Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

[Sidharth Nandury]

For anyone who is still dealing with Zoom issues on Mac computers
primarily, here are our findings (still troubleshooting the resolution):

We saw packets from wireless clients primarily being dropped every couple
of minutes, leading to a frozen screen/ delayed audio experience for users.
We confirmed dropped packets by using PingPlotter on the end client while
they were experiencing the issue and running a packet capture at the same
time on the end-client machine. What we found was ARP responses from the
client to search for the gateway were being delayed. The client sends out
an ARP request to find the gateway IP and the response is taking over 2-3
seconds leading to the packet being dropped. We can correlate the times of
the dropped packets to the ARP requests.

We have cases opened with our vendors to troubleshoot further. My question
to the wise people here is if anyone has seen this happen or gone further
than we have to resolve this issue?

Thank you.

Sid

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 10:18 AM Hales, David  wrote:

> Checking your session logs after a Zoom call would probably help quite a
> bit.  See if your sessions are staying UDP or if they’re switching to TLS.
> If most of them are staying UDP then you’ve probably got your rules set up
> right.
>
>
>
> *David M. Hales | *
> *Network Systems Administrator, Information Technology Services *
> *Tennessee Tech University *Clement Hall 117
> Cookeville, TN 38505-0001
> ph: 931-372-3983 | fax: 931-372-6130
> http://www.tntech.edu/its
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv <
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> *On Behalf Of *Sidharth Nandury
> *Sent:* Monday, February 15, 2021 3:09 PM
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues
>
>
>
> *External Email Warning*
>
> *This email originated from outside the university. Please use caution
> when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to requests.*
> --
>
> We did recently introduce NAT to our wireless subnets this semester and
> are trying to figure out whether the NAT and larger subnets are causing
> issues.
>
>
>
> Sid
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 3:38 PM James Helzerman  wrote:
>
> Someone mentioned NAT here and got me thinking if this affects NAT vs
> public address more than the other?
>
>
>
> For those having issues, are you NAT'ing on campus?  I dont recall seeing
> or hearing of many issues with Apple and zoom on our campus.  Of course it
> could be that they are not reported either so take my previous statement
> with a grain of salt.  We use public addresses.
>
>
>
> -Jimmy
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 1:39 PM Tim Tyler  wrote:
>
> Yes, they say both directions, but when I read the “source” column, I
> don’t see anything but zoom client in that column.  That implies to me 100%
> outbound for initiated sessions.
>
> I am concerned about the Mac issue having been brought up here
> though.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv [mailto:
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Hurt,Trenton W.
> *Sent:* Monday, February 15, 2021 9:32 AM
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues
>
>
>
> It says it right above the table listing all the ports and addresses
>
>
>
>
> Zoom firewall rules
>
> To configure your network firewall, please see the following table. All
> rules should be applied both inbound and outbound.
>
>
>
> Sent from my mobile device.
>
>
>
> Trent Hurt
>
>
>
> 5028521513
>
>
>
> University of Louisville
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv <
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> on behalf of Tim Tyler <
> ty...@beloit.edu>
> *Sent:* Monday, February 15, 2021 10:06 AM
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues
>
>
>
> *CAUTION:* This email originated from outside of our organization. Do not
> click links, open attachments, or respond unless you recognize the sender's
> email address and know the contents are safe.
>
> So I looked at that url mentioned in this dialogue and I didn’t see any
> requirements for inbound.  All sources from what I observed were rules for
> Zoom clients which from a firewall stand point would be outgoing.  I didn’t
> see any initiated sessions incoming requirements.
>
>I am curious.  Is anyone else interpreting this different

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

[Sidharth Nandury]

We did recently introduce NAT to our wireless subnets this semester and are
trying to figure out whether the NAT and larger subnets are causing issues.

Sid

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 3:38 PM James Helzerman  wrote:

> Someone mentioned NAT here and got me thinking if this affects NAT vs
> public address more than the other?
>
> For those having issues, are you NAT'ing on campus?  I dont recall seeing
> or hearing of many issues with Apple and zoom on our campus.  Of course it
> could be that they are not reported either so take my previous statement
> with a grain of salt.  We use public addresses.
>
> -Jimmy
>
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 1:39 PM Tim Tyler  wrote:
>
>> Yes, they say both directions, but when I read the “source” column, I
>> don’t see anything but zoom client in that column.  That implies to me 100%
>> outbound for initiated sessions.
>>
>> I am concerned about the Mac issue having been brought up here
>> though.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv [mailto:
>> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Hurt,Trenton W.
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 15, 2021 9:32 AM
>> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
>> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues
>>
>>
>>
>> It says it right above the table listing all the ports and addresses
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Zoom firewall rules
>>
>> To configure your network firewall, please see the following table. All
>> rules should be applied both inbound and outbound.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my mobile device.
>>
>>
>>
>> Trent Hurt
>>
>>
>>
>> 5028521513
>>
>>
>>
>> University of Louisville
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv <
>> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> on behalf of Tim Tyler <
>> ty...@beloit.edu>
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 15, 2021 10:06 AM
>> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
>> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues
>>
>>
>>
>> *CAUTION:* This email originated from outside of our organization. Do
>> not click links, open attachments, or respond unless you recognize the
>> sender's email address and know the contents are safe.
>>
>> So I looked at that url mentioned in this dialogue and I didn’t see any
>> requirements for inbound.  All sources from what I observed were rules for
>> Zoom clients which from a firewall stand point would be outgoing.  I didn’t
>> see any initiated sessions incoming requirements.
>>
>>I am curious.  Is anyone else interpreting this differently?
>>
>>
>>
>> I should note that I never set any incoming rules last semester and had
>> minimal complaints on zoom which would seem to affirm that one doesn’t need
>> an incoming rule.  Am I missing something here?
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv [mailto:
>> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Hales, David
>> *Sent:* Friday, February 12, 2021 4:25 PM
>> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
>> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues
>>
>>
>>
>> Are the blocks that you’re seeing coming from one of the Zoom subnets in
>> the listing?
>> https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201362683-Network-firewall-or-proxy-server-settings-for-Zoom
>> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsupport.zoom.us%2Fhc%2Fen-us%2Farticles%2F201362683-Network-firewall-or-proxy-server-settings-for-Zoom=04%7C01%7CTrent.hurt%40LOUISVILLE.EDU%7Cadb69f2efe2d4909aca308d8d1c34776%7Cdd246e4a54344e158ae391ad9797b209%7C0%7C0%7C637489983972731784%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=G1hZUMIepf6fF493PZym%2By%2BqtswOmcia78k%2FEiQMRhw%3D=0>
>> speicifies that all the subnets should be allowed both inbound and
>> outbound.  It might not all be bidirectional from the initially contacted
>> outbound destination.  Some responses might come from other servers in the
>> Zoom subnets depending on routing and what servers participants connect to
>> possibly.  That might explain the blocks you’re seeing.  I set up my
>> firewall with rules to allow inbound and outbound with those outside
>> subnets and the services they listed just 

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

[James Helzerman]

Someone mentioned NAT here and got me thinking if this affects NAT vs
public address more than the other?

For those having issues, are you NAT'ing on campus?  I dont recall seeing
or hearing of many issues with Apple and zoom on our campus.  Of course it
could be that they are not reported either so take my previous statement
with a grain of salt.  We use public addresses.

-Jimmy

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 1:39 PM Tim Tyler  wrote:

> Yes, they say both directions, but when I read the “source” column, I
> don’t see anything but zoom client in that column.  That implies to me 100%
> outbound for initiated sessions.
>
> I am concerned about the Mac issue having been brought up here
> though.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv [mailto:
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Hurt,Trenton W.
> *Sent:* Monday, February 15, 2021 9:32 AM
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues
>
>
>
> It says it right above the table listing all the ports and addresses
>
>
>
>
>
> Zoom firewall rules
>
> To configure your network firewall, please see the following table. All
> rules should be applied both inbound and outbound.
>
>
>
> Sent from my mobile device.
>
>
>
> Trent Hurt
>
>
>
> 5028521513
>
>
>
> University of Louisville
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv <
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> on behalf of Tim Tyler <
> ty...@beloit.edu>
> *Sent:* Monday, February 15, 2021 10:06 AM
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues
>
>
>
> *CAUTION:* This email originated from outside of our organization. Do not
> click links, open attachments, or respond unless you recognize the sender's
> email address and know the contents are safe.
>
> So I looked at that url mentioned in this dialogue and I didn’t see any
> requirements for inbound.  All sources from what I observed were rules for
> Zoom clients which from a firewall stand point would be outgoing.  I didn’t
> see any initiated sessions incoming requirements.
>
>I am curious.  Is anyone else interpreting this differently?
>
>
>
> I should note that I never set any incoming rules last semester and had
> minimal complaints on zoom which would seem to affirm that one doesn’t need
> an incoming rule.  Am I missing something here?
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv [mailto:
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Hales, David
> *Sent:* Friday, February 12, 2021 4:25 PM
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues
>
>
>
> Are the blocks that you’re seeing coming from one of the Zoom subnets in
> the listing?
> https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201362683-Network-firewall-or-proxy-server-settings-for-Zoom
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsupport.zoom.us%2Fhc%2Fen-us%2Farticles%2F201362683-Network-firewall-or-proxy-server-settings-for-Zoom=04%7C01%7CTrent.hurt%40LOUISVILLE.EDU%7Cadb69f2efe2d4909aca308d8d1c34776%7Cdd246e4a54344e158ae391ad9797b209%7C0%7C0%7C637489983972731784%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=G1hZUMIepf6fF493PZym%2By%2BqtswOmcia78k%2FEiQMRhw%3D=0>
> speicifies that all the subnets should be allowed both inbound and
> outbound.  It might not all be bidirectional from the initially contacted
> outbound destination.  Some responses might come from other servers in the
> Zoom subnets depending on routing and what servers participants connect to
> possibly.  That might explain the blocks you’re seeing.  I set up my
> firewall with rules to allow inbound and outbound with those outside
> subnets and the services they listed just in case some of the connections
> aren’t stateful since it might be doing some sort of multi-peering model.
>
>
>
> *David Hales*
>
> *Network Systems Administrator*
>
>
>
> Information Technology Services
>
> Tennessee Tech University
>
> 1010 N. Peachtree Av., CLEM117
>
> Cookeville, TN 38505
>
> *P:* 931-372-3983
>
> *E: *dha...@tntech.edu
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv <
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> *On Behalf Of *John Rodkey
> *Sent:* Friday, February 12, 2021 4:21 PM
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] 

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

[Tim Tyler]

Yes, they say both directions, but when I read the “source” column, I don’t
see anything but zoom client in that column.  That implies to me 100%
outbound for initiated sessions.

