if a certified system had a software fix come out to add security or to address software reliability issues, that would be legal as long as the RF characteristics weren't changed to allow operation on non-certified bands or on additional frequencies or at higher-than-originally certified power levels. If anyone has additional questions or corrections, please feel free to post them. Thanks, jack P.S. - Earlier tonight I emailed ADI Engineering asking for clarification regarding any fully-certified systems that they offer. Their website says that their MOTHERBOARDS have FCC Part 15 Class B certification but there is no mention of FCC Part 15 Subpart C certification which includes testing the motherboard with the wireless card(s) and the antenna(s). We need to use systems that have been tested and verified to meet both Class B and Subpart C requirements. Lonnie Nunweiler wrote: Are you sure about this? Is this what ADI told you, personally? The Original Manufacturer assembles a system and has it certified with that set of components and construction techniques. As long as the SAME parts and SAME techniques are used then this system should be certified. Of course the manufacturer must take responsibility and certify that proper components and techniques were used. As to software, there is a lot of leeway there. Most systems use Linux and all Atheros code is derived from the source code that people license from Atheros. The free madwifi drivers are still traceable and derived from Atheros source code. If you had to certify the exact software with the system, then it would be a nightmare and I believe that not a single manufacturer would currently be legal after they release a new image unless they would get each and every software release certified, as they must do for each hardware change. That would be excessive and would eventually make everybody illegal since software fixes are brought out rapidly to address security and reliability issues. Lonnie On 4/22/07, Tim Kerns [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matt, Is this latest news? The last I heard was adi had certified their board in their enclosure with a couple different antennas, but never heard what OS they were running. Also, to be certified you would have to purchase the units pre-assembled from ADI. Remember the certification goes to the manufacturer. - Original Message - From: Matt Larsen - Lists [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps Wrong. ADI Engineering has a certified StarOS/War Board combo, with a choice of cards. I am currently evaluating them for my future backhauls. Matt Larsen
Re: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps
should be certified. Of course the manufacturer must take responsibility and certify that proper components and techniques were used. As to software, there is a lot of leeway there. Most systems use Linux and all Atheros code is derived from the source code that people license from Atheros. The free madwifi drivers are still traceable and derived from Atheros source code. If you had to certify the exact software with the system, then it would be a nightmare and I believe that not a single manufacturer would currently be legal after they release a new image unless they would get each and every software release certified, as they must do for each hardware change. That would be excessive and would eventually make everybody illegal since software fixes are brought out rapidly to address security and reliability issues. Lonnie On 4/22/07, Tim Kerns [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matt, Is this latest news? The last I heard was adi had certified their board in their enclosure with a couple different antennas, but never heard what OS they were running. Also, to be certified you would have to purchase the units pre-assembled from ADI. Remember the certification goes to the manufacturer. - Original Message - From: Matt Larsen - Lists [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps Wrong. ADI Engineering has a certified StarOS/War Board combo, with a choice of cards. I am currently evaluating them for my future backhauls. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com Smith, Rick wrote: Nope, not FCC certified. What Mikrotik / Star-OS systems are ? None. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn DiPietro Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 11:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps Rick, Can you tell me if this system you suggested is FCC Certified? Regards, Dawn DiPietro Smith, Rick wrote: use an XR5 (ubiquity) card as radios, with mikrotik, a 24 dbi panel on the aesthetic end from pac wireless. 3' dish on the other end. You'll have more than enough margin. Don't ever ever ever use an amp on anything. you only amplify your problems. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 7:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps I'm needing to do a 14-mile link at 5.8GHz. I will have to use a 15-or-so flat panel antenna due to building owner's asthetics requirements. On this 8-story building, I'll mount to the side of the masonry, then I'll have about 25 feet of LMR-400 from the antenna to a weatherproof enclosure with 110v power. On the other side I'll be 100' up on a tower on a hilltop, and I can use a higher-gain antenna. I believe I'll have to use an amplifier to achieve this. Soo... A) Am I incorrect about this? B) If I'm correct, what 5GHz amps have you found to be effective? C) Opinions on using regular or bi-directional amps? Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting FCC Part 15 Certification Assistance for Wireless Service Providers Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps
