Doesn't all the residential associations still affect your business latency etc? Or is it small enough not to be noticed?
You also don't do voip that changes the game. You can get away with a lot with just data... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless (321) 205-1100 x102 On Apr 12, 2009, at 9:55 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote: > Tom, > > I think you are missing a BIG key that many ISP's (starting clear > back in the dial-up days) have missed. The best mix, use of > resources, and profitability comes from having high ARPU business > customers AND residential users. Why? Because the business customers > use the bandwidth from 8:00AM to 5:00PM M-F... while the residential > users are 5:00PM to 8:00AM M-F and weekends. > > As far as user counts go, we are about 90% residential and 10% > business... but as far as revenue it's probably closer to 80%/20% or > even 70%/30%. We sell a lot of residential wireless and yet our peak > bandwdith usage is at 10:00AM M-F... so I am able to sell that same > bandwidth again at night to the residential users. > > Travis > Microserv > > Tom DeReggi wrote: >> >> No its not an unrealistic goal, if the business model is low margin >> high >> volume type subs. >> There can be much less maintenance with building a business model >> on a >> smaller number of business subs, making it not necessary to get >> that much >> per sub. >> For example, We'll sell 10Mhz of spectrum for $1000/month, to a >> single >> customer. Where that will only yield us $2000 per sectors, its also >> only 2 >> customer and locations to support. >> >> I will also say that in competitive served markets, its getting >> harder and >> harder to get 100 users on a AP, if in a market thats asking for >> 5mbps >> speeds, or > 1mbps uploads. Sure, I've gotten 75 users on a 3mb 900 >> sectors, in an unserved market, but that is different that a market >> competing with Cable and Fios, for example, where users actually >> expect to >> be able to upload with bit torrent, and watch their NetFlix movies. >> >> In my earlier years, I was sold on the fact that low ARPU subs was >> the >> better market, because if selling 1mbps services, the >> oversubscription >> ratios on 10mb sectors could be much much higher. However, I am >> learning >> that the High ARPU higher capacity business, with little over >> subscriptions, >> is proving more profitable. >> >> Its also changes a bit, if wholesale markets are required. Sure if >> you are >> the only one in town, onme can stand firm on maximizing the return >> per >> sector, at $5K per sector. >> But a reseller won't pay you $5k per sector, they'll building over >> you >> instead. Sometimes its worth getting much less per sector, using the >> reseller, instead of competiing with their interference otherwise. >> >> Tom DeReggi >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Gino Villarini" <g...@aeronetpr.com> >> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >> Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 9:41 AM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed - change >> oftopic -- customers / AP >> >> >> >>> Travis >>> >>> It has been great to see how you have turned into seasoned Canopy >>> provider .... >>> >>> SO i must assume your opinion of the product has changed recently... >>> >>> >>> Gino A. Villarini >>> g...@aeronetpr.com >>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. >>> tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- >>> boun...@wispa.org] On >>> Behalf Of Travis Johnson >>> Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 12:11 AM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed - >>> change of >>> topic -- customers / AP >>> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I think that's maybe a little high... we have a Canopy AP right >>> now with >>> 100 users on it... about 10% business and 90% residential.... and >>> it's >>> probably bringing in about $3,500 / month. We will probably load >>> it up >>> to about 120 users total, at which point it will be around $4,000 / >>> month. >>> >>> Travis >>> Microserv >>> >>> Charles Wu wrote: >>> >>> Which begs an interesting point -- how much revenue / AP? >>> >>> I would think $5k / month for a 20 MHz chunk of 5.8 spectrum, >>> while a bit on the higher side, isn't an unreasonable goal >>> >>> Using Canopy...you have 14 Mb aggregate >>> >>> Selling for $50 / month residential -- that's 100 customers >>> sharing 14 Mb >>> Splitting between $100 / month business and $50 / month >>> residential (for better traffic shaping) -- that's now >>> >>> 20 business customers during the day time (8-5) >>> 60 residential customers in the afternoon / evening (4-12) >>> >>> Now obviously, there will always be places where you're shooting >>> into a hole, or there aren't that many homes / business being >>> covered, >>> blah blah blah blah -- but I don't think $5k / month / AP is an >>> unreasonable goal >>> >>> Thoughts? Comments? >>> >>> -Charles >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org >>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo >>> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 5:56 PM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed >>> >>> >>> This has been an outstanding thread I have enjoyed reading - and >>> learned a >>> bit in the process... thanks. >>> >>> I'll