I am concerned about the Mac issue having been brought up here though.

Tim



*From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv [mailto:
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Hurt,Trenton W.
*Sent:* Monday, February 15, 2021 9:32 AM
*To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
*Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues



It says it right above the table listing all the ports and addresses





Zoom firewall rules

To configure your network firewall, please see the following table. All
rules should be applied both inbound and outbound.



Sent from my mobile device.



Trent Hurt



5028521513



University of Louisville












--

*From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv <
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> on behalf of Tim Tyler 
*Sent:* Monday, February 15, 2021 10:06 AM
*To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
*Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues



*CAUTION:* This email originated from outside of our organization. Do not
click links, open attachments, or respond unless you recognize the sender's
email address and know the contents are safe.

So I looked at that url mentioned in this dialogue and I didn’t see any
requirements for inbound.  All sources from what I observed were rules for
Zoom clients which from a firewall stand point would be outgoing.  I didn’t
see any initiated sessions incoming requirements.

   I am curious.  Is anyone else interpreting this differently?



I should note that I never set any incoming rules last semester and had
minimal complaints on zoom which would seem to affirm that one doesn’t need
an incoming rule.  Am I missing something here?

Tim



*From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv [mailto:
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Hales, David
*Sent:* Friday, February 12, 2021 4:25 PM
*To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
*Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues



Are the blocks that you’re seeing coming from one of the Zoom subnets in
the listing?
https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201362683-Network-firewall-or-proxy-server-settings-for-Zoom
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsupport.zoom.us%2Fhc%2Fen-us%2Farticles%2F201362683-Network-firewall-or-proxy-server-settings-for-Zoom=04%7C01%7CTrent.hurt%40LOUISVILLE.EDU%7Cadb69f2efe2d4909aca308d8d1c34776%7Cdd246e4a54344e158ae391ad9797b209%7C0%7C0%7C637489983972731784%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=G1hZUMIepf6fF493PZym%2By%2BqtswOmcia78k%2FEiQMRhw%3D=0>
speicifies that all the subnets should be allowed both inbound and
outbound.  It might not all be bidirectional from the initially contacted
outbound destination.  Some responses might come from other servers in the
Zoom subnets depending on routing and what servers participants connect to
possibly.  That might explain the blocks you’re seeing.  I set up my
firewall with rules to allow inbound and outbound with those outside
subnets and the services they listed just in case some of the connections
aren’t stateful since it might be doing some sort of multi-peering model.



*David Hales*

*Network Systems Administrator*



Information Technology Services

Tennessee Tech University

1010 N. Peachtree Av., CLEM117

Cookeville, TN 38505

*P:* 931-372-3983

*E: *dha...@tntech.edu



*From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv <
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> *On Behalf Of *John Rodkey
*Sent:* Friday, February 12, 2021 4:21 PM
*To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
*Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues



*External Email Warning*

*This email originated from outside the university. Please use caution when
opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to requests.*
--

These are all outbound 8801 connections?  We don't block outbound, but we
do block inbound, and our firewall is blocking a number on port 8801.

Zoom's Firewall article https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201362683
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsupport.zoom.us%2Fhc%2Fen-us%2Farticles%2F201362683=04%7C01%7CTrent.hurt%40LOUISVILLE.EDU%7Cadb69f2efe2d4909aca308d8d1c34776%7Cdd246e4a54344e158ae391ad9797b209%7C0%7C0%7C637489983972731784%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=APnjnCur72s2Vtc8x0LktbaY4%2Fj3z5XZ1IzCBrXdd68%3D=0>
only shows outbound as being required, but the inbound traffic is puzzling.



John Rodkey

Director of Servers and Networks

Westmont College



*Verification*: Unsure if this is a legitimate email to an email list? 

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

[Hurt,Trenton W.]

It says it right above the table listing all the ports and addresses


Zoom firewall rules

To configure your network firewall, please see the following table. All rules 
should be applied both inbound and outbound.

Sent from my mobile device.

Trent Hurt

5028521513

University of Louisville







From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 on behalf of Tim Tyler 
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 10:06 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of our organization. Do not click 
links, open attachments, or respond unless you recognize the sender's email 
address and know the contents are safe.
So I looked at that url mentioned in this dialogue and I didn’t see any 
requirements for inbound.  All sources from what I observed were rules for Zoom 
clients which from a firewall stand point would be outgoing.  I didn’t see any 
initiated sessions incoming requirements.
   I am curious.  Is anyone else interpreting this differently?

I should note that I never set any incoming rules last semester and had minimal 
complaints on zoom which would seem to affirm that one doesn’t need an incoming 
rule.  Am I missing something here?
Tim

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
[mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>]
 On Behalf Of Hales, David
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 4:25 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

Are the blocks that you’re seeing coming from one of the Zoom subnets in the 
listing?  
https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201362683-Network-firewall-or-proxy-server-settings-for-Zoom<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsupport.zoom.us%2Fhc%2Fen-us%2Farticles%2F201362683-Network-firewall-or-proxy-server-settings-for-Zoom=04%7C01%7CTrent.hurt%40LOUISVILLE.EDU%7Cadb69f2efe2d4909aca308d8d1c34776%7Cdd246e4a54344e158ae391ad9797b209%7C0%7C0%7C637489983972731784%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=G1hZUMIepf6fF493PZym%2By%2BqtswOmcia78k%2FEiQMRhw%3D=0>
 speicifies that all the subnets should be allowed both inbound and outbound.  
It might not all be bidirectional from the initially contacted outbound 
destination.  Some responses might come from other servers in the Zoom subnets 
depending on routing and what servers participants connect to possibly.  That 
might explain the blocks you’re seeing.  I set up my firewall with rules to 
allow inbound and outbound with those outside subnets and the services they 
listed just in case some of the connections aren’t stateful since it might be 
doing some sort of multi-peering model.

David Hales
Network Systems Administrator

Information Technology Services
Tennessee Tech University
1010 N. Peachtree Av., CLEM117
Cookeville, TN 38505
P: 931-372-3983
E: dha...@tntech.edu<mailto:dha...@tntech.edu>

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
On Behalf Of John Rodkey
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 4:21 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues


External Email Warning

This email originated from outside the university. Please use caution when 
opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to requests.


These are all outbound 8801 connections?  We don't block outbound, but we do 
block inbound, and our firewall is blocking a number on port 8801.
Zoom's Firewall article 
https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201362683<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsupport.zoom.us%2Fhc%2Fen-us%2Farticles%2F201362683=04%7C01%7CTrent.hurt%40LOUISVILLE.EDU%7Cadb69f2efe2d4909aca308d8d1c34776%7Cdd246e4a54344e158ae391ad9797b209%7C0%7C0%7C637489983972731784%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=APnjnCur72s2Vtc8x0LktbaY4%2Fj3z5XZ1IzCBrXdd68%3D=0>
 only shows outbound as being required, but the inbound traffic is puzzling.

John Rodkey
Director of Servers and Networks
Westmont College


Verification: Unsure if this is a legitimate email to an email list? Make sure 
it is recorded at 
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"God-fea

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

[Tim Tyler]

So I looked at that url mentioned in this dialogue and I didn’t see any
requirements for inbound.  All sources from what I observed were rules for
Zoom clients which from a firewall stand point would be outgoing.  I didn’t
see any initiated sessions incoming requirements.

   I am curious.  Is anyone else interpreting this differently?



I should note that I never set any incoming rules last semester and had
minimal complaints on zoom which would seem to affirm that one doesn’t need
an incoming rule.  Am I missing something here?

Tim



*From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv [mailto:
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Hales, David
*Sent:* Friday, February 12, 2021 4:25 PM
*To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
*Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues



Are the blocks that you’re seeing coming from one of the Zoom subnets in
the listing?
https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201362683-Network-firewall-or-proxy-server-settings-for-Zoom
speicifies that all the subnets should be allowed both inbound and
outbound.  It might not all be bidirectional from the initially contacted
outbound destination.  Some responses might come from other servers in the
Zoom subnets depending on routing and what servers participants connect to
possibly.  That might explain the blocks you’re seeing.  I set up my
firewall with rules to allow inbound and outbound with those outside
subnets and the services they listed just in case some of the connections
aren’t stateful since it might be doing some sort of multi-peering model.



*David Hales*

*Network Systems Administrator*



Information Technology Services

Tennessee Tech University

1010 N. Peachtree Av., CLEM117

Cookeville, TN 38505

*P:* 931-372-3983

*E: *dha...@tntech.edu



*From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv <
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> *On Behalf Of *John Rodkey
*Sent:* Friday, February 12, 2021 4:21 PM
*To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
*Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues



*External Email Warning*

*This email originated from outside the university. Please use caution when
opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to requests.*
--

These are all outbound 8801 connections?  We don't block outbound, but we
do block inbound, and our firewall is blocking a number on port 8801.

Zoom's Firewall article https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201362683
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsupport.zoom.us%2Fhc%2Fen-us%2Farticles%2F201362683=04%7C01%7Cdhales%40TNTECH.EDU%7Ca1ecda501cba4786e73f08d8cfa486e5%7C66fecaf83dc04d2cb8b8eff0ddea46f0%7C1%7C0%7C637487652852814862%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=34FdYZVIioEYWareSQ4%2F19R66Bm2CT9ChuKDL7K00H0%3D=0>
only shows outbound as being required, but the inbound traffic is puzzling.



