Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-22 Thread Ron Wallace 
The engineer I spoke w/ at MW Filter claims they achieve a very 'steep' skirt 
at 928 with the notch filter and, therefore, eliminate the paging interference 
and still allow the use of the 920-928 spectrum.
I think we would not know until its implemented in the field, on the tower, I 
am going to use 920-928, 60 miles north of a paging system located in Defiance, 
Ohio. I have not seen the problems Brian has at 915 MHz Center freq on a Canopy 
w/ PacWireless 9db Hpol Omni, atop a 300' tower.
If I try the MW Filter device I will report my experience to the more 
knowledgeable among us on the WISPA list. Such as Mssrs DeReggi & Unger. And, 
of course Mr. Rohrbacher.
Ron Wallace
Hahnron, Inc.
220 S. Jackson Dt.
Addison, MI 49220

Phone: (517)547-8410
Mobile: (517)605-4542
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

>-Original Message-
>From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 06:16 PM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900
>
>RFlinx's arguement was that a bandpass filter to allow the use of the top
>channel closest to 930, was pointless because the paging gear would kill it
>anyway.
>So they decided on a design that would sacrifice the top channel in favor of
>a filter that would not degrade the receive strength of the desired signal,
>and maximize the attenuation of the undesired interference. In theory, I
>have a lot of respect for their approach.
>
>However, I sure like the $164 price of the filter that you found. The
>question is whether the sacrificed anything in the design, or if they are
>jsut willing to sell it cheaper. For example, as 3 pole design is cheaper
>but less capable than a 4,5,8 pole design.
>
>
>Tom DeReggi
>RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "WISPA General List" 
>Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 4:15 PM
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900
>
>
>> Thank you, Brian. The price is certainly right on that filter.
>>
>>
>> Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
>>
>>> Sharing the info I am
>>>
>>> Hello, Brian
>>>
>>> Thank you for your interest in Microwave Filter Company.
>>>
>>> The filter that you inquired about is the:
>>>
>>> Notch Filter
>>>
>>> MFC P/N 15345
>>>
>>> $164.00 unit cost plus shipping
>>>
>>> Shipment 1 week after receipt of order
>>>
>>> Attached is the specification drawing of the filter that you requested.
>>> If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me direct.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Bob Haytko
>>>
>>> Customer Relations
>>>
>>> Microwave Filter Co., Inc.
>>>
>>> Tel: 315-438-4725 (direct)
>>>
>>> Fax: 315-463-1467
>>>
>>> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>
>>> Jack Unger wrote:
>>>
>>>> Brian,
>>>>
>>>> Bandpass filters come in different band "widths". Some are full-band
>>>> filters that pass 902-928 MHz and some are single-channel filters that
>>>> are narrower and pass only one channel. The bandwidth of the two
>>>> Ubiquity filters are a little narrow to use across the entire band but
>>>> if you are using 912 or 917 as center frequencies, they should work 
>>>> well. If you're using a lower center frequency, you'll need a filter
>>>> that has a bit wider bandwidth but which still attenuates the paging
>>>> frequencies a lot. The availability of good whole-band bandpass filters
>>>> seems to have deteriorated a bit in the last year. There are more
>>>> filters available but they seem to have poorer characteristics and
>>>> sometimes higher prices. I just looked at RFLinx and Hyperlinktech and I
>>>> am not happy with their current offerings. I did discover a notch filter
>>>> that is tuned to attenuate the paging frequencies while passing the 
>>>> 902-928 frequencies. I don't know the pricing but if it's priced
>>>> reasonably then it looks like your best bet. Here's the link:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.microwavefilter.com/2ghzRelocation.htm#ism
>>>>
>>>> It's the filter at the bottom of the page. If you call them to get a
>>>> spec sheet and to check pricing, please share that info.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> jack
>

Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-22 Thread Brian Rohrbacher 




Nice.  Well, I've got the one from ubiquity on the way, but I'll try
the MW one next time.

Brian

Ron Wallace wrote:

  Brian,
That device is designed to allow operation across the full 902-928 spectrum, with the notch specifically at 928 to knock-out the pagers.
>From my MW xmit days we used MW Filters almost exclusively, well known in the Common Carrier ind. & The guy that started the company went to Michigan, was building filters in his garage as a grad student in Ann Arbor. For whatever thats worth.
Ron

  
  
-Original Message-
From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 04:18 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

yes, but I'm still unclear about what center frequency I could use with 
it. Thw spec sheet didn't clear it up. I'll have to try to call them back.

Brian

Jack Unger wrote:


  Thank you, Brian. The price is certainly right on that filter.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

  
  
Sharing the info I am

Hello, Brian



Thank you for your interest in Microwave Filter Company.



The filter that you inquired about is the:



Notch Filter

MFC P/N 15345

$164.00 unit cost plus shipping

Shipment 1 week after receipt of order



Attached is the specification drawing of the filter that you 
requested. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me 
direct.



Regards,



Bob Haytko

Customer Relations

Microwave Filter Co., Inc.

Tel: 315-438-4725 (direct)

Fax: 315-463-1467

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 







Jack Unger wrote:



  Brian,

Bandpass filters come in different band "widths". Some are full-band 
filters that pass 902-928 MHz and some are single-channel filters 
that are narrower and pass only one channel. The bandwidth of the 
two Ubiquity filters are a little narrow to use across the entire 
band but if you are using 912 or 917 as center frequencies, they 
should work well. If you're using a lower center frequency, you'll 
need a filter that has a bit wider bandwidth but which still 
attenuates the paging frequencies a lot. The availability of good 
whole-band bandpass filters seems to have deteriorated a bit in the 
last year. There are more filters available but they seem to have 
poorer characteristics and sometimes higher prices. I just looked at 
RFLinx and Hyperlinktech and I am not happy with their current 
offerings. I did discover a notch filter that is tuned to attenuate 
the paging frequencies while passing the 902-928 frequencies. I 
don't know the pricing but if it's priced reasonably then it looks 
like your best bet. Here's the link:

http://www.microwavefilter.com/2ghzRelocation.htm#ism

It's the filter at the bottom of the page. If you call them to get a 
spec sheet and to check pricing, please share that info.

Thanks,
jack
  









No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/693 - Release Date: 
2/19/2007 5:01 PM



  

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Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-22 Thread Ron Wallace 
Brian,
That device is designed to allow operation across the full 902-928 spectrum, 
with the notch specifically at 928 to knock-out the pagers.
>From my MW xmit days we used MW Filters almost exclusively, well known in the 
>Common Carrier ind. & The guy that started the company went to Michigan, was 
>building filters in his garage as a grad student in Ann Arbor. For whatever 
>thats worth.
Ron

>-Original Message-
>From: Brian Rohrbacher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 04:18 PM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900
>
>yes, but I'm still unclear about what center frequency I could use with 
>it. Thw spec sheet didn't clear it up. I'll have to try to call them back.
>
>Brian
>
>Jack Unger wrote:
>> Thank you, Brian. The price is certainly right on that filter.
>>
>>
>> Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
>>
>>> Sharing the info I am
>>>
>>> Hello, Brian
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you for your interest in Microwave Filter Company.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The filter that you inquired about is the:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Notch Filter
>>>
>>> MFC P/N 15345
>>>
>>> $164.00 unit cost plus shipping
>>>
>>> Shipment 1 week after receipt of order
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Attached is the specification drawing of the filter that you
>>> requested. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me
>>> direct.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob Haytko
>>>
>>> Customer Relations
>>>
>>> Microwave Filter Co., Inc.
>>>
>>> Tel: 315-438-4725 (direct)
>>>
>>> Fax: 315-463-1467
>>>
>>> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jack Unger wrote:
>>>
>>>> Brian,
>>>>
>>>> Bandpass filters come in different band "widths". Some are full-band
>>>> filters that pass 902-928 MHz and some are single-channel filters
>>>> that are narrower and pass only one channel. The bandwidth of the
>>>> two Ubiquity filters are a little narrow to use across the entire
>>>> band but if you are using 912 or 917 as center frequencies, they
>>>> should work well. If you're using a lower center frequency, you'll
>>>> need a filter that has a bit wider bandwidth but which still
>>>> attenuates the paging frequencies a lot. The availability of good
>>>> whole-band bandpass filters seems to have deteriorated a bit in the 
>>>> last year. There are more filters available but they seem to have
>>>> poorer characteristics and sometimes higher prices. I just looked at
>>>> RFLinx and Hyperlinktech and I am not happy with their current
>>>> offerings. I did discover a notch filter that is tuned to attenuate 
>>>> the paging frequencies while passing the 902-928 frequencies. I
>>>> don't know the pricing but if it's priced reasonably then it looks
>>>> like your best bet. Here's the link:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.microwavefilter.com/2ghzRelocation.htm#ism
>>>>
>>>> It's the filter at the bottom of the page. If you call them to get a
>>>> spec sheet and to check pricing, please share that info.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> jack
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/693 - Release Date:
>>> 2/19/2007 5:01 PM
>>>
>>>
>>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-22 Thread Ron Wallace 
And the MW Filter notch for 928-930 is only $156 + shipping.

>-Original Message-
>From: Jack Unger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 01:50 PM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900
>
>Brian,
>
>Bandpass filters come in different band "widths". Some are full-band 
>filters that pass 902-928 MHz and some are single-channel filters that 
>are narrower and pass only one channel. The bandwidth of the two 
>Ubiquity filters are a little narrow to use across the entire band but 
>if you are using 912 or 917 as center frequencies, they should work 
>well. If you're using a lower center frequency, you'll need a filter 
>that has a bit wider bandwidth but which still attenuates the paging 
>frequencies a lot. The availability of good whole-band bandpass filters 
>seems to have deteriorated a bit in the last year. There are more 
>filters available but they seem to have poorer characteristics and 
>sometimes higher prices. I just looked at RFLinx and Hyperlinktech and I 
>am not happy with their current offerings. I did discover a notch filter 
>that is tuned to attenuate the paging frequencies while passing the 
>902-928 frequencies. I don't know the pricing but if it's priced 
>reasonably then it looks like your best bet. Here's the link:
>
>http://www.microwavefilter.com/2ghzRelocation.htm#ism
>
>It's the filter at the bottom of the page. If you call them to get a 
>spec sheet and to check pricing, please share that info.
>
>Thanks,
> jack
>
>
>Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Jack. Would installing this one http://www.ubnt.com/cf.php4 
>> be the correct move? Or is something else preferred.
>> 
>> Brian
>> 
>> Jack Unger wrote:
>> 
>>> Brian,
>>>
>>> A -36 dBm signal probably won't destroy your receiver or permanently 
>>> desensitize it however your best bet is to get confirmation from a 
>>> Motorola rep. The signals you see at 928-930 MHz are from one or more 
>>> paging transmitters. These paging signals could easily desensitize 
>>> your AP receivers temporarily and cause a temporary inability to hear 
>>> incoming SM signals.
>>>
>>> Since you appear to be using antennas that are external to your APs, 
>>> you can insert a bandpass filter between each AP and its antenna. This 
>>> will attenuate the paging signals and allow the APs to receive SM's 
>>> from further away. If the paging transmitters ARE the cause of your 
>>> apparent AP receiver sensitivity deterioration, then the bandpass 
>>> filters should be helpful in reducing the frequency of occurance of 
>>> the problem.
>>>
>>> jack
>>>
>>>
>>> Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
>>>
>>>> How would that help? One sector is still pointing at the 
>>>> interference...Wouldn't that sector still make the radio fail, if 
>>>> the -36 signal is what is doing it?
>>>> My question from the original post. Will that strong signal 
>>>> desensitize the radio into failure? If not, then I need to figure 
>>>> out what kills my radios. Why do they work fine for a month and then 
>>>> die? I replace just the radio and they are fine for a while.
>>>>
>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If you are that close to a source of interference you need to ditch 
>>>>> the omnis and sectorize our tower.
>>>>>
>>>>> laters,
>>>>> Marlon
>>>>> (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales
>>>>> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage) Consulting services
>>>>> 42846865 (icq) And I run my own 
>>>>> wisp!
>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
>>>>> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> - Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" 
>>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>> To: "Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization" 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 7:05 AM
>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I keep losing canopy 900 APs. I used the spectrum analyzer 
>>>>>> yesterday and saw -36 signal on channels 928, 929, and 930. Will 
>>>>>> that strong signal

Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-20 Thread Dave Brenton 
Jack and Brian,

I noticed this thread just a few minutes ago.
I didn't see mention of what polarity the
OMNI in question is.

Most, if not all, 900 paging is VERTically Polarized.
That is why the integrated antenna Canopy products
all use HORIZontal polarization out of the box.

So one would naturally want your omni to be HORIZontally
polarized.

This little trick all by itself should get 25 db or so rejection
of the unwanted 929-930 stuff.

I also agree with Marlon that sectorizing could help
(depending on the direction of the offending signal)

Basically selecting an AP operating frequency as far
away from 929-930 as possible (preferably 906 Mhz)
and facing THAT sector toward the offending signal,
should help since the AP's receiver selectivity will
maximally attenuate the out of band signal.
The Subscriber Modules in that sector would
all "have their backs to" the offending noise,
so the front-to-back ratio of the antenna is
buying them 20+ db rejection.

Of course if the Subscriber Modules in another sector
(and another channel) are facing the noise,
the problem may pop-up there.

It's all about angles and SM antenna pattern at that point.

Maybe this will help.
Hope so.

