Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time
You should also perhaps markup your logo H1 content as a change from the declared natural language of the page (English). Thanks for you tips Stuart: 1. How do I do that? 2.I'm curious as to why you think it is necessary - it is the name of the association - I doubt if Danone or Armani marks their names up as French or Italian on their English sites. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time
Thanks Lyn, During the planning for the site re-do we relied pretty heavily on a year's worth of visitor stats in making decisions. One of the things our stats showed us was the very low percentage of 800 x 600 and below visitors we had, plus people were complaining that the site was looking too small, so we bumped it up. There was some discussion about keeping a lower res version, but the client ruled it out. Bob - I was wondering about the width of the #wrappers- 980px/960px which causes horizontal scrolling if viewed on a smaller screen resolution such as 800 x 600. I have always tried to avoid horizontal scolling sometimes with great difficulty - does it not matter so much now that many people are using higher screen resolutions? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time
During the planning for the site re-do we relied pretty heavily on a year's worth of visitor stats in making decisions. One of the things our stats showed us was the very low percentage of 800 x 600 and below visitors we had, plus people were complaining that the site was looking too small, so we bumped it up. There was some discussion about keeping a lower res version, but the client ruled it out. Thanks Bob - that's very interesting. Love the main page image! Lyn Western Web Design www.westernwebdesign.com.au *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] stopping the email
Greetings I signed up to this service a while back and I want to be removed but I don't know the password I signed up for the account with. If you could cancel the account for me that would be ace! Cheers in advance Chris Cheetham _ MSN Hotmail is evolving - check out the new Windows Live Mail http://ideas.live.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] stopping the email - ADMIN
If you could cancel the account for me that would be ace! ADMIN If you want to unsubscribe or you want help with the mail list, please email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DON'T email the list with these sort of topics as they go out to 4500 people who don't really care about your issues. We, on the other had, do :) And just so we are all clear, the help email address is on the bottom of EVERY post that goes out to the list. Have a happy day/night/non-denominational time period Russ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time
Thanks Kenny, I would appreciate it if you guys could check it out for any errors or wrong practices Most/every page has two h1's, and there should only be one per page. Ideally, you should keep the h1 for the page title, but not for the site title. I've fixed these (not yet uploaded to test server). Your cites should probably not be in their own paragraphs if the cite can be styled directly. I've fixed these, too (not yet uploaded to test server) though I can't seem to get the exact styling (align-right) I want to work using css - the font-size does work, though. They look OK aligned left. Other than that, looks great. Thank you. Some may also say that having a splash screen page (a page with no other navigation other than enter) is a bad practice, but I think that's more a matter of personal preference. I like it, the client likes it :-} Olly Hodgson pointed out (here) that I should put links to the major sections of the site on it though, some I am studying a way to do that Best, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time
Nick, As no screenreaders read title attributes by default (and no screenreader user ever changes the default setting, apparently) you aren't really deriving any benefit (at least in accessibility terms) from the title attributes, so they might as well go. They were originally put there when I took over the site several years ago as a means of letting people know what was where in the completely re-done site navigation. I suppose they have out lived their usefulness, so will go. Thanks for the tip. Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time
Stuart, Your menu has links with the same anchor text but different destinations - introduction, current and members. When you can see the menu structure the context is obvious but when using a screen reader this can This is a real head-scratcher. I'm having trouble finding other words that fit the space. but keep the meaning. I'll work on it. Thanks, Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time
Rob, The navigation is dependent on javascript for the flyouts which not only do the flyouts cease to work when js is turned off they also become dead links leaving only a partial working menu. What browser - OS are you using? In everything I've checked it in, the links are not dead with javascript turned off. They do cease to work as flyouts, but instead line up nicely one under the other. Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] ODF Accessibility Checking and Repair Tool
Computer Science students at the University of Illinois are working on an web based Open Document Format (ODF) accessibility checking and repair tool for improving the accessibility of ODF documents to people with disabilities. They have just added some repair features and would love your feedback on the features and usability of the tool. http://odf.cita.uiuc.edu Jon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time - IE weirdness
In the test site I put up the other day for scrutiny http:/// www.fotografics.it/fife/ I have discovered a funny one with IE 6 If you go to organization ---commissions--- any commission except show you should see an image beside the list of names. The image is attached as a background to the div holding the names (try with FF) on IE 6 they are not showing up. Is there some hack I should know about, but don't? Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] centring and viewport size (OT?)
