[WSG] RE: WSG Digest
Hi Tee When trying the max/min width approach, was the Meta Viewport Tag used? The Meta Viewport Tag as found in the Viewport section on http://developer.apple.com/library/safari/#documentation/AppleApplications/Reference/SafariHTMLRef/Articles/MetaTags.html meta name=viewport content=width=device-width,initial-scale = 1.0 is the standard one you'll see around the place including HTML5 Boilerplate. And this compliments the min/max approach (makes it sane). Equally I found using meta name=viewport content=initial-scale=1.0 worked, but I have yet to test it on many devices. The difference between the two are that on iOS the first will always keep the viewport width the same in both orientations, i.e. 320 portrait and landscape on iPhone. Whereas the second will be 320 in portrait and 480 in landscape. There is a bug in iOS that when using either of the above where orientating to landscape zooms the viewport. This was irritating to begin with but only requires a quick pinch to correct. There are hacks that fix it but so far I've only seen ones that disable zoom. I like zoom, so prefer to leave the bug with iOS. If not seen already, PPK's A Tale of Two Viewports is an excellent insight into this crazy world :D http://www.quirksmode.org/mobile/viewports.html all the best, Dave @davesmiths I would love to hear what other think about the approach for device-width vs max/min width. For myself, I have done a couple sites targeting device-width and really think this is better approach. The hype about responsive design got me to try out the max/min width approach, I find that I need to tackle more the the window resizes (and this means writing more CSS rules means penalizing touchscreen device user), and the experience can be quite awful seeing it from desktop browser. I'm sort of in a defeated mood right now, really feel that except the ego to show off, I'm unable to find a convincing reason that desktop user needs to be given a responsive website anything smaller than 800px. tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] RE: WSG Digest
On 9/27/11 5:04 AM, Dave Smith wrote: Hi Tee When trying the max/min width approach, was the Meta Viewport Tag used? ::trim:: all the best, Dave @davesmiths Try also, simply: metaname=viewport content=width=device-width ~d -- Desktop. Laptop. Tablet. Mobile! http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of Office
Hi There Please be advised that I am currently out of the office on vacation until October 10 2011. Should you have an urgent support query please email our support team at supp...@jx2.com.au For general information queries please email i...@jx2.com.au Alternatively I will be able to get back to you upon my return to the office. Best Regards *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] media queries can't understand body tag
Hi Tee,
As far as I know all the stylesheets ánd all the linked resources in them like
background-images will be loaded with meadia-queries. So I am afraid that the
large background image that you try to avoid for mobiles, will be loaded anyway
as long as you try to solve this with media-queries.
Bye,
Frances
www.waalweb.nl
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Op 20 sep 2011, om 00:02 heeft tee het volgende geschreven:
Please see this.
http://bit.ly/mWvfWC
The reason I want to target body tag in media queries is because I don't want
to panelize mobile user to load the large background image. I started first
with min-width but the result was more problematic, so I switched to
max-width. As to the reason why there is a min-width and max-width separately
for 1024px is because I want to use a background image (no repeat-x) that
fills up the width of the desktop's screen (e.g. 2500px), and there is no
reason to ask the 1024 screen resolutions' user loads this large image.
tee
On Sep 18, 2011, at 2:43 PM, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis wrote:
On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 4:34 PM, tee weblis...@gmail.com wrote:
Hmmm, media queries can't understand body tag; a id or class for the tag is
needed. Spec on W3C site doesn't indicate though as I see example like so:
@media all { body { background:lime } }
A browser bug?
Works for me in Chrome:
http://pastehtml.com/view/b7qe04of6.html
Do you have a testcase you can point to that fails in a named browser?
