[WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?

[Roman]

Dear readers,

Do you have any experience with successful blocking of P2P (eDonkey,
Torrents etc.) traffic in your wireless networks?

Any user who uses torrent client at his PC can effectively consume a lot of
bandwidth of Wi-Fi access point, leaving other honest users with small
portion of throughput. Port blocking does not help because nowadays P2P
clients use random ports, encryption and other means to hide traffic
patterns. I suppose that only one distinctive feature of such traffic
exists: its ability to consume effective bandwidth.

Do you happen to know or use any traffic shaping tools which can limit
throughput per user?
Thank you in advance for any thoghts, ideas etc...



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Re: [WISPA] Broadband compared to electricity of the early 1900's

[Brian Webster]

Travis,
The electrical grid is not as easy to manage and build as some people 
might
think, even if it is one way so to speak. Found this out when I was building
rural cellular towers. When we would pull service to a new site it would be
built for 800-1200 amps capacity. In some parts of the country when we asked
the power company to plan for that they would go crazy. In parts of
Washington and Oregon we had to submit very sophisticated load planning
documents. In some cases they stated they could not deliver the amount of
service for the planned capacity the tower was built for. We had seen
carriers easily max out a 200 amp service in summer months with their big
shelters and HVAC units. In some cases AT&T or Nextel had to pull in a
second 200 amp service. Telling the power companies this in the rural areas
made them nervous. I eventually got to speak with one of the engineers, he
explained the in some places the grid was not built to handle large
commercial loads like what we had planned and it meant major construction
and upgrades for them to deliver that level of demand.
The comparison to the electrical grid in that article is more to the 
point
of how they had the same challenges as we do with broadband, getting service
to rural areas they could not cost justify the build out. More importantly
back when they had the arguments about building the electrical
infrastructure, people had no concept what technologies would evolve using
electricity. They just thought it was going to bring lights. Look at all of
the things that developed in the last 100 years that required the use of
electricity. Now imagine (or try to) what will evolve from the use of the
internet in the next 80 years and beyond. I'll be the first to admit I have
been wrong about many technologies or things that I thought were not
possible just a few years ago. I'm a fool if I think things can't or won't
change over time.



Thank You,
Brian Webster

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:43 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband compared to electricity of the early
1900's


Hi,

I've kept this email since you sent it out. I just now read the article,
and I agree with many things stated there. About two days before you
sent this article, it came to my mind (because there was a discussion
about metered billing) that electricity is metered... yet, it's so cheap
now that people don't worry about leaving their TV or lights on while
they are gone from the house for a few hours. I think some day internet
access may come to that level as well... but it may be 100 years from
now before that happens.

The biggest difference with electricity vs. internet service is that all
the devices for internet service require two-way communication.
Electricity is easy... you put it out on the wires, and people use it as
they need it. There are almost no limits on the amount they can use,
etc. Internet is different... the biggest difference is that every
device that is connected can become infected, have bad hardware, or
essentially take on a life of it's own... thus using more resources than
what anyone realizes. A user could leave a bittorrent service running
for 29 days before it's noticed... and then get a bill for $500 for that
month's service... and nobody is happy.

I think this is the reason that telco's and cableco's took so long to
get internet going... they didn't know how to deal with two-way
communication... and having a device on the connection that could cause
an entire block, switch, router, etc. to have problems was totally new
to them. Cable was easy when it was "download" only... same with
telephone... a direct line back to a switch in a CO is easy... either it
works or it doesn't.

Will the internet evolve to something like electricity? I believe the
answer is yes... but that is still a long time into the future... I
doubt many of us will see it in our lifetimes.

Travis
Microserv


Brian Webster wrote:
> I have been of the thought process that Broadband needs to be compared to
> electricity and telephone service expansion and deployments of the early
> 1900's. Here is a nice article that draws a direct comparison to
electricity
> (and municipal networks). Should be good food for though to all:
>
> The Killer App of 1900 
> by Glenn Fleishman , 12/11/2009, 11:18 AM
>
> It’s instructional to look back 100 years, not long after the first
> electrical generation plants were built to bring power to towns and
cities,
> to assess the situation we find ourselves in with broadband availability
> today.
>
> http://publicola.net/?p=20687
>
> Thank You,
> Brian Webster
>
>
> --
--
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> ---

Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us

[Tom DeReggi]

Agreed, Brett.

I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage, and 
then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that.
If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is "you didn't buy a service 
with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if you are down for 
a week, read the small print.".
And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? "Oh I used a low cost Cable 
service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the Cable cos?"

Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any other 
technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other than 
Wireless for connectivity to a tower?

Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive than a 
single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate lower 
roof right fees.
 
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


  - Original Message - 
  From: Bret Clark 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us


  Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers. We 
are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet links are 
wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if there is a 
problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without getting the run 
around from a telco.

  I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing 
telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their problem 
until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem and 90% of 
the time is was their problem to begin with! 

  Bret

  Tom Sharples wrote: 
I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here 
(Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The "fix" was 
that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to 
power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on 
for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That has 
proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since.

Tom S.


- Original Message - 
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us


  I have a tower down.  It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link.

Can't get to the main router at that local.

So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a
phone number for tech support.

IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I
couldn't find it.  So, I decided to try the online chat thingy.

Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code.
Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes.  Only to get an error.  So 
I
tried again, and again.  Finally I actually READ what the smallish print
said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them.  Hate to 
allow
any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where 
they
usually have to fill in all of them.  My fault for not reading the fine
print, but then again, I shouldn't have to

Next, I finally get a tech on the screen.  Well, kinda, the web site 
doesn't
have anything but an error at the top.  But the chat part eventually came 
up
and a tech was on the line.  We quickly established that the tech support
guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not.  ug

So, he gave me a phone number for tech support.

I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad 
though)
and then find out that that wasn't the right number for a business 
account.

Called the next number.  Sat on hold a bit longer this time, but still 
only
a few minutes.  We quickly got through all of the who are you type stuff.
Then the gal on the support end asked me to tell her what lights were on 
on
the modem.  "Um, I'm an hour and a half form there."  "Well, sir, I'm 
unable
help you unless someone is on at the site."

Sigh.  The home owner at this site is a snow bird and won't be home for
months yet.

The tech support people aren't able to tell if there is a connection or 
not.
It's not like this is a little, rinky dink company like mine.  This is a
HUGE telco!  Ug.

They won't even try to fix a business account that I pay $1200.00 per year
for.  Probably even more than that.  Amazing.

Have a great day, I know I will.
marlon




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---

Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us

[Mike Hammett]

I'm not sure that I agree that wireless has higher uptime than fiber.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Tom DeReggi" 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:40 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us

> Agreed, Brett.
>
> I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage, 
> and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that.
> If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is "you didn't buy a 
> service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if you 
> are down for a week, read the small print.".
> And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? "Oh I used a low cost 
> Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the 
> Cable cos?"
>
> Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any other 
> technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other 
> than Wireless for connectivity to a tower?
>
> Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive than 
> a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate 
> lower roof right fees.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
>  - Original Message - 
>  From: Bret Clark
>  To: WISPA General List
>  Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM
>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
>
>
>  Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers. 
> We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet 
> links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if 
> there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without 
> getting the run around from a telco.
>
>  I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing 
> telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their 
> problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem 
> and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with!
>
>  Bret
>
>  Tom Sharples wrote:
> I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here
> (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The "fix" was
> that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to
> power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on
> for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That 
> has
> proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since.
>
> Tom S.
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
>
>
>  I have a tower down.  It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link.
>
> Can't get to the main router at that local.
>
> So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a
> phone number for tech support.
>
> IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I
> couldn't find it.  So, I decided to try the online chat thingy.
>
> Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code.
> Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes.  Only to get an error.  So
> I
> tried again, and again.  Finally I actually READ what the smallish print
> said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them.  Hate to
> allow
> any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where
> they
> usually have to fill in all of them.  My fault for not reading the fine
> print, but then again, I shouldn't have to
>
> Next, I finally get a tech on the screen.  Well, kinda, the web site
> doesn't
> have anything but an error at the top.  But the chat part eventually came
> up
> and a tech was on the line.  We quickly established that the tech support
> guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not.  ug
>
> So, he gave me a phone number for tech support.
>
> I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad
> though)
> and then find out that that wasn't the right number for a business
> account.
>
> Called the next number.  Sat on hold a bit longer this time, but still
> only
> a few minutes.  We quickly got through all of the who are you type stuff.
> Then the gal on the support end asked me to tell her what lights were on
> on
> the modem.  "Um, I'm an hour and a half form there."  "Well, sir, I'm
> unable
> help you unless someone is on at the site."
>
> Sigh.  The home owner at this site is a snow bird and won't be home for
> months yet.
>
> The tech support people aren't able to tell if there is a connection or
> not.
> It's not like this is a little, rinky dink company like mine.  This is a
> HUGE telco!  Ug.
>
> They won't even try to fix a business account that I pay $1200.00 per 

[WISPA] Reboot the FCC !

[Gino Villarini]

Could be very useful for the WISP cause:

 

http://reboot.fcc.gov/home

 

Gino A. Villarini

g...@aeronetpr.com

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

787.273.4143

 




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Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us

[Stuart Pierce]

I'm not sure I agree either, but wireless obviously can't be cut. With that 
though, our fiber hasn't been out more than twice in 5 years.

-- Original Message --
From: "Mike Hammett" 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:15:16 -0600

>I'm not sure that I agree that wireless has higher uptime than fiber.
>
>
>-
>Mike Hammett
>Intelligent Computing Solutions
>http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
>--
>From: "Tom DeReggi" 
>Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:40 AM
>To: "WISPA General List" 
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
>
>> Agreed, Brett.
>>
>> I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage, 
>> and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that.
>> If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is "you didn't buy a 
>> service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if you 
>> are down for a week, read the small print.".
>> And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? "Oh I used a low cost 
>> Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the 
>> Cable cos?"
>>
>> Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any other 
>> technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other 
>> than Wireless for connectivity to a tower?
>>
>> Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive than 
>> a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate 
>> lower roof right fees.
>>
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>>  - Original Message - 
>>  From: Bret Clark
>>  To: WISPA General List
>>  Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
>>
>>
>>  Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers. 
>> We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet 
>> links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if 
>> there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without 
>> getting the run around from a telco.
>>
>>  I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing 
>> telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their 
>> problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem 
>> and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with!
>>
>>  Bret
>>
>>  Tom Sharples wrote:
>> I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here
>> (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The "fix" was
>> that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to
>> power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on
>> for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That 
>> has
>> proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since.
>>
>> Tom S.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM
>> Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
>>
>>
>>  I have a tower down.  It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link.
>>
>> Can't get to the main router at that local.
>>
>> So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a
>> phone number for tech support.
>>
>> IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I
>> couldn't find it.  So, I decided to try the online chat thingy.
>>
>> Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code.
>> Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes.  Only to get an error.  So
>> I
>> tried again, and again.  Finally I actually READ what the smallish print
>> said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them.  Hate to
>> allow
>> any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where
>> they
>> usually have to fill in all of them.  My fault for not reading the fine
>> print, but then again, I shouldn't have to
>>
>> Next, I finally get a tech on the screen.  Well, kinda, the web site
>> doesn't
>> have anything but an error at the top.  But the chat part eventually came
>> up
>> and a tech was on the line.  We quickly established that the tech support
>> guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not.  ug
>>
>> So, he gave me a phone number for tech support.
>>
>> I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad
>> though)
>> and then find out that that wasn't the right number for a business
>> account.
>>
>> Called the next number.  Sat on hold a bit longer this time, but still
>> only
>> a few minutes.  We quickly got through all of the who are you type stuff.
>> Then the gal on the support end asked me to tell her what lights were on
>> on
>> the modem.  "Um, I'm an hour and a half form there.

Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us

[Brian Webster]

Tom,
When you make the claim that wireless has more uptime than fiber, where 
do
you base those facts from and what types of fiber deployments are you
comparing it to? While I believe wireless is a great thing, one has to
wonder why a company who's name was MCI (Microwave Communications
Incorporated) eventually switched everything to fiber? I helped buy a bunch
of their old microwave tower sites after they were decommissioned. They
built them for capacity and did everything right. It just seems that
eventually the larger WISP's will need to consider the path that MCI took
over time and wonder if they won't evolve along a similar path. Now their
failure was not due to their choice of fiber over wireless and that's
another story altogether. Fiber deployments have been commonplace between
telephone switches for years now and I have never heard about reliability
issues and/or downtime problems with the fiber. Not that they don't happen
but when you average their uptime to their outages, I would think they have
some of the better reliability figures over any technology.



Thank You,
Brian Webster


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:40 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to
us


Agreed, Brett.

I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage, and
then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that.
If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is "you didn't buy a
service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if you
are down for a week, read the small print.".
And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? "Oh I used a low cost
Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the Cable
cos?"

Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any other
technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other than
Wireless for connectivity to a tower?

Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive than a
single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate lower
roof right fees.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


  - Original Message -
  From: Bret Clark
  To: WISPA General List
  Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us


  Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers.
We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet links
are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if there is
a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without getting the
run around from a telco.

