Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
So what's the latest with this? We essentially have an IPTV headend running in the shop. It's nice being able to sit in my office and work on the computer, while watching TV streamed over the LAN. But that doesn't make much money. At the UBNT AirMax conference they said they're doing IPTV over the new M stuff. But... I still run into that little issue of 6Mbps multicast rates. On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 9:56 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Jayson Baker wrote: I will need to test that. The setting lets you use any valid modulation for the RF mode your in. I will also test with my B5M's. What exactly are you referring to? On the older 802.11a/b/g devices I see Multicast Rate. But on the Rocket/Bullet/Nano N-series (M series) I don't see Multicast Rate, just Allow all Yup the M's I have do not allow you to set a fixed rate. I should have been clearer in that I meant that the AirMax stuff was different then the AirOS stuff. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:20 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I will need to test that. The setting lets you use any valid modulation for the RF mode your in. I will also test with my B5M's. Jayson Baker wrote: IIRc, multicast is limited at the 6Mbps modulation on WiFi Tell me I'm wrong, please. But I've read it a couple times--compeltely forgot until we started doing this. Before, when we were watching IPTV off our fiber headend, we were doing it over EoIP. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 9:19 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: You can change the multicast rate on the non airmax units. Mine are enroute so have not tried with the airmax gear. I have not heard back about the units. At 130 ea, a Roku with the same features as the low end unit, will be more cost effective. I am still researching about the licensing requirements of securing the data stream for non OTA channels. Jayson Baker wrote: I seem to remember the low-end ones were around $130/ea. Not sure about the others. Price will vary based on where you buy and in what quantity I assume. Remembered that standard 802.11 will only multicast at around 1Mbps. So that's why we were having the problem with the multicast over AirMax equipment. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:59 AM, richard sterne wireless.r...@gmail.comwrote: Did you get any pricing for the Amino STB's? I would like to know more about your setup. Richard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
To this day I've heard of countless people that do it to compete (the triple bundle) but none that make any money. 6mbps multicast...per active channel. Usually it happens in such a way that if someone starts watching a channels 20-25 the channel will multicast through the network up until no one is watching it for ~5 minutes. Super bandwidth hog. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: So what's the latest with this? We essentially have an IPTV headend running in the shop. It's nice being able to sit in my office and work on the computer, while watching TV streamed over the LAN. But that doesn't make much money. At the UBNT AirMax conference they said they're doing IPTV over the new M stuff. But... I still run into that little issue of 6Mbps multicast rates. On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 9:56 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Jayson Baker wrote: I will need to test that. The setting lets you use any valid modulation for the RF mode your in. I will also test with my B5M's. What exactly are you referring to? On the older 802.11a/b/g devices I see Multicast Rate. But on the Rocket/Bullet/Nano N-series (M series) I don't see Multicast Rate, just Allow all Yup the M's I have do not allow you to set a fixed rate. I should have been clearer in that I meant that the AirMax stuff was different then the AirOS stuff. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:20 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I will need to test that. The setting lets you use any valid modulation for the RF mode your in. I will also test with my B5M's. Jayson Baker wrote: IIRc, multicast is limited at the 6Mbps modulation on WiFi Tell me I'm wrong, please. But I've read it a couple times--compeltely forgot until we started doing this. Before, when we were watching IPTV off our fiber headend, we were doing it over EoIP. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 9:19 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: You can change the multicast rate on the non airmax units. Mine are enroute so have not tried with the airmax gear. I have not heard back about the units. At 130 ea, a Roku with the same features as the low end unit, will be more cost effective. I am still researching about the licensing requirements of securing the data stream for non OTA channels. Jayson Baker wrote: I seem to remember the low-end ones were around $130/ea. Not sure about the others. Price will vary based on where you buy and in what quantity I assume. Remembered that standard 802.11 will only multicast at around 1Mbps. So that's why we were having the problem with the multicast over AirMax equipment. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:59 AM, richard sterne wireless.r...@gmail.comwrote: Did you get any pricing for the Amino STB's? I would like to know more about your setup. Richard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Probably would not be profitable for us, either, in all actuality. We'd like to just offer some basic channels. Maybe 30 or 40. For those people who really just want basic TV Networks, Disney, ESPN, etc. But I think the programmers would force you to carry all their other stupid channels. *shrug* On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:25 AM, Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.comwrote: To this day I've heard of countless people that do it to compete (the triple bundle) but none that make any money. 6mbps multicast...per active channel. Usually it happens in such a way that if someone starts watching a channels 20-25 the channel will multicast through the network up until no one is watching it for ~5 minutes. Super bandwidth hog. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: So what's the latest with this? We essentially have an IPTV headend running in the shop. It's nice being able to sit in my office and work on the computer, while watching TV streamed over the LAN. But that doesn't make much money. At the UBNT AirMax conference they said they're doing IPTV over the new M stuff. But... I still run into that little issue of 6Mbps multicast rates. On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 9:56 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Jayson Baker wrote: I will need to test that. The setting lets you use any valid modulation for the RF mode your in. I will also test with my B5M's. What exactly are you referring to? On the older 802.11a/b/g devices I see Multicast Rate. But on the Rocket/Bullet/Nano N-series (M series) I don't see Multicast Rate, just Allow all Yup the M's I have do not allow you to set a fixed rate. I should have been clearer in that I meant that the AirMax stuff was different then the AirOS stuff. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:20 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I will need to test that. The setting lets you use any valid modulation for the RF mode your in. I will also test with my B5M's. Jayson Baker wrote: IIRc, multicast is limited at the 6Mbps modulation on WiFi Tell me I'm wrong, please. But I've read it a couple times--compeltely forgot until we started doing this. Before, when we were watching IPTV off our fiber headend, we were doing it over EoIP. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 9:19 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: You can change the multicast rate on the non airmax units. Mine are enroute so have not tried with the airmax gear. I have not heard back about the units. At 130 ea, a Roku with the same features as the low end unit, will be more cost effective. I am still researching about the licensing requirements of securing the data stream for non OTA channels. Jayson Baker wrote: I seem to remember the low-end ones were around $130/ea. Not sure about the others. Price will vary based on where you buy and in what quantity I assume. Remembered that standard 802.11 will only multicast at around 1Mbps. So that's why we were having the problem with the multicast over AirMax equipment. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:59 AM, richard sterne wireless.r...@gmail.comwrote: Did you get any pricing for the Amino STB's? I would like to know more about your setup. Richard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Out of idle curiosity, have any of you IPTV folks priced CableCARDs? There's a certain appeal in having customers provide their own equipment. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
CableCARD's don't accept Ethernet...? On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 8:11 AM, David E. Smith d...@mvn.net wrote: Out of idle curiosity, have any of you IPTV folks priced CableCARDs? There's a certain appeal in having customers provide their own equipment. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 09:49, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: CableCARD's don't accept Ethernet...? I was assuming using IP as a convenient way to deliver TV, as in a fiber deployment (where the end-user only sees coax). David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Jayson Baker wrote: I will need to test that. The setting lets you use any valid modulation for the RF mode your in. I will also test with my B5M's. What exactly are you referring to? On the older 802.11a/b/g devices I see Multicast Rate. But on the Rocket/Bullet/Nano N-series (M series) I don't see Multicast Rate, just Allow all Yup the M's I have do not allow you to set a fixed rate. I should have been clearer in that I meant that the AirMax stuff was different then the AirOS stuff. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:20 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I will need to test that. The setting lets you use any valid modulation for the RF mode your in. I will also test with my B5M's. Jayson Baker wrote: IIRc, multicast is limited at the 6Mbps modulation on WiFi Tell me I'm wrong, please. But I've read it a couple times--compeltely forgot until we started doing this. Before, when we were watching IPTV off our fiber headend, we were doing it over EoIP. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 9:19 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: You can change the multicast rate on the non airmax units. Mine are enroute so have not tried with the airmax gear. I have not heard back about the units. At 130 ea, a Roku with the same features as the low end unit, will be more cost effective. I am still researching about the licensing requirements of securing the data stream for non OTA channels. Jayson Baker wrote: I seem to remember the low-end ones were around $130/ea. Not sure about the others. Price will vary based on where you buy and in what quantity I assume. Remembered that standard 802.11 will only multicast at around 1Mbps. So that's why we were having the problem with the multicast over AirMax equipment. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:59 AM, richard sterne wireless.r...@gmail.comwrote: Did you get any pricing for the Amino STB's? I would like to know more about your setup. Richard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Tonight we spent a few more hours on this project. We're now streaming live satellite TV programming via multicast over our network. Unencrypted, and only MPEG 2 for now. The stream is about 6Mbps. It's going over a wireless backhaul, and into a UBNT AirMax system. It's being received over the AirMax system, but not being decoded properly. Not sure if it's the AirMax, or this laptop that's the issue. Leaning towards the laptop. When on the same network as the streambox the feed looks great, time-shift works perfect. We're using a PIII 933MHz machine with 1GB of RAM. It was laying around I will investigate more soon as to why it's not working via the AirMax. I'll also try to get the MPEG 4 codec situated on the encoder. I did find out from Amino that their STB's should work without 3rd party middleware. Basically, they have embedded browsers--point to your HTML server, which has pages to streams. You could fashion up your own guide and program info, etc. This would work especially well if you're not broadcasting networks with requirements, but just OTA. On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote: So we're looking at $25k for the hardware to do an MPEG-4 H.264 IPTV system for up to 100 channels? Remaining items needed (or desired): 1) Middleware (Minerva) 2) Licensing (only your past seems to indicate that this can be done) 3) VoD 4) Content stream from Avail or Echostar Missing anything? Costs for the others? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 12:20 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? Interestingly enough, I've had a project lying on my desk for a couple weeks now which requires streaming live content to a large group of people in a neighborhood (think of it as a neighborhood association wanting to broadcast their meetings to their residents). I don't know why I didn't see the similarity between this post and that project. I just spent the last couple hours working on this, and now have a Linux server streaming the content out over the wireless network multicast without any issues. Taking a deeper look... We have ASI-input cards from Linear Systems. They take 4 ASI streams... maybe 32 each? I can't remember. A quick look on eBay found some Moto C-Band receivers that output 32 ASI streams for under $1000. An entire receiving, encoding, streaming headend for under 100 channels could be built for probably under $25,000. I don't know what you're after, but if there is some serious interest in putting effort into something like this, we might be on board. Jayson On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Blake, In general the IPTV principles being discussed would apply to any broadband wireless system either license-free, licensed, or licensed-lite. jack Blake Covarrubias wrote: I've read the responses from others who are running IPTV over wireless. My question is when you all are saying wireless, do you mean unlicensed 2.4ghz or 5.8ghz, or do you mean wireless technology in general? My company utilizes 2.5 and 3.65ghz, which are the same frequencies we'd be looking to use to deploy IPTV. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Can you describe your setup a little more. Like what you are using for software and stuff? I too have a project where this may be useful. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 1:29 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Tonight we spent a few more hours on this project. We're now streaming live satellite TV programming via multicast over our network. Unencrypted, and only MPEG 2 for now. The stream is about 6Mbps. It's going over a wireless backhaul, and into a UBNT AirMax system. It's being received over the AirMax system, but not being decoded properly. Not sure if it's the AirMax, or this laptop that's the issue. Leaning towards the laptop. When on the same network as the streambox the feed looks great, time-shift works perfect. We're using a PIII 933MHz machine with 1GB of RAM. It was laying around I will investigate more soon as to why it's not working via the AirMax. I'll also try to get the MPEG 4 codec situated on the encoder. I did find out from Amino that their STB's should work without 3rd party middleware. Basically, they have embedded browsers--point to your HTML server, which has pages to streams. You could fashion up your own guide and program info, etc. This would work especially well if you're not broadcasting networks with requirements, but just OTA. On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote: So we're looking at $25k for the hardware to do an MPEG-4 H.264 IPTV system for up to 100 channels? Remaining items needed (or desired): 1) Middleware (Minerva) 2) Licensing (only your past seems to indicate that this can be done) 3) VoD 4) Content stream from Avail or Echostar Missing anything? Costs for the others? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 12:20 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? Interestingly enough, I've had a project lying on my desk for a couple weeks now which requires streaming live content to a large group of people in a neighborhood (think of it as a neighborhood association wanting to broadcast their meetings to their residents). I don't know why I didn't see the similarity between this post and that project. I just spent the last couple hours working on this, and now have a Linux server streaming the content out over the wireless network multicast without any issues. Taking a deeper look... We have ASI-input cards from Linear Systems. They take 4 ASI streams... maybe 32 each? I can't remember. A quick look on eBay found some Moto C-Band receivers that output 32 ASI streams for under $1000. An entire receiving, encoding, streaming headend for under 100 channels could be built for probably under $25,000. I don't know what you're after, but if there is some serious interest in putting effort into something like this, we might be on board. Jayson On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Blake, In general the IPTV principles being discussed would apply to any broadband wireless system either license-free, licensed, or licensed-lite. jack Blake Covarrubias wrote: I've read the responses from others who are running IPTV over wireless. My question is when you all are saying wireless, do you mean unlicensed 2.4ghz or 5.8ghz, or do you mean wireless technology in general? My company utilizes 2.5 and 3.65ghz, which are the same frequencies we'd be looking to use to deploy IPTV. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Did you get any pricing for the Amino STB's? I would like to know more about your setup. Richard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
I seem to remember the low-end ones were around $130/ea. Not sure about the others. Price will vary based on where you buy and in what quantity I assume. Remembered that standard 802.11 will only multicast at around 1Mbps. So that's why we were having the problem with the multicast over AirMax equipment. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:59 AM, richard sterne wireless.r...@gmail.comwrote: Did you get any pricing for the Amino STB's? I would like to know more about your setup. Richard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
You can change the multicast rate on the non airmax units. Mine are enroute so have not tried with the airmax gear. I have not heard back about the units. At 130 ea, a Roku with the same features as the low end unit, will be more cost effective. I am still researching about the licensing requirements of securing the data stream for non OTA channels. Jayson Baker wrote: I seem to remember the low-end ones were around $130/ea. Not sure about the others. Price will vary based on where you buy and in what quantity I assume. Remembered that standard 802.11 will only multicast at around 1Mbps. So that's why we were having the problem with the multicast over AirMax equipment. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:59 AM, richard sterne wireless.r...@gmail.comwrote: Did you get any pricing for the Amino STB's? I would like to know more about your setup. Richard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
IIRc, multicast is limited at the 6Mbps modulation on WiFi Tell me I'm wrong, please. But I've read it a couple times--compeltely forgot until we started doing this. Before, when we were watching IPTV off our fiber headend, we were doing it over EoIP. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 9:19 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: You can change the multicast rate on the non airmax units. Mine are enroute so have not tried with the airmax gear. I have not heard back about the units. At 130 ea, a Roku with the same features as the low end unit, will be more cost effective. I am still researching about the licensing requirements of securing the data stream for non OTA channels. Jayson Baker wrote: I seem to remember the low-end ones were around $130/ea. Not sure about the others. Price will vary based on where you buy and in what quantity I assume. Remembered that standard 802.11 will only multicast at around 1Mbps. So that's why we were having the problem with the multicast over AirMax equipment. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:59 AM, richard sterne wireless.r...@gmail.comwrote: Did you get any pricing for the Amino STB's? I would like to know more about your setup. Richard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
I will need to test that. The setting lets you use any valid modulation for the RF mode your in. I will also test with my B5M's. Jayson Baker wrote: IIRc, multicast is limited at the 6Mbps modulation on WiFi Tell me I'm wrong, please. But I've read it a couple times--compeltely forgot until we started doing this. Before, when we were watching IPTV off our fiber headend, we were doing it over EoIP. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 9:19 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: You can change the multicast rate on the non airmax units. Mine are enroute so have not tried with the airmax gear. I have not heard back about the units. At 130 ea, a Roku with the same features as the low end unit, will be more cost effective. I am still researching about the licensing requirements of securing the data stream for non OTA channels. Jayson Baker wrote: I seem to remember the low-end ones were around $130/ea. Not sure about the others. Price will vary based on where you buy and in what quantity I assume. Remembered that standard 802.11 will only multicast at around 1Mbps. So that's why we were having the problem with the multicast over AirMax equipment. On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 11:59 AM, richard sterne wireless.r...@gmail.comwrote: Did you get any pricing for the Amino STB's? I would like to know more about your setup. Richard WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
