Re: More than one H1? (was [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest)

2009-10-16 Thread Jason Grant 
Tim
To keep it really simple:

Spec + SEO + Good IA + Semantics + Accessibility + Common sense == One H1
per page

Hope this makes sense?

Thanks,

Jason

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 2:39 PM, Tim White  wrote:

> OK, straight from Google Webmaster Central:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIn5qJKU8VM&feature=channel
> (video from
> March 2009)
>
> Tim
>
> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Jason Grant  wrote:
>
>> Tim,
>> Well done for reading the spec - it's always a must.
>>
>> However, Google came after the HTML4.01 spec and what Google wants we give
>> it - so the 'only one H1 per page' guideline comes from SEO best practices
>> as well as general semantics and IA best practices.
>>
>> So the spec does not tell you to use one H1 per page, but the spec is not
>> the be all and end all of guidelines.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Tim White wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 4:23 AM, Marilyn Langfeld >> > wrote:
>>>
 ...

>>>
>>>
  H1 is reserved for the title of the page. In a document, at least,
 there's only one title, while there may be many first level headings.
 ...

>>>
>>>
 So H1 is, IMHO, not the first level header, but the T1, or main title of
 the page. A logo is never, IMHO again, the title of the page.

>>>
>>>
>>> Let's look at what the specification says;
>>>
>>> "A heading element briefly describes the topic of the section it
>>> introduces. Heading information may be used by user agents, for example, to
>>> construct a table of contents for a document automatically.
>>>
>>> There are six levels of headings in HTML with 
>>> H1 as
>>> the most important and 
>>> H6 as
>>> the least. Visual browsers usually render more important headings in larger
>>> fonts than less important ones."
>>>
>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#h-7.5.5
>>>
>>> Nowhere does it say that H1s are for page titles or that there can be
>>> only 1 per page. In fact, the example shows two being used.
>>>
>>> ~ Tim
>>>
>>> ***
>>> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>>> Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
>>> Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
>>> ***
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jason Grant BSc, MSc
>> CEO, Flexewebs Ltd.
>> www.flexewebs.com
>> ja...@flexewebs.com
>> +44 (0)7748 591 770
>> Company no.: 5587469
>>
>> www.flexewebs.com/semantix
>> www.twitter.com/flexewebs
>> www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs
>>
>> ***
>>
>> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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>>
>
>
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>



-- 
Jason Grant BSc, MSc
CEO, Flexewebs Ltd.
www.flexewebs.com
ja...@flexewebs.com
+44 (0)7748 591 770
Company no.: 5587469

www.flexewebs.com/semantix
www.twitter.com/flexewebs
www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs


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Re: More than one H1? (was [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest)

2009-10-16 Thread Tim White 
OK, straight from Google Webmaster Central:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIn5qJKU8VM&feature=channel
(video from
March 2009)

Tim

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Jason Grant  wrote:

> Tim,
> Well done for reading the spec - it's always a must.
>
> However, Google came after the HTML4.01 spec and what Google wants we give
> it - so the 'only one H1 per page' guideline comes from SEO best practices
> as well as general semantics and IA best practices.
>
> So the spec does not tell you to use one H1 per page, but the spec is not
> the be all and end all of guidelines.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Tim White  wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 4:23 AM, Marilyn Langfeld 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>
>>
>>>  H1 is reserved for the title of the page. In a document, at least,
>>> there's only one title, while there may be many first level headings.
>>> ...
>>>
>>
>>
>>> So H1 is, IMHO, not the first level header, but the T1, or main title of
>>> the page. A logo is never, IMHO again, the title of the page.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Let's look at what the specification says;
>>
>> "A heading element briefly describes the topic of the section it
>> introduces. Heading information may be used by user agents, for example, to
>> construct a table of contents for a document automatically.
>>
>> There are six levels of headings in HTML with 
>> H1 as
>> the most important and 
>> H6 as
>> the least. Visual browsers usually render more important headings in larger
>> fonts than less important ones."
>>
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#h-7.5.5
>>
>> Nowhere does it say that H1s are for page titles or that there can be only
>> 1 per page. In fact, the example shows two being used.
>>
>> ~ Tim
>>
>> ***
>> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>> Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
>> Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
>> ***
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jason Grant BSc, MSc
> CEO, Flexewebs Ltd.
> www.flexewebs.com
> ja...@flexewebs.com
> +44 (0)7748 591 770
> Company no.: 5587469
>
> www.flexewebs.com/semantix
> www.twitter.com/flexewebs
> www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs
>
> ***
>
> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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RE: More than one H1? (was [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest)