  I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing
telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their
problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem
and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with!

  Bret

  Tom Sharples wrote:
I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here
(Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The "fix" was
that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to
power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on
for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That has
proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since.

Tom S.


- Original Message -
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us


  I have a tower down.  It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link.

Can't get to the main router at that local.

So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a
phone number for tech support.

IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I
couldn't find it.  So, I decided to try the online chat thingy.

Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code.
Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes.  Only to get an error.  So
I
tried again, and again.  Finally I actually READ what the smallish print
said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them.  Hate to
allow
any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where
they
usually have to fill in all of them.  My fault for not reading the fine
print, but then again, I shouldn't have to

Next, I finally get a tech on the screen.  Well, kinda, the web site
doesn't
have anything but an error at the top.  But the chat part eventually came
up
and a tech was on the line.  We quickly established that the tech support
guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not.  ug

So, he gave me a phone number for tech support.

I called that number

Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us

[Chuck Hogg]

Our backbone fiber has been down 2-3 times over 3 years.  One time was
so that they could upgrade the Fiber Switches, and the other times we
were only down a minute or two.

Regards,
Chuck Hogg
Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com
http://www.shelbybb.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Stuart Pierce
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:16 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to
us

I'm not sure I agree either, but wireless obviously can't be cut. With
that though, our fiber hasn't been out more than twice in 5 years.

-- Original Message --
From: "Mike Hammett" 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:15:16 -0600

>I'm not sure that I agree that wireless has higher uptime than fiber.
>
>
>-
>Mike Hammett
>Intelligent Computing Solutions
>http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
>--
>From: "Tom DeReggi" 
>Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:40 AM
>To: "WISPA General List" 
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to
us
>
>> Agreed, Brett.
>>
>> I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an
outage, 
>> and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that.
>> If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is "you didn't buy
a 
>> service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if
you 
>> are down for a week, read the small print.".
>> And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? "Oh I used a low
cost 
>> Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than
the 
>> Cable cos?"
>>
>> Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any
other 
>> technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything
other 
>> than Wireless for connectivity to a tower?
>>
>> Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive
than 
>> a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to
negotiate 
>> lower roof right fees.
>>
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>>  - Original Message - 
>>  From: Bret Clark
>>  To: WISPA General List
>>  Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors
to us
>>
>>
>>  Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our
towers. 
>> We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet

>> links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That
way if 
>> there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it
without 
>> getting the run around from a telco.
>>
>>  I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one
thing 
>> telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never
their 
>> problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their
problem 
>> and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with!
>>
>>  Bret
>>
>>  Tom Sharples wrote:
>> I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it
here
>> (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The
"fix" was
>> that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to
>> power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This
went on
>> for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable.
That 
>> has
>> proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since.
>>
>> Tom S.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM
>> Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
>>
>>
>>  I have a tower down.  It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link.
>>
>> Can't get to the main router at that local.
>>
>> So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go
find a
>> phone number for tech support.
>>
>> IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web
site, I
>> couldn't find it.  So, I decided to try the online chat thingy.
>>
>> Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip
code.
>> Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes.  Only to get an
error.  So
>> I
>> tried again, and again.  Finally I actually READ what the smallish
print
>> said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them.  Hate to
>> allow
>> any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field
where
>> they
>> usually have to fill in all of them.  My fault for not reading the
fine
>> print, but then again, I shouldn't have to
>>
>> Next, I finally get a tech on the screen.  Well, kinda, the web site
>> doesn't
>> have anything but an error at the top.  But the chat part eventually
came
>> up
>> and a tech was on the line.  We quickly established that the tech
support
>> guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or 

Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us

[Bret Clark]

I would agree in a heartbeat...we've actually won customers because of
outages with DS3's and T1's that were run on fiber.  When the
historical ice storm came through New England just over a year ago, we
had 100% uptime with our infrastructure while Fairpoint and Comcast was
down all over the place including their fiber runs. 

Stuart Pierce wrote:

  I'm not sure I agree either, but wireless obviously can't be cut. With that though, our fiber hasn't been out more than twice in 5 years.

-- Original Message --
From: "Mike Hammett" 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:15:16 -0600

  
  
I'm not sure that I agree that wireless has higher uptime than fiber.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Tom DeReggi" 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:40 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us



  Agreed, Brett.

I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage, 
and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that.
If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is "you didn't buy a 
service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if you 
are down for a week, read the small print.".
And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? "Oh I used a low cost 
Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the 
Cable cos?"

Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any other 
technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other 
than Wireless for connectivity to a tower?

Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive than 
a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate 
lower roof right fees.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message - 
 From: Bret Clark
 To: WISPA General List
 Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us


 Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our towers. 
We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet 
links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way if 
there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without 
getting the run around from a telco.

 I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing 
telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their 
problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their problem 
and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with!

 Bret

 Tom Sharples wrote:
I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here
(Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The "fix" was
that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to
power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went on
for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That 
has
proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since.

Tom S.


- Original Message - 
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us


 I have a tower down.  It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link.

Can't get to the main router at that local.

So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a
phone number for tech support.

IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site, I
couldn't find it.  So, I decided to try the online chat thingy.

Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code.
Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes.  Only to get an error.  So
I
tried again, and again.  Finally I actually READ what the smallish print
said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them.  Hate to
allow
any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where
they
usually have to fill in all of them.  My fault for not reading the fine
print, but then again, I shouldn't have to

Next, I finally get a tech on the screen.  Well, kinda, the web site
doesn't
have anything but an error at the top.  But the chat part eventually came
up
and a tech was on the line.  We quickly established that the tech support
guy wasn't able to see if there was a dsl connection or not.  ug

So, he gave me a phone number for tech support.

I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad
though)
and then find out that that wasn't the right number for a business
account.

Called the next number.  Sat on hold a bit longer this time, but still
only
a few minutes.  We quickly got through all of the who are you type stuff.
Then the gal on the support end asked me to tell

Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us

[Bret Clark]

Brian Webster wrote:
> Fiber deployments have been commonplace between
> telephone switches for years now and I have never heard about reliability
> issues and/or downtime problems with the fiber. Not that they don't happen
> but when you average their uptime to their outages, I would think they have
> some of the better reliability figures over any technology.
>   

Sure, because they are running a SONET network and fiber breaks are 
rather common, but when you have a secondary path then you don't hear 
about it. Build a wireless infrastructure the same way with redundancy 
and you'll have the same uptime.



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Re: [WISPA] Broadband compared to electricity of the early 1900's

[Travis Johnson]

Hi,

One difference is they are not bringing in big electrical power "in the 
hopes" that someone will connect. They don't bring anything into these 
rural areas until AFTER you (or someone else) has committed to using 
that much service.

It would be like having a business call and say "I need a 100Mbps 
connection to the internet and I will pay your normal, posted pricing no 
questions asked.". Who here couldn't make that happen, regardless of the 
location? :)

Travis
Microserv


Brian Webster wrote:
> Travis,
>   The electrical grid is not as easy to manage and build as some people 
> might
> think, even if it is one way so to speak. Found this out when I was building
> rural cellular towers. When we would pull service to a new site it would be
> built for 800-1200 amps capacity. In some parts of the country when we asked
> the power company to plan for that they would go crazy. In parts of
> Washington and Oregon we had to submit very sophisticated load planning
> documents. In some cases they stated they could not deliver the amount of
> service for the planned capacity the tower was built for. We had seen
> carriers easily max out a 200 amp service in summer months with their big
> shelters and HVAC units. In some cases AT&T or Nextel had to pull in a
> second 200 amp service. Telling the power companies this in the rural areas
> made them nervous. I eventually got to speak with one of the engineers, he
> explained the in some places the grid was not built to handle large
> commercial loads like what we had planned and it meant major construction
> and upgrades for them to deliver that level of demand.
>   The comparison to the electrical grid in that article is more to the 
> point
> of how they had the same challenges as we do with broadband, getting service
> to rural areas they could not cost justify the build out. More importantly
> back when they had the arguments about building the electrical
> infrastructure, people had no concept what technologies would evolve using
> electricity. They just thought it was going to bring lights. Look at all of
> the things that developed in the last 100 years that required the use of
> electricity. Now imagine (or try to) what will evolve from the use of the
> internet in the next 80 years and beyond. I'll be the first to admit I have
> been wrong about many technologies or things that I thought were not
> possible just a few years ago. I'm a fool if I think things can't or won't
> change over time.
>
>
>
> Thank You,
> Brian Webster
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
> Behalf Of Travis Johnson
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:43 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband compared to electricity of the early
> 1900's
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I've kept this email since you sent it out. I just now read the article,
> and I agree with many things stated there. About two days before you
> sent this article, it came to my mind (because there was a discussion
> about metered billing) that electricity is metered... yet, it's so cheap
> now that people don't worry about leaving their TV or lights on while
> they are gone from the house for a few hours. I think some day internet
> access may come to that level as well... but it may be 100 years from
> now before that happens.
>
> The biggest difference with electricity vs. internet service is that all
> the devices for internet service require two-way communication.
> Electricity is easy... you put it out on the wires, and people use it as
> they need it. There are almost no limits on the amount they can use,
> etc. Internet is different... the biggest difference is that every
> device that is connected can become infected, have bad hardware, or
> essentially take on a life of it's own... thus using more resources than
> what anyone realizes. A user could leave a bittorrent service running
> for 29 days before it's noticed... and then get a bill for $500 for that
> month's service... and nobody is happy.
>
> I think this is the reason that telco's and cableco's took so long to
> get internet going... they didn't know how to deal with two-way
> communication... and having a device on the connection that could cause
> an entire block, switch, router, etc. to have problems was totally new
> to them. Cable was easy when it was "download" only... same with
> telephone... a direct line back to a switch in a CO is easy... either it
> works or it doesn't.
>
> Will the internet evolve to something like electricity? I believe the
> answer is yes... but that is still a long time into the future... I
> doubt many of us will see it in our lifetimes.
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
>
> Brian Webster wrote:
>   
>> I have been of the thought process that Broadband needs to be compared to
>> electricity and telephone service expansion and deployments of the early
>> 1900's. Here is a nice article that draws a direct comparison to
>> 
> electricity
> 

Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?

[Jayson Baker]

MikroTik firewall filter rule using the all-p2p matcher and drop as action?

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 4:34 AM, Roman  wrote:

> Dear readers,
>
> Do you have any experience with successful blocking of P2P (eDonkey,
> Torrents etc.) traffic in your wireless networks?
>
> Any user who uses torrent client at his PC can effectively consume a lot of
> bandwidth of Wi-Fi access point, leaving other honest users with small
> portion of throughput. Port blocking does not help because nowadays P2P
> clients use random ports, encryption and other means to hide traffic
> patterns. I suppose that only one distinctive feature of such traffic
> exists: its ability to consume effective bandwidth.
>
> Do you happen to know or use any traffic shaping tools which can limit
> throughput per user?
> Thank you in advance for any thoghts, ideas etc...
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



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Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us

[Patrick Shoemaker]

Exactly. The terms "wireless" and "fiber" are too broad to make any 
valid reliability comparison without more specifics.

Comparing a licensed point to point microwave system with redundant 
paths, spatial diversity, standby power, and a tower structure rated to 
150 MPH to an aerial fiber strand running through the woods in northeast 
ice storm territory would lead one to believe that wireless is the more 
reliable technology.

Comparing a 2.4 GHz 802.11 link with grid antennas shooting some trees 
in icy territory to a SONET ring connecting two metro area datacenters 
would lead one to believe that fiber is the more reliable technology.

Unfortunately, this distinction is not made by the general public, and 
it makes the sales process for business grade fixed wireless services 
more difficult.

Patrick Shoemaker
Vector Data Systems LLC
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
office: (301) 358-1690 x36
http://www.vectordatasystems.com


Bret Clark wrote:
> Brian Webster wrote:
>> Fiber deployments have been commonplace between
>> telephone switches for years now and I have never heard about reliability
>> issues and/or downtime problems with the fiber. Not that they don't happen
>> but when you average their uptime to their outages, I would think they have
>> some of the better reliability figures over any technology.
>>   
> 
> Sure, because they are running a SONET network and fiber breaks are 
> rather common, but when you have a secondary path then you don't hear 
> about it. Build a wireless infrastructure the same way with redundancy 
> and you'll have the same uptime.
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



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Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?

[Nick Olsen]

You'll never catch everything. Once its encrypted its really hard to 
block.
What your better off doing is blocking what you can, And when you have a 
problem, Queue that user down to something you see acceptable. I've had 
people yell and scream that you can't do this, Like comcast got nailed for. 
But the catch is, They were doing it all the time. Not only when there was 
congestion/high latency on the network.

Nick Olsen
Brevard Wireless
(321) 205-1100 x106




From: "Jayson Baker" 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:39 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?

MikroTik firewall filter rule using the all-p2p matcher and drop as 
action?

