Re: Disappearing Changes for X11 to /private/etc/ssh/sshd_config

[Jonathan Prescott via X11-users]

Normally, when Apple upgrades files in /etc (/private/etc), they usually copy 
the current version into a file with a suffix of “orig” or “previous”, of 
something along those lines.  After you upgrade, you should check whether your 
original file has copied into a backup, and  merge the two (there might be some 
changes that Apple makes you might want to consider in your final version).

Jonathan

> On Jul 24, 2020, at 3:35 PM, Harry Goldschmitt via X11-users 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have made changes to sshd_config so that incoming X connections work. Of 
> course as documented on the net, they disappear every time I upgrade my OSx, 
> currently 10.15.6. Apple rewrites the /private/etc/ssh/sshd_config file.
> 
> I'm making 2 modifications to /private/etc/ssh/sshd_config:
> 
> X11Forwarding yes
> XAuthLocation /opt/X11/bin/xauth
> 
> From sshd 7.3p1, an Include statement is available in sshd_config, which can 
> point to a directory. The directory can be empty or authorized users can add 
> their own files to be included in sshd_config, overriding what's in the base. 
> My sshd is 8.x (depending on whether I use Apple's or homebrew's). I don't 
> believe there's a default directory.
> 
> I'm currently running a shell script at login to see if Apple has changed my 
> sshd_config, and issue an alert, if so.
> 
> Does anyone know if Apple is planning on supporting the Include statement 
> soon, or if there's another way around this?
> 
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Re: where is the 64-bit X11 on OS X 10.13.6 with XQuartz 2.7.11

[Jonathan Prescott via X11-users]

If you run /opt/X11/bin/Xquartz, it starts up the XQuartz.app.  Note the case 
difference between the two.
Jonathan

> On Jul 3, 2020, at 2:18 PM, JF Mezei via X11-users 
>  wrote:
> 
> XQuartz 2.7.11 (xorg-server 1.18.4)
> High Sierra
> 
> file /opt/X11/bin/Xquartz
> /opt/X11/bin/Xquartz: Mach-O universal binary with 2 architectures:
> [i386:Mach-O executable i386] [x86_64:Mach-O 64-bit executable x86_64]
> /opt/X11/bin/Xquartz (for architecture i386):   Mach-O executable i386
> /opt/X11/bin/Xquartz (for architecture x86_64): Mach-O 64-bit executable
> x86_64
> 
> 
> 
> (Puzzled on how a Unix binary can be a GUI on the OS-X and even be
> placed on dock, I would have expected it to be an Xquartz.app directory
> with the various files in it.
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Re: ARM64 version of xQuartz

[Jonathan Prescott via X11-users]

The “whole bunch more” is the customization of the ARM architecture, memory 
system enchancement, new GPU architectures, core designs, controller designs, 
Neural Engine and other specialized processors all on one chip (4 nm TSMC fab). 
 The only thing that is “ARM” is the instruction set architecture.

Jonathan

> On Jun 25, 2020, at 6:42 PM, René J.V. Bertin  wrote:
> 
> On Thursday June 25 2020 16:21:36 Jonathan Prescott wrote:
> 
> Peachy O:-)
> 
> I guess it was coming, giving how they've been making them behave more and 
> more like giant iPads with keyboards and such...
> Oh well, it was already clear that I'd never buy a new Mac anymore.
> 
>> Based on the announcements at WWDC, Macs are going to transition to “Apple 
>> Silicon” based on Apple implementation of ARM64, plus a whole bunch more
> 
> One *could* read this as "a whole bunch of other computer makers are going to 
> transition" and "Apple will become a silicon pusher". That (the 1st bit) 
> *would* be interesting...
> 
> Either way I assuming there will be a new Rosetta framework, so for some time 
> at least existing x86 applications should continue to function more or less 
> normally. I seem to remember that XQuartz/PPC ran quite properly under 
> Rosetta, am I wrong?
> 
> R.
> 

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Re: ARM64 version of xQuartz

[Jonathan Prescott via X11-users]

Yes, they already demonstrated Intel-programs running on MacOS Big Sur (version 
10.16, or is it OS X 11, no one seems to know yet) on an Apple Silicon Mac.  
They also announced new virtualization hypervisor in the new MacOS that will 
make virtual machines running Linux and Windows faster and more efficient in 
terms of power, heat, etc..  The only sticking point is Boot Camp, much of it 
depending on much Microsoft ARM64 Windows 10 can or cannot be moved to new Mac.

