Re: [ZION] Coffee, tea or eternity?
On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 17:57:54 -0700, Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I have to say, I'm not sure there are 4 Imp gals / 5 US gals in there -- it looks more like 3 Imp gals to me, but I'm just estimating. Hmm, you could always shut of the water, flush to empty the tank and then pour in water to see how much it holds. Scott -- Buttered bread always lands butter side * Would YOU mistake these as down (Unless it sticks to the ceiling!) * anyone`s opinions but my own? Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Scott McGee) Web: http://scott.themcgees.org/ -- http://fastmail.fm - Accessible with your email software or over the web // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Coffee, tea or eternity?
Speaking of bathroom humor :-) This is not so humorous. Whoever came up with these don't work toilets need to be flushed down one of them! Who wants to go in with me when I drive up to Canada to get some toilets that actually do not need the Seinfeld courtesy flush? (I assume that it is still the case that Canada allows real toilets to be used.) The amount of water saved by these stupid toilets is miniscule. If you want to save water, eliminate the flood irrigation they perform in Southern California, and you'll save thousands of times the water supposedly saved by these European abominations! So, who else wants real toilets? Jon Ronn Blankenship wrote: Bathroom humor is an American-Standard. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Coffee, tea or eternity?
Jon Spencer wrote: Speaking of bathroom humor :-) This is not so humorous. Whoever came up with these don't work toilets need to be flushed down one of them! Who wants to go in with me when I drive up to Canada to get some toilets that actually do not need the Seinfeld courtesy flush? (I assume that it is still the case that Canada allows real toilets to be used.) Correct. We still have the bigger tanks that you used to have (iirc, they're 4 Imperial gallons, which is 5 US gallons). -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Coffee, tea or eternity?
Don't quote me on that -- I'm going from memory and I actually went and looked at our nearest toilet, but it doesn't say what the capacity is. ...I went and took the tank cover off. There's some stuff stamped into the ceramics near the top. Besides CSA (like your UL) it says American Standard (that's the brand name), Made in and I can't make out the name of the country. Then it says W / L 5 / 8 I rather suspect that means 5 US gallons but I don't know what the 8 would mean. It's not Litres, as 5 US gallons would be something around 18 or 19 Litres. ...Now you got me, er, goin'. I went and looked at all 3 toilets, and the one in our main upstairs bathroom has the most legible inscription. It reads: 7 NOV 1986 3783 CSA Standard [American Standard's logo] 4083 TANK MADE IN MEXICO T85 W/L 5/8 BELOW OVERFLOW TOP Any plumbers out there who can read toiletese? ;-) I have to say, I'm not sure there are 4 Imp gals / 5 US gals in there -- it looks more like 3 Imp gals to me, but I'm just estimating. Jon Spencer wrote: That would be so great! Imagine lifting the lid and not finding any little surprises, and not having to unplug the stupid thing once a week. But 5 gallons! I would settle for 3! This may be enough reason to move to Canada, even with the socialized medicine! (well ...) Jon Marc A. Schindler wrote: Jon Spencer wrote: Speaking of bathroom humor :-) This is not so humorous. Whoever came up with these don't work toilets need to be flushed down one of them! Who wants to go in with me when I drive up to Canada to get some toilets that actually do not need the Seinfeld courtesy flush? (I assume that it is still the case that Canada allows real toilets to be used.) Correct. We still have the bigger tanks that you used to have (iirc, they're 4 Imperial gallons, which is 5 US gallons). -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on - Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Coffee, tea or eternity?
You guys are the lucky ones over in Canada. You have full capacity and I have to struggle with six. Stacy. At 05:57 PM 11/26/2002 -0700, you wrote: Don't quote me on that -- I'm going from memory and I actually went and looked at our nearest toilet, but it doesn't say what the capacity is. ...I went and took the tank cover off. There's some stuff stamped into the ceramics near the top. Besides CSA (like your UL) it says American Standard (that's the brand name), Made in and I can't make out the name of the country. Then it says W / L 5 / 8 I rather suspect that means 5 US gallons but I don't know what the 8 would mean. It's not Litres, as 5 US gallons would be something around 18 or 19 Litres. ...Now you got me, er, goin'. I went and looked at all 3 toilets, and the one in our main upstairs bathroom has the most legible inscription. It reads: 7 NOV 1986 3783 CSA Standard [American Standard's logo] 4083 TANK MADE IN MEXICO T85 W/L 5/8 BELOW OVERFLOW TOP Any plumbers out there who can read toiletese? ;-) I have to say, I'm not sure there are 4 Imp gals / 5 US gals in there -- it looks more like 3 Imp gals to me, but I'm just estimating. Jon Spencer wrote: That would be so great! Imagine lifting the lid and not finding any little surprises, and not having to unplug the stupid thing once a week. But 5 gallons! I would settle for 3! This may be enough reason to move to Canada, even with the socialized medicine! (well ...) Jon Marc A. Schindler wrote: Jon Spencer wrote: Speaking of bathroom humor :-) This is not so humorous. Whoever came up with these don't work toilets need to be flushed down one of them! Who wants to go in with me when I drive up to Canada to get some toilets that actually do not need the Seinfeld courtesy flush? (I assume that it is still the case that Canada allows real toilets to be used.) Correct. We still have the bigger tanks that you used to have (iirc, they're 4 Imperial gallons, which is 5 US gallons). -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on - Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Coffee, tea or eternity?
