Re: [WSG] intranet benchmarking quiz
plasmo wrote: Hi, I am currently reviewing an area of an intranet, and getting a lot of anecdotal comments such as all the intranets I've ever seen worked like this. To deal with this somewhat, I am taking a short quiz of people's experiences with their current intranets. If anyone here can help, replies would be most appreciated. Kind regards, Vanessa Toholka QUESTIONS: 1. Does your company have a single overarching intranet, which is the first point that everyone goes to, with sub sections for various groups OR do you have a separate site for each section or group within the company? 2. Is your intranet built on a standard set of templates reflected across divisions, or are your sub sites or various intranets very different? 3. If a new service/resource was being launched in your organisation would the announcement be made via email or via the intranet? 4. Do you utilise any collaboration tools. (discussion boards, wikis, blogs etc?) If so do they enjoy a good level of user activity and participation? *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** It's hard to tell what you're asking for because I think you are misusing the word intranet (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intranet). From the way you have your questions worded, it seems to me that you are referring to subdomains (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subdomain). Could you give an example of the various organizational strategies you are asking about? Carl. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] standards or confusion?
Peter J. Farrell wrote: Martin Heiden wrote: Do it on the serverside!!! Maybe I'm a cycle head, but it seems silly to use computation cycles (although very little) to compute a year that changes only once per year. Use a server side include or hard code it in your footer template and remember to change it in the new year. Guess this is my enterprise application architecture brain talking here. .Peter To me the real problem with this example is that by entering the copyright year into the document using JavaScript, you are letting the user decide which year your document is copyrighted in. If the user's machine time is not set correctly, your copyright date will reflect whatever year the time is set to. I realize that very few people have their clocks set so far off that this will be a major problem, but, it is important to keep in mind that JavaScript is a client side language and you need to be aware that changes in the client machine's environment will affect the document they see when you are using JavaScript to generate content based on the user environment. For things like copyright notices, I agree with Peter that they should be generated server side, or hard coded into the page. However, I think the point of Bob's example, is to ask the question: How should I write the JavaScript if I have an item in one or more pages that changes dynamically with time or with each page load? I think Lachlans answer is that strict separation of behavior and content creates a better structure for the page that is easier to create and maintain. I personally feel that moving a single line of JavaScript to a separate file is pushing this paradigm too far. However, putting a single line of JavaScript in every link on a page would have the same effect as in-lining all your CSS. If you ever have to make a change to the page, you will be searching through the content to find all those single JavaScript line rather than looking in one file for a place to change them. Carl. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Sliced Image Dilema
Jeff D. Reid wrote: Can anyone here please post urls to some reading regarding the use of sliced images in building a website vs using CSS instead. Kind of a pros and cons type of paper. I find your question a little confusing. The use of sliced images and CSS are not mutually exclusive. As a matter of fact, ImageReady has an option to create a layout for a sliced image using CSS. The use of sliced images is not common these days, because people have found other ways of creating layouts, but you can use sliced images with layouts very effectively using CSS for the image placement. What are you trying to do that would require you to use one or the other? Carl. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check Win 2000
Dean | eCreate wrote: If anybody out there has Win 2000 running IE6 could you check this URL: http://www.stthomasaquinasacademy.org/ I am getting one report that it is loading but then hanging up IE. Thanks, Dean ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** . Yep, It hangs IE. I'm running Windows 2000, IE 6.0.2800.1106. The page displayed and I switched back to Firefox to read your description of the problem. I could not then bring IE back to the front. I could, however, see the progress bar in IE's status bar moving so I thought I would give it a few minutes to load. When the status bar almost reached 100%, IE kind of flickered and replaced the content of the status bar with static and I had to kill the process to get it to go away. Carl. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check Win 2000
Dean | eCreate wrote: If anybody out there has Win 2000 running IE6 could you check this URL: http://www.stthomasaquinasacademy.org/ I am getting one report that it is loading but then hanging up IE. Thanks, Dean ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** . Just saw your later message about browser width. If I view the page with IE filling the screen (1024x76), the page displays with no problem. If I reduce the window size, the browser hangs after displaying the page. Carl. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check Win 2000
Dean | eCreate wrote: If anybody out there has Win 2000 running IE6 could you check this URL: http://www.stthomasaquinasacademy.org/ I am getting one report that it is loading but then hanging up IE. Thanks, Dean ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** . Yes, It works fine now at all widths. A note aside: I had noticed when you had the JavaScript in the page to test the width, the browser seemed to freeze when it was trying to redisplay the vertical scroll bar. Carl. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Check Win 2000
I think your problem is in this line of the function P7_setMinWidth:
if(cw=w){w-=ad;g.style.width=w+px;}else{g.style.width=auto;}}
I haven't really tried it to find out, but it looks as if you have set
the minimum width to 770px in P7_limit. That is about where the page
locks up when you start with a window the size of the screen and slowly
decrease the size.