Dave Brenton

General Manager
Rural Tennessee Wireless Broadband
Bringing FAST Internet to the rest of us (sm)
Dover TN
(931) 232-0914 office
(931) 627-1142 cell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message - 
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 21:30
Subject: Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900


> Remember that the tighter the filter the more loss you'll have going
through
> it too
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 10:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900
>
>
> > Brian,
> >
> > Bandpass filters come in different band "widths". Some are full-band
> > filters that pass 902-928 MHz and some are single-channel filters that
are
> > narrower and pass only one channel. The bandwidth of the two Ubiquity
> > filters are a little narrow to use across the entire band but if you are
> > using 912 or 917 as center frequencies, they should work well. If you're
> > using a lower center frequency, you'll need a filter that has a bit
wider
> > bandwidth but which still attenuates the paging frequencies a lot. The
> > availability of good whole-band bandpass filters seems to have
> > deteriorated a bit in the last year. There are more filters available
but
> > they seem to have poorer characteristics and sometimes higher prices. I
> > just looked at RFLinx and Hyperlinktech and I am not happy with their
> > current offerings. I did discover a notch filter that is tuned to
> > attenuate the paging frequencies while passing the 902-928 frequencies.
I
> > don't know the pricing but if it's priced reasonably then it looks like
> > your best bet. Here's the link:
> >
> > http://www.microwavefilter.com/2ghzRelocation.htm#ism
> >
> > It's the filter at the bottom of the page. If you call them to get a
spec
> > sheet and to check pricing, please share that info.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >  jack
> >
> >
> > Brian Rohrbacher wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks, Jack.  Would installing this one  http://www.ubnt.com/cf.php4
be
> >> the correct move?  Or is something else preferred.
> >>
> >> Brian
> >>
> >> Jack Unger wrote:
> >>
> >>> Brian,
> >>>
> >>> A -36 dBm signal probably won't destroy your receiver or permanently
> >>> desensitize it however your best bet is to get confirmation from a
> >>> Motorola rep. The signals you see at 928-930 MHz are from one or more
> >>> paging transmitters. These paging signals could easily desensitize
your
> >>> AP receivers temporarily and cause a temporary inability to hear
> >>> incoming SM signals.
> >>>
> >>> Since you appear to be using antennas that are external to your APs,
you
> >>> can insert a bandpass filter between each AP and its antenna. This
will
> >>> attenuate the paging signals and allow the APs to receive SM's from
> >>> further away. If the paging transmitters ARE the cause of your
apparent
> >>> AP receiver sensitivity deterioration, then the bandpass filters
should
> >>> be helpful in reducing the frequency of occurance of the problem.
> >>>
> >>> jack
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-20 Thread Marlon K. Schafer 
Remember that the tighter the filter the more loss you'll have going through 
it too

marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900



Brian,

Bandpass filters come in different band "widths". Some are full-band 
filters that pass 902-928 MHz and some are single-channel filters that are 
narrower and pass only one channel. The bandwidth of the two Ubiquity 
filters are a little narrow to use across the entire band but if you are 
using 912 or 917 as center frequencies, they should work well. If you're 
using a lower center frequency, you'll need a filter that has a bit wider 
bandwidth but which still attenuates the paging frequencies a lot. The 
availability of good whole-band bandpass filters seems to have 
deteriorated a bit in the last year. There are more filters available but 
they seem to have poorer characteristics and sometimes higher prices. I 
just looked at RFLinx and Hyperlinktech and I am not happy with their 
current offerings. I did discover a notch filter that is tuned to 
attenuate the paging frequencies while passing the 902-928 frequencies. I 
don't know the pricing but if it's priced reasonably then it looks like 
your best bet. Here's the link:


http://www.microwavefilter.com/2ghzRelocation.htm#ism

It's the filter at the bottom of the page. If you call them to get a spec 
sheet and to check pricing, please share that info.


Thanks,
 jack


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Thanks, Jack.  Would installing this one  http://www.ubnt.com/cf.php4  be 
the correct move?  Or is something else preferred.


Brian

Jack Unger wrote:


Brian,

A -36 dBm signal probably won't destroy your receiver or permanently 
desensitize it however your best bet is to get confirmation from a 
Motorola rep. The signals you see at 928-930 MHz are from one or more 
paging transmitters. These paging signals could easily desensitize your 
AP receivers temporarily and cause a temporary inability to hear 
incoming SM signals.


Since you appear to be using antennas that are external to your APs, you 
can insert a bandpass filter between each AP and its antenna. This will 
attenuate the paging signals and allow the APs to receive SM's from 
further away. If the paging transmitters ARE the cause of your apparent 
AP receiver sensitivity deterioration, then the bandpass filters should 
be helpful in reducing the frequency of occurance of the problem.


jack


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

How would that help?  One sector is still pointing at the 
interference...Wouldn't that sector still make the radio fail, if 
the -36 signal is what is doing it?
My question from the original post.  Will that strong signal 
desensitize the radio into failure?  If not, then I need to figure out 
what kills my radios.  Why do they work fine for a month and then die? 
I replace just the radio and they are fine for a while.


Brian


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

If you are that close to a source of interference you need to ditch 
the omnis and sectorize our tower.


laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own 
wisp!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization" 


Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 7:05 AM
Subject: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900


I keep losing canopy 900 APs.  I used the spectrum analyzer yesterday 
and saw -36 signal on channels 928, 929, and 930.  Will that strong 
signal desensitize the radio into failure?  because for some reason 
SMs that used to be -65 are -80 (on both sides of the like) and 17 
out of 33 associations have dropped off the AP.  I've been fighting 
this for a year.  I've installed my own grounding, a lighting 
dissipater, 6 new APs, 2 new omnis, and 3 new cables.  I think I have 
ruled out anything that could be killing this AP except if something 
RF is killing it.  Any input will help.


Brian
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Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-20 Thread Marlon K. Schafer 

You put THAT radio on a channel as far away from the noise as you can.

Also, you may want to put in a REALLY good notch filter.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900


How would that help?  One sector is still pointing at the 
interference...Wouldn't that sector still make the radio fail, if 
the -36 signal is what is doing it?
My question from the original post.  Will that strong signal desensitize 
the radio into failure?  If not, then I need to figure out what kills my 
radios.  Why do they work fine for a month and then die?  I replace just 
the radio and they are fine for a while.


Brian


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
If you are that close to a source of interference you need to ditch 
the omnis and sectorize our tower.


laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization" 


Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 7:05 AM
Subject: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900


I keep losing canopy 900 APs.  I used the spectrum analyzer yesterday 
and saw -36 signal on channels 928, 929, and 930.  Will that strong 
signal desensitize the radio into failure?  because for some reason 
SMs that used to be -65 are -80 (on both sides of the like) and 17 
out of 33 associations have dropped off the AP.  I've been fighting 
this for a year.  I've installed my own grounding, a lighting 
dissipater, 6 new APs, 2 new omnis, and 3 new cables.  I think I have 
ruled out anything that could be killing this AP except if something 
RF is killing it.  Any input will help.


Brian
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Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-20 Thread Jack Unger 

Tom - Please see my answers inline.

Tom DeReggi wrote:


Jack,

Is there a technical difference between a notch filter and a bandpass 
filter?


Yes. A bandpass filter is designed to pass (with only a dB or two of 
attenuation) a "band" of frequencies - hence the name "bandpass". 
Everything outside the bandpass frequency range is significantly 
attenuated. A notch filter is designed to notch out (attenuate) a rather 
narrow frequency range that contains a loud, interfering signal (like 
paging).


Is it possible the 930 notch only attenuates 930, and does not help with 
the other potential harmful interferers such as the upper 800s, and the 
higher than 930 stuff?