John Rodkey

Director of Servers and Networks

Westmont College



*Verification*: Unsure if this is a legitimate email to an email list? Make
sure it is recorded at *https://my.westmont.edu/it_emails
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmy.westmont.edu%2Fit_emails=04%7C01%7Cdhales%40TNTECH.EDU%7Ca1ecda501cba4786e73f08d8cfa486e5%7C66fecaf83dc04d2cb8b8eff0ddea46f0%7C1%7C0%7C637487652852814862%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=iykcnNkUJPDZ57IULJkWH3IpqfB1DgdNNPjvIFPx650%3D=0>*



"*God-fearing faith... is neither brash nor foolhardy and does not tempt
God."* - Martin Luther





On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 8:54 AM Hales, David  wrote:

Zoom starts out trying UDP/8801, then if that fails goes to TCP/8801.  Then
if that fails it runs SSL on TCP/443.  Then if that fails the user has to
use the web client over http/https.  You can find the networks needed in an
automatically updated text list format for linking to dynamic firewall
rules at the follow URLs:



https://assets.zoom.us/docs/ipranges/ZoomMeetings.txt
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.zoom.us%2Fdocs%2Fipranges%2FZoomMeetings.txt=04%7C01%7Cdhales%40TNTECH.EDU%7Ca1ecda501cba4786e73f08d8cfa486e5%7C66fecaf83dc04d2cb8b8eff0ddea46f0%7C1%7C0%7C637487652852824862%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=hcxNiIn7m7zw%2FuXg8ArW%2BnjwC1tzIYVkZc%2FVEIEEc4Y%3D=0>

https://assets.zoom.us/docs/ipranges/Zoom.txt
<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.zoom.us%2Fdocs%2Fipranges%2FZoom.txt=04%7C01%7Cdhales%40TNTECH.EDU%7Ca1ecda501cba4786e73f08d8cfa486e5%7C66fecaf83dc04d2cb8b8eff0ddea46f0%7C1%7C0%7C637487652852824862%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=XZegHQF7qWMlDcNdUKCThT0XOmGwoJ%2Bh%2FiM6wOR6L0E%3D=0>



That bein

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

[Hales, David]

Are the blocks that you’re seeing coming from one of the Zoom subnets in the 
listing?  
https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201362683-Network-firewall-or-proxy-server-settings-for-Zoom
 speicifies that all the subnets should be allowed both inbound and outbound.  
It might not all be bidirectional from the initially contacted outbound 
destination.  Some responses might come from other servers in the Zoom subnets 
depending on routing and what servers participants connect to possibly.  That 
might explain the blocks you’re seeing.  I set up my firewall with rules to 
allow inbound and outbound with those outside subnets and the services they 
listed just in case some of the connections aren’t stateful since it might be 
doing some sort of multi-peering model.

David Hales
Network Systems Administrator

Information Technology Services
Tennessee Tech University
1010 N. Peachtree Av., CLEM117
Cookeville, TN 38505
P: 931-372-3983
E: dha...@tntech.edu<mailto:dha...@tntech.edu>

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of John Rodkey
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 4:21 PM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues


External Email Warning

This email originated from outside the university. Please use caution when 
opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to requests.


These are all outbound 8801 connections?  We don't block outbound, but we do 
block inbound, and our firewall is blocking a number on port 8801.
Zoom's Firewall article 
https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201362683<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsupport.zoom.us%2Fhc%2Fen-us%2Farticles%2F201362683=04%7C01%7Cdhales%40TNTECH.EDU%7Ca1ecda501cba4786e73f08d8cfa486e5%7C66fecaf83dc04d2cb8b8eff0ddea46f0%7C1%7C0%7C637487652852814862%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=34FdYZVIioEYWareSQ4%2F19R66Bm2CT9ChuKDL7K00H0%3D=0>
 only shows outbound as being required, but the inbound traffic is puzzling.

John Rodkey
Director of Servers and Networks
Westmont College


Verification: Unsure if this is a legitimate email to an email list? Make sure 
it is recorded at 
https://my.westmont.edu/it_emails<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmy.westmont.edu%2Fit_emails=04%7C01%7Cdhales%40TNTECH.EDU%7Ca1ecda501cba4786e73f08d8cfa486e5%7C66fecaf83dc04d2cb8b8eff0ddea46f0%7C1%7C0%7C637487652852814862%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=iykcnNkUJPDZ57IULJkWH3IpqfB1DgdNNPjvIFPx650%3D=0>



"God-fearing faith... is neither brash nor foolhardy and does not tempt God." - 
Martin Luther


On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 8:54 AM Hales, David 
mailto:dha...@tntech.edu>> wrote:
Zoom starts out trying UDP/8801, then if that fails goes to TCP/8801.  Then if 
that fails it runs SSL on TCP/443.  Then if that fails the user has to use the 
web client over http/https.  You can find the networks needed in an 
automatically updated text list format for linking to dynamic firewall rules at 
the follow URLs:

https://assets.zoom.us/docs/ipranges/ZoomMeetings.txt<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.zoom.us%2Fdocs%2Fipranges%2FZoomMeetings.txt=04%7C01%7Cdhales%40TNTECH.EDU%7Ca1ecda501cba4786e73f08d8cfa486e5%7C66fecaf83dc04d2cb8b8eff0ddea46f0%7C1%7C0%7C637487652852824862%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=hcxNiIn7m7zw%2FuXg8ArW%2BnjwC1tzIYVkZc%2FVEIEEc4Y%3D=0>
https://assets.zoom.us/docs/ipranges/Zoom.txt<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.zoom.us%2Fdocs%2Fipranges%2FZoom.txt=04%7C01%7Cdhales%40TNTECH.EDU%7Ca1ecda501cba4786e73f08d8cfa486e5%7C66fecaf83dc04d2cb8b8eff0ddea46f0%7C1%7C0%7C637487652852824862%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=XZegHQF7qWMlDcNdUKCThT0XOmGwoJ%2Bh%2FiM6wOR6L0E%3D=0>

That being said, this fallback process is at call setup.  Once the call is up 
and running, if you’re seeing client association issues, then the Zoom 
disconnects or hangs that follow those are just symptoms of whatever is causing 
the wireless issues between the client and the AP.

David Hales
Network Systems Administrator

Information Technology Services
Tennessee Tech University
1010 N. Peachtree Av., CLEM117
Cookeville, TN 38505
P: 931-372-3983
E: dha...@tntech.edu<mailto:dha...@tntech.edu>

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
On Behalf Of Sullivan, Don
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 10:01 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues


External Email Wa

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

[John Rodkey]

These are all outbound 8801 connections?  We don't block outbound, but we
do block inbound, and our firewall is blocking a number on port 8801.
Zoom's Firewall article https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201362683
only shows outbound as being required, but the inbound traffic is puzzling.

John Rodkey
Director of Servers and Networks
Westmont College

Verification: Unsure if this is a legitimate email to an email list? Make
sure it is recorded at https://my.westmont.edu/it_emails


"*God-fearing faith... is neither brash nor foolhardy and does not tempt
God."* - Martin Luther


On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 8:54 AM Hales, David  wrote:

> Zoom starts out trying UDP/8801, then if that fails goes to TCP/8801.
> Then if that fails it runs SSL on TCP/443.  Then if that fails the user has
> to use the web client over http/https.  You can find the networks needed in
> an automatically updated text list format for linking to dynamic firewall
> rules at the follow URLs:
>
>
>
> https://assets.zoom.us/docs/ipranges/ZoomMeetings.txt
>
> https://assets.zoom.us/docs/ipranges/Zoom.txt
>
>
>
> That being said, this fallback process is at call setup.  Once the call is
> up and running, if you’re seeing client association issues, then the Zoom
> disconnects or hangs that follow those are just symptoms of whatever is
> causing the wireless issues between the client and the AP.
>
>
>
> *David Hales*
>
> *Network Systems Administrator*
>
>
>
> Information Technology Services
>
> Tennessee Tech University
>
> 1010 N. Peachtree Av., CLEM117
>
> Cookeville, TN 38505
>
> *P:* 931-372-3983
>
> *E: *dha...@tntech.edu
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv <
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> *On Behalf Of *Sullivan, Don
> *Sent:* Friday, February 12, 2021 10:01 AM
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues
>
>
>
> *External Email Warning*
>
> *This email originated from outside the university. Please use caution
> when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to requests.*
> --
>
> Ok, I’m going to throw something out there that may sound stupid, but I am
> ok with appearing stupid. When a client initiates a zoom call is that done
> via UDP or TCP? If it is done via UDP, can the session fail over to using
> TCP SSL connectivity in the middle of the call? Can that in turn create a
> situation where the wireless session disassociates and then tries to
> reassociate? I ask these questions because when I have been looking at
> drops during a Zoom call I have been seeing the wireless client
> disassociating and re associating at the same time the Zoom dashboard says
> the client lost their network connection. Those of you using Voyance (ENI)
> will see it in the time line as a “bad roam”. I am wondering if I am seeing
> a wireless network issue or is it a client and/or Zoom issue. I have seen
> it on both Windows and Macs. Just wondering if this is a one off or
> consistent with what others are seeing.
>
>
>
> *Don Sullivan*
>
> *Network Administrator*
>
> *Technology Services*
>
>
>
> 205-726-2111 <+1205-726-2111> | office
>
> dsulli...@samford.edu
>
> LinkedIn
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flinkedin.com%2Fin%2Fdonaldasullivan=04%7C01%7Cdhales%40TNTECH.EDU%7C139667bc5ebe4b9ef07208d8cf6f71f3%7C66fecaf83dc04d2cb8b8eff0ddea46f0%7C1%7C0%7C637487424856917823%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=l9y2yWdXgafEV3Mv5agMLCQW4b9EhWXX64vgXesEzzY%3D=0>
>
> www.samford.edu
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.samford.edu%2F=04%7C01%7Cdhales%40TNTECH.EDU%7C139667bc5ebe4b9ef07208d8cf6f71f3%7C66fecaf83dc04d2cb8b8eff0ddea46f0%7C1%7C0%7C637487424856927814%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=qwWHuNk%2BydBuxM%2FLl2Ko%2FU6gFKLsqzuEFE8sXsuKz%2FA%3D=0>
>
> 800 Lakeshore Drive
> Birmingham, AL 35229
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmaps.google.com%2Fmaps%3Fq%3D800%2BLakeshore%2BDrive%2C%2BBirmingham%2C%2BAL%2B35229%2C%2BUS=04%7C01%7Cdhales%40TNTECH.EDU%7C139667bc5ebe4b9ef07208d8cf6f71f3%7C66fecaf83dc04d2cb8b8eff0ddea46f0%7C1%7C0%7C637487424856927814%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=KWFea%2FK%2FVhOAyGZIVmC1wtw0CyXZ7Q%2BWGMD0tDhNlTM%3D=0>
>
>
>
> [image: Samford Samford University Logo]
>
>
>
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv <
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

[Sullivan, Don]

Thanks David!