I think the browser resizes the page to less than 770 and this statement
causes the width to be set back to 770. Then the browser adds the scroll
bar on the right and decreases the size of the page by the width of the
scroll bar which causes another resize event. This invokes
P7_setMinWidth which sees that the page is less than 770 so it resizes
the screen to 770 which causes the browser to redraw the page at 770,
then it adds the scroll bar and reduces the size below 770 causing a
resize event .
Carl.
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Re: [WSG] Images not loading...
Kim Kruse wrote: Hi, On this page http://mouseriders.dk/esrum/test.htm I have some sort of problem in FF and other Gecko browsers. The images just don't show up unless I scroll the page, mouseover the links or reload the page. Does anybody know why? The page looks the same in FF-1.0.4 and IE-6 on Windows-2000. There is an image of some buildings with the words Esrum Mollegard at the top of the page. The nav bar with six items is directly under that image. The nav items roll-over. Under the nav bar is an image with the words Aktivitets eksempel Under that is a lot of text with an up-arrow at the bottom. On the right side is a side bar with some links and two pictures of people. All of this is followed by a horizontal blue bar with what looks like contact information. This is in both Firefox and InterNET Explorer. The page looks pretty complete to me, but then I can't read it. What are you missing? Carl. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] disappearing element in page
Ingo Chao wrote: Ingo Chao schrieb: Carl Reynolds schrieb: http://hyperbole-software.com/movie-buzz/ http://www.satzansatz.de/cssd/tmp/disappearingcontent.html And I think the problem (the a. p. menu is disappearing in IE6 and IE5.5 on reload) is triggered when the floated div#center-layout's margin-left: any value em + width:70% exceeds 100%. I just noticed that Bruno Fassino already has some more comprehensive test cases and solutions here http://brunildo.org/test/IE_raf3.html Ingo ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Thanks Ingo for your responses. I spent the day yesterday looking at the things you suggested and at brunildo's site to see how they apply to my problem. I agree with you that it looks as if the problem arises when the browser thinks the total width of the page exceeds 100%. That was a great insight I hadn't seen before. I still haven't found a solution to the problem, but have been able to minimize it by changing the right margin of the #center-layout to 0 for IE. This allows the window to get narrower before the scroll bar appears and apparently the width parameter causes it to show some of the background on the right so I'm getting the effect I want. A friend of mine looked at the page on a Mac using OS-X and IE5 and said that the text in the #center-layout (the four paragraphs of text) are left aligned and only extend half way across the #center-layout. Are you seeing anything like this? Thanks again for your help, Carl. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] disappearing element in page
I am creating a page using a fluid two column layout. I think I have the page looking the way I want it in Firefox/win. It also looks OK in IE/win, but if I narrow the IE window enough that a horizontal scroll bar appears and refresh, or go to the page for the first time, the menu area (on the left) disappears. If I then widen the window far enough for the scroll bar to go away, the menu appears and remains visible, even if I narrow the window again. The menu will stay visible until I refresh the window again with the scroll bar visible. Here is a link to the page http://hyperbole-software.com/movie-buzz/ and it's css is here http://hyperbole-software.com/movie-buzz/main.css The page is composed of a div called #menu that is position: absolute ( this is the one that vanishes) and a second div called #center-layout. #menu contains a ul containing links to other pages and #center-layout contains several other divs used to layout the center part of the page. I had thought this might be a peek-a-boo bug and have applied position: relative to #menu and its children and to #center-layout and most of its children. That didn't change the behavior at all. Since none of these changes helped, I removed them to keep the css file uncluttered. Would you please take a look at the page and see if you can suggest a solution? Thank you very much for any assistance. Carl. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Client wants flashing text