That is not much of a issue, or should not be. Atheros cards have a wide RF range (2.3ghz to 2.5ghz for most of the 2.4ghz cards) that they can do. The drivers they are certified with only allow the US spectrum. They likely use a custom driver for the FCC, as some Atheros gear is spec'ed in decimal db (xx.yy db) but still is limited to a whole db setting. On 4/23/07, Rick Harnish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lonnie, Can your software code be adjusted to limit the country codes rather easily? Or, is this feature not delaying the certification process thus far? It would seem to me that the FCC would not certify the system if it can be adjusted by some operators to operate outside of US specifications while being in the US. It would seem to me that key generation would be where you could turn this feature on and off. Thanks, Rick Harnish President OnlyInternet Broadband Wireless, Inc. 260-827-2482 Founding Member of WISPA -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps What would be nice Lonnie, is if the original war board manufacturer went this rroute as well. Those 2 port boards fit nicely. It would also help if you took part and helped to open up the cert process with us for the products you are specifying. George Lonnie Nunweiler wrote: Jack, I am aware of your website, and also that you are available, on a paid basis, to help people with this process. It is a new business for you and I wish you well on it. As for the certs, yes, if a company chooses to keep some part of the process secret or proprietary, then the system cannot be built in an identical manner. That is simply not the case with the ADI Metro system, since they wish to help people. They will soon have the case for sale and they have assured me that the rest of the components will also be readily available. As I said, for software, the Atheros driver in conjunction with the cards controls the RF portion, thus almost any Linux software would be the same and would not need to be recertified. Atheros publish the country codes and part of the data structure is the allowable channels and power for each channel. If those are not modified, then the system is per Atheros already certified specifications. As for the 4.9 GHz bands, it was my understanding that the cards are the big thing and have to be certified. Again, the software merely puts the card into the band and it is up to the card for power and such. Not many common cards can exceed FCC guidelines, so it becomes a matter of an ability to reduce power below FCC allowable and not really an ability to set power above, since most cards cannot do that anyway. It is my stated belief that nobody needs more power anyway, unless of course they do not know what they are doing, and then they need all the power they can get. Lonnie Lonnie On 4/22/07, Jack Unger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lonnie, I have published a Certification FAQ http://ask-wi.com/certification.html that I believe addresses all of these questions. WISPA also has a Certification email list to further address these issues. That list is currently open only to WISPA members. Regarding using a copy of someone else's certified system; an EXACT copy can be legal however this is easier said than done because the company that pays for the certification may choose to keep some information confidential to preclude someone else from making an exact copy. Most well-run businesses would probably want to prevent other businesses from sponging off of them and competing unfairly and would not cooperate with competitor businesses. Of course, a group of WISPs could collaborate to share the certification costs, then agree to build EXACT (hardware and software) copies. Responsible manufacturers or organizations could even choose to publish EXACT descriptions of their already-certified products. Anyone building these exact copies must take responsibility for building an EXACT copy. The FCC can come inspect at any time. They can also request that anyone building a certified system (the original Grantee or someone copying a certified system) provide a sample system for the FCC to test to verify compliance with the originally certified system specs. I can't speak for WISPA but their Certification email list appears to be one possible vehicle that can be used to coordinate equipment needs and share certification costs. Regarding software, AFAIK every software update does not need to be recertified. The original system certification must be done using software that only allows the system to operate in FCC-legal frequency bands and at FCC-legal power levels. For example, a 5.8 GHz system could not ship with software that also allowed operation on 4.9 GHz or even on 5.4 GHz because the certification requirements for those two
Re: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps
Does anyone have some real-world experience comparing the grid with the solid 5.8 antennas. Is the listed gain accurate in describing performance? or are there additional advantages of the solid dish at equivalent gain ratings? I have only installed grid at this point, due to local high wind considerations and the cost factor. Thanks. Steve -- Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I don't know what equiopment you use... but... here's a scenario... 20 dbm radios...15 db panel on one side and a 32 db solid dish on the other. At 15 miles, you should have a -68 signal. (Araya's link calculator says this)You're WELL within the P2P eirp rules for 5.8, and at -68 you should be able to use a star-os or mikrotik or other similar based link at around 36Meg data rate. My stuff will stay pretty much at 54meg data rate at a -68, and even serious weather fade should keep you at 24Meg or above. Workable? pacwireless sells the solid 32db dish for 270 online. I sometimes use Compex 23 dbm a/b/g radios, for the power at 5 ghz, and they cost what I used to pay for CM-9's. - Original Message - From: Mark Nash [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 4:28 PM Subject: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps I'm needing to do a 14-mile link at 5.8GHz. I will have to use a 15-or-so flat panel antenna due to building owner's asthetics requirements. On this 8-story building, I'll mount to the side of the masonry, then I'll have about 25 feet of LMR-400 from the antenna to a weatherproof enclosure with 110v power. On the other side I'll be 100' up on a tower on a hilltop, and I can use a higher-gain antenna. I believe I'll have to use an amplifier to achieve this. Soo... A) Am I incorrect about this? B) If I'm correct, what 5GHz amps have you found to be effective? C) Opinions on using regular or bi-directional amps? Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps
Rick, Can you tell me if this system you suggested is FCC Certified? Regards, Dawn DiPietro Smith, Rick wrote: use an XR5 (ubiquity) card as radios, with mikrotik, a 24 dbi panel on the aesthetic end from pac wireless. 3' dish on the other end. You'll have more than enough margin. Don't ever ever ever use an amp on anything. you only amplify your problems. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 7:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps I'm needing to do a 14-mile link at 5.8GHz. I will have to use a 15-or-so flat panel antenna due to building owner's asthetics requirements. On this 8-story building, I'll mount to the side of the masonry, then I'll have about 25 feet of LMR-400 from the antenna to a weatherproof enclosure with 110v power. On the other side I'll be 100' up on a tower on a hilltop, and I can use a higher-gain antenna. I believe I'll have to use an amplifier to achieve this. Soo... A) Am I incorrect about this? B) If I'm correct, what 5GHz amps have you found to be effective? C) Opinions on using regular or bi-directional amps? Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps
My expeirence is that the grids are on par, gain-wise, with the solid dishes. The solid dishes have MANY RF advantages, but a 26 db grid will do 26 db and 29 dish will do 29. the solid dishes have advantages in stability, beam accuracy, front/back ratio, and so on. But the gain is the gain, it seems. - Original Message - From: Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 8:27 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps Does anyone have some real-world experience comparing the grid with the solid 5.8 antennas. Is the listed gain accurate in describing performance? or are there additional advantages of the solid dish at equivalent gain ratings? I have only installed grid at this point, due to local high wind considerations and the cost factor. Thanks. Steve -- Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I don't know what equiopment you use... but... here's a scenario... 20 dbm radios...15 db panel on one side and a 32 db solid dish on the other. At 15 miles, you should have a -68 signal. (Araya's link calculator says this)You're WELL within the P2P eirp rules for 5.8, and at -68 you should be able to use a star-os or mikrotik or other similar based link at around 36Meg data rate. My stuff will stay pretty much at 54meg data rate at a -68, and even serious weather fade should keep you at 24Meg or above. Workable? pacwireless sells the solid 32db dish for 270 online. I sometimes use Compex 23 dbm a/b/g radios, for the power at 5 ghz, and they cost what I used to pay for CM-9's. - Original Message - From: Mark Nash [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 4:28 PM Subject: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps I'm needing to do a 14-mile link at 5.8GHz. I will have to use a 15-or-so flat panel antenna due to building owner's asthetics requirements. On this 8-story building, I'll mount to the side of the masonry, then I'll have about 25 feet of LMR-400 from the antenna to a weatherproof enclosure with 110v power. On the other side I'll be 100' up on a tower on a hilltop, and I can use a higher-gain antenna. I believe I'll have to use an amplifier to achieve this. Soo... A) Am I incorrect about this? B) If I'm correct, what 5GHz amps have you found to be effective? C) Opinions on using regular or bi-directional amps? Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps
The solid dishes are much better than the grids. The 26db grids are pretty decent, but the 29db grids (both PacWireless and Equinox) are poor compared to the solid dish 29db antennas. I saw an 8db improvement in signal switching from a 29db grid to a 29db solid dish antenna at a couple of my sites. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com Mark Koskenmaki wrote: My expeirence is that the grids are on par, gain-wise, with the solid dishes. The solid dishes have MANY RF advantages, but a 26 db grid will do 26 db and 29 dish will do 29. the solid dishes have advantages in stability, beam accuracy, front/back ratio, and so on. But the gain is the gain, it seems. - Original Message - From: Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 8:27 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps Does anyone have some real-world experience comparing the grid with the solid 5.8 antennas. Is the listed gain accurate in describing performance? or are there additional advantages of the solid dish at equivalent gain ratings? I have only installed grid at this point, due to local high wind considerations and the cost factor. Thanks. Steve -- Mark Koskenmaki wrote: I don't know what equiopment you use... but... here's a scenario... 