Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver CS3
On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 10:44 PM, Ben Dodson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you're using a mac then I must highly recommend TextMate (http://macromates.com/) as the best text-editor I've ever used. It has full syntax highlighting but it's real power comes with snippets, code blocks you can program yourself. I'll second the TextMate goodness. It's all I've used since late 2004 (and I haven't had to pay for a single upgrade since then), and the awesomeness of bundles means that as stuff like jquery became trendy, bundles were released to work with it. So, no waiting for some vendor to 'build in' tools. - Raena -- Raena Jackson Armitage www.raena.net *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver CS3
It has full syntax highlighting but it's real power comes with snippets, code blocks you can program yourself. Dreamweaver also has a Snippets panel with built in snippets and you can easily create your own in whatever category you wish and store them there, whether it be CSS snippets, javascript or server language code snippets. Beyond that, you can create behaviors and commands for javascript code and server behaviors for programming code, either packaging them as an MXP for portability or leave as behaviors for local use. Many users don't realize, but it's extendible out the wazoo. Nancy *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Dreamweaver CS3
I've been thinking about buying the new version of Photoshop and Illustrator, as i just purchased a new dual core iMac. Currently i use BBEdit but im thinking about switching to Dreamweaver as i might aswell purchase the creative suite. Is the new dreamweaver any good for us developers? This may not seem related to web standards but i feel it does because back when i used dreamweaver - it was the days when it bloated out your code and caused friction for many developers. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver CS3
I think its very handy even though i hardcode most stuff. Its good for organizing your work flow, with document tabs and what not. The code is pretty clean these days and theres a good built in validator. I think even object embedding (.flvs and what not) is pretty unobtrusive. Sorry if thats off topic. James Jeffery wrote: I've been thinking about buying the new version of Photoshop and Illustrator, as i just purchased a new dual core iMac. Currently i use BBEdit but im thinking about switching to Dreamweaver as i might aswell purchase the creative suite. Is the new dreamweaver any good for us developers? This may not seem related to web standards but i feel it does because back when i used dreamweaver - it was the days when it bloated out your code and caused friction for many developers. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver CS3
Hi James, It may also be worth looking at Microsoft's Visual Studio 2008 Web Designer Express Edition - it's completely free (It has nothing to do with the Expression series of tools). It has IDE Source Code Editors for (X)HTML, XML, CSS, and JavaScript, etc. You can also download the limited MSDN Library that accompanies it, also free of charge. There is no proprietary code injection, and you can set a markup specification for cursory validation as you write. http://www.microsoft.com/express/vwd/ Apologies if considered off-topic. Kind regards, Frank On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 1:19 PM, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been thinking about buying the new version of Photoshop and Illustrator, as i just purchased a new dual core iMac. Currently i use BBEdit but im thinking about switching to Dreamweaver as i might aswell purchase the creative suite. Is the new dreamweaver any good for us developers? This may not seem related to web standards but i feel it does because back when i used dreamweaver - it was the days when it bloated out your code and caused friction for many developers. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Frank M. Palinkas *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Dreamweaver CS3
I use Dreamweaver in code view. However, it makes it easy to convert a semantic marked-up word document into valid code, is easy to organize code, and I am used to the key commands. That probably describes dozens of editors for different people. If it comes with a package, you're in good shape. If not, you may want to consider cheaper options Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kevin mcmonagle Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 1:48 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver CS3 I think its very handy even though i hardcode most stuff. Its good for organizing your work flow, with document tabs and what not. The code is pretty clean these days and theres a good built in validator. I think even object embedding (.flvs and what not) is pretty unobtrusive. Sorry if thats off topic. James Jeffery wrote: I've been thinking about buying the new version of Photoshop and Illustrator, as i just purchased a new dual core iMac. Currently i use BBEdit but im thinking about switching to Dreamweaver as i might aswell purchase the creative suite. Is the new dreamweaver any good for us developers? This may not seem related to web standards but i feel it does because back when i used dreamweaver - it was the days when it bloated out your code and caused friction for many developers. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver CS3
If you're using a mac then I must highly recommend TextMate (
http://macromates.com/) as the best text-editor I've ever used. It has full
syntax highlighting but it's real power comes with snippets, code blocks
you can program yourself. For example I can type if and press tab and it
will automatically change to if ($var) { } whilst pressing tab again
highlights to each variable or block allowing you to overwrite it. You can
write your own which makes it incredibly powerful and there are hundreds
built in for all sorts of different programming languages!
I've been using it for around a year and a half now and have never had any
problems - it's also very cheap in comparison to other editors. If you're
using Windows, then someone wrote a port of TextMate called E-Texteditor
which can be got from http://e-texteditor.com/ - again very good (not quite
as good as TextMate) and allows you to use the snippets and bundles from
TextMate which makes it good in a development environment with multiple
OS's.
Ben
--
e: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
w: http://bendodson.com/
On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 1:11 PM, Ted Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I use Dreamweaver in code view. However, it makes it easy to convert a
semantic marked-up word document into valid code, is easy to organize
code,
and I am used to the key commands.
That probably describes dozens of editors for different people.
If it comes with a package, you're in good shape. If not, you may want to
consider cheaper options
Ted
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of kevin mcmonagle
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 1:48 PM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver CS3
I think its very handy even though i hardcode most stuff.
Its good for organizing your work flow, with document tabs and what not.
The code is pretty clean these days and theres a good built in validator.
I think even object embedding (.flvs and what not) is pretty unobtrusive.
Sorry if thats off topic.
James Jeffery wrote:
I've been thinking about buying the new version of Photoshop and
Illustrator, as i just purchased a new dual core iMac. Currently i use
BBEdit but im thinking about switching to Dreamweaver as i might
aswell purchase the creative suite. Is the new dreamweaver any good
for us developers?
This may not seem related to web standards but i feel it does because
back when i used dreamweaver - it was the days when it bloated out
your code and caused friction for many developers.