Yes, exactly correct. A 930 MHz notch filter only notches out the 930 
MHz frequency range and not the upper 800 MHz frequency range where the 
cellular band stops (at 885 MHz). Frequencies way above 930 are also not 
notched out. This is OK for most WISPs because the interference closest 
to the 902-928 MHz band is paging at 929 and 930 MHz.


I'm jsut trying to get an idea of whether a WISP really needs an 
assortment of filters in their tool chest to try what helps best, in 
absense of a spectrum analizer.


A spectrum analyzer and the knowledge about how to use it is the best 
interference reduction tool. The next best tool is a good pair of eyes 
hooked up to a brain that can recognize paging and cell sites (which are 
often co-located together). When a WISP knows what these sites look 
like, the WISP  can drive around within a half-mile or so of their 
prospective AP location and use their eyes to spot potential paging and 
cell sites that would cause overload problems.




It also may matter depending on what unlicensed radio type.


Yes, some radio receivers are better than others in terms of receiver 
selectivity. More filtering in the receiver makes a receiver that is 
less likely to be overloaded by nearby paging and cell sites therefore 
less likely to need an external filter. More filtering also makes the 
receiver more expensive. The manufacturer of a PCMCIA card that costs 
maybe $20 to make can not afford to spend $75 to include a good receiver 
filter; also there may not be enough room on the card for the filter 
components.



For example the Ubiquiti 900 card has excellent filtering built in, for 
the noise a bit farther away, but not good for the close in adjacent noise.
Maybe the inexpensive 930 notch filter is ideal for use with the 
Ubiquiti 900 card?


Yes. Most low-cost receivers would benefit significantly when used with 
an external (correctly selected and designed) bandpass or notch filter. 
The best use of the notch filter is when there is nearby paging but not 
nearby cellular.




Up on a tower, the noise may not just be the close in paging.


Up on the tower, the poor receiver gets hit with everything - in-band 
noise from other network sites and out of band noise from paging and 
cellular and other nearby transmitters. For best results, a WISP needs 
the spectrum analyzer to know what's really out there before choosing an 
AP site. Once a site is chosen, it's necessary to "design around" the 
noise through proper antenna system selection. While a selection of 
filters would help, a better method is to understand the sources of 
noise, know how to detect and measure it, then know how to "design 
around" it. These are the techniques that I've been writing about and 
teaching about since 2001 and practicing since 1993. With practice, 
anyone can get good at reducing noise, thereby maximizing WISP 
performance and reliability.


jack




Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900


Because it's a "notch", it attenuates the paging frequencies while 
letting the 902-928 band go through with little to no attenuation. You 
could use it on any frequency within 902-928.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

yes, but I'm still unclear about what center frequency I could use 
with it.  Thw spec sheet didn't clear it up.  I'll have to try to 
call them back.


Brian

Jack Unger wrote:


Thank you, Brian. The price is certainly right on that filter.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


Sharing the info I am

Hello, Brian


Thank you for your interest in Microwave Filter Company.


The filter that you inquired about is the:


Notch Filter

MFC P/N 15345

$164.00 unit cost plus shipping

Shipment 1 week after receipt of order


Attached is the specification drawing of the filter that you 
requested. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me 
direct.



Regards,


Bob Haytko

Customer Relations

Microwave Filter Co., Inc.

Tel:  315-438-4725 (direct)

Fax:  315-463-1467

Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-20 Thread Tom DeReggi 

Jack,

Is there a technical difference between a notch filter and a bandpass 
filter?
Is it possible the 930 notch only attenuates 930, and does not help with the 
other potential harmful interferers such as the upper 800s, and the higher 
than 930 stuff?
I'm jsut trying to get an idea of whether a WISP really needs an assortment 
of filters in their tool chest to try what helps best, in absense of a 
spectrum analizer.

It also may matter depending on what unlicensed radio type.

For example the Ubiquiti 900 card has excellent filtering built in, for the 
noise a bit farther away, but not good for the close in adjacent noise.
Maybe the inexpensive 930 notch filter is ideal for use with the Ubiquiti 
900 card?


Up on a tower, the noise may not just be the close in paging.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900


Because it's a "notch", it attenuates the paging frequencies while letting 
the 902-928 band go through with little to no attenuation. You could use 
it on any frequency within 902-928.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

yes, but I'm still unclear about what center frequency I could use with 
it.  Thw spec sheet didn't clear it up.  I'll have to try to call them 
back.


Brian

Jack Unger wrote:


Thank you, Brian. The price is certainly right on that filter.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


Sharing the info I am

Hello, Brian


Thank you for your interest in Microwave Filter Company.


The filter that you inquired about is the:


Notch Filter

MFC P/N 15345

$164.00 unit cost plus shipping

Shipment 1 week after receipt of order


Attached is the specification drawing of the filter that you requested. 
If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me direct.



Regards,


Bob Haytko

Customer Relations

Microwave Filter Co., Inc.

Tel:  315-438-4725 (direct)

Fax:  315-463-1467

Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>






Jack Unger wrote:


Brian,

Bandpass filters come in different band "widths". Some are full-band 
filters that pass 902-928 MHz and some are single-channel filters that 
are narrower and pass only one channel. The bandwidth of the two 
Ubiquity filters are a little narrow to use across the entire band but 
if you are using 912 or 917 as center frequencies, they should work 
well. If you're using a lower center frequency, you'll need a filter 
that has a bit wider bandwidth but which still attenuates the paging 
frequencies a lot. The availability of good whole-band bandpass 
filters seems to have deteriorated a bit in the last year. There are 
more filters available but they seem to have poorer characteristics 
and sometimes higher prices. I just looked at RFLinx and Hyperlinktech 
and I am not happy with their current offerings. I did discover a 
notch filter that is tuned to attenuate the paging frequencies while 
passing the 902-928 frequencies. I don't know the pricing but if it's 
priced reasonably then it looks like your best bet. Here's the link:


http://www.microwavefilter.com/2ghzRelocation.htm#ism

It's the filter at the bottom of the page. If you call them to get a 
spec sheet and to check pricing, please share that info.


Thanks,
 jack









No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/693 - Release Date: 
2/19/2007 5:01 PM







--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
Newsletters Downloadable from http://ask-wi.com/newsletters.html
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com



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Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-20 Thread Tom DeReggi 
RFlinx's arguement was that a bandpass filter to allow the use of  the top 
channel closest to 930, was pointless because the paging gear would kill it 
anyway.
So they decided on a design that would sacrifice the top channel in favor of 
a filter that would not degrade the receive strength of the desired signal, 
and maximize the attenuation of the undesired interference.  In theory, I 
have a lot of respect for their approach.


However, I sure like the $164 price of the filter that you found. The 
question is whether the sacrificed anything in the design, or if they are 
jsut willing to sell it cheaper. For example, as 3 pole design is cheaper 
but less capable than a 4,5,8 pole design.



Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900



Thank you, Brian. The price is certainly right on that filter.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


Sharing the info I am

Hello, Brian

 Thank you for your interest in Microwave Filter Company.

 The filter that you inquired about is the:

 Notch Filter

MFC P/N 15345

$164.00 unit cost plus shipping

Shipment 1 week after receipt of order

 Attached is the specification drawing of the filter that you requested. 
If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me direct.