Jonathan

> On Jun 25, 2020, at 6:42 PM, René J.V. Bertin  wrote:
> 
> On Thursday June 25 2020 16:21:36 Jonathan Prescott wrote:
> 
> Peachy O:-)
> 
> I guess it was coming, giving how they've been making them behave more and 
> more like giant iPads with keyboards and such...
> Oh well, it was already clear that I'd never buy a new Mac anymore.
> 
>> Based on the announcements at WWDC, Macs are going to transition to “Apple 
>> Silicon” based on Apple implementation of ARM64, plus a whole bunch more
> 
> One *could* read this as "a whole bunch of other computer makers are going to 
> transition" and "Apple will become a silicon pusher". That (the 1st bit) 
> *would* be interesting...
> 
> Either way I assuming there will be a new Rosetta framework, so for some time 
> at least existing x86 applications should continue to function more or less 
> normally. I seem to remember that XQuartz/PPC ran quite properly under 
> Rosetta, am I wrong?
> 
> R.
> 

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Re: ARM64 version of xQuartz

[Jonathan Prescott via X11-users]

Based on the announcements at WWDC, Macs are going to transition to “Apple 
Silicon” based on Apple implementation of ARM64, plus a whole bunch more

Jonathan

Sent from my iPhone

Jonathan Prescott
(919) 884-6451

> On Jun 25, 2020, at 4:04 PM, René J.V. Bertin via X11-users 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Thursday June 25 2020 10:43:07 Maximilian Ebert wrote:
> 
>> What are the chances that there will be an office ARM64 binary bundle of 
>> xQuartz? Many scientific applications depend on the X11 server and it would 
>> be sad to see them go.
> 
> Macs are going to change CPU architecture AGAIN, or are you in fact referring 
> to running an X server under iOS?
> 
> That said, AFAIK there is no longer an officially supported XQuartz, nowadays 
> you're better off using an X server package from MacPorts. If ARM64 Macs 
> become a thing you can bet that someone will make certain the Xorg server 
> builds on that platform, as long as it doesn't require lowlevel libraries 
> that have to come from Apple.
> 
> If meant X11 for iOS, I'd say if that were to happen it'd have happened 
> already. One can be pretty certain that apps are not allowed to depend on 
> another app (the X server) to run, and from what I understand the remote X11 
> protocol isn't exactly secure (and maybe Apple have other reasons to 
> distinguish an X11 server from VNC clients). Besides, do XQuartz and its 
> descendants even have sufficient builtin support (drivers) for touchscreen 
> and on-screen keyboard interfaces?
> In short, your best bet to use your iPhone or iPad as an X11 terminal would 
> be to use them as VNC clients of an X11-enabled VNC server.
> 
> R.
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Re: xterm operation not permitted

[Jonathan Prescott via X11-users]

As a data point, if it is relevant, rxvt has always worked from El Capitan, 
which was when I bought this Mac, to Catalina today.  Not sure if that is 
important, but, it is an observation.  ETerm was not working, but, I haven’t 
upgraded it since the MacPorts upgrade.  I normally used Apple’s Terminal, and 
iTerm, but, xterm, et al, are useful once in awhile, which why I keep them 
around.

Another point, the last time I installed xterm prior to today, the operating 
system was Catalina 10.15.2.  When I upgraded MacPorts today, my machine had 
been upgraded to 10.15.3 in the interim.  Your point about potential point 
upgrade to the devices fixing the bug could be on point.