Jeff Oien wrote: When a client wants some flashing text for emphasis, what do you do or tell them? Jeff ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** In reading the other messages in this thread, I was surprised to see that the minimum blink rate supported by text-decoration:blink is 2Hz. That still seems pretty fast to me. If the client *insists* that the text be blinking, add some JavaScript to the page so that the text is occulted: on for 2 seconds, off for 1/4 seconds, on for 2 seconds, etc. Carl. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] The mail problem
russ - maxdesign wrote: Can I just add here that Scott Parsons is definitely not the person who's email address was the problem - although his email post hit the list in spectacular fashion it was not his fault in any way. And in case you are wondering who suggested shutting down the whole mail server... You guessed it, that was me. Just don't let me near any nuclear weapons! Again, thanks everyone for your patience. Russ I've spoken to the person who's email address was the problem and I am not holding the person responsible for the issues. I guess these things happen from time to time. In case of a similar problem in the future I'll alert a few other people on how to suspend the list without shutting down the whole mail server. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** russ, I'd feel real safe having you near any nuclear weapons if every time there were a problem your reaction is to shut them down. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Access Key question
tee wrote: I'd read a couple of blogs regarding the access keys, although opinion are spitted, I decided to implement access keys on my sites. While fixing my sites in different languages, I realized I cannot use the same access keys for both, say Traditional Chinese and Simplified Chinese, and here a disturbing question emerges. We can only use 26 alphabet + 0 to 9 digit right? In this case there are only 36 access keys we can use. How can one solves this dilemma if a site involve with more than 36 pages? tee ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** . How long is your access key? If the access key is only one letter long then there are only 36 possible keys, if it is two letters long there are 36*36 = 1296 possible keys, if three letter 36*36*36 = 46656 possible keys, etc. Carl. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Access Key question
Carl Reynolds wrote: tee wrote: I'd read a couple of blogs regarding the access keys, although opinion are spitted, I decided to implement access keys on my sites. While fixing my sites in different languages, I realized I cannot use the same access keys for both, say Traditional Chinese and Simplified Chinese, and here a disturbing question emerges. We can only use 26 alphabet + 0 to 9 digit right? In this case there are only 36 access keys we can use. How can one solves this dilemma if a site involve with more than 36 pages? tee ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** . How long is your access key? If the access key is only one letter long then there are only 36 possible keys, if it is two letters long there are 36*36 = 1296 possible keys, if three letter 36*36*36 = 46656 possible keys, etc. Carl. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Never mind! I was thinking about something entirely different. :-[ Carl. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Firefox bug on mouse scrolling
designer wrote: Hi all, I notice a bug in Firefox (I think it is, anyway) which shows itself as a 2-3 pixel gap appearing in the bottom border of an image when the viewport is altered by scrolling with the mouse wheel. It doesn't affect all the images (strange) only some, and the image must be outside the viewport before scrolling. In other words, an image which is near the top of the 'page' must be scrolled off the page and back on again for the effect to happen. Conversely, images which are low down the page (and hence, below the viewport) appear with the gap on mouse scrolling down. I've googled, and there does seem to be stuff out there about mouse scrolling and Firefox, but the refs seem to relate to Firefox 0.8 and the comments are a bit chaotic to say the least. I was hoping that one of you wizards would know about this, know if there was a fix, or know if the new Firefox has fixed it? You can see the effect by looking at: www.marscovista.fsnet.co.uk/urban/cv/resume.html - I'm using Firefox 1.0, BTW. Many thanks for any help. Bob McClelland, Cornwall (U.K.) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk P.S. Not often that Firefox is 'wrong' and IE 'right' ! :-) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** I've seen this happen when I scroll the page during downloading of a large image. I'm on a dial-up and if the image is large enough for me to watch it render, if I scroll the page while the image is still downloading, I may see gaps in the image. The gaps may stay there after the image has completed downloading, but, if I scroll it off the screen and back on, the whole image will be there. I'm not sure Id call this a bug. It's a feature. :-) Carl. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Color LCD Monitors vs traditional Monitors