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 4:34 AM, Roman  wrote:

> Dear readers,
>
> Do you have any experience with successful blocking of P2P (eDonkey,
> Torrents etc.) traffic in your wireless networks?
>
> Any user who uses torrent client at his PC can effectively consume a lot 
of
> bandwidth of Wi-Fi access point, leaving other honest users with small
> portion of throughput. Port blocking does not help because nowadays P2P
> clients use random ports, encryption and other means to hide traffic
> patterns. I suppose that only one distinctive feature of such traffic
> exists: its ability to consume effective bandwidth.
>
> Do you happen to know or use any traffic shaping tools which can limit
> throughput per user?
> Thank you in advance for any thoghts, ideas etc...
>
>
>
> 


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 


>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



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Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor with UBNT radios or Mikrotik?

[Data Technology]

Yes you can.  You have to move the ground jumper.  Just loosen the nuts 
and move the jumper to the hole with no copper.
The jumper will short out the + voltage to ground.

LaRoy McCann
Data Technology


Scott Carullo wrote:
> Not sure if it matters that the voltage + and - are swapped...
>
> Thanks
>
> Scott Carullo
> Brevard Wireless
> 321-205-1100 x102
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> -- 
>
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by the Data Technology
> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
>
>
>   




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[WISPA] Harris-Stratex ptmp 3.65 Wimax Base

[Gino Villarini]

Is this Harris made or OEM?

 

http://tinyurl.com/ycqxay

 

 

Gino A. Villarini

g...@aeronetpr.com

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

787.273.4143

 




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Re: [WISPA] Harris-Stratex ptmp 3.65 Wimax Base

[Patrick Leary]

Harris bought Telsima, then Harris split off the Harris-Stratex side,
which now holds all the wireless ptp (stratex side) and pmp (Telsima
side). So it is not an OEM but rather an acquired unit. 


Patrick Leary
Aperto Networks
813.426.4230 mobile

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:20 AM
To: WISPA General List; motor...@afmug.com
Subject: [WISPA] Harris-Stratex ptmp 3.65 Wimax Base

Is this Harris made or OEM?

 

http://tinyurl.com/ycqxay

 

 

Gino A. Villarini

g...@aeronetpr.com

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

787.273.4143

 





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Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us

[Brad Belton]

Agreed, Patrick.

As a business only provider many of our customers that bring in a
10-50-100Mbps or higher microwave connection in from us are doing so to
complement their existing fiber connection(s).  

As time progresses some of those customers end up favoring our microwave
connection over their fiber connection.  Sometimes it's because we're better
peered and have fewer "hops" or lower latency other times it's simply
because we have fewer points of failure and therefore our availability is
higher.

It all comes back to those three ever important sticking points:  Location -
Location - Location

Best,


Brad
 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Patrick Shoemaker
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:46 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us

Exactly. The terms "wireless" and "fiber" are too broad to make any 
valid reliability comparison without more specifics.

Comparing a licensed point to point microwave system with redundant 
paths, spatial diversity, standby power, and a tower structure rated to 
150 MPH to an aerial fiber strand running through the woods in northeast 
ice storm territory would lead one to believe that wireless is the more 
reliable technology.

Comparing a 2.4 GHz 802.11 link with grid antennas shooting some trees 
in icy territory to a SONET ring connecting two metro area datacenters 
would lead one to believe that fiber is the more reliable technology.

Unfortunately, this distinction is not made by the general public, and 
it makes the sales process for business grade fixed wireless services 
more difficult.

Patrick Shoemaker
Vector Data Systems LLC
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
office: (301) 358-1690 x36
http://www.vectordatasystems.com


Bret Clark wrote:
> Brian Webster wrote:
>> Fiber deployments have been commonplace between
>> telephone switches for years now and I have never heard about reliability
>> issues and/or downtime problems with the fiber. Not that they don't
happen
>> but when you average their uptime to their outages, I would think they
have
>> some of the better reliability figures over any technology.
>>   
> 
> Sure, because they are running a SONET network and fiber breaks are 
> rather common, but when you have a secondary path then you don't hear 
> about it. Build a wireless infrastructure the same way with redundancy 
> and you'll have the same uptime.
> 
> 
>


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Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us

[Tom DeReggi]

Let me clarify.

I'm referring to Metro-E deployment.
I'm not refering to the physical medium "glass filled wire", which of course 
has a huge long reliable life.

Metro-E typically runs from commercial building to commercial building. Each 
Hop is a potential failure point.
Metro-E tends to be a Sequential or In-Series deployment, where there are 
many potential failure points between Start and End Point of a desired link.
Most Metro-E Deployments whether Layer3 or Layer2,  tend to terminate 
everything at the end of the line at a central place, so there is often much 
shared infrastructure on the way to the far end.infrastructure.
The fact that Fiber can extend in 20-40 mile incrememnts without power is 
irrelevent when its most cost viable for Metro-E providers to stop at each 
building along the path on the way.

What Fiber Providers cant control (no better than us), is the rules and 
decissions Building Owners need to make to maintain their building and 
power.  For example, recently, there was a water leak in a building, the 
Building protocol was Turn off power to the electrical rooms in the building 
until leak fixed.  The building owner could care less that the Fiber 
infrastructure would be turned off, becaue they had a bigger responsibility 
to the maintenance and safety of their Half-Billion dollar commercial office 
building. So, Fiber routers got powered off and service went down.  These 
type things happen ALL the time.  At one building, it might only happen 2-3 
times over 5 years, but multiply that times 20 buildings in-line path, and 
that becomes 40-60 outages in 5 years.

With Wireless PTP, we tend to go longer distances before a hop is incurred, 
and minimizing the number of buildings in-line that could have an effect on 
whether we had power or not to our gear.

If we compare RF to Light, the difference in uptiem by technology isavery 
insignificant amount even if Fiber better. But if we compare deployment its 
not so insignificant to compare wireless with 2-3 buildings inline to fiber 
10-20 buildings inline.

The fact is, fiber does have the ability to deploy redundant technology, but 
so does Wireless. And Fiber carriers bypass redundancy in many cases for the 
same reasons Wireless carriers do, to reduce cost, add simplicity for 
maintenance, and capacity planning/control.  What you see happening is Fiber 
carriers using one fiber strand, and then putting EVERYTHING on that one 
strand of Fiber. They do this because they often dont own the fiber, and 
have to buy Dark Fiber, and they pay per strand. Fiber deployments are not 
automatically redundant as much as people think, when considering all 
networking components. For example, LAyer2, Layer3, OSPF, and BGP all  have 
to function both waysacross all redundant paths for all customers.

When there are one or two hops inline with Wireless, its so much easier and 
less disruptive to verify and test that redundancy doesactually work in a 
failure situatuation. With Fiber carriers it is to risky to test redundant 
configs because to many people are sharing the infrastructure and it crosses 
so many hops. The Fiber carriers make config mistakes. And when they share 
so much infrastructure, its easy to harm another customer's config, when 
configuring new customers.

I can not give national data for all carriers deployment. BUT from our 
experience on our network the most reliable network components are our 
wireless PTP links. The largest cause is Power. One of the reasons we did 
not increase the uptime of our wireless towers fed by fiber was that it did 
no good to have power systems that gave uptimes larger than the uptime 
delivered by our fiber carrier's power systems.  The truth is batteries 
fail, and nobody knows it until a failure occurs, and the 4 hour uptimes 
doesn't occur. The more buildings inline, the more chances one of the 
buildings inline is effected by a power outage somewhere.

The number we use is that when one of our end users experiences an outage it 
is 4x more likely it is from a fiber related outage, not from our Metro 
Wireless back haul.

I'll give a real world example, We provide wholesale to a WISP in DC. I'm 
estimating that they had near 8 outages in two years if not more, and all 
were related to fiber. The DragonWave wireless link and Tlink-45 inline 
serving them the last mile has not failed once in the same time.

Sure I'll agree that Long Haul Fiber is likely more reliable, because it is 
built to be. But Metro-Fiber and FTTH is not built to that same spec most of 
the time.

One of the bigger mistakes I made is I paid for fiber instead of Licensed 
links early on. (ACtually it was not a mistake, it was a lack of upfront 
cash/pitol at the time). I lost a lot of business because I relied on Fiber 
Metrol Transports, that could not deliver the SLA or Uptime anywhere near 
the expectations that I set for my Wireless transport network.  EVEN my 
Trango 5830s, I had PTP links that never had a hick

Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us

[Tom DeReggi]

The thing is there are cases or palces where Wireless cant be made reliable 
for a specific situations that limit that location. People will remember 
those rare cases and associate them with Wireless in general,
 without understanding that taht is a different situation and not the norm. 
People blaim Wireless or the wireless provider for a lot, but its rarely the 
Wireless's fault.

You'd also be surprised how often Sonet Rings wont properly route the other 
direction around the ring, when a failure occurs, based on the type of 
failure. The Fiber Ring is a physical redundancy method, but it doesn't mean 
that the intelligence part over top it will properly direct the traffic.

Its also hard to get a fiber carrier to truthfully disclose the full inner 
workings of their network, for the buyer to verify a claimed redundant path 
will truly offer full redundancy.
The only way to know for sure, and guarantee it wont change over time, is to 
do it yourself, or work with someone small enough who is not afraid to show 
the proof.

For example, for some of my customers, I'll map out hop per hop the path 
their data will go both primary and backup path.  I'm not saying I give 
redunancy ever, because there are many places my network is not redundant. 
But I could built it redundant and PROVE IT, when customers were willing to 
pay for that.

For Fiber,. If I want guaranteed redundant Fiber transport paths, they will 
charge me for two circuits, double the price. And I could get better 
diversity if I jsut deployed two wireless links to diverse paths.

So To compare reliabilty of Wireless to Fiber, its really only an apples to 
apples comparison if we compare a single wireless link to a  non-redundant 
single fiber path.

For example, a Wireless ring could jsut as equally be created to compare 
against a Sonet ring.

At the end of the day, the only thing Fiber gives us is more capacity when 
that capacity is actually needed.
Unless of course, LOS cant be achieved, or distance to long for the 
technology.

But the worst travisty in public perception is that the public often 
associates Wireless with the lowest technology capabilty. Fixed PTP wireless 
should NOT be bundled into the same category as PtMP Wifi.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Patrick Shoemaker" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us


> Exactly. The terms "wireless" and "fiber" are too broad to make any
> valid reliability comparison without more specifics.
>
> Comparing a licensed point to point microwave system with redundant
> paths, spatial diversity, standby power, and a tower structure rated to
> 150 MPH to an aerial fiber strand running through the woods in northeast
> ice storm territory would lead one to believe that wireless is the more
> reliable technology.
>
> Comparing a 2.4 GHz 802.11 link with grid antennas shooting some trees
> in icy territory to a SONET ring connecting two metro area datacenters
> would lead one to believe that fiber is the more reliable technology.
>
> Unfortunately, this distinction is not made by the general public, and
> it makes the sales process for business grade fixed wireless services
> more difficult.
>
> Patrick Shoemaker
> Vector Data Systems LLC
> shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
> office: (301) 358-1690 x36
> http://www.vectordatasystems.com
>
>
> Bret Clark wrote:
>> Brian Webster wrote:
>>> Fiber deployments have been commonplace between
>>> telephone switches for years now and I have never heard about 
>>> reliability
>>> issues and/or downtime problems with the fiber. Not that they don't 
>>> happen
>>> but when you average their uptime to their outages, I would think they 
>>> have
>>> some of the better reliability figures over any technology.
>>>
>>
>> Sure, because they are running a SONET network and fiber breaks are
>> rather common, but when you have a secondary path then you don't hear
>> about it. Build a wireless infrastructure the same way with redundancy
>> and you'll have the same uptime.
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
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>>
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>

Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor with UBNT radios or Mikrotik?

[Tom DeReggi]

The 600SSB still clamps at 35V like the 300SS, right?

If so, make sure you are using Less than 35V Mikrotiks units and not 48V 
configurations.

As an alternative Citel also makes a nice outdoor mountable unit 
specifically for wifi pin-outs, about the same cost ($25ish).
They have both 60Vand 35V models.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Data Technology" 
To: ; "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor with 
UBNT radios or Mikrotik?


> Yes you can.  You have to move the ground jumper.  Just loosen the nuts
> and move the jumper to the hole with no copper.
> The jumper will short out the + voltage to ground.
>
> LaRoy McCann
> Data Technology
>
>
> Scott Carullo wrote:
>> Not sure if it matters that the voltage + and - are swapped...
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Scott Carullo
>> Brevard Wireless
>> 321-205-1100 x102
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
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>>
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>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
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>> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> 
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> 
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>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us

[Richey]

Fiber doesn't suffer from interference or have a low number of frequencies
you can use at one location. 

Richey

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Stuart Pierce
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:16 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us

I'm not sure I agree either, but wireless obviously can't be cut. With that
though, our fiber hasn't been out more than twice in 5 years.

