Re: [WSG] Valid Flash state of play
for another point of view here's a link tothe Flash gurus at the Flashnewbie list http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/ they're extremely knowledgeable when it comes to Flash ByteDreams - Original Message - From: David McKinnon To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 7:20 PM Subject: [WSG] Valid Flash state of play Does anyone know if anyone has managed to produce a valid and reliable wayto embed Flash objects yet?I'm noting Nick Gleitzman's reply to Seona Bellamy yesterday [RE: [WSG] Cansomeone reproduce these issues for me please?] suggesting Flash Satay at AList Apart.My understanding is that the safest way is still to use Macromedia's invaliddefault method:http://www.macromedia.com/support/flash/ts/documents/tn4150.htmlThis is taking into account Jeffrey Zeldman's comments in Designing With WebStandards about Drew McLellan's Flash Satay methodhttp://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay/And noting Mark Lynch's comments on Flashvars using either the Satay meithodor Ian Hixie'shttp://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1081798064count=1Anyone know any better?David McKinnonwww.alucida.com**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledgeTo be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help**
RE: [WSG] Valid Flash state of play
Sorry Neerav, That works for me in IE6/Win and Safari 1.0.3, but not IE5.2/Mac, Opera 7.5(Win and Mac), Firefox 0.9.3 (Win and Mac) or Camino 0.8. The A List Apart article and Ian Hix's solution both aim at solving problems with the object element. However, I understand from Designing With Web Standards and the discussion of the A List Apart Flash Satay article (http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay/discuss/) that some browsers IE/Win 5, 5.5 and 6, Konquerer/Linux and Mozilla/Linux sometimes fail to correctly handle the object element. Apparently it works most of the time but sometimes people just get a blank space where the Flash should be. Hixie's solution seems to be the most elegant, although Mark Lynch casts some doubt on this here http://markl.f2o.org/experiments/flashvars/ Any further developments? David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Neerav Sent: Wednesday, 18 August 2004 10:46 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Valid Flash state of play The following is valid XHTML transitional, and seems to work fine in the browsers I've checked (IE6, Mozilla, Opera) object codebase=http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.ca b#version=6,0,0,0 type=application/x-shockwave-flash data=http://www.example.com/flash.swf; width=640 height=480 param name=movie value=http://www.example.com/flash.swf; / /object -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy Mobile: +61 (0)403 8000 27 http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav David McKinnon wrote: Does anyone know if anyone has managed to produce a valid and reliable way to embed Flash objects yet? I'm noting Nick Gleitzman's reply to Seona Bellamy yesterday [RE: [WSG] Can someone reproduce these issues for me please?] suggesting Flash Satay at A List Apart. My understanding is that the safest way is still to use Macromedia's invalid default method: http://www.macromedia.com/support/flash/ts/documents/tn4150.html This is taking into account Jeffrey Zeldman's comments in Designing With Web Standards about Drew McLellan's Flash Satay method http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay/ And noting Mark Lynch's comments on Flashvars using either the Satay meithod or Ian Hixie's http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1081798064count=1 Anyone know any better? David McKinnon www.alucida.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Valid Flash state of play
David thats a bit bizare because on my computer (Win 2K) it works on: Opera Version 7.52Build 3834 Firefox 0.9 IE 6 SP1 Guess I'll have to go back to the invalid MM method. David McKinnon wrote: Sorry Neerav, That works for me in IE6/Win and Safari 1.0.3, but not IE5.2/Mac, Opera 7.5(Win and Mac), Firefox 0.9.3 (Win and Mac) or Camino 0.8. The A List Apart article and Ian Hix's solution both aim at solving problems with the object element. However, I understand from Designing With Web Standards and the discussion of the A List Apart Flash Satay article (http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay/discuss/) that some browsers IE/Win 5, 5.5 and 6, Konquerer/Linux and Mozilla/Linux sometimes fail to correctly handle the object element. Apparently it works most of the time but sometimes people just get a blank space where the Flash should be. Hixie's solution seems to be the most elegant, although Mark Lynch casts some doubt on this here http://markl.f2o.org/experiments/flashvars/ Any further