RE: [WSG] Icon and Aura
not to bad considering! Nice one -Original Message- From: Ben Bishop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 22 October 2003 2:38 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Icon and Aura Can't quite replicate the hover state, but: http://www.browsercam.com/public.aspx?proj_id=26543 Lindsay Evans wrote: Only tested in FB 0.6.1, IE 6 on XP (I'm lazy today). Suggestions welcome. Oh, and I know the hover thing isn't working in IE. IE is a PITA can go to hell :) * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Icon and Aura
cmon you webstandards ppl!
acronym title=Pain in the ArsePITA/acronym
I had to go look it up myself :'(
-Original Message-
From: scott parsons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 October 2003 2:56 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Icon and Aura
um, lindsay you must be half asleep today...
put the hover on an a tag
a:hover {
color: #00;
background: #66;
}
and it works fine in the pita browser, else v cute
s
Lindsay Evans wrote:
Only tested in FB 0.6.1, IE 6 on XP (I'm lazy today).
Suggestions welcome.
Oh, and I know the hover thing isn't working in IE.
IE is a PITA can go to hell :)
Well, at least until I get bored enough to figure out why it
isn't working :p
--
Lindsay Evans.
Developer,
Red Square Productions.
[p] 8596.4000
[f] 8596.4001
[w] www.redsquare.com.au
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çb±²*'+-~á¶Úÿ²uª
+
[WSG] Browser test suite
What kind of setup do ppl here use for browser testing? I'm setting up a PC with Virtual PC and multiple OS's, but I'm wondering things like: how many installs of each OS needed to test various version of IE for example, does IE6 on Win2k have different issues to IE6 on any other Win OS (XP,ME,98) Is there any way to have multiple IE version on the same OS? Each OS install will incur another licence fee, so I'm trying to keep things cheap! If there is a better way to do it I'm open to suggestions... Cheers, Miles. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
[WSG] Image float and text wrap
I want to have an image with text on the right, but when the text goes beyond the bottom of the image I don't want it wrap, but rather to keep the consistent margin: - | | | | | | | | | | Regards, Miles * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
[WSG] Re: Image float and text wrap
Oops, my fingers slipped onto the send shortcut... so, as I was saying: - text text text | | text text text | | text text text | | text text text | image| text text text | | text text text | | text text text | | text text text - text text text text text text text text text text text text text text text text text text text text text Can this be achieved without using tables? Regards, Miles * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Re: Image float and text wrap
Thanks, that achieves the effect I'm after, but The reason I wanted to do it was because the image and the text both linked to the same URL with an a tag each (in separate cells of a table). I wanted to combine them so they were both wrapped in the one a tag, but when the a tag is wrapped around both div's clicking the image doesn't open the URL. So the solution defeats its own purpose :( Any ideas? -Original Message- From: James Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 10:52 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: Image float and text wrap Miles : Put your text in in a block set its margin-left to x pixels (.eg 170) should be wider than the image (.eg 160).. The margin will run from the left of the containing block. This will work for fixed width images. Cheers James Miles Tillinger wrote: Oops, my fingers slipped onto the send shortcut... so, as I was saying: - text text text | | text text text | | text text text | | text text text | image| text text text | | text text text | | text text text | | text text text - text text text text text text text text text text text text text text text text text text text text text Can this be achieved without using tables? Regards, Miles * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] RE: Image float and text wrap
Thanks, but this caused the text next to the image to align to the bottom of the
image. Is there any way to make it align the the top?
p.s. I'm having a hard time keeping up with everyone's suggestions, but thanks muchly
all the same! I'll try them all :D
-Original Message-
From: Irapuan Martinez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 11:35 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] RE: Image float and text wrap
At 11:09 13/11/2003 +1030, Miles Tillinger wrote:
The reason I wanted to do it was because the image and the text both
linked to the same URL with an a tag each (in separate cells of a
table). I wanted to combine them so they were both wrapped in the one a
tag, but when the a tag is wrapped around both div's clicking the image
doesn't open the URL. So the solution defeats its own purpose :( Any ideas?
Try:
div#megatron {
position: relative;
margin-left: 100px;
}
div#megatron img {
position: absolute;
top: 0;
left: 0;
}
..
div class=megatron
a href=...
img src=... width=90 /
All your base are belong ...
/a
/div
Irapuan Martinez .__
http://www.hypergraph.com.br
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RE: [WSG] Re: html encryption tool
Actually, its even BETTER than that! Its a 'feature': http://www.mtopsoft.com/ Dec 28, 2003, Encrypt HTML Pro V2.1 Released: Encrypt and protect your web source code, including HTML source code, JavaScript, VBScript, text, links and graphics, from being viewed and reused by others. .. Disable opera users. .. Wow! -Original Message- From: Irapuan Martinez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 8:33 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Re: html encryption tool At 17:25 13/11/2003 +1100, Hill, Tim wrote: Does anyone know how this would work? It encrypts the source code so you can view it but it is encrypted. http://www.mtopsoft.com/encrypt-html-pro/index.htm In on line demo (http://www.mtopsoft.com/encrypt-html-pro/example.htm), appear: This web page does not support Opera Crap IE tecnology proprietary. Irapuan Martinez .__ http://www.hypergraph.com.br * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Re: html encryption tool
No joke! http://www.mtopsoft.com/, scroll down to the 'News', 'Disable opera users' is fourth from the bottom... In fact BOTH of their products news items are listed as 28/12/03 (good spot!) I've even taken a ss for any non-believers... Miles. -Original Message- From: James Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 9:30 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Re: html encryption tool You're joking aren't you? Couldn't find that reference on their site Miles Tillinger wrote: .. Disable opera users. .. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * attachment: mtopsoft.gif
RE: [WSG] Preparing for DOCTYPE
The live version is www.edna.edu.au, but this currently has no DOCTYPE. However I am testing different DOCTYPEs internally on a version of the site templates that have had a lot of issues fixed. I have been instructed to apply as many Priority 1 and 2 accessibility requirements as possible, and let me tell you it's not going to be easy as the site design seems as though it was built for eye candy rather than usability! However I'd like to try and at least get the existing design somewhat accessible before I convince them a redesign is a good idea... Miles. -Original Message- From: Mark Stanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 10:51 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Preparing for DOCTYPE Post a link to the list! Cheers Mark -- Mark Stanton Technical Director Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: 9956 6388 Mob: 0410 458 201 Fax: 9956 8433 http://www.gruden.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Preparing for DOCTYPE
One of the problems that is really annoying is the font-size. With a DOCTYPE the text shrinks to an unreadable size. From looking around at other good examples of accessible sites it seems that some use em's, and some use a mixture of px and % values. The current css for the site is a jumble of %'s and font sizes vary across different browsers. -Original Message- From: russ weakley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 11:23 AM To: Web Standards Group Subject: Re: [WSG] Preparing for DOCTYPE Miles, I'd start with a safe option and go for HTML 4.01 transitional. It is easy to achieve and reliable. We've discussed XHTML doctypes and the issues at length on the list recently so no point going over that. I did a quick site validation forcing character encoding (also missing) and setting it to HTML 4.01: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.edna.edu.au%2Fedna%2Fpage 1.htmlcharset=iso-8859-1+%28Western+Europe%29doctype=HTML+4.01+Transitiona l While the errors look daunting, there is a lot of global replacing that could solve a chunk of this stuff. There is a small article that may help on getting your site valid here: http://webboy.net/presentation/validation.cfm Russ The live version is www.edna.edu.au, but this currently has no DOCTYPE. However I am testing different DOCTYPEs internally on a version of the site templates that have had a lot of issues fixed. I have been instructed to apply as many Priority 1 and 2 accessibility requirements as possible, and let me tell you it's not going to be easy as the site design seems as though it was built for eye candy rather than usability! However I'd like to try and at least get the existing design somewhat accessible before I convince them a redesign is a good idea... Miles. -Original Message- From: Mark Stanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 10:51 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Preparing for DOCTYPE Post a link to the list! * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] IE whitespace issues
From an earlier post ('[WSG] relative positioning of nested lists') that sounds
similar problem:
The extra linebreak vanishes if you specify padding-bottom or border-bottom.
HTH.
-Original Message-
From: James Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 2:42 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] IE whitespace issues
Hi all
I'm beating my head against a wall about this one... IE 5.5 and 6 is
putting in some mystery whitespace (looks like about 8-10 pixels - a
line) after a horizontal navigation list. This hor. list has a nested
list holding some text within it.
The UL tag is contained in a div - the bottom whitespace is in between
the bottom of the ul and the bottom of the div.
This occurs when I set the width of the list to a fixed value (% or
px). When I set to auto the issue disappears but then when I roll over
a link in the list (a) the content block (a div) below the list moves
down the page one line at a time!!! - no javascript involved :D
Has anyone seen or knows of a fix for this (I've tried everything I know.)
