RE: [WSG] firefox treatment of wrapper overflow height

2008-07-17 Thread Thierry Koblentz
 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of kevin mcmonagle
 Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 11:05 AM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: Re: [WSG] firefox treatment of wrapper overflow height
 
 Thank you david,
 a tip from that article has me sorted.
 
 I put a div at the bottom of the rapper content like this:
 
 div class=clear/div
 
 .clear{clear:both}
 
 nice trick just kind of forces,
 
 
  but I still dont understand why the outer wrapper would'nt scale
 automatically with three
 columns in an inner wrapper with no heights set anywhere /unless /the
 outerwrapper was floated left or right itself..

Hi Kevin,

This may help:
http://tjkdesign.com/articles/clearing-floats_and_block-formatting_context.asp


-- 
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com







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RE: [WSG] Semantic markup of a byline date/time

2008-07-17 Thread Jens-Uwe Korff
 Did you manage to find a solution to this?

 
Hi Ben,
 
I ended up using this structure:
 
   div class=articleDetails cfix
h5Nam vestibulum leo id condimentum/h5
citeDominus 23, 2008 - 10:36AM/cite
pPage 1 of 3 a class=single href=#Single page view/a/p
p class=commentsa href=#commentsComments
span45/span/a/p
   /div

This is going to be a snippet which can be skinned, hence I wrapped it
into a div to allow for backgrounds. The H5 gives the byline the weight
it needs semantically over other content. I found cite to be
appropriate for the time stamp as it's a reference to when the article
was published (but I clearly see room for discussion on this).
 
For the other information I just used ordinary paragraphs with
appropriate classes to style them.
 
Cheers,
 
Jens 

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RE: [WSG] Semantic markup of a byline date/time

2008-07-17 Thread michael.brockington
I may be wrong, but your use of cite looks the wrong way around -
surely a citation should point at a document?
 
Mike




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jens-Uwe Korff
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 7:52 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Semantic markup of a byline  date/time


 Did you manage to find a solution to this?

 
Hi Ben,
 
I ended up using this structure:
 
   div class=articleDetails cfix
h5Nam vestibulum leo id condimentum/h5
citeDominus 23, 2008 - 10:36AM/cite
pPage 1 of 3 a class=single href=#Single page
view/a/p
p class=commentsa href=#commentsComments
span45/span/a/p
   /div




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Re: [WSG] firefox treatment of wrapper overflow height

2008-07-17 Thread Andrew Newman


a little more valid / semantic 

div.clearer {clear: both; line-height: 0; height: 0;}

div class=clearernbsp;/div

On 17/07/2008, at 4:04 AM, kevin mcmonagle wrote:


Thank you david,
a tip from that article has me sorted.

I put a div at the bottom of the rapper content like this:

  div class=clear/div

.clear{clear:both}

nice trick just kind of forces,


but I still dont understand why the outer wrapper would'nt scale  
automatically with three
columns in an inner wrapper with no heights set anywhere /unless / 
the  outerwrapper was floated left or right itself..


-best
kevin

David Hucklesby wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:08:47 +0100, kevin mcmonagle wrote:


hi,
I have a wrapper in that wont scale to its contained content/divs  
but there are no
heights set in the divs that i can see. Is there something else  
that can cause this? -




Yes. If the content has A.P. blocks or floats that are not  
contained

then the containing DIV might not expand.

If the problem is due to floats, there are several methods available
for containing them here:

http://www.digital-web.com/articles/web_design_101_floats/

Cordially,
David






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[WSG] line-height compatibility troubles

2008-07-17 Thread Bas V
Am I correct to notice that there is rather a bit of difference between 
browsers in the spacing between the lines of text?

My problem:
I have a box 359 x 359 pixels in which I need to put a set amount of text.
The text wraps exactly the same in all browsers, only the line height is 
different between some of them.

The text fits in Internet Explorer 6 and 7 and Opera 9.5 on PC, Firefox 2 and 
Safari on Mac, but in Firefox 2 and Internet Explorer 8 on PC it doesn't fit 
and is subsequently cut off.

I tried applying line-height: 12px; to the div that contains the text, that 
effected the spacing between the lines but that still didn't make it exactly 
the same in all browsers, there was still variation between them.

The page is XHTML 1.0 Strict (and CSS 2.1) valid, so how is it possible that 
some browsers show more line space, shouldn't it be all the same?

Your advice please.





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[WSG] ie six download?

2008-07-17 Thread kevin mcmonagle

I bought got an old laptop for testing sites-it has ie 5.5 on it now,

Anybody know where i can download an upgrade to ie6 for windows 2000 
proffessional?


best
kevin




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Re: [WSG] line-height compatibility troubles

2008-07-17 Thread Tijmen Smit
This should be a good read about line heights in different browsers -
http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2008/05/06/line-height-abnormal/ :)

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 11:29 AM, Bas V [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Am I correct to notice that there is rather a bit of difference between
 browsers in the spacing between the lines of text?

