Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
Then we will have to practically police the world. I don't think that is appropriate. Why weren't we sending money overseas to help the people in those countries make better lives instead of trying to make huge profits in this country as businessmen? Stacy. At 06:37 PM 11/08/2002 -0600, you wrote: I was listening to talk radio today, and they played some stuff from last night's FrontLine (PBS). They had a newsman slip into Iraq and he was interviewing people. They were describing the slaughters going on there. One woman said that her village was forced to an execution. They had to watch 15 women being beheaded by sword. Only a couple were prostitutes, most were doctors and school teachers. I think that in the long run, the majority of Iraqis (especially the women) will be as happy to have us come as did the Afghani women. Today we finished rebuilding a school for girls in one of the major Afghan cities. It has been closed since the Taliban took over. Afghanistan has one of the largest death rates for child bearing (7 in 100), because women aren't allowed to see doctors. We are training dozens of midwives to help inthe deliveries. I'd say that we are saving many of these people, just as we saved Europe from itself in WWII. Thanks to us, Europe is primarily democratic and the people live decent lives. This is now beginning to occur in Russia and Eastern Europe. And perhaps we can export it to more of the world as we fight terrorism (which I am convinced Saddam is involved with). You'll note that Pres Bush has been working with the UN, and in fact the UN Security Council voted unanimously today (including Syria). That definitely shows that Pres Bush is speaking tough in order to get the rest of the world to move a little, yet he's still compromising with them. Iraq now has a month to disarm, or the UN can take action. I think that is very fair. In WWII, we had to fight on several fronts. We didn't just attack Japan and leave Germany and Italy alone until we finished with Japan. We fought them all at once. We still have things to do in Afghanistan, but that doesn't mean we aren't ready to select additional targets in the war of terrorism. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
Whaddya mean "we"? Actually the UN and European aid agencies from Sweden, Norway and the Netherlands in particular are the ones who have been building the schools and training doctors. And Medecins sans Frontieres is not a US agency so far as I know. You're helping, yes, but spread a bit of credit around where it belongs. Gary Smith wrote: > I was listening to talk radio today, and they played some stuff from last > night's FrontLine (PBS). They had a newsman slip into Iraq and he was > interviewing people. They were describing the slaughters going on there. > One woman said that her village was forced to an execution. They had to > watch 15 women being beheaded by sword. Only a couple were prostitutes, > most were doctors and school teachers. > I think that in the long run, the majority of Iraqis (especially the > women) will be as happy to have us come as did the Afghani women. Today > we finished rebuilding a school for girls in one of the major Afghan > cities. It has been closed since the Taliban took over. Afghanistan has > one of the largest death rates for child bearing (7 in 100), because > women aren't allowed to see doctors. We are training dozens of midwives > to help inthe deliveries. > I'd say that we are saving many of these people, just as we saved Europe > from itself in WWII. Thanks to us, Europe is primarily democratic and > the people live decent lives. This is now beginning to occur in Russia > and Eastern Europe. And perhaps we can export it to more of the world as > we fight terrorism (which I am convinced Saddam is involved with). > You'll note that Pres Bush has been working with the UN, and in fact the > UN Security Council voted unanimously today (including Syria). That > definitely shows that Pres Bush is speaking tough in order to get the > rest of the world to move a little, yet he's still compromising with > them. > Iraq now has a month to disarm, or the UN can take action. I think that > is very fair. > > In WWII, we had to fight on several fronts. We didn't just attack Japan > and leave Germany and Italy alone until we finished with Japan. We fought > them all at once. We still have things to do in Afghanistan, but that > doesn't mean we aren't ready to select additional targets in the war of > terrorism. > K'aya K'ama, > Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www > .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html > "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free." - > Johann Wolfgang von Goethe > > > > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > > Only $9.95 per month! > > Visit www.juno.com > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
[ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