Don Sullivan
Network Administrator
Technology Services

205-726-2111 | office
dsulli...@samford.edu<mailto:dsulli...@samford.edu>
LinkedIn<http://linkedin.com/in/donaldasullivan>
www.samford.edu<http://www.samford.edu>
800 Lakeshore Drive
Birmingham, AL 
35229<https://maps.google.com/maps?q=800+Lakeshore+Drive,+Birmingham,+AL+35229,+US>

[Samford Samford University Logo]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Hales, David
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 10:54
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

Zoom starts out trying UDP/8801, then if that fails goes to TCP/8801.  Then if 
that fails it runs SSL on TCP/443.  Then if that fails the user has to use the 
web client over http/https.  You can find the networks needed in an 
automatically updated text list format for linking to dynamic firewall rules at 
the follow URLs:

https://assets.zoom.us/docs/ipranges/ZoomMeetings.txt
https://assets.zoom.us/docs/ipranges/Zoom.txt

That being said, this fallback process is at call setup.  Once the call is up 
and running, if you’re seeing client association issues, then the Zoom 
disconnects or hangs that follow those are just symptoms of whatever is causing 
the wireless issues between the client and the AP.

David Hales
Network Systems Administrator

Information Technology Services
Tennessee Tech University
1010 N. Peachtree Av., CLEM117
Cookeville, TN 38505
P: 931-372-3983
E: dha...@tntech.edu<mailto:dha...@tntech.edu>

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
On Behalf Of Sullivan, Don
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 10:01 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues


External Email Warning

This email originated from outside the university. Please use caution when 
opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to requests.


Ok, I’m going to throw something out there that may sound stupid, but I am ok 
with appearing stupid. When a client initiates a zoom call is that done via UDP 
or TCP? If it is done via UDP, can the session fail over to using TCP SSL 
connectivity in the middle of the call? Can that in turn create a situation 
where the wireless session disassociates and then tries to reassociate? I ask 
these questions because when I have been looking at drops during a Zoom call I 
have been seeing the wireless client disassociating and re associating at the 
same time the Zoom dashboard says the client lost their network connection. 
Those of you using Voyance (ENI) will see it in the time line as a “bad roam”. 
I am wondering if I am seeing a wireless network issue or is it a client and/or 
Zoom issue. I have seen it on both Windows and Macs. Just wondering if this is 
a one off or consistent with what others are seeing.

Don Sullivan
Network Administrator
Technology Services

205-726-2111 | office
dsulli...@samford.edu<mailto:dsulli...@samford.edu>
LinkedIn<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flinkedin.com%2Fin%2Fdonaldasullivan=04%7C01%7Cdhales%40TNTECH.EDU%7C139667bc5ebe4b9ef07208d8cf6f71f3%7C66fecaf83dc04d2cb8b8eff0ddea46f0%7C1%7C0%7C637487424856917823%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=l9y2yWdXgafEV3Mv5agMLCQW4b9EhWXX64vgXesEzzY%3D=0>
www.samford.edu<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.samford.edu%2F=04%7C01%7Cdhales%40TNTECH.EDU%7C139667bc5ebe4b9ef07208d8cf6f71f3%7C66fecaf83dc04d2cb8b8eff0ddea46f0%7C1%7C0%7C637487424856927814%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=qwWHuNk%2BydBuxM%2FLl2Ko%2FU6gFKLsqzuEFE8sXsuKz%2FA%3D=0>
800 Lakeshore Drive
Birmingham, AL 
35229<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmaps.google.com%2Fmaps%3Fq%3D800%2BLakeshore%2BDrive%2C%2BBirmingham%2C%2BAL%2B35229%2C%2BUS=04%7C01%7Cdhales%40TNTECH.EDU%7C139667bc5ebe4b9ef07208d8cf6f71f3%7C66fecaf83dc04d2cb8b8eff0ddea46f0%7C1%7C0%7C637487424856927814%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=KWFea%2FK%2FVhOAyGZIVmC1wtw0CyXZ7Q%2BWGMD0tDhNlTM%3D=0>

[Samford Samford University Logo]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
On Behalf Of Hales, David
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 09:21
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

I was just following this thread along until a ticket dropped in my lap this 
morning with a large Zoom session that apparently was cratering all over the 
place.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

[Hales, David]

Zoom starts out trying UDP/8801, then if that fails goes to TCP/8801.  Then if 
that fails it runs SSL on TCP/443.  Then if that fails the user has to use the 
web client over http/https.  You can find the networks needed in an 
automatically updated text list format for linking to dynamic firewall rules at 
the follow URLs:

https://assets.zoom.us/docs/ipranges/ZoomMeetings.txt
https://assets.zoom.us/docs/ipranges/Zoom.txt

That being said, this fallback process is at call setup.  Once the call is up 
and running, if you’re seeing client association issues, then the Zoom 
disconnects or hangs that follow those are just symptoms of whatever is causing 
the wireless issues between the client and the AP.

David Hales
Network Systems Administrator

Information Technology Services
Tennessee Tech University
1010 N. Peachtree Av., CLEM117
Cookeville, TN 38505
P: 931-372-3983
E: dha...@tntech.edu<mailto:dha...@tntech.edu>

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Sullivan, Don
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 10:01 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues


External Email Warning

This email originated from outside the university. Please use caution when 
opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to requests.


Ok, I’m going to throw something out there that may sound stupid, but I am ok 
with appearing stupid. When a client initiates a zoom call is that done via UDP 
or TCP? If it is done via UDP, can the session fail over to using TCP SSL 
connectivity in the middle of the call? Can that in turn create a situation 
where the wireless session disassociates and then tries to reassociate? I ask 
these questions because when I have been looking at drops during a Zoom call I 
have been seeing the wireless client disassociating and re associating at the 
same time the Zoom dashboard says the client lost their network connection. 
Those of you using Voyance (ENI) will see it in the time line as a “bad roam”. 
I am wondering if I am seeing a wireless network issue or is it a client and/or 
Zoom issue. I have seen it on both Windows and Macs. Just wondering if this is 
a one off or consistent with what others are seeing.

Don Sullivan
Network Administrator
Technology Services

205-726-2111 | office
dsulli...@samford.edu<mailto:dsulli...@samford.edu>
LinkedIn<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flinkedin.com%2Fin%2Fdonaldasullivan=04%7C01%7Cdhales%40TNTECH.EDU%7C139667bc5ebe4b9ef07208d8cf6f71f3%7C66fecaf83dc04d2cb8b8eff0ddea46f0%7C1%7C0%7C637487424856917823%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=l9y2yWdXgafEV3Mv5agMLCQW4b9EhWXX64vgXesEzzY%3D=0>
www.samford.edu<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.samford.edu%2F=04%7C01%7Cdhales%40TNTECH.EDU%7C139667bc5ebe4b9ef07208d8cf6f71f3%7C66fecaf83dc04d2cb8b8eff0ddea46f0%7C1%7C0%7C637487424856927814%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=qwWHuNk%2BydBuxM%2FLl2Ko%2FU6gFKLsqzuEFE8sXsuKz%2FA%3D=0>
800 Lakeshore Drive
Birmingham, AL 
35229<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmaps.google.com%2Fmaps%3Fq%3D800%2BLakeshore%2BDrive%2C%2BBirmingham%2C%2BAL%2B35229%2C%2BUS=04%7C01%7Cdhales%40TNTECH.EDU%7C139667bc5ebe4b9ef07208d8cf6f71f3%7C66fecaf83dc04d2cb8b8eff0ddea46f0%7C1%7C0%7C637487424856927814%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=KWFea%2FK%2FVhOAyGZIVmC1wtw0CyXZ7Q%2BWGMD0tDhNlTM%3D=0>

[Samford Samford University Logo]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
On Behalf Of Hales, David
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 09:21
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

I was just following this thread along until a ticket dropped in my lap this 
morning with a large Zoom session that apparently was cratering all over the 
place.  After reviewing the connection report from Zoom for the session in 
question, there’s a pretty strong correlation between clients connecting over 
SSL having very absurdly high latency and jitter as opposed to clients 
connecting via UDP.  There were a handful of folks in the session off campus 
and those running SSL had the same problems.

Of course, there were far fewer off campus folks running SSL type connections 
since most home routers let just about anything go outbound.  If this ends up 
being a cause of major issues, then folks switching to hotspots will indeed 
feel like that solved their problems in many cases, causing them to further 
curse the “crappy campus network”. ☹

Zoom uses a fallback to TCP/443 SSL connectivity when it 

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

[Tomo]

Making sure you have the UDP ports permitted for Zoom is important to ensure 
quality.
Whilst Zoom will work with just TCP 80 and 443 enabled, clients that are 
restricted to using those ports will more frequently run into quality issues, 
and from our experience will more frequently be forced to loadbalance between 
different Zoom data centres mid-call. If you have access to your Zoom admin 
portal with relevant rights it can give you a good deal of granularity on where 
specific client connections on specific calls went wrong.

https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/201362683-Network-firewall-or-proxy-server-settings-for-Zoom

As an aside, MS Teams also uses UDP 3478 and 3479, but also 3480 and 3481, so 
if you were going to be adding some rules to help permit realtime calls and 
were not going to restrict it to published IP ranges adding those two extra 
ports might help you.

