RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us
Or, as it might be technically easier, providing an audio (MP3/OGG) file of the seminars and the presentation slides would be great. Anyone else in the UK want to have our own meeting and show the Ozzies how it's really done? ;0) Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 09 June 2005 05:30 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us Hey don't forget us folks up in Darwin, we may be in Australia but we are still miles away! A webcast or streaming video would be great. Cheers *** Helen Rysavy Web Designer Teaching Learning Development Group Charles Darwin University, Northern Territory 0909 Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] CRICOS Provider No: 00300K *** Adam Burmister (DSL AK) To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org [EMAIL PROTECTED]cc: acom.co.nzSubject: RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] sgroup.org 09/06/2005 12:54 PM Please respond to wsg Somebody should webcast the live event. I'd love to attend in person, but I'm stuck in Auckland :( (Damn cold too)! Adam -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kazuhito Kidachi Sent: Thursday, 9 June 2005 3:17 p.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us 2005/6/9, Cole Kuryakin - x7m [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Man, oh man, would I love to attend some (pretty much all) of the meetings, seminars and discussions being hosted/held by WSG - but they seem to all be in Sydney. Me too. I'm in Japan and I can understand what you feel. So, if some resources like slides or short minutes are available for each meeting, all of the rest of us would be happy, I believe. BTW, now some people living in Tokyo are thinking about planning local meeting as a part of WSG. So my question is, how to setup such a local meeting. Is it only inputting time/place info on the WSG site? Australia, Philippines and Japan are located in almost same time zone. In future, we may share the same experience at the same time. It's just my thought. Kazuhito -- Kazuhito Kidachi mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us
Anyone else in the UK want to have our own meeting and show the Ozzies how it's really done? how about northern ireland? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] problem with utf-8 page encoding
Vaska.WSG skrev: The Chinese websites I have looked up have latin1 style urls...no sign of Chinese text anywhere in there. Look at: http://zh.wikipedia.org/ Works in FF1 IE6 and the URLs look really nice in Opera8 (and sometimes in IE too). I have no other browsers here right now. Seems like http://www.mediawiki.org/ (used by Wikipedia) supports this kind of URLs. I work with a homegrown Php-based CMS, and I now have decided to go with non-latin1 URLs; I'm at implementing this right now. /Anders ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us
I live in eastern US. Much as I would love to visit Austrailia, it is out of the question for now at least. I think some sort of video of your events would be great! Nancyakella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what about ukraine?there are four of usbut only two of us know each other... On 6/9/05, Kvnmcwebn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: " Anyone else in the UK want to have our own meeting and show the Ozzies how it's really done? "how about northern ireland?**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help **-- glhf,akella. Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more.
Re: [WSG] A software question
I don't think there's a really good answer to this question. It really boils down to using what ever your comfortable with and will let you get the job done. Personally, I use plain text editors with syntax highlighting and I hate Dreamweaver (i've used 2002), but others feel differently and prefer drag-and-drop stuff. If you like Dreamweaver, but you can't afford the money, you can always try Nvu (http://www.nvu.com/), apparently it has fairly good standards support. Kvnmcwebn wrote: cant go wrong with dreamweaver mx 2004. great style sheet integration. pc version ships with top style lite and home site i think. costs around 500 hundred quid. -kvnmcwebn ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us
Then there's this one Deaf WSG member who's gonna ask for some kind of captioning/subtitling of the video/audio... Leslie Riggs I live in eastern US. Much as I would love to visit Austrailia, it is out of the question for now at least. I think some sort of video of your events would be great! Nancy */akella [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: what about ukraine? there are four of us but only two of us know each other... On 6/9/05, *Kvnmcwebn* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone else in the UK want to have our own meeting and show the Ozzies how it's really done? how about northern ireland? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us
