Not sure but we make 2-4x more off customers with voip with minimal  
extra investment

Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
(321) 205-1100 x102

On Apr 12, 2009, at 11:47 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:

> That brings up a whole new point that I had never considered....
>
> How many more users can you put on an AP if you are NOT providing  
> VoIP services that you have to support? It would seem you could make  
> up any profit on VoIP by being able to add a few additional users to  
> an AP that you couldn't before... :)
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
> Scott Carullo wrote:
>>
>> Doesn't all the residential associations still affect your business
>> latency etc?  Or is it small enough not to be noticed?
>>
>> You also don't do voip that changes the game.  You can get away  
>> with a
>> lot with just data...
>>
>> Scott Carullo
>> Brevard Wireless
>> (321) 205-1100 x102
>>
>> On Apr 12, 2009, at 9:55 PM, Travis Johnson <t...@ida.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Tom,
>>>
>>> I think you are missing a BIG key that many ISP's (starting clear
>>> back in the dial-up days) have missed. The best mix, use of
>>> resources, and profitability comes from having high ARPU business
>>> customers AND residential users. Why? Because the business customers
>>> use the bandwidth from 8:00AM to 5:00PM M-F... while the residential
>>> users are 5:00PM to 8:00AM M-F and weekends.
>>>
>>> As far as user counts go, we are about 90% residential and 10%
>>> business... but as far as revenue it's probably closer to 80%/20% or
>>> even 70%/30%. We sell a lot of residential wireless and yet our peak
>>> bandwdith usage is at 10:00AM M-F... so I am able to sell that same
>>> bandwidth again at night to the residential users.
>>>
>>> Travis
>>> Microserv
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>>
>>>> No its not an unrealistic goal, if the business model is low margin
>>>> high
>>>> volume type subs.
>>>> There can be much less maintenance with building a business model
>>>> on a
>>>> smaller number of business subs, making it not necessary to get
>>>> that much
>>>> per sub.
>>>> For example, We'll sell 10Mhz of spectrum for $1000/month, to a
>>>> single
>>>> customer. Where that will only yield us $2000 per sectors, its also
>>>> only 2
>>>> customer and locations to support.
>>>>
>>>> I will also say that in competitive served markets, its getting
>>>> harder and
>>>> harder to get 100 users on a AP, if in a market thats asking for
>>>> 5mbps
>>>> speeds, or > 1mbps uploads.  Sure, I've gotten 75 users on a 3mb  
>>>> 900
>>>> sectors, in an unserved market, but that is different that a market
>>>> competing with Cable and Fios, for example, where users actually
>>>> expect to
>>>> be able to upload with bit torrent, and watch their NetFlix movies.
>>>>
>>>> In my earlier years, I was sold on the fact that low ARPU subs was
>>>> the
>>>> better market, because if selling 1mbps services, the
>>>> oversubscription
>>>> ratios on 10mb sectors could be much much higher. However, I am
>>>> learning
>>>> that the High ARPU higher capacity business, with little over
>>>> subscriptions,
>>>> is proving more profitable.
>>>>
>>>> Its also changes a bit, if wholesale markets are required. Sure if
>>>> you are
>>>> the only one in town, onme can stand firm on maximizing the return
>>>> per
>>>> sector, at $5K per sector.
>>>> But a reseller won't pay you $5k per sector, they'll building over
>>>> you
>>>> instead. Sometimes its worth getting much less per sector, using  
>>>> the
>>>> reseller, instead of competiing with their interference otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> Tom DeReggi
>>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Gino Villarini" <g...@aeronetpr.com>
>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 9:41 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed -  
>>>> change
>>>> oftopic -- customers / AP
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Travis
>>>>>
>>>>> It has been great to see how you have turned into seasoned Canopy
>>>>> provider ....
>>>>>
>>>>> SO i must assume your opinion of the product has changed  
>>>>> recently...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>>>> g...@aeronetpr.com
>>>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>>>> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
>>>>> boun...@wispa.org] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 12:11 AM
>>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed -
>>>>> change of
>>>>> topic -- customers / AP
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that's maybe a little high... we have a Canopy AP right
>>>>> now with
>>>>> 100 users on it... about 10% business and 90% residential.... and
>>>>> it's
>>>>> probably bringing in about $3,500 / month. We will probably load
>>>>> it up
>>>>> to about 120 users total, at which point it will be around  
>>>>> $4,000 /
>>>>> month.
>>>>>
>>>>> Travis
>>>>> Microserv
>>>>>
>>>>> Charles Wu wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Which begs an interesting point -- how much revenue / AP?
>>>>>
>>>>> I would think $5k / month for a 20 MHz chunk of 5.8 spectrum,
>>>>> while a bit on the higher side, isn't an unreasonable goal
>>>>>
>>>>> Using Canopy...you have 14 Mb aggregate
>>>>>
>>>>> Selling for $50 / month residential -- that's 100 customers
>>>>> sharing 14 Mb
>>>>> Splitting between $100 / month business and $50 / month
>>>>> residential (for better traffic shaping) -- that's now
>>>>>
>>>>> 20 business customers during the day time (8-5)
>>>>> 60 residential customers in the afternoon / evening (4-12)
>>>>>
>>>>> Now obviously, there will always be places where you're shooting
>>>>> into a hole, or there aren't that many homes / business being
>>>>> covered,
>>>>> blah blah blah blah -- but I don't think $5k / month / AP is an
>>>>> unreasonable goal
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts? Comments?
>>>>>
>>>>> -Charles
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
>>>>> [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Scott Carullo
>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 5:56 PM
>>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs. Unlicensed
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This has been an outstanding thread I have enjoyed reading - and
>>>>> learned a
>>>>> bit in the process...  thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll just add that while we are trying to keep the numbers
>>>>> trained to a
>>>>> common wisp - either you guys have a lucky horse shoe or
>>>>> achieving a
>>>>> $5000/mo revenue on one ap is a bit outside the avg...  At least
>>>>> for
>>>>> discussion sake.  But - even at 1/5th of that your argument
>>>>> still holds
>>>>> true for the most part.  Its just that you add in 900mhz (not as
>>>>> common)
>>>>> and all the lower power 5Ghz spectrum available now, 2.4Ghz etc
>>>>> and also
>>>>> mention you can run MT stuff on 10Mhz channels and you just
>>>>> effectively
>>>>> doubled your options based on what type of clients you are
>>>>> servicing etc...
>>>>> Then theres radios that have GPS sync for spectrum reuse etc
>>>>> and the
>>>>> conversation starts to get a lot more complex :)