--
Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
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Re: [WSG] media queries can't understand body tag
On 9/27/11 1:42 PM, Frances de Waal wrote: As far as I know all the stylesheets ánd all the linked resources in them like background-images will be loaded with meadia-queries. So I am afraid that the large background image that you try to avoid for mobiles, will be loaded anyway as long as you try to solve this with media-queries. What are you basing this on? A quick test in Chrome and Firefox on OS X and Chrome on an old G1 Android phone, at least, shows that *not* to be true; a background image is only loaded for the rule that matches the applicable media- query. You can watch the logs (or developer console) and see other images fetched as you resize the browser. What browsers/platforms have you tested where this doesn't work? -- Hassan Schroeder - has...@webtuitive.com webtuitive design === (+1) 408-621-3445 === http://webtuitive.com http://about.me/hassanschroeder twitter: @hassan dream. code. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] media queries can't understand body tag
I believe that Safari may be the browser with the 'loads anyway' problem. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2011, at 5:33 PM, Hassan Schroeder has...@webtuitive.com wrote: On 9/27/11 1:42 PM, Frances de Waal wrote: As far as I know all the stylesheets ánd all the linked resources in them like background-images will be loaded with meadia-queries. So I am afraid that the large background image that you try to avoid for mobiles, will be loaded anyway as long as you try to solve this with media-queries. What are you basing this on? A quick test in Chrome and Firefox on OS X and Chrome on an old G1 Android phone, at least, shows that *not* to be true; a background image is only loaded for the rule that matches the applicable media- query. You can watch the logs (or developer console) and see other images fetched as you resize the browser. What browsers/platforms have you tested where this doesn't work? -- Hassan Schroeder - has...@webtuitive.com webtuitive design === (+1) 408-621-3445 === http://webtuitive.com http://about.me/hassanschroeder twitter: @hassan dream. code. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] media queries can't understand body tag
On 9/27/11 3:33 PM, Tom Livingston wrote: I believe that Safari may be the browser with the 'loads anyway' problem. Safari is a Webkit-based browser like Chrome, so I expect them to behave pretty identically, but, for the record: just tested Safari 5.1 (OS X) and it also does *not* load all the background images, only the media-query-specified one. -- Hassan Schroeder - has...@webtuitive.com webtuitive design === (+1) 408-621-3445 === http://webtuitive.com http://about.me/hassanschroeder twitter: @hassan dream. code. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] media queries can't understand body tag
I believe it's the iOS Safari with the issue, where it would be most troublesome. Not sure how to test this. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2011, at 7:08 PM, Hassan Schroeder has...@webtuitive.com wrote: On 9/27/11 3:33 PM, Tom Livingston wrote: I believe that Safari may be the browser with the 'loads anyway' problem. Safari is a Webkit-based browser like Chrome, so I expect them to behave pretty identically, but, for the record: just tested Safari 5.1 (OS X) and it also does *not* load all the background images, only the media-query-specified one. -- Hassan Schroeder - has...@webtuitive.com webtuitive design === (+1) 408-621-3445 === http://webtuitive.com http://about.me/hassanschroeder twitter: @hassan dream. code. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] RE: WSG Digest
I wonder if there is a way to restrict mobile phone devices from scaling, but allows touchscreen devices (ipad, samsung galaxy etc) do so. Tee On Sep 27, 2011, at 3:31 AM, David Laakso wrote: On 9/27/11 5:04 AM, Dave Smith wrote: Hi Tee When trying the max/min width approach, was the Meta Viewport Tag used? ::trim:: all the best, Dave @davesmiths *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] media queries can't understand body tag
So iOS Safari loads 4 bg images in this case?
@media screen and (max-width:480px){ body { background:olive
url(bg-bodytop-480.jpg) no-repeat left -50px} }
@media screen and (max-width:768px){ body { background:gray
url(bg-bodytop-768.jpg) no-repeat left center} }
@media screen and (max-width:1024px){ body { background:blue
url(bg-bodytop-1205-and-bigger.jpg) no-repeat center center} }
@media screen and (max-width:1024px){ body { background:blue
url(bg-bodytop-1024.jpg) no-repeat left 20px} }
tee
On Sep 27, 2011, at 4:20 PM, Tom Livingston wrote:
I believe it's the iOS Safari with the issue, where it would be most
troublesome. Not sure how to test this.
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Re: [WSG] media queries can't understand body tag
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe so, yes. I was just brow-beaten
offlist by someone because of my reply below. YES, I have an iPhone,
but what I don't know is how to test - with JUST iOS Safari - whether
of not a bg image is downloaded to Safari. I'd be glad to test it for
you, if you can tell me how to confirm it.
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 9:51 PM, tee weblis...@gmail.com wrote:
So iOS Safari loads 4 bg images in this case?