 Regards,

 Bob Haytko

Customer Relations

Microwave Filter Co., Inc.

Tel:  315-438-4725 (direct)

Fax:  315-463-1467

Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

 Jack Unger wrote:


Brian,

Bandpass filters come in different band "widths". Some are full-band 
filters that pass 902-928 MHz and some are single-channel filters that 
are narrower and pass only one channel. The bandwidth of the two 
Ubiquity filters are a little narrow to use across the entire band but 
if you are using 912 or 917 as center frequencies, they should work 
well. If you're using a lower center frequency, you'll need a filter 
that has a bit wider bandwidth but which still attenuates the paging 
frequencies a lot. The availability of good whole-band bandpass filters 
seems to have deteriorated a bit in the last year. There are more 
filters available but they seem to have poorer characteristics and 
sometimes higher prices. I just looked at RFLinx and Hyperlinktech and I 
am not happy with their current offerings. I did discover a notch filter 
that is tuned to attenuate the paging frequencies while passing the 
902-928 frequencies. I don't know the pricing but if it's priced 
reasonably then it looks like your best bet. Here's the link:


http://www.microwavefilter.com/2ghzRelocation.htm#ism

It's the filter at the bottom of the page. If you call them to get a 
spec sheet and to check pricing, please share that info.


Thanks,
 jack



 

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/693 - Release Date: 2/19/2007 
5:01 PM





--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
Newsletters Downloadable from http://ask-wi.com/newsletters.html
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com



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Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-20 Thread Jack Unger 
Because it's a "notch", it attenuates the paging frequencies while 
letting the 902-928 band go through with little to no attenuation. You 
could use it on any frequency within 902-928.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

yes, but I'm still unclear about what center frequency I could use with 
it.  Thw spec sheet didn't clear it up.  I'll have to try to call them 
back.


Brian

Jack Unger wrote:


Thank you, Brian. The price is certainly right on that filter.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


Sharing the info I am

Hello, Brian

 


Thank you for your interest in Microwave Filter Company.

 


The filter that you inquired about is the:

 


Notch Filter

MFC P/N 15345

$164.00 unit cost plus shipping

Shipment 1 week after receipt of order

 

Attached is the specification drawing of the filter that you 
requested.  If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me 
direct.


 


Regards,

 


Bob Haytko

Customer Relations

Microwave Filter Co., Inc.

Tel:  315-438-4725 (direct)

Fax:  315-463-1467

Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 






Jack Unger wrote:


Brian,

Bandpass filters come in different band "widths". Some are full-band 
filters that pass 902-928 MHz and some are single-channel filters 
that are narrower and pass only one channel. The bandwidth of the 
two Ubiquity filters are a little narrow to use across the entire 
band but if you are using 912 or 917 as center frequencies, they 
should work well. If you're using a lower center frequency, you'll 
need a filter that has a bit wider bandwidth but which still 
attenuates the paging frequencies a lot. The availability of good 
whole-band bandpass filters seems to have deteriorated a bit in the 
last year. There are more filters available but they seem to have 
poorer characteristics and sometimes higher prices. I just looked at 
RFLinx and Hyperlinktech and I am not happy with their current 
offerings. I did discover a notch filter that is tuned to attenuate 
the paging frequencies while passing the 902-928 frequencies. I 
don't know the pricing but if it's priced reasonably then it looks 
like your best bet. Here's the link:


http://www.microwavefilter.com/2ghzRelocation.htm#ism

It's the filter at the bottom of the page. If you call them to get a 
spec sheet and to check pricing, please share that info.


Thanks,
 jack




 

 





No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/693 - Release Date: 
2/19/2007 5:01 PM







--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
Newsletters Downloadable from http://ask-wi.com/newsletters.html
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com



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Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-20 Thread Brian Rohrbacher 
yes, but I'm still unclear about what center frequency I could use with 
it.  Thw spec sheet didn't clear it up.  I'll have to try to call them back.


Brian

Jack Unger wrote:

Thank you, Brian. The price is certainly right on that filter.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


Sharing the info I am

Hello, Brian

 


Thank you for your interest in Microwave Filter Company.

 


The filter that you inquired about is the:

 


Notch Filter

MFC P/N 15345

$164.00 unit cost plus shipping

Shipment 1 week after receipt of order

 

Attached is the specification drawing of the filter that you 
requested.  If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me 
direct.


 


Regards,

 


Bob Haytko

Customer Relations

Microwave Filter Co., Inc.

Tel:  315-438-4725 (direct)

Fax:  315-463-1467

Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 






Jack Unger wrote:


Brian,

Bandpass filters come in different band "widths". Some are full-band 
filters that pass 902-928 MHz and some are single-channel filters 
that are narrower and pass only one channel. The bandwidth of the 
two Ubiquity filters are a little narrow to use across the entire 
band but if you are using 912 or 917 as center frequencies, they 
should work well. If you're using a lower center frequency, you'll 
need a filter that has a bit wider bandwidth but which still 
attenuates the paging frequencies a lot. The availability of good 
whole-band bandpass filters seems to have deteriorated a bit in the 
last year. There are more filters available but they seem to have 
poorer characteristics and sometimes higher prices. I just looked at 
RFLinx and Hyperlinktech and I am not happy with their current 
offerings. I did discover a notch filter that is tuned to attenuate 
the paging frequencies while passing the 902-928 frequencies. I 
don't know the pricing but if it's priced reasonably then it looks 
like your best bet. Here's the link:


http://www.microwavefilter.com/2ghzRelocation.htm#ism

It's the filter at the bottom of the page. If you call them to get a 
spec sheet and to check pricing, please share that info.


Thanks,
 jack



 

 





No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/693 - Release Date: 
2/19/2007 5:01 PM






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Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-20 Thread Jack Unger 

Thank you, Brian. The price is certainly right on that filter.


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:


Sharing the info I am

Hello, Brian

 


Thank you for your interest in Microwave Filter Company.

 


The filter that you inquired about is the:

 


Notch Filter

MFC P/N 15345

$164.00 unit cost plus shipping

Shipment 1 week after receipt of order

 

Attached is the specification drawing of the filter that you requested.  
If you have any questions or concerns, please contact me direct.


 


Regards,

 


Bob Haytko

Customer Relations

Microwave Filter Co., Inc.

Tel:  315-438-4725 (direct)

Fax:  315-463-1467

Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 






Jack Unger wrote:


Brian,

Bandpass filters come in different band "widths". Some are full-band 
filters that pass 902-928 MHz and some are single-channel filters that 
are narrower and pass only one channel. The bandwidth of the two 
Ubiquity filters are a little narrow to use across the entire band but 
if you are using 912 or 917 as center frequencies, they should work 
well. If you're using a lower center frequency, you'll need a filter 
that has a bit wider bandwidth but which still attenuates the paging 
frequencies a lot. The availability of good whole-band bandpass 
filters seems to have deteriorated a bit in the last year. There are 
more filters available but they seem to have poorer characteristics 
and sometimes higher prices. I just looked at RFLinx and Hyperlinktech 
and I am not happy with their current offerings. I did discover a 
notch filter that is tuned to attenuate the paging frequencies while 
passing the 902-928 frequencies. I don't know the pricing but if it's 
priced reasonably then it looks like your best bet. Here's the link:


http://www.microwavefilter.com/2ghzRelocation.htm#ism

It's the filter at the bottom of the page. If you call them to get a 
spec sheet and to check pricing, please share that info.