I was listening to talk radio today, and they played some stuff from last night's FrontLine (PBS). They had a newsman slip into Iraq and he was interviewing people. They were describing the slaughters going on there. One woman said that her village was forced to an execution. They had to watch 15 women being beheaded by sword. Only a couple were prostitutes, most were doctors and school teachers. I think that in the long run, the majority of Iraqis (especially the women) will be as happy to have us come as did the Afghani women. Today we finished rebuilding a school for girls in one of the major Afghan cities. It has been closed since the Taliban took over. Afghanistan has one of the largest death rates for child bearing (7 in 100), because women aren't allowed to see doctors. We are training dozens of midwives to help inthe deliveries. I'd say that we are saving many of these people, just as we saved Europe from itself in WWII. Thanks to us, Europe is primarily democratic and the people live decent lives. This is now beginning to occur in Russia and Eastern Europe. And perhaps we can export it to more of the world as we fight terrorism (which I am convinced Saddam is involved with). You'll note that Pres Bush has been working with the UN, and in fact the UN Security Council voted unanimously today (including Syria). That definitely shows that Pres Bush is speaking tough in order to get the rest of the world to move a little, yet he's still compromising with them. Iraq now has a month to disarm, or the UN can take action. I think that is very fair. In WWII, we had to fight on several fronts. We didn't just attack Japan and leave Germany and Italy alone until we finished with Japan. We fought them all at once. We still have things to do in Afghanistan, but that doesn't mean we aren't ready to select additional targets in the war of terrorism. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html "No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
True, but they were well-based culturally and industrially after the North German Confederation under Bismarck (the so-called Second Reich). The people were also relatively homogeneous, too, although of course the Nazis exaggerated that. But with the EU now moving east to admit about 8 new countries or so, its complexity is going to take time to overcome and simplify. Think of the 13 states as an example. They fought their revolution in 1776+, but it wasn't until the early 1790s that the federal government structure solidified, and it took more than a century to build up a continent-wide power. Not a perfect comparison, but the EU has its challenges. One is how to ease out of NATO, which is US-dominated, and form their own military, something the US discourages. "John W. Redelfs" wrote: > After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: > >Indeed. The article says it may well take a century for the neo-Europe to > >rise. > > It didn't take that long for the Third Reich. --JWR > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: Indeed. The article says it may well take a century for the neo-Europe to rise. It didn't take that long for the Third Reich. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
Indeed. The article says it may well take a century for the neo-Europe to rise. Jon Spencer wrote: > I expect that sometime in the future, sooner or later, the power of the US > will dwindle and someone else will rise to preeminence. That will clearly > be a hard pill to swallow. > > But it hasn't happened yet, so let's not worry too much about it. > > Jon > > Marc A. Schindler wrote in part: > > There's an article in the latest Atlantic Monthly that is kind of related to > this. > I don't go as far as the author does in his theme, which is that a renascent > Europe > will eventually come to eclipse the US (I have a hard time seeing how that's > going > to happen), but it's an interesting article nonetheless, and it's online: > http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2002/11/kupchan.htm > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
You sexist pig! That should have been "she he" Jon Paul Osborne gloatingly wrote: > he he / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
>I just listened to the speeches concerning the passage of the UN >resolution against Iraq I just heard it too. I appreciate having a powerful President in office that means what he says. I support a war with Iraq unless they bow their knees and completely comply to the demands of the UN. I also believe in the separation of church and state and I feel that the church has no business making specific statements against this war with Iraq. And guess what? The church won't make any statements! So I am right once again. ;-) he he Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