Cheers
James
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RE: [WSG] A Little CSS Help
more here... http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/fonts.html#generic-font-families -Original Message-From: Chris Stratford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 5:28 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [WSG] A Little CSS Help Hey Everyone! Well I have been soldering on with my first attempt at a fully CSS powered website. I have the total layout setup: www.neester.com/index2.php The only thing bugging me is this error: Line : 0 font-family: You are encouraged to offer a generic family as a last alternative How do I fix that? I dont know what it means, how does one offer a generic family? Thanks in advance! Chris Stratford [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.neester.com
RE: [WSG] Re: px em pt ???
I definitely agree that relative sized fonts provide a more accessible design but I wonder about how sight-impaired users themselves use the web and their PC's in general? For instance, my grandfather has coke-bottle-thickness glasses and as such uses a 19 monitor in 800x600 resolution, which seems ridiculous to me with my 20/20 vision. However for him it is perfect and when he reads websites he doesn't have to adjust the font size because it is already fine for him based on the fact that his interface is already configured to be large in all respects. I doubt there would be site-impaired users who use 1280x1024 resolution for Windows and just increase the font-size in their browser. In fact I would guess that they would, like my grandfather, already have their interface appearance tweaked the way thay want and therefore their browser would inherit the same appearance. Just my $0.02... Miles. -Original Message- From: Cameron Adams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 1:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Re: px em pt ??? That article gives the worst advice I've seen. Basically, they're saying that if someone wants to resize the text on your web page, you shouldn't allow them to because it will break your site, making it illegible. If a user wants to resize the text on your site, it is because it is illegible to them in the first place; increasing font size can only improve matters. Better that it breaks your design and they're able to see the content, rather than them not being able to see it at all. By using px units, you lock many users into exactly the font size specified (some browsers can resize px, but not IE). Using a relative unit, such as em or % (I use em), allows users to resize text so they can ACTUALLY SEE IT. If you ask any reasonably usability-oriented designer they will tell you to use relative units (www.stopdesign.com | www.zeldman.com), and to code your web page structure to allow for variable text sizes. Hope this helps (and it didn't seem like I was yelling at you), -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com In reply to: (aayyy, my third post today?) I'd like to see what all of yours opinion is on what to use for sizes, I have always been a believer to stick to pixels, because that is the only size that to me sounds as something that is not platform/OS bound. Anyway, I also found the following article to back this up, who wants to break it down? Using CSS (cascading style sheets) makes it easy to specify font sizes, but before you set a font size you should be aware that it could change the layout of your site considerably. Different browsers interpret font sizes differently, so a font that appears readable in Microsoft Internet Explorer may be smaller when viewed in Netscape. In addition, font sizes on Windows systems are not always the same as they are on other platforms. Your site may look great to Windows users, but it may be illegible to those using a Mac. There is much controversy in relationship to font-size specifications. Our advice is the same as the majority of long-time designers. When you specify a font size, specify it in pixels (px) not points (pt) or em. Using a pt or em font-size property instead of px allows for your site text to be resized according to the viewer's system settings. If their system is set to view very large text, your web site's layout will become distorted and your web site may be illegible to them. Also, be very careful not to set your font-size pixels too small. Some folks may not be able to read tiny text and adjusting their system text size will have no effect on your site because your font-size is specified as px. There truly is a happy medium in any situation and the font-size (ie. 12px) will vary depending on the font-family (ie. Arial, Times New Roman, etc.) you use. __ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Re: px em pt ???
touché Mark ;) It is a problem that Windows buries its accessibility options so deep. I think it would be better that he could walk into a net cafe and be able to easily changes the OS font-size. However since this isn't the case, the ability to change it in the browser IS the next best thing... Personally I am not going to use anything but relative font sizes in future site design, however I think it can be a steep learning curve for an amateur web designer when pixel sizes seem to be consistent in all browsers and so much simpler to use. -Original Message- From: Mark Stanton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 2:19 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Re: px em pt ??? I get your point Miles - but why should your grandfather NOT be able to walk into an internet cafe and use the 15 monitor at 1024x768 with IE 5 on it? Accessibility means removing as many obstacles as possible. Cheers Mark -- Mark Stanton Technical Director Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: 9956 6388 Mob: 0410 458 201 Fax: 9956 8433 http://www.gruden.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] OT: Opening documents in _blank window
I don't suppose we're actually 'serving' the PDF or DOC as such, in that we only link to the file. As we have no control over the header of the file, the user's OS will handle it however it is configured to. Herein lies the problem... -Original Message- From: Bradley Wright [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 9:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] OT: Opening documents in _blank window Miles, Generally when serving PDF type document at my place of work, we serve them using a custom HTTP header: header( content-disposition: inline ); (that's the PHP way to do it). This works for us because we serve most of our documents as BLOBs from the database. If you're not doing that, I'm not sure my help will be any... help. Be careful with this one, it seems to work pretty well in IE, but other browsers ignore it. Then again, other browsers generally behave better with attachments/mime-types in general. Miles Tillinger wrote: Just a question about how other developers handle opening documents e.g. PDF, DOC, in a new window. At the moment I am using _blank targets. Scenario 1: User is using IE with Word configured to open inside the IE window. When the user clicks on a link to the Word doc a new IE window opens and the doc is loaded in that window. Scenario 2: User is using IE or another browser, but is configured to open Word doc's in Word, not in the Browser window. When the user clicks on a link to the Word doc a new Browser window open and the user either prompted to Save or Open the doc, or may even open the doc in Word automatically if the user has previously selected that option. The problem here is that the user is left with a blank Browser window. So Scenario 1 is how I'd like it to behave in every case, but is this possible? Since I have no way of knowing how the user has their system configured I don't know whether to offer the link with a _blank target or not? Is there an accessible standard way of doing it? Regards, Miles * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Fixed Width Design
If I had a dollar for everytime that I had given some a www-less URL verbally and they've just entered www. blah out of habit, I'd be a millionaire! Ubergeek: Ok, enter the URL 'news.google.com' N00b: [enters www.news.google.com] Ubergeek: No, no no, no WWW! N00b: news.google.com, without www? wow, does that work? That's amazing! How about the http://? I can leave it out? OMG! -Original Message- From: Jonathan Baldwin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:12 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Fixed Width Design I agree. I've long advocated easy to remember URLs because, although most of us do as Gary says and get URLs directly from email, I've observed that a *lot* of users don't know that they can copy URLs from the browser so type them out when passing them on, or do it verbally, so it is important to have easy to remember URLs and to ensure that content is easily accessible from the top of the site. An easy to type URL is more likely to be passed on by people e.g. saying something like: I saw a great article at zeldman dot com, just go to the 'articles' section and look for 'standards' is, in my experience, how most people pass on URLs... On a related note, when will people stop saying dot and slash? Can't we move forward and instead of announcers after TV programmes saying wwwDOTbbcDOTcoDOTukDORWARDSLASHeastenders just www (very short pause) bbc (very short pause)co(very short pause)uk slash eastenders, using the punctuation like puncttuation. Wouldn't that work if it were adopted as a convention? It's make URLs easy to remember.(in fact we could drop the www like we dropped the httpcolonslashslash See Malcom Gladwell's Tipping Point for an excellent discussion of The Stickiness Factor - there are lessons throughout the whole book for designers and web site creators. On 11 Dec 2003, at 23:37, Taco Fleur wrote: http://www.notestips.com/articles/2003/1/ or http://www.notestips.com/articles/limitPageWidth Would have been better. Is this something for Standards or out of scope? * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
[WSG] Hiding LEGEND in Netscape 4
I'm developing an accessible form template that uses fieldsets. I'm hiding the legend
using display:none so it doesn't appear, which keeps the form accessible. Problem is
that the legend still displays in Netscape 4, but I thought display:none was supported?
e.g.
legend class=legDefaultTitle/legend
class is
legDefault { default: none; }
Any ideas why this wouldn't work in NS4?
Cheers,
Miles.
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RE: [WSG] Hiding LEGEND in Netscape 4
before you say it, yes, i did actually use a . in the declaration, e.g.
legDefault { default: none; }
-Original Message-
From: Miles Tillinger
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 12:42 PM
To: Web Standards Group (E-mail)
Subject: [WSG] Hiding LEGEND in Netscape 4
I'm developing an accessible form template that uses fieldsets. I'm hiding the legend
using display:none so it doesn't appear, which keeps the form accessible. Problem is
that the legend still displays in Netscape 4, but I thought display:none was supported?
e.g.
legend class=legDefaultTitle/legend
class is
legDefault { default: none; }
Any ideas why this wouldn't work in NS4?
Cheers,
Miles.
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RE: [WSG] Hiding LEGEND in Netscape 4
DOH, I did a fantastic job of writing this email! Let me try again:
legend class=legDefaultTitle/legend
legDefault { display: none; }
This works fine in IE4+ and Mozilla flavours. But not NS4...