2009-10-16 Thread EBS Admin 
I'm sorry but i'm going to put my 2 pence worth in. The site I build use a
H1 for the logo, then a h1 for a title further down the page, using the h1,
h2, h3, etc structure and Google seems to love those site the latest lauch
has h1, h2 and a h3 in the header and it's on page 1 already after being
launched 3 weeks ago. So in terms of following best practive, providing
clear text to screen reader and for SEO the use of H tags should be as the
W3C advises.

  _  

From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On
Behalf Of Yuval Ararat
Sent: 16 October 2009 13:11
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: More than one H1? (was [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG
Digest)


I am not sure that a page with multiple important subject does not exist. so
IA wise and semantic wise this is not a must. google wise it is.


On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Jason Grant  wrote:


Tim, 

Well done for reading the spec - it's always a must. 

However, Google came after the HTML4.01 spec and what Google wants we give
it - so the 'only one H1 per page' guideline comes from SEO best practices
as well as general semantics and IA best practices. 

So the spec does not tell you to use one H1 per page, but the spec is not
the be all and end all of guidelines.

Thanks,

Jason 


On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Tim White  wrote:


On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 4:23 AM, Marilyn Langfeld 
wrote:


...

 

H1 is reserved for the title of the page. In a document, at least, there's
only one title, while there may be many first level headings.
...

 

So H1 is, IMHO, not the first level header, but the T1, or main title of the
page. A logo is never, IMHO again, the title of the page.

 

Let's look at what the specification says; 

"A heading element briefly describes the topic of the section it introduces.
Heading information may be used by user agents, for example, to construct a
table of contents for a document automatically.
There are six levels of headings in HTML with
<http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#edef-H1> H1 as the most
important and  <http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#edef-H6> H6
as the least. Visual browsers usually render more important headings in
larger fonts than less important ones."

 <http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#h-7.5.5>
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#h-7.5.5

Nowhere does it say that H1s are for page titles or that there can be only 1
per page. In fact, the example shows two being used.

~ Tim


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-- 
Jason Grant BSc, MSc
CEO, Flexewebs Ltd. 
www.flexewebs.com 
ja...@flexewebs.com 
+44 (0)7748 591 770
Company no.: 5587469 

www.flexewebs.com/semantix
www.twitter.com/flexewebs 
www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs


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Re: More than one H1? (was [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest)

2009-10-16 Thread Jason Grant 
Yuval,
Everything exists on the Internet, but it doesn't mean it's good.

So pages with multiple subject do exist, they are just known as 'bad pages'
from IA perspective. ;-)

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Yuval Ararat  wrote:

> I am not sure that a page with multiple important subject does not exist.
> so IA wise and semantic wise this is not a must. google wise it is.
>
> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Jason Grant  wrote:
>
>> Tim,
>> Well done for reading the spec - it's always a must.
>>
>> However, Google came after the HTML4.01 spec and what Google wants we give
>> it - so the 'only one H1 per page' guideline comes from SEO best practices
>> as well as general semantics and IA best practices.
>>
>> So the spec does not tell you to use one H1 per page, but the spec is not
>> the be all and end all of guidelines.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Tim White wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 4:23 AM, Marilyn Langfeld >> > wrote:
>>>
 ...

>>>
>>>
  H1 is reserved for the title of the page. In a document, at least,
 there's only one title, while there may be many first level headings.
 ...

>>>
>>>
 So H1 is, IMHO, not the first level header, but the T1, or main title of
 the page. A logo is never, IMHO again, the title of the page.