So we're looking at $25k for the hardware to do an MPEG-4 H.264 IPTV system for up to 100 channels? Remaining items needed (or desired): 1) Middleware (Minerva) 2) Licensing (only your past seems to indicate that this can be done) 3) VoD 4) Content stream from Avail or Echostar Missing anything? Costs for the others? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 12:20 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? Interestingly enough, I've had a project lying on my desk for a couple weeks now which requires streaming live content to a large group of people in a neighborhood (think of it as a neighborhood association wanting to broadcast their meetings to their residents). I don't know why I didn't see the similarity between this post and that project. I just spent the last couple hours working on this, and now have a Linux server streaming the content out over the wireless network multicast without any issues. Taking a deeper look... We have ASI-input cards from Linear Systems. They take 4 ASI streams... maybe 32 each? I can't remember. A quick look on eBay found some Moto C-Band receivers that output 32 ASI streams for under $1000. An entire receiving, encoding, streaming headend for under 100 channels could be built for probably under $25,000. I don't know what you're after, but if there is some serious interest in putting effort into something like this, we might be on board. Jayson On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Blake, In general the IPTV principles being discussed would apply to any broadband wireless system either license-free, licensed, or licensed-lite. jack Blake Covarrubias wrote: I've read the responses from others who are running IPTV over wireless. My question is when you all are saying wireless, do you mean unlicensed 2.4ghz or 5.8ghz, or do you mean wireless technology in general? My company utilizes 2.5 and 3.65ghz, which are the same frequencies we'd be looking to use to deploy IPTV. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
The biggest ones are getting the rights to the content, and getting the content. I don't remember what we paid for Mineva. Before that, we used Espial ( http://www.espial.com/) Might want to check them out. No idea what they're cost is now either. I've never worked with any VoD content. On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote: So we're looking at $25k for the hardware to do an MPEG-4 H.264 IPTV system for up to 100 channels? Remaining items needed (or desired): 1) Middleware (Minerva) 2) Licensing (only your past seems to indicate that this can be done) 3) VoD 4) Content stream from Avail or Echostar Missing anything? Costs for the others? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 12:20 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? Interestingly enough, I've had a project lying on my desk for a couple weeks now which requires streaming live content to a large group of people in a neighborhood (think of it as a neighborhood association wanting to broadcast their meetings to their residents). I don't know why I didn't see the similarity between this post and that project. I just spent the last couple hours working on this, and now have a Linux server streaming the content out over the wireless network multicast without any issues. Taking a deeper look... We have ASI-input cards from Linear Systems. They take 4 ASI streams... maybe 32 each? I can't remember. A quick look on eBay found some Moto C-Band receivers that output 32 ASI streams for under $1000. An entire receiving, encoding, streaming headend for under 100 channels could be built for probably under $25,000. I don't know what you're after, but if there is some serious interest in putting effort into something like this, we might be on board. Jayson On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Blake, In general the IPTV principles being discussed would apply to any broadband wireless system either license-free, licensed, or licensed-lite. jack Blake Covarrubias wrote: I've read the responses from others who are running IPTV over wireless. My question is when you all are saying wireless, do you mean unlicensed 2.4ghz or 5.8ghz, or do you mean wireless technology in general? My company utilizes 2.5 and 3.65ghz, which are the same frequencies we'd be looking to use to deploy IPTV. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
I've read the responses from others who are running IPTV over wireless. My question is when you all are saying wireless, do you mean unlicensed 2.4ghz or 5.8ghz, or do you mean wireless technology in general? My company utilizes 2.5 and 3.65ghz, which are the same frequencies we'd be looking to use to deploy IPTV. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
We got OK to do it over MT equipment in unlicensed bands. Their concern was that A) they didn't want it going over any sort of public network (i.e. WiFi Hotspot) and B) encryption remained in-tact from the headend to the STB. On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 1:19 AM, Blake Covarrubias bl...@beamspeed.comwrote: I've read the responses from others who are running IPTV over wireless. My question is when you all are saying wireless, do you mean unlicensed 2.4ghz or 5.8ghz, or do you mean wireless technology in general? My company utilizes 2.5 and 3.65ghz, which are the same frequencies we'd be looking to use to deploy IPTV. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
That seams reasonable. Did I understand you correctly earlier in that you can not talk about the license process due to NDA, or due to not being directly involved? I will be contacting Avail Media and checking into their offerings. Jayson Baker wrote: We got OK to do it over MT equipment in unlicensed bands. Their concern was that A) they didn't want it going over any sort of public network (i.e. WiFi Hotspot) and B) encryption remained in-tact from the headend to the STB. On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 1:19 AM, Blake Covarrubias bl...@beamspeed.comwrote: I've read the responses from others who are running IPTV over wireless. My question is when you all are saying wireless, do you mean unlicensed 2.4ghz or 5.8ghz, or do you mean wireless technology in general? My company utilizes 2.5 and 3.65ghz, which are the same frequencies we'd be looking to use to deploy IPTV. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
A couple racks of equipment to provide a couple hundred channels and enough VoD just takes money. Usually when you want one channel from a content provider, they make you offer them all. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 10:50 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? Do you have any idea why? And, from my reading of FCC documents a IP Video delivery service is not bound by the same CATV must carry rules. Why do you say 500k for a real system? As if it costing less makes it not real? Or do you mean some industry we decide this is what/how you will do it setup? Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Companies like Avail and EchoStar (there has been some consolidation) provide the raw streams. Organizations like NRTC (and maybe EchoStar) do the licensing. There were others, but they didn't have a very good HD channel lineup. Trust me, I would love to find a way to do this without $500k and legally on wireless. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 10:53 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? You have to spend a lot of money getting the rights from the channels - this is painful. An alternative is to resell service from a company that already has this. I believe you must use the feed from that particular company, but I could be wrong. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 11:50 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Do you have any idea why? And, from my reading of FCC documents a IP Video delivery service is not bound by the same CATV must carry rules. Why do you say 500k for a real system? As if it costing less makes it not real? Or do you mean some industry we decide this is what/how you will do it setup? Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
?There is no way they can make you take them all, i know of hundreds of CATV systems that only have ONE non OTA channel in order to qualify as CATV and charge in the 25~35 range. Check the FCC CATV DB and you can locate them too. I do not want hundreds of channels or VoD right now. Also, you cna get 32 channel ASI cards for about $1000, and a ASIIP box for about $2000. I am looking at other methods of providing the IP stream, preferably to purchase it directly. Then the headend becomes a caching IP stream box. I understand what is being said about needing to maintain the encryption from start to finish. I will ask about this and find out whos encryption this would be. If you have some specific contacts that said no to wireless, I would like to talk with them if that is possible. Mike Hammett wrote: A couple racks of equipment to provide a couple hundred channels and enough VoD just takes money. Usually when you want one channel from a content provider, they make you offer them all. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 10:50 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? Do you have any idea why? And, from my reading of FCC documents a IP Video delivery service is not bound by the same CATV must carry rules. Why do you say 500k for a real system? As if it costing less makes it not real? Or do you mean some industry we decide this is what/how you will do it setup? Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
So: 1) Content streams from Avail (or possibly EchoStar) 2) Independent licensing process 3) Home built headend (though reading back through your previous posts, I get the impression you used one from Avail) 4) Minerva middleware (I understand that to be the best one) 5) Moto STBs - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 1:09 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I cannot comment on the contracts. As I have mentioned previously, we bought the aggregated content from Avail Media. They can probably help you. We did still have direct contracts with the networks though. Ultimately, they were the ones who agreed to allow us to distribute via wireless. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 8:19 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Jayson, Can you elaborate on the contracts and the system you have in place to provide this? -RickG On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Actually, you're completely wrong. We got all of our networks to agree to allow us to transport it wirelessly. The requirement was that we own the network entirely, from end A to end Z, and that we control every part of it. The ones that are concerned about theft (i.e. ESPN/Disney, HBO, etc.) already had encrypted stream anyway. We successfuly transmitted all of our programming over MikroTik wireless links without any problems. Including HD. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