-Original Message-
From: russ weakley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 12:45 PM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: Re: [WSG] Hiding LEGEND in Netscape 4
Try:
display: none;
I'm developing an accessible form template that uses fieldsets. I'm hiding
the legend using display:none so it doesn't appear, which keeps the form
accessible. Problem is that the legend still displays in Netscape 4, but I
thought display:none was supported?
e.g.
legend class=legDefaultTitle/legend
class is
legDefault { default: none; }
Any ideas why this wouldn't work in NS4?
Cheers,
Miles.
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Thanks
Russ
---
Russ Weakley
Max Design
Phone: (02) 9410 2521
Mobile: 0403 433 980
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.maxdesign.com.au
---
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RE: [WSG] Small bug
Title: Small bug The confidentiality issue would be a problem for many ppl who want help on this list. But its a bit of an annoyance to strip all the identifying logo's and text from a design so I can safely post the URL to this list... -Original Message-From: Universal Head [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 11:08 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [WSG] Small bug A small bug I can't seem to track down: http://universalhead.com/clients/jands/ There's padding around the nav links that only appears in Mozilla and I can't seem to work out why ... Much obliged y'all. Hey, and work in progress exhibited on this list is confidential, right? Peter-- peter gifforduniversal head design that worksvisit 7/43 bridge road stanmore nsw 2048 australiacall (+612) 9517 1466fax (+612) 9565 4747email [EMAIL PROTECTED]site www.universalhead.com
RE: [WSG] Subject headings (was: ?)
oh man, I'm such a luser! Good stuff though, at least now I understand why I get ignored a lot... mt. -Original Message- From: Ben Bishop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 1:45 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Subject headings (was: ?) Taco Fleur wrote: I am having a bit of a blond day, so blond I can't even think of a subject for this email. Hi Taco, If you're stuck for a subject header, this great resource, found by following links from a recently posted link by Mark Stanton, has a good section on writing effective, meaningful and specific subject headers. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html Regards, Ben * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] big trouble...still!
If the css is in a linked file, change the filename to prevent users getting the cached version. -Original Message- From: Chris Blown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 1:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] big trouble...still! This may be a caching issue. I tried it here and its OK on IE v6 ChrisB On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 13:38, stuart wrote: Received and e-mail today regarding the unexpected crashing of this page *still* http://www.weddingphotography.com.au/prices/index.htm * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
[WSG] OT: damn I feel old
There is really no other way of finding this out other than posting to the list, so here goes some OT goodness: A couple of 'youngsters' posted today, one 17 (from Plone.org) and one 16, both must be pretty competent web designers from the links they've posted, especially Plone, i love what they do! Made me feel a bit long in the tooth at 27, so I started wondering how old you gurus are? Would be good to get an idea of where we sit demographically... p.s. if you don't want to post your age on the list, feel free to email me direct if you really want to be part of my little survey... Regards, Miles. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] Table style definition lists
That's kinda risky though if the content is dynamic because one long line could break the layout. I try to avoid using nowrap's or non-breaking spaces wherever possible. Just my $0.02... MT -Original Message- From: James Ellis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 4:05 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Table style definition lists off the top of my head white-space :pre; /* possibly nowrap or whatever the other one is */ on the long term 1 will force it to be rendered in a line - I use this when I don't want lines broken. Cheers James Mark Stanton wrote: Hey All If anyone has a few minutes and a couple of spare brain cells I'd appreciate some help with a definition list problem in IE6. I guess the reference point is Russ's demo at: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/definition/dl-table-display.html. The example works fine unless you end up with two lines of text on the left hand side - then things go pear shaped. ------ Term 1 Def 1 ------ Term 2 Def 2 ------ Term 3 Def 3 ------ That's all fine but in IE6 you can end up with the following when you have a long term. ------ Long Term Def 1 1 --- ---Def 2 Term 2 --- ---Def 3 Term 3 --- --- Does anyone have any ideas of how this can be fixed up. I'd imagine having a clear:both on the dt would clear things up but it doesn't. Looks great in Firefox though :) Cheers Mark -- Mark Stanton Technical Director Gruden Pty Ltd Tel: 9956 6388 Mob: 0410 458 201 Fax: 9956 8433 http://www.gruden.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] SimpleBits ripped - is this for real?
yeah that is just ridiculously blatant and so comical with his copyright notices at the bottom! No 'permission given' information anywhere, be it the About page or at least some commenting in the HTML or CSS! I can accept that sometimes designers see a CSS layout that they want to base their site on, probably because I personally borrowed heavily from someones zengarden entry that I really really liked the look of, but I asked permission before I even started on it and even then you'd barely recognise it from the original. I just wanted to use it as a good starting point to work from and it taught me a lot of little tricks that I had no idea about! But ranada.com is just a blatant attempt at making him/her self look like some kind of uber-css wizard by completely copying someone elses design! Times like these I think a site hacking is an acceptable option... M. -Original Message- From: Chris Blown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 11:28 AM To: WSG Subject: [WSG] SimpleBits ripped - is this for real? I cannot not believe this.. How can someone be so dumb and lazy to do such a blatant rip off. Is this for real? I just had to post this, it boils my blood to see this sort of thing! http://www.simplebits.com/ http://ranada.com/home.xhtml Cheers Chris Blown http://hinterlands.com.au * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] New CSS site
Nice one yetagain Peter! All of your recent sites have been a pleasure to look at and the simple yet beautiful designs are the perfect partner for table-less layouts... Miles. -Original Message-From: Universal Head [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:20 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [WSG] New CSS site Hi all Just about to be officially announced, my new fully CSS/XHTML 1.0 Trans site, and the smoothest experience I've had with css so far: http://www.cinema4duser.com Comments and crits most welcome. Peter Universal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
[WSG] [OT] Outlook error: Can't open this item. Your Digital ID name ... etc
Firstly, apologies for the OT repost and I'm not even sure if anyone else worries about this, but... First list member I started having the problem with was Mark Stanton back in January, now James Silva and Gary Greer as well (and another one-off from Dominique something or other). I'm using MS Outlook 2000 SP3 on XP Pro. I can't open the above member's emails to the list, I get the following error: 'Can't open this item. Your Digital ID name can not be found by the underlying security system' I know from this previous reply: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg01806.html that others on the list are having the same problem. I can understand completely that the guys will occasionally neglect to remove the sig that causes the problem, so is there anything I can do at my end so I don't have to ponder what wonderfully enlightening web standards conversations I'm missing out on? ;) Cheers, MT error.GIF attachment: error.GIF
[WSG] best method for columns inside a column
Finally a chance for my first attempt at a 100% CSS positioning site and besides using the deprecated align parameter for an input:image, the site validates ok! http://streetdaddy.gotdns.com/astute/index.html http://streetdaddy.gotdns.com/astute/main.css http://streetdaddy.gotdns.com/astute/astute.css (sorry if the dyndns is borked, try 150.101.34.189 temporarily if it is) Its a simple header two-columns footer layout based on a layout-o-matic template. I then use absolute positioning to float the #feature div to the right of the #services div, however the correct top left values seem to differ between IE and Mozilla/Opera. I've managed to get it basically perfect in IE6, but there is small 2-3 pixel discrepancy in Mozilla and Opera (haven't had a chance to check on Safari yet *shudder*) down the left side of the right column. I'm guessing that its to do with how I've made the columns inside a column layout, but I can't work out a better way to do it. Is what I am trying to do not suited to CSS positioning? Or is there a better way to do it? Cheers, MT * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] New site - looking for feedback
Very nice indeed James, thanks for passing me the links otherwise I would've missed out on seeing it... The first word bold, second word normal thing seems to be gaining momentum amongst the various CSS sites I've seen lately, understandably as it is a nice effect for titles. The first thing I though was 'oooh, how did he get the Go buttons to align so nicely with the form fields?', coz I had been trying to do it without resorting to a table or the deprecated align=absmiddle parameter. Then I realised you're using images which gets around the problem, however this will eventually become an accessibility issue as the only way to submit the forms will be via href=javascript:submit() on the image, no good for screen readers. As soon as you replace the img with input type=image I'm pretty sure you'll have the same alignment issues I had. If anyone knows of a solution for this I'd love to know! That's that only thing I could find in what is an aesthetically pleasing design that is a credit to the WSG. Maybe it's time for a WSG Member's portfolio? MT. -Original Message- From: Ben Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:53 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] New site - looking for feedback pretty slick, I like it.. - with a few little coding tweaks you could probably eliminate most of your CSS IE width hacks. - Rollover colours on top nav could have more contrast - difficult to read dark on dark.. - It seems weird to me that the underline disappears on mouseover of regular links.. well done. B * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] best method for columns inside a column
