Re: [WSG] BBC in Beta
Hi Everyone, Just a quick note to let you know I was the one who posted the BBC link, but I have nothing to do with the BBC whatsoever. So if you want to send private feedback to the BBC, please do it direct to their webteam, or whoever is responsible for testing the Beta, whom unfortunately I dont have any contact details for. I just came across the Beta site from one of my clients and I thought I would share it here with you guys to get some conversation going. Maybe someone can invite the BBC to join the conversation. As I said, this is nothing to do with me, I dont work for the BBC so please dont direct comments about the new site to me. As for the site. I agree the colour changing is a bit annoying but for the design, it may be dated and not leading the pack and done to death in a lot of IT websites etc, but I think for the general public who this site is aimed at most will like it. I actually quite like that look and dont see it around as often as some of you seem to do. But time will tell. Apart from that I too agree the font sizing and the lack of support at 800x600 is annoying. The BBC has been my example site of why you should still design for 800 for a while now!! Particularly to those clients who have large widescreen monitors! Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] BBC in Beta
Seems like someone is listening! The color buttons is gone and a few other things changed. Paul McCann skrev: Hi Everyone, Just a quick note to let you know I was the one who posted the BBC link, but I have nothing to do with the BBC whatsoever. So if you want to send private feedback to the BBC, please do it direct to their webteam, or whoever is responsible for testing the Beta, whom unfortunately I dont have any contact details for. I just came across the Beta site from one of my clients and I thought I would share it here with you guys to get some conversation going. Maybe someone can invite the BBC to join the conversation. As I said, this is nothing to do with me, I dont work for the BBC so please dont direct comments about the new site to me. As for the site. I agree the colour changing is a bit annoying but for the design, it may be dated and not leading the pack and done to death in a lot of IT websites etc, but I think for the general public who this site is aimed at most will like it. I actually quite like that look and dont see it around as often as some of you seem to do. But time will tell. Apart from that I too agree the font sizing and the lack of support at 800x600 is annoying. The BBC has been my example site of why you should still design for 800 for a while now!! Particularly to those clients who have large widescreen monitors! Paul *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] BBC in Beta
Seems like someone is listening! The color buttons is gone No they're not. Unless you're referring to something different. -- Tyssen Design www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] BBC in Beta
A few things I noticed (being ultra-critical perhaps at this stage): First three links on the page are invisible skip links that don't show up, even on focus, plus there's another hidden link to accesskey definitions after the accessibility help link. On the separate modules, it's initially confusing that clicking on the expand/contract triangle and clicking on the actual heading itself has different effects. I'd have expected clicking on a heading to trigger the expand/contract, not take me to that particular section on the site (maybe it's just me). The design itself is not very subtle...the gradients are just a bit too heavy and give a bumpy appearance. The gradient in the chunky footer makes the text towards the bottom of the box (e.g. Healthy living, parenting...) a bit hard to read, as the contrast is far too low. Search box has no LABEL, but a title attribute of searchfield. They could have wrapped the text in the legend of the fieldset as an actual label, perhaps legendlabel for=searchfieldSearch/label/legend or just have a hidden (positioned off-screen) label for it (maybe with search terms as label text). Just navigating by keyboard and hitting Reset homepage brings up the lightbox-style confirm/cancel dialog. However, the focus isn't set to this box, to tabbing simply cycles through the *whole* page's links (behind the dimmed fog of war) before finally getting focus on the actual confirm/cancel buttons. Speaking of buttons, confirm/cancel, reset homepage, save changes, cancel, edit etc should possibly be actual BUTTON elements, not regular A links (for the purists concerned with the distinction between links going somewhere and buttons performing an action). Hitting the edit buttons when a module is collapsed has no apparent effect, in which case they should remain hidden until expanded. Patrick H. Lauke Web Editor Enterprise Development University of Salford Room 113, Faraday House Salford, Greater Manchester M5 4WT UK T +44 (0) 161 295 4779 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.salford.ac.uk A GREATER MANCHESTER UNIVERSITY *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] BBC in Beta
Heads up, the BBC has a new site in Beta. http://www.bbc.co.uk/home/beta At my preferred setting for IE (accessibility mode at text-size largest) IE 7 cannot display the page and IE 6 is not a pretty picture. Best, ~dL -- http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] BBC in Beta
Well they are on my computer! (we're talking about the 4 colored buttons that changed the colors of the page... right?) John Faulds skrev: Seems like someone is listening! The color buttons is gone No they're not. Unless you're referring to something different. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] BBC in Beta