Nancy Johnson wrote: Dear Webstandards, Are there any articles or standards out there that talk about how to pick colors for both LCD and traditional monitors? I have a website that is an intense blue that looks great in a tradiational monitor but looks terrible in an LCD monitor. Nancy Johnson Do you Yahoo!? Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.rd.yahoo.com/my/navbar/sethp/*http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs%20 I haven't seen any articles on the subject, but I know that I won't use an LCD screen when I'm picking colors for a site or an image. Every LCD screen I have ever worked on has a distinct blue cast to it and cause the colors to come out wrong. Of course picking colors is very subjective anyway. Even between two CRT screens I see a major shift in the colors. I assume that if I am seeing that much of a shift between two fairly closely calibrated screens in the same office, there is now way I can count on anyone viewing my site seeing the exact same colors I see. Carl. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] colour contrast analyser
Andreas Boehmer wrote: a colour contrast analyser, useful for checking foreground background colour combinations is now available. (http://www.nils.org.au/ais/web/resources/contrast_analyser/index.html) I like it. The colour picker is useful. But it seems you cannot manually enter HEX codes? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Steven, Very nice tool. Andreas mentioned he can't enter hex vales for the color. I am able to enter a hex value for color, but I notice that the color sample doesn't change until you have entered the sixth digit of the value and if you enter less than six digits moving focus to a different field doesn't change the color at all. Two options would be to modify the color in the sample as the user types the value or to analyse the hex value when the focus changes out of the text field. If the hex value is three digits long it would be nice if the program used the three digit code to create the color sample. Carl. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Two CSS Question
Hi Paul and Khwaja,
Thanks for your replys. I just ran across another method for including a
file into HTML. It involves using an XMLHttpRequest Object
http://developer.apple.com/internet/webcontent/xmlhttpreq.html. I ran
across an article about it here:
http://developer.apple.com/internet/webcontent/xmlhttpreq.html
I think it's interesting that a method developed by MircoSoft for an
ActiveX extension is being discussed in a site for Apple developers.
The method requires that you detect the kind of browser and create an
XMLHttpRequest Object base on whether the browser is Internet Explorer
or Mozilla based. From what I understand of the article this seems to be
making a request in JavaScript (or ActiveX) for the server to send more
information to the browser. The browser assumes the new file is XML and
interprets it to HTML.
The article says the W3C is considering a standard for the
XMLHttpRequest Object.
While the method has several drawbacks, it does allow the developer a
method of including a file into the HTML from client side as opposed to
.ASP, .NET, .JSP, or Perl which are all server side solutions.
Carl
Paul Novitski wrote:
At 02:14 PM 1/13/05, Carl Reynolds wrote:
If I have a section of HTML that is the same in all my files, is
there a way to put it in a file by itself and include it into each page?
Carl,
Here are two ways (I'll be interested to learn about others):
1) Use a server-side scripting language such as ASP, Perl, or PHP to
include component files into one downloaded page. ASP can do this
either with the #INCLUDE directive or through file I/O using the
FileSystemObject object, and I'm sure the other server-side scripting
languages have comparable methods.
2) Use a JavaScript inclusion directive in your HTML headers, e.g.:
script type=text/javascript src=navmenu.js/script
...in which navmenu.js contains something like this:
var navMenu = 'ul
lia href=aardvark.htmlAardvark/a/li
lia href=bananafish.htmlBananafish/a/li
/ul'
...and then write the value of navMenu into your document structure.
Paul
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Salman, Khwaja wrote:
Yes, carl you can definately inlude an HTML File or any file in an ASP
file. Yes, I think the HTML file cannot include the another HTML file.
Theritically it is possible but due to some technical reasons this is
not possile.