@media screen and (max-width:480px){ body { background:olive
url(bg-bodytop-480.jpg) no-repeat left -50px} }
@media screen and (max-width:768px){ body { background:gray
url(bg-bodytop-768.jpg) no-repeat left center} }
@media screen and (max-width:1024px){ body { background:blue
url(bg-bodytop-1205-and-bigger.jpg) no-repeat center center} }
@media screen and (max-width:1024px){ body { background:blue
url(bg-bodytop-1024.jpg) no-repeat left 20px} }
tee
On Sep 27, 2011, at 4:20 PM, Tom Livingston wrote:
I believe it's the iOS Safari with the issue, where it would be most
troublesome. Not sure how to test this.
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Re: [WSG] media queries can't understand body tag
Actually, the way you have this, I think it will work. If you had
something in your base styles, or in the first media query that was
set to display:none with a bg image, then that may get downloaded
anyway. Again, tell me how to check and i'll be glad to test it for
you.
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe so, yes. I was just brow-beaten
offlist by someone because of my reply below. YES, I have an iPhone,
but what I don't know is how to test - with JUST iOS Safari - whether
of not a bg image is downloaded to Safari. I'd be glad to test it for
you, if you can tell me how to confirm it.
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 9:51 PM, tee weblis...@gmail.com wrote:
So iOS Safari loads 4 bg images in this case?
@media screen and (max-width:480px){ body { background:olive
url(bg-bodytop-480.jpg) no-repeat left -50px} }
@media screen and (max-width:768px){ body { background:gray
url(bg-bodytop-768.jpg) no-repeat left center} }
@media screen and (max-width:1024px){ body { background:blue
url(bg-bodytop-1205-and-bigger.jpg) no-repeat center center} }
@media screen and (max-width:1024px){ body { background:blue
url(bg-bodytop-1024.jpg) no-repeat left 20px} }
tee
On Sep 27, 2011, at 4:20 PM, Tom Livingston wrote:
I believe it's the iOS Safari with the issue, where it would be most
troublesome. Not sure how to test this.
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Re: [WSG] media queries can't understand body tag
Hi Tom,
Thank you. I don't know how to check it either, I have iPad and iPod, so would
like to learn how to check too.
Used to think browsers load all bg images even with display none declared, and
one of the reasons I wanted to try out the min/max width approach this time is
because I (thought) read it from Responsive Web Design ebook by Ethan Marcotte,
that by targeting the rules in the media queries it prevent browers from
loading unnecessary rules. But I can't find this important peice of info from
the book with a quick search just now.
tee
On Sep 27, 2011, at 7:02 PM, Tom Livingston wrote:
Actually, the way you have this, I think it will work. If you had
something in your base styles, or in the first media query that was
set to display:none with a bg image, then that may get downloaded
anyway. Again, tell me how to check and i'll be glad to test it for
you.
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe so, yes. I was just brow-beaten
offlist by someone because of my reply below. YES, I have an iPhone,
but what I don't know is how to test - with JUST iOS Safari - whether
of not a bg image is downloaded to Safari. I'd be glad to test it for
you, if you can tell me how to confirm it.
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 9:51 PM, tee weblis...@gmail.com wrote:
So iOS Safari loads 4 bg images in this case?
@media screen and (max-width:480px){ body { background:olive
url(bg-bodytop-480.jpg) no-repeat left -50px} }
@media screen and (max-width:768px){ body { background:gray
url(bg-bodytop-768.jpg) no-repeat left center} }
@media screen and (max-width:1024px){ body { background:blue
url(bg-bodytop-1205-and-bigger.jpg) no-repeat center center} }
@media screen and (max-width:1024px){ body { background:blue
url(bg-bodytop-1024.jpg) no-repeat left 20px} }
tee
On Sep 27, 2011, at 4:20 PM, Tom Livingston wrote:
I believe it's the iOS Safari with the issue, where it would be most
troublesome. Not sure how to test this.
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Re: [WSG] media queries can't understand body tag
I have that as well. I believe with the approach you have - mobile
first, ala 320andup (http://stuffandnonsense.co.uk/projects/320andup/)
- you don't put anything on the page (or in the style) for mobile
unless you really want it there and loading. As opposed to using media
queries to go from desktop to mobile and turning off what you don't
want to show on mobile. Admittedly, I have done this a couple times,
but they were small overhead sites.
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 10:29 PM, tee weblis...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Tom,
Thank you. I don't know how to check it either, I have iPad and iPod, so
would like to learn how to check too.
