RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP
I did it to expose the problems associated with 802.11b/g which is a technology that was NOT designed for what it is being used for today. I think several people on the list realized what tricks can be done with the SSID and now they are smarter because I posted it. The whole point of the post is that you need to use a proprietary solution that was designed for WISP usage. If you were a professional WISP you would be using such solution and thus YOU and YOUR customers would not be subject to someone doing this to you. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:14 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP Kurt Your killing me. This has to be the lowest underhanded thing I've heard on these list from a fellow wisp. The goal to win is a fine goal, but winning by cheating is not a win at all, it's an admission of failure. You need to understand that integrity and success go hand in hand. Shaking my head. George And I only let you off lightly because your a young kid, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: I do that too, 3 competitors have towers all within ¼ mile of each other, I put their ssid in my AP but turn the broadcast off, their clients associate to me and I deny all their access so when they try to hook up customers it looks like their connected but they cant figure out why it doesnt work, keeps them from signing up clients in my area. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Rick Smith *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:12 AM *To:* 'WISPA General List' *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP actually, I was kidding about the competitor thing, wanted to see if it'd start a fire. It's something I'd thought of, but you can't route based on Virtual AP SSID Having an invididual hotspot page per virtual SSID would be cool, on a wholesale level... *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Reed *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:44 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP What happens when a potential customer sees the competition's name? They call the competitor who says, We don't do that. Then what, do you get called by the competitor? I guess my question is, how does advertising the competitor's name help you? I like the wholesale idea though. I may have to pursue that in the future. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net http://www.nwwnet.net/ The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas, because Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe! *-- Original Message ---* From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:15:08 -0500 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP Yep, I create virtual SSIDs for all my competitors names (they only do DSL) :) I also wholesale service off one of my towers via 2.4 and 900 mhz to a local computer guy that likes to see his name in the air - the virtual SSID thing was a natural win... Not sure about the broadcast thing...haven't seen a performance hit because of the virtual ssid's ... R -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Virtual AP Mikrotik APs have the capability to create a Virtual AP with a secondary SSID, but I haven't found much documentation about it. Has anyone used this feature much? I could see this being useful during a transitional period, while you are changing the SSID, so you can access the CPE with the old ssid. I could also see this being useful for colocating two companies on the same tower/AP, like if you have an ISP geared toward residential service, and another company name/marketing scheme for business customers. I don't know what kind of performance impact there is when you create a bunch of APs on one radio. I had a wierd thought about this, however: If I have 40 clients on an AP, and set up 40 virtual AP's on the network with each client on his own SSID, do they count as 40 PTP links, allowing me to kick up the antenna gain like with the CPE? Does the virtual AP really broadcast a secondary SSID, or does it switch between the two rapidly, kind of like a poor man's Time Division Multiplexing. Pete Davis NoDial.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe
Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP
The downside of proprietary systems is the being 'held hostage' to the one manufacture As some of us have already discovered. And just because you have a network based on 'proprietary system', don't think you are 'safe'. You are not. Blair Kurt Fankhauser wrote: I did it to expose the problems associated with 802.11b/g which is a technology that was NOT designed for what it is being used for today. I think several people on the list realized what tricks can be done with the SSID and now they are smarter because I posted it. The whole point of the post is that you need to use a proprietary solution that was designed for WISP usage. If you were a professional WISP you would be using such solution and thus YOU and YOUR customers would not be subject to someone doing this to you. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of George Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:14 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP Kurt Your killing me. This has to be the lowest underhanded thing I've heard on these list from a fellow wisp. The goal to win is a fine goal, but winning by cheating is not a win at all, it's an admission of failure. You need to understand that integrity and success go hand in hand. Shaking my head. George And I only let you off lightly because your a young kid, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: I do that too, 3 competitors have towers all within mile of each other, I put their ssid in my AP but turn the broadcast off, their clients associate to me and I deny all their access so when they try to hook up customers it looks like their connected but they cant figure out why it doesnt work, keeps them from signing up clients in my area. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] *On Behalf Of *Rick Smith *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:12 AM *To:* 'WISPA General List' *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP actually, I was kidding about the competitor thing, wanted to see if it'd start a fire. It's something I'd thought of, but you can't route based on Virtual AP SSID Having an invididual hotspot page per virtual SSID would be cool, on a wholesale level... *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] *On Behalf Of *Scott Reed *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:44 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP What happens when a potential customer sees the competition's name? They call the competitor who says, "We don't do that." Then what, do you get called by the competitor? I guess my question is, how does advertising the competitor's name help you? I like the wholesale idea though. I may have to pursue that in the future. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net http://www.nwwnet.net/ The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas, because Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe! *-- Original Message ---* From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "'WISPA General List'" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:15:08 -0500 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP Yep, I create virtual SSIDs for all my competitors names (they only do DSL) :) I also wholesale service off one of my towers via 2.4 and 900 mhz to a local computer guy that likes to see his name "in the air" - the virtual SSID thing was a natural win... Not sure about the broadcast thing...haven't seen a performance hit because of the virtual ssid's ... R -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Virtual AP Mikrotik APs have the capability to create a "Virtual AP" with a secondary SSID, but I haven't found much documentation about it. Has anyone used this feature much? I could see this being useful during a transitional period, while you are changing the SSID, so you can access the CPE with the "old" ssid. I could also see this being useful for colocating two companies on the
Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP
I still rest better at night knowing my network doesn't show up in every teenager's copy of Netstumbler.. - Original Message - From: Blair Davis To: WISPA General List Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP The downside of proprietary systems is the being 'held hostage' to the one manufacture As some of us have already discovered.And just because you have a network based on 'proprietary system', don't think you are 'safe'. You are not.BlairKurt Fankhauser wrote: I did it to expose the problems associated with 802.11b/g which is a technology that was NOT designed for what it is being used for today. I think several people on the list realized what tricks can be done with the SSID and now they are smarter because I posted it. The whole point of the post is that you need to use a proprietary solution that was designed for WISP usage. If you were a professional WISP you would be using such solution and thus YOU and YOUR customers would not be subject to someone doing this to you. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of George Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:14 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP Kurt Your killing me. This has to be the lowest underhanded thing I've heard on these list from a fellow wisp. The goal to win is a fine goal, but winning by cheating is not a win at all, it's an admission of failure. You need to understand that integrity and success go hand in hand. Shaking my head. George And I only let you off lightly because your a young kid, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: I do that too, 3 competitors have towers all within ¼ mile of each other, I put their ssid in my AP but turn the broadcast off, their clients associate to me and I deny all their access so when they try to hook up customers it looks like their connected but they cant figure out why it doesnt work, keeps them from signing up clients in my area. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] *On Behalf Of *Rick Smith *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:12 AM *To:* 'WISPA General List' *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP actually, I was kidding about the competitor thing, wanted to see if it'd start a fire. It's something I'd thought of, but you can't route based on Virtual AP SSID Having an invididual hotspot page per virtual SSID would be cool, on a wholesale level... *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] *On Behalf Of *Scott Reed *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:44 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP What happens when a potential customer sees the competition's name? They call the competitor who says, "We don't do that." Then what, do you get called by the competitor? I guess my question is, how does advertising the competitor's name help you? I like the wholesale idea though. I may have to pursue that in the future. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net http://www.nwwnet.net/ The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas, because Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe! *-- Original Message ---* From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "'WISPA General List'" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:15:08 -0500 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP Yep, I create virtual SSIDs for all my competitors names (they only do DSL) :) I also wholesale service off one of my towers via 2.4 and 900 mhz to a local computer guy that likes to see his name "in the air" - the virtual SSID thing was a natural win... Not sure about the broadcast thing...haven't seen a performance hit because of the virtual ssid's ... R -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Virtual AP Mikrotik APs have the capability to create a "Virtual AP" with a secondary SSID, but I haven't found much documentation about it. Has anyone used this feature much? I could see this being useful during a transitional period, while you are changing the SSID, so you can access the CPE with the "old" ssid. I could also
RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP
What other things can be assigned per virtual SSID? It would be nice if you could set separate frequencies (or channel bandwidths) but I doubt this is technically possible. Cheers, P. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: 27 December 2005 15:49 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP On Tue, 27 Dec 2005, John Scrivner wrote: associate and use the AP. One nice feature is the ability to set different AP features for each SSID. For instance you can have different WEP or other security settings for each virtual AP. Nice feature. Yes, this is a nice feature. MT also allows you to have unique WEP keys per sub, whether you use virtual APs or not. -- Butch Evans BPS Networks http://www.bpsnetworks.com/ Bernie, MO Mikrotik Certified Consultant (http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 23/12/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.8/215 - Release Date: 27/12/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP
How can I avoid my competition doing this to me? Yes, Hide SSID. However, that does not help, if you are offering a self signup service where seeing the SSID is what brings in the subscriber in the first place. I suggest Virtual APs, so monthly subscribers can be transitioned to a different SSID. In other words advertise one, and then after you qualify them and have their contact info, mail them a new preferred SSID to use, that is not broadcasted. But the only real thing you can do about it is to deploy gear that does not have that limitation. One of the reasons, we deploy Trango, that has connection security built in. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP How can I avoid my competition doing this to me? Hide SSID and change it every so often? Tom DeReggi wrote: I have to agree with John. I can't see the benefit of resorting to those type of poor neighbor policies. First off, I'd be embaressed to admit it openly on the list. Second you are borderlining on legality. You just provided evidence that you purposely attempt to degrade another businesses ability to do business, where you'd likely lose now in a suit for tortuous interference (or what ever that is called), if ever taken up against you. Secondly, anything you do to them, ultimately can be done back to you, if they get work of your tactics. Its been proven many time over, that friendly neighbor policies far better mutually benefit WISPs. I'd advise re-tinking your strategy. At minimum, if the goal was to get your competitors's clients to associate to you, the las tthing you'd want to point out to them is that your network would be vulnerable to the same tactics that your neighbor was. You expose the flaws in Wifi, and you ALSO provide wifi. If you insisted on tactics to steal their association, you'd be much better off, having their clients connect to you, and then you pass them to your captive portal signup page, with a splash page for better rates and/or performance options, with an option to continue at low bandwdith. The last thing you want to do is play Thug tactics, (sorta like mafia protection money), stating we are the ones destroying your ability to use the Internet, pay us, or don't communicate at all. No one wants to buy service from someone that they've developed animosity towards. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP Short of frustrating potential customers I cannot fathom what positive effect this process has. Please enlighten me how this is a good thing to do. Scriv Kurt Fankhauser wrote: I do that too, 3 competitors have towers all within ¼ mile of each other, I put their ssid in my AP but turn the broadcast off, their clients associate to me and I deny all their access so when they try to hook up customers it looks like their connected but they cant figure out why it doesn’t work, keeps them from signing up clients in my area. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Rick Smith *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:12 AM *To:* 'WISPA General List' *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP actually, I was kidding about the competitor thing, wanted to see if it'd start a fire. It's something I'd thought of, but you can't route based on Virtual AP SSID Having an invididual hotspot page per virtual SSID would be cool, on a wholesale level... *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Reed *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:44 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP What happens when a potential customer sees the competition's name? They call the competitor who says, We don't do that. Then what, do you get called by the competitor? I guess my question is, how does advertising the competitor's name help you? I like the wholesale idea though. I may have to pursue that in the future. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net http://www.nwwnet.net/ The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas, because Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe! *-- Original Message ---* From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:15:08 -0500 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP Yep, I create
Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP
Thanks Butch-Original Message-From: Butch Evans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 06:38 PMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual APOn Wed, 28 Dec 2005, Ron Wallace wrote:OK guys, what is a virtual AP, if they are more reliable than my existing APs, I take a truck load.Virtual AP functionality is documented here:http://www.mikrotik.com/docs/ros/2.9/interface/wireless-- Butch EvansBPS Networks http://www.bpsnetworks.com/Bernie, MOMikrotik Certified Consultant(http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html)-- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.orgSubscribe/Unsubscribe:http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wirelessArchives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP
Well, I certainly am a newbie in many ways.-Original Message-From: Mac Dearman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 07:52 PMTo: 'WISPA General List'Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual APIt is as simple as knowing the MAC addy of your Access Point. You would have to be either pretty stupid or a complete Newbie to the wireless world to let a fake SSID trip you up. Kurt - - if you think for one minute you are slowing them down or keeping them out of a specific territory by doing this - - you are the Newbie :-)Mac DearmanMaximum Access, LLC.www.inetsouth.comwww.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts)318-728-8600 - Rayville318-728-9600Tom DeReggi wrote: How can I avoid my competition doing this to me? Yes, Hide SSID. However, that does not help, if you are offering a self signup service where seeing the SSID is what brings in the subscriber in the first place. I suggest Virtual APs, so monthly subscribers can be transitioned to a different SSID. In other words advertise one, and then after you qualify them and have their contact info, mail them a new preferred SSID to use, that is not broadcasted. But the only real thing you can do about it is to deploy gear that does not have that limitation. One of the reasons, we deploy Trango, that has connection security built in. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Brian Rohrbacher" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP How can I avoid my competition doing this to me? Hide SSID and change it every so often? Tom DeReggi wrote: I have to agree with John. I can't see the benefit of resorting to those type of poor neighbor policies. First off, I'd be embaressed to admit it openly on the list. Second you are borderlining on legality. You just provided evidence that you purposely attempt to degrade another businesses ability to do business, where you'd likely lose now in a suit for tortuous interference (or what ever that is called), if ever taken up against you. Secondly, anything you do to them, ultimately can be done back to you, if they get work of your tactics. Its been proven many time over, that friendly neighbor policies far better mutually benefit WISPs. I'd advise re-tinking your strategy. At minimum, if the goal was to get your competitors's clients to associate to you, the las tthing you'd want to point out to them is that your network would be vulnerable to the same tactics that your neighbor was. You expose the flaws in Wifi, and you ALSO provide wifi. If you insisted on tactics to steal their association, you'd be much better off, having their clients connect to you, and then you pass them to your captive portal signup page, with a splash page for better rates and/or performance options, with an option to continue at low bandwdith. The last thing you want to do is play Thug tactics, (sorta like mafia protection money), stating we are the ones destroying your ability to use the Internet, pay us, or don't communicate at all. No one wants to buy service from someone that they've developed animosity towards. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP Short of frustrating potential customers I cannot fathom what positive effect this process has. Please enlighten me how this is a good thing to do. Scriv Kurt Fankhauser wrote: I do that too, 3 competitors have towers all within ¼ mile of each other, I put their ssid in my AP but turn the broadcast off, their clients associate to me and I deny all their access so when they try to hook up customers it looks like their connected but they cant figure out why it doesn’t work, keeps them from signing up clients in my area. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Rick Smith *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:12 AM *To:* 'WISPA General List' *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP actually, I was kidding about the competitor thing, wanted to see if it'd start a fire. It's something I'd thought of, but you can't route based on Virtual AP SSID Having an invididual hotspot page per virtual SSID would be cool, on a wholesale level... *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Reed *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:44 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP What happens when a potential customer sees the competition's name? They call the competitor who says, "We
RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP
...if you think for one minute you are slowing them down or keeping them out of a specific territory by doing this.. Thats why god invented the canopy cluster... Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mac Dearman Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 4:53 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP It is as simple as knowing the MAC addy of your Access Point. You would have to be either pretty stupid or a complete Newbie to the wireless world to let a fake SSID trip you up. Kurt - - if you think for one minute you are slowing them down or keeping them out of a specific territory by doing this - - you are the Newbie :-) Mac Dearman Maximum Access, LLC. www.inetsouth.com www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts) 318-728-8600 - Rayville 318-728-9600 Tom DeReggi wrote: How can I avoid my competition doing this to me? Yes, Hide SSID. However, that does not help, if you are offering a self signup service where seeing the SSID is what brings in the subscriber in the first place. I suggest Virtual APs, so monthly subscribers can be transitioned to a different SSID. In other words advertise one, and then after you qualify them and have their contact info, mail them a new preferred SSID to use, that is not broadcasted. But the only real thing you can do about it is to deploy gear that does not have that limitation. One of the reasons, we deploy Trango, that has connection security built in. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP How can I avoid my competition doing this to me? Hide SSID and change it every so often? Tom DeReggi wrote: I have to agree with John. I can't see the benefit of resorting to those type of poor neighbor policies. First off, I'd be embaressed to admit it openly on the list. Second you are borderlining on legality. You just provided evidence that you purposely attempt to degrade another businesses ability to do business, where you'd likely lose now in a suit for tortuous interference (or what ever that is called), if ever taken up against you. Secondly, anything you do to them, ultimately can be done back to you, if they get work of your tactics. Its been proven many time over, that friendly neighbor policies far better mutually benefit WISPs. I'd advise re-tinking your strategy. At minimum, if the goal was to get your competitors's clients to associate to you, the las tthing you'd want to point out to them is that your network would be vulnerable to the same tactics that your neighbor was. You expose the flaws in Wifi, and you ALSO provide wifi. If you insisted on tactics to steal their association, you'd be much better off, having their clients connect to you, and then you pass them to your captive portal signup page, with a splash page for better rates and/or performance options, with an option to continue at low bandwdith. The last thing you want to do is play Thug tactics, (sorta like mafia protection money), stating we are the ones destroying your ability to use the Internet, pay us, or don't communicate at all. No one wants to buy service from someone that they've developed animosity towards. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP Short of frustrating potential customers I cannot fathom what positive effect this process has. Please enlighten me how this is a good thing to do. Scriv Kurt Fankhauser wrote: I do that too, 3 competitors have towers all within ¼ mile of each other, I put their ssid in my AP but turn the broadcast off, their clients associate to me and I deny all their access so when they try to hook up customers it looks like their connected but they cant figure out why it doesnt work, keeps them from signing up clients in my area. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Rick Smith *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:12 AM *To:* 'WISPA General List' *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP actually, I was kidding about the competitor thing, wanted to see if it'd start a fire. It's something I'd thought of, but you can't route based on Virtual AP SSID Having an invididual hotspot page per virtual SSID would be cool, on a wholesale level
Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP
Kurt Your killing me. This has to be the lowest underhanded thing I've heard on these list from a fellow wisp. The goal to win is a fine goal, but winning by cheating is not a win at all, it's an admission of failure. You need to understand that integrity and success go hand in hand. Shaking my head. George And I only let you off lightly because your a young kid, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: I do that too, 3 competitors have towers all within ¼ mile of each other, I put their ssid in my AP but turn the broadcast off, their clients associate to me and I deny all their access so when they try to hook up customers it looks like their connected but they cant figure out why it doesn’t work, keeps them from signing up clients in my area. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Rick Smith *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:12 AM *To:* 'WISPA General List' *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP actually, I was kidding about the competitor thing, wanted to see if it'd start a fire. It's something I'd thought of, but you can't route based on Virtual AP SSID Having an invididual hotspot page per virtual SSID would be cool, on a wholesale level... *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Reed *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:44 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP What happens when a potential customer sees the competition's name? They call the competitor who says, We don't do that. Then what, do you get called by the competitor? I guess my question is, how does advertising the competitor's name help you? I like the wholesale idea though. I may have to pursue that in the future. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net http://www.nwwnet.net/ The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas, because Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe! *-- Original Message ---* From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:15:08 -0500 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP Yep, I create virtual SSIDs for all my competitors names (they only do DSL) :) I also wholesale service off one of my towers via 2.4 and 900 mhz to a local computer guy that likes to see his name in the air - the virtual SSID thing was a natural win... Not sure about the broadcast thing...haven't seen a performance hit because of the virtual ssid's ... R -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Virtual AP Mikrotik APs have the capability to create a Virtual AP with a secondary SSID, but I haven't found much documentation about it. Has anyone used this feature much? I could see this being useful during a transitional period, while you are changing the SSID, so you can access the CPE with the old ssid. I could also see this being useful for colocating two companies on the same tower/AP, like if you have an ISP geared toward residential service, and another company name/marketing scheme for business customers. I don't know what kind of performance impact there is when you create a bunch of APs on one radio. I had a wierd thought about this, however: If I have 40 clients on an AP, and set up 40 virtual AP's on the network with each client on his own SSID, do they count as 40 PTP links, allowing me to kick up the antenna gain like with the CPE? Does the virtual AP really broadcast a secondary SSID, or does it switch between the two rapidly, kind of like a poor man's Time Division Multiplexing. Pete Davis NoDial.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ *--- End of Original Message ---* -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database
Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005, John Scrivner wrote: associate and use the AP. One nice feature is the ability to set different AP features for each SSID. For instance you can have different WEP or other security settings for each virtual AP. Nice feature. Yes, this is a nice feature. MT also allows you to have unique WEP keys per sub, whether you use virtual APs or not. -- Butch Evans BPS Networks http://www.bpsnetworks.com/ Bernie, MO Mikrotik Certified Consultant (http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP
actually, I was kidding about the competitor thing, wanted to see if it'd start a fire. It's something I'd thought of, but you can't route based on Virtual AP SSID Having an invididual hotspot page per virtual SSID would be cool, on a wholesale level... From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott ReedSent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:44 AMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP What happens when a potential customer sees the competition's name? They call the competitor who says, "We don't do that." Then what, do you get called by the competitor? I guess my question is, how does advertising the competitor's name help you? I like the wholesale idea though. I may have to pursue that in the future. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas, because Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe! -- Original Message --- From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "'WISPA General List'" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:15:08 -0500 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP Yep, I create virtual SSIDs for all my competitors names (they only do DSL) :) I also wholesale service off one of my towers via 2.4 and 900 mhz to a local computer guy that likes to see his name "in the air" - the virtual SSID thing was a natural win... Not sure about the broadcast thing...haven't seen a performance hit because of the virtual ssid's ... R -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Virtual AP Mikrotik APs have the capability to create a "Virtual AP" with a secondary SSID, but I haven't found much documentation about it. Has anyone used this feature much? I could see this being useful during a transitional period, while you are changing the SSID, so you can access the CPE with the "old" ssid. I could also see this being useful for colocating two companies on the same tower/AP, like if you have an ISP geared toward residential service, and another company name/marketing scheme for business customers. I don't know what kind of performance impact there is when you create a bunch of APs on one radio. I had a wierd thought about this, however: If I have 40 clients on an AP, and set up 40 "virtual AP's" on the network with each client on his own SSID, do they count as 40 PTP links, allowing me to kick up the antenna gain like with the CPE? Does the virtual AP really broadcast a secondary SSID, or does it switch between the two rapidly, kind of like a poor man's Time Division Multiplexing. Pete Davis NoDial.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- End of Original Message --- --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP
I do that too, 3 competitors have towers all within mile of each other, I put their ssid in my AP but turn the broadcast off, their clients associate to me and I deny all their access so when they try to hook up customers it looks like their connected but they cant figure out why it doesnt work, keeps them from signing up clients in my area. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Smith Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:12 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP actually, I was kidding about the competitor thing, wanted to see if it'd start a fire. It's something I'd thought of, but you can't route based on Virtual AP SSID Having an invididual hotspot page per virtual SSID would be cool, on a wholesale level... From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Scott Reed Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:44 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP What happens when a potential customer sees the competition's name? They call the competitor who says, We don't do that. Then what, do you get called by the competitor? I guess my question is, how does advertising the competitor's name help you? I like the wholesale idea though. I may have to pursue that in the future. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas, because Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe! -- Original Message --- From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:15:08 -0500 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP Yep, I create virtual SSIDs for all my competitors names (they only do DSL) :) I also wholesale service off one of my towers via 2.4 and 900 mhz to a local computer guy that likes to see his name in the air - the virtual SSID thing was a natural win... Not sure about the broadcast thing...haven't seen a performance hit because of the virtual ssid's ... R -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Virtual AP Mikrotik APs have the capability to create a Virtual AP with a secondary SSID, but I haven't found much documentation about it. Has anyone used this feature much? I could see this being useful during a transitional period, while you are changing the SSID, so you can access the CPE with the old ssid. I could also see this being useful for colocating two companies on the same tower/AP, like if you have an ISP geared toward residential service, and another company name/marketing scheme for business customers. I don't know what kind of performance impact there is when you create a bunch of APs on one radio. I had a wierd thought about this, however: If I have 40 clients on an AP, and set up 40 virtual AP's on the network with each client on his own SSID, do they count as 40 PTP links, allowing me to kick up the antenna gain like with the CPE? Does the virtual AP really broadcast a secondary SSID, or does it switch between the two rapidly, kind of like a poor man's Time Division Multiplexing. Pete Davis NoDial.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ --- End of Original Message --- -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP
I have to agree with John. I can't see the benefit of resorting to those type of poor neighbor policies. First off, I'd be embaressed to admit it openly on the list. Second you are borderlining on legality. You just provided evidence that you purposely attempt to degrade another businesses ability to do business, where you'd likely lose now in a suit for tortuous interference (or what ever that is called), if ever taken up against you. Secondly, anything you do to them, ultimately can be done back to you, if they get work of your tactics. Its been proven many time over, that friendly neighbor policies far better mutually benefit WISPs. I'd advise re-tinking your strategy. At minimum, if the goal was to get your competitors's clients to associate to you, the las tthing you'd want to point out to them is that your network would be vulnerable to the same tactics that your neighbor was. You expose the flaws in Wifi, and you ALSO provide wifi. If you insisted on tactics to steal their association, you'd be much better off, having their clients connect to you, and then you pass them to your captive portal signup page, with a splash page for better rates and/or performance options, with an option to continue at low bandwdith. The last thing you want to do is play Thug tactics, (sorta like mafia protection money), stating we are the ones destroying your ability to use the Internet, pay us, or don't communicate at all. No one wants to buy service from someone that they've developed animosity towards. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP Short of frustrating potential customers I cannot fathom what positive effect this process has. Please enlighten me how this is a good thing to do. Scriv Kurt Fankhauser wrote: I do that too, 3 competitors have towers all within ¼ mile of each other, I put their ssid in my AP but turn the broadcast off, their clients associate to me and I deny all their access so when they try to hook up customers it looks like their connected but they cant figure out why it doesn’t work, keeps them from signing up clients in my area. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Rick Smith *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:12 AM *To:* 'WISPA General List' *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP actually, I was kidding about the competitor thing, wanted to see if it'd start a fire. It's something I'd thought of, but you can't route based on Virtual AP SSID Having an invididual hotspot page per virtual SSID would be cool, on a wholesale level... *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Reed *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:44 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP What happens when a potential customer sees the competition's name? They call the competitor who says, We don't do that. Then what, do you get called by the competitor? I guess my question is, how does advertising the competitor's name help you? I like the wholesale idea though. I may have to pursue that in the future. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net http://www.nwwnet.net/ The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas, because Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe! *-- Original Message ---* From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:15:08 -0500 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP Yep, I create virtual SSIDs for all my competitors names (they only do DSL) :) I also wholesale service off one of my towers via 2.4 and 900 mhz to a local computer guy that likes to see his name in the air - the virtual SSID thing was a natural win... Not sure about the broadcast thing...haven't seen a performance hit because of the virtual ssid's ... R -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Virtual AP Mikrotik APs have the capability to create a Virtual AP with a secondary SSID, but I haven't found much documentation about it. Has anyone used this feature much? I could see this being useful during a transitional period, while you are changing the SSID, so you can access the CPE with the old ssid. I could also see this being useful for colocating two companies on the same tower/AP, like if you have an ISP geared toward residential service, and another company
Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP
I don't know...I think its kind of a cute idea! :-) OK...But as a board member I cannot condone such business tactics. Play fair now. As you were.. -B- Tom DeReggi wrote: I have to agree with John. I can't see the benefit of resorting to those type of poor neighbor policies. First off, I'd be embaressed to admit it openly on the list. Second you are borderlining on legality. You just provided evidence that you purposely attempt to degrade another businesses ability to do business, where you'd likely lose now in a suit for tortuous interference (or what ever that is called), if ever taken up against you. Secondly, anything you do to them, ultimately can be done back to you, if they get work of your tactics. Its been proven many time over, that friendly neighbor policies far better mutually benefit WISPs. I'd advise re-tinking your strategy. At minimum, if the goal was to get your competitors's clients to associate to you, the las tthing you'd want to point out to them is that your network would be vulnerable to the same tactics that your neighbor was. You expose the flaws in Wifi, and you ALSO provide wifi. If you insisted on tactics to steal their association, you'd be much better off, having their clients connect to you, and then you pass them to your captive portal signup page, with a splash page for better rates and/or performance options, with an option to continue at low bandwdith. The last thing you want to do is play Thug tactics, (sorta like mafia protection money), stating we are the ones destroying your ability to use the Internet, pay us, or don't communicate at all. No one wants to buy service from someone that they've developed animosity towards. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP Short of frustrating potential customers I cannot fathom what positive effect this process has. Please enlighten me how this is a good thing to do. Scriv -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP
Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should John Kurt Fankhauser wrote: I do that too, 3 competitors have towers all within ¼ mile of each other, I put their ssid in my AP but turn the broadcast off, their clients associate to me and I deny all their access so when they try to hook up customers it looks like their connected but they cant figure out why it doesn’t work, keeps them from signing up clients in my area. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Rick Smith *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:12 AM *To:* 'WISPA General List' *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP actually, I was kidding about the competitor thing, wanted to see if it'd start a fire. It's something I'd thought of, but you can't route based on Virtual AP SSID Having an invididual hotspot page per virtual SSID would be cool, on a wholesale level... *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Reed *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:44 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP What happens when a potential customer sees the competition's name? They call the competitor who says, We don't do that. Then what, do you get called by the competitor? I guess my question is, how does advertising the competitor's name help you? I like the wholesale idea though. I may have to pursue that in the future. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net http://www.nwwnet.net/ The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas, because Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe! *-- Original Message ---* From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:15:08 -0500 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP Yep, I create virtual SSIDs for all my competitors names (they only do DSL) :) I also wholesale service off one of my towers via 2.4 and 900 mhz to a local computer guy that likes to see his name in the air - the virtual SSID thing was a natural win... Not sure about the broadcast thing...haven't seen a performance hit because of the virtual ssid's ... R -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Virtual AP Mikrotik APs have the capability to create a Virtual AP with a secondary SSID, but I haven't found much documentation about it. Has anyone used this feature much? I could see this being useful during a transitional period, while you are changing the SSID, so you can access the CPE with the old ssid. I could also see this being useful for colocating two companies on the same tower/AP, like if you have an ISP geared toward residential service, and another company name/marketing scheme for business customers. I don't know what kind of performance impact there is when you create a bunch of APs on one radio. I had a wierd thought about this, however: If I have 40 clients on an AP, and set up 40 virtual AP's on the network with each client on his own SSID, do they count as 40 PTP links, allowing me to kick up the antenna gain like with the CPE? Does the virtual AP really broadcast a secondary SSID, or does it switch between the two rapidly, kind of like a poor man's Time Division Multiplexing. Pete Davis NoDial.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ *--- End of Original Message ---* -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.7/214 - Release Date: 12/23/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP
If you have a competitor on a nearby tower who is uncooperative with you on channel coordination or whatever, I could see this as a way to goof with your competitor, by having his clients associate with you instead, and flood their technical support lines with calls. Having the virtual AP only run from 3:30pm to 4:30pm every other Monday could really make things fun for them to figure out. Thats a mean thing to do, and I would never recommend that anyone do unto others as they wouldn't have done to them. If a competitor goes broke and pulls the plug on his AP, this could REALLY be benificial, as you could advertise on the hotspot signin screen that there will be no setup fee for former brandX clients. If you turn on universal client, you might pick up a customer who sees your tower better than your competitor. About as underhanded and unethical as callforwarding his sales line to yours, but Pete Davis NoDial.net John Scrivner wrote: Short of frustrating potential customers I cannot fathom what positive effect this process has. Please enlighten me how this is a good thing to do. Scriv Kurt Fankhauser wrote: I do that too, 3 competitors have towers all within ¼ mile of each other, I put their ssid in my AP but turn the broadcast off, their clients associate to me and I deny all their access so when they try to hook up customers it looks like their connected but they cant figure out why it doesn’t work, keeps them from signing up clients in my area. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC 114 S. Walnut St. Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Rick Smith *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:12 AM *To:* 'WISPA General List' *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP actually, I was kidding about the competitor thing, wanted to see if it'd start a fire. It's something I'd thought of, but you can't route based on Virtual AP SSID Having an invididual hotspot page per virtual SSID would be cool, on a wholesale level... *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Scott Reed *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:44 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP What happens when a potential customer sees the competition's name? They call the competitor who says, We don't do that. Then what, do you get called by the competitor? I guess my question is, how does advertising the competitor's name help you? I like the wholesale idea though. I may have to pursue that in the future. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net http://www.nwwnet.net/ The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas, because Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe! *-- Original Message ---* From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:15:08 -0500 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP Yep, I create virtual SSIDs for all my competitors names (they only do DSL) :) I also wholesale service off one of my towers via 2.4 and 900 mhz to a local computer guy that likes to see his name in the air - the virtual SSID thing was a natural win... Not sure about the broadcast thing...haven't seen a performance hit because of the virtual ssid's ... R -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Davis Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:57 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Virtual AP Mikrotik APs have the capability to create a Virtual AP with a secondary SSID, but I haven't found much documentation about it. Has anyone used this feature much? I could see this being useful during a transitional period, while you are changing the SSID, so you can access the CPE with the old ssid. I could also see this being useful for colocating two companies on the same tower/AP, like if you have an ISP geared toward residential service, and another company name/marketing scheme for business customers. I don't know what kind of performance impact there is when you create a bunch of APs on one radio. I had a wierd thought about this, however: If I have 40 clients on an AP, and set up 40 virtual AP's on the network with each client on his own SSID, do they count as 40 PTP links, allowing me to kick up the antenna gain like with the CPE? Does the virtual AP really broadcast a secondary SSID, or does it switch between the two rapidly, kind of like a poor man's Time Division Multiplexing. Pete Davis NoDial.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked
