Re: [ZION] John Pratt performance art
On Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:41:57 -0600 Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oh, I forgot to add. If you're interested in what's happened in the 27 years since the Joseph Smith Papyri: an Egyptian Endowment was published, try http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/LBOA.pdf a piece of scholarship which is, imo, all the more remarkable because it was written in two weeks by an amateur* (the speed pressure was because FAIR wanted to have something to hand out to people who came to see the anti-Book of Abraham video). Kerry Shirts is working on an even more technical response but that won't be ready for a few weeks yet. *I am not using the word amateur in the pejorative sense, but in the sense of someone whose vocation is not in that field, but who has studied enough to be considered a scholar in the field. As we have no professional theologians (and don't want any, thank you very much -- they just end up competing with legitimate priesthood authority like a few BYU religion profs I could name) amateur scholars is what we're going to get. They're humble enough to submit to Church authority but committed enough to master their field and give the anti-Mormon professionals a run for their money. Thanks for the URL. You are welcome to check out my URL if you like. I have spent many years studying the controversies surrounding the mystery of the Joseph Smith papyri and provide simple, clean, and easy to understand answers. http://www.myegyptology.net/file/id3.htm Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] John Pratt performance art
Have you read any of his books? They're very stimulating. I'd recommend his book which is really a collection of his essays which were published in The Improvement Era, the predecessor to The Ensign. It's called Since Cumorah. Another one which contains similar essays is a three-part book, Lehi in the Desert / The World of the Jaredites / These were the Jaredites. [am going from memory on that title]. Some of his books, like Abraham in Egypt, are highly technical and you really have to like that kind of stuff to enjoy some of it (okay, that's a tautology, but you know what I mean). Paul Osborne wrote: Is there a Nibley cult following too? I honestly have wondered about that. Why is it that so many are wrapped up in the writings of a college professor? What in the world am I missing out on? scratching my head Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] John Pratt performance art
That's a nice looking site. do you mind if I link to it from mine? It'll be a while -- probably a couple of weeks before I update my site, but I'm always collecting links like this. I've got two websites: The LDS Atlas of the World at www.gatheringofisrael.com, but the one I'd include your link in is www.members.shaw.ca/mschindler which has 4 sections: 1. science and religion 2. scriptural studies 3. apologetics 4. miscellaneous. If you go to the apologetics site and go almost all the way to the bottom you'll see a list of links, and that's where I'd like to include your URL if that's alright with you. Paul Osborne wrote: On Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:41:57 -0600 Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oh, I forgot to add. If you're interested in what's happened in the 27 years since the Joseph Smith Papyri: an Egyptian Endowment was published, try http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/LBOA.pdf a piece of scholarship which is, imo, all the more remarkable because it was written in two weeks by an amateur* (the speed pressure was because FAIR wanted to have something to hand out to people who came to see the anti-Book of Abraham video). Kerry Shirts is working on an even more technical response but that won't be ready for a few weeks yet. *I am not using the word amateur in the pejorative sense, but in the sense of someone whose vocation is not in that field, but who has studied enough to be considered a scholar in the field. As we have no professional theologians (and don't want any, thank you very much -- they just end up competing with legitimate priesthood authority like a few BYU religion profs I could name) amateur scholars is what we're going to get. They're humble enough to submit to Church authority but committed enough to master their field and give the anti-Mormon professionals a run for their money. Thanks for the URL. You are welcome to check out my URL if you like. I have spent many years studying the controversies surrounding the mystery of the Joseph Smith papyri and provide simple, clean, and easy to understand answers. http://www.myegyptology.net/file/id3.htm Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] John Pratt performance art
At 03:24 AM 9/27/02 +0800 Mark Gregson favored us with: Most of my glimpses of the bizarre subculture have not been while I have been a bishop. I have noticed that the male version of subculture weirdness tends towards the John Pratt style i.e. esoteric doctrine whereas the female version tends towards non-LDS inspired lunacy (New Age nonsense, usually). Perhaps that's just my limited experience. This really cracks me up. I've been true and faithful for over 30 years, but I still understand that WE are the weird subculture, not those who need to confess to the bishop. They are probably just being normal. John W. Redelfs[EMAIL PROTECTED] * If only they knew the deep and all abiding weirdness that lurks under the surface of much of Mormon culture. --Eric Samuelson, AML List, September 25, 2002 * All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] John Pratt performance art
At 04:08 PM 9/26/02 -0600 Steven Montgomery favored us with: I'm a fan of the truth, not necessarily John Pratt. Yet, In the spirit of Moses 6: 63 I have found much of John Pratt's research to be valid and based on the truth. I admit that some of John Pratt's research is in the area of speculation (which he himself will readily admit) and find myself putting some of his ideas on back burners so to speak. I found Eric Samuelson's criticism a bit harsh, but this was probably to be expected as he knew little about it going in. I see his program as no more strange than for a backyard gathering of amateur astronomers--which is what John Pratt is. Here is an excerpt from what John Pratt says himself about the Feast of Trumpets program in an email message promoting it: Certainly no more strange than an Endowment session. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] John Pratt performance art