-- Original Message --
From: "Mike Hammett" 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:15:16 -0600

>I'm not sure that I agree that wireless has higher uptime than fiber.
>
>
>-
>Mike Hammett
>Intelligent Computing Solutions
>http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
>--
>From: "Tom DeReggi" 
>Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:40 AM
>To: "WISPA General List" 
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to 
>us
>
>> Agreed, Brett.
>>
>> I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an 
>> outage, and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after
that.
>> If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is "you didn't buy 
>> a service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less 
>> if you are down for a week, read the small print.".
>> And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? "Oh I used a low 
>> cost Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service 
>> than the Cable cos?"
>>
>> Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any 
>> other technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use 
>> anything other than Wireless for connectivity to a tower?
>>
>> Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive 
>> than a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to 
>> negotiate lower roof right fees.
>>
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>>  - Original Message -
>>  From: Bret Clark
>>  To: WISPA General List
>>  Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors 
>> to us
>>
>>
>>  Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our
towers. 
>> We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet 
>> links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That 
>> way if there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it 
>> without getting the run around from a telco.
>>
>>  I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one 
>> thing telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was 
>> never their problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it 
>> was their problem and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with!
>>
>>  Bret
>>
>>  Tom Sharples wrote:
>> I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it 
>> here (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The 
>> "fix" was that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out 
>> a tech to power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood 
>> dslam. This went on for a few months, until I switched to Comcast 
>> business-class cable. That has proven to be extremely reliable, and I 
>> haven't looked back since.
>>
>> Tom S.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM
>> Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
>>
>>
>>  I have a tower down.  It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link.
>>
>> Can't get to the main router at that local.
>>
>> So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go 
>> find a phone number for tech support.
>>
>> IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web 
>> site, I couldn't find it.  So, I decided to try the online chat thingy.
>>
>> Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip code.
>> Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes.  Only to get an 
>> error.  So I tried again, and again.  Finally I actually READ what 
>> the smallish print said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not 
>> all of them.  Hate to allow any answer to work rather than make 
>> people only fill in one field where they usually have to fill in all 
>> of them.  My fault for not reading the fine print, but then again, I 
>> shouldn't have to
>>
>> Next, I finally get a tech on the screen.  Well, kinda, the web site 
>> doesn't have anything but an error at the top.  But the chat part 
>> eventually came up and a tech was on the line.  We quickly 
>> established that the tech support guy wasn't able to see if there was 
>> a dsl connection or not.  ug
>>
>> So, he gave me a phone number for tech support.
>>
>> I called that number only to sit on hold for a while (not t bad
>>

Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us

[Mike Hammett]

I am planning to have access to fiber throughout an area that's probably 3x 
to 4x my current coverage area.  I'll build my network around that fiber. 
However, I will retain wireless PtP links for redundancy.  That cuts down on 
the need to consume valuable spectrum for primary backhaul links.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Tom DeReggi" 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:48 AM
To: ; "WISPA General List" 

Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us

> Let me clarify.
>
> I'm referring to Metro-E deployment.
> I'm not refering to the physical medium "glass filled wire", which of 
> course
> has a huge long reliable life.
>
> Metro-E typically runs from commercial building to commercial building. 
> Each
> Hop is a potential failure point.
> Metro-E tends to be a Sequential or In-Series deployment, where there are
> many potential failure points between Start and End Point of a desired 
> link.
> Most Metro-E Deployments whether Layer3 or Layer2,  tend to terminate
> everything at the end of the line at a central place, so there is often 
> much
> shared infrastructure on the way to the far end.infrastructure.
> The fact that Fiber can extend in 20-40 mile incrememnts without power is
> irrelevent when its most cost viable for Metro-E providers to stop at each
> building along the path on the way.
>
> What Fiber Providers cant control (no better than us), is the rules and
> decissions Building Owners need to make to maintain their building and
> power.  For example, recently, there was a water leak in a building, the
> Building protocol was Turn off power to the electrical rooms in the 
> building
> until leak fixed.  The building owner could care less that the Fiber
> infrastructure would be turned off, becaue they had a bigger 
> responsibility
> to the maintenance and safety of their Half-Billion dollar commercial 
> office
> building. So, Fiber routers got powered off and service went down.  These
> type things happen ALL the time.  At one building, it might only happen 
> 2-3
> times over 5 years, but multiply that times 20 buildings in-line path, and
> that becomes 40-60 outages in 5 years.
>
> With Wireless PTP, we tend to go longer distances before a hop is 
> incurred,
> and minimizing the number of buildings in-line that could have an effect 
> on
> whether we had power or not to our gear.
>
> If we compare RF to Light, the difference in uptiem by technology isavery
> insignificant amount even if Fiber better. But if we compare deployment 
> its
> not so insignificant to compare wireless with 2-3 buildings inline to 
> fiber
> 10-20 buildings inline.
>
> The fact is, fiber does have the ability to deploy redundant technology, 
> but
> so does Wireless. And Fiber carriers bypass redundancy in many cases for 
> the
> same reasons Wireless carriers do, to reduce cost, add simplicity for
> maintenance, and capacity planning/control.  What you see happening is 
> Fiber
> carriers using one fiber strand, and then putting EVERYTHING on that one
> strand of Fiber. They do this because they often dont own the fiber, and
> have to buy Dark Fiber, and they pay per strand. Fiber deployments are not
> automatically redundant as much as people think, when considering all
> networking components. For example, LAyer2, Layer3, OSPF, and BGP all 
> have
> to function both waysacross all redundant paths for all customers.
>
> When there are one or two hops inline with Wireless, its so much easier 
> and
> less disruptive to verify and test that redundancy doesactually work in a
> failure situatuation. With Fiber carriers it is to risky to test redundant
> configs because to many people are sharing the infrastructure and it 
> crosses
> so many hops. The Fiber carriers make config mistakes. And when they share
> so much infrastructure, its easy to harm another customer's config, when
> configuring new customers.
>
> I can not give national data for all carriers deployment. BUT from our
> experience on our network the most reliable network components are our
> wireless PTP links. The largest cause is Power. One of the reasons we did
> not increase the uptime of our wireless towers fed by fiber was that it 
> did
> no good to have power systems that gave uptimes larger than the uptime
> delivered by our fiber carrier's power systems.  The truth is batteries
> fail, and nobody knows it until a failure occurs, and the 4 hour uptimes
> doesn't occur. The more buildings inline, the more chances one of the
> buildings inline is effected by a power outage somewhere.
>
> The number we use is that when one of our end users experiences an outage 
> it
> is 4x more likely it is from a fiber related outage, not from our Metro
> Wireless back haul.
>
> I'll give a real world example, We provide wholesale to a WISP in DC. I'm
> estimating that they had near 8 outages in two years if not more, and

Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor with UBNT radios or Mikrotik?

[Data Technology]

Good point about the voltage. 
I use them mostly for UBNT CPE.  What MT units I used them with were 18 
or 24V.



Tom DeReggi wrote:
> The 600SSB still clamps at 35V like the 300SS, right?
>
> If so, make sure you are using Less than 35V Mikrotiks units and not 48V 
> configurations.
>
> As an alternative Citel also makes a nice outdoor mountable unit 
> specifically for wifi pin-outs, about the same cost ($25ish).
> They have both 60Vand 35V models.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Data Technology" 
> To: ; "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor with 
> UBNT radios or Mikrotik?
>
>
>   
>> Yes you can.  You have to move the ground jumper.  Just loosen the nuts
>> and move the jumper to the hole with no copper.
>> The jumper will short out the + voltage to ground.
>>
>> LaRoy McCann
>> Data Technology
>>
>>
>> Scott Carullo wrote:
>> 
>>> Not sure if it matters that the voltage + and - are swapped...
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Scott Carullo
>>> Brevard Wireless
>>> 321-205-1100 x102
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>>> dangerous content by the Data Technology
>>> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>
>> 
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>> 
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>> Checked by AVG.
>> Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date: 
>> 5/15/2009 6:16 AM
>>
>>
>> 
>
>
>
> 
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> 
>  
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Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor with UBNT radios or Mikrotik?

[Josh Luthman]

I know it isn't said very often but the voltages for the devices we commonly
use are

Canopy 12-24v
Nano/Locostations 12-25v
MT 4xx 10-28v

Cordless drill battery 18-22v

Having a mobile POE priceless

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
--- Albert Einstein


On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Data Technology  wrote:

> Good point about the voltage.
> I use them mostly for UBNT CPE.  What MT units I used them with were 18
> or 24V.
>
>
>
> Tom DeReggi wrote:
> > The 600SSB still clamps at 35V like the 300SS, right?
> >
> > If so, make sure you are using Less than 35V Mikrotiks units and not 48V
> > configurations.
> >
> > As an alternative Citel also makes a nice outdoor mountable unit
> > specifically for wifi pin-outs, about the same cost ($25ish).
> > They have both 60Vand 35V models.
> >
> > Tom DeReggi
> > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Data Technology" 
> > To: ; "WISPA General List" <
> wireless@wispa.org>
> > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:55 AM
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor
> with
> > UBNT radios or Mikrotik?
> >
> >
> >
> >> Yes you can.  You have to move the ground jumper.  Just loosen the nuts
> >> and move the jumper to the hole with no copper.
> >> The jumper will short out the + voltage to ground.
> >>
> >> LaRoy McCann
> >> Data Technology
> >>
> >>
> >> Scott Carullo wrote:
> >>
> >>> Not sure if it matters that the voltage + and - are swapped...
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> Scott Carullo
> >>> Brevard Wireless
> >>> 321-205-1100 x102
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> 
> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >>> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>>
> 
> >>>
> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>>
> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>>
> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> >>> dangerous content by the Data Technology
> >>> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
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Re: [WISPA] Broadband compared to electricity of the early 1900's

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Actually the broken device example happens with electricity too.

There can be a failed hot water heater.  Shorted wires etc. that run the 
bill way up.

The difference is that people don't leave their hair dryer on 24/7.  They 
know it uses a lot of resources so they turn it off.

They will also install heat pumps instead of regular ol' furnaces.  They 
will insulate a house to better conserve electricity, therefore money.

With our telecom model of all you can eat for one flat price there is NO 
incentive for efficiency.  People don't care how bad the encryption 
mechanisms are for that movie they want to download.  They don't care how 
big that Microsoft update is etc.  The ONLY ones paying attention to those 
things are the dial-up users, they have no choice but to watch their usage.

Eventually one of two things has to happen.  Bandwidth has to become free, 
you just hook into the system, pay a flat rate and use all you could 
possibly want.  Or it'll be a cost per unit basis, like long distance used 
to be.  And, ahem, everything else in life already is.

Know what I think the REAL driver for pay for use will be?  Better privacy 
laws.  When companies can no longer data mine your activities and use that 
for a source of income they'll have to find a better way to make money off 
of the consumer.

Shrug.  Something will have to give in the next 5 years.

Who knows, maybe some radio company will finally come up with a really good 
mechanism for spectrum sharing and pushing bandwidth.  Then GIVE that 
technology to the entire industry.  How cool would it be to be able to get 
rid of the wi-fi mechanism while keeping the current hardware pricing 
models.

Here's one for you.  I think we should push the FCC to allow AP sync, like 
what can be done via 5 gig.  We should also push for wi-fi radios to include 
a sync mechanism in them so that we can more effectively avoid interference. 
Especially with ourselves on our own towers.

pondering
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Travis Johnson" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 9:42 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Broadband compared to electricity of the early 1900's


Hi,

I've kept this email since you sent it out. I just now read the article,
and I agree with many things stated there. About two days before you
sent this article, it came to my mind (because there was a discussion
about metered billing) that electricity is metered... yet, it's so cheap
now that people don't worry about leaving their TV or lights on while
they are gone from the house for a few hours. I think some day internet
access may come to that level as well... but it may be 100 years from
now before that happens.

The biggest difference with electricity vs. internet service is that all
the devices for internet service require two-way communication.
Electricity is easy... you put it out on the wires, and people use it as
they need it. There are almost no limits on the amount they can use,
etc. Internet is different... the biggest difference is that every
device that is connected can become infected, have bad hardware, or
essentially take on a life of it's own... thus using more resources than
what anyone realizes. A user could leave a bittorrent service running
for 29 days before it's noticed... and then get a bill for $500 for that
month's service... and nobody is happy.

I think this is the reason that telco's and cableco's took so long to
get internet going... they didn't know how to deal with two-way
communication... and having a device on the connection that could cause
an entire block, switch, router, etc. to have problems was totally new
to them. Cable was easy when it was "download" only... same with
telephone... a direct line back to a switch in a CO is easy... either it
works or it doesn't.

Will the internet evolve to something like electricity? I believe the
answer is yes... but that is still a long time into the future... I
doubt many of us will see it in our lifetimes.

Travis
Microserv


Brian Webster wrote:
> I have been of the thought process that Broadband needs to be compared to
> electricity and telephone service expansion and deployments of the early
> 1900's. Here is a nice article that draws a direct comparison to 
> electricity
> (and municipal networks). Should be good food for though to all:
>
> The Killer App of 1900 
> by Glenn Fleishman , 12/11/2009, 11:18 AM
>
> It’s instructional to look back 100 years, not long after the first
> electrical generation plants were built to bring power to towns and 
> cities,
> to assess the situation we find ourselves in with broadband availability
> today.
>
> http://publicola.net/?p=20687
>
> Thank You,
> Brian Webster
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless Lis

Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Hiya Roman,

We bill per bit.  That way we don't care what the customer is doing, all 
we're worried about is how much they uses.  Run edonkey and you'll get an 
extra bill.  Download Netflix and you'll get an extra bill etc.