It's not working at all via iPhone, strangely. - Matthew Sent from my iPhone On 18 Dec 2007, at 18:31, Kim Kruse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well they are on my computer! (we're talking about the 4 colored buttons that changed the colors of the page... right?) John Faulds skrev: Seems like someone is listening! The color buttons is gone No they're not. Unless you're referring to something different. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] BBC in Beta
On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:30:21 +, Paul McCann wrote: Heads up, the BBC has a new site in Beta. http://www.bbc.co.uk/home/beta Thoughts/praise/comments :) It looks like they are doing some (unsuccessful?) browser sniffing. I get a mostly black and white page in Opera, and a brightly colored page in Firefox. Both IE6 and IE7 say that the page cannot be displayed. There's some vertical overflow of boxes in Opera, which displays text 25% larger than Firefox due to my OS setting of 120 DPI. Don't laugh at the sunny weaather icons. Sunny really looks like that in the UK. ;) Cordially, David -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] BBC in Beta
I have mixed feelings over this site, on first appearance I like the look esp the header and the colour changes Though I don't think its appropriate for the BBC, especially when alot of it seems to be a carbon copy of other sites. I hope there will be an option to theme the site 'classic' - so that it looks like the bbc site that I know and enjoy as is. its too clunky and makes poor use of space, whilst being wider it does not make effective use of the area. A different approach would enable text resizing as for that sunny image. Judging by today, greyer much much greyer. A proper english summer On 18/12/2007, Matthew Pennell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's not working at all via iPhone, strangely. - Matthew Sent from my iPhone On 18 Dec 2007, at 18:31, Kim Kruse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well they are on my computer! (we're talking about the 4 colored buttons that changed the colors of the page... right?) John Faulds skrev: Seems like someone is listening! The color buttons is gone No they're not. Unless you're referring to something different. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] BBC in Beta
I pull up the site fine in IE. Opera looks ok with default settings. Text is a little high for the Read More link in blogs in Firefox Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 David Hucklesby wrote: On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:30:21 +, Paul McCann wrote: Heads up, the BBC has a new site in Beta. http://www.bbc.co.uk/home/beta Thoughts/praise/comments :) It looks like they are doing some (unsuccessful?) browser sniffing. I get a mostly black and white page in Opera, and a brightly colored page in Firefox. Both IE6 and IE7 say that the page cannot be displayed. There's some vertical overflow of boxes in Opera, which displays text 25% larger than Firefox due to my OS setting of 120 DPI. Don't laugh at the sunny weaather icons. Sunny really looks like that in the UK. ;) Cordially, David -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] BBC in Beta
Yeah, that's right. I can still see them and they still change the colour of the page. On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:31:49 +1000, Kim Kruse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well they are on my computer! (we're talking about the 4 colored buttons that changed the colors of the page... right?) John Faulds skrev: snip No they're not. Unless you're referring to something different. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Tyssen Design www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] BBC in Beta
Firefox: Yesterday it defaulted to lollipop green (*puke*), with coloured buttons. Today it's defaulting to black and white with NO coloured buttons; that whole div is just not there today. IE6: Defaults to black and white WITH coloured buttons. However the items showing and news stories are completely different to what I see in Firefox. Opera: Defaults to black and white WITH coloured buttons. The items and news are the same as in IE. So .. the default colour is different each time you go there ..? .. and depending on what browser you use, you get different boxes and different news .. ? .. and the div with the coloured buttons may or may not show up .. ? ... (I thought maybe AdBlock was interfering, but no, disabling it didn't affect anything.) I'm confused. libby On 12/19/07, John Faulds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, that's right. I can still see them and they still change the colour of the page. On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:31:49 +1000, Kim Kruse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well they are on my computer! (we're talking about the 4 colored buttons that changed the colors of the page... right?) John Faulds skrev: snip No they're not. Unless you're referring to something different. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Tyssen Design www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] BBC in Beta
David Hucklesby wrote: I get a mostly black and white page in Opera, and a brightly colored page in Firefox. I'm seeing black and white in firefox. odd. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] BBC in Beta