Seconding Kazuhito's ideas. We were talking on another list (Web Standards Tokyo)about howmuch we miss WSG meetings. Common folks it's 2005 we could do something with our video cameras and internet connections. Any positive feedback from Australia ??? --- Kazuhito Kidachi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2005/6/9, Cole Kuryakin - x7m [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Man, oh man, would I love to attend some (pretty much all) of the meetings, seminars and discussions being hosted/held by WSG - but they seem to all be in Sydney. Me too. I'm in Japan and I can understand what you feel. So, if some resources like slides or short minutes are available for each meeting, all of the rest of us would be happy, I believe. BTW, now some people living in Tokyo are thinking about planning local meeting as a part of WSG. So my question is, how to setup such a local meeting. Is it only inputting time/place info on the WSG site? Australia, Philippines and Japan are located in almost same time zone. In future, we may share the same experience at the same time. It's just my thought. Kazuhito -- Kazuhito Kidachi mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** __ Discover Yahoo! Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us
Yes, this would be great. I live in Canada, and being a student and all, I don't have the time, nor the money to visit Australia. If some one could release audio tapes or something, it'd be much appreciated. :) Alan Trick Cole Kuryakin - x7m wrote: Man, oh man, would I love to attend some (pretty much all) of the meetings, seminars and discussions being hosted/held by WSG - but they seem to all be in Sydney. I live in the backwaters of the Philippines and am too broke to travel to these meetings and I really feel like I'm missing out on a lot of good stuff - not to mention networking and getting to know other professionals in my field. Aside from the networking/getting to know issue, is there anyway that the rest of us can read abstracts or important details from these meetings - like maybe on the WSG site? Once again, if I had the cash and ability to travel, I'd be one of the first people in line to pay the price of admission. Since this isn't the case for me - and I'm sure many other WSG members, is there any way or plan to share this wealth of information and expertise with the rest of us? Cole ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] absolute positioning, objects inputs
The select issue is an IE bug. As far as I know, there's no workaround. With the flash, I believe you have to set a property on your embed tag (wMode='opaque', but don't quote me on that). I'm not very familiar with Flash. Alan Trick Jamie Mason wrote: http://www.engineerrecords.com/abspos.htm This page is a quick example, it's got form inputs and a flash file with nothing done to them, then OVER THE TOP of that, is a blue absolutely positioned div. In IE - The select appears above the div In Mozilla - The flash appears above the div Does anyone know a decent way around this? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us
Hey Chris, Keen as to hook something up. I went to about 4 or 5 Sydney Meetings befor I moved to London. Surely theres a big enough standards community that a monthly gig could get organised. Don't know how you go about organising such events. List Dads, is this something that could work? Cheers Pete On 6/9/05, Chris Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or, as it might be technically easier, providing an audio (MP3/OGG) file of the seminars and the presentation slides would be great. Anyone else in the UK want to have our own meeting and show the Ozzies how it's really done? ;0) Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 09 June 2005 05:30 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us Hey don't forget us folks up in Darwin, we may be in Australia but we are still miles away! A webcast or streaming video would be great. Cheers *** Helen Rysavy Web Designer Teaching Learning Development Group Charles Darwin University, Northern Territory 0909 Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] CRICOS Provider No: 00300K *** Adam Burmister (DSL AK) To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org [EMAIL PROTECTED]cc: acom.co.nzSubject: RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] sgroup.org 09/06/2005 12:54 PM Please respond to wsg Somebody should webcast the live event. I'd love to attend in person, but I'm stuck in Auckland :( (Damn cold too)! Adam -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kazuhito Kidachi Sent: Thursday, 9 June 2005 3:17 p.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us 2005/6/9, Cole Kuryakin - x7m [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Man, oh man, would I love to attend some (pretty much all) of the meetings, seminars and discussions being hosted/held by WSG - but they seem to all be in Sydney. Me too. I'm in Japan and I can understand what you feel. So, if some resources like slides or short minutes are available for each meeting, all of the rest of us would be happy, I believe. BTW, now some people living in Tokyo are thinking about planning local meeting as a part of WSG. So my question is, how to setup such a local meeting. Is it only inputting time/place info on the WSG site? Australia, Philippines and Japan are located in almost same time zone. In future, we may share the same experience at the same time. It's just my thought. Kazuhito -- Kazuhito Kidachi mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- -- Peter Costello www.domestik.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us