I expect that sometime in the future, sooner or later, the power of the US will dwindle and someone else will rise to preeminence. That will clearly be a hard pill to swallow. But it hasn't happened yet, so let's not worry too much about it. Jon Marc A. Schindler wrote in part: There's an article in the latest Atlantic Monthly that is kind of related to this. I don't go as far as the author does in his theme, which is that a renascent Europe will eventually come to eclipse the US (I have a hard time seeing how that's going to happen), but it's an interesting article nonetheless, and it's online: http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2002/11/kupchan.htm / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
Just to be clear, I was making fun of your statement. You say that we are the laughingstock of the world, and I just laugh at that (Ha ha! :-). The US is in a very difficult position of having sufficient power to destroy most any enemy, but having no desire to simply crush an entire country (and properly so). Thus, little fleas can, for a time, seemingly become the mouse that roared. But GW is clearly a lot smarter than you or others who are either eager to see him fail or who are simply our enemies think that he is. I just listened to the speeches concerning the passage of the UN resolution against Iraq, which passed the UNSC unanimously. people like you say "It took 8 weeks! What a jerk GW is." However, I see a clever strategy that allowed others to make their public stands and be able to announce that they held back the US, while the US got exactly what it wanted. Even SYRIA voted for it, for heaven's sake! The US would not go into Iraq until Dec - Mar, so there is plenty of time. The US has made it clear to Saddam that either he completely disarms or he is toast - there is not confusion there; Bush did an excellent job of letting him know that, and of getting world support for his program. There is plenty of time now for the inspections to either succeed or fail. People in general, and Americans in particular, want thinks NOW - they lack patience. In this case, referencing your comments, he who laughs last, laughs best! And, whatever we can do to bring happiness to the rest of the world is EXACTLY what we should do! :-) Jon Stacy Smith wrote: > No, I am not laughing at LDS as you suppose. I am laughing at American > leadership. > > Stacy. > > At 09:35 AM 11/07/2002 -0500, you wrote: > > >Of course! I understood you completely. My statement still stands. What a > >narrow view of the charter of our church to think that we only desire to > >bring happiness to the select few! :-) > > > >Jon > > > >Stacy Smith wrote: > > > > > I didn't mean LDS; I meant us as a larger part of Americans. > > > > > > Stacy. > > > > > > At 07:43 AM 11/07/2002 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > > >Then there is ample justification in doing what we do! After all, > >bringing > > > >happiness to the world is an important role. > > > > > > > >Jon > > > > > > > >Stacy Smith said with great mirth: > > > > > > > >We are surely the laughingstock of the world and also many Americans, > > > >including me. > > > > > > > >Stacy. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
I don't think so. This is something George III inherited from his Daddy, I'm afraid. After all, the Clinton presidency pursued the USS Cole case with as much vigour as any Republican president would have. But Clinton didn't need to turn it into a domestic election issue. Dan R Allen wrote: > Stacy: > The thing that gets me is this: If we're all of a sudden so concerned > about Saddam's nuclear and biological weapons abilities, why weren't we as > concerned in 1992? > > Dan: > Clinton -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
Stacy: The thing that gets me is this: If we're all of a sudden so concerned about Saddam's nuclear and biological weapons abilities, why weren't we as concerned in 1992? Dan: Clinton / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
Jon Spencer wrote: > Ahem, it is embarrassing when you dissimulate. We bought oil through the > oil for food program, wherein the money is carefully tracked. By the U.N., which you seem not to trust. > And you are > not so stupid as to not know that I am talking about the other type of > transactions that these countries agreed not to do. Or am I incorrect in > that assumption? > Probably, unless you can be more specific. The only countries I can think of that are true sanctions busters aren't OECD countries. > > Jon > > Marc A. Schindler disemulated: > > Ahem. The US bought 795 million barrels of crude oil last year from Iraq. > Don't > blame Europe. > (as opposed to 1,611 mb from Saudi Arabia, the largest supplier of crude, > and > 1,356 mb from Canada, the 3rd largest supplier of crude; Iraq was #6) > > / > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The first duty of a university is to teach wisdom, not a trade; character, not technicalities. We want a lot of engineers in the modern world, but we dont want a world of engineers. Sir Winston Churchill (1950) Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
