RE: [WSG] Back to the Future
Yes, I did think of that but it's actually an ASP.Net website so really needs to be done in Visual Studio. I'm having great fun, as you can imagine. Things are going to get even more interesting as I'm just about to install Windows 3.11 on a virtual machine to test this stuff *for real*. I have tissues ready and waiting in case I cry. Chris (30 years old today, but feeling at least twice that age) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alastair Campbell Sent: 13 June 2007 19:34 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Back to the Future Chris Taylor wrote: Thanks for the input everyone, it looks like old-school tables with inline styles is the way to go, unfortunately. You may be right, if it were me, I'd install an old copy of Frontpage or dreamweaver and use that... matching the era of the tool with the era of the browser will probably make it less work for you. Cheers, -Alastair *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Back to the Future
On 14 Jun 2007, at 10:01:43, Chris Taylor wrote: Things are going to get even more interesting as I'm just about to install Windows 3.11 on a virtual machine to test this stuff *for real*. I have tissues ready and waiting in case I cry. If you plan on using JavaScript then you'll be delighted to hear that it has its own set of additional bugs (both crashing and just weird) in 16 bit Windows (3.x). You may find some of these old netscape.devs- javascript newsgroup posts useful: http://groups.google.com/group/netscape.devs-javascript/search? group=netscape.devs-javascriptq=16+bitqt_g=Search+this+group Good luck, Nick. -- Nick Fitzsimons http://www.nickfitz.co.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Back to the Future
Nope, it's genuine. This is an extranet system that financial services companies will be connecting to. Did you know that Norwich Union has thousands of users still in Win3.1 and NN4.03 (so I've been told)? And some of the other insurance and mortgage companies aren't much better. Then there are many who are using thin clients (Citrix), and a few with more modern systems. It's a real hotch-potch. doesn't surpise me at all - a friend told me about a year ago that a bank he was working for was only just replacing a whole lot of win3.1 machines. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Back to the Future
Chris Taylor wrote: Thanks for the input everyone, it looks like old-school tables with inline styles is the way to go, unfortunately. You may be right, if it were me, I'd install an old copy of Frontpage or dreamweaver and use that... matching the era of the tool with the era of the browser will probably make it less work for you. Cheers, -Alastair *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Back to the Future
Hi all, I've been asked to write a website that MUST work in Netscape 4.03 and IE 3 for Windows 3.1. When you've stopped laughing I'm afraid I have to say I'm serious, and there's no chance at all that the people connecting to the site will upgrade. So, any tips to do this without reverting all the way back to 1996 tables and spacer gifs? Or am I doomed to non-standards hell? Cheers, and wish me luck. Chris *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Back to the Future
On 12 Jun 2007, at 17:04, Chris Taylor wrote: I've been asked to write a website that MUST work in Netscape 4.03 and IE 3 for Windows 3.1. When you've stopped laughing I'm afraid I have to say I'm serious, and there's no chance at all that the people connecting to the site will upgrade. So, any tips to do this without reverting all the way back to 1996 tables and spacer gifs? Or am I doomed to non-standards hell? Does 'work' really mean 'look the same'? -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Back to the Future
Chris If this is Internet and not in intranet, I suggest that you design for the real customers; that is people who visit the site and not those who own it. If this user group are still for some strange reason, bound by running windows 3.1 etc.. do it the old way, take the money and don't put it on your CV I wish you all the very best on this project... -- Regards - Rob Raising web standards : http://ele.vation.co.uk Linking in with others: http://linkedin.com/in/robkirton On 12/06/07, Chris Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I've been asked to write a website that MUST work in Netscape 4.03 and IE 3 for Windows 3.1. When you've stopped laughing I'm afraid I have to say I'm serious, and there's no chance at all that the people connecting to the site will upgrade. So, any tips to do this without reverting all the way back to 1996 tables and spacer gifs? Or am I doomed to non-standards hell? Cheers, and wish me luck. Chris *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Back to the Future
Well, there isn't a look yet, as I haven't designed it. It needs to be as simple as possible, so there's no really advanced stuff required and the design will reflect that. It's an intranet system, so only available to users with valid logins, hence it needs to work in a wide spread of browsers. My initial tests show that NN4.03 handles some CSS (float, background, border, font etc) but not some important things (list-style, margin and padding on lists). Is there a source for information about CSS support on old browsers? Thanks Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Dorward Sent: 12 June 2007 17:09 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Back to the Future On 12 Jun 2007, at 17:04, Chris Taylor wrote: I've been asked to write a website that MUST work in Netscape 4.03 and IE 3 for Windows 3.1. When you've stopped laughing I'm afraid I have to say I'm serious, and there's no chance at all that the people connecting to the site will upgrade. So, any tips to do this without reverting all the way back to 1996 tables and spacer gifs? Or am I doomed to non-standards hell? Does 'work' really mean 'look the same'? -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Back to the Future