On Tuesday, March 30, 2004, at 03:57 PM, Miles Tillinger wrote: I've managed to get it basically perfect in IE6, but there is small 2-3 pixel discrepancy in Mozilla and Opera (haven't had a chance to check on Safari yet *shudder*) down the left side of the right column. I'm guessing that its to do with how I've made the columns inside a column layout, but I can't work out a better way to do it. You're worried about 2-3 pixels? I wouldn't be, unless it looks awful, just aim for close and visually balanced rather than pixel perfect. I agree and I'm happy with where it's at now. It definitely doesn't look awful, in fact a few ppl that've seen the site didn't notice it, although they aren't hunting for it like we would! Furthermore, I'd suggest that Safari, Mozilla, Opera et al are correct and IE is 2-3 pixels out, not the other way around :) Yeah it's certainly IE that is being silly as I've measured the pixels. FWIW, it renders the same in Safari and Opera 7.5Beta on Mac OS X. Thanks for the OSX check, that makes me feel better! Is what I am trying to do not suited to CSS positioning? Or is there a better way to do it? Seems perfect to me -- you should be able to almost achieve everything (and then some) with CSS layout that you used to with tables, with the exception of tabular data, which should remain in tables. MT. --- Justin French http://indent.com.au * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] best method for columns inside a column
Sorry no answer to the problem... But your services div has a margin left of 197 and your splitter one has a margin left of 200. The splitter seems to be pushing out as well in ie5.0, im not sure why that is. Probably the width of the feature or services div becomes smaller in ie5 and so its out of whack. That was the smoking ears problem I had, trying to make small changes to pixel values to get it to line up in different browsers. I will take a look at the IE5 issue. Also with regards to your box model hacks, if you haven't used a left or right padding/margin, ie5 and 6 should read the width as the same non? So no need to use the hack? Or does ie5 put some stupid 2 pixel space in for some reason? I think the hacks were in there from the layout-o-matic template. I'm yet to try removing them. How come you decided to use float and abosolute positioning? I would have thought to only use one or the other, not together. It is sitting within the main div already so would float: right take care of the positioning using a specific margin and width? Or does it break the layout? When I first tried that method it worked ok but removing the float right broke the layout. However it changed a fair bit after that so working backwards a bit may help solve the problem. Site looks awesome btw, shadows are nicely done imo. Thanks for the suggestions, I'll try them out :) MT. Tim Hill Computer Associates Graphic Artist tel: +612 9937 0792 fax: +612 9937 0546 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Miles Tillinger Sent: Tuesday, 30 March 2004 3:57 PM To: Web Standards Group (E-mail) Subject: [WSG] best method for columns inside a column Finally a chance for my first attempt at a 100% CSS positioning site and besides using the deprecated align parameter for an input:image, the site validates ok! http://streetdaddy.gotdns.com/astute/index.html http://streetdaddy.gotdns.com/astute/main.css http://streetdaddy.gotdns.com/astute/astute.css (sorry if the dyndns is borked, try 150.101.34.189 temporarily if it is) Its a simple header two-columns footer layout based on a layout-o-matic template. I then use absolute positioning to float the #feature div to the right of the #services div, however the correct top left values seem to differ between IE and Mozilla/Opera. I've managed to get it basically perfect in IE6, but there is small 2-3 pixel discrepancy in Mozilla and Opera (haven't had a chance to check on Safari yet *shudder*) down the left side of the right column. I'm guessing that its to do with how I've made the columns inside a column layout, but I can't work out a better way to do it. Is what I am trying to do not suited to CSS positioning? Or is there a better way to do it? Cheers, MT * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Browser testing across Windows OS's
Hi all, I'm working on improving the site testing procedures here at work. I'm trying to gauge the need to test browsers on the different Windows (and other) OS's. I'm using the standalone IE's under Windows XP and I'm wondering if the IE5.5 standalone is behaving exactly the same as an integrated IE5.5 installation on Windows 2000, ME or 98(SE)? E.g. Are there any HTML, Javascript or CSS bugs that are present in IE5.5 Win2k, but not IE5.5 WinXP? Same question for Netscape, Mozilla and other browsers. Are they mostly identical across the various OS's they support? Evolt.org's testing chart only includes Windows, not the individual versions (http://evolt.org/article/Browser_testing_list/20/548/index.html looks rather old). Nor does it talk about different versions of MacOS. Do WSG members consider this sufficient testing strategy? I understand this is probably going to be very different from one organisation to another but there has to be a baseline at least! I'm keen to hear some opinions and get some good resources on this to hopefully get an idea of how far I need to take our testing strategy. Thanks in advance, Miles. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] centering an element
and then in finding the quirksmode url I found this! http://vmalek.murphy.cz/ Has anyone discovered any issues with this method? -Original Message- From: glenn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 11:35 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] centering an element i am trying to center an element in the middle of the screen using css... when the browser resizes it moves into the new middle. with tables i simple make a table 100% height and width. then put a fixed width table inside it with postition set to centre i can only find info on centering columns thank you * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] centering an element
www.quirksmode.org/css/centering.html seems that you need to use a table if you want vertical alignment that is consistent across recent browsers. I haven't been able to do it without using a table either... HTH. -Original Message- From: glenn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 11:35 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] centering an element i am trying to center an element in the middle of the screen using css... when the browser resizes it moves into the new middle. with tables i simple make a table 100% height and width. then put a fixed width table inside it with postition set to centre i can only find info on centering columns thank you * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary?
My short answer: A uni degree is more than just a piece of paper, its a statement that you were determined and dedicated enought to finish what you'd started. I dropped out in 3rd of 4 years and even though it hasn't affected me yet, I worry that I'll be wishing I had finished it when I apply for higher paid positions in future. My long answer: If you have 3 hours free to read my rant below you might make some sense of it. After reading it myself I'm thinking that I just really needed to VENT! RANT ALERT! I don't think anyone would argue that you'll get a better 'education' working in the real world, compared to learning in University. Well, maybe some would argue? When I was still Uni about 5 years ago they were just starting to create courses that catered for the emergence ecommerce. The course I was already in was a CS/Multimedia degree with little to no real web stuff at all. We did do some flash and shockwave stuff but I was more interested in data driven applications. I was already playing around designing websites and basic database driven PHP applications and I was pretty sure that I was never going to be taught about Apache, PHP, HTML or advanced CSS at uni. So far (in 3rd year) we'd spent about 2 weeks on web site development, and that involved building a basic page in Netscape Composer of all things! That said, i think the CS subjects gave me invaluable knowledge about the basics of programming and I'd probably be a much worse coder than I am if not for that basic training. It just got to a point where I wanted to go in a direction that uni just wasn't gonna cater for... Like many of my friends I got a part-time IT job to compliment my full-time uni. After about 3 months into 2nd year it swapped to full-time IT job (VB Programmer, YUCK) and part-time uni. So 5 years later and I've got a year of full-time study left to finish the degree, but I definitely think that real-world IT experience is of greater value to employers. I've now got about 7 years of experience plus a 66% completed CS degree and plenty of respect from my peers. A lot of my uni friends who opted to stick out uni and get the degree are still looking for a good IT job (tech support for an ISP is not what I would consider a positive outcome after 4 years of uni). That said, I think its a different decision for everyone. I think the thing I have going for me in the real-world of IT is that I didn't just do a CS degree coz I couldn't decide what to do. I did it coz I was a fricken website making, game-playing, warez leeching, IRC chatting NERD and I thought i'd need a degree to get my foot in the door. Turns out that my enthusiasm was my most powerful weapon! I continue to keep up with all the latest internet technologies in my own personal time because that's what I love. I'm probably nothing compared to some of the guys on this list who are constantly pushing the boundaries and trying to invent a better wheel. Basically I think if you love the internet and everything IT in general then ppl will notice. You'll also be 'studying' on a daily basis, however for you it will be disguised as FUN! Geez, I don't even know if I made a point here but perhaps something I said will help you with your decision. Just get a job in IT first and see if you cut it... Probably a little more than my $0.02... I'm now very interested to see other members replies! Mt. -Original Message- From: Gabriel Vasquez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? Hi Everyone, I apologize if this is off topic but this is one of the few places that I would be able to talk to web designers and get their opinions on this. I've been attending school to get an Associates degree in Digital Media. The program is 18 months and ranges from html to 3d graphics. I'm already more than halfway through my courses, but I find that I hit a road block; I'm not really learning anything. We are just now getting into *basic* css, and javascript in dreamweaver (which I already know how to do, even though I prefer to hand-code). The program is now focusing on 3D animation but that's really not what I'm into at all. I just want to do web design: xhtml, css, ECMAScript/DOM, etc. -- no more, no less. I don't feel I should spend the money for something I'm not getting anything out of. My question to you is this: Do you think it would be wise for me to finish the program and get the degree even though I'm not learning what I want to be learning, or should I just call it off and focus on web design? TIA in advanced for your feedback! Gabriel * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help
RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary?