 My problem:
 I have a box 359 x 359 pixels in which I need to put a set amount of text.
 The text wraps exactly the same in all browsers, only the line height is
 different between some of them.

 The text fits in Internet Explorer 6 and 7 and Opera 9.5 on PC, Firefox 2
 and Safari on Mac, but in Firefox 2 and Internet Explorer 8 on PC it doesn't
 fit and is subsequently cut off.

 I tried applying line-height: 12px; to the div that contains the text, that
 effected the spacing between the lines but that still didn't make it exactly
 the same in all browsers, there was still variation between them.

 The page is XHTML 1.0 Strict (and CSS 2.1) valid, so how is it possible
 that some browsers show more line space, shouldn't it be all the same?

 Your advice please.




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Re: [WSG] ie six download?

2008-07-17 Thread Tijmen Smit
For testing purposes you can install http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE, it
also installs IE 6.

Tijmen


On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 11:35 AM, kevin mcmonagle 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I bought got an old laptop for testing sites-it has ie 5.5 on it now,

 Anybody know where i can download an upgrade to ie6 for windows 2000
 proffessional?

 best
 kevin




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Re: [WSG] firefox treatment of wrapper overflow height

2008-07-17 Thread kevin mcmonagle

Andrew Newman wrote:


a little more valid / semantic 

div.clearer {clear: both; line-height: 0; height: 0;}

div class=clearernbsp;/div

On 17/07/2008, at 4:04 AM, kevin mcmonagle wrote:



now i can validate.

thank you
-kevin



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RE: [WSG] ie six download?

2008-07-17 Thread David Fuller - magickweb
http://oldversion.com/program.php?n=msie --- you can download any version
you like from there...

Hope it helps.

David Fuller
Head Developer
Magick Web
Web:http://www.magick.com.au
Tel:   0434 728 267
Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of kevin mcmonagle
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 7:36 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] ie six download?

I bought got an old laptop for testing sites-it has ie 5.5 on it now,

Anybody know where i can download an upgrade to ie6 for windows 2000 
proffessional?

best
kevin




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Re: [WSG] Semantic markup of a byline date/time

2008-07-17 Thread Rick Lecoat
On 17 Jul 2008, at 10:06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:


I may be wrong, but your use of cite looks the wrong way around -  
surely a citation should point at a document?


If it's a cite _attribute_, then yes, it should point at a document.  
But a cite element, as I understand it, marks up a piece of  
attribution text, and so can simply be the name of a person, or  
whatever.

Eg.

blockquote
pSome article text blah blah blah/p
pwritten by citeHarold Lloyd/cite/p
/blockquote

--
Rick Lecoat
www.sharkattack.co.uk



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RE: [WSG] Centered List

2008-07-17 Thread Tyrone Joseph
That worked a treat! Thank you very much!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tyrone Joseph
Sent: 15 July 2008 16:05
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: RE: [WSG] Centered List

Hi David,

Thank You for your reply. 

I haven't managed to implement your solution yet as I have been so busy, but I 
will let you know how it goes when I do!

Tyrone

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Owens
Sent: 14 July 2008 17:48
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Centered List

2008/7/14 Tyrone Joseph [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Thanks for your reply but this doesn't solve my problem as the size list
 will be controlled by a CMS. This means that there may be times when there
 are 7 options and there may be times when are 3 options.



 I somehow need to center the li elements without affecting other textual
 content within the containing div. I am trying by best to keep the HTML
 clean and I don't want to add any unnecessary divs within the main div.


Hi Tyrone,

I've been playing around for this, and have a pretty good looking
solution for you.

ul
lia href=#one/a/li
li
two
a href=#sold out/a
/li
lia href=#three/a/li
/ul

ul {
margin: 0;
text-align: center;
}

li {
display: inline-block;
border: 1px solid black;
padding: 5px;
margin: 5px;
vertical-align: top;
}

a {
display: block;
}

Plus you will need to send this to IE, preferably using conditional comments:

li {
zoom: 1;
display: inline;
}

Works in FF, IE 5.5, 6 and 7, Opera 9.5 and Safari 3 on PC. I haven't
looked at anything on a Mac yet.

Regards
David

http://fineartdavid.com


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Re: [WSG] ie six download?

2008-07-17 Thread Sajan Franco
Old apps has all the old versions

http://www.oldapps.com/internet_explorer.htm

Sajan Franco

2008/7/17 David Fuller - magickweb [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 http://oldversion.com/program.php?n=msie --- you can download any version
 you like from there...

 Hope it helps.