I wouldn't say laughingstock, but when you're an elephant in a world of mice, the mice get nervous, even when the elephant is kindly disposed towards them. There's an article in the latest Atlantic Monthly that is kind of related to this. I don't go as far as the author does in his theme, which is that a renascent Europe will eventually come to eclipse the US (I have a hard time seeing how that's going to happen), but it's an interesting article nonetheless, and it's online: http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2002/11/kupchan.htm Incidentally, on the same site are a series of articles, including a very insightful one by James Fallows, on what would happen *after* an Iraqi war. It's the cover article, in fact, showing Uncle Sam straining under the weight of a smouldering "51st state". There's also a hilarious comparison of "movie presidents" (Alan Alda in Canadian Bacon is rated the worst). Stacy Smith wrote: > We are surely the laughingstock of the world and also many Americans, > including me. > > Stacy. > > At 01:13 AM 11/07/2002 -0700, you wrote: > -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The first duty of a university is to teach wisdom, not a trade; character, not technicalities. We want a lot of engineers in the modern world, but we dont want a world of engineers. Sir Winston Churchill (1950) Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
No, I am not laughing at LDS as you suppose. I am laughing at American leadership. Stacy. At 09:35 AM 11/07/2002 -0500, you wrote: Of course! I understood you completely. My statement still stands. What a narrow view of the charter of our church to think that we only desire to bring happiness to the select few! :-) Jon Stacy Smith wrote: > I didn't mean LDS; I meant us as a larger part of Americans. > > Stacy. > > At 07:43 AM 11/07/2002 -0500, you wrote: > > >Then there is ample justification in doing what we do! After all, bringing > >happiness to the world is an important role. > > > >Jon > > > >Stacy Smith said with great mirth: > > > >We are surely the laughingstock of the world and also many Americans, > >including me. > > > >Stacy. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
After much pondering, Stacy Smith favored us with: We are surely the laughingstock of the world and also many Americans, including me. It is hard to imagine who our dignity could be any further ravaged than it already is, thanks to Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === You know what would make a good story? Something about a clown who make people happy, but inside he's real sad. Also, he has severe diarrhea. --Jack Handy === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
And as we are taught by the Lord, I am turning that scorn into a blessing to the world! Jon Stacy Smith wrote: > P.S.: I meant that remark rather scornfully. > > Stacy. > > At 07:43 AM 11/07/2002 -0500, you wrote: > > >Then there is ample justification in doing what we do! After all, bringing > >happiness to the world is an important role. > > > >Jon > > > >Stacy Smith said with great mirth: > > > >We are surely the laughingstock of the world and also many Americans, > >including me. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
Of course! I understood you completely. My statement still stands. What a narrow view of the charter of our church to think that we only desire to bring happiness to the select few! :-) Jon Stacy Smith wrote: > I didn't mean LDS; I meant us as a larger part of Americans. > > Stacy. > > At 07:43 AM 11/07/2002 -0500, you wrote: > > >Then there is ample justification in doing what we do! After all, bringing > >happiness to the world is an important role. > > > >Jon > > > >Stacy Smith said with great mirth: > > > >We are surely the laughingstock of the world and also many Americans, > >including me. > > > >Stacy. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
P.S.: I meant that remark rather scornfully. Stacy. At 07:43 AM 11/07/2002 -0500, you wrote: Then there is ample justification in doing what we do! After all, bringing happiness to the world is an important role. Jon Stacy Smith said with great mirth: We are surely the laughingstock of the world and also many Americans, including me. Stacy. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
I didn't mean LDS; I meant us as a larger part of Americans. Stacy. At 07:43 AM 11/07/2002 -0500, you wrote: Then there is ample justification in doing what we do! After all, bringing happiness to the world is an important role. Jon Stacy Smith said with great mirth: We are surely the laughingstock of the world and also many Americans, including me. Stacy. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
Then there is ample justification in doing what we do! After all, bringing happiness to the world is an important role. Jon Stacy Smith said with great mirth: We are surely the laughingstock of the world and also many Americans, including me. Stacy. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
Ahem, it is embarrassing when you dissimulate. We bought oil through the oil for food program, wherein the money is carefully tracked. And you are not so stupid as to not know that I am talking about the other type of transactions that these countries agreed not to do. Or am I incorrect in that assumption? Jon Marc A. Schindler disemulated: Ahem. The US bought 795 million barrels of crude oil last year from Iraq. Don't blame Europe. (as opposed to 1,611 mb from Saudi Arabia, the largest supplier of crude, and 1,356 mb from Canada, the 3rd largest supplier of crude; Iraq was #6) / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