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Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver CS3
On Apr 4, 2008, at 7:19 AM, James Jeffery wrote: I've been thinking about buying the new version of Photoshop and Illustrator, as i just purchased a new dual core iMac. Currently i use BBEdit but im thinking about switching to Dreamweaver as i might aswell purchase the creative suite. Is the new dreamweaver any good for us developers? This may not seem related to web standards but i feel it does because back when i used dreamweaver - it was the days when it bloated out your code and caused friction for many developers. I used dreamweaver for a little bit until my development turned more towards programming in PHP, I didn't like how dreamweaver showed the PHP (If at all actually...) so now I use XCode which is part of the developer tools for Macs and is free. It has syntax highlighting for just about every kind of language out there and works great for me. -- Jason Pruim Raoset Inc. Technology Manager MQC Specialist 3251 132nd ave Holland, MI, 49424-9337 www.raoset.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver CS3
I use dreamweaver for my (x)html coding. Even though I primarily do hand coding but like it to see what my visual looks like. When I get to PHP I switch to Crimson Editor. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 Jason Pruim wrote: On Apr 4, 2008, at 7:19 AM, James Jeffery wrote: I've been thinking about buying the new version of Photoshop and Illustrator, as i just purchased a new dual core iMac. Currently i use BBEdit but im thinking about switching to Dreamweaver as i might aswell purchase the creative suite. Is the new dreamweaver any good for us developers? This may not seem related to web standards but i feel it does because back when i used dreamweaver - it was the days when it bloated out your code and caused friction for many developers. I used dreamweaver for a little bit until my development turned more towards programming in PHP, I didn't like how dreamweaver showed the PHP (If at all actually...) so now I use XCode which is part of the developer tools for Macs and is free. It has syntax highlighting for just about every kind of language out there and works great for me. -- Jason Pruim Raoset Inc. Technology Manager MQC Specialist 3251 132nd ave Holland, MI, 49424-9337 www.raoset.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver CS3
James, why not take advantage of the free 30 trial of Dreamweaver? - Original Message - From: James Jeffery To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 12:19 PM Subject: [WSG] Dreamweaver CS3 I've been thinking about buying the new version of Photoshop and Illustrator, as i just purchased a new dual core iMac. Currently i use BBEdit but im thinking about switching to Dreamweaver as i might aswell purchase the creative suite. Is the new dreamweaver any good for us developers? This may not seem related to web standards but i feel it does because back when i used dreamweaver - it was the days when it bloated out your code and caused friction for many developers. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver CS3
Hi James. I am new to the developing world. I do have dreamweaver cs3 and think it is absolutely great and would recommend it to anyone. Regards Fi On 4/4/08, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been thinking about buying the new version of Photoshop and Illustrator, as i just purchased a new dual core iMac. Currently i use BBEdit but im thinking about switching to Dreamweaver as i might aswell purchase the creative suite. Is the new dreamweaver any good for us developers? This may not seem related to web standards but i feel it does because back when i used dreamweaver - it was the days when it bloated out your code and caused friction for many developers. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver CS3
One thing to realize is dreamweaver does often use non web standard rules for creating HTML. While it can help you create code it is not a substitution for knowing code. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultant http://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 fiona herbert wrote: Hi James. I am new to the developing world. I do have dreamweaver cs3 and think it is absolutely great and would recommend it to anyone. Regards Fi On 4/4/08, *James Jeffery* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been thinking about buying the new version of Photoshop and Illustrator, as i just purchased a new dual core iMac. Currently i use BBEdit but im thinking about switching to Dreamweaver as i might aswell purchase the creative suite. Is the new dreamweaver any good for us developers? This may not seem related to web standards but i feel it does because back when i used dreamweaver - it was the days when it bloated out your code and caused friction for many developers. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver CS3
H james... If you want to code visually ..dreamweaver cs3 is a good option.It has a very good css editor also.I use both dreamweaver and microsoft visual studio for my coding and I feel both are good. but always check manually for web standards :-) I suggest you to download the trial versions and have a try on both products I am sure you are gonna love both .. regards navii On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 10:52 PM, Michael Horowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One thing to realize is dreamweaver does often use non web standard rules for creating HTML. While it can help you create code it is not a substitution for knowing code. Michael Horowitz Your Computer Consultanthttp://yourcomputerconsultant.com 561-394-9079 fiona herbert wrote: Hi James. I am new to the developing world. I do have dreamweaver cs3 and think it is absolutely great and would recommend it to anyone. Regards Fi On 4/4/08, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been thinking about buying the new version of Photoshop and Illustrator, as i just purchased a new dual core iMac. Currently i use BBEdit but im thinking about switching to Dreamweaver as i might aswell purchase the creative suite. Is the new dreamweaver any good for us developers? This may not seem related to web standards but i feel it does because back when i used dreamweaver - it was the days when it bloated out your code and caused friction for many developers. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- navii - thanks and regards Naveen Bhaskar Menon *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver Extensions
kevin.erickson wrote: I am trying to get advice/recommendations for Dreamweaver extensions that will help with accessibility plus any others that make for must-have's. Any particular aspect of accessibility? There are some extensions that aid in automated validation of local pages, though I never used them myself (and of course, automated validation is not enough...simply the equivalent of a spellcheck, which doesn't guarantee anything other than your words are spelt correctly). Haven't got any urls off-hand for those, but they should be easy to hunt down. Not a must-have as such, but if you find yourself using certain more esoteric elements on a regular basis in WYSIWYG view, this little extension of mine may come in handy http://www.splintered.co.uk/experiments/88/ P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver Extensions
http://www.divahtml.com/products/scripts_dreamweaver_extensions.php. Those look great! Thanks! Free validator: http://validator.w3.org/ emichael Erickson, Kevin (DOE) wrote: You mean right in Dreamweaver? Sure. I will use that. Do you recommend any other free or not? I checked out http://www.divahtml.com/products/scripts_dreamweaver_extensions.php. Those look great! Kevin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of E Michael Brandt Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 2:50 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver Extensions Erickson, Kevin (DOE) wrote: I am looking for extensions that aid in detecting errors on pages, missed alt tags, etc. Why not just Validate the page? E. Michael Brandt www.divahtml.com www.divahtml.com/products/scripts_dreamweaver_extensions.php Standards-compliant scripts and Dreamweaver Extensions www.valleywebdesigns.com/vwd_Vdw.asp JustSo PictureWindow JustSo PhotoAlbum, et alia -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- E. Michael Brandt www.divahtml.com www.divahtml.com/products/scripts_dreamweaver_extensions.php Standards-compliant scripts and Dreamweaver Extensions www.valleywebdesigns.com/vwd_Vdw.asp JustSo PictureWindow JustSo PhotoAlbum, et alia -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Dreamweaver Extensions