As much as I would hate the idea, go old school completely. Forget CSS and use very basic HTML. Since you don't need anything fancy, don't use anything fancy. They won't know div from a table anyway because they need it work. Good Luck. Really it should be very easy! On 6/12/07, Chris Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, there isn't a look yet, as I haven't designed it. It needs to be as simple as possible, so there's no really advanced stuff required and the design will reflect that. It's an intranet system, so only available to users with valid logins, hence it needs to work in a wide spread of browsers. My initial tests show that NN4.03 handles some CSS (float, background, border, font etc) but not some important things (list-style, margin and padding on lists). Is there a source for information about CSS support on old browsers? Thanks Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Dorward Sent: 12 June 2007 17:09 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Back to the Future On 12 Jun 2007, at 17:04, Chris Taylor wrote: I've been asked to write a website that MUST work in Netscape 4.03 and IE 3 for Windows 3.1. When you've stopped laughing I'm afraid I have to say I'm serious, and there's no chance at all that the people connecting to the site will upgrade. So, any tips to do this without reverting all the way back to 1996 tables and spacer gifs? Or am I doomed to non-standards hell? Does 'work' really mean 'look the same'? -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk/ http://blog.dorward.me.uk/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Frederick - www.eyeriskdesign.com • Great artwork for all styles www.onlythesales.com • The online place to start for SAVING MONEY. www.bedlamedia.com • Design services for PRINT and WEB. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Back to the Future
Hi Chris, I actually junked my set of Windows 3.1 floppy disks the other day and wondered if anyone is still using it... Info on CSS support at: http://www.w3schools.com/css/css_reference.asp Good luck!! Nick Chris Taylor wrote: Well, there isn't a look yet, as I haven't designed it. It needs to be as simple as possible, so there's no really advanced stuff required and the design will reflect that. It's an intranet system, so only available to users with valid logins, hence it needs to work in a wide spread of browsers. My initial tests show that NN4.03 handles some CSS (float, background, border, font etc) but not some important things (list-style, margin and padding on lists). Is there a source for information about CSS support on old browsers? Thanks Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Dorward Sent: 12 June 2007 17:09 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Back to the Future On 12 Jun 2007, at 17:04, Chris Taylor wrote: I've been asked to write a website that MUST work in Netscape 4.03 and IE 3 for Windows 3.1. When you've stopped laughing I'm afraid I have to say I'm serious, and there's no chance at all that the people connecting to the site will upgrade. So, any tips to do this without reverting all the way back to 1996 tables and spacer gifs? Or am I doomed to non-standards hell? Does 'work' really mean 'look the same'? -- Nick Roper partner logical elements *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Back to the Future
Chris Taylor wrote: [] My initial tests show that NN4.03 handles some CSS (float, background, border, font etc) but not some important things (list-style, margin and padding on lists). Is there a source for information about CSS support on old browsers? Nick Roper wrote: Info on CSS support at: http://www.w3schools.com/css/css_reference.asp If you're forced to work old-school, then you might find some old, otherwise outdated information websites of value. For instance, I would combine the W3CSchools info with old info from the CSS Pointers Group: http://www.dev-archive.net/articles/pointers/bugs-ie.html and http://www.dev-archive.net/articles/pointers/bugs-nn.html and also from RichInStyle.com: http://www.richinstyle.com/bugs/netscape4.html The CSS Pointers Group info was especially useful in the early 2000's in understanding how to deal with the many failures of different browsers to meet the W3C CSS standards. Phil. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Back to the Future
Chris Taylor skrev: Hi all, I've been asked to write a website that MUST work in Netscape 4.03 and Remember to put modern CSS in a separate, imported stylesheet file, as NN4 can crash when encountering CSS that it does not know how to interpret. /Anders *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Back to the Future
I've been asked to write a website that MUST work in Netscape 4.03 and IE 3 for Windows 3.1. When you've stopped laughing I'm afraid I have to say I'm serious, and there's no chance at all that the people connecting to the site will upgrade. I'm quite curious about this - do you genuinely have a client with a large user base on archaic machines, or is this a whim of the CEO who won't upgrade scenario? Anyway, the next question is does it need to work as in be functional or does it have to work as in look the same? If it just needs to be functional, use import filters and give raw content to the old browsers. But I'm guessing this isn't an option or you probably wouldn't be asking :) So, any tips to do this without reverting all the way back to 1996 tables and spacer gifs? Or am I doomed to non-standards hell? From memory NN4 could handle some basic CSS but I wouldn't attempt to do a modern float or fixed layout with it. Your best bet is probably to use a CSS/table hybrid - use the table to set columns etc then CSS for colours, etc. IE3... sorry I simply can't recall. It's probably a little less capable than NN4. Cheers, and wish me luck. Good luck, and charge appropriately - meaning charge extra ;) -Ben -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Back to the Future
My initial tests show that NN4.03 handles some CSS (float, background, border, font etc) but not some important things (list-style, margin and padding on lists). Is there a source for information about CSS support on old browsers? if you are going to use css with netscape 4 I suggest you do lots of testing ... it's buggy as hell on that browser... and errors often cause the content not to be displayed at all! - I'd probably go for just basic html for netscape 4... In fact it was Nestcape 4 that scared me off from using CSS for a few years! *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