Jonathan

> On Feb 6, 2020, at 8:37 PM, Thomas Dickey  wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Feb 06, 2020 at 10:37:34AM -0500, Jonathan Prescott wrote:
>> Well, let’s just say that, on MacOS Catalina 10.15.3, the xterm I had
>> installed, the latest at the time from MacPorts, failed in the way everyone
>> has been noting lately.  I did my periodic update of MacPorts, and I noticed
>> that xterm was updated this cycle.  After the MacPorts update, xterm worked
>> like everyone is expecting.  Now, whether it was xterm that was fixed, or an
>> X11 related library (that’s all I use MacPorts for), I couldn’t tell you. 
>> However, it was not a change in the operating system, or XQuartz (not X11
>> server), since these didn’t change.
> 
> I don't know - since nothing relevant changed in xterm (it's been almost
> all font-related/display-related things in the past year).
> 
> A few years ago someone had a problem with those symptoms which was
> apparently due to MacOS/OSX associating permissions to the _pseudo terminal_.
> 
> In a quick check, it seems I last revised that in 2011.
> 
> I upgraded one of my machines to Catalina in October to investigate this
> (there are a couple of pty-interfaces which _could_ be used, and possibly
> Apple's broken a different one in Catalina), but found no corresponding
> problem (but that one started as Mohave - upgrades from older releases,
> I think, accumulate crud that Apple doesn't cleanup).
> 
> If the problem is related to file-permissions (and acls), I suppose
> it's also possible that an unrelated upgrade will replace some
> file and suddenly relieve some bug.  But I don't know to advise you
> on that -- only on things that I can reproduce :-)
> 
>> Jonathan
>> 
>>> On Feb 6, 2020, at 3:54 AM, Thomas Dickey  wrote:
>>> 
>>> - Original Message -
>>> | From: "Apple X11 Users' List" 
>>> | To: "David Ledger" 
>>> | Cc: "Apple X11 Users' List" 
>>> | Sent: Wednesday, February 5, 2020 9:35:37 PM
>>> | Subject: Re: xterm operation not permitted
>>> 
>>> | I just updated my MacPorts distribution, and the new xterm seems to have 
>>> been
>>> | fixed so that it works on Catalina as you would expect.
>>> | Jonathan
>>> 
>>> that's not due to a change in xterm, but some permissions bug in the 
>>> pseudo-terminal support.
> 
> -- 
> Thomas E. Dickey 
> https://invisible-island.net 
> ftp://ftp.invisible-island.net 
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Re: xterm operation not permitted

[Jonathan Prescott via X11-users]

Well, let’s just say that, on MacOS Catalina 10.15.3, the xterm I had 
installed, the latest at the time from MacPorts, failed in the way everyone has 
been noting lately.  I did my periodic update of MacPorts, and I noticed that 
xterm was updated this cycle.  After the MacPorts update, xterm worked like 
everyone is expecting.  Now, whether it was xterm that was fixed, or an X11 
related library (that’s all I use MacPorts for), I couldn’t tell you.  However, 
it was not a change in the operating system, or XQuartz (not X11 server), since 
these didn’t change.

Jonathan

> On Feb 6, 2020, at 3:54 AM, Thomas Dickey  wrote:
> 
> - Original Message -
> | From: "Apple X11 Users' List" 
> | To: "David Ledger" 
> | Cc: "Apple X11 Users' List" 
> | Sent: Wednesday, February 5, 2020 9:35:37 PM
> | Subject: Re: xterm operation not permitted
> 
> | I just updated my MacPorts distribution, and the new xterm seems to have 
> been
> | fixed so that it works on Catalina as you would expect.
> | Jonathan
> 
> that's not due to a change in xterm, but some permissions bug in the 
> pseudo-terminal support.
> 
> -- 
> Thomas E. Dickey 
> http://invisible-island.net
> ftp://ftp.invisible-island.net

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Re: Operation not permitted

[Jonathan Prescott via X11-users]

If you are using xterm, that seems to be the case.  Using other X-Window 
terminal programs like rxvt don’t seem to have the problem.  Using native 
MacOSX terminal applications like Terminal.app and iTerm2.app don’t have any 
problems.  

However, after all of my playing around, xterm is now working as it should.  
All the cd’ing, ls’ing, in all kinds of circumstances seems to have set 
something.