You mean right in Dreamweaver? Sure. I will use that. Do you recommend any other free or not? I checked out http://www.divahtml.com/products/scripts_dreamweaver_extensions.php. Those look great! Kevin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of E Michael Brandt Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 2:50 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver Extensions Erickson, Kevin (DOE) wrote: I am looking for extensions that aid in detecting errors on pages, missed alt tags, etc. Why not just Validate the page? E. Michael Brandt www.divahtml.com www.divahtml.com/products/scripts_dreamweaver_extensions.php Standards-compliant scripts and Dreamweaver Extensions www.valleywebdesigns.com/vwd_Vdw.asp JustSo PictureWindow JustSo PhotoAlbum, et alia -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver Extensions
Erickson, Kevin (DOE) wrote: I am looking for extensions that aid in detecting errors on pages, missed alt tags, etc. Why not just Validate the page? E. Michael Brandt www.divahtml.com www.divahtml.com/products/scripts_dreamweaver_extensions.php Standards-compliant scripts and Dreamweaver Extensions www.valleywebdesigns.com/vwd_Vdw.asp JustSo PictureWindow JustSo PhotoAlbum, et alia -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Dreamweaver Extensions
Hello, I am trying to get advice/recommendations for Dreamweaver extensions that will help with accessibility plus any others that make for must-have's. Thank you, Kevin Erickson VDOE Web *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Dreamweaver Extensions
Thanks Patrick. No particular aspect of accessibility. I am looking for extensions that aid in detecting errors on pages, missed alt tags, etc. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 1:31 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver Extensions kevin.erickson wrote: I am trying to get advice/recommendations for Dreamweaver extensions that will help with accessibility plus any others that make for must-have's. Any particular aspect of accessibility? There are some extensions that aid in automated validation of local pages, though I never used them myself (and of course, automated validation is not enough...simply the equivalent of a spellcheck, which doesn't guarantee anything other than your words are spelt correctly). Haven't got any urls off-hand for those, but they should be easy to hunt down. Not a must-have as such, but if you find yourself using certain more esoteric elements on a regular basis in WYSIWYG view, this little extension of mine may come in handy http://www.splintered.co.uk/experiments/88/ P -- Patrick H. Lauke __ re*dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com __ Co-lead, Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ __ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Dreamweaver templates and CSS
Hello, I had this problem when using MX 04 when we went to CSS controlled layouts. There is a patch you can get from Macromedia that fixes it up fairly well - still a bit jumbled but quite usable. It is called something similar to dwmx_updater61. Good luck, Kay Murphey -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joshua Street Sent: Saturday, 7 May 2005 4:43 PM To: Web Standards Group mailing list Subject: [WSG] Dreamweaver templates and CSS Hi, We're developing a website from a layout a client purchased from some online layout service (of course, .PSD and table-based HTML layout only), and they were going to manage their content using Dreamweaver template files... but when we turned the layout to something CSS-based it went and made a horrible mess of the layout in Dreamweaver, to the point where it's not only unlike the appearance of the site in the browser, but completely uneditable. http://www.joahua.com/blog/2005/05/07/wysiwtf has screenshots in Firefox and Dreamweaver respectively... Has anyone else seen this kind of mess before? Aside from browser testing Dreamweaver as though it were another user agent, is there anything that can be easily done to fix it? We're probably just going to use a content management system instead, but it's a bit frustrating... Kind Regards, Joshua Street Website: http://www.base10solutions.com.au/ Phone: (02) 9898-0060 Fax: (02) 8572-6021 Mobile: 0425 808 469 Multimedia Development Agency E-mails and any attachments sent from base10solutions are to be regarded as confidential. Please do not distribute or publish any of the contents of this e-mail without the sender's consent. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to the e-mail, and then delete the message without making copies or using it in any way. Although base10solutions takes precautions to ensure that e-mail sent from our accounts are free of viruses, we encourage recipients to undertake their own virus scan on each e-mail before opening, as base10solutions accepts no responsibility for loss or damage caused by the contents of this e-mail. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Security Statement The information contained in this electronic mail message is privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. Confidentiality and legal privilege attached to this communication are not waived or lost by reason of mistaken delivery to you. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. Disclaimer Any views expressed in this communication are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the views of NSW Department of Community Services. Except as required by law, NSW Department of Community Services does not represent, warrant and/or guarantee that the integrity of this communication has been maintained nor that the communication is free of error, virus, interception, inference or interference. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Dreamweaver templates and CSS
Hi, We're developing a website from a layout a client purchased from some online layout service (of course, .PSD and table-based HTML layout only), and they were going to manage their content using Dreamweaver template files... but when we turned the layout to something CSS-based it went and made a horrible mess of the layout in Dreamweaver, to the point where it's not only unlike the appearance of the site in the browser, but completely uneditable. http://www.joahua.com/blog/2005/05/07/wysiwtf has screenshots in Firefox and Dreamweaver respectively... Has anyone else seen this kind of mess before? Aside from browser testing Dreamweaver as though it were another user agent, is there anything that can be easily done to fix it? We're probably just going to use a content management system instead, but it's a bit frustrating... Kind Regards, Joshua Street Website: http://www.base10solutions.com.au/ Phone: (02) 9898-0060 Fax: (02) 8572-6021 Mobile: 0425 808 469 Multimedia Development Agency E-mails and any attachments sent from base10solutions are to be regarded as confidential. Please do not distribute or publish any of the contents of this e-mail without the senders consent. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to the e-mail, and then delete the message without making copies or using it in any way. Although base10solutions takes precautions to ensure that e-mail sent from our accounts are free of viruses, we encourage recipients to undertake their own virus scan on each e-mail before opening, as base10solutions accepts no responsibility for loss or damage caused by the contents of this e-mail. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver templates and CSS
Yep, Dreamweaver MX04's design view shows a lot of css layout incorrectly. (especially floats). Sometimes it gets pretty close but normally doesnt. I've always wondered why they dont just make the design view render like that of a good browser. e.g firefox. Has anyone else seen this kind of mess before? Aside from browser testing Dreamweaver as though it were another user agent, is there anything that can be easily done to fix it? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver templates and CSS