Hi Peter/Chris Definately up for attending any UK specifically London events Cheers Ben -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Costello Sent: 09 June 2005 17:35 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us Hey Chris, Keen as to hook something up. I went to about 4 or 5 Sydney Meetings befor I moved to London. Surely theres a big enough standards community that a monthly gig could get organised. Don't know how you go about organising such events. List Dads, is this something that could work? Cheers Pete On 6/9/05, Chris Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or, as it might be technically easier, providing an audio (MP3/OGG) file of the seminars and the presentation slides would be great. Anyone else in the UK want to have our own meeting and show the Ozzies how it's really done? ;0) Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 09 June 2005 05:30 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us Hey don't forget us folks up in Darwin, we may be in Australia but we are still miles away! A webcast or streaming video would be great. Cheers *** Helen Rysavy Web Designer Teaching Learning Development Group Charles Darwin University, Northern Territory 0909 Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] CRICOS Provider No: 00300K *** Adam Burmister (DSL AK) To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org [EMAIL PROTECTED]cc: acom.co.nzSubject: RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] sgroup.org 09/06/2005 12:54 PM Please respond to wsg Somebody should webcast the live event. I'd love to attend in person, but I'm stuck in Auckland :( (Damn cold too)! Adam -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kazuhito Kidachi Sent: Thursday, 9 June 2005 3:17 p.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us 2005/6/9, Cole Kuryakin - x7m [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Man, oh man, would I love to attend some (pretty much all) of the meetings, seminars and discussions being hosted/held by WSG - but they seem to all be in Sydney. Me too. I'm in Japan and I can understand what you feel. So, if some resources like slides or short minutes are available for each meeting, all of the rest of us would be happy, I believe. BTW, now some people living in Tokyo are thinking about planning local meeting as a part of WSG. So my question is, how to setup such a local meeting. Is it only inputting time/place info on the WSG site? Australia, Philippines and Japan are located in almost same time zone. In future, we may share the same experience at the same time. It's just my thought. Kazuhito -- Kazuhito Kidachi mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- -- Peter Costello www.domestik.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the
Re: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us
Then there's this one Deaf WSG member who's gonna ask for some kind of captioning/subtitling of the video/audio... One free audio download per subscriber. To get your next free download, you must submit at least 250 words of transcribed text. After you've transcribed 1000 words, you can review others' transcriptions instead. Press the lever, get your pellet. Someone more brilliant than me figures out how to merge 100 submissions into one transcription, incorporating the reviewers' ratings of each transcriber. This person founds a business and makes a mint. Or opens the source and becomes an accessibility guru and makes a mint. Or keeps mum, tells everyone he's doing it by hand, charges by the hour (38 of them yesterday alone), and makes a mint. The world rejoices. Qantas stock plummets as we all stay home in pyjamas instead. -- Ben Curtis : webwright bivia : automatic business plans for saving the world and making a mint, while you wait http://www.bivia.com v: (818) 507-6613 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Accessible form test
Hi all, I'm sorry for sending this againg but the link for the new form was wrong, that's what happens when you've been staring at a screen for too long... I¹m pretty new to marking up forms so I decided to ³get it right² right from the start. I¹ve recoded a contact form they are using on a website I¹m working on. The old form (the one currently in use) is here: http://www.pixelsandtext.be/tests/oldform.html The new form is here: http://www.pixelsandtext.be/tests/newform.html Both forms validate to their respective DTD. The old one is marked-up using tables, the new one uses a definition list and a few CSS-rules for the layout. I've read Joe Clarks book building accessible websites and applied most of the stuff in the Forms chapter. (Funny thing, even when adding all the CSS rules and the accessiblity extra's to the HTML the file size is roughly the same as the old form) Would some of the WSG accessibility gurus please have a look at this form? I'd welcome any comment and/or suggestions... Thanks in advance, Erwin Heiser ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us