developments? David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Neerav Sent: Wednesday, 18 August 2004 10:46 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Valid Flash state of play The following is valid XHTML transitional, and seems to work fine in the browsers I've checked (IE6, Mozilla, Opera) object codebase=http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.ca b#version=6,0,0,0 type=application/x-shockwave-flash data=http://www.example.com/flash.swf; width=640 height=480 param name=movie value=http://www.example.com/flash.swf; / /object -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy Mobile: +61 (0)403 8000 27 http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav David McKinnon wrote: Does anyone know if anyone has managed to produce a valid and reliable way to embed Flash objects yet? I'm noting Nick Gleitzman's reply to Seona Bellamy yesterday [RE: [WSG] Can someone reproduce these issues for me please?] suggesting Flash Satay at A List Apart. My understanding is that the safest way is still to use Macromedia's invalid default method: http://www.macromedia.com/support/flash/ts/documents/tn4150.html This is taking into account Jeffrey Zeldman's comments in Designing With Web Standards about Drew McLellan's Flash Satay method http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay/ And noting Mark Lynch's comments on Flashvars using either the Satay meithod or Ian Hixie's http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1081798064count=1 Anyone know any better? David McKinnon www.alucida.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Valid Flash state of play
Hi I have a feeling that the inconsistencies in valid xhtml markup for embedding (object) Flash were from general badness in the ActiveX used by Flash Player (somebody mentioned a corrupt OCX file on the Flash Satay discussion at ALA) and Internet Explorer having it's own version of the object tag. There are a few links in the archive of this list worth checking out. The version i have at webqs.com works for all the browsers and players I could lay my hands on. Cheers James David McKinnon wrote: Sorry Neerav, That works for me in IE6/Win and Safari 1.0.3, but not IE5.2/Mac, Opera 7.5(Win and Mac), Firefox 0.9.3 (Win and Mac) or Camino 0.8. The A List Apart article and Ian Hix's solution both aim at solving problems with the object element. However, I understand from Designing With Web Standards and the discussion of the A List Apart Flash Satay article (http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay/discuss/) that some browsers IE/Win 5, 5.5 and 6, Konquerer/Linux and Mozilla/Linux sometimes fail to correctly handle the object element. Apparently it works most of the time but sometimes people just get a blank space where the Flash should be. Hixie's solution seems to be the most elegant, although Mark Lynch casts some doubt on this here http://markl.f2o.org/experiments/flashvars/ Any further developments? David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Neerav Sent: Wednesday, 18 August 2004 10:46 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Valid Flash state of play The following is valid XHTML transitional, and seems to work fine in the browsers I've checked (IE6, Mozilla, Opera) object codebase=http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.ca b#version=6,0,0,0 type=application/x-shockwave-flash data=http://www.example.com/flash.swf; width=640 height=480 param name=movie value=http://www.example.com/flash.swf; / /object -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy Mobile: +61 (0)403 8000 27 http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav David McKinnon wrote: Does anyone know if anyone has managed to produce a valid and reliable way to embed Flash objects yet? I'm noting Nick Gleitzman's reply to Seona Bellamy yesterday [RE: [WSG] Can someone reproduce these issues for me please?] suggesting Flash Satay at A List Apart. My understanding is that the safest way is still to use Macromedia's invalid default method: http://www.macromedia.com/support/flash/ts/documents/tn4150.html This is taking into account Jeffrey Zeldman's comments in Designing With Web Standards about Drew McLellan's Flash Satay method http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay/ And noting Mark Lynch's comments on Flashvars using either the Satay meithod or Ian Hixie's http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1081798064count=1 Anyone know any better? David McKinnon www.alucida.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Valid Flash state of play