Having the degree is one thing, but enjoying what you do is another thing completely. I don't think you'll find many ppl who are successful at what they do but totally hate doingit... If you get into an IT job before you finish then you'll havea headstart on everyone else. -Original Message-From: Hill, Tim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 4:47 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? eheheh 'before computers were used in design' sounds really old sorry =) I think having a degree is alot better than just having a portfolio. I guess its really what you put in, is what you get out. Like you could still do a degree and just do the bare minimum just keeping up, not putting in any real work, and then wow you have the degree but not an awful lot of experience. 3D might help you out later on, or can you ask to take different subjects perhaps? Tim HillComputer AssociatesGraphic Artisttel: +612 9937 0792fax: +612 9937 0546[EMAIL PROTECTED] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Universal HeadSent: Thursday, 13 May 2004 5:01 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [WSG] Is a degree necessary? Maybe you should look into design education. It sounds like the course you are doing is very technology based. Of course if you want to code, that's fine. But if you want to communicate visually, and understand how to present information using space, type, colour, relationships etc, then that's a whole different ballgame. It was a long time ago, but I did four years of design education before computers were used in design, and I learnt things that seemed very general at the time, but I realise now were a perfect grounding for a design career. It seems that courses now are so eager to get people into using Maya or learning _javascript_ or whatever that they don't actually teach the basics. Man, I really sound like an old fogey don't I? Peter On 13/05/2004, at 4:38 PM, Gabriel Vasquez wrote: Hi Everyone, I apologize if this is off topic but this is one of the few places that I would be able to talk to web designers and get their opinions on this. I've been attending school to get an Associates degree in Digital Media. The program is 18 months and ranges from html to 3d graphics. I'm already more than halfway through my courses, but I find that I hit a road block; I'm not really learning anything. We are just now getting into *basic* css, and _javascript_ in dreamweaver (which I already know how to do, even though I prefer to hand-code). The program is now focusing on 3D animation but that's really not what I'm into at all. I just want to do web design: xhtml, css, ECMAScript/DOM, etc. -- no more, no less. I don't feel I should spend the money for something I'm not getting anything out of. My question to you is this: Do you think it would be wise for me to finish the program and get the degree even though I'm not learning what I want to be learning, or should I just call it off and focus on web design? TIA in advanced for your feedback! Gabriel * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * Universal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
RE: [WSG] reply from ACA
Seems like they glazed over when reading the accessibility information in your original email. This is all to familiar for me as there are ppl you can explain the benefits of standardsto 10x a day and they still forget what it all means by the next day... In most cases if it's a small site then the person maintaining it is probably not very web-savvy and probably knows little or nothing of the HTML/CSS that formats the site behind the scenes. As long as they can publish content with Frontpage then that's all they'll ever want... -Original Message-From: Universal Head [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 2:04 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [WSG] reply from ACA You all might be interested in the reply I received from the ACA in response to my email. I leave it to speak for itself. Peter On 07/05/2004, at 2:21 PM, WebMaster wrote: Dear Mr Gifford, Pleqase accept my apologies for the delay in respond to your email. We are aware of some issues with the use of the ACA Website and Apple operating systemsand are currently working on a fix to the solution. Unfortunately this would appear not to be a simple solution and therefore may take some time. As I'm sure you can appreciate maintaining a site that renders well in all browser and operating systems is a constant battle for the ACA, however we do endeavour to provide equal access to all users. It may be of some benefit for you to access our site map at (http://www.aca.gov.au/help/sitemap.htm), which will provide you with static html links to all pages. Regards Sheila Grant Web Administrator Information Management Team Australian Communications Authority Universal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com
RE: [WSG] Australian Communications Authority
Three cheers for Web Standards evangelism! Kudos for making the effort to spread the gospel, but I don't know if I agree with the approach. Fair enough that you'd like to win the job, but the end of the email starts sounding like marketing spam. A political approach might be more effective for getting them to think about it because the last thing any government department wants to think about is more costs and they could be to short-sighted to consider the long-term gains... Just my $0.02... Mt. -Original Message- From: Universal Head [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 3:59 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Australian Communications Authority Just came across this thread and by coincidence I had been told about the site and tossed off this email to them: --- I thought I would take the time to make you aware of some problems with your website. The site does not communicate to Mac users at all. In Safari 2, the most common MacOSX browser, none of the navigation bars (left or top) appear at all. On IE5, the most common browser for MacOS9 users, navigating to your site brings up a page of code - no site. On Mozilla, a common open source browser recommended as the best browser available in last week's Sydney Morning Herald, the navigation also does not work. These problems would be serious for any website, but for the Australian Communications Authority I would have thought they were disastrous. If you are interested I can make recommendations on how to make your site standards compliant across the entire range of browsers, with simple xhtml and css coding. The Sydney Morning Herald (www.smh.com.au) and The Age (www.theage.com.au) have recently converted their sites to this approach, which is widely recognised as the future of the web. You can cut the size of your pages in half (faster site loads and less server demand) and make the site compatible to ALL users, not just a percentage. My company, Universal Head, has ten years experience in design and specialises in online communications. I would be happy to discuss the possibilities with you further. Best regards Peter Gifford --- On 02/05/2004, at 6:41 PM, Rob Unsworth wrote: An official press release from the Web Standards Group would carry more weight than an individual. Written by someone with better journalistic skills that yours truly. Universal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Aligning two DIVs horizontally
I thought this would be simple but it's making me feel a bit useless! I'm simply trying to align two DIVs horizontally for the Search form : http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/test.html http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/domainname.css The div with submit button (green border) always gets stacked vertically under the div with the textfield (red border) but I want it to be aligned with the textfield and select list. I originally had the whole form in one div however differences in the size of form elements made some small pixel differences between browsers. Pixel perfect isn't necessary, however I'm sure there must be a simple way to align the two divs! Am I even close? Regards, Miles Tillinger Web Developer education.au limited 178 Fullarton Road Dulwich SA 5065 Ph. (08) 8334 3247 Fax. (08) 8334 3211 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please visit our websites: http://www.edna.edu.au/ http://www.educationau.edu.au/ Building and managing online information services and knowledge networks * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Aligning two DIVs horizontally
I've tried floating them both left, both right, one left/one right, and in all cases the right div drops down a line. -Original Message- From: Hill, Tim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 11:06 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Aligning two DIVs horizontally Could you float both perhaps? Or would that not work? The divs would need to be the same height I guess though. Tim Hill Computer Associates Graphic Artist tel: +612 9937 0792 fax: +612 9937 0546 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Miles Tillinger Sent: Friday, 30 April 2004 11:24 AM To: Web Standards Group (E-mail) Subject: [WSG] Aligning two DIVs horizontally I thought this would be simple but it's making me feel a bit useless! I'm simply trying to align two DIVs horizontally for the Search form : http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/test.html http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/domainname.css The div with submit button (green border) always gets stacked vertically under the div with the textfield (red border) but I want it to be aligned with the textfield and select list. I originally had the whole form in one div however differences in the size of form elements made some small pixel differences between browsers. Pixel perfect isn't necessary, however I'm sure there must be a simple way to align the two divs! Am I even close? Regards, Miles Tillinger Web Developer education.au limited 178 Fullarton Road Dulwich SA 5065 Ph. (08) 8334 3247 Fax. (08) 8334 3211 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please visit our websites: http://www.edna.edu.au/ http://www.educationau.edu.au/ Building and managing online information services and knowledge networks * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Aligning two DIVs horizontally
Its now lined up ok and I increased the size of the submit image to fill the space.
Looks ok in IE as well, until I stuff something else further down the page...
Thanks Tim and Lachlan for the advice :)
Miles.
-Original Message-
From: Lachlan Hardy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 12:16 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Aligning two DIVs horizontally
I thought this would be simple but it's making me feel a bit useless!
I'm simply trying to align two DIVs horizontally for the
Search form :
http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/test.html
http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/domainname.css
The div with submit button (green border) always gets stacked
vertically
under the div with the textfield (red border) but I want it to be
aligned with the textfield and select list. I originally had
the whole
form in one div however differences in the size of form
elements made
some small pixel differences between browsers. Pixel perfect isn't
necessary, however I'm sure there must be a simple way to
align the two
divs!
Am I even close?