20 dbm radios...15 db panel on one side and a 32 db solid dish on the other. At 15 miles, you should have a -68 signal. (Araya's link calculator says this)You're WELL within the P2P eirp rules for 5.8, and at -68 you should be able to use a star-os or mikrotik or other similar based link at around 36Meg data rate. My stuff will stay pretty much at 54meg data rate at a -68, and even serious weather fade should keep you at 24Meg or above. Workable? pacwireless sells the solid 32db dish for 270 online. I sometimes use Compex 23 dbm a/b/g radios, for the power at 5 ghz, and they cost what I used to pay for CM-9's. - Original Message - From: Mark Nash [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 4:28 PM Subject: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps I'm needing to do a 14-mile link at 5.8GHz. I will have to use a 15-or-so flat panel antenna due to building owner's asthetics requirements. On this 8-story building, I'll mount to the side of the masonry, then I'll have about 25 feet of LMR-400 from the antenna to a weatherproof enclosure with 110v power. On the other side I'll be 100' up on a tower on a hilltop, and I can use a higher-gain antenna. I believe I'll have to use an amplifier to achieve this. Soo... A) Am I incorrect about this? B) If I'm correct, what 5GHz amps have you found to be effective? C) Opinions on using regular or bi-directional amps? Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps
Nope, not FCC certified. What Mikrotik / Star-OS systems are ? None. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn DiPietro Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 11:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps Rick, Can you tell me if this system you suggested is FCC Certified? Regards, Dawn DiPietro Smith, Rick wrote: use an XR5 (ubiquity) card as radios, with mikrotik, a 24 dbi panel on the aesthetic end from pac wireless. 3' dish on the other end. You'll have more than enough margin. Don't ever ever ever use an amp on anything. you only amplify your problems. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 7:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps I'm needing to do a 14-mile link at 5.8GHz. I will have to use a 15-or-so flat panel antenna due to building owner's asthetics requirements. On this 8-story building, I'll mount to the side of the masonry, then I'll have about 25 feet of LMR-400 from the antenna to a weatherproof enclosure with 110v power. On the other side I'll be 100' up on a tower on a hilltop, and I can use a higher-gain antenna. I believe I'll have to use an amplifier to achieve this. Soo... A) Am I incorrect about this? B) If I'm correct, what 5GHz amps have you found to be effective? C) Opinions on using regular or bi-directional amps? Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps
Are you sure about this? Is this what ADI told you, personally? The Original Manufacturer assembles a system and has it certified with that set of components and construction techniques. As long as the SAME parts and SAME techniques are used then this system should be certified. Of course the manufacturer must take responsibility and certify that proper components and techniques were used. As to software, there is a lot of leeway there. Most systems use Linux and all Atheros code is derived from the source code that people license from Atheros. The free madwifi drivers are still traceable and derived from Atheros source code. If you had to certify the exact software with the system, then it would be a nightmare and I believe that not a single manufacturer would currently be legal after they release a new image unless they would get each and every software release certified, as they must do for each hardware change. That would be excessive and would eventually make everybody illegal since software fixes are brought out rapidly to address security and reliability issues. Lonnie On 4/22/07, Tim Kerns [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matt, Is this latest news? The last I heard was adi had certified their board in their enclosure with a couple different antennas, but never heard what OS they were running. Also, to be certified you would have to purchase the units pre-assembled from ADI. Remember the certification goes to the manufacturer. - Original Message - From: Matt Larsen - Lists [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps Wrong. ADI Engineering has a certified StarOS/War Board combo, with a choice of cards. I am currently evaluating them for my future backhauls. Matt Larsen vistabeam.com Smith, Rick wrote: Nope, not FCC certified. What Mikrotik / Star-OS systems are ? None. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dawn DiPietro Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 11:15 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps Rick, Can you tell me if this system you suggested is FCC Certified? Regards, Dawn DiPietro Smith, Rick wrote: use an XR5 (ubiquity) card as radios, with mikrotik, a 24 dbi panel on the aesthetic end from pac wireless. 3' dish on the other end. You'll have more than enough margin. Don't ever ever ever use an amp on anything. you only amplify your problems. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 7:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps I'm needing to do a 14-mile link at 5.8GHz. I will have to use a 15-or-so flat panel antenna due to building owner's asthetics requirements. On this 8-story building, I'll mount to the side of the masonry, then I'll have about 25 feet of LMR-400 from the antenna to a weatherproof enclosure with 110v power. On the other side I'll be 100' up on a tower on a hilltop, and I can use a higher-gain antenna. I believe I'll have to use an amplifier to achieve this. Soo... A) Am I incorrect about this? B) If I'm correct, what 5GHz amps have you found to be effective? C) Opinions on using regular or bi-directional amps? Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Lonnie Nunweiler Valemount Networks Corporation http://www.star-os.com/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] 5GHz Amps