>>>
>>>
>>>  Let's look at what the specification says;
>>>
>>> "A heading element briefly describes the topic of the section it
>>> introduces. Heading information may be used by user agents, for example, to
>>> construct a table of contents for a document automatically.
>>>
>>> There are six levels of headings in HTML with 
>>> H1 as
>>> the most important and 
>>> H6 as
>>> the least. Visual browsers usually render more important headings in larger
>>> fonts than less important ones."
>>>
>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#h-7.5.5
>>>
>>> Nowhere does it say that H1s are for page titles or that there can be
>>> only 1 per page. In fact, the example shows two being used.
>>>
>>> ~ Tim
>>>
>>> ***
>>> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>>> Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
>>> Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
>>> ***
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jason Grant BSc, MSc
>> CEO, Flexewebs Ltd.
>> www.flexewebs.com
>> ja...@flexewebs.com
>> +44 (0)7748 591 770
>> Company no.: 5587469
>>
>> www.flexewebs.com/semantix
>> www.twitter.com/flexewebs
>> www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs
>>
>> ***
>>
>> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>> Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
>> Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
>> ***
>>
>
>
> ***
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>



-- 
Jason Grant BSc, MSc
CEO, Flexewebs Ltd.
www.flexewebs.com
ja...@flexewebs.com
+44 (0)7748 591 770
Company no.: 5587469

www.flexewebs.com/semantix
www.twitter.com/flexewebs
www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs


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Re: More than one H1? (was [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest)

2009-10-16 Thread Yuval Ararat 
I am not sure that a page with multiple important subject does not exist. so
IA wise and semantic wise this is not a must. google wise it is.

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Jason Grant  wrote:

> Tim,
> Well done for reading the spec - it's always a must.
>
> However, Google came after the HTML4.01 spec and what Google wants we give
> it - so the 'only one H1 per page' guideline comes from SEO best practices
> as well as general semantics and IA best practices.
>
> So the spec does not tell you to use one H1 per page, but the spec is not
> the be all and end all of guidelines.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Tim White  wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 4:23 AM, Marilyn Langfeld 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>
>>
>>>  H1 is reserved for the title of the page. In a document, at least,
>>> there's only one title, while there may be many first level headings.
>>> ...
>>>
>>
>>
>>> So H1 is, IMHO, not the first level header, but the T1, or main title of
>>> the page. A logo is never, IMHO again, the title of the page.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Let's look at what the specification says;
>>
>> "A heading element briefly describes the topic of the section it
>> introduces. Heading information may be used by user agents, for example, to
>> construct a table of contents for a document automatically.
>>
>> There are six levels of headings in HTML with 
>> H1 as
>> the most important and 
>> H6 as
>> the least. Visual browsers usually render more important headings in larger
>> fonts than less important ones."
>>
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#h-7.5.5
>>
>> Nowhere does it say that H1s are for page titles or that there can be only
>> 1 per page. In fact, the example shows two being used.
>>
>> ~ Tim
>>
>> ***
>> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
>> Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
>> Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
>> ***
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jason Grant BSc, MSc
> CEO, Flexewebs Ltd.
> www.flexewebs.com
> ja...@flexewebs.com
> +44 (0)7748 591 770
> Company no.: 5587469
>
> www.flexewebs.com/semantix
> www.twitter.com/flexewebs
> www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs
>
> ***
>
> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
> Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
> ***
>


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Re: More than one H1? (was [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest)

2009-10-16 Thread Yuval Ararat 
The issue with having more then 1 H! tag is not the validity of the page as
XHTML or HTML5 or any other specification, its not even affecting WCAG1/2.
the only case that is affected is the search engines relationship with H1
that entitled it as the Content's Title. it is not mandatory that it will be
the same as the Title tag but it should be relevant to the Content and a
page is better off with only 1 H1 for search engines.

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Tim White  wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 4:23 AM, Marilyn Langfeld 
> wrote:
>
>> ...
>>
>
>
>> H1 is reserved for the title of the page. In a document, at least, there's
>> only one title, while there may be many first level headings.
>> ...
>>
>
>
>> So H1 is, IMHO, not the first level header, but the T1, or main title of
>> the page. A logo is never, IMHO again, the title of the page.
>>
>
>
> Let's look at what the specification says;
>
> "A heading element briefly describes the topic of the section it
> introduces. Heading information may be used by user agents, for example, to
> construct a table of contents for a document automatically.
>
> There are six levels of headings in HTML with 
> H1 as
> the most important and 
> H6 as
> the least. Visual browsers usually render more important headings in larger
> fonts than less important ones."
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#h-7.5.5
>
> Nowhere does it say that H1s are for page titles or that there can be only
> 1 per page. In fact, the example shows two being used.
>
> ~ Tim
>
> ***
> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
> Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
> ***
>


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Re: More than one H1? (was [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest)

2009-10-16 Thread Jason Grant 
Tim,
Well done for reading the spec - it's always a must.