Yep. Basically, just remove the margin and float #field
#field {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
float:left;
border: 1px solid #F00;
height: 25px;
}
#submit {
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
float:right;
border: 1px solid #0F0;
height: 25px;
}
As suggested by Tim Hall, I also made the divs the same
height. Then all you
need to do is centre your #submit image vertically (I didn't
bother messing
with your HTML, but you can obviously do that fairly easily)
And, because floating both divs removes them from the
document flow, you
need to add some height to your #search div
#search {
background: url(images/search_bar_bg.gif) #009A00 repeat-y
top left;
margin: 0;
padding: 14px 0 14px 40px;
height: 30px;
}
My fiddling was done via the EditCSS plug-in for Firefox, so
results may
differ for other browsers
Cheers,
Lachlan
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RE: [WSG] Org Charts
It might be difficult and ultimately an unwieldy waste of effort, however charts aren't really a picture. The objects are visually simple being either boxes or lines. I guess that's why I'm trying to style HTML generated from XML topic maps and XSLT, but the output gets so complicated that it's as inaccessible as flash anyway. Just thinking about it makes my brain hurt... Mt. -Original Message- From: Geoff Bowers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 12:27 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Org Charts Miles Tillinger wrote: How well does the solution degrade for older browser and screen readers? I'm trying to come up with a topic mapping solution that degrades nicely. It's to replace an existing Flash-based topic structure, however solutions seem to be just as inaccessible as Flash anyway? The difficult bit to represent is the lines linking the objects. If I could represent it all in text it'd be no problems, but that seems to be a distant dream... I think older browser and screen readers are not relevant in this context. Organisation charts are by their very nature data-visualisations. I think the age old adage, a picture tells a thousand words is the very definition of the problem represented. -- geoff http://www.daemon.com.au/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] IE mystery whitespace
I've found a few references to mystery whitespace in IE but they're all related to space above and below elements. I've got mystery whitespace on the left of an element. In exhibit A in IE, the image (blue border) has a 3px gap on the left between it and the paragraph (red border). Firefox has no gap. In exhibit B I've removed the left paragraph (solid grey border) and the 3px gap is gone. I can't work out where the mystery space is coming from? I've tried removing whitespace in the HTML but that didn't help. http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/test.html http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/domainname.css Any ideas how I can get IE to play nice? Mt. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Mozilla and lack of URL wrapping
IE6 wraps long URL's at spaces ( ), hyphens (-), question marks (?) and percent signs (%), whereas Mozilla doesn't wrap unbroken strings at all. In the crazy world of CMS's and unpredictable 'cowboy' content editors this can be a bit of a problem for multi-column portal sites. Is there any way to make Mozilla play nice without resorting to a server-side solution? Mt. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] Definition list formatting problem in IE
Surprise! A formatting problem in IE... In IE5+ and Opera, the second dd, which contains the Category links, is jumping up and floating to the right of the first dd with the URL. It displays fine in Firefox and Netscape 7. html/css is at http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/index2.html Thanks in advance, Miles. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Definition list formatting problem in IE
Update! Added width: 50em; to dd and it stopped it from floating to the right. But now the dd wraps at a fixed width! I want it to go 100% but it won't play ball... Mt. -Original Message- From: Miles Tillinger Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 3:26 PM To: Web Standards Group (E-mail) Subject: [WSG] Definition list formatting problem in IE Surprise! A formatting problem in IE... In IE5+ and Opera, the second dd, which contains the Category links, is jumping up and floating to the right of the first dd with the URL. It displays fine in Firefox and Netscape 7. html/css is at http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/index2.html Thanks in advance, Miles. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Definition list formatting problem in IE
It would appear not... :) Thanks Patrick, worked a treat!
-Original Message-
From: P.H.Lauke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 8:30 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Definition list formatting problem in IE
Have you tried *not* floating the dd?
#apiresults dt
{
width: 8em;
float: left;
clear: left;
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
font-weight: normal;
}
#apiresults dd
{
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
}
Should be enough.
Patrick
-Original Message-
From: Miles Tillinger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 27 May 2004 08:09
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [WSG] Definition list formatting problem in IE
Update!
Added width: 50em; to dd and it stopped it from floating to
the right. But now the dd wraps at a fixed width! I want it
to go 100% but it won't play ball...
Mt.
-Original Message-
From: Miles Tillinger
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 3:26 PM
To: Web Standards Group (E-mail)
Subject: [WSG] Definition list formatting problem in IE
Surprise! A formatting problem in IE...
In IE5+ and Opera, the second dd, which contains the Category
links, is jumping up and floating to the right of the first
dd with the URL. It displays fine in Firefox and Netscape 7.
html/css is at http://www.streetdaddy.com/wsg/index2.html
Thanks in advance,
Miles.
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*
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*
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RE: [WSG] new to the list
Because you've declared XHTML doctype for your page (see first line of your code) you need to use parameter=value pairs in all cases. So for valid XHTML you'd need option value=# selected=selectedSelect a page/option For more XHTML syntax rules see http://www.w3schools.com/xhtml/xhtml_syntax.asp If you don't really need to use XHTML then just use HTML doctype and you won't need the pairs. HTH. -Original Message- From: Marie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 10:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] new to the list I'm having an issue with a drop-down menu on my page. When I run my validator it comes up with this message I'm not sure how to fix it - can someone help please? The page is here - http://marie-str.com/faeries/tester.html This is the line of code I'm referring to - option value=# selectedSelect a page/option and this is the message I get - The attribute selected does not have a value. All attributes must have a value. This is required for XHTML/XML documents or if the option to require attribute values is enabled. Marie ~aka~ Vanille About Certified XHTML Developer Level 1 Vanille's Place - http://marie-str.com Technicolour Rainbow - http://techrain.ca the FlipSide - http://the-flipside.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] www.seoed.com - Please review
I think the design is great, very clean and easy to read. My only thought as far as standards go is that for the title 'SEOed.com' you could use: h1span class=oneSeo/spanspan class=oneed/spanspan class=one.com/span/h1 instead of an image and format the text with CSS, using some spans to create the desired effect. Just my $0.02... Mt. -Original Message- From: Razvan Pop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 1:18 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] www.seoed.com - Please review Hello. http://www.seoed.com/ Please take a look at my site and tell me what you think. :) I would like some more opinions regarding usability and accessibility. I look forward for your feedback. Site in 90% finished. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] How to Make Your Web Site Work with Windows XP Service Pack 2
Hi Neerav, Thanks for the link :) Very useful to know... Just another good reason to build accessible interfaces... I now know a few of my older sites will have problems due to SP2 but I wouldn't have realised if not for those checkpoints! Cheers, Mt. -Original Message- From: Neerav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 10:11 AM To: WSG Subject: [WSG] How to Make Your Web Site Work with Windows XP Service Pack 2 I foresee in my crystal ball a lot of headaches for web developers who use popups Heres something that might help http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en- us/dnwxp/html/xpsp2websites.asp -- Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy Mobile: +61 403 8000 27 * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] What CMSs are Developers Using
I'm using Jahia CMS at work (www.jahia.org), however commercial license is pricey. Jahia allows you to develop templates from scratch so the site and content can be as standard as you want to make it. The admin and content management interface would not be classed as standards-based or accessible but if you really needed to, say if Content Editors would be using assistive technologies, you could go through the source and fix it up. Mt. -Original Message- From: Geoff Deering [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 3:27 PM To: WebStandardsGroup Subject: [WSG] What CMSs are Developers Using Hi, Can I ask what commercial and/or open source CMSs developers on this list use, which ones they prefer, ones they don't like (and for what reasons). I am asking from the point of view of providing clients with easy to use interfaces, whilst maintaining standards based markup? Is anyone using Apache/Cocoon/Lenya, Apache/AxKit or Forrest? Regards Geoff Deering * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
RE: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox?
That's not the first vulnerability to be found in Firefox and whilst it may be ammunition for IE-zealots it's nothing compared to all of the exploits that IE is vulnerable to... As Firefox gains popularity I don't doubt more holes will appear, but that's the price of fame! Mt. -Original Message- From: Amit Karmakar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2004 12:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Why do web developers user Firefox? Although I support firefox this may work against Firefox thought. http://secunia.com/advisories/12160/ On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:29:41 +1200, Peter Asquith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Helen I use Firefox, in combination with Chris Pederick's Web Developer extension (http://www.chrispederick.com/work/firefox/webdeveloper/), as my primary development browser. Firefox renders my markup and CSS as I'd expect it to be rendered, gives me good page information and has a built in DOM inspector. Once the Web Developer toolbar is included it becomes very easy to check on page structure, validation and the like. Opera still has some rendering quirks and a somewhat more cluttered feel. I know this isn't much help for your list but there's a certain je ne sais quoi about Firefox - it just feels right! Cheers Peter --- Peter Asquith http://www.wasabicube.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I'm putting together a list of web development tools and am wondering about the following: Why is the Firefox browser used by Web Developers? What does it have that makes it a good tool? - over other browsers? Why not Opera? Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks *** Helen Rysavy Designer / Webmaster Learning Resources Division Charles Darwin University Northern Territory 0909 Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.cdu.edu.au CRICOS Provider No: 00300K *** * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * -- Regards, Amit Karmakar http://www.karmakars.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain private or confidential information. If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this e-mail or disclose its contents to any other party. This email represents the views of the individual sender, which do not necessarily reflect those of education.au limited except where the sender expressly states otherwise. It is your responsibility to scan this email and any files transmitted with it for viruses or any other defects. education.au limited will not be liable for any loss, damage or consequence caused directly or indirectly by this email. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
[WSG] 4-column layout
Title: 4-column layout I've been able to find a few 4-column CSS layouts but they're all either 4x fixed divs or 4x fluid divs. Before I embark on my own voyage of discovery/pain, is there any examples that allow for a mixture of fluid and fixed divs? I've thought a bit about it and I'm envisaging some major cross-browser issues, but then I'm dumber than most so maybe some clever person has come up with something? Thanks in advance... Mt. IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain private or confidential information. If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this e-mail or disclose its contents to any other party.This email represents the views of the individual sender, which do not necessarily reflect those of education.au limited except where the sender expressly states otherwise.It is your responsibility to scan this email and any files transmitted with it for viruses or any other defects.education.au limited will not be liable for any loss, damage or consequence caused directly or indirectly by this email.