NOW we're in the spirit of things! :-) Noj Stacy Smith wrote: > Maybe not so rhetorical as really sarcastic. > > Stacy. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
We are surely the laughingstock of the world and also many Americans, including me. Stacy. At 01:13 AM 11/07/2002 -0700, you wrote: Jon Spencer wrote: > We didn't want to upset the UN, now, did we? > > Actually, we did have an agreement with Iraq to implement full inspections, > and he did agree to get rid of all of the Iraqi WoMM, although I can't tell > you why we believed him. But certainly, we can't now. > > We are now more concerned because he has had quite some time to implement > more weapons outside of our ability to inspect, and he has quite a bit of > money to do so, given the trade he has with our European "allies" in the UN. > Ahem. The US bought 795 million barrels of crude oil last year from Iraq. Don't blame Europe. (as opposed to 1,611 mb from Saudi Arabia, the largest supplier of crude, and 1,356 mb from Canada, the 3rd largest supplier of crude; Iraq was #6) -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The first duty of a university is to teach wisdom, not a trade; character, not technicalities. We want a lot of engineers in the modern world, but we dont want a world of engineers. Sir Winston Churchill (1950) Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
Jon Spencer wrote: > We didn't want to upset the UN, now, did we? > > Actually, we did have an agreement with Iraq to implement full inspections, > and he did agree to get rid of all of the Iraqi WoMM, although I can't tell > you why we believed him. But certainly, we can't now. > > We are now more concerned because he has had quite some time to implement > more weapons outside of our ability to inspect, and he has quite a bit of > money to do so, given the trade he has with our European "allies" in the UN. > Ahem. The US bought 795 million barrels of crude oil last year from Iraq. Don't blame Europe. (as opposed to 1,611 mb from Saudi Arabia, the largest supplier of crude, and 1,356 mb from Canada, the 3rd largest supplier of crude; Iraq was #6) -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The first duty of a university is to teach wisdom, not a trade; character, not technicalities. We want a lot of engineers in the modern world, but we dont want a world of engineers. Sir Winston Churchill (1950) Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
Maybe not so rhetorical as really sarcastic. Stacy. At 01:49 AM 11/07/2002 -0500, you wrote: We didn't want to upset the UN, now, did we? Actually, we did have an agreement with Iraq to implement full inspections, and he did agree to get rid of all of the Iraqi WoMM, although I can't tell you why we believed him. But certainly, we can't now. We are now more concerned because he has had quite some time to implement more weapons outside of our ability to inspect, and he has quite a bit of money to do so, given the trade he has with our European "allies" in the UN. But this was a rhetorical question, wasn't it? Of course, no one here on this list, including myself, can tell you what will be the short and long term outcome of acting or not acting. I believe that he is a continuing threat to our way of life, along with quite a few other gangsters. Others believe otherwise. Jon Stacy Smith wrote: > The thing that gets me is this: If we're all of a sudden so concerned > about Saddam's nuclear and biological weapons abilities, why weren't we as > concerned in 1992? / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
We didn't want to upset the UN, now, did we? Actually, we did have an agreement with Iraq to implement full inspections, and he did agree to get rid of all of the Iraqi WoMM, although I can't tell you why we believed him. But certainly, we can't now. We are now more concerned because he has had quite some time to implement more weapons outside of our ability to inspect, and he has quite a bit of money to do so, given the trade he has with our European "allies" in the UN. But this was a rhetorical question, wasn't it? Of course, no one here on this list, including myself, can tell you what will be the short and long term outcome of acting or not acting. I believe that he is a continuing threat to our way of life, along with quite a few other gangsters. Others believe otherwise. Jon Stacy Smith wrote: > The thing that gets me is this: If we're all of a sudden so concerned > about Saddam's nuclear and biological weapons abilities, why weren't we as > concerned in 1992? / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
The thing that gets me is this: If we're all of a sudden so concerned about Saddam's nuclear and biological weapons abilities, why weren't we as concerned in 1992? Stacy. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] George III continues the tradition of "malleable truth"