Hi Joshua, Why not ask this question on the MacroMedia news groups. I'm 100% sure they have the right answer for you (I'm not sure but it might have to do with design time style sheets... or something like that :) Kim Joshua Street wrote: Hi, We're developing a website from a layout a client purchased from some online layout service (of course, .PSD and table-based HTML layout only), and they were going to manage their content using Dreamweaver template files... but when we turned the layout to something CSS-based it went and made a horrible mess of the layout in Dreamweaver, to the point where it's not only unlike the appearance of the site in the browser, but completely uneditable. http://www.joahua.com/blog/2005/05/07/wysiwtf has screenshots in Firefox and Dreamweaver respectively... Has anyone else seen this kind of mess before? Aside from browser testing Dreamweaver as though it were another user agent, is there anything that can be easily done to fix it? We're probably just going to use a content management system instead, but it's a bit frustrating... Kind Regards, Joshua Street Website: http://www.base10solutions.com.au/ Phone: (02) 9898-0060 Fax: (02) 8572-6021 Mobile: 0425 808 469 Multimedia Development Agency E-mails and any attachments sent from base10solutions are to be regarded as confidential. Please do not distribute or publish any of the contents of this e-mail without the senders consent. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to the e-mail, and then delete the message without making copies or using it in any way. Although base10solutions takes precautions to ensure that e-mail sent from our accounts are free of viruses, we encourage recipients to undertake their own virus scan on each e-mail before opening, as base10solutions accepts no responsibility for loss or damage caused by the contents of this e-mail. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver templates and CSS
Hi Joshua, Which version of Dreamweaver are you using? I use MX 2004 on a mac (which probably has different quirks to the win version) and am not having the problems you describe, though I've only been using CSS-based layouts for a few months (and am heavily using templates). The problem I am having, however, is trying to select text in an editable DIV region. In the templates, I'll write short messages to remind me or others as to what content goes where in each column, eg main content goes here, main photo goes here, etc. But when I create a new page from the template and then try to select the text main content goes here, I can't do it in Design View. I have to go into Code View. When there are a few lines of text in the editable DIV region, then it's no problem. I never had this problem with templates using table-based layouts. Regards, Hope Stewart On 7/5/05 4:42 PM, Joshua Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're developing a website from a layout a client purchased from some online layout service (of course, .PSD and table-based HTML layout only), and they were going to manage their content using Dreamweaver template files... but when we turned the layout to something CSS-based it went and made a horrible mess of the layout in Dreamweaver, to the point where it's not only unlike the appearance of the site in the browser, but completely uneditable. http://www.joahua.com/blog/2005/05/07/wysiwtf has screenshots in Firefox and Dreamweaver respectively... Has anyone else seen this kind of mess before? Aside from browser testing Dreamweaver as though it were another user agent, is there anything that can be easily done to fix it? We're probably just going to use a content management system instead, but it's a bit frustrating... ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver templates and CSS - THREAD CLOSED
As was hinted at by Kim, this is off topic. THREAD CLOSED The mail list does not cover - Non-Web Standards related issues and support - Detailed software support such as using a browser, installing a server, installing any tools etc. http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm If you have a comment - please email Joshua directly. If you have issues with this thread being closed, please email info@webboy.net Thanks Russ Which version of Dreamweaver are you using? I use MX 2004 on a mac (which probably has different quirks to the win version) and am not having the problems you describe, though I've only been using CSS-based layouts for a few months (and am heavily using templates). ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Dreamweaver : was [ Standards Macromedia Contribute]
Thanks James, I think the answer to my original question is yes, but, use it but with caution / watch out for bugs. The site itself will actually be populated by myself pre handover to the client, they will then just be using contribute to make updates and alterations to the pages, and if I set it all up at there end correctly hopefully we shouldn't have any issues. I shall post my finding on this list if and when they are relevant, Incidentally for anyone wondering, the site in question: http://www.sammyco.co.uk/acttrwebpre/company.php Is replacing their existing site: http://www.actiontransporttheatre.co.uk/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of James Ellis Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 02:55 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver : was [ Standards Macromedia Contribute] Hi all This is a good discussion, lets try and keep it on how to apply the mentioned software to create standards compliant content rather than a rundown of its various features and comparison to other software. Cheers James admin On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:41:42 +1100, Natalie Buxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is probably getting OT... The DW editor isn't much like homesite at all anymore. Many more advanced features. It is worth downloading the free demo and having a look using CODE VIEW. Lots of built in things I like - the Oreilly's pocket guides, the inbuilt validation controls and the ability to add file type extensions via the xml file. On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:41:52 +1300, Terrence Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: isn't the DWMX editor essentially homesite anyway? I'm a mac user so I've never seen or used homesite. Terrence Wood. On 2004-12-16 2:39 PM, heretic wrote: Realistically... we probably could have stuck with HomeSite :) -- You know you've achieved perfection in design, not when you have nothing more to add, but when you have nothing more to take away. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver : was [ Standards Macromedia Contribute]
Post below: Michael Wilson wrote: I use Dreamweaver MX 2004 and, although I'm not certain what settings I may have changed since the initial install, I don't recall making any major adjustments to the preferences since that time. I believe I ticked on Make document XHTML compliant and set the use CSS shorthand for: options, but that's about it. I also edited the default HTML document so that all new HTML pages include the XHTML Strict Doctype. With the addition of these few adjustments (which really shouldn't impact Dreamweaver's ability to produce valid markup), I haven't noticed a problem with Dreamweaver's output. Also important to note is that the accessible templates that come with DWMX2K4 are table based. But I only use DWMX2K4 in Code-view anyway, I keep a copy of Firefox open on the document on my secondary monitor, its not exactly a live preview, but the 2 second delay from changing focus and pressing F5 is close enough :) Dreamweaver does, however, still fail on the object tag, especilly for the Flash template. Whilst you can change this (look for the flash inserter JS inside your \Configuration\ directory), as it employs Microsoft's Class-IDs (and hence... Microsoft's interpretation of the semantics of the object tag). There's an article on AListApart on Flash (URI: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay/) HTH -David ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver : was [ Standards Macromedia Contribute]
Hi, Michael Wilson wrote: What would you consider to be the key standards and accessibility settings for Dreamweaver that some of us might be overlooking? The settings I recommend to people at work Accessibility tab: Enable all of the Show Attributes when Inserting options Code Format tab. Set Default Tag Case to lowercase Set Default Attribute Case to lowercase... Set Centering to Use DIV tag Code Rewriting tab. Enable... Fix invalidly nested and unclosed tags Encode , , , and in attributed values using Encode special characters in URLs using % New Document tab. Set the Make Document XHTML Compliant option. I also give instructions on how to change the default HTML file extension from .htm to .html but that's more about our naming convention than anything else. Obviously many people on this list will already have done this; but we have a lot of users with varying skill levels creating web pages, so we try to get DW to prompt them for extra info. We have support material and training to tell them what it all means... of course, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them pay attention in accessibility class :) h -- --- http://cheshrkat.blogspot.com/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver : was [ Standards Macromedia Contribute]
Dreamweaver does, however, still fail on the object tag, especilly for the Flash template. Hi David Have your tried exporting a compliant template from Flash itself? Not sure if you can do this in DW? I did some experiments in this last year http://www.webqs.com/experiment.php?id=15 Cheers James ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver : was [ Standards Macromedia Contribute]