Jonathan

> On Oct 21, 2019, at 3:51 PM, David L Chopp  wrote:
> 
> I also tried adding /opt/X11/bin/xterm and /bin/ls to the Full Disk Access 
> list and that didn’t work either. Funny thing is, I can access almost every 
> folder on the machine *except* Documents, Desktop, Downloads.  Seems odd that 
> security would be tight around my own Documents, but the system itself 
> including /usr and /opt is fair game.  On the other hand, cd seems to work 
> fine. I can get to any directory within Documents. I can do mkdir inside 
> Documents and then within the created directory I can do the usual 
> operations. So for example, I can create a directory 
> /Users/Myname/Documents/foo using mkdir. I can go to the finder and drag a 
> file from anywhere in Documents and drop it in the new directory, and then I 
> can view/edit/ls/whatever as long as I’m in that directory. So my guess is 
> there’s something peculiar going on with just the Documents, Desktop, and 
> Downloads directories and their subdirectories. Note that creating a new 
> folder via the Finder does not work, the new directory has the same 
> limitations as its parent.  For me, this may be the temporary fix. Create an 
> “Uploads” folder using mkdir so I can transfer files between remote machine 
> and local mac using scp and then work through the Finder locally.  Not ideal, 
> but it could be worse.
> 
> Dave
> 
>> On Oct 21, 2019, at 12:12 PM, Jonathan Prescott > <mailto:jprescot...@icloud.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> As an addendum, using Eterm is not quite the same.  Just re-built Eterm, and 
>> tried it out.  Trying to `ls` Desktop, Documents, and Download, got the 
>> behavior mentioned in this thread.  Cd’ed to Desktop, then did `ls`, worked 
>> fine.  Cd`ed back to home and then did `ls` on Desktop, worked fine.  Same 
>> for the others.  Always worked on other directories from home such as 
>> Public, Sites, Pictures, Movies, and other directories I’ve created.
>> 
>> rxvt had no problem from the get go.
>> 
>> Looks like Catalina introduced something into the Posix sub-system that 
>> xterm, Eterm were using.  Probably a bug-fix that xterm and Eterm were 
>> taking advantage of.
>> 
>> Jonathan
>> 
>>> On Oct 21, 2019, at 1:00 PM, Jonathan Prescott via X11-users 
>>> mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think the issue is xterm, not XQuartz.app or X11.app.  I got rid of my 
>>> XQuartz installation, and the old X11.app installation, and re-built 
>>> xorg-server from MacPorts from scratch on Catalina using Xcode 11.0 command 
>>> line tools.  Xterm behaved as has been described in this thread, but, rxvt, 
>>> eterm seem to be working fine, at least with respect to the behavior here.  
>>> Running with SIP activated, stock Catalina install, X11 support installed 
>>> in /opt.
>>> 
>>> Jonathan
>>> 
>>>> On Oct 21, 2019, at 12:16 PM, David L Chopp via X11-users 
>>>> mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I tried reinstalling XQuartz, but no improvement. I don’t particularly 
>>>> want to run with SIP completely off, but maybe I’ll have to until this is 
>>>> resolved. I’ll wait until it’s a big problem. What I don’t understand is 
>>>> why ls works in my home directory, but not any of the subdirectories. 
>>>> 
>>>> Dave
>>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 18, 2019, at 1:45 AM, Tom Lane >>>> <mailto:t...@sss.pgh.pa.us>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> David L Chopp via X11-users >>>> <mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> writes:
>>>>>> I upgraded to Catalina and now I’m getting “Operation not permitted” 
>>>>>> when doing a simple “ls” command in my Desktop directory. Oddly enough, 
>>>>>> “ls" works fine in my home directory, just not any directories below 
>>>>>> that. I understand this is a casualty of the new SIP settings. I tried 
>>>>>> giving XQuartz full disk access in the privacy settings, but that didn’t 
>>>>>> help. Any ideas?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Have you tried re-installing XQuartz?  That'

Re: Operation not permitted

[Jonathan Prescott via X11-users]

As an addendum, using Eterm is not quite the same.  Just re-built Eterm, and 
tried it out.  Trying to `ls` Desktop, Documents, and Download, got the 
behavior mentioned in this thread.  Cd’ed to Desktop, then did `ls`, worked 
fine.  Cd`ed back to home and then did `ls` on Desktop, worked fine.  Same for 
the others.  Always worked on other directories from home such as Public, 
Sites, Pictures, Movies, and other directories I’ve created.

rxvt had no problem from the get go.

Looks like Catalina introduced something into the Posix sub-system that xterm, 
Eterm were using.  Probably a bug-fix that xterm and Eterm were taking 
advantage of.