>From the Washington Post, 22/10/02 For Bush, Facts Are Malleable Presidential Tradition Of Embroidering Key Assertions Continues By Dana Milbank Washington Post Staff Writer Tuesday, October 22, 2002; Page A01 President Bush, speaking to the nation this month about the need to challenge Saddam Hussein, warned that Iraq has a growing fleet of unmanned aircraft that could be used "for missions targeting the United States." Last month, asked if there were new and conclusive evidence of Hussein's nuclear weapons capabilities, Bush cited a report by the International Atomic Energy Agency saying the Iraqis were "six months away from developing a weapon." And last week, the president said objections by a labor union to having customs officials wear radiation detectors has the potential to delay the policy "for a long period of time." All three assertions were powerful arguments for the actions Bush sought. And all three statements were dubious, if not wrong. Further information revealed that the aircraft lack the range to reach the United States; there was no such report by the IAEA; and the customs dispute over the detectors was resolved long ago. As Bush leads the nation toward a confrontation with Iraq and his party into battle in midterm elections, his rhetoric has taken some flights of fancy in recent weeks. Statements on subjects ranging from the economy to Iraq suggest that a president who won election underscoring Al Gore's knack for distortions and exaggerations has been guilty of a few himself. Presidential embroidery is, of course, a hoary tradition. Ronald Reagan was known for his apocryphal story about liberating a concentration camp. Bill Clinton fibbed famously and under oath about his personal indiscretions to keep a step ahead of Whitewater prosecutors. Richard M. Nixon had his Watergate denials, and Lyndon B. Johnson was often accused of stretching the truth to put the best face on the Vietnam War. Presidents Dwight D. Eisenhower and John F. Kennedy, too, played with the truth during the Gary Powers and Bay of Pigs episodes. "Everybody makes mistakes when they open their mouths and we forgive them," Brookings Institution scholar Stephen Hess said. Some of Bush's overstatements appear to be off-the-cuff mistakes. But, Hess said, "what worries me about some of these is they appear to be with foresight. This is about public policy in its grandest sense, about potential wars and who is our enemy, and a president has a special obligation to getting it right." The White House, while acknowledging that on one occasion the president was "imprecise," said it stands by his words. "The president's statements are well documented and supported by the facts," Bush press secretary Ari Fleischer said. "We reject any allegation to the contrary." In stop after stop across the country, Bush has cited an impressive statistic in his bid to get Congress to approve terrorism insurance legislation. "There's over $15 billion of construction projects which are on hold, which aren't going forward -- which means there's over 300,000 jobs that would be in place, or soon to be in place, that aren't in place," is how he put it last week in Michigan. But these are not government estimates. The $15 billion figure comes from the Real Estate Roundtable, a trade group that is leading the fight for the legislation and whose members have much to gain. After pleas earlier this year from the White House for "hard evidence" to make its case for terrorism insurance, the roundtable got the information from an unscientific survey of members, who were asked to provide figures with no documentation. The 300,000 jobs number, the White House said, was supplied by the carpenters' union. But a union official said the White House apparently "extrapolated" the number from a Transportation Department study of federal highway aid -- not private real estate -- that the union had previously cited. The president has also taken some liberties as he argues for his version of homeland security legislation. He often suggests in stump speeches that the union covering customs workers is blocking the wearing of radiation detectors. "The leadership of that particular group of people said, 'No way; we need to have a collective bargaining session over whether or not our people should be made to wear these devices,' " he said in Michigan last week. "And that could take a long period of time." The National Treasury Employees Union did indeed argue in January that the radiation devices should be voluntary, and it called for negotiations. But five days later, the Customs Service said it saw no need to negotiate and would begin to implement the policy, which it did. After a subsequent exchange between the union president and Customs Service commissioner, the union wrote in April that it "does not object" to mandatory wearing of the devices. The Customs Service said the delay had less to do with the dispute than the fact that customs lacks enough devi