However, from Javsscript it is possilbe to read a file and then
document.write that htm into you htm file. But the dependency is that
if the browser has no support for java script or if the javascript is
disabled, then this appraoch fails.
The last approach that you have is to used the include directive in an
ASP file. If possible use the file name as ASP, because this way,
there is less chance that the dowload managers will actually download
the whole source, instead they download the processed page.
How to include, the include directive is
!--#include=FilePAth--
The file path can be absolute or a relative patj
Hope that helps
Salman
Wrom: RZFSQHYUCDDJBLVLMHAALPTCXLYRWTQTIPWIGYOKSTTZR
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 17:14:33 -0500
Subject: Re: [WSG] Two CSS Question
Salman,
I'm glad you asked about including, I have wondered that myself. I would
like to add another question to yours: If I have a section of HTML that
is the same in all my files, is there a way to put it in a file by
itself and include it into each page?
As far as your question #2 goes: are you talking about something like
#id { width: 100%; }
-- It's the attitude that determines the altitude of flight Salman,
Khwaja Tech Writer - Halcyon.
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Re: [WSG] Two CSS Question
Salman,
I'm glad you asked about including, I have wondered that myself. I would
like to add another question to yours: If I have a section of HTML that
is the same in all my files, is there a way to put it in a file by
itself and include it into each page?
As far as your question #2 goes: are you talking about something like
#id { width: 100%; }
---
div id=idcontent/div
Carl.
Salman, Khwaja wrote:
Hi People,
I am a Tech Writer and Web Developer. I am usually a silent reader in
WSG and being reading the amazing eye opening stuff about user
accessibily, layouts and many interesting stuffs.
1)
I would like ask what is the difference between using LINK REL and
@import statement in linking style sheets.
Both of them atatches the Style sheet to an HTML document, I would
like to know the pros and cons of attaching with link rel or attaching
with @import.
2)
Second, in CSS2, is there always a wrapper ID we have to define for
all our elements to hold. In other words we are restricting our selves
to be in the least minimum screen sizes.
Let me ask in another way. If i am using tables as layouts, (which I do
not like these days) I use width attribute as 100 %.
Is there any way to achieve the same funcionality in CSS 2 and with
screen size in-dependence.
Salman.
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Re: [WSG] Odd IE Issue...
Chris Stratford wrote: hey group, odd problem here: www.gamerdb.net using IE, that page seems to take AGES to load the background. why is this? it is a 2*2 gif... moz handles it just fine. when i click on STATS i seem to see a wipe effect down the page while the background fills in... ODD??? Help! Cheers! I'm not sure why you're using a background image. To my (old) eyes the background looks like a solid grey. You could do that with setting the background color. Anyway the reason your page takes so long to render is that your image is too small. Make the background image larger (16x16 for example, maybe even 32x32). It takes the browser longer to render a small image a lot of times than it does a larger image fewer times. I know that you wanted the image small so that it will download quickly, but the render time on an image that small more than makes up for the gain in download time. Making the image larger doesn't add that much to the download time (even on 28k) and dramatically speeds up the render time. Carl. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site Critique
Laurie Keith wrote: Hi, If any of you busy people have a spare 15 minutes, can you give me an honest evaluation on our new corporate web site. http://www.createwith.com I have my own opinions, but I would like to go back to the decision makers with some independent comments from other professionals. Regards, Laurie Keith - Senior Developer __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** I agree with what has been said before: Why use flash? The site is vary Spartan looking. The site doesn't seem to have much to say. Why make it zoom? While the Flash is loading, you flash a message up on the screen, but it went by so fast I didn't have time to read it. There used to be a rule in the video industry that if you want a viewer to read something on screen, it should be on the screen long enough for you to read it three times. I think a lot of the movie and video industry has gotten away from this rule because I see a lot of things that I barely have time to read once and the trend seems to put writing up for about three seconds and then remove it no matter how long the text is. Anyway, If the message you displayed People who create is important for me to read, I would suggest you leave it on the screen about three times as long as you do. Under the Work menu if I select one of the companies you have listed (which was clear I should do until I read someone else's post about looking at company details), there is a view button at the top. The button doesn't do anything. Should it? Oh, wait, I see that the '' and '' are supposed to be arrows. That wasn't clear. I hope these comments will help, Carl. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Semantic indentation
I like Bryan's markup the best as it uses the first-line attribute to
specify the indentation for each stanza.