__

Tomo | Infrastructure Architect | Information Technology – Operations and 
Assurance
London Business School | Regent's Park | London NW1 4SA | UK
D: +44 (0)20 7000   | T: +44 (0)20 7000 7000
E: t...@london.edu<mailto:t...@london.edu> | W: 
www.london.edu<http://www.london.edu/>
Connect with us: LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/school/5954> | 
Twitter<https://twitter.com/LBS> | 
Facebook<http://www.facebook.com/pages/London-United-Kingdom/London-Business-School/14027365105>
 | Instagram<https://www.instagram.com/londonbschool/?hl=en>

[cid:image002.jpg@01D7015C.1827F5D0]


From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Sullivan, Don
Sent: 12 February 2021 16:01
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

Ok, I’m going to throw something out there that may sound stupid, but I am ok 
with appearing stupid. When a client initiates a zoom call is that done via UDP 
or TCP? If it is done via UDP, can the session fail over to using TCP SSL 
connectivity in the middle of the call? Can that in turn create a situation 
where the wireless session disassociates and then tries to reassociate? I ask 
these questions because when I have been looking at drops during a Zoom call I 
have been seeing the wireless client disassociating and re associating at the 
same time the Zoom dashboard says the client lost their network connection. 
Those of you using Voyance (ENI) will see it in the time line as a “bad roam”. 
I am wondering if I am seeing a wireless network issue or is it a client and/or 
Zoom issue. I have seen it on both Windows and Macs. Just wondering if this is 
a one off or consistent with what others are seeing.

Don Sullivan
Network Administrator
Technology Services

205-726-2111 | office
dsulli...@samford.edu<mailto:dsulli...@samford.edu>
LinkedIn<http://linkedin.com/in/donaldasullivan>
www.samford.edu<http://www.samford.edu>
800 Lakeshore Drive
Birmingham, AL 
35229<https://maps.google.com/maps?q=800+Lakeshore+Drive,+Birmingham,+AL+35229,+US>

[Samford Samford University Logo]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
On Behalf Of Hales, David
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 09:21
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

I was just following this thread along until a ticket dropped in my lap this 
morning with a large Zoom session that apparently was cratering all over the 
place.  After reviewing the connection report from Zoom for the session in 
question, there’s a pretty strong correlation between clients connecting over 
SSL having very absurdly high latency and jitter as opposed to clients 
connecting via UDP.  There were a handful of folks in the session off campus 
and those running SSL had the same problems.

Of course, there were far fewer off campus folks running SSL type connections 
since most home routers let just about anything go outbound.  If this ends up 
being a cause of major issues, then folks switching to hotspots will indeed 
feel like that solved their problems in many cases, causing them to further 
curse the “crappy campus network”. ☹

Zoom uses a fallback to TCP/443 SSL connectivity when it can’t get through on 
its default UDP port (8801) or TCP port (8801).  I’m starting to suspect that 
the SSL fallback might have some significant issues and am going to investigate 
allowing the UDP connections through our firewalls for Zoom sessions.  I’d be 
curious to see if any of the other folks getting big spikes of Zoom complaints 
could provide further corroboration for this theory?

David Hales
Network Systems Administrator

Information Technology Services
Tennessee Tech University
1010 N. Peachtree Av., CLEM117
Cookeville, TN 38505
P: 931-372-3983
E: dha...@tntech.edu<mailto:dha.

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

[Sullivan, Don]

Ok, I’m going to throw something out there that may sound stupid, but I am ok 
with appearing stupid. When a client initiates a zoom call is that done via UDP 
or TCP? If it is done via UDP, can the session fail over to using TCP SSL 
connectivity in the middle of the call? Can that in turn create a situation 
where the wireless session disassociates and then tries to reassociate? I ask 
these questions because when I have been looking at drops during a Zoom call I 
have been seeing the wireless client disassociating and re associating at the 
same time the Zoom dashboard says the client lost their network connection. 
Those of you using Voyance (ENI) will see it in the time line as a “bad roam”. 
I am wondering if I am seeing a wireless network issue or is it a client and/or 
Zoom issue. I have seen it on both Windows and Macs. Just wondering if this is 
a one off or consistent with what others are seeing.

Don Sullivan
Network Administrator
Technology Services

205-726-2111 | office
dsulli...@samford.edu<mailto:dsulli...@samford.edu>
LinkedIn<http://linkedin.com/in/donaldasullivan>
www.samford.edu<http://www.samford.edu>
800 Lakeshore Drive
Birmingham, AL 
35229<https://maps.google.com/maps?q=800+Lakeshore+Drive,+Birmingham,+AL+35229,+US>

[Samford Samford University Logo]

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Hales, David
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 09:21
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

I was just following this thread along until a ticket dropped in my lap this 
morning with a large Zoom session that apparently was cratering all over the 
place.  After reviewing the connection report from Zoom for the session in 
question, there’s a pretty strong correlation between clients connecting over 
SSL having very absurdly high latency and jitter as opposed to clients 
connecting via UDP.  There were a handful of folks in the session off campus 
and those running SSL had the same problems.

Of course, there were far fewer off campus folks running SSL type connections 
since most home routers let just about anything go outbound.  If this ends up 
being a cause of major issues, then folks switching to hotspots will indeed 
feel like that solved their problems in many cases, causing them to further 
curse the “crappy campus network”. ☹

Zoom uses a fallback to TCP/443 SSL connectivity when it can’t get through on 
its default UDP port (8801) or TCP port (8801).  I’m starting to suspect that 
the SSL fallback might have some significant issues and am going to investigate 
allowing the UDP connections through our firewalls for Zoom sessions.  I’d be 
curious to see if any of the other folks getting big spikes of Zoom complaints 
could provide further corroboration for this theory?

David Hales
Network Systems Administrator

Information Technology Services
Tennessee Tech University
1010 N. Peachtree Av., CLEM117
Cookeville, TN 38505
P: 931-372-3983
E: dha...@tntech.edu<mailto:dha...@tntech.edu>

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 9:00 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues


External Email Warning

This email originated from outside the university. Please use caution when 
opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to requests.


The by-product? “The campus network sucks. I’m using my hotspot…” let the fun 
begin.

Lee Badman | Network Architect (CWNE#200)
Information Technology Services
(NDD Group)
206 Machinery Hall
120 Smith Drive
Syracuse, New York 13244
t 315.443.3003   e lhbad...@syr.edu<mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu> w its.syr.edu
Campus Wireless Policy: 
https://answers.syr.edu/display/network/Wireless+Network+and+Systems<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fanswers.syr.edu%2Fdisplay%2Fnetwork%2FWireless%2BNetwork%2Band%2BSystems=04%7C01%7Cdhales%40TNTECH.EDU%7Cf9c24e66008d44c9ba3008d8cf66e38c%7C66fecaf83dc04d2cb8b8eff0ddea46f0%7C1%7C0%7C637487388942481031%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000=MVhMjqyXtUSw4zPhs8hw9f%2B0J5oiuZCaxmzv7HTwALw%3D=0>
SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
syr.edu

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
On Behalf Of Ian Lyons
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 9:54 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

We had a huge upswell of Mac users not being able to connect and the newest OS 
was at fault. Older macs further away...no issues. Mac's with new OS right 
under an AP... couldnt 

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

[Hales, David]

I was just following this thread along until a ticket dropped in my lap this 
morning with a large Zoom session that apparently was cratering all over the 
place.  After reviewing the connection report from Zoom for the session in 
question, there’s a pretty strong correlation between clients connecting over 
SSL having very absurdly high latency and jitter as opposed to clients 
connecting via UDP.  There were a handful of folks in the session off campus 
and those running SSL had the same problems.

Of course, there were far fewer off campus folks running SSL type connections 
since most home routers let just about anything go outbound.  If this ends up 
being a cause of major issues, then folks switching to hotspots will indeed 
feel like that solved their problems in many cases, causing them to further 
curse the “crappy campus network”. ☹

Zoom uses a fallback to TCP/443 SSL connectivity when it can’t get through on 
its default UDP port (8801) or TCP port (8801).  I’m starting to suspect that 
the SSL fallback might have some significant issues and am going to investigate 
allowing the UDP connections through our firewalls for Zoom sessions.  I’d be 
curious to see if any of the other folks getting big spikes of Zoom complaints 
could provide further corroboration for this theory?

David Hales
Network Systems Administrator

Information Technology Services
Tennessee Tech University
1010 N. Peachtree Av., CLEM117
Cookeville, TN 38505
P: 931-372-3983
E: dha...@tntech.edu<mailto:dha...@tntech.edu>

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Lee H Badman
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 9:00 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues


External Email Warning

This email originated from outside the university. Please use caution when 
opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to requests.


The by-product? “The campus network sucks. I’m using my hotspot…” let the fun 
begin.

Lee Badman | Network Architect (CWNE#200)
Information Technology Services
(NDD Group)
206 Machinery Hall
120 Smith Drive
Syracuse, New York 13244
t 315.443.3003   e lhbad...@syr.edu<mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu> w its.syr.edu
Campus Wireless Policy: 
https://answers.syr.edu/display/network/Wireless+Network+and+Systems<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fanswers.syr.edu%2Fdisplay%2Fnetwork%2FWireless%2BNetwork%2Band%2BSystems=04%7C01%7Cdhales%40TNTECH.EDU%7Cf9c24e66008d44c9ba3008d8cf66e38c%7C66fecaf83dc04d2cb8b8eff0ddea46f0%7C1%7C0%7C637487388942481031%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000=MVhMjqyXtUSw4zPhs8hw9f%2B0J5oiuZCaxmzv7HTwALw%3D=0>
SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
syr.edu

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
On Behalf Of Ian Lyons
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 9:54 AM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

We had a huge upswell of Mac users not being able to connect and the newest OS 
was at fault. Older macs further away...no issues. Mac's with new OS right 
under an AP... couldnt connect reliably, huge CPU spikes and or crappy wifi.