I would love to be back in OZ and attend a SYD or MEL meeting but there is this pond in the way. :) Dennis Lapcewich USDA Forest Service Webmaster Pacific Northwest Region - Vancouver, WA 360-891-5024 - Voice | 360-891-5045 - Fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it. -- Anonymous [EMAIL PROTECTED] edu.au Sent by: To [EMAIL PROTECTED] wsg@webstandardsgroup.org rdsgroup.org cc Subject 06/08/2005 09:29 RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the PMrest of us Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] roup.org Hey don't forget us folks up in Darwin, we may be in Australia but we are still miles away! A webcast or streaming video would be great. Cheers *** Helen Rysavy Web Designer Teaching Learning Development Group Charles Darwin University, Northern Territory 0909 Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] CRICOS Provider No: 00300K *** Adam Burmister (DSL AK) To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org [EMAIL PROTECTED]cc: acom.co.nzSubject: RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] sgroup.org 09/06/2005 12:54 PM Please respond to wsg Somebody should webcast the live event. I'd love to attend in person, but I'm stuck in Auckland :( (Damn cold too)! Adam -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kazuhito Kidachi Sent: Thursday, 9 June 2005 3:17 p.m. To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us 2005/6/9, Cole Kuryakin - x7m [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Man, oh man, would I love to attend some (pretty much all) of the meetings, seminars and discussions being hosted/held by WSG - but they seem to all be in Sydney. Me too. I'm in Japan and I can understand what you feel. So, if some resources like slides or short minutes are available for each meeting, all of the rest of us would be happy, I believe. BTW, now some people living in Tokyo are thinking about planning local meeting as a part of WSG. So my question is, how to setup such a local meeting. Is it only inputting time/place info on the WSG site? Australia, Philippines and Japan are located in almost same time zone. In future, we may share the same experience at the same time. It's just my thought. Kazuhito -- Kazuhito Kidachi mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See
RE: [WSG] WSG Meetings for the rest of us
I live near Leeds and am a newbie with web standards. I'd like to attend anyway if there is a meeting up north. Lisa Lisa B. McLaughlin, NCW [EMAIL PROTECTED] AllSpunUp Web Designs for Small Businesses with Big Visions ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Attention Auckland
Your local WSG Core members have finally pulled it together and organised an informal WSG meet. The plan is to meet at the Belgium Beer Garden in Takapuna for a 'meet n greet', casual geekfest. Let's have a bit of a natter. Let's exchange war stories. Let's drink and celebrate the fact that web standards are here to stay. Let's plan future events. What do you say? Let either Peter ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) or me ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) know if you're interested so we can get a rough idea of numbers. Auckland geeks: Let's show Wellington how it's done! ;) The details: Where - Belgium Beer Garden, Hurstmere Road, Takapuna When - Wednesday 22nd June from 7pm. Cheers Darren (and Peter) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Accessible form test
Hi Erwin, there'd be other people on the list that could comment on the use of access keys etc i'm sure. At a stretch I'd kinda consider some aspects of the visual presentation part of the broad spectrum that is accessibility though - or at least usability. i like thisarticle that looks at the pros/cons of form layout, label positioning alignment: http://www.lukew.com/resources/articles/web_forms.html applying some of those presentation ideas would enhance the ability to quickly grasp the different parts to the form (i'm getting some mis-alignment with some of the form labels in the enquiry details part of teh form). browser cam results here: http://www.browsercam.com/public.aspx?proj_id=168943 I havent read Joe's book. does he specifically recommened the use of definition lists for layout? sounds like a decent enough idea. theres potential to go without the dl though, and use the form tag itself and the label tags as the hooks to define styles alignment. theres a bunch of examples for form layout which youve probably already seen, i often go back to Cameron Adams' article and examples: http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2004/03/24/ but yeah - as mentioned,you're probably