isn't the DWMX editor essentially homesite anyway? I'm a mac user so I've never seen or used homesite. Terrence Wood. On 2004-12-16 2:39 PM, heretic wrote: Realistically... we probably could have stuck with HomeSite :) -- You know you've achieved perfection in design, not when you have nothing more to add, but when you have nothing more to take away. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver : was [ Standards Macromedia Contribute]
Hi all This is a good discussion, lets try and keep it on how to apply the mentioned software to create standards compliant content rather than a rundown of its various features and comparison to other software. Cheers James admin On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:41:42 +1100, Natalie Buxton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is probably getting OT... The DW editor isn't much like homesite at all anymore. Many more advanced features. It is worth downloading the free demo and having a look using CODE VIEW. Lots of built in things I like - the Oreilly's pocket guides, the inbuilt validation controls and the ability to add file type extensions via the xml file. On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:41:52 +1300, Terrence Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: isn't the DWMX editor essentially homesite anyway? I'm a mac user so I've never seen or used homesite. Terrence Wood. On 2004-12-16 2:39 PM, heretic wrote: Realistically... we probably could have stuck with HomeSite :) -- You know you've achieved perfection in design, not when you have nothing more to add, but when you have nothing more to take away. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Dreamweaver : was [ Standards Macromedia Contribute]
Hi Mario and all, - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 7:45 PM Subject: Re: [WSG] Standards Macromedia Contribute Also, I must admit I'm growing rather weary of all the negative remarks about Dreamweaver. From my humble perspective I use Dreamweaver MX 2004 and find it to be an extremely robust and well crafted authoring tool. Dreamweaver produces fairly good XHTML, and has a feature to Clean Up XHTML, and coupled with HomeSite's code sweeper you can produce clean, valid markup. All in addition to using the W3C's Code Validator, and being able to apply changes in Dreamweaver's code view I just don't see the down side. I must say I agree. As with all tools, you find out how best to use them and what (if any) downsides there are. I must say I rarely use design view with the 'new standards' kind of work (it' s pretty hopeless at displaying divs properly for layout) but the code editor is superb. Not only that, the 'convert for version 3 browsers' facility is excellent, if you find you need support for an ancient browser. Just my 2p's worth. Bob McClelland, Cornwall (U.K.) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver : was [ Standards Macromedia Contribute]
Hi all (hmm, this would be a de-lurk..), Also, I must admit I'm growing rather weary of all the negative remarks about Dreamweaver. From my humble perspective I use Dreamweaver MX 2004 I must say I agree. As with all tools, you find out how best to use them and what (if any) downsides there are. I must say I rarely use design view with [snip] Not sure if this has been mentioned already, but we have to remember that DW comes with most of its key standards/accessibility options *switched off by default*. So a misleading message can go out to the less savvy people out there - they may think they're creating standards-compliant/accessible pages because they're using DW MX2004, when actually they'd have to change a large number of preferences for this to become the truth. Part of the idea of a WYSIWYG is to create a certain output without the user having to be an expert. You still have to be an expert to create valid pages with DW; and as you note don't bother trying to use design view on a div-based design. Realistically... we probably could have stuck with HomeSite :) All opinion, obviously. h -- --- http://cheshrkat.blogspot.com/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dreamweaver : was [ Standards Macromedia Contribute]
This is probably getting OT... The DW editor isn't much like homesite at all anymore. Many more advanced features. It is worth downloading the free demo and having a look using CODE VIEW. Lots of built in things I like - the Oreilly's pocket guides, the inbuilt validation controls and the ability to add file type extensions via the xml file. On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:41:52 +1300, Terrence Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: isn't the DWMX editor essentially homesite anyway? I'm a mac user so I've never seen or used homesite. Terrence Wood. On 2004-12-16 2:39 PM, heretic wrote: Realistically... we probably could have stuck with HomeSite :) -- You know you've achieved perfection in design, not when you have nothing more to add, but when you have nothing more to take away. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] DreamWeaver Template Left (or Right) Halo Nav in DW MX2004
Dave, You need some tranquilizers man. You did miss my point. Macromedia sells a product that purports to work with IE and most other browsers. Macromedia DreamWeaver MX has a defective template. Simple as that. A minor problem that could have been avoided by a bit more careful checking before release. It was not glaringly apparent until I put it into a screen resolution that allowed it to be exposed. Thanks to two fellows on this newsgroup for their guidance and simple fixes for the problem. If they can do it - so could Macromedia. IE on any platform is not my favorite browser. Nor is Safari or Opera or Netscape or Firefoxetc! All have their problems and shortcomings. I use all of them to test my products before release. According to the browser statistics in a recent posting to this group: IE owns something like 92% of the browser market (presuming, of course, that those stats are truly reflective of the user community). I do not hate a company simply because they have captured the majority of the market. I DO dislike Microsoft's inability to adapt quickly to industry standards that are emerging around them. I do NOT rant at the folks who use the products that are often pre-installed on their computers. MOST Internet users fall into this category. They are victims of Microsoft's success at marketing. Do not blame the victim! An American story comes to mind of a girl named Pollyanna - who always thought positively - perhaps naively so. You seem to imply that I am somewhat pollyanish in my belief that MacroMedia would do a little more proofing before they deliver a product to market. Macromedia did not do this and are correctly blamed for the problem with THEIR template. IE and its lack of standards compliance is an extenuating factor. I doubt you design websites only for compliance to the 'best' browsers on the market without regard for the 1,000 kilogram ape looming over you. Thanks for the article link - nothing new there - but it's always good to see someone trying to tell the already converted what they want to hear. Will Jensen Moscow, Russia On Nov 17, 2004, at 10:11 AM, csslist wrote: ok maybe its just the way u said this but its gotta be the dumbest thing i have ever read [quote]I imagined MacroMedia would not turn out a template that did not work in all browsers on all platforms.[/quote] i mean come on if it makes u feel better to pass some blame then blame who it is that at fault and gee wouldnt u guess who it is? micro$oft imagine that the quote should be more like this I imagined Micro$oft would not turn out such crap that did not work right and doesnt follow the recommended validation standards but then again if they built something right then all the worlds crime would go away, everything would be green and fertile, everyone would be beautiful, there would be free super slurpee's for the everyone and there would be nothing but world peace. and we all know all that aint about to happen btw, a desect quick read http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3513_7-5570803-1.html?tag=cnetfd.ld -- Original Message -- From: Will Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:35:29 +0300 I am running IE 6 on Win 2K Adv Server. This is an interesting wrinkle. I imagined MacroMedia would not turn out a template that did not work in all browsers on all platforms. I used a 1024x768 screen resolution and if I resize the IE6 window horizontally the capsule story section drops down below the PageNav section. It may not be obvious unless you play about a bit with the size of the IE window. I have a 17 screen and the difference is very large in the placement of the text.