However, Google came after the HTML4.01 spec and what Google wants we give
it - so the 'only one H1 per page' guideline comes from SEO best practices
as well as general semantics and IA best practices.

So the spec does not tell you to use one H1 per page, but the spec is not
the be all and end all of guidelines.

Thanks,

Jason

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Tim White  wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 4:23 AM, Marilyn Langfeld 
> wrote:
>
>> ...
>>
>
>
>> H1 is reserved for the title of the page. In a document, at least, there's
>> only one title, while there may be many first level headings.
>> ...
>>
>
>
>> So H1 is, IMHO, not the first level header, but the T1, or main title of
>> the page. A logo is never, IMHO again, the title of the page.
>>
>
>
> Let's look at what the specification says;
>
> "A heading element briefly describes the topic of the section it
> introduces. Heading information may be used by user agents, for example, to
> construct a table of contents for a document automatically.
>
> There are six levels of headings in HTML with 
> H1 as
> the most important and 
> H6 as
> the least. Visual browsers usually render more important headings in larger
> fonts than less important ones."
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#h-7.5.5
>
> Nowhere does it say that H1s are for page titles or that there can be only
> 1 per page. In fact, the example shows two being used.
>
> ~ Tim
>
> ***
> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
> Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
> ***
>



-- 
Jason Grant BSc, MSc
CEO, Flexewebs Ltd.
www.flexewebs.com
ja...@flexewebs.com
+44 (0)7748 591 770
Company no.: 5587469

www.flexewebs.com/semantix
www.twitter.com/flexewebs
www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs


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Re: More than one H1? (was [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest)

2009-10-16 Thread Tim White 
On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 4:23 AM, Marilyn Langfeld 
wrote:

> ...
>


> H1 is reserved for the title of the page. In a document, at least, there's
> only one title, while there may be many first level headings.
> ...
>


> So H1 is, IMHO, not the first level header, but the T1, or main title of
> the page. A logo is never, IMHO again, the title of the page.
>


Let's look at what the specification says;

"A heading element briefly describes the topic of the section it introduces.
Heading information may be used by user agents, for example, to construct a
table of contents for a document automatically.

There are six levels of headings in HTML with
H1 as
the most important and
H6 as
the least. Visual browsers usually render more important headings in larger
fonts than less important ones."

http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#h-7.5.5

Nowhere does it say that H1s are for page titles or that there can be only 1
per page. In fact, the example shows two being used.

~ Tim


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Re: [Spam] :Re: More than one H1? (was [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest)

2009-10-16 Thread Oliver Boermans 
2009/10/16 Adam Martin :
> Again the logo is usually only the most important thing to the owner - not
> the customer - the customer will recognise if they are on the right site or
> not.

I believe it”s appropriate to represent the logo as a h1 on a site’s
home page, unless you are using a positioning statement in the page
title of home page. In which case it would be best to apply the h1 to
that within the page. HTH
--
Ollie Boermans
@ollicle


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[Spam] :Re: More than one H1? (was [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest)

2009-10-16 Thread Adam Martin 
While I agree that you can have several areas of equal importance on a 
page. I still beg to differ that you would want to saturate the 
effectiveness of a h1 tag by using it by wrapping it around the logo. It 
seems to me to be a little like the infamous "can you make my logo a 
little bigger" that is requested by the client quite often. Your brand 
simply has to be recognised - not be the main focus of the page. Content 
is king here - forget about everything else. Write the content of each 
page in Microsoft word using the title tags that are provided and then 
you have a very good basis of how the content should be presented on the 
web - the rules are the same.


In saying this I don't believe in focussing on SEO - no point in getting 
the search engines find you if you only lose the customer when they come 
to your site. I always focus on the customer and the information they 
want to find. Customer Optimisation will always pay off much more than 
SEO can ever dream of - 1 qualified customers is much better than 100 
non qualified.


I know this has deviated a lot from the original question but I feel it 
has relevance - ask yourself some basic questions, write the content and 
then look at the semantics that best fit.


Again the logo is usually only the most important thing to the owner - 
not the customer - the customer will recognise if they are on the right 
site or not.


Cheers Adam.

