That brings up a whole new point that I had never considered....
How many more users can you put on an AP if you are NOT providing VoIP
services that you have to support? It would seem you could make up any
profit on VoIP by being able to add a few additional users to an AP
that you couldn't before... :)
Travis
Microserv
Scott Carullo wrote:
Doesn't all the residential associations still affect your business
latency etc? Or is it small enough not to be noticed?
You also don't do voip that changes the game. You can get away with a
lot with just data...
Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
(321) 205-1100 x102
On Apr 12, 2009, at 9:55 PM, Travis Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
Tom,
I think you are missing a BIG key that many ISP's (starting clear
back in the dial-up days) have missed. The best mix, use of
resources, and profitability comes from having high ARPU business
customers AND residential users. Why? Because the business customers
use the bandwidth from 8:00AM to 5:00PM M-F... while the residential
users are 5:00PM to 8:00AM M-F and weekends.
As far as user counts go, we are about 90% residential and 10%
business... but as far as revenue it's probably closer to 80%/20% or
even 70%/30%. We sell a lot of residential wireless and yet our peak
bandwdith usage is at 10:00AM M-F... so I am able to sell that same
bandwidth again at night to the residential users.
Travis
Microserv
Tom DeReggi wrote:
No its not an unrealistic goal, if the business model is low margin
high
volume type subs.
There can be much less maintenance with building a business model
on a
smaller number of business subs, making it not necessary to get
that much
per sub.
For example, We'll sell 10Mhz of spectrum for $1000/month, to a
single
customer. Where that will only yield us $2000 per sectors, its also
only 2
customer and locations to support.
I will also say that in competitive served markets, its getting
harder and
harder to get 100 users on a AP, if in a market thats asking for
5mbps
speeds, or > 1mbps uploads. Sure, I've gotten 75 users on a 3mb 900
sectors, in an unserved market, but that is different that a market
competing with Cable and Fios, for example, where users actually
expect to
be able to upload with bit torrent, and watch their NetFlix movies.
In my earlier years, I was sold on the fact that low ARPU subs was
the
better market, because if selling 1mbps services, the
oversubscription
ratios on 10mb sectors could be much much higher. However, I am
learning
that the High ARPU higher capacity business, with little over
subscriptions,
is proving more profitable.
Its also changes a bit, if wholesale markets are required. Sure if
you are
the only one in town, onme can stand firm on maximizing the return
per
sector, at $5K per sector.
But a reseller won't pay you $5k per sector, they'll building over
you
instead. Sometimes its worth getting much less per sector, using the
reseller, instead of competiing with their interference otherwise.
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gino Villarini" <[email protected]>
To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed - change
oftopic -- customers / AP
Travis
It has been great to see how you have turned into seasoned Canopy
provider ....
SO i must assume your opinion of the product has changed recently...
Gino A. Villarini
[email protected]
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145
________________________________
From: [email protected] [mailto:wireless-
[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 12:11 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed -
change of
topic -- customers / AP
Hi,
I think that's maybe a little high... we have a Canopy AP right
now with
100 users on it... about 10% business and 90% residential.... and
it's
probably bringing in about $3,500 / month. We will probably load
it up
to about 120 users total, at which point it will be around $4,000 /
month.
Travis
Microserv
Charles Wu wrote:
Which begs an interesting point -- how much revenue / AP?
I would think $5k / month for a 20 MHz chunk of 5.8 spectrum,
while a bit on the higher side, isn't an unreasonable goal
Using Canopy...you have 14 Mb aggregate
Selling for $50 / month residential -- that's 100 customers
sharing 14 Mb
Splitting between $100 / month business and $50 / month
residential (for better traffic shaping) -- that's now
20 business customers during the day time (8-5)
60 residential customers in the afternoon / evening (4-12)
Now obviously, there will always be places where you're shooting
into a hole, or there aren't that many homes / business being
covered,
blah blah blah blah -- but I don't think $5k / month / AP is an
unreasonable goal
Thoughts? Comments?