Re: [WSG] DreamWeaver Template Left (or Right) Halo Nav in DW MX2004
lol well i took the comment probably different then you meant it but microcrap chooses to avoid the main stream in hopes that everyone does things their way or pay the price. (can we say Monopoly?) now when MM made those templates im sure they worked just fine especially in IE and the probable fact is that M$ changes what they were doing so it messed up those templates. I seem to recall there being some pretty big issues between IE5 IE6, and then there are their fixes which usually mess everything else up. bottom line is that they arent gunna change until we make them change i just didnt think MM deserved the comment u gave them. And my point was just to say that blame should just go to where it belongs. and sure i dont like M$ and its because of crap like this but if u can come up with a solution out of the box and work in all browsers on all platforms you will be a rich man :) -- Original Message -- From: Will Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:14:40 +0300 Dave, You need some tranquilizers man. You did miss my point. Macromedia sells a product that purports to work with IE and most other browsers. Macromedia DreamWeaver MX has a defective template. Simple as that. A minor problem that could have been avoided by a bit more careful checking before release. It was not glaringly apparent until I put it into a screen resolution that allowed it to be exposed. Thanks to two fellows on this newsgroup for their guidance and simple fixes for the problem. If they can do it - so could Macromedia. IE on any platform is not my favorite browser. Nor is Safari or Opera or Netscape or Firefoxetc! All have their problems and shortcomings. I use all of them to test my products before release. According to the browser statistics in a recent posting to this group: IE owns something like 92% of the browser market (presuming, of course, that those stats are truly reflective of the user community). I do not hate a company simply because they have captured the majority of the market. I DO dislike Microsoft's inability to adapt quickly to industry standards that are emerging around them. I do NOT rant at the folks who use the products that are often pre-installed on their computers. MOST Internet users fall into this category. They are victims of Microsoft's success at marketing. Do not blame the victim! An American story comes to mind of a girl named Pollyanna - who always thought positively - perhaps naively so. You seem to imply that I am somewhat pollyanish in my belief that MacroMedia would do a little more proofing before they deliver a product to market. Macromedia did not do this and are correctly blamed for the problem with THEIR template. IE and its lack of standards compliance is an extenuating factor. I doubt you design websites only for compliance to the 'best' browsers on the market without regard for the 1,000 kilogram ape looming over you. Thanks for the article link - nothing new there - but it's always good to see someone trying to tell the already converted what they want to hear. Will Jensen Moscow, Russia On Nov 17, 2004, at 10:11 AM, csslist wrote: ok maybe its just the way u said this but its gotta be the dumbest thing i have ever read [quote]I imagined MacroMedia would not turn out a template that did not work in all browsers on all platforms.[/quote] i mean come on if it makes u feel better to pass some blame then blame who it is that at fault and gee wouldnt u guess who it is? micro$oft imagine that the quote should be more like this I imagined Micro$oft would not turn out such crap that did not work right and doesnt follow the recommended validation standards but then again if they built something right then all the worlds crime would go away, everything would be green and fertile, everyone would be beautiful, there would be free super slurpee's for the everyone and there would be nothing but world peace. and we all know all that aint about to happen btw, a desect quick read http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3513_7-5570803-1.html?tag=cnetfd.ld -- Original Message -- From: Will Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:35:29 +0300 I am running IE 6 on Win 2K Adv Server. This is an interesting wrinkle. I imagined MacroMedia would not turn out a template that did not work in all browsers on all platforms. I used a 1024x768 screen resolution and if I resize the IE6 window horizontally the capsule story section drops down below the PageNav section. It may not be obvious unless you play about a bit with the size of the IE window. I have a 17 screen and the difference is very large in the placement of the text. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See
Re: [WSG] DreamWeaver Template Left (or Right) Halo Nav in DW MX2004
ok maybe its just the way u said this but its gotta be the dumbest thing i have ever read [quote]I imagined MacroMedia would not turn out a template that did not work in all browsers on all platforms.[/quote] i mean come on if it makes u feel better to pass some blame then blame who it is that at fault and gee wouldnt u guess who it is? micro$oft imagine that the quote should be more like this I imagined Micro$oft would not turn out such crap that did not work right and doesnt follow the recommended validation standards but then again if they built something right then all the worlds crime would go away, everything would be green and fertile, everyone would be beautiful, there would be free super slurpee's for the everyone and there would be nothing but world peace. and we all know all that aint about to happen btw, a desect quick read http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-3513_7-5570803-1.html?tag=cnetfd.ld -- Original Message -- From: Will Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:35:29 +0300 I am running IE 6 on Win 2K Adv Server. This is an interesting wrinkle. I imagined MacroMedia would not turn out a template that did not work in all browsers on all platforms. I used a 1024x768 screen resolution and if I resize the IE6 window horizontally the capsule story section drops down below the PageNav section. It may not be obvious unless you play about a bit with the size of the IE window. I have a 17 screen and the difference is very large in the placement of the text. Will ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] DreamWeaver Template Left (or Right) Halo Nav in DW MX2004
I want to use the DW, Page Design CSS - Left Halo Nav template. It works well in all browsers, except it does not properly render in IE 6 on a WinTel PC. The problem seems to be with the Capsule Story element which is part of a table. In IE 6 Win the Capsule Story table begins after the bottom edge of the PageNav section has ended. In screen resolutions over 1024x760 this causes a large gap to appear in the content section between the div class story and the table'd Capsule Story. Any recommended work-arounds that will validate in XHTML 1.0 Strict!? I did not send files since this is not recommended for the list. I do not have a website where I can place it for this test. If someone wants to tackle this offline then I can send HTML and CSS files separately. Thanks, Will inline: SigThkLong200.jpg William H. Jensen, Jr. 67 Leninski Prospect Apartment #174, 5th Floor Moscow, Russia, 117296 Tel: (7)(095) 137-6546 [EMAIL PROTECTED] US address for mail forwarding to Russia is: William H. Jensen c/o IPS, MB 951 Suite 572 666 Fifth Ave. New York, NY, 10103
Re: [WSG] DreamWeaver Template Left (or Right) Halo Nav in DW MX2004
Hi Will I have DW MX and setup the template here and could not duplicate the issue on IE6/WINXP. Which IE/WIN combo are you running? Natalie On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:40:19 +0300, Will Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want to use the DW, Page Design CSS - Left Halo Nav template. It works well in all browsers, except it does not properly render in IE 6 on a WinTel PC. The problem seems to be with the Capsule Story element which is part of a table. In IE 6 Win the Capsule Story table begins after the bottom edge of the PageNav section has ended. In screen resolutions over 1024x760 this causes a large gap to appear in the content section between the div class story and the table'd Capsule Story. -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] DreamWeaver Template Left (or Right) Halo Nav in DW MX2004