P.S written from Thailand after a couple too many afternoon beers.



c...@fagandesign.com.au wrote:

Thanks for your responses...

Why use more than one H1? Simple...2 areas of the page that are of 
equal importance.


Why should it only be one? I understand the simplicity of focusing on 
one area of each page and the impact that could have in search 
resultsbut that that doesn't entirely relate to semantic 
structure. Is it not entirely plausible/acceptable to have 2 equally 
important area of the page?


I feel the logo is very important. It is, in theory, the first thing 
people notice on a site and the single most important bit of branding.


I understand also that a H1 is important to search engines 
indexingbut I'm yet to see/read/hear of any solid information that 
suggests Google (in particular) degrade the rank of your site based on 
the existence of more than one H1.


Quoting Yuval Ararat :

> Its not specified any where that a single H1 is the right approach. 
SEO guys

> have found that google search engine tends to read the H1 as the main
> subject and decided to punish any page with more then one. the 
punishment is

> not severe so not every one of the major sites obey.
> In HTML 5 there is a huge discussion about the header
> tagand 
 the

> existance of h1 inside of it. my take is that this will not catch
> and only google and bing indexing will set the way they want to 
structure of

> pages to be.
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 3:45 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Hi all, have come across something that I'm sure has come up before...
>>
>> Have created a new site with the logo wrapped in a H1 tag.
>>
>> The title of each page is also a H1.
>>
>> Just got word back from an outsourced SEO expert who says it's probably
>> better if there was only one H1 on each page.
>>
>> Does anyone know of any online resources backing up this theory?
>>
>> I don't think it's a huge SEO concern at all but the signature on 
my return

>> email doesn't have "SEO expert" on it.
>>
>> Many thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>> Christian Fagan
>> Fagan Design
>> fagandesign.com.au
>>
>> ***
>> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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Re: More than one H1? (was [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest)

2009-10-16 Thread Jason Grant 
I attempted this very topic before in a blog post:
http://www.flexewebs.com/semantix/semantic-uses-of-h1-h2-h6-html-tags/
Hope
it makes sense.
Thanks,
Jason

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 9:08 AM,  wrote:

> Thanks for your responses...
>
> Why use more than one H1? Simple...2 areas of the page that are of equal
> importance.
>
> Why should it only be one? I understand the simplicity of focusing on one
> area of each page and the impact that could have in search resultsbut
> that that doesn't entirely relate to semantic structure. Is it not entirely
> plausible/acceptable to have 2 equally important area of the page?
>
> I feel the logo is very important. It is, in theory, the first thing people
> notice on a site and the single most important bit of branding.
>
> I understand also that a H1 is important to search engines indexingbut
> I'm yet to see/read/hear of any solid information that suggests Google (in
> particular) degrade the rank of your site based on the existence of more
> than one H1.
>
> Quoting Yuval Ararat :
>
> > Its not specified any where that a single H1 is the right approach. SEO
> guys
> > have found that google search engine tends to read the H1 as the main
> > subject and decided to punish any page with more then one. the punishment
> is
> > not severe so not every one of the major sites obey.
> > In HTML 5 there is a huge discussion about the header
> > tagandthe
> > existance of h1 inside of it. my take is that this will not catch
> > and only google and bing indexing will set the way they want to structure
> of
> > pages to be.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 3:45 PM,  wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all, have come across something that I'm sure has come up before...
> >>
> >> Have created a new site with the logo wrapped in a H1 tag.
> >>
> >> The title of each page is also a H1.
> >>
> >> Just got word back from an outsourced SEO expert who says it's probably
> >> better if there was only one H1 on each page.
> >>
> >> Does anyone know of any online resources backing up this theory?
> >>
> >> I don't think it's a huge SEO concern at all but the signature on my
> return
> >> email doesn't have "SEO expert" on it.
> >>
> >> Many thanks.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Christian Fagan
> >> Fagan Design
> >> fagandesign.com.au
> >>
> >> ***
> >> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> >> Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
> >> Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
> >> ***
> >
> >
> > ***
> > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
> > Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org
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>
> ***
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-- 
Jason Grant BSc, MSc
CEO, Flexewebs Ltd.
www.flexewebs.com
ja...@flexewebs.com
+44 (0)7748 591 770
Company no.: 5587469

www.flexewebs.com/semantix
www.twitter.com/flexewebs
www.linkedin.com/in/flexewebs