When I first started to think about this the solution I conceived was
similar to the ones that Mordechai proposed and I like those as well,
however, if the css standard supports setting a different padding for
the first line of a paragraph, that is the way it should be marked up.
I disagree with the use of pre in this instance for the following
reason. Lets say you make the layout with seven spaces in front of the
second (and succeeding) lines of each stanza and then you or the
customer decides the indent should only be five spaces. You will have to
go through the entire site changing all the pre formated sections by
hand. If on the other hand you have used Bryan's or Mordechai's
solution, you only have to change the style sheet to change the
indentation. That is the purpose of css in the first place isn't it?
I feel that using dl or blockquote to mark this up is like using
table to create layout. You are integrating the layout into the content.
Carl.
Bryan Garnett-Law wrote:
This is my code for indenting text after the first line
.indent { text-indent: -2em; margin: 0 2em;}
.indent:first-line { text-indent: 2em; }
Bryan
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Re: [WSG] Circle menu
http://www.eblong.com/zarf/sitemap-disc.html I realize this isn't a menu, but is might be an example of a place to start the discussion. Is this kind of the idea you are trying to create? Carl. Jad Madi wrote: Greetings Any idea how to create a circle menu that fit the whole screen with html/css only ?? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site review plz.
Jacobus, I looked at your site using Firefox on Windows 2000 Pro. It is well put together. I find the pages a little too busy, but that is just personal taste. I went through the registration process and had the following problems: I didn't notice the I have read and understood the Terms Conditions http://www.freelancecontractors.com/member/signup.php?signupemail=freelance%40hyperbole-software.com# link until the page told me I needed to check the box beside it. You might want to change its placement or put the text in a box so the eye flows to it when reading down the page. The text in the popup window that contains the terms of use has its left margin about three inches to the left of the left edge of the window. I had to copy the text and paste it into an editor to read it. When I pressed the Register button, a dialog box kept telling me that the Web Site filed was missing or invalid. Since I had typed www.hyperbole-software.com into the field, I found it confusing, especially since the Web Site field is not a required field. I finally figured out that you expect http:// in front of the site designation. When I got to page three, the Register button is still active and since the process said it was a three step process and I had only pressed the Register button twice, I pressed it again. This time I got a message that my e-mail address was already registered. The Register button should not show up on page three. Once I finished the registration, there is no way to go back to the home page. The only way I could find to Login was to do a search and when I selected a project the site told me I was trying to access a members only page and asked me to login. you need to have a login or link to login on the home page and other pages. Also once logged in, there is no indication that I am logged in. It would be a good idea to add a line to each screen that says Welcome back user name. After I signed up, I expected my name to appear in the Newest Members section on the home page, but the same names were still listed there as before I signed up. I assume you are not generating this page out of your database so that it can automatically update this section. Jacobus van Niekerk wrote: Dear all, I would like to have your comments, as regards to improvements for: http://www.freelancecontractors.com If you encounter any errors/problems please give a short description of the error, the OS and browser details. Kind Regards Jacobus van Niekerk Creative Consultant web: http://www.catics.com/ | http://www.freelancecontractors.com tel: + 27 21 982 7805 This e-mail message is confidential and intended solely for the person to whom or the entity to which it is addressed. All the contents and any attachments remain the property of Catics Ltd unless so stated. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from reading, copying, using or disclosing this message to others. If you received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this e-mail or by telephoning +27 21 9827805 and thereafter delete the message. Catics Ltd does not accept liability for any personal views expressed in this message. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.772 / Virus Database: 519 - Release Date: 2004/10/01 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Slicing With Photoshop