afterspecific feedback on the use of accesskeys etc - hopefully some of the gurus will chime in :) cheers, pete ottery On 6/10/05, Erwin Heiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all,I'm sorry for sending this againg but the link for the new form was wrong,that's what happens when you've been staring at a screen for too long... I¹m pretty new to marking up forms so I decided to ³get it right² right fromthe start.I¹ve recoded a contact form they are using on a website I¹m working on.The old form (the one currently in use) is here: http://www.pixelsandtext.be/tests/oldform.htmlThe new form is here:http://www.pixelsandtext.be/tests/newform.html Both forms validate to their respective DTD.The old one is marked-up using tables, the new one uses a definition listand a few CSS-rules for the layout. I've read Joe Clarks book building accessible websites and applied most of the stuff in the Forms chapter.(Funny thing, even when adding all the CSS rules and the accessiblityextra's to the HTML the file size is roughly the same as the old form) Would some of the WSG accessibility gurus please have a look at this form?I'd welcome any comment and/or suggestions...Thanks in advance,Erwin Heiser** The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help**
Re: [WSG] A software question
kvnmcwebn Thank you for your vote of DreamWeaver. Angus MacKinnon MacKinnon Crest Saying Latin - Audentes Fortuna Juvat English - Fortune Assists The Daring Web page: http://members.shaw.ca/dabneyadfm Choroideremia Research Foundation Inc. 2nd Vice president Choroideremia Research Foundation Canada Inc. 1st Vice President http://www.choroideremia.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Accessible form test
-Original Message- From: Erwin Heiser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 10 June 2005 3:27 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Accessible form test Hi all, The new form is here: http://www.pixelsandtext.be/tests/newform.html I've read Joe Clarks book building accessible websites and applied most of the stuff in the Forms chapter. Hmm... Did you get the idea of using the definition lists from that book? I wonder why that was suggested? I mean, the labels and their FOR element already create a link to the form elements. And the fieldsets define a group of elements. Using Definition Lists is a bit of doubling up, in my opinion. And if you got rid of them the size of yoour HTML would reduce by quite a bit. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Accessible form test
The only purpose definition lists in forms serve is to provide some visual formatting in cases where CSS is turned off. There was some discussion on the technique at simplebits around a year or so ago, and it is basically just substituting one set of tags for another (dl, dt, dl in lieu of using p, br /, and div. It's a technique I'm not in favor of because definition lists have their own use, and specific semantic meaning. Personally, I think you should stick to using fieldsetlegends and labels -- tags specifically for use in forms. If you really want your form to hang together when there are no style sheets then use br's at the end of each line and hide them with css. The jury's out on accesskeys. The major barriers to them are: 1) There is no standard implementation across different sites 2) They are a hidden attribute of a handful of tags and it's difficult to inform your users about them 3) They may conflict with users own browser and/or assistive technology keyboard shortcuts 4) Most assistive technologies have their own form handling shortcuts. The other side of the coin - 1) when used judiciously they provide handy shortcuts to fequently used part of your web site 2) Not everybody who rely on keyboard navigation use assistive technology. If you do use accesskeys use a published guideline (e.g. in New Zealand use e-govt web guidelines) regards Terrence Wood. On 10 Jun 2005, at 11:52 AM, Peter Ottery wrote: Hi Erwin, there'd be other people on the list that could comment on the use of access keys etc i'm sure. At a stretch I'd kinda consider some aspects of the visual presentation part of the broad spectrum that is accessibility though - or at least usability. i like this article that looks at the pros/cons of form layout, label positioning alignment: http://www.lukew.com/resources/articles/web_forms.html applying some of those presentation ideas would enhance the ability to quickly grasp the different parts to the form (i'm getting some mis-alignment with some of the form labels in the enquiry details part of teh form). browser cam results here: http://www.browsercam.com/public.aspx?proj_id=168943 I havent read Joe's book. does he specifically recommened the use of definition lists for layout? sounds like a decent enough idea. theres potential to go without the dl though, and use the form tag itself and the label tags as the hooks to define styles alignment. theres a bunch of examples for form layout which youve probably already seen, i often go back to Cameron Adams' article and examples: http://www.themaninblue.com/writing/perspective/2004/03/24/ but yeah - as mentioned, you're probably after specific feedback on the use of accesskeys etc - hopefully some of the gurus will chime in :) cheers, pete ottery On 6/10/05, Erwin Heiser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I'm sorry for sending this againg but the link for the new form was wrong, that's what happens when you've been staring at a screen for too long... I¹m pretty new to marking up forms so I decided to ³get it right² right from the start. I¹ve recoded a contact form they are using on a website I¹m working on. The old form (the one currently in use) is here: http://www.pixelsandtext.be/tests/oldform.html The new form is here: http://www.pixelsandtext.be/tests/newform.html Both forms validate to their respective DTD. The old one is marked-up using tables, the new one uses a definition list and a few CSS-rules for the layout. I've read Joe Clarks book building accessible websites and applied most of the stuff in the Forms chapter. (Funny thing, even when adding all the CSS rules and the accessiblity extra's to the HTML the file size is roughly the same as the old form) Would some of the WSG accessibility gurus please have a look at this form? I'd welcome any comment and/or suggestions... Thanks in advance, Erwin Heiser ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Accessible form test
Hi Erwin 1. i would ditch the accesskeys: see these articles for why: http://wats.ca/articles/accesskeys/19 http://wats.ca/articles/accesskeyconflicts/37 2. use javascript to clear the comments textarea on focus (if it contains the default text). 3. mark up abbreviations and acronyms abbr title=numberNr/abbr FYI here is an example read out of the form using IBM homepage reader note: using spans to style characters within words causes the word to be read out incorrectly example departure becomes de- e -parture or the read out for 'nr. persons' is (note repetition of s ) 'Nr. of person Press Alt + Shift + ss'(i think this is a bug in homepage reader) Name Press Alt + Shift + m [Text.] Surname Press Alt + Shift + s [Text.] E-mai Press Alt + Shift + ll [Text.] Comments Press Alt + Shift + o [TextArea.] Enquiry Details Arrival Date Press Alt + Shift + d (Start of select menu with 32 items.) [Collapsed.] Choose day [Selected.] (End of select menu.) (Start of select menu with 13 items.) [Collapsed.] Choose month [Selected.] (End of select menu.) (Start of select menu with 4 items.) [Collapsed.] choose year [Selected.] (End of select menu.) Departure Date Press Alt + Shift + p (Start of select menu with 32 items.) [Collapsed.] Choose day [Selected.] (End of select menu.) (Start of select menu with 13 items.) [Collapsed.] Choose month [Selected.] (End of select menu.) (Start of select menu with 4 items.) [Collapsed.] choose year [Selected.] (End of select menu.) Nights Press Alt + Shift + i [Text.] Room Press Alt + Shift + r (Start of select menu with 8 items.) [Collapsed.] Choose one [Selected.] (End of select menu.) Nr. of person Press Alt + Shift + ss [Text.] How did you hear about Read's? Press Alt + Shift + y [Text.] Additional enquiries or comments Press Alt + Shift + q [TextArea: If interested in any particular package...] [Send: Submit button.] [Clear: Reset button.] (End of form 2.) with regards Steven Faulkner Web Accessibility Consultant National Information Library Service (NILS) 454 Glenferrie Road Kooyong Victoria 3144 Phone: (613) 9864 9281 Fax: (613) 9864 9210 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] National Information Library Service A subsidiary of RBS.RVIB.VAF Ltd. |-+- | | Erwin Heiser | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | Sent by: | | | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | | dsgroup.org | | | | | | | | | 10/06/2005 03:27 | | | AM| | | Please respond to | | | wsg | | | | |-+- ---| | | | To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org | | cc: | | Subject: [WSG] Accessible form test | ---| Hi all, I'm sorry for sending this againg but the link for the new form was wrong, that's what happens when you've been staring at a screen for too long... I¹m pretty new to marking up forms so I decided to ³get it right² right from the start. I¹ve recoded a contact form they are using on a website I¹m working on. The old form (the one currently in use) is here: http://www.pixelsandtext.be/tests/oldform.html The new form is here: http://www.pixelsandtext.be/tests/newform.html Both forms validate to their respective DTD. The old one is marked-up using tables, the new one uses a definition list and a few CSS-rules for the layout. I've read Joe Clarks book building accessible websites and applied most of the stuff in the Forms chapter. (Funny thing, even when adding all the CSS rules and the accessiblity extra's to the HTML the file size is roughly the same as the old form) Would some of the WSG accessibility gurus please have a look at this form? I'd welcome any comment and/or suggestions... Thanks in advance, Erwin Heiser ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
