Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed - changeoftopic -- customers / AP
Not sure but we make 2-4x more off customers with voip with minimal extra investment Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x102 On Apr 12, 2009, at 11:47 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: That brings up a whole new point that I had never considered How many more users can you put on an AP if you are NOT providing VoIP services that you have to support? It would seem you could make up any profit on VoIP by being able to add a few additional users to an AP that you couldn't before... :) Travis Microserv Scott Carullo wrote: Doesn't all the residential associations still affect your business latency etc? Or is it small enough not to be noticed? You also don't do voip that changes the game. You can get away with a lot with just data... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x102 On Apr 12, 2009, at 9:55 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Tom, I think you are missing a BIG key that many ISP's (starting clear back in the dial-up days) have missed. The best mix, use of resources, and profitability comes from having high ARPU business customers AND residential users. Why? Because the business customers use the bandwidth from 8:00AM to 5:00PM M-F... while the residential users are 5:00PM to 8:00AM M-F and weekends. As far as user counts go, we are about 90% residential and 10% business... but as far as revenue it's probably closer to 80%/20% or even 70%/30%. We sell a lot of residential wireless and yet our peak bandwdith usage is at 10:00AM M-F... so I am able to sell that same bandwidth again at night to the residential users. Travis Microserv Tom DeReggi wrote: No its not an unrealistic goal, if the business model is low margin high volume type subs. There can be much less maintenance with building a business model on a smaller number of business subs, making it not necessary to get that much per sub. For example, We'll sell 10Mhz of spectrum for $1000/month, to a single customer. Where that will only yield us $2000 per sectors, its also only 2 customer and locations to support. I will also say that in competitive served markets, its getting harder and harder to get 100 users on a AP, if in a market thats asking for 5mbps speeds, or 1mbps uploads. Sure, I've gotten 75 users on a 3mb 900 sectors, in an unserved market, but that is different that a market competing with Cable and Fios, for example, where users actually expect to be able to upload with bit torrent, and watch their NetFlix movies. In my earlier years, I was sold on the fact that low ARPU subs was the better market, because if selling 1mbps services, the oversubscription ratios on 10mb sectors could be much much higher. However, I am learning that the High ARPU higher capacity business, with little over subscriptions, is proving more profitable. Its also changes a bit, if wholesale markets are required. Sure if you are the only one in town, onme can stand firm on maximizing the return per sector, at $5K per sector. But a reseller won't pay you $5k per sector, they'll building over you instead. Sometimes its worth getting much less per sector, using the reseller, instead of competiing with their interference otherwise. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed - change oftopic -- customers / AP Travis It has been great to see how you have turned into seasoned Canopy provider SO i must assume your opinion of the product has changed recently... Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 12:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed - change of topic -- customers / AP Hi, I think that's maybe a little high... we have a Canopy AP right now with 100 users on it... about 10% business and 90% residential and it's probably bringing in about $3,500 / month. We will probably load it up to about 120 users total, at which point it will be around $4,000 / month. Travis Microserv Charles Wu wrote: Which begs an interesting point -- how much revenue / AP? I would think $5k / month for a 20 MHz chunk of 5.8 spectrum, while a bit on the higher side, isn't an unreasonable goal Using Canopy...you have 14 Mb aggregate Selling for $50 / month residential -- that's 100 customers sharing 14 Mb Splitting between $100 / month business and $50 / month residential (for better traffic shaping) -- that's now 20 business customers during the day
Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed - changeoftopic -- customers / AP
Doesn't all the residential associations still affect your business latency etc? Or is it small enough not to be noticed? You also don't do voip that changes the game. You can get away with a lot with just data... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x102 On Apr 12, 2009, at 9:55 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Tom, I think you are missing a BIG key that many ISP's (starting clear back in the dial-up days) have missed. The best mix, use of resources, and profitability comes from having high ARPU business customers AND residential users. Why? Because the business customers use the bandwidth from 8:00AM to 5:00PM M-F... while the residential users are 5:00PM to 8:00AM M-F and weekends. As far as user counts go, we are about 90% residential and 10% business... but as far as revenue it's probably closer to 80%/20% or even 70%/30%. We sell a lot of residential wireless and yet our peak bandwdith usage is at 10:00AM M-F... so I am able to sell that same bandwidth again at night to the residential users. Travis Microserv Tom DeReggi wrote: No its not an unrealistic goal, if the business model is low margin high volume type subs. There can be much less maintenance with building a business model on a smaller number of business subs, making it not necessary to get that much per sub. For example, We'll sell 10Mhz of spectrum for $1000/month, to a single customer. Where that will only yield us $2000 per sectors, its also only 2 customer and locations to support. I will also say that in competitive served markets, its getting harder and harder to get 100 users on a AP, if in a market thats asking for 5mbps speeds, or 1mbps uploads. Sure, I've gotten 75 users on a 3mb 900 sectors, in an unserved market, but that is different that a market competing with Cable and Fios, for example, where users actually expect to be able to upload with bit torrent, and watch their NetFlix movies. In my earlier years, I was sold on the fact that low ARPU subs was the better market, because if selling 1mbps services, the oversubscription ratios on 10mb sectors could be much much higher. However, I am learning that the High ARPU higher capacity business, with little over subscriptions, is proving more profitable. Its also changes a bit, if wholesale markets are required. Sure if you are the only one in town, onme can stand firm on maximizing the return per sector, at $5K per sector. But a reseller won't pay you $5k per sector, they'll building over you instead. Sometimes its worth getting much less per sector, using the reseller, instead of competiing with their interference otherwise. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Gino Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed - change oftopic -- customers / AP Travis It has been great to see how you have turned into seasoned Canopy provider SO i must assume your opinion of the product has changed recently... Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 12:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed - change of topic -- customers / AP Hi, I think that's maybe a little high... we have a Canopy AP right now with 100 users on it... about 10% business and 90% residential and it's probably bringing in about $3,500 / month. We will probably load it up to about 120 users total, at which point it will be around $4,000 / month. Travis Microserv Charles Wu wrote: Which begs an interesting point -- how much revenue / AP? I would think $5k / month for a 20 MHz chunk of 5.8 spectrum, while a bit on the higher side, isn't an unreasonable goal Using Canopy...you have 14 Mb aggregate Selling for $50 / month residential -- that's 100 customers sharing 14 Mb Splitting between $100 / month business and $50 / month residential (for better traffic shaping) -- that's now 20 business customers during the day time (8-5) 60 residential customers in the afternoon / evening (4-12) Now obviously, there will always be places where you're shooting into a hole, or there aren't that many homes / business being covered, blah blah blah blah -- but I don't think $5k / month / AP is an unreasonable goal Thoughts? Comments? -Charles -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 5:56 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re:
Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed - changeoftopic -- customers / AP
That brings up a whole new point that I had never considered How many more users can you put on an AP if you are NOT providing VoIP services that you have to support? It would seem you could make up any profit on VoIP by being able to add a few additional users to an AP that you couldn't before... :) Travis Microserv Scott Carullo wrote: Doesn't all the residential associations still affect your business latency etc? Or is it small enough not to be noticed? You also don't do voip that changes the game. You can get away with a lot with just data... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x102 On Apr 12, 2009, at 9:55 PM, Travis Johnson t...@ida.net wrote: Tom, I think you are missing a BIG key that many ISP's (starting clear back in the dial-up days) have missed. The best mix, use of resources, and profitability comes from having high ARPU business customers AND residential users. Why? Because the business customers use the bandwidth from 8:00AM to 5:00PM M-F... while the residential users are 5:00PM to 8:00AM M-F and weekends. As far as user counts go, we are about 90% residential and 10% business... but as far as revenue it's probably closer to 80%/20% or even 70%/30%. We sell a lot of residential wireless and yet our peak bandwdith usage is at 10:00AM M-F... so I am able to sell that same bandwidth again at night to the residential users. Travis Microserv Tom DeReggi wrote: No its not an unrealistic goal, if the business model is low margin high volume type subs. There can be much less maintenance with building a business model on a smaller number of business subs, making it not necessary to get that much per sub. For example, We'll sell 10Mhz of spectrum for $1000/month, to a single customer. Where that will only yield us $2000 per sectors, its also only 2 customer and locations to support. I will also say that in competitive served markets, its getting harder and harder to get 100 users on a AP, if in a market thats asking for 5mbps speeds, or 1mbps uploads. Sure, I've gotten 75 users on a 3mb 900 sectors, in an unserved market, but that is different that a market competing with Cable and Fios, for example, where users actually expect to be able to upload with bit torrent, and watch their NetFlix movies. In my earlier years, I was sold on the fact that low ARPU subs was the better market, because if selling 1mbps services, the oversubscription ratios on 10mb sectors could be much much higher. However, I am learning that the High ARPU higher capacity business, with little over subscriptions, is proving more profitable. Its also changes a bit, if wholesale markets are required. Sure if you are the only one in town, onme can stand firm on maximizing the return per sector, at $5K per sector. But a reseller won't pay you $5k per sector, they'll building over you instead. Sometimes its worth getting much less per sector, using the reseller, instead of competiing with their interference otherwise. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Gino Villarini" g...@aeronetpr.com To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed - change oftopic -- customers / AP Travis It has been great to see how you have turned into seasoned Canopy provider SO i must assume your opinion of the product has changed recently... Gino A. Villarini g...@aeronetpr.com Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 12:11 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed - change of topic -- customers / AP Hi, I think that's maybe a little high... we have a Canopy AP right now with 100 users on it... about 10% business and 90% residential and it's probably bringing in about $3,500 / month. We will probably load it up to about 120 users total, at which point it will be around $4,000 / month. Travis Microserv Charles Wu wrote: Which begs an interesting point -- how much revenue / AP? I would think $5k / month for a 20 MHz chunk of 5.8 spectrum, while a bit on the higher side, isn't an unreasonable goal Using Canopy...you have 14 Mb aggregate Selling for $50 / month residential -- that's 100 customers sharing 14 Mb Splitting between $100 / month business and $50 / month residential (for better traffic shaping) -- that's now 20 business customers during the day time (8-5) 60 residential customers in the afternoon / evening (4-12) Now obviously, there will always be places where you're shooting into a hole, or there aren't that many homes / business being covered, blah blah blah blah --