Ahh, I love Apple.

But yeah, in this instance, dont discount the OS.

Ian

Cheers
Ian J Lyons
Network Architect - Rollins College
401.413.1661 Cell
407.628.6396 Desk




From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of Julian Y Koh 
mailto:kohs...@northwestern.edu>>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 9:35
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues


* External Email *



On Feb 12, 2021, at 07:56, Sidharth Nandury 
mailto:nandu...@denison.edu>> wrote:

We are an Aruba shop at Denison University and have received reports of issues 
on Zoom and Google Meet as well mostly on Mac OS. Looking into the Zoom 
dashboard statistics of some of these calls we are seeing the "Max Loss" 
percentage go up to 99% frequently and back down to 2-6 % on wireless when 
there are no issues. We can generally co-relate this to higher ping responses. 
I would also love to what other Universities are doing to look at this.

This thread reminded me of a recent on on the NANOG mailing list about Macs and 
wireless issues.  Go to 
https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2020-October/thread.html<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nanog.org%2Fpipermail%2Fnanog%2F2020-October%2Fthread.html=04%7C01%7Cdhales%40TNTECH.EDU%7Cf9c24e66008d44c9ba3008d8cf66e38c%

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

[Ian Lyons]



Cheers
Ian J Lyons
Network Architect - Rollins College
401.413.1661 Cell
407.628.6396 Desk




From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 on behalf of Lee H Badman 
<00db5b77bd95-dmarc-requ...@listserv.educause.edu>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 10:00
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues


* External Email *


The by-product? “The campus network sucks. I’m using my hotspot…” let the fun 
begin.



Lee Badman | Network Architect (CWNE#200)

Information Technology Services
(NDD Group)
206 Machinery Hall
120 Smith Drive
Syracuse, New York 13244

t 315.443.3003   e lhbad...@syr.edu<mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu> w its.syr.edu

Campus Wireless Policy: 
https://answers.syr.edu/display/network/Wireless+Network+and+Systems<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fanswers.syr.edu%2Fdisplay%2Fnetwork%2FWireless%2BNetwork%2Band%2BSystems=04%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7C03dd5f32dffb49bb631508d8cf66e372%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C637487388111347189%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=iij%2FfpPDj%2FrOxd3jD704DN5AG%2FfY1Pdo2XKa7CLJeW4%3D=0>

SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
syr.edu



From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Ian Lyons
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 9:54 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues



We had a huge upswell of Mac users not being able to connect and the newest OS 
was at fault. Older macs further away...no issues. Mac's with new OS right 
under an AP... couldnt connect reliably, huge CPU spikes and or crappy wifi.



Ahh, I love Apple.



But yeah, in this instance, dont discount the OS.



Ian



Cheers

Ian J Lyons

Network Architect - Rollins College

401.413.1661 Cell

407.628.6396 Desk









From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of Julian Y Koh 
mailto:kohs...@northwestern.edu>>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 9:35
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues



* External Email *







On Feb 12, 2021, at 07:56, Sidharth Nandury 
mailto:nandu...@denison.edu>> wrote:



We are an Aruba shop at Denison University and have received reports of issues 
on Zoom and Google Meet as well mostly on Mac OS. Looking into the Zoom 
dashboard statistics of some of these calls we are seeing the "Max Loss" 
percentage go up to 99% frequently and back down to 2-6 % on wireless when 
there are no issues. We can generally co-relate this to higher ping responses. 
I would also love to what other Universities are doing to look at this.



This thread reminded me of a recent on on the NANOG mailing list about Macs and 
wireless issues.  Go to 
https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2020-October/thread.html<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nanog.org%2Fpipermail%2Fnanog%2F2020-October%2Fthread.html=04%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7C03dd5f32dffb49bb631508d8cf66e372%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C637487388111347189%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=AWBnus0gdqt1pVeverISTzmkwuGzmiInIUxhGSgk%2BqU%3D=0>
 and look at the thread titled "Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive 
Jitter”.  I can’t remember all of the details but the tl;dr summary that I 
remember involved some interaction between Bluetooth, possibly Location 
Services, and Wi-Fi.





--
Julian Y. Koh
Associate Director, Telecommunications and Network Services
Northwestern Information Technology

2020 Ridge Avenue #331
Evanston, IL 60208
+1-847-467-5780
Northwestern IT Web Site: 
<http://www.it.northwestern.edu/<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.it.northwestern.edu%2F=04%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7C03dd5f32dffb49bb631508d8cf66e372%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C637487388111357177%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=8aFOiLAfk%2Fx2X1w2QElUFv%2Fjm3hfLfmHOcOMQRVGSpo%3D=0>>
PGP Public Key: 
<https://bt.ittns.northwestern.edu/julian/pgppubkey.html<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbt.ittns.northwestern.edu%2Fjulian%2Fpgppubkey.html=04%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7C03dd5f32dffb49bb631508d8cf66e372%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C637487388111357177%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=9qOCHFs6N3UPAA6Y7R5InOIwdhFbM%2FGrvDvuLvjTIMI%3D=0>>



**
Replies to EDUC

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

[Lee H Badman]

The by-product? "The campus network sucks. I'm using my hotspot..." let the fun 
begin.

Lee Badman | Network Architect (CWNE#200)
Information Technology Services
(NDD Group)
206 Machinery Hall
120 Smith Drive
Syracuse, New York 13244
t 315.443.3003   e lhbad...@syr.edu<mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu> w its.syr.edu
Campus Wireless Policy: 
https://answers.syr.edu/display/network/Wireless+Network+and+Systems
SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
syr.edu

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Ian Lyons
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 9:54 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

We had a huge upswell of Mac users not being able to connect and the newest OS 
was at fault. Older macs further away...no issues. Mac's with new OS right 
under an AP... couldnt connect reliably, huge CPU spikes and or crappy wifi.

Ahh, I love Apple.

But yeah, in this instance, dont discount the OS.

Ian

Cheers
Ian J Lyons
Network Architect - Rollins College
401.413.1661 Cell
407.628.6396 Desk




From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of Julian Y Koh 
mailto:kohs...@northwestern.edu>>
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 9:35
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues


* External Email *




On Feb 12, 2021, at 07:56, Sidharth Nandury 
mailto:nandu...@denison.edu>> wrote:

We are an Aruba shop at Denison University and have received reports of issues 
on Zoom and Google Meet as well mostly on Mac OS. Looking into the Zoom 
dashboard statistics of some of these calls we are seeing the "Max Loss" 
percentage go up to 99% frequently and back down to 2-6 % on wireless when 
there are no issues. We can generally co-relate this to higher ping responses. 
I would also love to what other Universities are doing to look at this.

This thread reminded me of a recent on on the NANOG mailing list about Macs and 
wireless issues.  Go to 
https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2020-October/thread.html<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nanog.org%2Fpipermail%2Fnanog%2F2020-October%2Fthread.html=04%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7Cf019780a5975431bfa9c08d8cf637b26%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C637487373489679391%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=zfmw0j2IjAlXPIwjcMY4OulhXIlYrrB28I5nXtCVUHs%3D=0>
 and look at the thread titled "Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive 
Jitter".  I can't remember all of the details but the tl;dr summary that I 
remember involved some interaction between Bluetooth, possibly Location 
Services, and Wi-Fi.


--
Julian Y. Koh
Associate Director, Telecommunications and Network Services
Northwestern Information Technology

2020 Ridge Avenue #331
Evanston, IL 60208
+1-847-467-5780
Northwestern IT Web Site: 
<http://www.it.northwestern.edu/<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.it.northwestern.edu%2F=04%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7Cf019780a5975431bfa9c08d8cf637b26%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C637487373489689385%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=yrB0Lkzh1116V%2FATGKAkfqEMOU75yFaB7QuGvTY7FGw%3D=0>>
PGP Public Key: 
<https://bt.ittns.northwestern.edu/julian/pgppubkey.html<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbt.ittns.northwestern.edu%2Fjulian%2Fpgppubkey.html=04%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7Cf019780a5975431bfa9c08d8cf637b26%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C637487373489689385%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=X5AmGMqZXZQRIP6DO2rViBZ3mq6vZUBjRltwYbN%2BJtc%3D=0>>


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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

[Ian Lyons]

We had a huge upswell of Mac users not being able to connect and the newest OS 
was at fault. Older macs further away...no issues. Mac's with new OS right 
under an AP... couldnt connect reliably, huge CPU spikes and or crappy wifi.

Ahh, I love Apple.

But yeah, in this instance, dont discount the OS.

Ian

Cheers
Ian J Lyons
Network Architect - Rollins College
401.413.1661 Cell
407.628.6396 Desk




From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 on behalf of Julian Y Koh 

Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 9:35
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU 
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues


* External Email *



On Feb 12, 2021, at 07:56, Sidharth Nandury 
mailto:nandu...@denison.edu>> wrote:

We are an Aruba shop at Denison University and have received reports of issues 
on Zoom and Google Meet as well mostly on Mac OS. Looking into the Zoom 
dashboard statistics of some of these calls we are seeing the "Max Loss" 
percentage go up to 99% frequently and back down to 2-6 % on wireless when 
there are no issues. We can generally co-relate this to higher ping responses. 
I would also love to what other Universities are doing to look at this.

This thread reminded me of a recent on on the NANOG mailing list about Macs and 
wireless issues.  Go to 
https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2020-October/thread.html<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nanog.org%2Fpipermail%2Fnanog%2F2020-October%2Fthread.html=04%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7Cf019780a5975431bfa9c08d8cf637b26%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C637487373489679391%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=zfmw0j2IjAlXPIwjcMY4OulhXIlYrrB28I5nXtCVUHs%3D=0>
 and look at the thread titled "Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive 
Jitter”.  I can’t remember all of the details but the tl;dr summary that I 
remember involved some interaction between Bluetooth, possibly Location 
Services, and Wi-Fi.