MOST of the time we catch virus's for our customers.  It's actually a pretty 
good sales tool.  Netflix is changing that somewhat though.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Roman" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 3:34 AM
Subject: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?


> Dear readers,
>
> Do you have any experience with successful blocking of P2P (eDonkey,
> Torrents etc.) traffic in your wireless networks?
>
> Any user who uses torrent client at his PC can effectively consume a lot 
> of
> bandwidth of Wi-Fi access point, leaving other honest users with small
> portion of throughput. Port blocking does not help because nowadays P2P
> clients use random ports, encryption and other means to hide traffic
> patterns. I suppose that only one distinctive feature of such traffic
> exists: its ability to consume effective bandwidth.
>
> Do you happen to know or use any traffic shaping tools which can limit
> throughput per user?
> Thank you in advance for any thoghts, ideas etc...
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




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Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor with UBNT radios or Mikrotik?

[Data Technology]

I guess I hit enter before I was thru typing.

I also use the Citel in-line suppressors (60v) in every AP that I build.
http://www.citel.us/data_sheets/dataline/MJ850524D3A6012B-DataSheet.pdf

Knock on wood, I have never lost an ethernet port on a unit that has 
this surge suppressor installed.
I had an AP go dead a couple of months ago.  When I opened the enclosure 
there was water in the bottom of the enclosure and the surge suppressor 
was actually melted from the connector shorting out, but the MT board 
was fine.

LaRoy  McCann
Data Technology

Josh Luthman wrote:
> I know it isn't said very often but the voltages for the devices we commonly
> use are
>
> Canopy 12-24v
> Nano/Locostations 12-25v
> MT 4xx 10-28v
>
> Cordless drill battery 18-22v
>
> Having a mobile POE priceless
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> --- Albert Einstein
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Data Technology  wrote:
>
>   
>> Good point about the voltage.
>> I use them mostly for UBNT CPE.  What MT units I used them with were 18
>> or 24V.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>> 
>>> The 600SSB still clamps at 35V like the 300SS, right?
>>>
>>> If so, make sure you are using Less than 35V Mikrotiks units and not 48V
>>> configurations.
>>>
>>> As an alternative Citel also makes a nice outdoor mountable unit
>>> specifically for wifi pin-outs, about the same cost ($25ish).
>>> They have both 60Vand 35V models.
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi
>>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Data Technology" 
>>> To: ; "WISPA General List" <
>>>   
>> wireless@wispa.org>
>> 
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:55 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor
>>>   
>> with
>> 
>>> UBNT radios or Mikrotik?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 Yes you can.  You have to move the ground jumper.  Just loosen the nuts
 and move the jumper to the hole with no copper.
 The jumper will short out the + voltage to ground.

 LaRoy McCann
 Data Technology


 Scott Carullo wrote:

 
> Not sure if it matters that the voltage + and - are swapped...
>
> Thanks
>
> Scott Carullo
> Brevard Wireless
> 321-205-1100 x102
>
>
>
>   
>> 
>> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>> 
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> --
>
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by the Data Technology
> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
>
>
>
>
>   
 
>> 
>> 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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 --
 Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
 Checked by AVG.
 Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date:
 5/15/2009 6:16 AM



 
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> 
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>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
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>> 
>> 
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>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>>> dangerous content by the Data Technology
>>> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
>>
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>>
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>>
>> 
>
>
> ---

Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?

[Jeremy Parr]

2010/1/11 Marlon K. Schafer :
> Hiya Roman,
>
> We bill per bit.  That way we don't care what the customer is doing, all
> we're worried about is how much they uses.  Run edonkey and you'll get an
> extra bill.  Download Netflix and you'll get an extra bill etc.
>
> MOST of the time we catch virus's for our customers.  It's actually a pretty
> good sales tool.  Netflix is changing that somewhat though.
> marlon

That is a very hard sell for transient hotspot users. You'd probably
have close to 100% chargebacks for the customers who get an extra
bill.



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Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?

[Butch Evans]

On Mon, 2010-01-11 at 14:34 +0300, Roman wrote: 
> Do you have any experience with successful blocking of P2P (eDonkey,
> Torrents etc.) traffic in your wireless networks?

Yes.

> Any user who uses torrent client at his PC can effectively consume a lot of
> bandwidth of Wi-Fi access point, leaving other honest users with small
> portion of throughput.

Depends on what you mean by "bandwidth".  Torrents are typically not
huge consumers of bandwidth, but ARE typically large consumers of packet
rate (which will cause 802.11 type devices to not behave well).  There
are ways to recognize the traffic patterns that are associated with
torrents, viruses and such.  If you can recognize them, you can limit
them.

> Port blocking does not help because nowadays P2P
> clients use random ports, encryption and other means to hide traffic
> patterns.

A good observation.  This is why you have to look at the actual traffic
pattern and not the traffic itself.  

> I suppose that only one distinctive feature of such traffic
> exists: its ability to consume effective bandwidth.

Other traffic does this.  A single connection download of a large ISO
image will take a lot of bandwidth, and it is not something you can
classify as peer to peer.  My QOS system identifies this traffic (the
single connections) and separates it out before we start assuming the
traffic is p2p.

> Do you happen to know or use any traffic shaping tools which can limit
> throughput per user?

Per user traffic shaping is easily done in nearly every Linux based
system in existence.  ImageStream, Mikrotik, etc.  

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://store.wispgear.net/* Wired or Wireless Networks   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *





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Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Then just put in a hard cap.  Or set them to such a slow speed that it's 
unusable.

The REST of the users will sure be glad that the service works as it should 
:-).
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Jeremy Parr" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?


2010/1/11 Marlon K. Schafer :
> Hiya Roman,
>
> We bill per bit. That way we don't care what the customer is doing, all
> we're worried about is how much they uses. Run edonkey and you'll get an
> extra bill. Download Netflix and you'll get an extra bill etc.
>
> MOST of the time we catch virus's for our customers. It's actually a 
> pretty
> good sales tool. Netflix is changing that somewhat though.
> marlon

That is a very hard sell for transient hotspot users. You'd probably
have close to 100% chargebacks for the customers who get an extra
bill.



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Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us

[RickG]

Time Warner does offer an SLA on their "Business Class". It's worked in our
favor the three time its gone down in the 6 months that its been installed!
Considering that, our wireless has been running five 9s to our business
customers who chose us over the wired connections options. -RickG


On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Stuart Pierce  wrote:

> I'm not sure I agree either, but wireless obviously can't be cut. With that
> though, our fiber hasn't been out more than twice in 5 years.
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Mike Hammett" 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:15:16 -0600
>
> >I'm not sure that I agree that wireless has higher uptime than fiber.
> >
> >
> >-
> >Mike Hammett
> >Intelligent Computing Solutions
> >http://www.ics-il.com
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >From: "Tom DeReggi" 
> >Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:40 AM
> >To: "WISPA General List" 
> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
> >
> >> Agreed, Brett.
> >>
> >> I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an outage,
> >> and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that.
> >> If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is "you didn't buy a
> >> service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if
> you
> >> are down for a week, read the small print.".
> >> And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? "Oh I used a low cost
> >> Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the
> >> Cable cos?"
> >>
> >> Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any
> other
> >> technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything other
> >> than Wireless for connectivity to a tower?
> >>
> >> Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive
> than
> >> a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to negotiate
> >> lower roof right fees.
> >>
> >> Tom DeReggi
> >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> >>
> >>
> >>  - Original Message -
> >>  From: Bret Clark
> >>  To: WISPA General List
> >>  Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM
> >>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to
> us
> >>
> >>
> >>  Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our
> towers.
> >> We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet
> >> links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way
> if
> >> there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without
> >> getting the run around from a telco.
> >>
> >>  I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one thing
> >> telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their
> >> problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their
> problem
> >> and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with!
> >>
> >>  Bret
> >>
> >>  Tom Sharples wrote:
> >> I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it here
> >> (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The "fix"
> was
> >> that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to
> >> power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This went
> on
> >> for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable. That
> >> has
> >> proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since.
> >>
> >> Tom S.
> >>
> >>
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
> >> To: "WISPA General List" 
> >> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM
> >> Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
> >>
> >>
> >>  I have a tower down.  It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link.
> >>
> >> Can't get to the main router at that local.
> >>
> >> So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find a
> >> phone number for tech support.
> >>
> >> IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web site,
> I
> >> couldn't find it.  So, I decided to try the online chat thingy.
> >>
> >> Up pops a page with a spot for a the username, phone number and zip
> code.
> >> Naturally, I put the right things in the boxes.  Only to get an error.
>  So
> >> I
> >> tried again, and again.  Finally I actually READ what the smallish print
> >> said you can ONLY put in ONE of the fields, not all of them.  Hate to
> >> allow
> >> any answer to work rather than make people only fill in one field where
> >> they
> >> usually have to fill in all of them.  My fault for not reading the fine
> >> print, but then again, I shouldn't have to
> >>
> >> Next, I finally get a tech on the screen.  Well, kinda, the web site
> >> doesn't
> >> have anything but an error at the top.  But the chat part eventually
> came
> >> up
> >> and a tech was on the line.  We quickly established that the tech
> support
> >> gu

Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?

[Mike Hammett]

I wouldn't ever block anything in non-security management.  I'd just slow it 
down.  If you block it, they'll find a way around it.  If you slow it to 64k 
or something like that, it'll just assume you have a slow line and act 
accordingly.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Roman" 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 5:34 AM
To: 
Subject: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?

> Dear readers,
>
> Do you have any experience with successful blocking of P2P (eDonkey,
> Torrents etc.) traffic in your wireless networks?
>
> Any user who uses torrent client at his PC can effectively consume a lot 
> of
> bandwidth of Wi-Fi access point, leaving other honest users with small
> portion of throughput. Port blocking does not help because nowadays P2P
> clients use random ports, encryption and other means to hide traffic
> patterns. I suppose that only one distinctive feature of such traffic
> exists: its ability to consume effective bandwidth.
>
> Do you happen to know or use any traffic shaping tools which can limit
> throughput per user?
> Thank you in advance for any thoghts, ideas etc...
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 



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Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor with UBNT radios or Mikrotik?

[RickG]

Darn! I just got a 36 volt lithium Bosch Hammer Drill!

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Josh Luthman
wrote:

> I know it isn't said very often but the voltages for the devices we
> commonly
> use are
>
> Canopy 12-24v
> Nano/Locostations 12-25v
> MT 4xx 10-28v
>
> Cordless drill battery 18-22v
>
> Having a mobile POE priceless
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> --- Albert Einstein
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Data Technology  wrote:
>
> > Good point about the voltage.
> > I use them mostly for UBNT CPE.  What MT units I used them with were 18
> > or 24V.
> >
> >
> >
> > Tom DeReggi wrote:
> > > The 600SSB still clamps at 35V like the 300SS, right?
> > >
> > > If so, make sure you are using Less than 35V Mikrotiks units and not
> 48V
> > > configurations.
> > >
> > > As an alternative Citel also makes a nice outdoor mountable unit
> > > specifically for wifi pin-outs, about the same cost ($25ish).
> > > They have both 60Vand 35V models.
> > >
> > > Tom DeReggi
> > > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> > > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> > >
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Data Technology" 
> > > To: ; "WISPA General List" <
> > wireless@wispa.org>
> > > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:55 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor
> > with
> > > UBNT radios or Mikrotik?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> Yes you can.  You have to move the ground jumper.  Just loosen the
> nuts
> > >> and move the jumper to the hole with no copper.
> > >> The jumper will short out the + voltage to ground.
> > >>
> > >> LaRoy McCann
> > >> Data Technology
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Scott Carullo wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Not sure if it matters that the voltage + and - are swapped...
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks
> > >>>
> > >>> Scott Carullo
> > >>> Brevard Wireless
> > >>> 321-205-1100 x102
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> >
> 
> > >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >>> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >>>
> >
> 
> > >>>
> > >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>>
> > >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >>>
> > >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>>
> > >>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> > >>> dangerous content by the Data Technology
> > >>> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> 
> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >>
> >
> 
> > >>
> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >>
> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > >> Checked by AVG.
> > >> Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date:
> > >> 5/15/2009 6:16 AM
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> >
> 
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > This message has been scanned for viruses and
> > > dangerous content by the Data Technology
> > > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>

[WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

[Jason Hensley]

Hey guys.  What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30*
or colder)?  N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be
done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not
have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that
we could use to replace this one with.  

Thanks!






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Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor with UBNT radios or Mikrotik?

[RickG]

Good results here as well with Citel units. Unfortunately, the radio
sometimes still gets it through through the coax. Switching over to
polyphasers before spring!