 David Fuller
 Head Developer
 Magick Web
 Web:http://www.magick.com.au
 Tel:   0434 728 267
 Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of kevin mcmonagle
 Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 7:36 PM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: [WSG] ie six download?

 I bought got an old laptop for testing sites-it has ie 5.5 on it now,

 Anybody know where i can download an upgrade to ie6 for windows 2000
 proffessional?

 best
 kevin




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 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG.
 Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.5.0/1556 - Release Date: 7/16/2008
 4:56 PM




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RE: [WSG] ie six download?

2008-07-17 Thread David Fuller - magickweb
I already said that Sajan. lol

 

David Fuller

Head Developer

Magick Web

Web:http://www.magick.com.au

Tel:   0434 728 267

Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]



  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Sajan Franco
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 10:38 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] ie six download?

 

Old apps has all the old versions 

http://www.oldapps.com/internet_explorer.htm

Sajan Franco

2008/7/17 David Fuller - magickweb [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

http://oldversion.com/program.php?n=msie --- you can download any version
you like from there...

Hope it helps.

David Fuller
Head Developer
Magick Web
Web:http://www.magick.com.au
Tel:   0434 728 267
Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of kevin mcmonagle
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 7:36 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] ie six download?

I bought got an old laptop for testing sites-it has ie 5.5 on it now,

Anybody know where i can download an upgrade to ie6 for windows 2000
proffessional?

best
kevin




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4:56 PM





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[WSG] Pop-Ups (BOM)

2008-07-17 Thread James Jeffery
What's your views on Pop-Ups? When I speak in terms of Pop-Ups I am
referring to the alert type Pop-Ups that are a part of the Browser Object
Model and NOT window Pop-Ups. The ones that are considered annoying!

I personally do not think they are annoying when used in the right way.
Google Mail uses them correctly. When you are writing an email and you
decide to close the tab or move to another webpage it will alert you and ask
you if you want to abandon the email you have spent 15 minutes writing and
forgot to save as a draft. In the same way MS Word would ask you if you want
to save an unsaved project. A good thing in my books.

They are probably only best used in Ajax applications in certain situations
when a users attention is needed. We have no problems using them in desktop
applications so why not use them in web applications (I am talking about
applications not web pages).

I am only writing this because I see developers label Pop-Ups as annoying.
Ganted, when used in the wrong way they are annoying, but you abuse anything
(including tables) and it becomes annoying/wrong.

To summarize, what's your views on Pop-Ups


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RE: [WSG] Pop-Ups (BOM)

2008-07-17 Thread David Fuller - magickweb
Popup messages can be VERY useful. These days with floating divs etc they
are not always necessary, however I do agree that they have a definite
place.

 

Personally I use them in my web applications.

 

If you look at dreamweaver's form validation scripts, they also use that
style of popup.

 

I personally think that when used properly they are great, otherwise just an
annoyance and can potentially crash a browser.

 

David Fuller

Developer

magickWEB 

Web: http://www.magick.com.au http://www.magick.com.au

Tel:   0434 728 267

Email:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]



  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of James Jeffery
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 11:21 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: [WSG] Pop-Ups (BOM)

 

What's your views on Pop-Ups? When I speak in terms of Pop-Ups I am
referring to the alert type Pop-Ups that are a part of the Browser Object
Model and NOT window Pop-Ups. The ones that are considered annoying!

I personally do not think they are annoying when used in the right way.
Google Mail uses them correctly. When you are writing an email and you
decide to close the tab or move to another webpage it will alert you and ask
you if you want to abandon the email you have spent 15 minutes writing and
forgot to save as a draft. In the same way MS Word would ask you if you want
to save an unsaved project. A good thing in my books.

They are probably only best used in Ajax applications in certain situations
when a users attention is needed. We have no problems using them in desktop
applications so why not use them in web applications (I am talking about
applications not web pages).

I am only writing this because I see developers label Pop-Ups as annoying.
Ganted, when used in the wrong way they are annoying, but you abuse anything
(including tables) and it becomes annoying/wrong.

To summarize, what's your views on Pop-Ups


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Re: [WSG] Pop-Ups (BOM)

2008-07-17 Thread Christian Montoya
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:30 AM, David Fuller - magickweb
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Popup messages can be VERY useful… These days with floating divs etc they
 are not always necessary, however I do agree that they have a definite
 place.


I think they can be more useful when a small sound is played. The
other option is an error message that appears in the document flow.

-- 
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.net


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Re: [WSG] firefox treatment of wrapper overflow height

2008-07-17 Thread David Hucklesby
 Andrew Newman wrote re: using a DIV to enclose floats:

 a little more valid / semantic 

 div.clearer {clear: both; line-height: 0; height: 0;}

 div class=clearernbsp;/div


Of course, that will create an extra vertical space in the layout. If that
space is unwanted, you could alternatively use this:

  div class=clearer!-- --/div

The empty comment prevents this space.