Used to think browsers load all bg images even with display none declared,
and one of the reasons I wanted to try out the min/max width approach this
time is because I (thought) read it from Responsive Web Design ebook by Ethan
Marcotte, that by targeting the rules in the media queries it prevent browers
from loading unnecessary rules. But I can't find this important peice of info
from the book with a quick search just now.
tee
On Sep 27, 2011, at 7:02 PM, Tom Livingston wrote:
Actually, the way you have this, I think it will work. If you had
something in your base styles, or in the first media query that was
set to display:none with a bg image, then that may get downloaded
anyway. Again, tell me how to check and i'll be glad to test it for
you.
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Tom Livingston tom...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe so, yes. I was just brow-beaten
offlist by someone because of my reply below. YES, I have an iPhone,
but what I don't know is how to test - with JUST iOS Safari - whether
of not a bg image is downloaded to Safari. I'd be glad to test it for
you, if you can tell me how to confirm it.
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 9:51 PM, tee weblis...@gmail.com wrote:
So iOS Safari loads 4 bg images in this case?
@media screen and (max-width:480px){ body { background:olive
url(bg-bodytop-480.jpg) no-repeat left -50px} }
@media screen and (max-width:768px){ body { background:gray
url(bg-bodytop-768.jpg) no-repeat left center} }
@media screen and (max-width:1024px){ body { background:blue
url(bg-bodytop-1205-and-bigger.jpg) no-repeat center center} }
@media screen and (max-width:1024px){ body { background:blue
url(bg-bodytop-1024.jpg) no-repeat left 20px} }
tee
On Sep 27, 2011, at 4:20 PM, Tom Livingston wrote:
I believe it's the iOS Safari with the issue, where it would be most
troublesome. Not sure how to test this.
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Re: [WSG] media queries can't understand body tag
On 9/27/11 10:29 PM, tee wrote: Hi Tom, Thank you. I don't know how to check it either, I have iPad and iPod, so would like to learn how to check too. tee Not terribly scientific but simply clear the cache on the iPad and the iPhone and view the page. You'll know whether it is loading in either or both devices. ~d -- Desktop. Laptop. Tablet. Mobile! http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] media queries can't understand body tag
David, with nothing but mobile Safari, if I hit a page with multiple queries or an element specced as display:none but has a bg image, how to you *verify* that an unwanted image loads anyway or not? There's no inspector that I'm aware of like desktop version. Sent from my iPhone On Sep 27, 2011, at 11:23 PM, David Laakso da...@chelseacreekstudio.com wrote: On 9/27/11 10:29 PM, tee wrote: Hi Tom, Thank you. I don't know how to check it either, I have iPad and iPod, so would like to learn how to check too. tee Not terribly scientific but simply clear the cache on the iPad and the iPhone and view the page. You'll know whether it is loading in either or both devices. ~d -- Desktop. Laptop. Tablet. Mobile! http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] media queries can't understand body tag
On 9/27/11 11:44 PM, Tom Livingston wrote: David, with nothing but mobile Safari, if I hit a page with multiple queries or an element specced as display:none but has a bg image, how to you *verify* that an unwanted image loads anyway or not? There's no inspector that I'm aware of like desktop version. Sent from my iPhone With Android/2.2.2 [low-end touch screen] there is a horizontal yellow loading bar above the address bar-- it begins at the left rail and moves to the right rail. Opera Mobile and OperaMini on Android both have a circular whirling gizzmo loading button [same on a low-end SanyoMirro]. I had an iPhone several years ago but have forgotten what it used to display downloading. I am sure there is a more scientific method than watching[timing] the loading gizzmo-- just don't know what it is. And either way, I did not memorize Tee's page address, and don't have time to look it up, or I'd check that page on my handset... ~d -- Desktop. Laptop. Tablet. Mobile! http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] media queries can't understand body tag
On 9/27/11 8:44 PM, Tom Livingston wrote: David, with nothing but mobile Safari, if I hit a page with multiple queries or an element specced as display:none but has a bg image, how to you *verify* that an unwanted image loads anyway or not? As I said in my original email: set up a test page on one of your servers and tail the appropriate log file; you can see when images are fetched. The original question was about media queries, not elements set to `display: none`, but the same method should work. -- Hassan Schroeder - has...@webtuitive.com webtuitive design === (+1) 408-621-3445 === http://webtuitive.com http://about.me/hassanschroeder twitter: @hassan dream. code. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