I'm needing to do a 14-mile link at 5.8GHz. I will have to use a 15-or-so flat panel antenna due to building owner's asthetics requirements. On this 8-story building, I'll mount to the side of the masonry, then I'll have about 25 feet of LMR-400 from the antenna to a weatherproof enclosure with 110v power. On the other side I'll be 100' up on a tower on a hilltop, and I can use a higher-gain antenna. I believe I'll have to use an amplifier to achieve this. Soo... A) Am I incorrect about this? B) If I'm correct, what 5GHz amps have you found to be effective? C) Opinions on using regular or bi-directional amps? Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps
use an XR5 (ubiquity) card as radios, with mikrotik, a 24 dbi panel on the aesthetic end from pac wireless. 3' dish on the other end. You'll have more than enough margin. Don't ever ever ever use an amp on anything. you only amplify your problems. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 7:28 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps I'm needing to do a 14-mile link at 5.8GHz. I will have to use a 15-or-so flat panel antenna due to building owner's asthetics requirements. On this 8-story building, I'll mount to the side of the masonry, then I'll have about 25 feet of LMR-400 from the antenna to a weatherproof enclosure with 110v power. On the other side I'll be 100' up on a tower on a hilltop, and I can use a higher-gain antenna. I believe I'll have to use an amplifier to achieve this. Soo... A) Am I incorrect about this? B) If I'm correct, what 5GHz amps have you found to be effective? C) Opinions on using regular or bi-directional amps? Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps
I don't know what equiopment you use... but... here's a scenario... 20 dbm radios...15 db panel on one side and a 32 db solid dish on the other. At 15 miles, you should have a -68 signal. (Araya's link calculator says this)You're WELL within the P2P eirp rules for 5.8, and at -68 you should be able to use a star-os or mikrotik or other similar based link at around 36Meg data rate. My stuff will stay pretty much at 54meg data rate at a -68, and even serious weather fade should keep you at 24Meg or above. Workable? pacwireless sells the solid 32db dish for 270 online. I sometimes use Compex 23 dbm a/b/g radios, for the power at 5 ghz, and they cost what I used to pay for CM-9's. - Original Message - From: Mark Nash [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 4:28 PM Subject: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps I'm needing to do a 14-mile link at 5.8GHz. I will have to use a 15-or-so flat panel antenna due to building owner's asthetics requirements. On this 8-story building, I'll mount to the side of the masonry, then I'll have about 25 feet of LMR-400 from the antenna to a weatherproof enclosure with 110v power. On the other side I'll be 100' up on a tower on a hilltop, and I can use a higher-gain antenna. I believe I'll have to use an amplifier to achieve this. Soo... A) Am I incorrect about this? B) If I'm correct, what 5GHz amps have you found to be effective? C) Opinions on using regular or bi-directional amps? Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps
Yeppers, that's about what I was thinking. It really depends on the rec. signal that you need though. Also, how about putting the antenna inside something that doesn't look like an antenna? marlon - Original Message - From: Mark Koskenmaki [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps I don't know what equiopment you use... but... here's a scenario... 20 dbm radios...15 db panel on one side and a 32 db solid dish on the other. At 15 miles, you should have a -68 signal. (Araya's link calculator says this)You're WELL within the P2P eirp rules for 5.8, and at -68 you should be able to use a star-os or mikrotik or other similar based link at around 36Meg data rate. My stuff will stay pretty much at 54meg data rate at a -68, and even serious weather fade should keep you at 24Meg or above. Workable? pacwireless sells the solid 32db dish for 270 online. I sometimes use Compex 23 dbm a/b/g radios, for the power at 5 ghz, and they cost what I used to pay for CM-9's. - Original Message - From: Mark Nash [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 4:28 PM Subject: [WISPA] 5GHz Amps I'm needing to do a 14-mile link at 5.8GHz. I will have to use a 15-or-so flat panel antenna due to building owner's asthetics requirements. On this 8-story building, I'll mount to the side of the masonry, then I'll have about 25 feet of LMR-400 from the antenna to a weatherproof enclosure with 110v power. On the other side I'll be 100' up on a tower on a hilltop, and I can use a higher-gain antenna. I believe I'll have to use an amplifier to achieve this. Soo... A) Am I incorrect about this? B) If I'm correct, what 5GHz amps have you found to be effective? C) Opinions on using regular or bi-directional amps? Mark Nash Network Engineer UnwiredOnline.Net 350 Holly Street Junction City, OR 97448 http://www.uwol.net 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