Interesting, I posted a query (a Flash forum) about the Flash Satay method not always displaying on Opera. Sometimes it required a page refresh in order to display. I was told that it was a problem with my copy of the browser. Which didn't ring true at the time either. I learnt to live with the effect as they were only single-page fun sites. http://www.2kool2.com/2kool2/ http://www.2kool2.com/senuik/ I'd be very interested in any solutions anyone comes up with. mike 2k:)2 marqueeblink mike foskett /marquee/blink http://www.webSemantics.co.uk [almost complete] -Original Message- From: James Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 18 August 2004 08:57 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Valid Flash state of play Hi I have a feeling that the inconsistencies in valid xhtml markup for embedding (object) Flash were from general badness in the ActiveX used by Flash Player (somebody mentioned a corrupt OCX file on the Flash Satay discussion at ALA) and Internet Explorer having it's own version of the object tag. There are a few links in the archive of this list worth checking out. The version i have at webqs.com works for all the browsers and players I could lay my hands on. Cheers James David McKinnon wrote: Sorry Neerav, That works for me in IE6/Win and Safari 1.0.3, but not IE5.2/Mac, Opera 7.5(Win and Mac), Firefox 0.9.3 (Win and Mac) or Camino 0.8. The A List Apart article and Ian Hix's solution both aim at solving problems with the object element. However, I understand from Designing With Web Standards and the discussion of the A List Apart Flash Satay article (http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay/discuss/) that some browsers IE/Win 5, 5.5 and 6, Konquerer/Linux and Mozilla/Linux sometimes fail to correctly handle the object element. Apparently it works most of the time but sometimes people just get a blank space where the Flash should be. Hixie's solution seems to be the most elegant, although Mark Lynch casts some doubt on this here http://markl.f2o.org/experiments/flashvars/ Any further developments? David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Neerav Sent: Wednesday, 18 August 2004 10:46 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Valid Flash state of play The following is valid XHTML transitional, and seems to work fine in the browsers I've checked (IE6, Mozilla, Opera) object codebase=http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swfl ash.ca b#version=6,0,0,0 type=application/x-shockwave-flash data=http://www.example.com/flash.swf; width=640 height=480 param name=movie value=http://www.example.com/flash.swf; / /object -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy Mobile: +61 (0)403 8000 27 http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav David McKinnon wrote: Does anyone know if anyone has managed to produce a valid and reliable way to embed Flash objects yet? I'm noting Nick Gleitzman's reply to Seona Bellamy yesterday [RE: [WSG] Can someone reproduce these issues for me please?] suggesting Flash Satay at A List Apart. My understanding is that the safest way is still to use Macromedia's invalid default method: http://www.macromedia.com/support/flash/ts/documents/tn4150.html This is taking into account Jeffrey Zeldman's comments in Designing With Web Standards about Drew McLellan's Flash Satay method http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay/ And noting Mark Lynch's comments on Flashvars using either the Satay meithod or Ian Hixie's http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1081798064count=1 Anyone know any better? David McKinnon www.alucida.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org
Re: [WSG] Valid Flash state of play
Hi Try writing the necessary, but bloated flash code dynamically from a linked JS file as a function. Then call the function within the document. Safe, reliable and valid. C On Tuesday, August 17, 2004, at 05:20 PM, David McKinnon wrote: Does anyone know if anyone has managed to produce a valid and reliable way to embed Flash objects yet? I'm noting Nick Gleitzman's reply to Seona Bellamy yesterday [RE: [WSG] Can someone reproduce these issues for me please?] suggesting Flash Satay at A List Apart. My understanding is that the safest way is still to use Macromedia's invalid default method: http://www.macromedia.com/support/flash/ts/documents/tn4150.html This is taking into account Jeffrey Zeldman's comments in Designing With Web Standards about Drew McLellan's Flash Satay method http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay/ And noting Mark Lynch's comments on Flashvars using either the Satay meithod or Ian Hixie's http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1081798064count=1 Anyone know any better? David McKinnon www.alucida.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Respectfully, Chris http://ckimedia.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Valid Flash state of play