[WSG] Unordered list as Path won't wrap
Hi, I'm trying to represent the path as an unordered list, e.g. Home Level One Level Two Level Three etc. ul liHome/li liLevel One/li liLevel Two/li liLevel Three/li lietc./li /ul However in situations where the path is extremely long the list will not wrap and breaks my layout, so I've had to float the div so it will wrap. This in turn causes problems with the title if the path information goes beyond one line. An example with a long path: http://dev4.newstage.edna.edu.au/aictec/go/pid/128 CSS is at: http://dev4.newstage.edna.edu.au/aictec/jsp/jahia/templates/aictecsite/d efault/styles/aictec.css Any suggestions of a better way to achieve this will be appreciated. I am determined to keep it as a list! Mt. IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain private or confidential information. If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this e-mail or disclose its contents to any other party. This email represents the views of the individual sender, which does not necessarily reflect those of education.au limited except where the sender expressly states otherwise. It is your responsibility to scan this email and any files transmitted with it for viruses or any other defects. education.au limited will not be liable for any loss, damage or consequence caused directly or indirectly by this e-mail. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] IE 5
In regards to the links ppl have given you to the 'Multiple Internet Explorer versions' downloads, you should be aware of the potential issues. There is no evidence either way that says this method is a true representation of older versions of IE and all inherent issues with Javascript, CSS, DOM, etc. Sure it's a great way to quickly check cross-browser compatibility across a few different version of IE, but never forget that the most comprehensive method of testing is to have a proper suite of OS's and browsers available to you, either via multiple PC's or one PC with Virtual OS's. If you have the time and the money then your final product should be put through a proper test suite before going to production, don't rely on 'hacks'. Mt. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 4 January 2005 9:11 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] IE 5 Hi All, I hope this isn't OT, but I want to test my sites on various browsers and versions to ensure their compliancy, which I'm assuming is standards related. I currently have IE 6.0, NN 7.0, FF 1.0 and Mozilla 1.6 I downloaded IE version 5.0 from your Evolt's browser archive, and wanted to ensure that initiating the setup wouldn't cause problems with my current OS or browser configuration. I'm currently running Windows XP Home Edition, and I recieve the following message when I launch the setup application: The Windows Update: Internet Explorer and Internet Tools files on your computer are not the correct files for your operating system. Setup will download the correct files from the Internet. I know many of you are running IE 5, and wondered if you had encountered any problems running multiple versions? Any advice you can provide ragarding this matter would be greatly appreciated. Respectfully yours, Mario S. Cisneros, President WebNet Design Studios, LLC ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Has news.com.au redesigned to Standards?
A lot less tables than before 8D but plenty of validation errors... It scares me to think of how difficult it would be to keep all of the content compliant when there's so much 3rd party shite plugged into every page. Definitely a step in the right direction, thumbs up! Mt. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 24 January 2005 9:07 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Has news.com.au redesigned to Standards? http://www.news.com.au/ I had a pleasant surprise this morning when I saw this redesign. Good to see another big site making the effort. Cheers *** Helen Rysavy Web Designer, Teaching Learning Development Charles Darwin University, Northern Territory 0909 Tel: 8946 7779 Mobile: 0403 290 842 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.cdu.edu.au CRICOS Provider No: 00300K *** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain private or confidential information. If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this e-mail or disclose its contents to any other party. This email represents the views of the individual sender, which does not necessarily reflect those of education.au limited except where the sender expressly states otherwise. It is your responsibility to scan this email and any files transmitted with it for viruses or any other defects. education.au limited will not be liable for any loss, damage or consequence caused directly or indirectly by this e-mail. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] naughty horizontal unformatted list in OSX IE 5.2 - Mac-addicts needed!
Hi Zachary, I'll take a better look at your link bar and see if I can work out why yours works and my doesn't... thanks :) nb. In my CSS, the LI's are floated left and it doesn't seem to help... Regards, Miles. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zachary Hopkins Sent: Friday, 11 March 2005 10:54 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] naughty horizontal unformatted list in OSX IE 5.2 - Mac-addicts needed! I've got a horizontal link bar on my site, http://www.hopkinsprogramming.net/, it works fine in IE 5 on Mac. Try adding *float:left* to the navigation items. --Zachary Miles Tillinger wrote: Hi all, I've managed to get this horizontal menu working in most browsers that it needs to, but IE 5.2 on OSX is being painful (not surprisingly). The original HTML was provided by another designer who seemed to build standard-compliant sites differently to me so I've changed most of the menus to use unformatted lists. The Top Menu list refuses to go horizontal, instead it just stacks the list items. Also the links don't even work! A nested list is supposed to popup when hovering over 'Components', however I expected that to be a problem. Example page http://career.uat.edna.edu.au/career/Jahia/news CSS http://career.uat.edna.edu.au/styles/acdsScreen.css I'm running out of hair trying to get a nice solution, so before I give in and use a hack to hide the styles from OSX IE 5.2, has anyone been able to fix a similar problem? Regards, Miles Tillinger Senior Technical Officer education.au limited 178 Fullarton Road Dulwich SA 5065 Ph. (08) 8334 3247 Fax. (08) 8334 3211 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please visit our websites: http://www.edna.edu.au/ http://www.educationau.edu.au/ Building and managing online information services and knowledge networks ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- The best way to predict the future is to invent it. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.hopkinsprogramming.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] how to use external fonts with css?
I can't remember for sure, but I think font embedding is an IE only thing... IMHO it's for the best anyway coz I'd hate to try and read a page of content written in some crazy Matrix font or similar! Regards, Miles. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Hopkins Programming Sent: Thursday, 7 April 2005 12:20 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] how to use external fonts with css? I looked into this once. It was a little over my head, but maybe it can help you - http://www.netmechanic.com/news/vol3/css_no15.htm --Zachary On Apr 6, 2005 10:31 AM, tomcask o_o [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will wish to use external fonts (noncommon to pcs, obtained through server by the pagina Web) for my designs with css, somebody knows like doing it? Thanks. -- == The best way to predict the future is to invent it. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.hopkinsprogramming.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain private or confidential information. If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this e-mail or disclose its contents to any other party. This email represents the views of the individual sender, which do not necessarily reflect those of education.au limited except where the sender expressly states otherwise. It is your responsibility to scan this email and any files transmitted with it for viruses or any other defects. education.au limited will not be liable for any loss, damage or consequence caused directly or indirectly by this email. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] 100% width table inside a DIV
Hi, Consider the following example: http://www.streetdaddy.com/temp/index.html http://www.streetdaddy.com/temp/index.css I am developing a site based around this structure, however something in the complicated CSS of my site is causing it to not behave the same as this simple example. The basic problem is that IE5+ is calculating percentage widths based on the viewport rather than its parent element, so the 100% width table goes off screen and the floated inner-columns don't fit next to each other . I have tried and tried to work out why this is happening, to no avail... Can anyone fill me in on the nuances of this annoying problem? Will I need to employ some browser specific hacks? The site im developing is slightly sensitive but if needed I can post up the HTML and CSS for it... Cheers, Miles. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] 100% width table inside a DIV [SOLVED]
SOLVED ... I think! After reading some recenet articles at positioniseverything.net I discovered that one method of fixing the IE bug is to use the double-wrapper method: http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/percentages.html (down the page) Not elegant, but works for me in IE5+. The root cause is that I'm using a fluid 3 column layout in which the centre div does not have a fixed width. Setting a relative width on the centre div also caused problems. So I have another div around the table so it can use it as the parent element: div style=width:100%; table ... /table /div So I can now have the table width set to 100% in CSS without causing any problems. I assume I could also set the table width inline but since that sucks I haven't bothered to confirm it... If there's a better way to do it I'd love to hear about it, but for now it might just help me meet my deadline! Regards, Miles. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Miles Tillinger Sent: Wednesday, 17 August 2005 3:27 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] 100% width table inside a DIV Hi, Consider the following example: http://www.streetdaddy.com/temp/index.html http://www.streetdaddy.com/temp/index.css I am developing a site based around this structure, however something in the complicated CSS of my site is causing it to not behave the same as this simple example. The basic problem is that IE5+ is calculating percentage widths based on the viewport rather than its parent element, so the 100% width table goes off screen and the floated inner-columns don't fit next to each other . I have tried and tried to work out why this is happening, to no avail... Can anyone fill me in on the nuances of this annoying problem? Will I need to employ some browser specific hacks? The site im developing is slightly sensitive but if needed I can post up the HTML and CSS for it... Cheers, Miles. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Friday fun with Suckerfish dropdowns
Has anyone been able to successfully right align the Suckerfish horizontal dropdown menu without defining the width of the container or UL? Preferably would work in Opera and Mac IE5 if possible. I am using the following example: http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/bones/ MT. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] CSS Driven?