1) Content streams from Avail (or possibly EchoStar) Yes 2) Independent licensing process Yes, in some cases. Never worked with E*. 3) Home built headend (though reading back through your previous posts, I get the impression you used one from Avail) We used Avail's headend. Initially, it was total garbage. When I left that company, they were still trying to get simple things done reliably. I'm sure it's resolved by now. If I were to do it again, I'd build my own, and save about $250k. 4) Minerva middleware (I understand that to be the best one) Yes, indeed. They do have the best in my opinion. But there are cheaper ones, that will do the trick. I wish I could remember what we initially used. Started with an E... *shrug* 5) Moto STBs Yes, but again there are cheaper ones. The Mood (or i3, I think they're one-in-the-same now) boxes work just as good, and are much cheaper. I'm trying to remember the name of the company/guy we bought a lot of this equipment from. If I think of it, I'll post it. On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 8:37 AM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote: So: 1) Content streams from Avail (or possibly EchoStar) 2) Independent licensing process 3) Home built headend (though reading back through your previous posts, I get the impression you used one from Avail) 4) Minerva middleware (I understand that to be the best one) 5) Moto STBs - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 1:09 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I cannot comment on the contracts. As I have mentioned previously, we bought the aggregated content from Avail Media. They can probably help you. We did still have direct contracts with the networks though. Ultimately, they were the ones who agreed to allow us to distribute via wireless. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 8:19 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Jayson, Can you elaborate on the contracts and the system you have in place to provide this? -RickG On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Actually, you're completely wrong. We got all of our networks to agree to allow us to transport it wirelessly. The requirement was that we own the network entirely, from end A to end Z, and that we control every part of it. The ones that are concerned about theft (i.e. ESPN/Disney, HBO, etc.) already had encrypted stream anyway. We successfuly transmitted all of our programming over MikroTik wireless links without any problems. Including HD. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Blake, In general the IPTV principles being discussed would apply to any broadband wireless system either license-free, licensed, or licensed-lite. jack Blake Covarrubias wrote: I've read the responses from others who are running IPTV over wireless. My question is when you all are saying wireless, do you mean unlicensed 2.4ghz or 5.8ghz, or do you mean wireless technology in general? My company utilizes 2.5 and 3.65ghz, which are the same frequencies we'd be looking to use to deploy IPTV. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Interestingly enough, I've had a project lying on my desk for a couple weeks now which requires streaming live content to a large group of people in a neighborhood (think of it as a neighborhood association wanting to broadcast their meetings to their residents). I don't know why I didn't see the similarity between this post and that project. I just spent the last couple hours working on this, and now have a Linux server streaming the content out over the wireless network multicast without any issues. Taking a deeper look... We have ASI-input cards from Linear Systems. They take 4 ASI streams... maybe 32 each? I can't remember. A quick look on eBay found some Moto C-Band receivers that output 32 ASI streams for under $1000. An entire receiving, encoding, streaming headend for under 100 channels could be built for probably under $25,000. I don't know what you're after, but if there is some serious interest in putting effort into something like this, we might be on board. Jayson On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Blake, In general the IPTV principles being discussed would apply to any broadband wireless system either license-free, licensed, or licensed-lite. jack Blake Covarrubias wrote: I've read the responses from others who are running IPTV over wireless. My question is when you all are saying wireless, do you mean unlicensed 2.4ghz or 5.8ghz, or do you mean wireless technology in general? My company utilizes 2.5 and 3.65ghz, which are the same frequencies we'd be looking to use to deploy IPTV. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Well thats exactly what I had in mind. Its the licensing portion that is getting me. Now, the requirement for enc to the STB, is not that big a deal, unless they can mandate what type and such. I also know that some places are doing a IP feed over there digital channel @19mbit (2sd 1 hd, iirc). In order to dump that to a IP network takes just a receiver and Ethernet connection. Jayson Baker wrote: Interestingly enough, I've had a project lying on my desk for a couple weeks now which requires streaming live content to a large group of people in a neighborhood (think of it as a neighborhood association wanting to broadcast their meetings to their residents). I don't know why I didn't see the similarity between this post and that project. I just spent the last couple hours working on this, and now have a Linux server streaming the content out over the wireless network multicast without any issues. Taking a deeper look... We have ASI-input cards from Linear Systems. They take 4 ASI streams... maybe 32 each? I can't remember. A quick look on eBay found some Moto C-Band receivers that output 32 ASI streams for under $1000. An entire receiving, encoding, streaming headend for under 100 channels could be built for probably under $25,000. I don't know what you're after, but if there is some serious interest in putting effort into something like this, we might be on board. Jayson On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Jack Unger jun...@ask-wi.com wrote: Blake, In general the IPTV principles being discussed would apply to any broadband wireless system either license-free, licensed, or licensed-lite. jack Blake Covarrubias wrote: I've read the responses from others who are running IPTV over wireless. My question is when you all are saying wireless, do you mean unlicensed 2.4ghz or 5.8ghz, or do you mean wireless technology in general? My company utilizes 2.5 and 3.65ghz, which are the same frequencies we'd be looking to use to deploy IPTV. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 15, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Author - Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 www.ask-wi.com 818-227-4220 jun...@ask-wi.com Sent from my Pizzicato PluckString... WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
We successfuly transmitted all of our programming over MikroTik wireless links without any problems. Including HD. I have one doubt. Let's say that one SD/HD channel takes 1Mbps (just to make math simple) and let's say that the number of total available channel is 50. (the total number or channel is not a real problem to me, but let's say the number is very high, 50 or 100) Multicast can help a lot (if it's broadcast not video on demand) but my doubt is about the number of simultaneous IPTV channels per sector antenna (i.e. per radio channel). If you have 20 customers on the same sector, each one of them watching a different TV channel you need 20Mbps per sector + the normal internet traffic. Let's say 30Mbps per sector. Or you can think to use a second sector IF the area is not so crowded. So the more successful is the service, the more problem you have on the radio channel (access network). So my concern is not on the backbone, it is on the access network. Another point is: what happens when you experience interference in the area? Web surfing can be acceptable with some interference, but IPTV is a pain. Personally I would feel safer in licensed frequencies, but this is my feeling, comments are welcome also about this. Other doubt: one user means maximum one channel per user? Or the same user can watch multiple IPTV channels at the same time? (e.g. I have 2 tv, so I put two IPTV boxes kids watch Disney, I watch football) Any wireless operator that is massively using IPTV wants to comment? Thank you -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform S.p.A. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
It would require 802.11n or 802.16d in 15 MHz or larger channels to be useful. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Paolo Di Francesco paolo.difrance...@teleinform.com Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 1:39 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? We successfuly transmitted all of our programming over MikroTik wireless links without any problems. Including HD. I have one doubt. Let's say that one SD/HD channel takes 1Mbps (just to make math simple) and let's say that the number of total available channel is 50. (the total number or channel is not a real problem to me, but let's say the number is very high, 50 or 100) Multicast can help a lot (if it's broadcast not video on demand) but my doubt is about the number of simultaneous IPTV channels per sector antenna (i.e. per radio channel). If you have 20 customers on the same sector, each one of them watching a different TV channel you need 20Mbps per sector + the normal internet traffic. Let's say 30Mbps per sector. Or you can think to use a second sector IF the area is not so crowded. So the more successful is the service, the more problem you have on the radio channel (access network). So my concern is not on the backbone, it is on the access network. Another point is: what happens when you experience interference in the area? Web surfing can be acceptable with some interference, but IPTV is a pain. Personally I would feel safer in licensed frequencies, but this is my feeling, comments are welcome also about this. Other doubt: one user means maximum one channel per user? Or the same user can watch multiple IPTV channels at the same time? (e.g. I have 2 tv, so I put two IPTV boxes kids watch Disney, I watch football) Any wireless operator that is massively using IPTV wants to comment? Thank you -- Ing. Paolo Di Francesco Teleinform S.p.A. Sede Legale: Via Francesco Paolo Di Blasi 1, 90144 Palermo Unita' Operativa: Via Regione Siciliana 49, 90046 Monreale (Palermo) Tel: +39-091-6408576, +39-091-6404501 Fax: +39-091-6406200 http://www.wikitel.it http://www.teleinform.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
That is why my target is to just qualify for being a CATV operator (and my target spots are the same, less then 15 channels, all but one is OTA). Using multicast, all say, 20 channels will head out, no extra use per TV and no VoD. (for the wireless network). This also assumes its a dedicated sector for iptv or has the margin to support both. The DSL network OTOH, can support 2 to 5 channels per link, so as long as you have the BW into the ATM and then out to the remote dslams, your ok for making it a pure VoD channel setup. Only stream the ones needed when needed and it will reduce per CPE use with a over all higher network use. Paolo Di Francesco wrote: We successfuly transmitted all of our programming over MikroTik wireless links without any problems. Including HD. I have one doubt. Let's say that one SD/HD channel takes 1Mbps (just to make math simple) and let's say that the number of total available channel is 50. (the total number or channel is not a real problem to me, but let's say the number is very high, 50 or 100) Multicast can help a lot (if it's broadcast not video on demand) but my doubt is about the number of simultaneous IPTV channels per sector antenna (i.e. per radio channel). If you have 20 customers on the same sector, each one of them watching a different TV channel you need 20Mbps per sector + the normal internet traffic. Let's say 30Mbps per sector. Or you can think to use a second sector IF the area is not so crowded. So the more successful is the service, the more problem you have on the radio channel (access network). So my concern is not on the backbone, it is on the access network. Another point is: what happens when you experience interference in the area? Web surfing can be acceptable with some interference, but IPTV is a pain. Personally I would feel safer in licensed frequencies, but this is my feeling, comments are welcome also about this. Other doubt: one user means maximum one channel per user? Or the same user can watch multiple IPTV channels at the same time? (e.g. I have 2 tv, so I put two IPTV boxes kids watch Disney, I watch football) Any wireless operator that is massively using IPTV wants to comment? Thank you WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