-Charles
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 5:56 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed
This has been an outstanding thread I have enjoyed reading - and
learned a
bit in the process... thanks.
I'll just add that while we are trying to keep the numbers
trained to a
common wisp - either you guys have a lucky horse shoe or
achieving a
$5000/mo revenue on one ap is a bit outside the avg... At least
for
discussion sake. But - even at 1/5th of that your argument
still holds
true for the most part. Its just that you add in 900mhz (not as
common)
and all the lower power 5Ghz spectrum available now, 2.4Ghz etc
and also
mention you can run MT stuff on 10Mhz channels and you just
effectively
doubled your options based on what type of clients you are
servicing etc...
Then theres radios that have GPS sync for spectrum reuse etc
and the
conversation starts to get a lot more complex :)
But, in any case this has been an eye-opening discussion...
Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102
-------- Original Message --------
From: "Charles Wu"
<IMCEAEX-_O=CTI_OU=EXCHANGE+20ADMINISTRATIVE+20GROUP
+20+28FYDIBOHF23SPDL
T+29
[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 2:47 PM
To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs.
Unlicensed
I do see Travis's point about the longer range
shots, however. I've
got a 35, 45 and 65 mile shots with StarOS and
they work just fine but
only put out about 18-25meg at those distances.
That's enough for me,
but I can see where you would want more capacity
and I suppose that
within that narrow definition, a PTP600 would be
better than a licensed
link.
Make no mistake, the PTP600, even though it's almost 5
years old, is
still one (if not the) best UL radio on the market from a pure
technological perspective -- no other radio has it's combination
of 1024FFT
OFDM, Space-Time-Coding, MIMO, etc
Makes you wonder what planet Motorola / Orthogon raided
to get the
engineers who built that radio =)
And I'm sure many on the list can attest to the
wonderful things that a
PTP600 does / can do
However, the discussion has to come back to the reality
that we don't
work for the government (and can't print money or write stimulus
bills on a
whim), and as a result, have to figure out a way to make a buck
so we can
feed the dog, buy gas, pay for those ski trips in Utah...
That said, we get back to "bang for buck" or "good
enough"
True, the PTP600 will generally work for all scenarios,
but it's akin to
killing a bug with a nuclear warhead -- it's a lot more cost
effective (and
there's less collateral damage) if you just step on it with your
shoe
So, for the 1% of times when you need to shoot 50+ miles
while bouncing
off 2 different mountains, the PTP600 will be your best bet
But for the other 90% of the time, when you have a 10-20
mile shot and
want something that reliable, carrier-class, and interference /
spectrum
isn't an issue, many are using Mikrotiks / StarOS / Trango Atlas
/ name
your own cheap but decent proprietary Atheros-based system out
there
Now, I'm personally extremely cheap, but the argument is
over because you
can't just look at up-front price because long-term cost is just
as (if not
more) important when talking about WISP networks
That said, being a slow day, it's worth exercising one's
mind to analyze
possible "what-if" alternative situations -- bear with me here
and follow
my logic here...
The MOST VALUABLE ASSET of any WISP is HIGH POWER
MULTIPOINT SPECTRUM
(b/c ultimately, it's the only thing that generates revenue, and
like it or
not, the #1 determinant in valuing a WISP, or any business for
the matter,
is EBITDA)
In optimal conditions, there's 125 MHz of clean spectrum
(6 channels)
Assuming you can make $5k / month per AP (or channel) --
as spectrum gets
limited, the decision will ultimately boil down to
1. Pay $2k for a cheap Atheros based backhaul to bring
30 Mb to your
tower and lose 1 channel (or $5k / month in revenue)
2. Run that backhaul in turbo mode, get 50 Mb at your
tower, and now lose
2 channels (or $10k / month in revenue)
3. Pay an extra $10k for a LICENSED BACKHAUL that frees
up more spectrum
for multipoint, and never have to worry about interference on
your backhaul
ever again -- and make an extra $5-10k / month b/c you can add
more
customers on your tower
Some food for thought =)
-Charles
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