Hallo Will, The problem is the 100% of the table width... In the html-file you may change div class="story" table width="100%" etc. etc. the table width to less than 100%, eg. table width="90%" Than it works ... best greetings johannes - Original Message - From: Will Jensen To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 5:40 PM Subject: [WSG] DreamWeaver Template Left (or Right) Halo Nav in DW MX2004 I want to use the DW, Page Design CSS - Left Halo Nav template.It works well in all browsers, except it does not properly render in IE 6 on a WinTel PC.The problem seems to be with the Capsule Story element which is part of a table.In IE 6 Win the Capsule Story table begins after the bottom edge of the PageNav section has ended.In screen resolutions over 1024x760 this causes a large gap to appear in the content section between the div class "story" and the table'd Capsule Story.Any recommended work-arounds that will validate in XHTML 1.0 Strict!?I did not send files since this is not recommended for the list. I do not have a website where I can place it for this test. If someone wants to tackle this offline then I can send HTML and CSS files separately.Thanks,Will William H. Jensen, Jr.67 Leninski ProspectApartment #174, 5th FloorMoscow, Russia, 117296Tel: (7)(095) 137-6546[EMAIL PROTECTED]US address for mail forwarding to Russia is:William H. Jensenc/o IPS, MB 951Suite 572666 Fifth Ave.New York, NY, 10103
Re: [WSG] DreamWeaver Template Left (or Right) Halo Nav in DW MX2004
I am running IE 6 on Win 2K Adv Server. This is an interesting wrinkle. I imagined MacroMedia would not turn out a template that did not work in all browsers on all platforms. I used a 1024x768 screen resolution and if I resize the IE6 window horizontally the capsule story section drops down below the PageNav section. It may not be obvious unless you play about a bit with the size of the IE window. I have a 17 screen and the difference is very large in the placement of the text. Will inline: SigThkLong200.jpg William H. Jensen, Jr. 67 Leninski Prospect Apartment #174, 5th Floor Moscow, Russia, 117296 Tel: (7)(095) 137-6546 [EMAIL PROTECTED] US address for mail forwarding to Russia is: William H. Jensen c/o IPS, MB 951 Suite 572 666 Fifth Ave. New York, NY, 10103 On Nov 16, 2004, at 1:19 AM, Natalie Buxton wrote: Hi Will I have DW MX and setup the template here and could not duplicate the issue on IE6/WINXP. Which IE/WIN combo are you running? Natalie On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:40:19 +0300, Will Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I want to use the DW, Page Design CSS - Left Halo Nav template. It works well in all browsers, except it does not properly render in IE 6 on a WinTel PC. The problem seems to be with the Capsule Story element which is part of a table. In IE 6 Win the Capsule Story table begins after the bottom edge of the PageNav section has ended. In screen resolutions over 1024x760 this causes a large gap to appear in the content section between the div class story and the table'd Capsule Story. -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] DreamWeaver Template Left (or Right) Halo Nav in DW MX2004
Works Perfectly - Thanks loads! I have one more Question on this template. I want to center the global nav menu and the sub-global nav menu. I can do this with text-align center in the CSS for the global and sub-global nav sections in the CSS. It works fine in all browsers except IE 5 on my Mac OS X. The menu flickers and the sub-global scrambles - you think you are on the second choice in the global menu, but the sub-global brings out sub-global links for the third choice on the global menu.. This is a minor problem since IE 5 on Mac is dead but still used by some folks. Will inline: SigThkLong200.jpg William H. Jensen, Jr. 67 Leninski Prospect Apartment #174, 5th Floor Moscow, Russia, 117296 Tel: (7)(095) 137-6546 [EMAIL PROTECTED] US address for mail forwarding to Russia is: William H. Jensen c/o IPS, MB 951 Suite 572 666 Fifth Ave. New York, NY, 10103 On Nov 16, 2004, at 9:29 AM, Johannes Reiss wrote: x-tad-smallerHallo Will,/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smallerThe problem is the 100% of the table width.../x-tad-smaller x-tad-smallerIn the html-file you may change /x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smallerdiv class=story>/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallertable width=100% etc. etc.>/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller /x-tad-smaller x-tad-smallerthe table width to less than 100%, eg. table width=90%/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerThan it works .../x-tad-smaller x-tad-smallerbest greetings/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smallerjohannes/x-tad-smaller x-tad-smaller- Original Message -/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller /x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerFrom:/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller /x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerWill Jensen/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller /x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerTo:/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller /x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller[EMAIL PROTECTED]/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller /x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerSent:/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller Monday, November 15, 2004 5:40 PM/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smallerSubject:/x-tad-smallerx-tad-smaller [WSG] DreamWeaver Template Left (or Right) Halo Nav in DW MX2004/x-tad-smallerI want to use the DW, Page Design CSS - Left Halo Nav template. It works well in all browsers, except it does not properly render in IE 6 on a WinTel PC. The problem seems to be with the Capsule Story element which is part of a table. In IE 6 Win the Capsule Story table begins after the bottom edge of the PageNav section has ended. In screen resolutions over 1024x760 this causes a large gap to appear in the content section between the div class story and the table'd Capsule Story. Any recommended work-arounds that will validate in XHTML 1.0 Strict!? I did not send files since this is not recommended for the list. I do not have a website where I can place it for this test. If someone wants to tackle this offline then I can send HTML and CSS files separately. Thanks, Will image.tiff> William H. Jensen, Jr. 67 Leninski Prospect Apartment #174, 5th Floor Moscow, Russia, 117296 Tel: (7)(095) 137-6546 [EMAIL PROTECTED] US address for mail forwarding to Russia is: William H. Jensen c/o IPS, MB 951 Suite 572 666 Fifth Ave. New York, NY, 10103
Re: [WSG] dreamweaver
On 18 Mar 2004, at 09:41, Jeremy Flint wrote: how many are successfully using the WYSIWYG on a consistent basis and doing standards compliant work? Sooner or later, you have to get into the code. I have used DWMX for a long time and managed to keep standards up to par, but mainly because I have done most of the hand-coding first in another editor (HomeSite/BBEdit); then I use DW for it's templating/site management facilities. Thereafter, if all I'm using it for is to enter/amend text in areas that I've defined as editable, it's great. DW is not the quickest editor for markup, but overall I think it does an excellent job of creating standards-based markup - better than any other wysiwyg editor that I can think of, anyway Ian Lloyd ~ WEB: http://www.ian-lloyd.com/ | AIM: uklloydi Round-the-World trip blog: http://ianandmanda.typepad.com/ -- Disclaimer: I am currently travelling and connect to the Internet sporadically. As such, much of what I write offline may be days (or more) old when it gets sent, hence the content may have been superceded by other people's emails. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] dreamweaver
Hugh Todd wrote: Macromedia decided to license the Opera HTML-rendering engine just as they did with Contribute 2 to provide more faithful layout rendering than before, although this does seem to come with a performance price at times. The review is here: http://www.creativepro.com/story/review/20340.html Hmmm... well, my sources are actual Macromedia Dreamweaver and Contribute engineers - I hope they know what they're talking about! I'll ask if there is an official statement available somewhere, as this seems to be a common misconception. Dreamweaver (Mac Win): custom rendering engine Contribute (Win): Internet Explorer Contribute (Mac): Opera Cheers, K. --- Kay Smoljak http://kay.smoljak.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] dreamweaver