There are MDU systems and then there are IP Headend systems. They are different. An IP headend system is a cable company in a rack + a couple dishes. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 11:56 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? Jayson Baker wrote: Building the headend isn't that difficult, you're right. Ours was actually pretty simple. We used multi-channel satellite receivers; each tuned 32 channels I think. It had an ASI output. Thats more channels then I am even really looking to start will, unless I can find a 'prepackaged' setup with more. We'd take the ASI stream, and run it into an ASI-input PCI card. Each card took 4 ASI streams, and was about $1000 each. Linux software on the server pulled each channel out of the ASI and converted it to MPEG 4. Cheap, easy, simple. They'd put out a multicast stream, which our network took and pushed out the fiber ring. We even had it going down some wireless links, so I could get it at my house 20 miles away. The money in the headend comes in when you by the middleware -- this you cannot just roll your own Middleware handles billing, authentication, licenses, guide, etc. I must be missing something. It seams to me that billing and authentication are simple and can be handled by the system that I pretty much have in place now. I am not sure what licenses such software would need to deal with. A guide is pretty easy too, unless there is some form of 'Intellectual Property' BS going on with rolling your own guide capabilities. Making deals with companies to rebroadcast their channels is going to be another major hurdle. Unless you are big (i.e. have $$$) don't think you'll be carrying anything in the Disney/ESPN/ABC family. And forget about HBO. You'll need a fancy (i.e. $$$) lawyer who has been down this road before to negotiate these deals. When we set ours up, we hired a lawyer away from Comcast. After everything was in place, he went on to other things. Yea thats what I figured. Echostar has an IPTV solution, you may want to look into that. AFAIK, you pay them for everything, and they handle it all. Their feed, their headend, their encoders, their middleware, their STB's. One nice thing about that is it's the same DISH Network interface a lot of satellite users are already used to. What I have looked into with them is they have a may not cross public right of way clause making is useless for anything except MDU's, or is that only with dish network label setups? Will check it out. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:16 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Thats the problem, if I had 50K sitting around for gear, I would not be putting it into TV (well, maybe I would be, but more BW, more towers, faster clients, etc come to mind sooner). I can build a head end for far far less then that, If I stuck to the free channels or made my won deals with each channel. There are 1000's (well, close) of free to air channels out there. Some even give explicit permission to rebroadcast the channel, as long as you notify them etc. I was hoping to find a place that would let me purchase channels X, Y, and Z, etc. The locals are easy enough to deal with. So, Looks like I will need to do my own head end, no biggie over all. Who do I talk to about licensing? I knwo some channels are direct, some are not. Is there a list? And, can a person who already has a license sub-license to me? Like MDU style? I know Charter does that, if you have enough people (IE I suspect enough money) If I could sublet off of a existing licensee and do my own IP transport, that would work out pretty well. Anyone have a license contract they can share? (most seam to have some NDA stuffs) can...@believewireless.net wrote: When we looked into Avail Media, it was a $500,000 investment to start if I remember correctly. (Headend, set top boxes, etc.) On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Have a look at Avail Media. We used them in the past for an FTTH project I was involved in. They will provide you the headend, and satellite feeds from their super-headend (aggregator). They work with the networks and it makes licensing and such a little easier. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Actually, you're completely wrong. We got all of our networks to agree to allow us to transport it wirelessly. The requirement was that we own the network entirely, from end A to end Z, and that we control every part of it. The ones that are concerned about theft (i.e. ESPN/Disney, HBO, etc.) already had encrypted stream anyway. We successfuly transmitted all of our programming over MikroTik wireless links without any problems. Including HD. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
I know you can do it over wireless as a company up north between me and Mark does it... Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.comwrote: Actually, you're completely wrong. We got all of our networks to agree to allow us to transport it wirelessly. The requirement was that we own the network entirely, from end A to end Z, and that we control every part of it. The ones that are concerned about theft (i.e. ESPN/Disney, HBO, etc.) already had encrypted stream anyway. We successfuly transmitted all of our programming over MikroTik wireless links without any problems. Including HD. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Jayson, Can you elaborate on the contracts and the system you have in place to provide this? -RickG On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.comwrote: Actually, you're completely wrong. We got all of our networks to agree to allow us to transport it wirelessly. The requirement was that we own the network entirely, from end A to end Z, and that we control every part of it. The ones that are concerned about theft (i.e. ESPN/Disney, HBO, etc.) already had encrypted stream anyway. We successfuly transmitted all of our programming over MikroTik wireless links without any problems. Including HD. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Indeed because I have spoken with 4 of the top content distributors and license shops and none of them CAN. They want to but can't. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 9:19 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? Jayson, Can you elaborate on the contracts and the system you have in place to provide this? -RickG On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.comwrote: Actually, you're completely wrong. We got all of our networks to agree to allow us to transport it wirelessly. The requirement was that we own the network entirely, from end A to end Z, and that we control every part of it. The ones that are concerned about theft (i.e. ESPN/Disney, HBO, etc.) already had encrypted stream anyway. We successfuly transmitted all of our programming over MikroTik wireless links without any problems. Including HD. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Do you have any idea why? And, from my reading of FCC documents a IP Video delivery service is not bound by the same CATV must carry rules. Why do you say 500k for a real system? As if it costing less makes it not real? Or do you mean some industry we decide this is what/how you will do it setup? Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
You have to spend a lot of money getting the rights from the channels - this is painful. An alternative is to resell service from a company that already has this. I believe you must use the feed from that particular company, but I could be wrong. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 11:50 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Do you have any idea why? And, from my reading of FCC documents a IP Video delivery service is not bound by the same CATV must carry rules. Why do you say 500k for a real system? As if it costing less makes it not real? Or do you mean some industry we decide this is what/how you will do it setup? Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Josh Luthman wrote: You have to spend a lot of money getting the rights from the channels - this is painful. I expected this part to take some time. In all honesty the target sites (one no longer has a coax corp, the other has ONE non OTA channel, so as to qualify as a CATV sys) is you start with one channel (but prefer a small set). An alternative is to resell service from a company that already has this. I believe you must use the feed from that particular company, but I could be wrong. Do you mean you have to have their wireless feed? Or, do you need their IP feed? It is 'simple' to setup a IP feed. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources. --- Albert Einstein On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 11:50 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Do you have any idea why? And, from my reading of FCC documents a IP Video delivery service is not bound by the same CATV must carry rules. Why do you say 500k for a real system? As if it costing less makes it not real? Or do you mean some industry we decide this is what/how you will do it setup? Mike Hammett wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
I cannot comment on the contracts. As I have mentioned previously, we bought the aggregated content from Avail Media. They can probably help you. We did still have direct contracts with the networks though. Ultimately, they were the ones who agreed to allow us to distribute via wireless. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 8:19 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Jayson, Can you elaborate on the contracts and the system you have in place to provide this? -RickG On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Actually, you're completely wrong. We got all of our networks to agree to allow us to transport it wirelessly. The requirement was that we own the network entirely, from end A to end Z, and that we control every part of it. The ones that are concerned about theft (i.e. ESPN/Disney, HBO, etc.) already had encrypted stream anyway. We successfuly transmitted all of our programming over MikroTik wireless links without any problems. Including HD. On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote: Every time this comes up, I say the same thing. You can't over wireless. The content owners WILL NOT license it for wireless use. I've tried numerous times. Expect to dump about $500k into a real system to do IPTV. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: jree...@18-30chat.net Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:44 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
You can roll your own middleware until you have to deal with encryption. Most IPTV settop boxes are provisioned via bootp to push out the OS and the channel maps, so it is a trivial matter to provision a STB on your own. Encryption, however, complicates matters a lot and, as Jayson mentioned, even if you could roll your own, it doesn't matter the networks require specific platform and aren't going to trust home-grown solutions. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 2:20 PM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Jayson Baker wrote: Echostar's IPTV product is different from DISH Network's wholesale/resellable service. DISH cannot cross ROW's. Echo IPTV can, it was designed to do just that. Middleware was something I wasn't too heavily involved in, to be honest with you. But I do know your IPTV STB won't run without it. Take a look at Minerva - great middleware. You must use an approved middleware to get hooked up with the big boys like Disney -- they want to ensure that only people you sell their picture to are able to get it (i.e. encrypted, with a middleware controlling encryption and access). etc. etc. etc. Bah! Now see that kills the Roku's and other STB's like them. I wonder how they deal with netflix/hulu on xbox/ps3 On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:56 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Jayson Baker wrote: Building the headend isn't that difficult, you're right. Ours was actually pretty simple. We used multi-channel satellite receivers; each tuned 32 channels I think. It had an ASI output. Thats more channels then I am even really looking to start will, unless I can find a 'prepackaged' setup with more. We'd take the ASI stream, and run it into an ASI-input PCI card. Each card took 4 ASI streams, and was about $1000 each. Linux software on the server pulled each channel out of the ASI and converted it to MPEG 4. Cheap, easy, simple. They'd put out a multicast stream, which our network took and pushed out the fiber ring. We even had it going down some wireless links, so I could get it at my house 20 miles away. The money in the headend comes in when you by the middleware -- this you cannot just roll your own Middleware handles billing, authentication, licenses, guide, etc. I must be missing something. It seams to me that billing and authentication are simple and can be handled by the system that I pretty much have in place now. I am not sure what licenses such software would need to deal with. A guide is pretty easy too, unless there is some form of 'Intellectual Property' BS going on with rolling your own guide capabilities. Making deals with companies to rebroadcast their channels is going to be another major hurdle. Unless you are big (i.e. have $$$) don't think you'll be carrying anything in the Disney/ESPN/ABC family. And forget about HBO. You'll need a fancy (i.e. $$$) lawyer who has been down this road before to negotiate these deals. When we set ours up, we hired a lawyer away from Comcast. After everything was in place, he went on to other things. Yea thats what I figured. Echostar has an IPTV solution, you may want to look into that. AFAIK, you pay them for everything, and they handle it all. Their feed, their headend, their encoders, their middleware, their STB's. One nice thing about that is it's the same DISH Network interface a lot of satellite users are already used to. What I have looked into with them is they have a may not cross public right of way clause making is useless for anything except MDU's, or is that only with dish network label setups? Will check it out. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:16 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Thats the problem, if I had 50K sitting around for gear, I would not be putting it into TV (well, maybe I would be, but more BW, more towers, faster clients, etc come to mind sooner). I can build a head end for far far less then that, If I stuck to the free channels or made my won deals with each channel. There are 1000's (well, close) of free to air channels out there. Some even give explicit permission to rebroadcast the channel, as long as you notify them etc. I was hoping to find a place that would let me purchase channels X, Y, and Z, etc. The locals are easy enough to deal with. So, Looks like I will need to do my own head end, no biggie over all. Who do I talk to about licensing? I knwo some channels are direct, some are not. Is there a list? And, can a person who already has a license sub-license to me? Like MDU style? I know Charter does that, if you have enough people (IE I suspect enough money) If I could sublet off of a existing licensee and do my own IP transport, that would work out pretty well. Anyone have a license contract they can share? (most
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Most of the processing stuff can be done on Linux with VLC and/or FFMpeg (for IP to ASI conversion, transcoding/transrating, etc...) -Clint Ricker On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 8:18 PM, Blake Covarrubias bl...@beamspeed.comwrote: We're operate a small cable TV company in a minor section of our service area and carry about 55 channels which includes most of the major networks. We're interested in deploying IPTV. What middleware software would you recommend? You mentioned you used Linux in your headend environment. Can you elaborate on that setup, such as the software you were using to convert the channels to IP Multicast, set-top boxes being used, software providing channel guides, etc etc? Thanks. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 9, 2009, at 9:25 AM, Jayson Baker wrote: Building the headend isn't that difficult, you're right. Ours was actually pretty simple. We used multi-channel satellite receivers; each tuned 32 channels I think. It had an ASI output. We'd take the ASI stream, and run it into an ASI-input PCI card. Each card took 4 ASI streams, and was about $1000 each. Linux software on the server pulled each channel out of the ASI and converted it to MPEG 4. Cheap, easy, simple. They'd put out a multicast stream, which our network took and pushed out the fiber ring. We even had it going down some wireless links, so I could get it at my house 20 miles away. The money in the headend comes in when you by the middleware -- this you cannot just roll your own Middleware handles billing, authentication, licenses, guide, etc. Making deals with companies to rebroadcast their channels is going to be another major hurdle. Unless you are big (i.e. have $$$) don't think you'll be carrying anything in the Disney/ESPN/ABC family. And forget about HBO. You'll need a fancy (i.e. $$$) lawyer who has been down this road before to negotiate these deals. When we set ours up, we hired a lawyer away from Comcast. After everything was in place, he went on to other things. Echostar has an IPTV solution, you may want to look into that. AFAIK, you pay them for everything, and they handle it all. Their feed, their headend, their encoders, their middleware, their STB's. One nice thing about that is it's the same DISH Network interface a lot of satellite users are already used to. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:16 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Thats the problem, if I had 50K sitting around for gear, I would not be putting it into TV (well, maybe I would be, but more BW, more towers, faster clients, etc come to mind sooner). I can build a head end for far far less then that, If I stuck to the free channels or made my won deals with each channel. There are 1000's (well, close) of free to air channels out there. Some even give explicit permission to rebroadcast the channel, as long as you notify them etc. I was hoping to find a place that would let me purchase channels X, Y, and Z, etc. The locals are easy enough to deal with. So, Looks like I will need to do my own head end, no biggie over all. Who do I talk to about licensing? I knwo some channels are direct, some are not. Is there a list? And, can a person who already has a license sub-license to me? Like MDU style? I know Charter does that, if you have enough people (IE I suspect enough money) If I could sublet off of a existing licensee and do my own IP transport, that would work out pretty well. Anyone have a license contract they can share? (most seam to have some NDA stuffs) can...@believewireless.net wrote: When we looked into Avail Media, it was a $500,000 investment to start if I remember correctly. (Headend, set top boxes, etc.) On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Have a look at Avail Media. We used them in the past for an FTTH project I was involved in. They will provide you the headend, and satellite feeds from their super-headend (aggregator). They work with the networks and it makes licensing and such a little easier. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
If you're skeptical about putting $50k into IPTV, you probably need to be looking elsewhere. Even rolling your own, it can easily run you more than that. Satellite receivers are expensive. ASI to IP conversion is expensive. The likely upgrades to your network to handle the increased load is expensive. Then there's the problem that wireless gear and IPTV don't mix very well. Even all the matters of jitter / QOS aside that require some effort to get VoIP over wireless working well, most APs deployed today just don't have the throughput. You're basically talking about sustaining a 2Mbps stream (for mpeg4 SD stream) or, if you try to do HD, 10Mbps for each STB downstream of your access point. Most of the wireless gear in the market breaks down very quickly under that sort of load. On the other hand, if you're talking MDUs, wireless can handle the backhaul to a wired network without an issue. -Clint On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 11:16 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Thats the problem, if I had 50K sitting around for gear, I would not be putting it into TV (well, maybe I would be, but more BW, more towers, faster clients, etc come to mind sooner). I can build a head end for far far less then that, If I stuck to the free channels or made my won deals with each channel. There are 1000's (well, close) of free to air channels out there. Some even give explicit permission to rebroadcast the channel, as long as you notify them etc. I was hoping to find a place that would let me purchase channels X, Y, and Z, etc. The locals are easy enough to deal with. So, Looks like I will need to do my own head end, no biggie over all. Who do I talk to about licensing? I knwo some channels are direct, some are not. Is there a list? And, can a person who already has a license sub-license to me? Like MDU style? I know Charter does that, if you have enough people (IE I suspect enough money) If I could sublet off of a existing licensee and do my own IP transport, that would work out pretty well. Anyone have a license contract they can share? (most seam to have some NDA stuffs) can...