Thanks,
 jack



 

 





No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/693 - Release Date: 2/19/2007 5:01 
PM




--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
Newsletters Downloadable from http://ask-wi.com/newsletters.html
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com



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Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-20 Thread Brian Rohrbacher 
Yup, I ordered the 912.  With the 917, the interference on 928 would 
have still bothered me.


Brian

Jack Unger wrote:
Ubit has two - one centered on 912 and one centered on 917. Be sure to 
order the appropriate one.



Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

I just called for the info, but I need something now and might order 
the ubnt one if I get someone to ship it today.  So, as long as my 
center is 912-917 I'd be fine with the ubnt one?  I think that will do.


Brian

Jack Unger wrote:


Brian,

Bandpass filters come in different band "widths". Some are full-band 
filters that pass 902-928 MHz and some are single-channel filters 
that are narrower and pass only one channel. The bandwidth of the 
two Ubiquity filters are a little narrow to use across the entire 
band but if you are using 912 or 917 as center frequencies, they 
should work well. If you're using a lower center frequency, you'll 
need a filter that has a bit wider bandwidth but which still 
attenuates the paging frequencies a lot. The availability of good 
whole-band bandpass filters seems to have deteriorated a bit in the 
last year. There are more filters available but they seem to have 
poorer characteristics and sometimes higher prices. I just looked at 
RFLinx and Hyperlinktech and I am not happy with their current 
offerings. I did discover a notch filter that is tuned to attenuate 
the paging frequencies while passing the 902-928 frequencies. I 
don't know the pricing but if it's priced reasonably then it looks 
like your best bet. Here's the link:


http://www.microwavefilter.com/2ghzRelocation.htm#ism

It's the filter at the bottom of the page. If you call them to get a 
spec sheet and to check pricing, please share that info.


Thanks,
 jack


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Thanks, Jack.  Would installing this one  
http://www.ubnt.com/cf.php4  be the correct move?  Or is something 
else preferred.


Brian

Jack Unger wrote:


Brian,

A -36 dBm signal probably won't destroy your receiver or 
permanently desensitize it however your best bet is to get 
confirmation from a Motorola rep. The signals you see at 928-930 
MHz are from one or more paging transmitters. These paging signals 
could easily desensitize your AP receivers temporarily and cause a 
temporary inability to hear incoming SM signals.


Since you appear to be using antennas that are external to your 
APs, you can insert a bandpass filter between each AP and its 
antenna. This will attenuate the paging signals and allow the APs 
to receive SM's from further away. If the paging transmitters ARE 
the cause of your apparent AP receiver sensitivity deterioration, 
then the bandpass filters should be helpful in reducing the 
frequency of occurance of the problem.


jack


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

How would that help?  One sector is still pointing at the 
interference...Wouldn't that sector still make the radio 
fail, if the -36 signal is what is doing it?
My question from the original post.  Will that strong signal 
desensitize the radio into failure?  If not, then I need to 
figure out what kills my radios.  Why do they work fine for a 
month and then die?  I replace just the radio and they are fine 
for a while.


Brian


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

If you are that close to a source of interference you need to 
ditch the omnis and sectorize our tower.


laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my 
own wisp!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization" 


Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 7:05 AM
Subject: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900


I keep losing canopy 900 APs.  I used the spectrum analyzer 
yesterday and saw -36 signal on channels 928, 929, and 930.  
Will that strong signal desensitize the radio into failure?  
because for some reason SMs that used to be -65 are -80 (on 
both sides of the like) and 17 out of 33 associations have 
dropped off the AP.  I've been fighting this for a year.  I've 
installed my own grounding, a lighting dissipater, 6 new APs, 2 
new omnis, and 3 new cables.  I think I have ruled out anything 
that could be killing this AP except if something RF is killing 
it.  Any input will help.


Brian
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Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-20 Thread Jack Unger 
Ubit has two - one centered on 912 and one centered on 917. Be sure to 
order the appropriate one.



Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

I just called for the info, but I need something now and might order the 
ubnt one if I get someone to ship it today.  So, as long as my center is 
912-917 I'd be fine with the ubnt one?  I think that will do.


Brian

Jack Unger wrote:


Brian,

Bandpass filters come in different band "widths". Some are full-band 
filters that pass 902-928 MHz and some are single-channel filters that 
are narrower and pass only one channel. The bandwidth of the two 
Ubiquity filters are a little narrow to use across the entire band but 
if you are using 912 or 917 as center frequencies, they should work 
well. If you're using a lower center frequency, you'll need a filter 
that has a bit wider bandwidth but which still attenuates the paging 
frequencies a lot. The availability of good whole-band bandpass 
filters seems to have deteriorated a bit in the last year. There are 
more filters available but they seem to have poorer characteristics 
and sometimes higher prices. I just looked at RFLinx and Hyperlinktech 
and I am not happy with their current offerings. I did discover a 
notch filter that is tuned to attenuate the paging frequencies while 
passing the 902-928 frequencies. I don't know the pricing but if it's 
priced reasonably then it looks like your best bet. Here's the link:


http://www.microwavefilter.com/2ghzRelocation.htm#ism

It's the filter at the bottom of the page. If you call them to get a 
spec sheet and to check pricing, please share that info.


Thanks,
 jack


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Thanks, Jack.  Would installing this one  
http://www.ubnt.com/cf.php4  be the correct move?  Or is something 
else preferred.


Brian

Jack Unger wrote:


Brian,

A -36 dBm signal probably won't destroy your receiver or permanently 
desensitize it however your best bet is to get confirmation from a 
Motorola rep. The signals you see at 928-930 MHz are from one or 
more paging transmitters. These paging signals could easily 
desensitize your AP receivers temporarily and cause a temporary 
inability to hear incoming SM signals.


Since you appear to be using antennas that are external to your APs, 
you can insert a bandpass filter between each AP and its antenna. 
This will attenuate the paging signals and allow the APs to receive 
SM's from further away. If the paging transmitters ARE the cause of 
your apparent AP receiver sensitivity deterioration, then the 
bandpass filters should be helpful in reducing the frequency of 
occurance of the problem.


jack


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

How would that help?  One sector is still pointing at the 
interference...Wouldn't that sector still make the radio fail, 
if the -36 signal is what is doing it?
My question from the original post.  Will that strong signal 
desensitize the radio into failure?  If not, then I need to figure 
out what kills my radios.  Why do they work fine for a month and 
then die?  I replace just the radio and they are fine for a while.


Brian


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

If you are that close to a source of interference you need to 
ditch the omnis and sectorize our tower.


laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own 
wisp!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization" 


Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 7:05 AM
Subject: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900


I keep losing canopy 900 APs.  I used the spectrum analyzer 
yesterday and saw -36 signal on channels 928, 929, and 930.  Will 
that strong signal desensitize the radio into failure?  because 
for some reason SMs that used to be -65 are -80 (on both sides of 
the like) and 17 out of 33 associations have dropped off the AP.  
I've been fighting this for a year.  I've installed my own 
grounding, a lighting dissipater, 6 new APs, 2 new omnis, and 3 
new cables.  I think I have ruled out anything that could be 
killing this AP except if something RF is killing it.  Any input 
will help.