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Data Technology  wrote:

> I guess I hit enter before I was thru typing.
>
> I also use the Citel in-line suppressors (60v) in every AP that I build.
> http://www.citel.us/data_sheets/dataline/MJ850524D3A6012B-DataSheet.pdf
>
> Knock on wood, I have never lost an ethernet port on a unit that has
> this surge suppressor installed.
> I had an AP go dead a couple of months ago.  When I opened the enclosure
> there was water in the bottom of the enclosure and the surge suppressor
> was actually melted from the connector shorting out, but the MT board
> was fine.
>
> LaRoy  McCann
> Data Technology
>
> Josh Luthman wrote:
> > I know it isn't said very often but the voltages for the devices we
> commonly
> > use are
> >
> > Canopy 12-24v
> > Nano/Locostations 12-25v
> > MT 4xx 10-28v
> >
> > Cordless drill battery 18-22v
> >
> > Having a mobile POE priceless
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> > --- Albert Einstein
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Data Technology 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Good point about the voltage.
> >> I use them mostly for UBNT CPE.  What MT units I used them with were 18
> >> or 24V.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Tom DeReggi wrote:
> >>
> >>> The 600SSB still clamps at 35V like the 300SS, right?
> >>>
> >>> If so, make sure you are using Less than 35V Mikrotiks units and not
> 48V
> >>> configurations.
> >>>
> >>> As an alternative Citel also makes a nice outdoor mountable unit
> >>> specifically for wifi pin-outs, about the same cost ($25ish).
> >>> They have both 60Vand 35V models.
> >>>
> >>> Tom DeReggi
> >>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> >>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> - Original Message -
> >>> From: "Data Technology" 
> >>> To: ; "WISPA General List" <
> >>>
> >> wireless@wispa.org>
> >>
> >>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:55 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Can I use Motorola Canopy 600SSB Surge Suppressor
> >>>
> >> with
> >>
> >>> UBNT radios or Mikrotik?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>  Yes you can.  You have to move the ground jumper.  Just loosen the
> nuts
>  and move the jumper to the hole with no copper.
>  The jumper will short out the + voltage to ground.
> 
>  LaRoy McCann
>  Data Technology
> 
> 
>  Scott Carullo wrote:
> 
> 
> > Not sure if it matters that the voltage + and - are swapped...
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Scott Carullo
> > Brevard Wireless
> > 321-205-1100 x102
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> 
> >>
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
> >>
> 
> >>
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> > --
> >
> > This message has been scanned for viruses and
> > dangerous content by the Data Technology
> > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
>  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>  http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
>  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
>  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
>  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
>  --
>  Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>  Checked by AVG.
>  Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.26/2116 - Release Date:
>  5/15/2009 6:16 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> 
> >>
> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >>> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> 
> >>
> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>>
> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>>
> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> >>> dangerous content by the Data Technology
> >>> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> ---

Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

[Robert West]

Ice works.  :)

Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self vulcanizing
tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of "crusty" stuff
trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing chemical or the
sticky or whatever but it went on just fine.  Temp was around 20 degrees.  

Bob-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jason Hensley
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

Hey guys.  What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30*
or colder)?  N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be
done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not
have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that
we could use to replace this one with.  

Thanks!







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Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?

[RickG]

Marlon, as you know I've been a proponent of usage based billing since I've
been in broadband. But, whether you bill for it or not, PTP still eats up
the AP to the point it slows it down for everyone. How do you get around
that?
-RickG

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer 
wrote:

> Hiya Roman,
>
> We bill per bit.  That way we don't care what the customer is doing, all
> we're worried about is how much they uses.  Run edonkey and you'll get an
> extra bill.  Download Netflix and you'll get an extra bill etc.
>
> MOST of the time we catch virus's for our customers.  It's actually a
> pretty
> good sales tool.  Netflix is changing that somewhat though.
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Roman" 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 3:34 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?
>
>
> > Dear readers,
> >
> > Do you have any experience with successful blocking of P2P (eDonkey,
> > Torrents etc.) traffic in your wireless networks?
> >
> > Any user who uses torrent client at his PC can effectively consume a lot
> > of
> > bandwidth of Wi-Fi access point, leaving other honest users with small
> > portion of throughput. Port blocking does not help because nowadays P2P
> > clients use random ports, encryption and other means to hide traffic
> > patterns. I suppose that only one distinctive feature of such traffic
> > exists: its ability to consume effective bandwidth.
> >
> > Do you happen to know or use any traffic shaping tools which can limit
> > throughput per user?
> > Thank you in advance for any thoghts, ideas etc...
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



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Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

[Jason Hensley]

Our luck hasn't been good with that.  Other ideas / possibilities?

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:23 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

Ice works.  :)

Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self vulcanizing
tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of "crusty" stuff
trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing chemical or the
sticky or whatever but it went on just fine.  Temp was around 20 degrees.  

Bob-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jason Hensley
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

Hey guys.  What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30*
or colder)?  N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be
done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not
have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that
we could use to replace this one with.  

Thanks!







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Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

[Josh Luthman]

Coax seal.

On 1/11/10, Jason Hensley  wrote:
> Our luck hasn't been good with that.  Other ideas / possibilities?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Robert West
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:23 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
>
> Ice works.  :)
>
> Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self vulcanizing
> tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of "crusty" stuff
> trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing chemical or the
> sticky or whatever but it went on just fine.  Temp was around 20 degrees.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jason Hensley
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
>
> Hey guys.  What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30*
> or colder)?  N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be
> done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not
> have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that
> we could use to replace this one with.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
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> 
>
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>
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>


-- 
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
--- Albert Einstein



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Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

[Robert West]

I've used the liquid tape but never in the cold.  What's happened to the
vulcanizing tape?  Some use a top coat of regular vinyl tape so that it
doesn't weather.

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jason Hensley
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:25 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

Our luck hasn't been good with that.  Other ideas / possibilities?

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:23 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

Ice works.  :)

Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self vulcanizing
tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of "crusty" stuff
trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing chemical or the
sticky or whatever but it went on just fine.  Temp was around 20 degrees.  

Bob-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jason Hensley
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

Hey guys.  What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30*
or colder)?  N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be
done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not
have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that
we could use to replace this one with.  

Thanks!







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Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

[Robert West]

Coax seal is the S**T man!  

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

Coax seal.

On 1/11/10, Jason Hensley  wrote:
> Our luck hasn't been good with that.  Other ideas / possibilities?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Robert West
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:23 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
>
> Ice works.  :)
>
> Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self
vulcanizing
> tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of "crusty" stuff
> trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing chemical or the
> sticky or whatever but it went on just fine.  Temp was around 20 degrees.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jason Hensley
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
>
> Hey guys.  What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30*
> or colder)?  N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be
> done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not
> have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna
that
> we could use to replace this one with.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
>

> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>

> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>

> 
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>

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>
>
>


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-- 
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
--- Albert Einstein




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Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

[Travis Johnson]

Coax-Seal.

http://www.amazon.com/Coax-Seal-ft-Pro-Pack/dp/B00075J4JG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1263234681&sr=8-3

We use it on everything and in every temperature.

Travis
Microserv


Jason Hensley wrote:
> Hey guys.  What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30*
> or colder)?  N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be
> done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not
> have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that
> we could use to replace this one with.  
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>   



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Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

[Mike]

The Andrew way has always been wide mastic/coax seal/good electrical tape.

The mastic keeps the coax seal out of the threads

The coax seal seals

The electrical tape protects the coax seal


Always wrap like you're roofing; bottom up.

Mike

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jason Hensley
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:15 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

Hey guys.  What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30*
or colder)?  N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be
done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not
have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that
we could use to replace this one with.  

Thanks!







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Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

[Scott Reed]

The key to using ice is to keep it cold all year.

For the self-vulcanizing tape, I find it works by putting it on the 
defroster vent of the truck while driving to the site and then keeping 
it in an inside pocket until ready to use it.

Jason Hensley wrote:
> Our luck hasn't been good with that.  Other ideas / possibilities?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Robert West
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:23 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
>
> Ice works.  :)
>
> Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self vulcanizing
> tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of "crusty" stuff
> trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing chemical or the
> sticky or whatever but it went on just fine.  Temp was around 20 degrees.  
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Jason Hensley
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM
> To: 'WISPA General List'
> Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
>
> Hey guys.  What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30*
> or colder)?  N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be
> done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not
> have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna that
> we could use to replace this one with.  
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
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>
>
> 
> 
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>   

-- 
Scott Reed
Sr. Systems Engineer
GAB Midwest
1-800-363-1544 x4000
Cell: 260-273-7239




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Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

[RickG]

Ditto.

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Josh Luthman
wrote:

> Coax seal.
>
> On 1/11/10, Jason Hensley  wrote:
> > Our luck hasn't been good with that.  Other ideas / possibilities?
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of Robert West
> > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:23 PM
> > To: 'WISPA General List'
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
> >
> > Ice works.  :)
> >
> > Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self
> vulcanizing
> > tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of "crusty" stuff
> > trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing chemical or
> the
> > sticky or whatever but it went on just fine.  Temp was around 20 degrees.
> >
> > Bob-
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of Jason Hensley
> > Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM
> > To: 'WISPA General List'
> > Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
> >
> > Hey guys.  What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather
> (30*
> > or colder)?  N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be
> > done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not
> > have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna
> that
> > we could use to replace this one with.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> > 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> > 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
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> >
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> >
>
>
> --
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> --- Albert Einstein
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

[Bob Moldashel]

Wow...  I wish I had a dollar for every time this subject is 
discussed.   I would be in the Caribbean right now.  :-)

Its kinda like the Windows/Linux discussion...

-B-



RickG wrote:
> Ditto.
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Josh Luthman
> wrote:
>
>   
>> Coax seal.
>>
>> On 1/11/10, Jason Hensley  wrote:
>> 
>>> Our luck hasn't been good with that.  Other ideas / possibilities?
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Robert West
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:23 PM
>>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
>>>
>>> Ice works.  :)
>>>
>>> Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self
>>>   
>> vulcanizing
>> 
>>> tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of "crusty" stuff
>>> trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing chemical or
>>>   
>> the
>> 
>>> sticky or whatever but it went on just fine.  Temp was around 20 degrees.
>>>
>>> Bob-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Jason Hensley
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM
>>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
>>>
>>> Hey guys.  What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather
>>>   
>> (30*
>> 
>>> or colder)?  N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be
>>> done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not
>>> have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna
>>>   
>> that
>> 
>>> we could use to replace this one with.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>>>
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>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
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>>>   
>> 
>> 
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>>>
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>>>
>>>   
>> --
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
>> --- Albert Einstein
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

[RickG]

LOL, do you invest in the futures market!?! I'd bet it will come up again!
-r

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Bob Moldashel  wrote:

> Wow...  I wish I had a dollar for every time this subject is
> discussed.   I would be in the Caribbean right now.  :-)
>
> Its kinda like the Windows/Linux discussion...
>
> -B-
>
>
>
> RickG wrote:
> > Ditto.
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Josh Luthman
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Coax seal.
> >>
> >> On 1/11/10, Jason Hensley  wrote:
> >>
> >>> Our luck hasn't been good with that.  Other ideas / possibilities?
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> >>> Behalf Of Robert West
> >>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:23 PM
> >>> To: 'WISPA General List'
> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
> >>>
> >>> Ice works.  :)
> >>>
> >>> Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self
> >>>
> >> vulcanizing
> >>
> >>> tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of "crusty"
> stuff
> >>> trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing chemical or
> >>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>> sticky or whatever but it went on just fine.  Temp was around 20
> degrees.
> >>>
> >>> Bob-
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> >>> Behalf Of Jason Hensley
> >>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM
> >>> To: 'WISPA General List'
> >>> Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
> >>>
> >>> Hey guys.  What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather
> >>>
> >> (30*
> >>
> >>> or colder)?  N connector specifically. This is something that needs to
> be
> >>> done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to
> not
> >>> have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna
> >>>
> >> that
> >>
> >>> we could use to replace this one with.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> 
> >>
> >>> 
> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >>> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> 
> >>
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>>
> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> 
> >>
> >>> 
> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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> >>
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> >>>
> >>>
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> >>
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> >>
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> >>
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> >>>
> >>>
> >> --
> >> Josh Luthman
> >> Office: 937-552-2340
> >> Direct: 937-552-2343
> >> 1100 Wayne St
> >> Suite 1337
> >> Troy, OH 45373
> >>
> >> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
> >> --- Albert Einstein
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
> >>
> 
> >>
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> >>
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> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

[Patrick Leary]

Right, when I first saw this topic come up a gazillion years ago I
should have become a chemist and materials engineer to come up with the
perfect product. I'd be in the box seats for sure! 


Patrick Leary
Aperto Networks
813.426.4230 mobile

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:40 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

Wow...  I wish I had a dollar for every time this subject is 
discussed.   I would be in the Caribbean right now.  :-)

Its kinda like the Windows/Linux discussion...