@believewireless.net wrote: When we looked into Avail Media, it was a $500,000 investment to start if I remember correctly. (Headend, set top boxes, etc.) On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Have a look at Avail Media. We used them in the past for an FTTH project I was involved in. They will provide you the headend, and satellite feeds from their super-headend (aggregator). They work with the networks and it makes licensing and such a little easier. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Do you mean I can't just point a web cam at my TV and have the customer call me when they want to change the channel??? I need to rethink this then. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Clint Ricker Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:02 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it? If you're skeptical about putting $50k into IPTV, you probably need to be looking elsewhere. Even rolling your own, it can easily run you more than that. Satellite receivers are expensive. ASI to IP conversion is expensive. The likely upgrades to your network to handle the increased load is expensive. Then there's the problem that wireless gear and IPTV don't mix very well. Even all the matters of jitter / QOS aside that require some effort to get VoIP over wireless working well, most APs deployed today just don't have the throughput. You're basically talking about sustaining a 2Mbps stream (for mpeg4 SD stream) or, if you try to do HD, 10Mbps for each STB downstream of your access point. Most of the wireless gear in the market breaks down very quickly under that sort of load. On the other hand, if you're talking MDUs, wireless can handle the backhaul to a wired network without an issue. -Clint On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 11:16 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Thats the problem, if I had 50K sitting around for gear, I would not be putting it into TV (well, maybe I would be, but more BW, more towers, faster clients, etc come to mind sooner). I can build a head end for far far less then that, If I stuck to the free channels or made my won deals with each channel. There are 1000's (well, close) of free to air channels out there. Some even give explicit permission to rebroadcast the channel, as long as you notify them etc. I was hoping to find a place that would let me purchase channels X, Y, and Z, etc. The locals are easy enough to deal with. So, Looks like I will need to do my own head end, no biggie over all. Who do I talk to about licensing? I knwo some channels are direct, some are not. Is there a list? And, can a person who already has a license sub-license to me? Like MDU style? I know Charter does that, if you have enough people (IE I suspect enough money) If I could sublet off of a existing licensee and do my own IP transport, that would work out pretty well. Anyone have a license contract they can share? (most seam to have some NDA stuffs) can...@believewireless.net wrote: When we looked into Avail Media, it was a $500,000 investment to start if I remember correctly. (Headend, set top boxes, etc.) On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Have a look at Avail Media. We used them in the past for an FTTH project I was involved in. They will provide you the headend, and satellite feeds from their super-headend (aggregator). They work with the networks and it makes licensing and such a little easier. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
This may help a few of you out http://www.scribd.com/doc/7656628/HOw-to-Set-Up-Your-Own-Home-IPTVVoD-System http://www.aminocom.com/index.asp?PageID=2145848499 Richard 2009/11/11 Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com Do you mean I can't just point a web cam at my TV and have the customer call me when they want to change the channel??? I need to rethink this then. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
We're operate a small cable TV company in a minor section of our service area and carry about 55 channels which includes most of the major networks. We're interested in deploying IPTV. What middleware software would you recommend? You mentioned you used Linux in your headend environment. Can you elaborate on that setup, such as the software you were using to convert the channels to IP Multicast, set-top boxes being used, software providing channel guides, etc etc? Thanks. -- Blake Covarrubias On Nov 9, 2009, at 9:25 AM, Jayson Baker wrote: Building the headend isn't that difficult, you're right. Ours was actually pretty simple. We used multi-channel satellite receivers; each tuned 32 channels I think. It had an ASI output. We'd take the ASI stream, and run it into an ASI-input PCI card. Each card took 4 ASI streams, and was about $1000 each. Linux software on the server pulled each channel out of the ASI and converted it to MPEG 4. Cheap, easy, simple. They'd put out a multicast stream, which our network took and pushed out the fiber ring. We even had it going down some wireless links, so I could get it at my house 20 miles away. The money in the headend comes in when you by the middleware -- this you cannot just roll your own Middleware handles billing, authentication, licenses, guide, etc. Making deals with companies to rebroadcast their channels is going to be another major hurdle. Unless you are big (i.e. have $$$) don't think you'll be carrying anything in the Disney/ESPN/ABC family. And forget about HBO. You'll need a fancy (i.e. $$$) lawyer who has been down this road before to negotiate these deals. When we set ours up, we hired a lawyer away from Comcast. After everything was in place, he went on to other things. Echostar has an IPTV solution, you may want to look into that. AFAIK, you pay them for everything, and they handle it all. Their feed, their headend, their encoders, their middleware, their STB's. One nice thing about that is it's the same DISH Network interface a lot of satellite users are already used to. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:16 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Thats the problem, if I had 50K sitting around for gear, I would not be putting it into TV (well, maybe I would be, but more BW, more towers, faster clients, etc come to mind sooner). I can build a head end for far far less then that, If I stuck to the free channels or made my won deals with each channel. There are 1000's (well, close) of free to air channels out there. Some even give explicit permission to rebroadcast the channel, as long as you notify them etc. I was hoping to find a place that would let me purchase channels X, Y, and Z, etc. The locals are easy enough to deal with. So, Looks like I will need to do my own head end, no biggie over all. Who do I talk to about licensing? I knwo some channels are direct, some are not. Is there a list? And, can a person who already has a license sub-license to me? Like MDU style? I know Charter does that, if you have enough people (IE I suspect enough money) If I could sublet off of a existing licensee and do my own IP transport, that would work out pretty well. Anyone have a license contract they can share? (most seam to have some NDA stuffs) can...@believewireless.net wrote: When we looked into Avail Media, it was a $500,000 investment to start if I remember correctly. (Headend, set top boxes, etc.) On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Have a look at Avail Media. We used them in the past for an FTTH project I was involved in. They will provide you the headend, and satellite feeds from their super-headend (aggregator). They work with the networks and it makes licensing and such a little easier. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Have a look at Avail Media. We used them in the past for an FTTH project I was involved in. They will provide you the headend, and satellite feeds from their super-headend (aggregator). They work with the networks and it makes licensing and such a little easier. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
When we looked into Avail Media, it was a $500,000 investment to start if I remember correctly. (Headend, set top boxes, etc.) On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Have a look at Avail Media. We used them in the past for an FTTH project I was involved in. They will provide you the headend, and satellite feeds from their super-headend (aggregator). They work with the networks and it makes licensing and such a little easier. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Thats the problem, if I had 50K sitting around for gear, I would not be putting it into TV (well, maybe I would be, but more BW, more towers, faster clients, etc come to mind sooner). I can build a head end for far far less then that, If I stuck to the free channels or made my won deals with each channel. There are 1000's (well, close) of free to air channels out there. Some even give explicit permission to rebroadcast the channel, as long as you notify them etc. I was hoping to find a place that would let me purchase channels X, Y, and Z, etc. The locals are easy enough to deal with. So, Looks like I will need to do my own head end, no biggie over all. Who do I talk to about licensing? I knwo some channels are direct, some are not. Is there a list? And, can a person who already has a license sub-license to me? Like MDU style? I know Charter does that, if you have enough people (IE I suspect enough money) If I could sublet off of a existing licensee and do my own IP transport, that would work out pretty well. Anyone have a license contract they can share? (most seam to have some NDA stuffs) can...@believewireless.net wrote: When we looked into Avail Media, it was a $500,000 investment to start if I remember correctly. (Headend, set top boxes, etc.) On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Have a look at Avail Media. We used them in the past for an FTTH project I was involved in. They will provide you the headend, and satellite feeds from their super-headend (aggregator). They work with the networks and it makes licensing and such a little easier. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Building the headend isn't that difficult, you're right. Ours was actually pretty simple. We used multi-channel satellite receivers; each tuned 32 channels I think. It had an ASI output. We'd take the ASI stream, and run it into an ASI-input PCI card. Each card took 4 ASI streams, and was about $1000 each. Linux software on the server pulled each channel out of the ASI and converted it to MPEG 4. Cheap, easy, simple. They'd put out a multicast stream, which our network took and pushed out the fiber ring. We even had it going down some wireless links, so I could get it at my house 20 miles away. The money in the headend comes in when you by the middleware -- this you cannot just roll your own Middleware handles billing, authentication, licenses, guide, etc. Making deals with companies to rebroadcast their channels is going to be another major hurdle. Unless you are big (i.e. have $$$) don't think you'll be carrying anything in the Disney/ESPN/ABC family. And forget about HBO. You'll need a fancy (i.e. $$$) lawyer who has been down this road before to negotiate these deals. When we set ours up, we hired a lawyer away from Comcast. After everything was in place, he went on to other things. Echostar has an IPTV solution, you may want to look into that. AFAIK, you pay them for everything, and they handle it all. Their feed, their headend, their encoders, their middleware, their STB's. One nice thing about that is it's the same DISH Network interface a lot of satellite users are already used to. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:16 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Thats the problem, if I had 50K sitting around for gear, I would not be putting it into TV (well, maybe I would be, but more BW, more towers, faster clients, etc come to mind sooner). I can build a head end for far far less then that, If I stuck to the free channels or made my won deals with each channel. There are 1000's (well, close) of free to air channels out there. Some even give explicit permission to rebroadcast the channel, as long as you notify them etc. I was hoping to find a place that would let me purchase channels X, Y, and Z, etc. The locals are easy enough to deal with. So, Looks like I will need to do my own head end, no biggie over all. Who do I talk to about licensing? I knwo some channels are direct, some are not. Is there a list? And, can a person who already has a license sub-license to me? Like MDU style? I know Charter does that, if you have enough people (IE I suspect enough money) If I could sublet off of a existing licensee and do my own IP transport, that would work out pretty well. Anyone have a license contract they can share? (most seam to have some NDA stuffs) can...@believewireless.net wrote: When we looked into Avail Media, it was a $500,000 investment to start if I remember correctly. (Headend, set top boxes, etc.) On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Have a look at Avail Media. We used them in the past for an FTTH project I was involved in. They will provide you the headend, and satellite feeds from their super-headend (aggregator). They work with the networks and it makes licensing and such a little easier. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
The best option is create your own local content no license fees. This means everything the local TV station has with no FCC license. Probably only doable with a big cash reserve you pulled out of the stock market. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Jayson Baker wrote: Building the headend isn't that difficult, you're right. Ours was actually pretty simple. We used multi-channel satellite receivers; each tuned 32 channels I think. It had an ASI output. Thats more channels then I am even really looking to start will, unless I can find a 'prepackaged' setup with more. We'd take the ASI stream, and run it into an ASI-input PCI card. Each card took 4 ASI streams, and was about $1000 each. Linux software on the server pulled each channel out of the ASI and converted it to MPEG 4. Cheap, easy, simple. They'd put out a multicast stream, which our network took and pushed out the fiber ring. We even had it going down some wireless links, so I could get it at my house 20 miles away. The money in the headend comes in when you by the middleware -- this you cannot just roll your own Middleware handles billing, authentication, licenses, guide, etc. I must be missing something. It seams to me that billing and authentication are simple and can be handled by the system that I pretty much have in place now. I am not sure what licenses such software would need to deal with. A guide is pretty easy too, unless there is some form of 'Intellectual Property' BS going on with rolling your own guide capabilities. Making deals with companies to rebroadcast their channels is going to be another major hurdle. Unless you are big (i.e. have $$$) don't think you'll be carrying anything in the Disney/ESPN/ABC family. And forget about HBO. You'll need a fancy (i.e. $$$) lawyer who has been down this road before to negotiate these deals. When we set ours up, we hired a lawyer away from Comcast. After everything was in place, he went on to other things. Yea thats what I figured. Echostar has an IPTV solution, you may want to look into that. AFAIK, you pay them for everything, and they handle it all. Their feed, their headend, their encoders, their middleware, their STB's. One nice thing about that is it's the same DISH Network interface a lot of satellite users are already used to. What I have looked into with them is they have a may not cross public right of way clause making is useless for anything except MDU's, or is that only with dish network label setups? Will check it out. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:16 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Thats the problem, if I had 50K sitting around for gear, I would not be putting it into TV (well, maybe I would be, but more BW, more towers, faster clients, etc come to mind sooner). I can build a head end for far far less then that, If I stuck to the free channels or made my won deals with each channel. There are 1000's (well, close) of free to air channels out there. Some even give explicit permission to rebroadcast the channel, as long as you notify them etc. I was hoping to find a place that would let me purchase channels X, Y, and Z, etc. The locals are easy enough to deal with. So, Looks like I will need to do my own head end, no biggie over all. Who do I talk to about licensing? I knwo some channels are direct, some are not. Is there a list? And, can a person who already has a license sub-license to me? Like MDU style? I know Charter does that, if you have enough people (IE I suspect enough money) If I could sublet off of a existing licensee and do my own IP transport, that would work out pretty well. Anyone have a license contract they can share? (most seam to have some NDA stuffs) can...@believewireless.net wrote: When we looked into Avail Media, it was a $500,000 investment to start if I remember correctly. (Headend, set top boxes, etc.) On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Have a look at Avail Media. We used them in the past for an FTTH project I was involved in. They will provide you the headend, and satellite feeds from their super-headend (aggregator). They work with the networks and it makes licensing and such a little easier. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam to be a whole lot of options. I can A) build my own IP headend B) nada . I can not find a single IPTV provider that truly caters to the resident, soho, etc. There is one that does so for huge cable op's but thats not where I am at, yet =) I can build my own head end no problem. Licensing is the primary issues there. I am guessing that is what is stopping the explosion of retail IPTV and instead pushing the more a la carte IP video streamers like NetFlix, HuLu, et al. So, what options exist for IPTV ? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] IPTV -- Anyone doing it?
Echostar's IPTV product is different from DISH Network's wholesale/resellable service. DISH cannot cross ROW's. Echo IPTV can, it was designed to do just that. Middleware was something I wasn't too heavily involved in, to be honest with you. But I do know your IPTV STB won't run without it. Take a look at Minerva - great middleware. You must use an approved middleware to get hooked up with the big boys like Disney -- they want to ensure that only people you sell their picture to are able to get it (i.e. encrypted, with a middleware controlling encryption and access). etc. etc. etc. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:56 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Jayson Baker wrote: Building the headend isn't that difficult, you're right. Ours was actually pretty simple. We used multi-channel satellite receivers; each tuned 32 channels I think. It had an ASI output. Thats more channels then I am even really looking to start will, unless I can find a 'prepackaged' setup with more. We'd take the ASI stream, and run it into an ASI-input PCI card. Each card took 4 ASI streams, and was about $1000 each. Linux software on the server pulled each channel out of the ASI and converted it to MPEG 4. Cheap, easy, simple. They'd put out a multicast stream, which our network took and pushed out the fiber ring. We even had it going down some wireless links, so I could get it at my house 20 miles away. The money in the headend comes in when you by the middleware -- this you cannot just roll your own Middleware handles billing, authentication, licenses, guide, etc. I must be missing something. It seams to me that billing and authentication are simple and can be handled by the system that I pretty much have in place now. I am not sure what licenses such software would need to deal with. A guide is pretty easy too, unless there is some form of 'Intellectual Property' BS going on with rolling your own guide capabilities. Making deals with companies to rebroadcast their channels is going to be another major hurdle. Unless you are big (i.e. have $$$) don't think you'll be carrying anything in the Disney/ESPN/ABC family. And forget about HBO. You'll need a fancy (i.e. $$$) lawyer who has been down this road before to negotiate these deals. When we set ours up, we hired a lawyer away from Comcast. After everything was in place, he went on to other things. Yea thats what I figured. Echostar has an IPTV solution, you may want to look into that. AFAIK, you pay them for everything, and they handle it all. Their feed, their headend, their encoders, their middleware, their STB's. One nice thing about that is it's the same DISH Network interface a lot of satellite users are already used to. What I have looked into with them is they have a may not cross public right of way clause making is useless for anything except MDU's, or is that only with dish network label setups? Will check it out. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 9:16 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: Thats the problem, if I had 50K sitting around for gear, I would not be putting it into TV (well, maybe I would be, but more BW, more towers, faster clients, etc come to mind sooner). I can build a head end for far far less then that, If I stuck to the free channels or made my won deals with each channel. There are 1000's (well, close) of free to air channels out there. Some even give explicit permission to rebroadcast the channel, as long as you notify them etc. I was hoping to find a place that would let me purchase channels X, Y, and Z, etc. The locals are easy enough to deal with. So, Looks like I will need to do my own head end, no biggie over all. Who do I talk to about licensing? I knwo some channels are direct, some are not. Is there a list? And, can a person who already has a license sub-license to me? Like MDU style? I know Charter does that, if you have enough people (IE I suspect enough money) If I could sublet off of a existing licensee and do my own IP transport, that would work out pretty well. Anyone have a license contract they can share? (most seam to have some NDA stuffs) can...@believewireless.net wrote: When we looked into Avail Media, it was a $500,000 investment to start if I remember correctly. (Headend, set top boxes, etc.) On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Jayson Baker jay...@spectrasurf.com wrote: Have a look at Avail Media. We used them in the past for an FTTH project I was involved in. They will provide you the headend, and satellite feeds from their super-headend (aggregator). They work with the networks and it makes licensing and such a little easier. On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 7:44 AM, jree...@18-30chat.net jree...@18-30chat.net wrote: I have been looking at some IPTV options and basically, there does not seam