To move your sliced images to another place on the page, place all the stuff ImageReady (Photoshop) generates inside another div !-- generated slices here --/div, give the enclosing division position: relative and control its position on the page as you wish. I don't understand your question about default layout settings. If you're asking how wide to make your total image before you slice it, you would be better off using 800x600 since statistics indicate that more people use that setting than the higher ones. However, it depends on your audience. It may be that most of the people who view your site will use a higher setting on their screen and you can get away with creating a larger graphic. Olajide Olaolorun wrote: Hi, I have some questions about slicing in photoshop. First of all, I noticed that when I slice and save it with the css settings instead of tables, photoshop uses the x and the y axis thingy to put the layout in order which means everyhting cannot move ... I wanted to know how to center the layout if it was not a whole page...? Second, I want to know what the default layout settings, the width is. I sometimes try 800*600 but I hate it because it is too small and wanted to know what the default if for people with 1024*768 or whatever it is... Thanks Olajide Olaolorun ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] articledates and bylines
If your thinking about using a byline tag a lot or a articledate tag, shouldn't you be thinking about doing this in XML? You could then use a byline Author C Writer/byline and use XSTL to control the appearance of all the by-lines. Martin Stender wrote: The address element sort of makes sense for bylines, although the spec says: The ADDRESS element may be used by authors to supply contact information for a document or a major part of a document such as a form. This element often appears at the beginning or end of a document. But I guess I just have to choose H5 or H6 for article-dates, right? Perhaps its just me, but I kind of wonder why there isn't a dedicated element for that, since publishing dates appear on tens of thousands of websites throughout the world. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] CSS Shorthand for color
I did a lot of research several years ago in the use of color in user interfaces that will be viewed by color blind people. The results we got showed that a wide range of colors works better for them than a narrow range. Of course it is not a good idea to uses exclusively bright red and bright green for everything on the sight, but a dark green next to a bright red with other colors will work quite well. Even for people with magenta-yellow, or violet-orange color blindness using a broad range of saturation's works better than having everything in restricted color ranges. Simon Jessey wrote: Another thing to consider is the large number of people who suffer some form of color blindness. This may further limit the palette you have available. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Purpose of this mailing list
I filter on the [WSG] in the subject line and would suggest that if you want to add other categories, it be done by adding to the [WSG]. For example, [WSG][CSS] subject,or [WSG] - CSS - subject. Justin French wrote: On Thursday, March 11, 2004, at 07:28 AM, Taco Fleur wrote: The only downside is that mailing list is that it is hard to organise it to specific folders. I have a folder for WSG but 90% of the mail ended up in my inbox instead because the from field is actually using the sender's name.\] You can also filter on the [WSG] in the subject, which is fool-proof. --- Justin French http://indent.com.au * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: Opening pages in new windows... was Re: [WSG] XHTML (OT??)
I agree with Michael and Ray that preserving the flow of information is the important idea here. I want to open links that go off site, or out of the normal flow in a new window. One example of this is if I have a page with a list of documents on various subjects, I want each document to open in a new window so that when the reader has finished reading a document, they can come back to the list page and read another if they want. I don't understand Lucian's comment that this takes away the users ability to open the document in a new window. Maybe what he is saying is that it takes away the users ability to open the document in the same window. I suppose that is the reason it is important to think before making the decision to open a new window for any link. But this is a tool like many others that can be abused or used for good and just because it CAN be abused doesn't mean we should ban it from every being used. Another perspective: I was discussing this issue recently with my business partner and he made the comment that he wished he could make EVERY link open in a new window without having to use the right button. I find this position a bit extreme, but it takes all kinds to make a world. Carl. re wrote: I open links to external sites in a new window as well. I think that as long as the action is consistent throughout a site, and obvious (all external links are displayed with an icon as well), then users will accept it. I don't think educated or web savvy users will pass up useful information because an external link opens up in a new window. I consider myself to be in your educated (or a little web-savvy) category...and it has certainly never offended me that a link opens up in a new window...on the contrary, I have found it bothersome when I follow a link in an article, that some external site replaces the page I was reading...and managing a site with tens of thousands of unique visitors/month, and tens of thousands repeat visitors...I've never heard one complaint regarding the opening of a new window. mho, Ray Lucian Teo wrote: As your audience and your potential customer, you are wont to pander to my every need. If you take away my ability to choose whether or not to open your link in a new