Of course, there are several other ways to enclose floats that do
not require that extra DIV.

Cordially,
David
--



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Re: [WSG] ie six download?

2008-07-17 Thread David Hucklesby
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:35:32 +0100, kevin mcmonagle wrote:
 I bought got an old laptop for testing sites-it has ie 5.5 on it now,

 Anybody know where i can download an upgrade to ie6 for windows 2000 
 proffessional?


Assuming you have a legit version of Win 2000, you can just run
a regular Windows update to get it.

FWIW - I did this a week ago to add IE6 to VMware Fusion on my MacBook.

Cordially,
David
--




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Re: [WSG] ie six download?

2008-07-17 Thread kevin mcmonagle

Thanks,
But I was afraid updating that way might put version 7 on, I can use net 
renderer to give me ie 7 previews.
The problem is that the renderers, and ies for mac,  dont render png 
transparency hacks very well...
Anyway sorted it all out with the link provided on previous post-very 
handy thanks for the links.

-best
kevin

David Hucklesby wrote:

On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:35:32 +0100, kevin mcmonagle wrote:
  

I bought got an old laptop for testing sites-it has ie 5.5 on it now,

Anybody know where i can download an upgrade to ie6 for windows 2000 
proffessional?




Assuming you have a legit version of Win 2000, you can just run
a regular Windows update to get it.

FWIW - I did this a week ago to add IE6 to VMware Fusion on my MacBook.

Cordially,
David
--




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Re: [WSG] ie six download?

2008-07-17 Thread Sajan Franco
oopz sorry i did not read that :)

Sajan

2008/7/17 David Fuller - magickweb [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

  I already said that Sajan. lol



 David Fuller

 Head Developer

 Magick Web

 Web:http://www.magick.com.au

 Tel:   0434 728 267

 Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

   --

 *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On
 Behalf Of *Sajan Franco
 *Sent:* Thursday, July 17, 2008 10:38 PM
 *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 *Subject:* Re: [WSG] ie six download?



 Old apps has all the old versions

 http://www.oldapps.com/internet_explorer.htm

 Sajan Franco

 2008/7/17 David Fuller - magickweb [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 http://oldversion.com/program.php?n=msie --- you can download any version

 you like from there...

 Hope it helps.

 David Fuller
 Head Developer
 Magick Web
 Web:http://www.magick.com.au
 Tel:   0434 728 267
 Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]



 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of kevin mcmonagle
 Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 7:36 PM
 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
 Subject: [WSG] ie six download?

 I bought got an old laptop for testing sites-it has ie 5.5 on it now,

 Anybody know where i can download an upgrade to ie6 for windows 2000
 proffessional?

 best
 kevin




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RE: [WSG] Pop-Ups (BOM)

2008-07-17 Thread Jens-Uwe Korff
 what's your views on Pop-Ups

My spontaneous answer is that I would expect pop-ups to alert me to
something that needs immediate attention, as you say when I forgot to
save my email draft. If I'm using web apps the correct way I don't
expect any pop-ups since web apps can manage all other feedback using
AJAX. For example, when filling out a form incorrectly, I expect
friendly messages appearing in the page, not in a pop-up.
 
Cheers,
 
Jens 

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RE: [WSG] Semantic markup of a byline date/time

2008-07-17 Thread Jens-Uwe Korff
 I may be wrong, but your use of cite looks the wrong way around - 
 surely a citation should point at a document?

 If it's a cite _attribute_, then yes, it should point at a document.  
 But a cite element, as I understand it, marks up a piece of
attribution text, and so can simply be the name of a person, or
whatever.
 Eg.

 blockquote
  pSome article text blah blah blah/p
  pwritten by citeHarold Lloyd/cite/p
 /blockquote

Yes, I'm using cite to reference the date. After a bit of search I
found this at [1]:

cite class=ref-book id=ref-edwards-civil_war_guns-1978
title=Edwards, Civil War Guns
span class=author Edwards. William B./span
span class=title Civil War Guns/span.
span class=publisher Castle Books/span.
span class=publication-date 1978/span.
/cite

It's clearly overkill for what I'm doing but I can understand why the
author did it this way.

Cheers,
Jens

[1] http://bytes.com/forum/thread97106.html


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[WSG] Lisa Kerrigan/StateDevPolicy/DSD is out of the office.

2008-07-17 Thread lisa . kerrigan

I will be out of the office starting  18/07/2008 and will not return until
21/07/2008.

For Content Requests contact Jason Rhodes on x19816.
For other requests contact  Wendy Pryor x 19321


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[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest

2008-07-17 Thread Helen McGee
I am on annual leave returning Monday, if your enquiry is urgent please contact 
Sarah Leaney on [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thanks
Helen


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