Try writing the necessary, but bloated flash code dynamically from a linked JS file as a function. Then call the function within the document. Safe, reliable and valid. ...and it doesn't work without JavaScript enabled. Also, in reality that's just tricking the validator and still supplying invalid code to the browser. I'd avoid that method if I were you. Personally, I like the version using IE conditional comments. It does require some repetition but its solid. Far from perfect though I have to say. I've done a load of experimentation on this subject and as yet have got nowhere. It really is a massive pain in the a*se... Im not sure of the link to the article explaining the conditional IE comments and haven't got time to root it out at the moment but Im sure one of friendly list dudes will know it... Cheers, -- Dan Webb Web Developer and Internet Consultant www.danwebb.net 07957 234544 39 Roseberry Gardens, London, N8 8SH ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Valid Flash state of play
Hi, This is for embedding quicktime, but it may put you on to something. http://realdev1.realise.com/rossa/rendertest/quicktime.html And flash doesn't work with plug-in's and this doesn't work, without that.. Six in one hand half-dozen in the other. The aforementioned method may be slight of hand, but I've yet to encounter a situation where it has failed. Several large FLASH/XHTML/CSS firms use this method, so until I can find a concrete solution, I'll have to go with it. Thanks for your insight, it did inspire me to keep looking for a more tangible solution. W On Wednesday, August 18, 2004, at 07:47 AM, Dan Webb wrote: Try writing the necessary, but bloated flash code dynamically from a linked JS file as a function. Then call the function within the document. Safe, reliable and valid. ...and it doesn't work without JavaScript enabled. Also, in reality that's just tricking the validator and still supplying invalid code to the browser. I'd avoid that method if I were you. Personally, I like the version using IE conditional comments. It does require some repetition but its solid. Far from perfect though I have to say. I've done a load of experimentation on this subject and as yet have got nowhere. It really is a massive pain in the a*se... Im not sure of the link to the article explaining the conditional IE comments and haven't got time to root it out at the moment but Im sure one of friendly list dudes will know it... Cheers, -- Dan Webb Web Developer and Internet Consultant www.danwebb.net 07957 234544 39 Roseberry Gardens, London, N8 8SH ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Respectfully, Chris http://ckimedia.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Valid Flash state of play
Does anyone know if anyone has managed to produce a valid and reliable way to embed Flash objects yet? I'm noting Nick Gleitzman's reply to Seona Bellamy yesterday [RE: [WSG] Can someone reproduce these issues for me please?] suggesting Flash Satay at A List Apart. My understanding is that the safest way is still to use Macromedia's invalid default method: http://www.macromedia.com/support/flash/ts/documents/tn4150.html This is taking into account Jeffrey Zeldman's comments in Designing With Web Standards about Drew McLellan's Flash Satay method http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay/ And noting Mark Lynch's comments on Flashvars using either the Satay meithod or Ian Hixie's http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1081798064count=1 Anyone know any better? David McKinnon www.alucida.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Valid Flash state of play
The following is valid XHTML transitional, and seems to work fine in the browsers I've checked (IE6, Mozilla, Opera) object codebase=http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,0,0; type=application/x-shockwave-flash data=http://www.example.com/flash.swf; width=640 height=480 param name=movie value=http://www.example.com/flash.swf; / /object -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy Mobile: +61 (0)403 8000 27 http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav David McKinnon wrote: Does anyone know if anyone has managed to produce a valid and reliable way to embed Flash objects yet? I'm noting Nick Gleitzman's reply to Seona Bellamy yesterday [RE: [WSG] Can someone reproduce these issues for me please?] suggesting Flash Satay at A List Apart. My understanding is that the safest way is still to use Macromedia's invalid default method: http://www.macromedia.com/support/flash/ts/documents/tn4150.html This is taking into account Jeffrey Zeldman's comments in Designing With Web Standards about Drew McLellan's Flash Satay method http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay/ And noting Mark Lynch's comments on Flashvars using either the Satay meithod or Ian Hixie's http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1081798064count=1 Anyone know any better? David McKinnon www.alucida.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