David Hucklesby wrote: Use JavaScript to change the element's top-margin style directly, perhaps? Cordially, David -- How exactly would you do that? (I'm interested, and I'm learning :-) ) -- Bob www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Using headers symantically
Hi all, Last evening I was playing around with some conceptual work which included a vast number of headers, and it got me thinking into how best to use them, and indeed how the spec says to use them. The W3C spec states, that the range of headers goes from h1 through to h6, and that headers should be tagged relevant to their importance. If this is the case, should headers be nested? In that an h3 should always come after an h2, and an h4 should always proceed an h3. Or should we markup content relevant simply to how important we feel a certain heading is? For example, would it be good practice to use the following: h2Title/h2 psome text/p h4Sub-Title of Title/h4 pmore text/p or should I have used a h3 instead of an h4 because it is the logical next heading in order? Again, in a large amount of markup, should I always use headers in a ascending order or simply place the relevant header element based on it's importance (as stated in the W3C specs)? h2Title/h2 psome text/p h4Title/h4 --- not related, or a sub-head of h1, simply a less important heading pmore text/p In this example, should I have used another h2? is it wise to simply jump to an h4? Incidentally, how do we weight the importance of headings? If a page had several h2 elements, no h3 elements, but a dozen h4 elements, would this indicate that the h4 elements simply weren't important enough to be given h3 tags? Sorry if I haven't explained myself very well, and this may seem a bit over-the-top way of thinking about how heading should be marked up, but some clarity in the matter would help my work. Regards Lee Powell *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time - IE weirdness
meta name=author content=Penny Bydlinski Bob Schwartz / The '' should be escaped as amp; You can see that you've only got one 'warning' and that's it! http:// tinyurl.com/2m4pey Em 2007/03/20, às 18:46, Bob Schwartz escreveu: In the test site I put up the other day for scrutiny http:/// www.fotografics.it/fife/ I have discovered a funny one with IE 6 If you go to organization ---commissions--- any commission except show you should see an image beside the list of names. The image is attached as a background to the div holding the names (try with FF) on IE 6 they are not showing up. Is there some hack I should know about, but don't? Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Atentamente, Jorge Laranjo email [EMAIL PROTECTED] gTalk [EMAIL PROTECTED] msn [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype jorge.laranjo http://www.olhares.com/fueg0/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/fueg0/ http://concursosdefotografia.blogspot.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time - IE weirdness
An try to use http://www.sidar.org/hera/ (you can choose you're language) to check your site And you're site has 1 error for the Priority 3: Keyboard shortcuts: No keyboard shortcuts provided. Em 2007/03/20, às 18:46, Bob Schwartz escreveu: In the test site I put up the other day for scrutiny http:/// www.fotografics.it/fife/ I have discovered a funny one with IE 6 If you go to organization ---commissions--- any commission except show you should see an image beside the list of names. The image is attached as a background to the div holding the names (try with FF) on IE 6 they are not showing up. Is there some hack I should know about, but don't? Bob *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Atentamente, Jorge Laranjo email [EMAIL PROTECTED] gTalk [EMAIL PROTECTED] msn [EMAIL PROTECTED] aim [EMAIL PROTECTED] skype jorge.laranjo http://www.olhares.com/fueg0/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/fueg0/ http://concursosdefotografia.blogspot.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Using headers symantically
Lee Powell wrote: Hi all, Last evening I was playing around with some conceptual work which included a vast number of headers, and it got me thinking into how best to use them, and indeed how the spec says to use them. The W3C spec states, that the range of headers goes from h1 through to h6, and that headers should be tagged relevant to their importance. If this is the case, should headers be nested? In that an h3 should always come after an h2, and an h4 should always proceed an h3. Or should we markup content relevant simply to how important we feel a certain heading is? For example, would it be good practice to use the following: h2Title/h2 psome text/p h4Sub-Title of Title/h4 pmore text/p or should I have used a h3 instead of an h4 because it is the logical next heading in order? [snip] Regards Lee Powell Hi Lee, Since we decide (with CSS) the size and weight of all the hx tags, is not feasible in this case to make h2 be the right size for your second heading? I presume not, in which case, if you have a sub-heading lower down your page that wants to be bigger than the first subheading, then what you are suggesting is fine. So I mean something like: h2Title/h2 psome text/p h4Sub-Title of Title/h4 pmore text/p h3Title/h3 psome text/p h4Sub-Title of Title/h4 pmore text/p And that seems fine to me. You can 'see' the structure by looking at the code, so it means (to me) that it's semantic. -- Bob www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Using headers symantically
