Re: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet
I don't do anything. I will do tech support ONLY for the paying person, and won't respond to complaints of slow or anything else. Am I losing money? Mulitple perspectives; 1. I've got a customer that pays a bill. 2. if I prohibit it, there's probably not much chance they'll all sign up. 3. I have no data use tracking anymore, so I don't know who's doing what. 4. I know if the one paying the bill leaves, that the other(s) will immediately call and re-up in another name. Potentially lost revenue isn't lost... It's just what you don't have. If we fret ourselves into a stroke over potentially lost, life would be hell. As it is, I have bigger fish to fry and more pressing issues at hand. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Matt lm7...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 9:56 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet What do you do when you find out that a customer is using a wireless router to share Internet with neighbor and splitting the bill? I am sure there are quite a few doing this but when they out right tell you about it when on a tech call is rare. It is against our TOS. What do others do? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet
It's not fretting myself over potentially lost revenue. It is a customer breaking the acceptable use policy. If you don't have a problem with customers sharing internet by all means don't list that as unacceptable use, your network, your rules. For me I see it as leaving money on the table. It is listed as not allowed in my acceptable use policy and if I find it occurring I remind the customer that sharing internet with neighbors is not allowed and offer to help them secure the network. I spin it as you don't want them 'stealing' your internet, and you don't want them dragging down your speed. If they say they know about it and condone it I remind them again that it is against policy and if it continues I will have to disconnect them. If someone can get something for free, pay half price or pay full price, 11 times out of 10 they will go with free. Will I gain customer #2? Sometimes. Will I lose customer #1? Sometimes, but if don't do anything I will never gain customer #2 and it negatively impacts my network as I now have more resources used and I gain no additional revenue. It also sets the precedent that the acceptable use policy does not need to be adhered to. On 11/1/11 12:38 PM, MDK wrote: I don't do anything. I will do tech support ONLY for the paying person, and won't respond to complaints of slow or anything else. Am I losing money? Mulitple perspectives; 1. I've got a customer that pays a bill. 2. if I prohibit it, there's probably not much chance they'll all sign up. 3. I have no data use tracking anymore, so I don't know who's doing what. 4. I know if the one paying the bill leaves, that the other(s) will immediately call and re-up in another name. Potentially lost revenue isn't lost... It's just what you don't have. If we fret ourselves into a stroke over potentially lost, life would be hell. As it is, I have bigger fish to fry and more pressing issues at hand. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mattlm7...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 9:56 AM To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet What do you do when you find out that a customer is using a wireless router to share Internet with neighbor and splitting the bill? I am sure there are quite a few doing this but when they out right tell you about it when on a tech call is rare. It is against our TOS. What do others do? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet
My customer agreement on acceptable use says interfering with proper operation of the network and abuse of bandwidth and breaking the laws of the land as matters that get my attention. It's simple and has yet to be a matter of any contention with any customer. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Sam Tetherow tethe...@shwisp.net Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2011 10:51 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet It's not fretting myself over potentially lost revenue. It is a customer breaking the acceptable use policy. If you don't have a problem with customers sharing internet by all means don't list that as unacceptable use, your network, your rules. For me I see it as leaving money on the table. It is listed as not allowed in my acceptable use policy and if I find it occurring I remind the customer that sharing internet with neighbors is not allowed and offer to help them secure the network. I spin it as you don't want them 'stealing' your internet, and you don't want them dragging down your speed. If they say they know about it and condone it I remind them again that it is against policy and if it continues I will have to disconnect them. If someone can get something for free, pay half price or pay full price, 11 times out of 10 they will go with free. Will I gain customer #2? Sometimes. Will I lose customer #1? Sometimes, but if don't do anything I will never gain customer #2 and it negatively impacts my network as I now have more resources used and I gain no additional revenue. It also sets the precedent that the acceptable use policy does not need to be adhered to. On 11/1/11 12:38 PM, MDK wrote: I don't do anything. I will do tech support ONLY for the paying person, and won't respond to complaints of slow or anything else. Am I losing money? Mulitple perspectives; 1. I've got a customer that pays a bill. 2. if I prohibit it, there's probably not much chance they'll all sign up. 3. I have no data use tracking anymore, so I don't know who's doing what. 4. I know if the one paying the bill leaves, that the other(s) will immediately call and re-up in another name. Potentially lost revenue isn't lost... It's just what you don't have. If we fret ourselves into a stroke over potentially lost, life would be hell. As it is, I have bigger fish to fry and more pressing issues at hand. ++ Neofast, Inc, Making internet easy 541-969-8200 509-386-4589 ++ -- From: Mattlm7...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 9:56 AM To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet What do you do when you find out that a customer is using a wireless router to share Internet with neighbor and splitting the bill? I am sure there are quite a few doing this but when they out right tell you about it when on a tech call is rare. It is against our TOS. What do others do? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet
Can you service those other customers? If not, it opens up an opportunity for yet another revenue stream. We call it the network neighborhood. We all have areas which can't be serviced, and the amount of households do not justify putting up your own equipment. This is where you get the neighbors together and have them foot the bill for a small tower and some radios. We have successfully done this many times now with various ISPs. Either way your customer is in violation in some for or another of most AUP's. Instead of firing the customer turn it into a positive if possible, especially if you can't service the other customer. Justin -- Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net Aol Yahoo IM: j2sw http://www.mtin.net/blog xISP News http://www.twitter.com/j2sw Follow me on Twitter WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet
What do you do when you find out that a customer is using a wireless router to share Internet with neighbor and splitting the bill? I am sure there are quite a few doing this but when they out right tell you about it when on a tech call is rare. It is against our TOS. What do others do? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet
Let them know that it is against the TOS of service and if they continue you will disconnect them. On 10/31/11 11:56 AM, Matt wrote: What do you do when you find out that a customer is using a wireless router to share Internet with neighbor and splitting the bill? I am sure there are quite a few doing this but when they out right tell you about it when on a tech call is rare. It is against our TOS. What do others do? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet
What would you do if you caught someone taking a computer out of your office? On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Sam Tetherow tethe...@shwisp.net wrote: Let them know that it is against the TOS of service and if they continue you will disconnect them. On 10/31/11 11:56 AM, Matt wrote: What do you do when you find out that a customer is using a wireless router to share Internet with neighbor and splitting the bill? I am sure there are quite a few doing this but when they out right tell you about it when on a tech call is rare. It is against our TOS. What do others do? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet
If the combined usage of the two households is well above average, It makes sense to take some kind of action. But, if the combined usage of the two households is in the lower 50%, and as long as you never hear from the non-customer household, and there aren't any problems you have to fix because of the second household, maybe it doesn't make sense to alienate a paying customer. Yes, they are violating your TOS, but perhaps they didn't really READ them, just skipped to the bottom and signed, like most of us have done some time or another (especially with software). If there usage could be mistaken for a single household, are the costs to service them really higher? Would servicing the second household with a second distant link be better for everyone, or is the solution they have in place now reasonable? If the usage is higher, maybe offer them a rate that takes that into account but is still a better deal than each buying along and you having to install another link? On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: What do you do when you find out that a customer is using a wireless router to share Internet with neighbor and splitting the bill? I am sure there are quite a few doing this but when they out right tell you about it when on a tech call is rare. It is against our TOS. What do others do? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet
It's Theft of Service any way you look at it... Tell them to stop doing it or you'll remove the connection. Regards, Chuck On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Dorn Hetzel d...@hetzel.org wrote: If the combined usage of the two households is well above average, It makes sense to take some kind of action. But, if the combined usage of the two households is in the lower 50%, and as long as you never hear from the non-customer household, and there aren't any problems you have to fix because of the second household, maybe it doesn't make sense to alienate a paying customer. Yes, they are violating your TOS, but perhaps they didn't really READ them, just skipped to the bottom and signed, like most of us have done some time or another (especially with software). If there usage could be mistaken for a single household, are the costs to service them really higher? Would servicing the second household with a second distant link be better for everyone, or is the solution they have in place now reasonable? If the usage is higher, maybe offer them a rate that takes that into account but is still a better deal than each buying along and you having to install another link? On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: What do you do when you find out that a customer is using a wireless router to share Internet with neighbor and splitting the bill? I am sure there are quite a few doing this but when they out right tell you about it when on a tech call is rare. It is against our TOS. What do others do? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet
The other issue one of my techs pointed out is if there is a legal problem such as illegal downloads or child pornography done on the 'shared' household, the 'owner' household should be prepared to suffer the consequences of the law. I'd make that information common knowledge to the 'owner' household. Thank You, Ben Royer, Operations Supervisor Royell Communications, Inc. -Original Message- From: Chuck Hogg Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 12:27 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet It's Theft of Service any way you look at it... Tell them to stop doing it or you'll remove the connection. Regards, Chuck On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Dorn Hetzel d...@hetzel.org wrote: If the combined usage of the two households is well above average, It makes sense to take some kind of action. But, if the combined usage of the two households is in the lower 50%, and as long as you never hear from the non-customer household, and there aren't any problems you have to fix because of the second household, maybe it doesn't make sense to alienate a paying customer. Yes, they are violating your TOS, but perhaps they didn't really READ them, just skipped to the bottom and signed, like most of us have done some time or another (especially with software). If there usage could be mistaken for a single household, are the costs to service them really higher? Would servicing the second household with a second distant link be better for everyone, or is the solution they have in place now reasonable? If the usage is higher, maybe offer them a rate that takes that into account but is still a better deal than each buying along and you having to install another link? On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: What do you do when you find out that a customer is using a wireless router to share Internet with neighbor and splitting the bill? I am sure there are quite a few doing this but when they out right tell you about it when on a tech call is rare. It is against our TOS. What do others do? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet
What??? So why not get one connection for the whole neighborhood to split up? 2 houses is 2 customers. I would double their bill and let them split that and I don't care if they use 1M/mth. It's steeling service and I look at it as if they are taking xmas presents directly from under my grand children's tree! From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Dorn Hetzel Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 12:23 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet If the combined usage of the two households is well above average, It makes sense to take some kind of action. But, if the combined usage of the two households is in the lower 50%, and as long as you never hear from the non-customer household, and there aren't any problems you have to fix because of the second household, maybe it doesn't make sense to alienate a paying customer. Yes, they are violating your TOS, but perhaps they didn't really READ them, just skipped to the bottom and signed, like most of us have done some time or another (especially with software). If there usage could be mistaken for a single household, are the costs to service them really higher? Would servicing the second household with a second distant link be better for everyone, or is the solution they have in place now reasonable? If the usage is higher, maybe offer them a rate that takes that into account but is still a better deal than each buying along and you having to install another link? On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com wrote: What do you do when you find out that a customer is using a wireless router to share Internet with neighbor and splitting the bill? I am sure there are quite a few doing this but when they out right tell you about it when on a tech call is rare. It is against our TOS. What do others do? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1834 / Virus Database: 2092/4586 - Release Date: 10/31/11 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet
Tell them that: a) They are responsible for everything that goes out over that router, if anything illegal occurs, it's their problem b) It'll slow them down to have that second person on their service. And then offer to just downgrade their service level and give their neighbor an account of their own. If they don't want to, we won't stop them, but we also won't work on their service while the second person is connected, since that is an unsupported configuration. It's always gone away eventually for us. Kevin - Original Message - From: Matt lm7...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 9:56 AM Subject: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet What do you do when you find out that a customer is using a wireless router to share Internet with neighbor and splitting the bill? I am sure there are quite a few doing this but when they out right tell you about it when on a tech call is rare. It is against our TOS. What do others do? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Neighbor Sharing Internet
It is more than just usage. Bandwidth is now less than 12% of my monthly operating expense. There is customer service, support infrastructure, tower leases, office lease, billing expense, taxes, regulatory expense, insurance. Even if they are under average on usage, don't call tech support and pay their bill on time, it is still costing you money in potential lost revenue. If you acknowledge and allow this they will tell people and the practice will spread. The only way I would ever allow this would be if the customer paid by the bit, not tiered service, but literally by the bit otherwise they are taking money out of your pocket. On 10/31/11 12:23 PM, Dorn Hetzel wrote: If the combined usage of the two households is well above average, It makes sense to take some kind of action. But, if the combined usage of the two households is in the lower 50%, and as long as you never hear from the non-customer household, and there aren't any problems you have to fix because of the second household, maybe it doesn't make sense to alienate a paying customer. Yes, they are violating your TOS, but perhaps they didn't really READ them, just skipped to the bottom and signed, like most of us have done some time or another (especially with software). If there usage could be mistaken for a single household, are the costs to service them really higher? Would servicing the second household with a second distant link be better for everyone, or is the solution they have in place now reasonable? If the usage is higher, maybe offer them a rate that takes that into account but is still a better deal than each buying along and you having to install another link? On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Matt lm7...@gmail.com mailto:lm7...@gmail.com wrote: What do you do when you find out that a customer is using a wireless router to share Internet with neighbor and splitting the bill? I am sure there are quite a few doing this but when they out right tell you about it when on a tech call is rare. It is against our TOS. What do others do? WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org mailto:wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