Jonathan

> On Oct 21, 2019, at 1:00 PM, Jonathan Prescott via X11-users 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think the issue is xterm, not XQuartz.app or X11.app.  I got rid of my 
> XQuartz installation, and the old X11.app installation, and re-built 
> xorg-server from MacPorts from scratch on Catalina using Xcode 11.0 command 
> line tools.  Xterm behaved as has been described in this thread, but, rxvt, 
> eterm seem to be working fine, at least with respect to the behavior here.  
> Running with SIP activated, stock Catalina install, X11 support installed in 
> /opt.
> 
> Jonathan
> 
>> On Oct 21, 2019, at 12:16 PM, David L Chopp via X11-users 
>> mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> I tried reinstalling XQuartz, but no improvement. I don’t particularly want 
>> to run with SIP completely off, but maybe I’ll have to until this is 
>> resolved. I’ll wait until it’s a big problem. What I don’t understand is why 
>> ls works in my home directory, but not any of the subdirectories. 
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>>> On Oct 18, 2019, at 1:45 AM, Tom Lane >> <mailto:t...@sss.pgh.pa.us>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> David L Chopp via X11-users >> <mailto:x11-users@lists.apple.com>> writes:
>>>> I upgraded to Catalina and now I’m getting “Operation not permitted” when 
>>>> doing a simple “ls” command in my Desktop directory. Oddly enough, “ls" 
>>>> works fine in my home directory, just not any directories below that. I 
>>>> understand this is a casualty of the new SIP settings. I tried giving 
>>>> XQuartz full disk access in the privacy settings, but that didn’t help. 
>>>> Any ideas?
>>> 
>>> Have you tried re-installing XQuartz?  That's my go-to solution for
>>> permissions issues, and I typically find that I have to do it after
>>> any major OS upgrade.
>>> 
>>> FWIW, I've had no problems with XQuartz under Catalina, except for
>>> having to do the aforementioned reinstall.  But I run with SIP off
>>> (for reasons unrelated to X11), so maybe that's not a relevant
>>> data point for you.
>>> 
>>> regards, tom lane
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> But leaving those of the Body, I shall proceed to such Recreation as adorn 
>> the Mind; of which those of the Mathematicks are inferior to none.  
>> ~William Leybourn
>> 
>> 
>> David Chopp
>> Chair
>> Engineering Sciences and Applied Mathematics
>> Northwestern University
>> E-mail: ch...@northwestern.edu <mailto:ch...@northwestern.edu>
>> Phone: (847)-491-8391
>> Fax: (847)-491-2178
>> Homepage: http://people.esam.northwestern.edu/chopp 
>> <http://people.esam.northwestern.edu/chopp>
>> 
>> 
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Re: Operation not permitted

[Jonathan Prescott via X11-users]

I think the issue is xterm, not XQuartz.app or X11.app.  I got rid of my 
XQuartz installation, and the old X11.app installation, and re-built 
xorg-server from MacPorts from scratch on Catalina using Xcode 11.0 command 
line tools.  Xterm behaved as has been described in this thread, but, rxvt, 
eterm seem to be working fine, at least with respect to the behavior here.  
Running with SIP activated, stock Catalina install, X11 support installed in 
/opt.

Jonathan

> On Oct 21, 2019, at 12:16 PM, David L Chopp via X11-users 
>  wrote:
> 
> I tried reinstalling XQuartz, but no improvement. I don’t particularly want 
> to run with SIP completely off, but maybe I’ll have to until this is 
> resolved. I’ll wait until it’s a big problem. What I don’t understand is why 
> ls works in my home directory, but not any of the subdirectories. 
> 
> Dave
> 
>> On Oct 18, 2019, at 1:45 AM, Tom Lane > > wrote:
>> 
>> David L Chopp via X11-users > > writes:
>>> I upgraded to Catalina and now I’m getting “Operation not permitted” when 
>>> doing a simple “ls” command in my Desktop directory. Oddly enough, “ls" 
>>> works fine in my home directory, just not any directories below that. I 
>>> understand this is a casualty of the new SIP settings. I tried giving 
>>> XQuartz full disk access in the privacy settings, but that didn’t help. Any 
>>> ideas?
>> 
>> Have you tried re-installing XQuartz?  That's my go-to solution for
>> permissions issues, and I typically find that I have to do it after
>> any major OS upgrade.
>> 
>> FWIW, I've had no problems with XQuartz under Catalina, except for
>> having to do the aforementioned reinstall.  But I run with SIP off
>> (for reasons unrelated to X11), so maybe that's not a relevant
>> data point for you.
>> 
>> regards, tom lane
> 
> 
> 
> But leaving those of the Body, I shall proceed to such Recreation as adorn 
> the Mind; of which those of the Mathematicks are inferior to none.  
> ~William Leybourn
> 
> 
> David Chopp
> Chair
> Engineering Sciences and Applied Mathematics
> Northwestern University
> E-mail: ch...@northwestern.edu 
> Phone: (847)-491-8391
> Fax: (847)-491-2178
> Homepage: http://people.esam.northwestern.edu/chopp 
> 
> 
> 
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