--
Julian Y. Koh
Associate Director, Telecommunications and Network Services
Northwestern Information Technology

2020 Ridge Avenue #331
Evanston, IL 60208
+1-847-467-5780
Northwestern IT Web Site: 
<http://www.it.northwestern.edu/<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.it.northwestern.edu%2F=04%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7Cf019780a5975431bfa9c08d8cf637b26%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C637487373489689385%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=yrB0Lkzh1116V%2FATGKAkfqEMOU75yFaB7QuGvTY7FGw%3D=0>>
PGP Public Key: 
<https://bt.ittns.northwestern.edu/julian/pgppubkey.html<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbt.ittns.northwestern.edu%2Fjulian%2Fpgppubkey.html=04%7C01%7Cilyons%40ROLLINS.EDU%7Cf019780a5975431bfa9c08d8cf637b26%7Cb8e8d71a947d41dd81dd8401dcc51007%7C0%7C0%7C637487373489689385%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=X5AmGMqZXZQRIP6DO2rViBZ3mq6vZUBjRltwYbN%2BJtc%3D=0>>


**
Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire community 
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and subscription information can be found at 
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Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

[Julian Y Koh]

On Feb 12, 2021, at 07:56, Sidharth Nandury 
mailto:nandu...@denison.edu>> wrote:

We are an Aruba shop at Denison University and have received reports of issues 
on Zoom and Google Meet as well mostly on Mac OS. Looking into the Zoom 
dashboard statistics of some of these calls we are seeing the "Max Loss" 
percentage go up to 99% frequently and back down to 2-6 % on wireless when 
there are no issues. We can generally co-relate this to higher ping responses. 
I would also love to what other Universities are doing to look at this.

This thread reminded me of a recent on on the NANOG mailing list about Macs and 
wireless issues.  Go to 
https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2020-October/thread.html and look at 
the thread titled "Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter”.  I 
can’t remember all of the details but the tl;dr summary that I remember 
involved some interaction between Bluetooth, possibly Location Services, and 
Wi-Fi.



--
Julian Y. Koh
Associate Director, Telecommunications and Network Services
Northwestern Information Technology

2020 Ridge Avenue #331
Evanston, IL 60208
+1-847-467-5780
Northwestern IT Web Site: 
PGP Public Key: 


**
Replies to EDUCAUSE Community Group emails are sent to the entire community 
list. If you want to reply only to the person who sent the message, copy and 
paste their email address and forward the email reply. Additional participation 
and subscription information can be found at https://www.educause.edu/community

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

[Lee H Badman]

I am seeing in another channel talk about Zoom pushing Macbook CPU to almost 
100% especially when other apps are open, and the effect is worse per model and 
HW specs. I don’t know this to be true, but a couple of respectable folks 
saying so. If so, one takeaway would be to make sure Zoom client is up to date 
and only app running.

Lee Badman | Network Architect (CWNE#200)
Information Technology Services
(NDD Group)
206 Machinery Hall
120 Smith Drive
Syracuse, New York 13244
t 315.443.3003   e lhbad...@syr.edu<mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu> w its.syr.edu
Campus Wireless Policy: 
https://answers.syr.edu/display/network/Wireless+Network+and+Systems
SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
syr.edu

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Sidharth Nandury
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 8:57 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

We are an Aruba shop at Denison University and have received reports of issues 
on Zoom and Google Meet as well mostly on Mac OS. Looking into the Zoom 
dashboard statistics of some of these calls we are seeing the "Max Loss" 
percentage go up to 99% frequently and back down to 2-6 % on wireless when 
there are no issues. We can generally co-relate this to higher ping responses. 
I would also love to what other Universities are doing to look at this.

Thank you.

Sid

On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 8:30 AM Samuel Clements 
mailto:scleme...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Troubleshooting seemingly disjointed problems and crowdsourcing recommendations 
is always a tricky thing for us to navigate. Personally, I like to look at 
things like "absolutely everything is okay except for one single app" with a 
grain of salt unless I can back it up with empirical evidence (application 
inspection, external app health solutions, etc). Just because Zoom is filtering 
to the top, you very well could be having pervasive issues otherwise, but the 
vocal majority could simply be expressing Zoom since it can be taxing on a 
number of network components. Unless you want to delve off into actual 
troubleshooting scenarios (capturing debugs & packets), you're going to be left 
with "punch list" troubleshooting - and those come from vendor recommended best 
practices. In this case, I'd make sure that you follow the Apple/Cisco document 
that is meant to address both manufacturers recommendations:
https://www.cisco.com/c/dam/en/us/td/docs/wireless/controller/technotes/8-6/Enterprise_Best_Practices_for_iOS_devices_and_Mac_computers_on_Cisco_Wireless_LAN.pdf

I'd particularly pay attention to QoS since it's easy to get wrong - remember, 
unless you have trust on *every* link (yes, even those fancy 10G links in your 
core), you do not have QoS. It's a lengthy doc, but it's quite comprehensive - 
and most everything is in there for a reason. Let's be honest, having a nice 
reference guide is far better than vendors that don't qualify interoperability 
(cue Lee complaining about Wi-Fi Alliance) or provide design recommendations. 
In short, I'd recommend you start where your vendors suggest you start.
  -Sam

On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 6:36 AM Lee H Badman 
<00db5b77bd95-dmarc-requ...@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:00db5b77bd95-dmarc-requ...@listserv.educause.edu>>
 wrote:
That there are widespread problems with Zoom, and often just Zoom, is not hard 
to appreciate- one random sample:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Zoom/comments/g58olb/keep_getting_your_internet_connection_is_unstable/?utm_medium=android_app_source=share

The risk in tweaking controller settings for just Zoom's issues are that you 
can create more problems. Tread lightly here, and know that you are not alone.

At the same time, if anyone has discovered a silver bullet, I'd like to hear it 
as well. To me, it seems like the fix should be on the Zoom end, but am trying 
to keep an open mind.

Lee Badman | Network Architect | CWNE #200
Information Technology Services
206 Machinery Hall
120 Smith Drive
Syracuse, New York 13244
t 315.443.3003   f 315.443.4325   e lhbad...@syr.edu<mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu> w 
its.syr.edu<http://its.syr.edu>
SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
syr.edu<http://syr.edu>

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of Tariq Adnan 
<01e6b38f57b3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:01e6b38f57b3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.educause.edu>>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2021 9:19 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues


Hello everyone,



Just checking if you have recently come across any macbook zoom wireless 
dropout (and frozen screen) issues and have taken any step to resolve it.



So I have come across a Macbook

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

[Sidharth Nandury]

We are an Aruba shop at Denison University and have received reports of
issues on Zoom and Google Meet as well mostly on Mac OS. Looking into the
Zoom dashboard statistics of some of these calls we are seeing the "Max
Loss" percentage go up to 99% frequently and back down to 2-6 % on wireless
when there are no issues. We can generally co-relate this to higher ping
responses. I would also love to what other Universities are doing to look
at this.

Thank you.

Sid

On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 8:30 AM Samuel Clements  wrote:

> Troubleshooting seemingly disjointed problems and crowdsourcing
> recommendations is always a tricky thing for us to navigate. Personally, I
> like to look at things like "absolutely everything is okay except for one
> single app" with a grain of salt unless I can back it up with
> empirical evidence (application inspection, external app health solutions,
> etc). Just because Zoom is filtering to the top, you very well could be
> having pervasive issues otherwise, but the vocal majority could simply be
> expressing Zoom since it can be taxing on a number of network components.
> Unless you want to delve off into actual troubleshooting scenarios
> (capturing debugs & packets), you're going to be left with "punch list"
> troubleshooting - and those come from vendor recommended best practices. In
> this case, I'd make sure that you follow the Apple/Cisco document that is
> meant to address both manufacturers recommendations:
>
> https://www.cisco.com/c/dam/en/us/td/docs/wireless/controller/technotes/8-6/Enterprise_Best_Practices_for_iOS_devices_and_Mac_computers_on_Cisco_Wireless_LAN.pdf
>
> I'd particularly pay attention to QoS since it's easy to get wrong -
> remember, unless you have trust on *every* link (yes, even those fancy 10G
> links in your core), you do not have QoS. It's a lengthy doc, but it's
> quite comprehensive - and most everything is in there for a reason. Let's
> be honest, having a nice reference guide is far better than vendors that
> don't qualify interoperability (cue Lee complaining about Wi-Fi Alliance)
> or provide design recommendations. In short, I'd recommend you start where
> your vendors suggest you start.
>   -Sam
>
> On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 6:36 AM Lee H Badman <
> 00db5b77bd95-dmarc-requ...@listserv.educause.edu> wrote:
>
>> That there are widespread problems with Zoom, and often just Zoom, is not
>> hard to appreciate- one random sample:
>>
>>
>> https://www.reddit.com/r/Zoom/comments/g58olb/keep_getting_your_internet_connection_is_unstable/?utm_medium=android_app_source=share
>>
>> The risk in tweaking controller settings for just Zoom's issues are that
>> you can create more problems. Tread lightly here, and know that you are not
>> alone.
>>
>> At the same time, if anyone has discovered a silver bullet, I'd like to
>> hear it as well. To me, it seems like the fix should be on the Zoom end,
>> but am trying to keep an open mind.
>>
>> *Lee Badman* | Network Architect | CWNE #200
>> Information Technology Services
>> 206 Machinery Hall
>> 120 Smith Drive
>> Syracuse, New York 13244
>> *t* 315.443.3003  * f* 315.443.4325   *e* lhbad...@syr.edu *w*
>> its.syr.edu
>> *SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY*
>> syr.edu
>> --
>> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv <
>> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> on behalf of Tariq Adnan <
>> 01e6b38f57b3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.educause.edu>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 11, 2021 9:19 PM
>> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU <
>> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
>> *Subject:* [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues
>>
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>> Just checking if you have recently come across any macbook zoom wireless
>> dropout (and frozen screen) issues and have taken any step to resolve it.
>>
>>
>>
>> So I have come across a Macbook running Catalina 10.15.7 reporting zoom
>> dropouts from time to time.
>>
>>
>>
>> The AP is 3700 and the controller model is 8540 running code 8.5.161.6.
>> The session time out on the SSiD is set to 24 hours. The QOS is default
>> “silver”.
>>
>>
>>
>> I was running debug on WLC (debug client mac) and AP and there is no
>> helpful log generated at the time of issue. The utilization for both radios
>> on the AP is close to 1% (not busy) and the noise and interference reported
>> by AP is not unusual. The switchport have no errors etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have searched this forum and few people have reported that the mac’s
>> were having issues with specific 5G channels. Some suggested to change few
>> things on the mac (turn off unlock with apple watch) etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> *So if you have recently dealt with something similar, can you please
>> share your thoughts and if you have resolved the issue, how did you do that
>> (code upgrade etc.)? *
>>
>>
>>
>> *Few things I can try:*
>>
>> -Set Qos profile to platinum
>>
>> -Disable Aironet IE
>>
>> -Configure Idle timeout on the ssid (less than session timeout) :
>> currently it 

RE: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

[Lee H Badman]

The only problem I have there- with “where your vendor tells you to start”- is 
that the vendor loves to push “go to latest code”.