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Re: More than one H1? (was [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest)

2009-10-16 Thread Marilyn Langfeld 
Speaking as both publications, graphic and web designer, the real problem has always been that the title resides in the head, not in a title tag inside the body. H1 is reserved for the title of the page. In a document, at least, there's only one title, while there may be many first level headings.This confusion wouldn't have happened if HTML had a T1 and maybe T2 tag (title and subtitle).So H1 is, IMHO, not the first level header, but the T1, or main title of the page. A logo is never, IMHO again, the title of the page. Of course, all web pages aren't documents, which confuses the issue. But I believe this is the back story, at least it's what makes sense to me. Best regards,Marilyn Langfeldwww.langfeldesigns.comm...@langfeldesigns.com+1.202.390.8847 mobile On Oct 16, 2009, at 4:08 AM, c...@fagandesign.com.au wrote: Thanks for your responses...Why use more than one H1? Simple...2 areas of the page that are of equal importance.Why should it only be one? I understand the simplicity of focusing on one area of each page and the impact that could have in search resultsbut that that doesn't entirely relate to semantic structure. Is it not entirely plausible/acceptable to have 2 equally important area of the page?I feel the logo is very important. It is, in theory, the first thing people notice on a site and the single most important bit of branding.I understand also that a H1 is important to search engines indexingbut I'm yet to see/read/hear of any solid information that suggests Google (in particular) degrade the rank of your site based on the existence of more than one H1. Quoting Yuval Ararat : > Its not specified any where that a single H1 is the right approach. SEO guys > have found that google search engine tends to read the H1 as the main > subject and decided to punish any page with more then one. the punishment is > not severe so not every one of the major sites obey. > In HTML 5 there is a huge discussion about the header > tagand the > existance of h1 inside of it. my take is that this will not catch > and only google and bing indexing will set the way they want to structure of > pages to be. > > > On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 3:45 PM,  wrote: > >> Hi all, have come across something that I'm sure has come up before... >> >> Have created a new site with the logo wrapped in a H1 tag. >> >> The title of each page is also a H1. >> >> Just got word back from an outsourced SEO expert who says it's probably >> better if there was only one H1 on each page. >> >> Does anyone know of any online resources backing up this theory? >> >> I don't think it's a huge SEO concern at all but the signature on my return >> email doesn't have "SEO expert" on it. >> >> Many thanks. >> >> >> >> Christian Fagan >> Fagan Design >> fagandesign.com.au >> >> *** >> List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm >> Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm >> Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org >> *** > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org > *** ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org***
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Re: More than one H1? (was [WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest)

2009-10-16 Thread cf 

Thanks for your responses...

Why use more than one H1? Simple...2 areas of the page that are of  
equal importance.


Why should it only be one? I understand the simplicity of focusing on  
one area of each page and the impact that could have in search  
resultsbut that that doesn't entirely relate to semantic  
structure. Is it not entirely plausible/acceptable to have 2 equally  
important area of the page?


I feel the logo is very important. It is, in theory, the first thing  
people notice on a site and the single most important bit of branding.


I understand also that a H1 is important to search engines  
indexingbut I'm yet to see/read/hear of any solid information that  
suggests Google (in particular) degrade the rank of your site based on  
the existence of more than one H1.


Quoting Yuval Ararat :


Its not specified any where that a single H1 is the right approach. SEO guys
have found that google search engine tends to read the H1 as the main
subject and decided to punish any page with more then one. the punishment is
not severe so not every one of the major sites obey.
In HTML 5 there is a huge discussion about the header
taghttp://dev.w3.org/html5/markup/header.html#header>and the
existance of h1 inside of it. my take is that this will not catch
and only google and bing indexing will set the way they want to structure of
pages to be.


On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 3:45 PM,  wrote:


Hi all, have come across something that I'm sure has come up before...

Have created a new site with the logo wrapped in a H1 tag.

The title of each page is also a H1.

Just got word back from an outsourced SEO expert who says it's probably
better if there was only one H1 on each page.

Does anyone know of any online resources backing up this theory?

I don't think it's a huge SEO concern at all but the signature on my return
email doesn't have "SEO expert" on it.

Many thanks.



Christian Fagan
Fagan Design
fagandesign.com.au

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