Could CSS be used to display that two-column table layout as a single column? Say. for small screen devices like PDA's or XDA's? Seems to be a flaw of table-based layouts and crosses platform-independence off the list... correct me if I'm wrong (I usually am)... Regards, Miles. As for a standards-based page, agreeing that it is not a hard and fast rule that tables be banned for layout, can you present some logical arguments against this page - keeping strictly within the context of standards: http://www.projectseven.com/csslab/zealotry/linear_basics.htm Al Sparber PVII http://www.projectseven.com Designing with CSS is sometimes like barreling down a crumbling mountain road at 90 miles per hour secure in the knowledge that repairs are scheduled for next Tuesday. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] 3 column layout - centre column forced below side columns in IE at low resolution
I recently launched an overhaul of the interface of www.education.gov.au. Its been a bit of a battle trying to get the client to sacrifice things for the sake of accessibility and standards-compliance, not to mention the state of the legacy content and CMS templates, battles still raging anyway , those things aside... There is a problem with the 3-column layout I've implemented. In IE at resolutions around 800x600 and below the centre column is dropping below the left and right floated columns. I know its to do with the animated GIF logo at the top of the centre column and have already made a fix (not in production yet) so the problem doesn't occur at 800x600. What I'm looking for is suggestions of better columnar layout in which rather than the centre column dropping down, columns stay where they should and the browser's horizontal scrollbar appears instead. URL:www.education.gov.au CSS:http://www.education.gov.au/intranet.css http://www.education.gov.au/styles/basic.css http://www.education.gov.au/styles/layout.css http://www.education.gov.au/styles/content.css etc... so many, you're better off using the FF Web Dev extension! Any advice is much appreciated! Regards, Miles. IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain private or confidential information. If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this e-mail or disclose its contents to any other party. This email represents the views of the individual sender, which do not necessarily reflect those of education.au limited except where the sender expressly states otherwise. It is your responsibility to scan this email and any files transmitted with it for viruses or any other defects. education.au limited will not be liable for any loss, damage or consequence caused directly or indirectly by this email. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] new yahoo user interface library
I am in awe! I'm yet to score a commercial excuse to implement an AJAX solution, but I've been playing around with scriptaculousand other frameworks. This offering from Yahoo is just amazing and looks to provide yet more functionality. I'm sure this will be appreciated by everyone who is lucky enough to use it! Thanks, Miles. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted DrakeSent: Wednesday, 15 February 2006 4:28 AMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: [WSG] new yahoo user interface library Hi All As you may know, Yahoo has been hiring some very talented web developers over the past year, not to mention purchasing great companies like flickr and de.licio.us. Now, they have opened that wealth of talent to you for free. Yes, Im pimping my bosses. But seriously, this is really good stuff. Theyve released an open-source platform of standards-based code snippets and best-practices. Many of these are similar to other projects out there. However, Yahoo has taken the time to make sure they scale to millions of hits and pass privacy scrutiny (now stop typing the China related snickering), Im talking about making sure there are no memory leaks or possibly passing along less that secure protocols. Further, the library discusses the JSON data transfer protocol. So, enough of the sales pitch (I had nothing to do with this project.. but I plan on using it!) visit the http://www.yuiblog.com/ yahoo user interface blog and learn how to use these advanced programming techniques. Ted Drake Front-end Engineer Yahoo! Tech IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain private or confidential information. If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this e-mail or disclose its contents to any other party. This email represents the views of the individual sender, which do not necessarily reflect those of education.au limited except where the sender expressly states otherwise. It is your responsibility to scan this email and any files transmitted with it for viruses or any other defects. education.au limited will not be liable for any loss, damage or consequence caused directly or indirectly by this email.
RE: [WSG] AIMIA Awards
I am going to the Awards ceremony at the Adelaide Convention Centre as my work was given some invites. I'm interested to see what sort of role standards has played in the finalists projects and I'll be sure to ask lots of annoying questions if I get the chance! Sifting through the finalists doesn't give much hope, e.g. the non-flash version of the Australia Post Personalised Stamps online (http://www.pstamps.auspost.com.au/) uses javascript includes for the header and footer ... http://www.engagingcommunities2005.org/ doesn't even have alt text on the splash page images (but wait, they've broken up the image for better optimisation! wow, maybe I'm wrong, they're way ahead of the game on that one) ... I could go on... I don't think standards-compliance was a priority! Any other Adelaide WSG'ers going? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kat Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 4:09 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] AIMIA Awards Gday, I find this list filled with dynamic, inspirational people. I come away being motivated and energised. I love youse guys. :) Today, I came across AIMIA (Australian Interactive Media Industry Association - http://www.aimia.com.au/) that are having their 12th Annual AIMIA awards. Is anyone a member of this group? Does anyone know anything about them? Is anyone a finalist? I had a look at some of the finalists and although they seem to require WCAG Priority 1 Accessibility, to reach that, don't your websites need to actually validate (at least some of their finalists don't)? Have I misunderstood? I rather think it's a good idea - but I think it misses a certain something (tableless design, validation, accessibility, etc). There are so many designers/developers on this list (and elsewhere) doing so many amazing things - why don't they ever get recognised for the good things they do? They deserve it more!! Would there be a way to give them the recognition they deserve? Kat ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain private or confidential information. If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this e-mail or disclose its contents to any other party. This email represents the views of the individual sender, which do not necessarily reflect those of education.au limited except where the sender expressly states otherwise. It is your responsibility to scan this email and any files transmitted with it for viruses or any other defects. education.au limited will not be liable for any loss, damage or consequence caused directly or indirectly by this email. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] AIMIA Awards
Further investigation shows that there are a few finalists that have somewhat adhered to standards, but hardly to the level of satisfaction that many WSG regulars would want. I think they're missing a category: BEST ACCESSIBILITY -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kat Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 4:09 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] AIMIA Awards Gday, I find this list filled with dynamic, inspirational people. I come away being motivated and energised. I love youse guys. :) Today, I came across AIMIA (Australian Interactive Media Industry Association - http://www.aimia.com.au/) that are having their 12th Annual AIMIA awards. Is anyone a member of this group? Does anyone know anything about them? Is anyone a finalist? I had a look at some of the finalists and although they seem to require WCAG Priority 1 Accessibility, to reach that, don't your websites need to actually validate (at least some of their finalists don't)? Have I misunderstood? I rather think it's a good idea - but I think it misses a certain something (tableless design, validation, accessibility, etc). There are so many designers/developers on this list (and elsewhere) doing so many amazing things - why don't they ever get recognised for the good things they do? They deserve it more!! Would there be a way to give them the recognition they deserve? Kat ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain private or confidential information. If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this e-mail or disclose its contents to any other party. This email represents the views of the individual sender, which do not necessarily reflect those of education.au limited except where the sender expressly states otherwise. It is your responsibility to scan this email and any files transmitted with it for viruses or any other defects. education.au limited will not be liable for any loss, damage or consequence caused directly or indirectly by this email. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] IE7 zoom collapses horizontal tab navigation
This is a centered tab menu based on Alistapart's Sliding Doors concept. The IE7 zoom tool is making the anchor text in the tabs 'collapse' away from the tab background images. See example: http://www.streetdaddy.com/temp/ce/ It only happens when the li is display: block (needed to center the ul). Its fine if the li's are floated. I can't seem to find a fix for the problem, but it must be out there... anyone? Cheers, Miles. IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain private or confidential information. If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this e-mail or disclose its contents to any other party. This email represents the views of the individual sender, which do not necessarily reflect those of education.au limited except where the sender expressly states otherwise. It is your responsibility to scan this email and any files transmitted with it for viruses or any other defects. education.au limited will not be liable for any loss, damage or consequence caused directly or indirectly by this email. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] IE7 zoom collapses horizontal tab navigation
Hi Paul, Its ok when using the View Text Size options, but if I use the Zoom tool in the bottom right hand corner to set a percentage zoom, that's when the problem occurs. Is it the Zoom tool you tried? If so, then I'm even more confused! Cheers, Miles. IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain private or confidential information. If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this e-mail or disclose its contents to any other party. This email represents the views of the individual sender, which do not necessarily reflect those of education.au limited except where the sender expressly states otherwise. It is your responsibility to scan this email and any files transmitted with it for viruses or any other defects. education.au limited will not be liable for any loss, damage or consequence caused directly or indirectly by this email. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