Brian
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Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
Newsletters Downloadable from http://ask-wi.com/newsletters.html
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  w

Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-20 Thread Brian Rohrbacher 
I just called for the info, but I need something now and might order the 
ubnt one if I get someone to ship it today.  So, as long as my center is 
912-917 I'd be fine with the ubnt one?  I think that will do.


Brian

Jack Unger wrote:

Brian,

Bandpass filters come in different band "widths". Some are full-band 
filters that pass 902-928 MHz and some are single-channel filters that 
are narrower and pass only one channel. The bandwidth of the two 
Ubiquity filters are a little narrow to use across the entire band but 
if you are using 912 or 917 as center frequencies, they should work 
well. If you're using a lower center frequency, you'll need a filter 
that has a bit wider bandwidth but which still attenuates the paging 
frequencies a lot. The availability of good whole-band bandpass 
filters seems to have deteriorated a bit in the last year. There are 
more filters available but they seem to have poorer characteristics 
and sometimes higher prices. I just looked at RFLinx and Hyperlinktech 
and I am not happy with their current offerings. I did discover a 
notch filter that is tuned to attenuate the paging frequencies while 
passing the 902-928 frequencies. I don't know the pricing but if it's 
priced reasonably then it looks like your best bet. Here's the link:


http://www.microwavefilter.com/2ghzRelocation.htm#ism

It's the filter at the bottom of the page. If you call them to get a 
spec sheet and to check pricing, please share that info.


Thanks,
 jack


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Thanks, Jack.  Would installing this one  
http://www.ubnt.com/cf.php4  be the correct move?  Or is something 
else preferred.


Brian

Jack Unger wrote:


Brian,

A -36 dBm signal probably won't destroy your receiver or permanently 
desensitize it however your best bet is to get confirmation from a 
Motorola rep. The signals you see at 928-930 MHz are from one or 
more paging transmitters. These paging signals could easily 
desensitize your AP receivers temporarily and cause a temporary 
inability to hear incoming SM signals.


Since you appear to be using antennas that are external to your APs, 
you can insert a bandpass filter between each AP and its antenna. 
This will attenuate the paging signals and allow the APs to receive 
SM's from further away. If the paging transmitters ARE the cause of 
your apparent AP receiver sensitivity deterioration, then the 
bandpass filters should be helpful in reducing the frequency of 
occurance of the problem.


jack


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

How would that help?  One sector is still pointing at the 
interference...Wouldn't that sector still make the radio fail, 
if the -36 signal is what is doing it?
My question from the original post.  Will that strong signal 
desensitize the radio into failure?  If not, then I need to figure 
out what kills my radios.  Why do they work fine for a month and 
then die?  I replace just the radio and they are fine for a while.


Brian


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

If you are that close to a source of interference you need to 
ditch the omnis and sectorize our tower.


laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own 
wisp!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization" 


Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 7:05 AM
Subject: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900


I keep losing canopy 900 APs.  I used the spectrum analyzer 
yesterday and saw -36 signal on channels 928, 929, and 930.  Will 
that strong signal desensitize the radio into failure?  because 
for some reason SMs that used to be -65 are -80 (on both sides of 
the like) and 17 out of 33 associations have dropped off the AP.  
I've been fighting this for a year.  I've installed my own 
grounding, a lighting dissipater, 6 new APs, 2 new omnis, and 3 
new cables.  I think I have ruled out anything that could be 
killing this AP except if something RF is killing it.  Any input 
will help.


Brian
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Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-20 Thread Jack Unger 

Brian,

Bandpass filters come in different band "widths". Some are full-band 
filters that pass 902-928 MHz and some are single-channel filters that 
are narrower and pass only one channel. The bandwidth of the two 
Ubiquity filters are a little narrow to use across the entire band but 
if you are using 912 or 917 as center frequencies, they should work 
well. If you're using a lower center frequency, you'll need a filter 
that has a bit wider bandwidth but which still attenuates the paging 
frequencies a lot. The availability of good whole-band bandpass filters 
seems to have deteriorated a bit in the last year. There are more 
filters available but they seem to have poorer characteristics and 
sometimes higher prices. I just looked at RFLinx and Hyperlinktech and I 
am not happy with their current offerings. I did discover a notch filter 
that is tuned to attenuate the paging frequencies while passing the 
902-928 frequencies. I don't know the pricing but if it's priced 
reasonably then it looks like your best bet. Here's the link:


http://www.microwavefilter.com/2ghzRelocation.htm#ism

It's the filter at the bottom of the page. If you call them to get a 
spec sheet and to check pricing, please share that info.


Thanks,
 jack


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

Thanks, Jack.  Would installing this one  http://www.ubnt.com/cf.php4  
be the correct move?  Or is something else preferred.


Brian

Jack Unger wrote:


Brian,

A -36 dBm signal probably won't destroy your receiver or permanently 
desensitize it however your best bet is to get confirmation from a 
Motorola rep. The signals you see at 928-930 MHz are from one or more 
paging transmitters. These paging signals could easily desensitize 
your AP receivers temporarily and cause a temporary inability to hear 
incoming SM signals.


Since you appear to be using antennas that are external to your APs, 
you can insert a bandpass filter between each AP and its antenna. This 
will attenuate the paging signals and allow the APs to receive SM's 
from further away. If the paging transmitters ARE the cause of your 
apparent AP receiver sensitivity deterioration, then the bandpass 
filters should be helpful in reducing the frequency of occurance of 
the problem.


jack


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

How would that help?  One sector is still pointing at the 
interference...Wouldn't that sector still make the radio fail, if 
the -36 signal is what is doing it?
My question from the original post.  Will that strong signal 
desensitize the radio into failure?  If not, then I need to figure 
out what kills my radios.  Why do they work fine for a month and then 
die?  I replace just the radio and they are fine for a while.


Brian


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

If you are that close to a source of interference you need to ditch 
the omnis and sectorize our tower.


laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own 
wisp!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization" 


Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 7:05 AM
Subject: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900


I keep losing canopy 900 APs.  I used the spectrum analyzer 
yesterday and saw -36 signal on channels 928, 929, and 930.  Will 
that strong signal desensitize the radio into failure?  because for 
some reason SMs that used to be -65 are -80 (on both sides of the 
like) and 17 out of 33 associations have dropped off the AP.  I've 
been fighting this for a year.  I've installed my own grounding, a 
lighting dissipater, 6 new APs, 2 new omnis, and 3 new cables.  I 
think I have ruled out anything that could be killing this AP 
except if something RF is killing it.  Any input will help.


Brian
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--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
Newsletters Downloadable from http://ask-wi.com/newsletters.html
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com



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Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-20 Thread Brian Rohrbacher 
Thanks, Jack.  Would installing this one  http://www.ubnt.com/cf.php4  
be the correct move?  Or is something else preferred.