I don't know what's causing it, probably caching, but some of us in this office now have a new, almost completely different version of the BBC page, with no annoying colour changes, and some of us don't. Shift-reload? Randomise the URL? http://www.bbc.co.uk/home/beta/?noseriouslypleasereload might do it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Faulds Sent: Wednesday, 19 December 2007 9:12 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] BBC in Beta Yeah, that's right. I can still see them and they still change the colour of the page. On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 04:31:49 +1000, Kim Kruse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well they are on my computer! (we're talking about the 4 colored buttons that changed the colors of the page... right?) John Faulds skrev: snip No they're not. Unless you're referring to something different. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Tyssen Design www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** == The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments == *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] BBC in Beta
Heads up, the BBC has a new site in Beta. http://www.bbc.co.uk/home/beta Thoughts/praise/comments :) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] BBC in Beta
On 2007/12/17 15:30 (GMT) Paul McCann apparently typed: Heads up, the BBC has a new site in Beta. http://www.bbc.co.uk/home/beta Thoughts/praise/comments :) I guess they discovered 800x600 is an anachronism, so made it wider. Still objects are sized in px, so with fonts forced big enough to read at high resolution, line lengths are too short and/or overlap and/or extend beyond containers. CSS hard to evaluate, with no line feeds in the whole file. It has display options, but that needs work. And, it's another Clagnut type, suffering the usual effects when viewed with user stylesheet or minimum font size employed in Gecko. http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/SS/Clagnut/eonsSS Overall, better, but, worse than good. -- Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. John Adams Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] BBC in Beta
Felix Miata wrote: On 2007/12/17 15:30 (GMT) Paul McCann apparently typed: Heads up, the BBC has a new site in Beta. http://www.bbc.co.uk/home/beta Thoughts/praise/comments :) snip usual font stuff /snip Overall, better, but, worse than good. Oh come on, let's not be so blinkered that we can't appreciate really good work in most areas! I think it's a great homepage. - The information architecture looks good. Directory options at the bottom are a nice feature. - The Customise homepage feature looks easy and understandable - I love how they've borrowed the NetVibes things of allowing people to move content blocks around the page - I'm not a huge fan of the colours, but it's not overwhelming and easy to orientate yourself on the page - It's an interesting pared-down no-frills visual look - The markup looks reasonably good - Seems to work with javascript disabled Well done I say. And streets ahead of comparable websites in NZ (and I'd wager elsewhere in the world): http://tvnz.co.nz/ http://www.tv3.co.nz/ http://www.sky.co.nz/ Although not Radio NZ which is great: http://www.radionz.co.nz/ Mike *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] BBC in Beta
Oh come on, let's not be so blinkered that we can't appreciate really good work in most areas! Felix isn't the only one who has a number of issues with the new design and for entirely different reasons - http://www.markboulton.co.uk/journal/comments/bbc_homepage_redesign/ I'd have to agree with Mark that the changing of the pages' colour scheme when you click on the coloured rectangles under the main picture is just weird. What's it meant to signify? -- Tyssen Design www.tyssendesign.com.au Ph: (07) 3300 3303 Mb: 0405 678 590 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] BBC in Beta
Mike Brown wrote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/home/beta Thoughts/praise/comments :) Overall, better, but, worse than good. Oh come on, let's not be so blinkered that we can't appreciate really good work in most areas! Since the example comes out like this... http://www.gunlaug.no/tos/alien/bbc-beta.png ...in IE7, Firefox and Opera - and a bit worse in IE6, when subjected to regular, built-in, user-options, it has to be classified as less than good at this stage. The example is clearly in need of more testing and work if it is to pass BBC's own My web My Way advice... http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/index.shtml ...somewhat intact, and the weakness doesn't go away by snipping comments about it. regards Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] BBC in Beta
Positives: - Theres some clever use of Javascript in there that enables some interesting user interface elements. - In case you missed it, you can drag and drop parts of the page, similar to Yahoo and Googles efforts - although they could have gone some way to making it a bit more obvious. - Another feature I really like is the ability to increase/decrease the number of news stories with the +/- buttons next to the country name. SImilar with the Sports widget. - Customizable interfaces may seem a little gimmicky, but for pages that you visit on a daily basis, they allow people to reduce the 'noise' and increase exposure to content that interests them. - Code is semantic ,gone are the tables for layout, and there are tons of hidden headings and other goodies for screen readers. - Like the use of bold headings and overall larger font sizes compared to previous versions. Negatives: - Messy CSS and Javascript first in source order. - Bit follow the leader (see John Faulds post for link in this thread), but frankly why shouldn't the BBC move with the times. - Agree with Mark Boulton on the Weather icons, the Sunny one is just shocking! - The colour change thing is okay, but I think the colours are a little too light in spots (especially with white text on top). Perhaps its just my LCD... Karl *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