No, it's Saturn that's in the telestial kingdom; its rings are composed of all tthe lost singlesods d Stephen Beecroft wrote: Interesting post on AML Tuesday, which you can read in the AML archives at http://www.xmission.com/pub/lists/aml-list/archive/v01.n839 I know that Steven and a couple others are John Pratt fans. I find his writings to be extreme left-field stuff (except for his puzzles, which are pretty cool, and remind me of Microsoft interview questions -- interviewing at Microsoft can actually be a lot of fun). His musings remind me of the Jupiter-is-the-terrestrial-kingdom doctrine I heard being whispered about in my mission. Now, I don't know Eric Samuelsen or what his religious/social views are, but we apparently share a viewpoint on John Pratt. The difference is that his viewpoint is based on direct experience with a Pratt seance^h^h^h^h^h^h meeting, rather than just looking through his web site, which is how I formed my opinions. Anyway, in case anyone cares. Stephen Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 09:57:21 -0600 From: Eric R. Samuelsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [AML] Feeding Your Inner Gnostic I know when the world will end. I know the date of the day of judgment, the specific moment in which the seventh seal will be opened, leading to the Second Coming, the binding of Satan, and the Millennium. In fact, it happened already. Sept 22, 2002 is the day of days, the beginning of the end. The Enoch Calender makes it clear. I know this, because I was there, one of the 144 lucky souls who heard, and saw, and partook of the sublime ritual of the Feast of Trumpets. At least, I think so. It's all very confusing. Okay, what I'm about to tell you about really happened. I may not have understood it all; in fact, I'm pretty sure I missed a lot. But I swear, I'm not making anything up. This post is part theatre review, though what I saw isn't theatre, and it's part book review, though I haven't read the book, and it's very large parts cultural study. So Friday night, I get a call from my sister-in-law--wife's sister--and it turns out she has an extra ticket to this thing, because her husband, my brother-in-law, suddenly can't go, and so, what did I think, did I wanna go? My wife didn't, but hey, there was a dinner involved, with carrot cake, followed by a lecture, I was told, on the Enoch Calender, which I've never heard of. It sounded potentially fun and possibly very strange, and so I went, met L, my sister-in-law, at this rec center in Orem. Turns out it was very important that I go, not just because L had forked out fifteen bucks for the ticket her husband now would not be able to use, but also because there had to be exactly 144 people at this thing. They were counting. Seems there's this guy, a computer geek/calender expert guy named John Pratt. Very pleasant, genial fellow, looked maybe 55-60. We're all there in the room and we're told we're there to participate in the Hebrew Feast of Trumpets, only the Hebrew Feast of Trumpets was actually a couple weeks ago, this is the Feast of Trumpets according to the Enoch calender. This is a calender found in the Book of Enoch, not the truncated version we get in Moses in the P of GP, but the apocryphal work Hugh Nibley got us all excited about twenty five years or so ago. Now, I'm gonna try and explain Pratt's beliefs, but I feel like I'm describing a movie to you that I actually showed up an hour late for, and left after watching it for fifteen minutes. Most of the people in the room (the other 143) have clearly been followers of Pratt for years, while I've heard one brief presentation, plus spent a couple hours on his website. Basically, the stars form a giant celestial calender. God does things according to a very specific chronology, which can be ascertained by carefully watching patterns in the sky. A key to understanding all this can be found in the Book of Enoch, in the calender described therein. And the most important dates in the history of the world have all coincided with holy days in the Enoch calender, usually, I gather, on the holy day of a holy year. There is, of course, a word for the practice of looking at the stars and figuring out the future. That word is astrology. Pratt acknowledges this on his website, but points out that ancient practices have their roots in ancient truths. So, based on this stuff, it turns out the First Vision actually took place on 26 March, 1820, which is nifty because there are weather records that suggest that was the only nice day in the Spring of that year. And it also turns out that 22 Sept. 2002 is a big day, the Feast of Trumpets day in the Year, Feast of Trumpets. Unless I'm going deaf, or crazy, Pratt said directly that 22 Sept (yesterday, that is) was the day, der tag, the day the seventh seal was opened, though he did point out that we might not notice much change immediately, and that we still had
RE: [ZION] John Pratt performance art
Oh, that I were a bishop, and could get the inside scoop on all the bizarreness of the Church membership! On the other hand, maybe not. My experience is that most members don't share that sort of thing with the bishop. Again, being an Edmonton area bishop might be different than a Utah bishop. I think that members know that for the most part bishops are no nonsense sorts of fellows who just wouldn't get their brand of nonsense. Most of my glimpses of the bizarre subculture have not been while I have been a bishop. I have noticed that the male version of subculture weirdness tends towards the John Pratt style i.e. esoteric doctrine whereas the female version tends towards non-LDS inspired lunacy (New Age nonsense, usually). Perhaps that's just my limited experience. = Mark Gregson [EMAIL PROTECTED] = -- __ Download the FREE Opera browser at www.opera.com/download/ Free OperaMail at http://www.operamail.com/ Powered by Outblaze / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] John Pratt performance art
At 04:08 PM 9/26/02 -0600 Steven Montgomery favored us with: As you can see, the program was symbolic and openly stated that it is based on his own interpretation. Beside, I find John Pratt's research and viewpoint that the stars, planets, constellations and calendar systems act to bear record of Christ and serve as signs and seasons no more left field than that of Abraham suggesting that there are governing planets and that the Sun borrows it light from Kolob grin. This is an amazing admission. Abraham was one of the greatest prophets in the history of the earth, and he obtained his education of these things by direct revelation. Can the same be said for John Pratt? John W. Redelfs[EMAIL PROTECTED] * Trying is the first step toward failure. --Homer Simpson * All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