Brian

Jack Unger wrote:

Brian,

A -36 dBm signal probably won't destroy your receiver or permanently 
desensitize it however your best bet is to get confirmation from a 
Motorola rep. The signals you see at 928-930 MHz are from one or more 
paging transmitters. These paging signals could easily desensitize 
your AP receivers temporarily and cause a temporary inability to hear 
incoming SM signals.


Since you appear to be using antennas that are external to your APs, 
you can insert a bandpass filter between each AP and its antenna. This 
will attenuate the paging signals and allow the APs to receive SM's 
from further away. If the paging transmitters ARE the cause of your 
apparent AP receiver sensitivity deterioration, then the bandpass 
filters should be helpful in reducing the frequency of occurance of 
the problem.


jack


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

How would that help?  One sector is still pointing at the 
interference...Wouldn't that sector still make the radio fail, if 
the -36 signal is what is doing it?
My question from the original post.  Will that strong signal 
desensitize the radio into failure?  If not, then I need to figure 
out what kills my radios.  Why do they work fine for a month and then 
die?  I replace just the radio and they are fine for a while.


Brian


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

If you are that close to a source of interference you need to ditch 
the omnis and sectorize our tower.


laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own 
wisp!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization" 


Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 7:05 AM
Subject: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900


I keep losing canopy 900 APs.  I used the spectrum analyzer 
yesterday and saw -36 signal on channels 928, 929, and 930.  Will 
that strong signal desensitize the radio into failure?  because for 
some reason SMs that used to be -65 are -80 (on both sides of the 
like) and 17 out of 33 associations have dropped off the AP.  I've 
been fighting this for a year.  I've installed my own grounding, a 
lighting dissipater, 6 new APs, 2 new omnis, and 3 new cables.  I 
think I have ruled out anything that could be killing this AP 
except if something RF is killing it.  Any input will help.


Brian
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Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-20 Thread Jack Unger 

Brian,

A -36 dBm signal probably won't destroy your receiver or permanently 
desensitize it however your best bet is to get confirmation from a 
Motorola rep. The signals you see at 928-930 MHz are from one or more 
paging transmitters. These paging signals could easily desensitize your 
AP receivers temporarily and cause a temporary inability to hear 
incoming SM signals.


Since you appear to be using antennas that are external to your APs, you 
can insert a bandpass filter between each AP and its antenna. This will 
attenuate the paging signals and allow the APs to receive SM's from 
further away. If the paging transmitters ARE the cause of your apparent 
AP receiver sensitivity deterioration, then the bandpass filters should 
be helpful in reducing the frequency of occurance of the problem.


jack


Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

How would that help?  One sector is still pointing at the 
interference...Wouldn't that sector still make the radio fail, if 
the -36 signal is what is doing it?
My question from the original post.  Will that strong signal desensitize 
the radio into failure?  If not, then I need to figure out what kills my 
radios.  Why do they work fine for a month and then die?  I replace just 
the radio and they are fine for a while.


Brian


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:

If you are that close to a source of interference you need to ditch 
the omnis and sectorize our tower.


laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization" 


Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 7:05 AM
Subject: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900


I keep losing canopy 900 APs.  I used the spectrum analyzer yesterday 
and saw -36 signal on channels 928, 929, and 930.  Will that strong 
signal desensitize the radio into failure?  because for some reason 
SMs that used to be -65 are -80 (on both sides of the like) and 17 
out of 33 associations have dropped off the AP.  I've been fighting 
this for a year.  I've installed my own grounding, a lighting 
dissipater, 6 new APs, 2 new omnis, and 3 new cables.  I think I have 
ruled out anything that could be killing this AP except if something 
RF is killing it.  Any input will help.


Brian
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--
Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the License-Free Wireless Industry Since 1993
Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
True Vendor-Neutral WISP Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting
Newsletters Downloadable from http://ask-wi.com/newsletters.html
Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220  www.ask-wi.com



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Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-20 Thread Brian Rohrbacher 
How would that help?  One sector is still pointing at the 
interference...Wouldn't that sector still make the radio fail, if 
the -36 signal is what is doing it?
My question from the original post.  Will that strong signal desensitize 
the radio into failure?  If not, then I need to figure out what kills my 
radios.  Why do they work fine for a month and then die?  I replace just 
the radio and they are fine for a while.


Brian


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
If you are that close to a source of interference you need to ditch 
the omnis and sectorize our tower.


laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization" 


Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 7:05 AM
Subject: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900


I keep losing canopy 900 APs.  I used the spectrum analyzer yesterday 
and saw -36 signal on channels 928, 929, and 930.  Will that strong 
signal desensitize the radio into failure?  because for some reason 
SMs that used to be -65 are -80 (on both sides of the like) and 17 
out of 33 associations have dropped off the AP.  I've been fighting 
this for a year.  I've installed my own grounding, a lighting 
dissipater, 6 new APs, 2 new omnis, and 3 new cables.  I think I have 
ruled out anything that could be killing this AP except if something 
RF is killing it.  Any input will help.


Brian
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Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-20 Thread Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 
If you are that close to a source of interference you need to ditch the 
omnis and sectorize our tower.


laters,
Marlon
(509) 982-2181   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization" 
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 7:05 AM
Subject: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900


I keep losing canopy 900 APs.  I used the spectrum analyzer yesterday and 
saw -36 signal on channels 928, 929, and 930.  Will that strong signal 
desensitize the radio into failure?  because for some reason SMs that used 
to be -65 are -80 (on both sides of the like) and 17 out of 33 associations 
have dropped off the AP.  I've been fighting this for a year.  I've 
installed my own grounding, a lighting dissipater, 6 new APs, 2 new omnis, 
and 3 new cables.  I think I have ruled out anything that could be killing 
this AP except if something RF is killing it.  Any input will help.


Brian
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Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-20 Thread Dylan Oliver 

Sorry! Didn't read your post carefully enough.

Best,
--
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Primaverity, LLC
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Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-20 Thread Brian Rohrbacher 

Thanks, I read it and yes, my SMs are balanced, or were, until the AP died.

Brian

Dylan Oliver wrote:

Hi Brian,

See this thread "Balancing your RF levels to get the best RF
performance" 


in the Canopy forums:

*http://tinyurl.com/28re8d*

Best,

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Re: [WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-20 Thread Dylan Oliver 

Hi Brian,

See this thread "Balancing your RF levels to get the best RF
performance"
in the Canopy forums:

*http://tinyurl.com/28re8d*

Best,
--
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC
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[WISPA] failing Canopy 900

2007-02-20 Thread Brian Rohrbacher 
I keep losing canopy 900 APs.  I used the spectrum analyzer yesterday 
and saw -36 signal on channels 928, 929, and 930.  Will that strong 
signal desensitize the radio into failure?  because for some reason SMs 
that used to be -65 are -80 (on both sides of the like) and 17 out of 33 
associations have dropped off the AP.  I've been fighting this for a 
year.  I've installed my own grounding, a lighting dissipater, 6 new 
APs, 2 new omnis, and 3 new cables.  I think I have ruled out anything 
that could be killing this AP except if something RF is killing it.  Any 
input will help.


Brian
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