THEN…

Oops- now you got a new problem. Better downgrade.

Let’s try this escalation code. Whoopsie, new bug…

Let’s try THIS escalation code. Darn… different bugs. Yikes.

Let’s go back to where you were. Oh wait, same problem.

Let’s try THIS escalation code. What, you can’t live with this other bug?

And so on. Each gyration extremely disruptive, and one thing I don’t think 
Cisco (at least) TAC really grasps the gravity of during an academic semester.

Beyond that, I don’t disagree with Brother Samuel.

-Lee

Lee Badman | Network Architect (CWNE#200)
Information Technology Services
(NDD Group)
206 Machinery Hall
120 Smith Drive
Syracuse, New York 13244
t 315.443.3003   e lhbad...@syr.edu<mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu> w its.syr.edu
Campus Wireless Policy: 
https://answers.syr.edu/display/network/Wireless+Network+and+Systems
SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
syr.edu

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
 On Behalf Of Samuel Clements
Sent: Friday, February 12, 2021 8:30 AM
To: WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU
Subject: Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

Troubleshooting seemingly disjointed problems and crowdsourcing recommendations 
is always a tricky thing for us to navigate. Personally, I like to look at 
things like "absolutely everything is okay except for one single app" with a 
grain of salt unless I can back it up with empirical evidence (application 
inspection, external app health solutions, etc). Just because Zoom is filtering 
to the top, you very well could be having pervasive issues otherwise, but the 
vocal majority could simply be expressing Zoom since it can be taxing on a 
number of network components. Unless you want to delve off into actual 
troubleshooting scenarios (capturing debugs & packets), you're going to be left 
with "punch list" troubleshooting - and those come from vendor recommended best 
practices. In this case, I'd make sure that you follow the Apple/Cisco document 
that is meant to address both manufacturers recommendations:
https://www.cisco.com/c/dam/en/us/td/docs/wireless/controller/technotes/8-6/Enterprise_Best_Practices_for_iOS_devices_and_Mac_computers_on_Cisco_Wireless_LAN.pdf

I'd particularly pay attention to QoS since it's easy to get wrong - remember, 
unless you have trust on *every* link (yes, even those fancy 10G links in your 
core), you do not have QoS. It's a lengthy doc, but it's quite comprehensive - 
and most everything is in there for a reason. Let's be honest, having a nice 
reference guide is far better than vendors that don't qualify interoperability 
(cue Lee complaining about Wi-Fi Alliance) or provide design recommendations. 
In short, I'd recommend you start where your vendors suggest you start.
  -Sam

On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 6:36 AM Lee H Badman 
<00db5b77bd95-dmarc-requ...@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:00db5b77bd95-dmarc-requ...@listserv.educause.edu>>
 wrote:
That there are widespread problems with Zoom, and often just Zoom, is not hard 
to appreciate- one random sample:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Zoom/comments/g58olb/keep_getting_your_internet_connection_is_unstable/?utm_medium=android_app_source=share

The risk in tweaking controller settings for just Zoom's issues are that you 
can create more problems. Tread lightly here, and know that you are not alone.

At the same time, if anyone has discovered a silver bullet, I'd like to hear it 
as well. To me, it seems like the fix should be on the Zoom end, but am trying 
to keep an open mind.

Lee Badman | Network Architect | CWNE #200
Information Technology Services
206 Machinery Hall
120 Smith Drive
Syracuse, New York 13244
t 315.443.3003   f 315.443.4325   e lhbad...@syr.edu<mailto:lhbad...@syr.edu> w 
its.syr.edu<http://its.syr.edu>
SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
syr.edu<http://syr.edu>

From: The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>> 
on behalf of Tariq Adnan 
<01e6b38f57b3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.educause.edu<mailto:01e6b38f57b3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.educause.edu>>
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2021 9:19 PM
To: 
WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU<mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> 
mailto:WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>>
Subject: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues


Hello everyone,



Just checking if you have recently come across any macbook zoom wireless 
dropout (and frozen screen) issues and have taken any step to resolve it.



So I have come across a Macbook running Catalina 10.15.7 reporting zoom 
dropouts from time to time.



The AP is 3700 and the controller model is 8540 running code 8.5.161.6. The 
session time out on the SSiD is set to 24 hours. The QOS is default “silver”.



I was running debug on

Re: [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues

[Samuel Clements]

Troubleshooting seemingly disjointed problems and crowdsourcing
recommendations is always a tricky thing for us to navigate. Personally, I
like to look at things like "absolutely everything is okay except for one
single app" with a grain of salt unless I can back it up with
empirical evidence (application inspection, external app health solutions,
etc). Just because Zoom is filtering to the top, you very well could be
having pervasive issues otherwise, but the vocal majority could simply be
expressing Zoom since it can be taxing on a number of network components.
Unless you want to delve off into actual troubleshooting scenarios
(capturing debugs & packets), you're going to be left with "punch list"
troubleshooting - and those come from vendor recommended best practices. In
this case, I'd make sure that you follow the Apple/Cisco document that is
meant to address both manufacturers recommendations:
https://www.cisco.com/c/dam/en/us/td/docs/wireless/controller/technotes/8-6/Enterprise_Best_Practices_for_iOS_devices_and_Mac_computers_on_Cisco_Wireless_LAN.pdf

I'd particularly pay attention to QoS since it's easy to get wrong -
remember, unless you have trust on *every* link (yes, even those fancy 10G
links in your core), you do not have QoS. It's a lengthy doc, but it's
quite comprehensive - and most everything is in there for a reason. Let's
be honest, having a nice reference guide is far better than vendors that
don't qualify interoperability (cue Lee complaining about Wi-Fi Alliance)
or provide design recommendations. In short, I'd recommend you start where
your vendors suggest you start.
  -Sam

On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 6:36 AM Lee H Badman <
00db5b77bd95-dmarc-requ...@listserv.educause.edu> wrote:

> That there are widespread problems with Zoom, and often just Zoom, is not
> hard to appreciate- one random sample:
>
>
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Zoom/comments/g58olb/keep_getting_your_internet_connection_is_unstable/?utm_medium=android_app_source=share
>
> The risk in tweaking controller settings for just Zoom's issues are that
> you can create more problems. Tread lightly here, and know that you are not
> alone.
>
> At the same time, if anyone has discovered a silver bullet, I'd like to
> hear it as well. To me, it seems like the fix should be on the Zoom end,
> but am trying to keep an open mind.
>
> *Lee Badman* | Network Architect | CWNE #200
> Information Technology Services
> 206 Machinery Hall
> 120 Smith Drive
> Syracuse, New York 13244
> *t* 315.443.3003  * f* 315.443.4325   *e* lhbad...@syr.edu *w* its.syr.edu
> *SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY*
> syr.edu
> --
> *From:* The EDUCAUSE Wireless Issues Community Group Listserv <
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU> on behalf of Tariq Adnan <
> 01e6b38f57b3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.educause.edu>
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 11, 2021 9:19 PM
> *To:* WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU <
> WIRELESS-LAN@LISTSERV.EDUCAUSE.EDU>
> *Subject:* [WIRELESS-LAN] Macbook zoom wireless dropout issues
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
>
>
> Just checking if you have recently come across any macbook zoom wireless
> dropout (and frozen screen) issues and have taken any step to resolve it.
>
>
>
> So I have come across a Macbook running Catalina 10.15.7 reporting zoom
> dropouts from time to time.
>
>
>
> The AP is 3700 and the controller model is 8540 running code 8.5.161.6.
> The session time out on the SSiD is set to 24 hours. The QOS is default
> “silver”.
>
>
>
> I was running debug on WLC (debug client mac) and AP and there is no
> helpful log generated at the time of issue. The utilization for both radios
> on the AP is close to 1% (not busy) and the noise and interference reported
> by AP is not unusual. The switchport have no errors etc.
>
>
>
> I have searched this forum and few people have reported that the mac’s
> were having issues with specific 5G channels. Some suggested to change few
> things on the mac (turn off unlock with apple watch) etc.
>
>
>
> *So if you have recently dealt with something similar, can you please
> share your thoughts and if you have resolved the issue, how did you do that
> (code upgrade etc.)? *
>
>
>
> *Few things I can try:*
>
> -Set Qos profile to platinum
>
> -Disable Aironet IE
>
> -Configure Idle timeout on the ssid (less than session timeout) :
> currently it is default 5 minutes
>
> -Disable 11ac MU-MIMO on ssid
>
> -upgrade macos to Big Sur
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tariq
>
>
>
>
>
> **
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>
> **
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