window, a new tab, or even an existing window, it is likely I will never come back to your site. I'm not saying that in a personal way, I'm just voicing out what most educated (or a little web-savvy) audiences think. It should be your site content and design, rather than a target _blank that keeps them going there. A simple shift-click brings on the new window. It is possibly a good idea to put those instructions for the user. Lucian Teo http://tribolum.com/ On Feb 8, 2004, at 8:45 PM, Michael Kear wrote: The reason is we go to a great deal of trouble to get users to come to our site and we don't want to send them away again. That's why I never allow a client to sign up for any of those awards sites or top 100 sites. A site gets higher ratings with search engines if there are a lot of other sites linking to you. To get those links you usually need reciprocal links, but that doesn't mean you want to send your users off to those sites just yet.That's the reason you need to have a way to open a link but still keep the users in the one place. Another reason is if links go off to subsidiary information. You still want to keep the flow of the original article. For example, try reading the technical data relating to an update on the Microsoft site. You start out by reading that this update requires the prior installation of update something else. To find out if you have that update you go off to that link, which in turn takes you on another link and then another and another, and before you know it you're off down the yellow brick road and have no idea how to get back to the original point. If any of the pages are dynamic you can't use the back button. As a general rule, any link that takes a user outside my site, I put it in a new window. If it takes them somewhere in this site, I don't. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com -Original Message- From: James Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, 8 February 2004 10:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Opening pages in new windows... was Re: [WSG] XHTML (OT??) Hi This kind of thing should be left up to the end user. As an example have a look at the NASA sites at the moment -windows opening everywhere and even using javascript to replace a simple target=_blank (why??). Really annoying. Modern browsers have an open in new window and the good ones have open in new tab on the context menu. We should be letting the users (us as well as others) decide where they want to open a new page as it's their browsing environment. Many UA's can force all links to open in the same page, rendering any targeting useless. Denoting external links with
Re: [WSG] Delimiting columns in a 3column fluid layout
Try looking at http://www.hyperbole-software.com. If I understand the description you gave of your layout. It is an example of what you are trying to do. It creates a three column layout with a vertical line between the sections to divide the three columns. Carl. Michael Kear wrote: Thanks Russ. You really are one of the good guys. I was hoping there was a way to do this without using graphics, because that requires that the columns be fixed in width, but I guess you can't have everything. It's still miles better than the site we had before. Here you are at 1am Sunday morning talking shop on the net. Just like me. Looks like neither of us has a life. Thanks again. Cheers Mike Kear -Original Message- From: russ weakley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, 1 February 2004 12:07 AM To: Web Standards Group Subject: Re: [WSG] Delimiting columns in a 3column fluid layout Wrap the layout in two containers and place a background image inside each. The first container has a background image 180px wide that is blank except for a line along its right edge - to fake the left column border. Set the background to repeat y. The second container has a background image 180px wide that is blank except for a line along its left edge - to fake the right column border. Set the background to repeat y. No matter how deep the content inside any column grows, the lines will always grow with them. Full step by step of how to do it here: http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/tutorial_intro.htm Finished sample here: http://css.maxdesign.com.au/selectutorial/steps/step22.htm All you need to do is replace the graphics I have used with your own versions - lines instead of solid backgrounds. :) Russ I am building a site in a 3 column fluid layout (with header and footer divs) and I want to have a grey line between the columns to delineate them. I know I can use a background graphic with a background-repeat:y; to create the line, but the problem is different columns will be the longest in different pages. If I put a background graphic in the left and right columns, that will draw the grey delimiter as far down the page as content goes in those columns but there are is a problem with that approach: The side columns have to be a fixed width and that sort of takes away some of the 'fluidness' of the layout. Is there any way to make both the grey column delineators go all the way down the page to the top of the footer div at the bottom? Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * Thanks Russ --- Russ Weakley Max Design Phone: (02) 9410 2521 Mobile: 0403 433 980 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.maxdesign.com.au --- * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