>>>>>
>>>>> But, in any case this has been an eye-opening discussion...
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott Carullo
>>>>> Brevard Wireless
>>>>> 321-205-1100 x102
>>>>>
>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: "Charles Wu"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <IMCEAEX-_O=CTI_OU=EXCHANGE+20ADMINISTRATIVE+20GROUP
>>>>> +20+28FYDIBOHF23SPDL
>>>>> T+29
>>>>> _cn=recipients_cn=char...@converge-tech.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 2:47 PM
>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
>>>>> <mailto:wireless@wispa.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] High Throughput Licensed vs.
>>>>> Unlicensed
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I do see Travis's point about the longer range
>>>>> shots, however.   I've
>>>>> got a 35, 45 and 65 mile shots with StarOS and
>>>>> they work just fine but
>>>>> only put out about 18-25meg at those distances.
>>>>> That's enough for me,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> but I can see where you would want more capacity
>>>>> and I suppose that
>>>>> within that narrow definition, a PTP600 would be
>>>>> better than a licensed
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> link.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Make no mistake, the PTP600, even though it's almost 5
>>>>> years old, is
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> still one (if not the) best UL radio on the market from a pure
>>>>> technological perspective -- no other radio has it's combination
>>>>> of 1024FFT
>>>>> OFDM, Space-Time-Coding, MIMO, etc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Makes you wonder what planet Motorola / Orthogon raided
>>>>> to get the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> engineers who built that radio =)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And I'm sure many on the list can attest to the
>>>>> wonderful things that a
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> PTP600 does / can do
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> However, the discussion has to come back to the reality
>>>>> that we don't
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> work for the government (and can't print money or write stimulus
>>>>> bills on a
>>>>> whim), and as a result, have to figure out a way to make a buck
>>>>> so we can
>>>>> feed the dog, buy gas, pay for those ski trips in Utah...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, we get back to "bang for buck" or "good
>>>>> enough"
>>>>>
>>>>> True, the PTP600 will generally work for all scenarios,
>>>>> but it's akin to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> killing a bug with a nuclear warhead -- it's a lot more cost
>>>>> effective (and
>>>>> there's less collateral damage) if you just step on it with your
>>>>> shoe
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, for the 1% of times when you need to shoot 50+ miles
>>>>> while bouncing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> off 2 different mountains, the PTP600 will be your best bet
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But for the other 90% of the time, when you have a 10-20
>>>>> mile shot and
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> want something that reliable, carrier-class, and interference /
>>>>> spectrum
>>>>> isn't an issue, many are using Mikrotiks / StarOS / Trango Atlas
>>>>> / name
>>>>> your own cheap but decent proprietary Atheros-based system out
>>>>> there
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, I'm personally extremely cheap, but the argument is
>>>>> over because you
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> can't just look at up-front price because long-term cost is just
>>>>> as (if not
>>>>> more) important when talking about WISP networks
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, being a slow day, it's worth exercising one's
>>>>> mind to analyze
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> possible "what-if" alternative situations -- bear with me here
>>>>> and follow
>>>>> my logic here...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The MOST VALUABLE ASSET of any WISP is HIGH POWER
>>>>> MULTIPOINT SPECTRUM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (b/c ultimately, it's the only thing that generates revenue, and
>>>>> like it or
>>>>> not, the #1 determinant in valuing a WISP, or any business for
>>>>> the matter,
>>>>> is EBITDA)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In optimal conditions, there's 125 MHz of clean spectrum
>>>>> (6 channels)
>>>>> Assuming you can make $5k / month per AP (or channel) --
>>>>> as spectrum gets
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> limited, the decision will ultimately boil down to
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Pay $2k for a cheap Atheros based backhaul to bring
>>>>> 30 Mb to your
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> tower and lose 1 channel (or $5k / month in revenue)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Run that backhaul in turbo mode, get 50 Mb at your
>>>>> tower, and now lose
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2 channels (or $10k / month in revenue)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Pay an extra $10k for a LICENSED BACKHAUL that frees
>>>>> up more spectrum
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> for multipoint, and never have to worry about interference on
>>>>> your backhaul
>>>>> ever again -- and make an extra $5-10k / month b/c you can add
>>>>> more
>>>>> customers on your tower
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Some food for thought =)
>>>>>
>>>>> -Charles
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> ---
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> ----
>>>>> ----
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> ---
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> ----
>>>>> ----
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>>
>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> ---
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> --------
>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> ---
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> --------
>>>>>
>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>>
>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> ---
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> --------
>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> ---
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> --------
>>>>>
>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>>
>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> ---
>>>>> ---
>>>>> ---
>>>>> --- 
>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>>> ---
>>>>> ---
>>>>> ---
>>>>> ---
>>>>> --- 
>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>>
>>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> --- 
>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> ---
>>>> --- 
>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>>
>>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>>
>>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Reply via email to