just add that while we are trying to keep the numbers >>> trained to a >>> common wisp - either you guys have a lucky horse shoe or >>> achieving a >>> $5000/mo revenue on one ap is a bit outside the avg... At least >>> for >>> discussion sake. But - even at 1/5th of that your argument >>> still holds >>> true for the most part. Its just that you add in 900mhz (not as >>> common) >>> and all the lower power 5Ghz spectrum available now, 2.4Ghz etc >>> and also >>> mention you can run MT stuff on 10Mhz channels and you just >>> effectively >>> doubled your options based on what type of clients you are >>> servicing etc... >>> Then theres radios that have GPS sync for spectrum reuse etc >>> and the >>> conversation starts to get a lot more complex :) >>> >>> But, in any case this has been an eye-opening discussion... >>> >>> Scott Carullo >>> Brevard Wireless >>> 321-205-1100 x102 >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> >>> >>> From: "Charles Wu" >>> >>> >>> >>> <IMCEAEX-_O=CTI_OU=EXCHANGE+20ADMINISTRATIVE+20GROUP >>> +20+28FYDIBOHF23SPDL >>> T+29 >>> _cn=recipients_cn=char...@converge-tech.com> >>> >>> >>> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 2:47 PM >>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org> >>> <mailto:wireless@wispa.org> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. >>> Unlicensed >>> >>> >>> >>> I do see Travis's point about the longer range >>> shots, however. I've >>> got a 35, 45 and 65 mile shots with StarOS and >>> they work just fine but >>> only put out about 18-25meg at those distances. >>> That's enough for me, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> but I can see where you would want more capacity >>> and I suppose that >>> within that narrow definition, a PTP600 would be >>> better than a licensed >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> link. >>> >>> >>> Make no mistake, the PTP600, even though it's almost 5 >>> years old, is >>> >>> >>> still one (if not the) best UL radio on the market from a pure >>> technological perspective -- no other radio has it's combination >>> of 1024FFT >>> OFDM, Space-Time-Coding, MIMO, etc >>> >>> >>> Makes you wonder what planet Motorola / Orthogon raided >>> to get the >>> >>> >>> engineers who built that radio =) >>> >>> >>> And I'm sure many on the list can attest to the >>> wonderful things that a >>> >>> >>> PTP600 does / can do >>> >>> >>> However, the discussion has to come back to the reality >>> that we don't >>> >>> >>> work for the government (and can't print money or write stimulus >>> bills on a >>> whim), and as a result, have to figure out a way to make a buck >>> so we can >>> feed the dog, buy gas, pay for those ski trips in Utah... >>> >>> >>> That said, we get back to "bang for buck" or "good >>> enough" >>> >>> True, the PTP600 will generally work for all scenarios, >>> but it's akin to >>> >>> >>> killing a bug with a nuclear warhead -- it's a lot more cost >>> effective (and >>> there's less collateral damage) if you just step on it with your >>> shoe >>> >>> >>> So, for the 1% of times when you need to shoot 50+ miles >>> while bouncing >>> >>> >>> off 2 different mountains, the PTP600 will be your best bet >>> >>> >>> But for the other 90% of the time, when you have a 10-20 >>> mile shot and >>> >>> >>> want something that reliable, carrier-class, and interference / >>> spectrum >>> isn't an issue, many are using Mikrotiks / StarOS / Trango Atlas >>> / name >>> your own cheap but decent proprietary Atheros-based system out >>> there >>> >>> >>> Now, I'm personally extremely cheap, but the argument is >>> over because you >>> >>> >>> can't just look at up-front price because long-term cost is just >>> as (if not >>> more) important when talking about WISP networks >>> >>> >>> That said, being a slow day, it's worth exercising one's >>> mind to analyze >>> >>> >>> possible "what-if" alternative situations -- bear with me here >>> and follow >>> my logic here... >>> >>> >>> The MOST VALUABLE ASSET of any WISP is HIGH POWER >>> MULTIPOINT SPECTRUM >>> >>> >>> (b/c ultimately, it's the only thing that generates revenue, and >>> like it or >>> not, the #1 determinant in valuing a WISP, or any business for >>> the matter, >>> is EBITDA) >>> >>> >>> In optimal conditions, there's 125 MHz of clean spectrum >>> (6 channels) >>> Assuming you can make $5k / month per AP (or channel) -- >>> as spectrum gets >>> >>> >>> limited, the decision will ultimately boil down to >>> >>> >>> 1. Pay $2k for a cheap Atheros based backhaul to bring >>> 30 Mb to your >>> >>> >>> tower and lose 1 channel (or $5k / month in revenue) >>> >>> >>> 2. Run that backhaul in turbo mode, get 50 Mb at your >>> tower, and now lose >>> >>> >>> 2 channels (or $10k / month in revenue) >>> >>> >>> 3. Pay an extra $10k for a LICENSED BACKHAUL that frees >>> up more spectrum >>> >>> >>> for multipoint, and never have to worry about interference on >>> your backhaul >>> ever again -- and make an extra $5-10k / month b/c you can add >>> more >>> customers on your tower >>> >>> >>> Some food for thought =) >>> >>> -Charles >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> --- >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ---- >>> ---- >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wants You! 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