On 3/20/07, Designer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: h2Title/h2 psome text/p h4Sub-Title of Title/h4 pmore text/p h3Title/h3 psome text/p h4Sub-Title of Title/h4 pmore text/p And that seems fine to me. You can 'see' the structure by looking at the code, so it means (to me) that it's semantic. That's incorrectly nested I'm afraid. The spec says (somewhere) that headings have to be correctly nested, and that you can't miss out a heading level - so you can't jump from H2 to H4 without there being an H3 in between somewhere. Think of it as a tree of content - each section belongs to a parent section. Matthew. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Using headers symantically
Lee Powell wrote: Last evening I was playing around with some conceptual work which included a vast number of headers, and it got me thinking into how best to use them, and indeed how the spec says to use them. The W3C spec states, that the range of headers goes from h1 through to h6, and that headers should be tagged relevant to their importance. If this is the case, should headers be nested? In that an h3 should always come after an h2, and an h4 should always proceed an h3. Or should we markup content relevant simply to how important we feel a certain heading is? .] Regards Lee Powell Headings show the logical structure of the page-- an outline. They are not used to add emphasis, or to change font size. You can machine check a page outline through the w3c validation service: validate the markupcheck Show Outineclick Revalidate. Use the link to the semantic data extractor below the outline for semantic info beyond an outline. Best, ~dL http://www.w3.org/2003/12/semantic-extractor.html -- http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Using headers symantically
On 20 Mar 2007, at 20:23:59, Matthew Pennell wrote: On 3/20/07, Designer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: h2Title/h2 psome text/p h4Sub-Title of Title/h4 pmore text/p h3Title/h3 psome text/p h4Sub-Title of Title/h4 pmore text/p And that seems fine to me. You can 'see' the structure by looking at the code, so it means (to me) that it's semantic. That's incorrectly nested I'm afraid. The spec says (somewhere) that headings have to be correctly nested, and that you can't miss out a heading level - so you can't jump from H2 to H4 without there being an H3 in between somewhere. Think of it as a tree of content - each section belongs to a parent section. Actually, all the spec says is: Some people consider skipping heading levels to be bad practice. They accept H1 H2 H1 while they do not accept H1 H3 H1 since the heading level H2 is skipped. http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/global.html#h-7.5.5 Judging from section 4 http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/conform.html this should not be considered normative; therefore, the standard does _not_require that heading levels be properly nested - although I would agree that there are very few cases where it might make sense to skip a level. As has already been pointed out in this thread, presentation is no justification, as that is under the control of CSS. Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Using headers symantically
Hi, In the past (and sometimes at present) Webpages were produced (I wouldn't say designed) with heading tags used purely for their visual presentation of text rather than actually being a header in the structure of the document. This is partly what the W3C is getting at. The important thing here is that the headers be used to structure the document correctly. It often helps to imagine writing the document in an ordinary (linear)wordprocessor and considering where the various levels of header should go to structure it correctly. Place headers according to their importance in the meaning and structure of the document. You might have several h2 headings each followed by their own related h3, h4, etc. headings. I wouldn't say skipping a level really matters, it is their relative rather than absolute importance to the preceding higher heading that counts. With this in mind, in your example: h2Title/h2 psome text/p h4Title/h4 --- not related, or a sub-head of h1, simply a less important heading pmore text/p If the h4 header is not related to, or a sub-head of, the preceding headers then it has no place in the structure of the document text preceding it. Therefore, to maintain a correct document structure, it should be a header equal to the highest previous header in the document or separated in some other way to make it clear that it is unrelated to previous content (if it should be on the same Webpage at all). At least that's how I see it. Stuart On Tue, March 20, 2007 7:16 pm, Lee Powell wrote: Hi all, Last evening I was playing around with some conceptual work which included a vast number of headers, and it got me thinking into how best to use them, and indeed how the spec says to use them. The W3C spec states, that the range of headers goes from h1 through to h6, and that headers should be tagged relevant to their importance. If this is the case, should headers be nested? In that an h3 should always come after an h2, and an h4 should always proceed an h3. Or should we markup content relevant simply to how important we feel a certain heading is? For example, would it be good practice to use the following: h2Title/h2 psome text/p h4Sub-Title of Title/h4 pmore text/p or should I have used a h3 instead of an h4 because it is the logical next heading in order? Again, in a large amount of markup, should I always use headers in a ascending order or simply place the relevant header element based on it's importance (as stated in the W3C specs)? h2Title/h2 psome text/p h4Title/h4 --- not related, or a sub-head of h1, simply a less important heading pmore text/p In this example, should I have used another h2? is it wise to simply jump to an h4? Incidentally, how do we weight the importance of headings? If a page had several h2 elements, no h3 elements, but a dozen h4 elements, would this indicate that the h4 elements simply weren't important enough to be given h3 tags? Sorry if I haven't explained myself very well, and this may seem a bit over-the-top way of thinking about how heading should be marked up, but some clarity in the matter would help my work. Regards Lee Powell *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Stuart Foulstone. http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk BigEasy Web Design 69 Flockton Court Rockingham Street Sheffield S1 4EB Tel. 07751 413451 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time
On Tue, March 20, 2007 11:56 am, Bob Schwartz wrote: You should also perhaps markup your logo H1 content as a change from the declared natural language of the page (English). Thanks for you tips Stuart: 1. How do I do that? 2.I'm curious as to why you think it is necessary - it is the name of the association - I doubt if Danone or Armani marks their names up as French or Italian on their English sites. I did say perhaps. 1. You can use the lang attribute, div id=logoh1 lang=fr 2. The idea is that speech synthesizers will pronouce it correctly and braille generators will be able to substitute the appropriate control codes. I was thinking more in terms of Web standards, rather than the standards of other Websites (Danone - 260 coding errors errors on home page; Armani - Flash!) Stuart -- Stuart Foulstone. http://www.bigeasyweb.co.uk BigEasy Web Design 69 Flockton Court Rockingham Street Sheffield S1 4EB Tel. 07751 413451 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] centring and viewport size (OT?)
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:43:58 +, Designer wrote: Thanks to those who responded on this. What I've done is to make a file which uses the javascript to determine the space available in the browser window, [...] You can see all this at: http://www.rhh.myzen.co.uk/gam/sandbox/ David Hucklesby suggested: Use JavaScript to change the element's top-margin style directly, perhaps? On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:56:06 +, Designer then asked: How exactly would you do that? (I'm interested, and I'm learning :-) ) Well, as you figured the amount of space needed to push the DIV down in order to center it, I was thinking of something like: contentDiv.style.marginTop = calculatedGap + 'px'; However, did you look at Georg's solution he sent Saturday? http://www.gunlaug.no/tos/alien/test_07_3810.html For IE, he uses JavaScript (or is it JScript?) in a Microsoft-only expression to position the DIV's top. It seems to solve your problem nicely, even in IE7, while modern browsers are happy with CSS alone. Cordially, David -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] centring and viewport size (OT?)
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 14:43:58 +, Designer wrote: Thanks to those who responded on this. What I've done is to make a file which uses the javascript to determine the space available in the browser window, [...] You can see all this at: http://www.rhh.myzen.co.uk/gam/sandbox/ David Hucklesby suggested: Use JavaScript to change the element's top-margin style directly, perhaps? On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:56:06 +, Designer then asked: How exactly would you do that? (I'm interested, and I'm learning :-) ) Well, as you figured the amount of space needed to push the DIV down in order to center it, I was thinking of something like: contentDiv.style.marginTop = calculatedGap + 'px'; However, did you look at Georg's solution he sent Saturday? http://www.gunlaug.no/tos/alien/test_07_3810.html For IE, he uses JavaScript (or is it JScript?) in a Microsoft-only expression to position the DIV's top. It seems to solve your problem nicely, even in IE7, while modern browsers are happy with CSS alone. Cordially, David -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] site check - almost ready for prime time
OK, you convinced me. Your reason for doing so is far more valid than my lame reasoning with the Danone and Armani examples. Thanks. On Tue, March 20, 2007 11:56 am, Bob Schwartz wrote: You should also perhaps markup your logo H1 content as a change from the declared natural language of the page (English). Thanks for you tips Stuart: 1. How do I do that? 2.I'm curious as to why you think it is necessary - it is the name of the association - I doubt if Danone or Armani marks their names up as French or Italian on their English sites. I did say perhaps. 1. You can use the lang attribute, div id=logoh1 lang=fr 2. The idea is that speech synthesizers will pronouce it correctly and braille generators will be able to substitute the appropriate control codes. I was thinking more in terms of Web standards, rather than the standards of other Websites (Danone - 260 coding errors errors on home page; Armani - Flash!) Stuart *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