-B-



RickG wrote:
> Ditto.
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Josh Luthman
> wrote:
>
>   
>> Coax seal.
>>
>> On 1/11/10, Jason Hensley  wrote:
>> 
>>> Our luck hasn't been good with that.  Other ideas / possibilities?
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]

>>> On Behalf Of Robert West
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:23 PM
>>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
>>>
>>> Ice works.  :)
>>>
>>> Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self
>>>   
>> vulcanizing
>> 
>>> tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of "crusty" 
>>> stuff trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing 
>>> chemical or
>>>   
>> the
>> 
>>> sticky or whatever but it went on just fine.  Temp was around 20
degrees.
>>>
>>> Bob-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]

>>> On Behalf Of Jason Hensley
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM
>>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather
>>>
>>> Hey guys.  What do you use to water seal a connection in cold 
>>> weather
>>>   
>> (30*
>> 
>>> or colder)?  N connector specifically. This is something that needs 
>>> to be done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would 
>>> prefer to not have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have

>>> another antenna
>>>   
>> that
>> 
>>> we could use to replace this one with.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> -
>> ---
>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>>   
>> -
>> ---
>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> -
>> ---
>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>>   
>> -
>> ---
>> 
>>> 
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>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
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>>>
>>>
>>>   
>> -
>> ---
>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>> -
>> ---
>> 
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>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>   
>> --
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
>> --- Albert Einstein
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> ---
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
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>> ---
>>
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>>
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>> 
>
>
> --
> --
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> --
>  
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>
>   





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Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

[Mike Hammett]

I think Jason's angle is that products often times have an application 
temperature range that is less than the temperature way in which they'll do 
their job.  What everyone does may well work fine at 70 degrees ambient, but 
at 30 or -50, what works?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Bob Moldashel" 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 2:39 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

> Wow...  I wish I had a dollar for every time this subject is
> discussed.   I would be in the Caribbean right now.  :-)
>
> Its kinda like the Windows/Linux discussion...
>
> -B-
>
>
>
> RickG wrote:
>> Ditto.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Josh Luthman
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Coax seal.
>>>
>>> On 1/11/10, Jason Hensley  wrote:
>>>
 Our luck hasn't been good with that.  Other ideas / possibilities?

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Robert West
 Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:23 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

 Ice works.  :)

 Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self

>>> vulcanizing
>>>
 tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of "crusty" 
 stuff
 trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing chemical or

>>> the
>>>
 sticky or whatever but it went on just fine.  Temp was around 20 
 degrees.

 Bob-



 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Jason Hensley
 Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

 Hey guys.  What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather

>>> (30*
>>>
 or colder)?  N connector specifically. This is something that needs to 
 be
 done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to 
 not
 have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna

>>> that
>>>
 we could use to replace this one with.

 Thanks!







>>> 
>>>
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


>>> 
>>>
 

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>>> --
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
>>> --- Albert Einstein
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>> 
>>>
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>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>> 
>>
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>>
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>>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

[Josh Cheney]

On 1/11/10 3:47 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> at ... -50, what works?

Not me, that's for sure!


-- 
Josh Cheney
josh.che...@gmail.com
http://www.joshcheney.com



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Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us

[Greg]

This topic got quite a bit off from Marlon's original post, but getting back
to that, what I've done more than once with the local cable company is what
I guess would fit in the category of "social engineering", that is I imitate
what I've heard their techs say when they get stumped and call in to their
own tech support. When the person on the other end of their tech support
answers I say "level two please" with an air of confidence and impatience. I
get right through to someone who knows their ascii from their elbow.

Greg

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:34 PM, RickG  wrote:

> Time Warner does offer an SLA on their "Business Class". It's worked in our
> favor the three time its gone down in the 6 months that its been installed!
> Considering that, our wireless has been running five 9s to our business
> customers who chose us over the wired connections options. -RickG
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Stuart Pierce  wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure I agree either, but wireless obviously can't be cut. With
> that
> > though, our fiber hasn't been out more than twice in 5 years.
> >
> > -- Original Message --
> > From: "Mike Hammett" 
> > Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> > Date:  Mon, 11 Jan 2010 08:15:16 -0600
> >
> > >I'm not sure that I agree that wireless has higher uptime than fiber.
> > >
> > >
> > >-
> > >Mike Hammett
> > >Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > >http://www.ics-il.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >From: "Tom DeReggi" 
> > >Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:40 AM
> > >To: "WISPA General List" 
> > >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to
> us
> > >
> > >> Agreed, Brett.
> > >>
> > >> I see people use business Cable all the time, UNTIL they have an
> outage,
> > >> and then they loose all their customers feeding off it after that.
> > >> If there is one Thing the Cable Cos understand it is "you didn't buy a
> > >> service with an SLA because we dont offer one, so we can care less if
> > you
> > >> are down for a week, read the small print.".
> > >> And what can you tell your subs once it occurred? "Oh I used a low
> cost
> > >> Cable service, uh oh yeah why did I say we had better service than the
> > >> Cable cos?"
> > >>
> > >> Plus, Wireless is more reliable from an uptime perspective, than any
> > other
> > >> technology (even Fiber), so why would a WISP want to use anything
> other
> > >> than Wireless for connectivity to a tower?
> > >>
> > >> Well, it is true that some Business CAble services are less expensive
> > than
> > >> a single antenna roof right fee. But I used that arguement to
> negotiate
> > >> lower roof right fees.
> > >>
> > >> Tom DeReggi
> > >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> > >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>  - Original Message -
> > >>  From: Bret Clark
> > >>  To: WISPA General List
> > >>  Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:49 PM
> > >>  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors
> to
> > us
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>  Blah...I wouldn't rely on any telco or cable company to serve our
> > towers.
> > >> We are completely wireless between towers, even our upstream Internet
> > >> links are wireless running to local Internet exchange points. That way
> > if
> > >> there is a problem we are responsible for it and we can fix it without
> > >> getting the run around from a telco.
> > >>
> > >>  I was in the CLEC business for over 10 years and if there is one
> thing
> > >> telco's do better than anyone else is finger point! It was never their
> > >> problem until you provided beyond a shadow of a doubt it was their
> > problem
> > >> and 90% of the time is was their problem to begin with!
> > >>
> > >>  Bret
> > >>
> > >>  Tom Sharples wrote:
> > >> I found out about so-called business DSL a few years ago. We had it
> here
> > >> (Qwest), and every three to four weeks it would go belly-up. The "fix"
> > was
> > >> that, after a day or two of dead air, Qwest would send out a tech to
> > >> power-cycle the ancient and creaky Nortel neighborhood dslam. This
> went
> > on
> > >> for a few months, until I switched to Comcast business-class cable.
> That
> > >> has
> > >> proven to be extremely reliable, and I haven't looked back since.
> > >>
> > >> Tom S.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> - Original Message -
> > >> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" 
> > >> To: "WISPA General List" 
> > >> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:41 PM
> > >> Subject: [WISPA] Why the telco's will never be true competitors to us
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>  I have a tower down.  It's fed by a *business* grade DSL link.
> > >>
> > >> Can't get to the main router at that local.
> > >>
> > >> So I log onto the Century Tel (century link nowadays) web site go find
> a
> > >> phone number for tech support.
> > >>
> > >> IF there is a phone number on their Microsoft Bing cloan of a web
> site,
> > I
> > >> couldn't find it.  So, I decided to try the online chat th

Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

[Marlon K. Schafer]

We use the same mastic and 33+ tape that we normally do.

Before you go to the site, put it on the dash with the defrost on to get it 
warmed up well.

Then put the tape INSIDE your shirt, that'll keep it fairly warm.

Once up there, work really fast :-).
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Jason Hensley" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:15 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather


> Hey guys.  What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather (30*
> or colder)?  N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be
> done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not
> have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna 
> that
> we could use to replace this one with.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
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Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?

[Marlon K. Schafer]

By stopping it before it starts  People here know what it'll do to their 
bill.

Sometimes it happens anyway.  Usually people don't know it's happening.

When we catch someone in the act we call them as soon as we can and see what 
they are up to.  If it's just a big download we let it go and people just 
have to understand that that's going to happen from time to time.  Just like 
busy signals used to happen sometimes.

If we can't get ahold of them to get them to stop or justify it, we leave a 
message on the phone and block them till they call.

Better to piss off one customer than 40...

marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "RickG" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?


> Marlon, as you know I've been a proponent of usage based billing since 
> I've
> been in broadband. But, whether you bill for it or not, PTP still eats up
> the AP to the point it slows it down for everyone. How do you get around
> that?
> -RickG
>
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer 
> wrote:
>
>> Hiya Roman,
>>
>> We bill per bit.  That way we don't care what the customer is doing, all
>> we're worried about is how much they uses.  Run edonkey and you'll get an
>> extra bill.  Download Netflix and you'll get an extra bill etc.
>>
>> MOST of the time we catch virus's for our customers.  It's actually a
>> pretty
>> good sales tool.  Netflix is changing that somewhat though.
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Roman" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 3:34 AM
>> Subject: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?
>>
>>
>> > Dear readers,
>> >
>> > Do you have any experience with successful blocking of P2P (eDonkey,
>> > Torrents etc.) traffic in your wireless networks?
>> >
>> > Any user who uses torrent client at his PC can effectively consume a 
>> > lot
>> > of
>> > bandwidth of Wi-Fi access point, leaving other honest users with small
>> > portion of throughput. Port blocking does not help because nowadays P2P
>> > clients use random ports, encryption and other means to hide traffic
>> > patterns. I suppose that only one distinctive feature of such traffic
>> > exists: its ability to consume effective bandwidth.
>> >
>> > Do you happen to know or use any traffic shaping tools which can limit
>> > throughput per user?
>> > Thank you in advance for any thoghts, ideas etc...
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> > http://signup.wispa.org/
>> >
>> 
>> >
>> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> >
>> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> >
>> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>>
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>>
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>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

[Marlon K. Schafer]

LOL  That's gotta be the same thing we've used for years.

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MElectrical/Home/ProductsServices/Products/?PC_7_RJH9U5230GE3E02LECIE20OES1_nid=0L2RH0Z4C7beV8CW66MTMZgl

NEVER had a leak.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Travis Johnson" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather


> Coax-Seal.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Coax-Seal-ft-Pro-Pack/dp/B00075J4JG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1263234681&sr=8-3
>
> We use it on everything and in every temperature.
>
> Travis
> Microserv
>
>
> Jason Hensley wrote:
>> Hey guys.  What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather 
>> (30*
>> or colder)?  N connector specifically. This is something that needs to be
>> done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to not
>> have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna 
>> that
>> we could use to replace this one with.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

[Jason Hensley]

Yes, that's the biggest thing is that during our cold weather we've had here
the past week or so (0* with -15 wind chills - not a normal thing here in
Southern Missouri) our current weather seal methods aren't easy to install.
Sure, we could do it inside and would work fine but we get up on a tower in
this cold and the tapes get just a bit too stiff for us to use, and hate to
climb twice to pull an antenna down just to water seal it on the ground in a
warm environment.  Luckily we have better days now.  Got up to 40 or so
today and should be that way all week.  MUCH better!!!

"Normal" weather we don't have issues with water sealing - we have found a
great system that works for us - rubber/mastic tape with electrical tape
over that and on occasion, silicone for those connectors that we can't quite
get the tape down into adequately. 

Thanks for the recommendations guys.  Appreciate all the help that this list
is.  



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 2:47 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

I think Jason's angle is that products often times have an application 
temperature range that is less than the temperature way in which they'll do 
their job.  What everyone does may well work fine at 70 degrees ambient, but

at 30 or -50, what works?


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Bob Moldashel" 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 2:39 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

> Wow...  I wish I had a dollar for every time this subject is
> discussed.   I would be in the Caribbean right now.  :-)
>
> Its kinda like the Windows/Linux discussion...
>
> -B-
>
>
>
> RickG wrote:
>> Ditto.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 1:29 PM, Josh Luthman
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Coax seal.
>>>
>>> On 1/11/10, Jason Hensley  wrote:
>>>
 Our luck hasn't been good with that.  Other ideas / possibilities?

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Robert West
 Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:23 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

 Ice works.  :)

 Was swapping antennas last night and I just used the normal self

>>> vulcanizing
>>>
 tape, worked fine in the cold although there was a bit of "crusty" 
 stuff
 trying to flake off the tape, I assume was the vulcanizing chemical or

>>> the
>>>
 sticky or whatever but it went on just fine.  Temp was around 20 
 degrees.

 Bob-



 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Jason Hensley
 Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 1:15 PM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: [WISPA] Water sealing in cold weather

 Hey guys.  What do you use to water seal a connection in cold weather

>>> (30*
>>>
 or colder)?  N connector specifically. This is something that needs to 
 be
 done on top of a tower - need to replace a radio and would prefer to 
 not
 have to bring the antenna down to do it and don't have another antenna

>>> that
>>>
 we could use to replace this one with.

 Thanks!







>>>

>>>
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


>>>

>>>
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





>>>

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>>>


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 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


>>> --
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-

[WISPA] Firetide.....

[Bob Moldashel]

Anyone have any good, bad or otherwise on this mesh product..per 
se.   ???