Hugh Todd wrote: I'm not sure why this should be so, because I have an idea the rendering engine is now Opera. Just for the record Hugh, Dreamweaver uses it's own custom rendering engine. Macromedia Contribute uses Opera's rendering engine on the Macintosh, which is where you might be getting that from (Contribute on Windows uses Internet Explorer) . K. --- Kay Smoljak http://kay.smoljak.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] dreamweaver
I assume that everyone mentioning how great DW is for them is using it mainly in the coder (homesite) version. how many are successfully using the WYSIWYG on a consistent basis and doing standards compliant work? Sooner or later, you have to get into the code. Jeremy Flint www.jeremyflint.com Miles Tillinger wrote: add to that the ability to use regular expressions in the search and you've got a very powerful (albeit dangerous) find and replace! No more jumping from one program to another :) there aren't many things that DW can't do for me on a day to day basis... Miles. -Original Message- *From:* Michael Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *Sent:* Wednesday, March 17, 2004 6:57 PM *To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] *Subject:* RE: [WSG] dreamweaver I meant to mention (but forgot) a couple of great features for someone whos converting a site to web standards . You can search and replace based on characters or words, but also on tags. For example you can have it remove all font tags regardless of the parameters set for them, or change all upper case tags to lower case. And you can do it over an entire site, not just the file that is current or the open files. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] dreamweaver
Kay, Your reply sent me off to the web for a search. Couldn't find much, but this is what Creativepro.com's review says: Macromedia decided to license the Opera HTML-rendering engine just as they did with Contribute 2 to provide more faithful layout rendering than before, although this does seem to come with a performance price at times. The review is here: http://www.creativepro.com/story/review/20340.html I can't imagine that Macromedia would want to use a faulty rendering engine (IE) if it is, as it appears to be, committed to web standards. Are your sure about your assertion? (I'm only talking about MX 2004.) -Hugh Todd I'm not sure why this should be so, because I have an idea the rendering engine is now Opera. Just for the record Hugh, Dreamweaver uses it's own custom rendering engine. Macromedia Contribute uses Opera's rendering engine on the Macintosh, which is where you might be getting that from (Contribute on Windows uses Internet Explorer) . * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] dreamweaver
In my opinion in order to do css and html professionally you have to get into the code But many people use DW (or contribute) who do not code html etc professionally (eg. content managers, IAs, GDs, java developers), and this is where the design view comes in very handy. Luckily if you get shown how to use it properly a very high standard of code is possible from the design mode of dreamweaver. Not the level of control that I might desire, but enough for many applications of the tool and many users. Plus there are still the validation tools available in DW for cleanup s Jeremy Flint wrote: I assume that everyone mentioning how great DW is for them is using it mainly in the coder (homesite) version. how many are successfully using the WYSIWYG on a consistent basis and doing standards compliant work? Sooner or later, you have to get into the code. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] dreamweaver
Jeremy how many are successfully using the WYSIWYG on a consistent basis and doing standards compliant work? I've used DW for 5+ years and always used the design view first and then I'd have to clean up DW's verbose code by hand, but back then it was as standard as standards were. i would say that most design blogs are innocent in this respect. Your right of course, my blog comment was stereotyping at best. Leo
[WSG] dreamweaver
anyone using dreamweaver? as far as 100% valid transitional and strict xhtml sites go, can dreamweaver have its preferences etc manipulated enough to be to produce markup and css exactly the way you want? I've always used homesite religiously to handcode sites but may need to look to dreamweaver to satisfy some more complicated templating needs and sharing them across several designers (which dreamweaver looks like it can handle) - i just need to ensure dreamweaver can be whipped into line to produce squeaky clean standards based markup. (and yeah, i've read the macromedia site blurbs - but I was hoping to hear from anyone that has a lot of first hand experience with it - particularly on large scale sites maybe sharing templates between workmates etc) pete
RE: [WSG] dreamweaver
Sorry - I should have said I use DW MX - we're still on NT here and MX 2004 doesn't run on it. 2004 will have more accessibility and standards support options that plain MX. As Scott says, you can work in code view, design view, split - whatever you like. I'm in and out of all of them all day long. MX has some CSS display problems inside design view, which 2004 is supposed to have overcome somewhat, but as we work with style sheets that are as familiar as the proverbial back of hand, this is no biggy. Integration with Flash and Fireworks is also a bonus. WP Wendy Phillips Job Ready (Learning Development) Customer Sales Service ___ Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph: 61 3 9203 2363 Building 1, Ground Floor, 301 Burwood Hwy Burwood 3125 Our Intranet Site http://www.in.telstra.com.au/ism/retail_learning_cs/ -Original Message- From: scott parsons [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2004 3:49 pm To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] dreamweaver I use DW 2004, and rate it most highly. Since I pretty much just use the code view the html produced is mostly down to me... but even the design view is pretty good if the user actually knows how to use DW properly. The support for standards is high, including built in validators html tidy and xhtml or regular html. If you use homesite you might end up liking DW a lot, as you can turn off lots of code hinting and just about revert to homesite. But retain the superior find and replace, site and other DW features... Plus the collaborative features are handy. I like DW, I'm sure others have other preferences s I definately think it is worth it Peter Ottery wrote: anyone using dreamweaver? as far as 100% valid transitional and strict xhtml sites go, can dreamweaver have its preferences etc manipulated enough to be to produce markup and css exactly the way you want? I've always used homesite religiously to handcode sites but may need to look to dreamweaver to satisfy some more complicated templating needs and sharing them across several designers (which dreamweaver looks like it can handle) - i just need to ensure dreamweaver can be whipped into line to produce squeaky clean standards based markup. (and yeah, i've read the macromedia site blurbs - but I was hoping to hear from anyone that has a lot of first hand experience with it - particularly on large scale sites maybe sharing templates between workmates etc) pete * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] dreamweaver
On Mar 16, 2004, at 8:45 PM, Phillips, Wendy wrote: - validate in the program itself as strict /transitional etc One gotcha is that DW doesn't spot the following problem: a href=index.cfm?event=fooarg=barfoobar/a (It should convert to amp; in this or at least warn that it is non-compliant) Apart from that, it's pretty solid in terms of standards. Regards, Sean * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] dreamweaver
On Tuesday, March 16, 2004, at 11:27 PM, Peter Ottery wrote: can dreamweaver have its preferences etc manipulated enough to be to produce markup and css exactly the way you want? Pete Actually dreamweaver is an html scripted application internally. You can change or extend any part of the program to suit your needs. With this built-in scripting framework you could make dreamweaver talk baby-eze or code any standard you want to invent. Leo