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Re: [WISPA] Firetide.....

[KosiNet Wireless]

Good Stuff!! We've got our whole City running on it. So far, all of the Fire 
Departments, and recently added about a dozen traffic signals. If the City 
adds the "Red Light" cameras, they're planning on using these as well.

-Gary-

- Original Message - 
From: "Bob Moldashel" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:24 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Firetide.


> Anyone have any good, bad or otherwise on this mesh product..per
> se.   ???
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
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> 




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Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?

[RickG]

OK, so your finding most wont or dont do it since they know they'll have to
pay for the bandwidth?
-RickG

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

> By stopping it before it starts  People here know what it'll do to
> their
> bill.
>
> Sometimes it happens anyway.  Usually people don't know it's happening.
>
> When we catch someone in the act we call them as soon as we can and see
> what
> they are up to.  If it's just a big download we let it go and people just
> have to understand that that's going to happen from time to time.  Just
> like
> busy signals used to happen sometimes.
>
> If we can't get ahold of them to get them to stop or justify it, we leave a
> message on the phone and block them till they call.
>
> Better to piss off one customer than 40...
>
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "RickG" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?
>
>
> > Marlon, as you know I've been a proponent of usage based billing since
> > I've
> > been in broadband. But, whether you bill for it or not, PTP still eats up
> > the AP to the point it slows it down for everyone. How do you get around
> > that?
> > -RickG
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Marlon K. Schafer
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hiya Roman,
> >>
> >> We bill per bit.  That way we don't care what the customer is doing, all
> >> we're worried about is how much they uses.  Run edonkey and you'll get
> an
> >> extra bill.  Download Netflix and you'll get an extra bill etc.
> >>
> >> MOST of the time we catch virus's for our customers.  It's actually a
> >> pretty
> >> good sales tool.  Netflix is changing that somewhat though.
> >> marlon
> >>
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From: "Roman" 
> >> To: 
> >> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 3:34 AM
> >> Subject: [WISPA] How to block p2p traffic in public Wi-Fi hotspot?
> >>
> >>
> >> > Dear readers,
> >> >
> >> > Do you have any experience with successful blocking of P2P (eDonkey,
> >> > Torrents etc.) traffic in your wireless networks?
> >> >
> >> > Any user who uses torrent client at his PC can effectively consume a
> >> > lot
> >> > of
> >> > bandwidth of Wi-Fi access point, leaving other honest users with small
> >> > portion of throughput. Port blocking does not help because nowadays
> P2P
> >> > clients use random ports, encryption and other means to hide traffic
> >> > patterns. I suppose that only one distinctive feature of such traffic
> >> > exists: its ability to consume effective bandwidth.
> >> >
> >> > Do you happen to know or use any traffic shaping tools which can limit
> >> > throughput per user?
> >> > Thank you in advance for any thoghts, ideas etc...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> 
> >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >> >
> >>
> 
> >> >
> >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >> >
> >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >> >
> >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
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> >>
> >>
> 
> >>
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> >>
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> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> 
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> >
> 
> >
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> >
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>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Firetide.....

[Bob Moldashel]

What city?   And should I assume there is no video on the system?

Tx

Bob



KosiNet Wireless wrote:
> Good Stuff!! We've got our whole City running on it. So far, all of the Fire 
> Departments, and recently added about a dozen traffic signals. If the City 
> adds the "Red Light" cameras, they're planning on using these as well.
>
> -Gary-
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Bob Moldashel" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:24 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] Firetide.
>
>
>   
>> Anyone have any good, bad or otherwise on this mesh product..per
>> se.   ???
>>
>>
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>>
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>>
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>>
>> 
>
>
>
> 
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>
>   




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Re: [WISPA] Firetide.....

[KosiNet Wireless]

Mansfield, Ohio

No Video yet, mostly running Internet surfing, Email, and Microsoft Terminal 
Services at the Fire Stations - Stoplight controllers all connect back to a 
single controller.

-Gary-

- Original Message - 
From: "Bob Moldashel" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Firetide.


> What city?   And should I assume there is no video on the system?
>
> Tx
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> KosiNet Wireless wrote:
>> Good Stuff!! We've got our whole City running on it. So far, all of the 
>> Fire
>> Departments, and recently added about a dozen traffic signals. If the 
>> City
>> adds the "Red Light" cameras, they're planning on using these as well.
>>
>> -Gary-
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Bob Moldashel" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:24 PM
>> Subject: [WISPA] Firetide.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Anyone have any good, bad or otherwise on this mesh product..per
>>> se.   ???
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>>
>>
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Firetide....

[Stuart Pierce]

Miss Ohio Festival and Snowtrails ( which ought to be loving the season ). 
How's that system funded ?


-- Original Message --
From: "KosiNet Wireless" 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Mon, 11 Jan 2010 22:16:30 -0500

>Mansfield, Ohio
>
>No Video yet, mostly running Internet surfing, Email, and Microsoft Terminal 
>Services at the Fire Stations - Stoplight controllers all connect back to a 
>single controller.
>
>-Gary-
>
>- Original Message - 
>From: "Bob Moldashel" 
>To: "WISPA General List" 
>Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:15 PM
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Firetide.
>
>
>> What city?   And should I assume there is no video on the system?
>>
>> Tx
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>> KosiNet Wireless wrote:
>>> Good Stuff!! We've got our whole City running on it. So far, all of the 
>>> Fire
>>> Departments, and recently added about a dozen traffic signals. If the 
>>> City
>>> adds the "Red Light" cameras, they're planning on using these as well.
>>>
>>> -Gary-
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Bob Moldashel" 
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:24 PM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Firetide.
>>>
>>>
>>>
 Anyone have any good, bad or otherwise on this mesh product..per
 se.   ???


 
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
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>>> 
>>>
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>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>
>
>
>
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Sent via the WebMail system at avolve.net


 
   



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Re: [WISPA] Firetide....

[KosiNet Wireless]

Miss Ohio - Embarq / Now CenturyLink is a local Telco - they kick some big 
$$ to the City for these Events. Although, with the Firetide Setup, the City 
has shut off at least (6) T1's from them. Now that we've got a couple of 
years under our belt with this system, they're looking at expanding it.

Snow Trails is out of our reach for wireless - I'm not sure what they're 
doing.



- Original Message - 
From: "Stuart Pierce" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Firetide


> Miss Ohio Festival and Snowtrails ( which ought to be loving the season ). 
> How's that system funded ?
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "KosiNet Wireless" 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Mon, 11 Jan 2010 22:16:30 -0500
>
>>Mansfield, Ohio
>>
>>No Video yet, mostly running Internet surfing, Email, and Microsoft 
>>Terminal
>>Services at the Fire Stations - Stoplight controllers all connect back to 
>>a
>>single controller.
>>
>>-Gary-
>>
>>- Original Message - 
>>From: "Bob Moldashel" 
>>To: "WISPA General List" 
>>Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:15 PM
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Firetide.
>>
>>
>>> What city?   And should I assume there is no video on the system?
>>>
>>> Tx
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> KosiNet Wireless wrote:
 Good Stuff!! We've got our whole City running on it. So far, all of the
 Fire
 Departments, and recently added about a dozen traffic signals. If the
 City
 adds the "Red Light" cameras, they're planning on using these as well.

 -Gary-

 - Original Message - 
 From: "Bob Moldashel" 
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 7:24 PM
 Subject: [WISPA] Firetide.



> Anyone have any good, bad or otherwise on this mesh product..per
> se.   ???
>
>
> 
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>



 
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>
>
>
>
>
> 
> Sent via the WebMail system at avolve.net
>
>
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>
>
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[WISPA] Ubnt and OSPF

[Jeremy Parr]

I'm having issues with OSPF (Mikrotik) traversing an Airmax sector.
Network consists of a Routerboard running 4.1, connected to a Rocket
sector running XM.v5.1. Client radio is a Nanostation also running
XM.v5.1, connected to a Routerboard running 4.2. The first routerboard
has a number of ospf neighbors on the same interface the Rocket is
connected to (there is a switch between the physical interface and the
Rocket) but when a neighbor relationship is established over the UBNT
link, strange things happen. Running a traceroute to the loopback
address of the MT results in a routing loop, with the Nanostation
showing up as a L3 hop. I have yet to do a packet dump, but my guess
is that somehow the UBNT radio is mangling the OSPF multicast traffic
and inserting itself in to the path. The notes on the UBNT forum
regarding OSPF seem to indicate that enabling multicast forwarding on
the radio is all that is required. See below for the MT OSPF config.

/routing ospf instance
set default comment="" disabled=no distribute-default=never
in-filter=ospf-in metric-bgp=20 metric-connected=20 metric-default=1
metric-other-ospf=\
auto metric-rip=20 metric-static=20 name=default
out-filter=ospf-out redistribute-bgp=no redistribute-connected=no
redistribute-other-ospf=no \
redistribute-rip=no redistribute-static=no router-id=10.254.12.3
/routing ospf area
set backbone area-id=0.0.0.0 comment="" disabled=no instance=default
name=backbone type=default
add area-id=0.0.0.1 comment="" disabled=no instance=default name=1 type=default
/routing ospf interface
add authentication=md5 authentication-key=secret
authentication-key-id=1 comment="" cost=10 dead-interval=40s
disabled=no hello-interval=10s \
instance-id=0 interface=wlan1 network-type=broadcast passive=no
priority=1 retransmit-interval=5s transmit-delay=1s
add authentication=md5 authentication-key=secret
authentication-key-id=1 comment="" cost=10 dead-interval=40s
disabled=no hello-interval=10s \
instance-id=0 interface=ether1 network-type=broadcast passive=no
priority=1 retransmit-interval=5s transmit-delay=1s
/routing ospf network
add area=1 comment="" disabled=no network=10.0.0.0/8



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Re: [WISPA] Ubnt and OSPF

[Jayson Baker]

Make sure you have "Multicast Data" enabled or whatever on the Advanced tab.
Pulled my hair out over this for a couple days, then realized if it's not
checked, you get one-way OSPF.
Checked it, rebooted, and everything has been happy since.

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Jeremy Parr  wrote:

> I'm having issues with OSPF (Mikrotik) traversing an Airmax sector.
> Network consists of a Routerboard running 4.1, connected to a Rocket
> sector running XM.v5.1. Client radio is a Nanostation also running
> XM.v5.1, connected to a Routerboard running 4.2. The first routerboard
> has a number of ospf neighbors on the same interface the Rocket is
> connected to (there is a switch between the physical interface and the
> Rocket) but when a neighbor relationship is established over the UBNT
> link, strange things happen. Running a traceroute to the loopback
> address of the MT results in a routing loop, with the Nanostation
> showing up as a L3 hop. I have yet to do a packet dump, but my guess
> is that somehow the UBNT radio is mangling the OSPF multicast traffic
> and inserting itself in to the path. The notes on the UBNT forum
> regarding OSPF seem to indicate that enabling multicast forwarding on
> the radio is all that is required. See below for the MT OSPF config.
>
> /routing ospf instance
> set default comment="" disabled=no distribute-default=never
> in-filter=ospf-in metric-bgp=20 metric-connected=20 metric-default=1
> metric-other-ospf=\
>auto metric-rip=20 metric-static=20 name=default
> out-filter=ospf-out redistribute-bgp=no redistribute-connected=no
> redistribute-other-ospf=no \
>redistribute-rip=no redistribute-static=no router-id=10.254.12.3
> /routing ospf area
> set backbone area-id=0.0.0.0 comment="" disabled=no instance=default
> name=backbone type=default
> add area-id=0.0.0.1 comment="" disabled=no instance=default name=1
> type=default
> /routing ospf interface
> add authentication=md5 authentication-key=secret
> authentication-key-id=1 comment="" cost=10 dead-interval=40s
> disabled=no hello-interval=10s \
>instance-id=0 interface=wlan1 network-type=broadcast passive=no
> priority=1 retransmit-interval=5s transmit-delay=1s
> add authentication=md5 authentication-key=secret
> authentication-key-id=1 comment="" cost=10 dead-interval=40s
> disabled=no hello-interval=10s \
>instance-id=0 interface=ether1 network-type=broadcast passive=no
> priority=1 retransmit-interval=5s transmit-delay=1s
> /routing ospf network
> add area=1 comment="" disabled=no network=10.0.0.0/8
>
>
>
> 
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[WISPA] Network Gigabit Switch Recommendations

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Need to upgrade several 10/100 switches to 10/100/100; I'm looking for 
recommendations on good reliable equipment.  Will need 24 and 48 port units, 
Rx/Tx port mirroring is a must!

Thanks in advance,
Scott




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Re: [WISPA] Network Gigabit Switch Recommendations

[Jerry Richardson]

Lotsa used Cisco out there

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 9:24 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Network Gigabit Switch Recommendations

Need to upgrade several 10/100 switches to 10/100/100; I'm looking for 
recommendations on good reliable equipment.  Will need 24 and 48 port units, 
Rx/Tx port mirroring is a must!

Thanks in advance,
Scott




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