At 09:51 AM 11/26/02 -0500, Jon Spencer wrote: Speaking of bathroom humor :-) This is not so humorous. Whoever came up with these don't work toilets need to be flushed down one of them! Then aren't you glad Al Gore wasn't elected President so he could force more stuff like that down our throats? --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Coffee, tea or eternity?
-Marc- W/L 5/8 BELOW Any plumbers out there who can read toiletese? ;-) I'm neither a plumber nor fluent in toiletese, but I suspect the first number is the tank capacity, while the second refers to the total amount of water per flush. Septic Stephen // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Coffee, tea or eternity?
At 05:01 PM 11/23/02 -0500, Jon Spencer wrote: Raw vegetables will cause excessive gas for about two weeks when you start eating them. This is the case for everyone that I know who has started to better their diet. But after two weeks, your gut acclimates to the veggies and you have no more problems. So the best thing is to start such a diet when you start your vacation, and by the time you're back among the people who you have to live with year-round you will be over the excessive gas emissions and they will be able to love you . . . --Ronn! :) Bathroom humor is an American-Standard. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Coffee, tea or eternity?
Raw vegetables will cause excessive gas for about two weeks when you start eating them. This is the case for everyone that I know who has started to better their diet. But after two weeks, your gut acclimates to the veggies and you have no more problems. And, of course, you feel a lot better as well, so it's a nice double treat. Jon Stacy Smith wrote I have endeavored to eat raw vegetables but find they really don't agree with me. What am I supposed to do if my family absolutely insists I eat them? It is questions of this nature that trouble me. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Coffee, tea or eternity?
I have endeavored to eat raw vegetables but find they really don't agree with me. What am I supposed to do if my family absolutely insists I eat them? It is questions of this nature that trouble me. Stacy. At 10:00 AM 11/21/2002 -0600, you wrote: The Lord tells us he doesn't/shouldn't have to command in all things. The WoW is written for the weakest of saints. It is the minimum standard for us to live by. As members mature, they tend to seek higher levels of spirituality, and will often, through the Spirit, create their own personal commandments. Why do so many members not drink caffeine drinks? Because the Spirit has guided them to that decision. It becomes personally binding on them, but not on others who are not prepared. The gospel is like this in many things. The commandments give us minimum compliance, and then the Spirit teaches us the higher things. This way, we don't need to be slothful servants: commanded in all things. Do I need the bishop to instruct me in every service project I am involved in? Of course not. I should actively seek opportunities to do good works, whether in the church or out. Do I pay just a tithe? Or do I consecrate more of my funds by paying a very generous fast offering? No one commands me just what amount I should pay for fast and other offerings. I follow what the Spirit guides me to do. So it is with the WoW. We grow in it as we grow in the Spirit. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Stacy, If the recommendations were changed to not include caffeine, why not, since we know the following about it? I read or heard on the radio that caffeine takes calcium from the bones. If this is true, it seems likely that it should be included. Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Coffee, tea or eternity?
I have endeavored to eat raw vegetables but find they really don't agree with me. What am I supposed to do if my family absolutely insists I eat them? It is questions of this nature that trouble me. Get a vegetable steamer and lightly steam them. Steamed vegetables are totally yummy! Use a small paint brush to coat them with a little butter too. JWR's wife makes the best carrots I've ever had but you will have to go to Ketchikan to get them. JWR is a very lucky man to have such a good wife. :-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] PS. Hi Jack! Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Coffee, tea or eternity?
The butter may be the only thing that saves them from complete extinction from my diet. I can't really stand the taste and they are hard going down my esophagus. Stacy. At 12:51 PM 11/22/2002 -0600, you wrote: I have endeavored to eat raw vegetables but find they really don't agree with me. What am I supposed to do if my family absolutely insists I eat them? It is questions of this nature that trouble me. Get a vegetable steamer and lightly steam them. Steamed vegetables are totally yummy! Use a small paint brush to coat them with a little butter too. JWR's wife makes the best carrots I've ever had but you will have to go to Ketchikan to get them. JWR is a very lucky man to have such a good wife. :-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] PS. Hi Jack! Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Coffee, tea or eternity?
Suppose I never learn to like them? Can I still get into the celestial kingdom without liking them? Stacy. At 11:35 AM 11/22/2002 -0700, you wrote: Stacy wrote: I have endeavored to eat raw vegetables but find they really don't agree with me. What am I supposed to do if my family absolutely insists I eat them? It is questions of this nature that trouble me. My wife is vegetarian (although she does eat fish - I think you are still technically a vegetarian if you eat fish. She is not a vegan, however, in that she does eat eggs, cheese, yogurt, etc.). She does this for health reasons (she's a nutritionist, and has never really liked red meat, even as a child). So, that means at our house we eat vegetarian meals on a regular basis, which are surprisingly good and tasty. I recommend finding someone who knows how to do vegetarian cooking right, and taste what people can do with vegetables. You may learn to like them! We eat some very different vegetables and grains, like couscous and quinoa (which is a high-protein grain). You don't have to eat RAW vegetables. The only good reasons I see for eating vegetables raw are: 1. Taste (some vegetables taste ok uncooked, but only some - chard is vile uncooked); 2. To get the most vitamins and minerals possible from the vegetable. However, certain cooking techniques help retain those vitamins and minerals, so your vegetables can be both healthy AND tasty! This is coming from a guy who grew up in a meat and potatoes family as a child*, so there is hope! :) * I'm pulling a Marc Schindler here - defining what a meat and potatoes family means to me. While it is universally understood that meat and potatoes are the staples of such groups, vegetables were also served with almost every meal. However, their preparation typically left much to be desired, and as a child I detested biting into a boiled piece of califlower only to have it taste like hot water with substance. One time, however, my brother and I negotiated with my parents that if we split the pot 'o peas and finished them all that they would buy us any treat we wanted at the grocery store. Using a lot of milk and water we were successful in downing those disgusting, green pills and later that night we grabbed the biggest treat available to us at the store: A 1 lb. bag of MMs - each! Incidentally, although I now like many of the vegetables I used to detest, I still do not like peas. :) Noroc, Geoff -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Coffee, tea or eternity?
Stacy, in all seriousness, asked: Suppose I never learn to like them? Can I still get into the celestial kingdom without liking them? You'll like them. It's all a matter of faith - first you EAT, and then you'll LIKE. :) I didn't think liking (or eating) vegetables was a requirement for the Celestial Kingdom. At least I hope not - I still don't like peas! Geoff PS - Right now I am enjoying a vegetable lasagna for lunch (left over from last night) - delicious! -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Coffee, tea or eternity?
-Paul- PS. Hi Jack! Tut, tut. We don't make such overt terroristic threats on this list. A Pauled, Stephen // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Coffee, tea or eternity?
Gary wisely wrote: Why do so many members not drink caffeine drinks? Because the Spirit has guided them to that decision. It becomes personally binding on them, but not on others who are not prepared. I agree. slurp ;-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Coffee, Tea or Eternity
If the recommendations were changed to not include caffeine, why not, since we know the following about it? I read or heard on the radio that caffeine takes calcium from the bones. If this is true, it seems likely that it should be included. Stacy. At 06:06 AM 11/20/2002 +, you wrote: Jon, It appears that the generally accepted definition of hot drinks may have been fairly broad for a period of time. A quote from Widtsoe's 1937 book on the Word of Wisdom-- Caffeine, the essential principle of tea and coffee, was discovered, as a chemical substance, a few years before the Word of Wisdom was received. This knowledge was, however, buried in scientific publications. It is very unlikely that the Prophet Joseph Smith had heard of it. It was many years after 1833 that the physiological effect of caffeine was established by science. In the days of Joseph Smith, tea and coffee did not come in for the disfavor shown by some towards alcohol and tobacco. Indeed, people were often advised to use tea and coffee as a means of conquering the liquor habit. That the expression hot drinks was used in the Word of Wisdom rather than coffee and tea, is notable; for by so doing a host of other injurious habit-forming beverages now used (or that may be used) become subject to the Word of Wisdom. ( John A. Widtsoe and Leah D. Widtsoe, The Word of Wisdom: A Modern Interpretation [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1937], 99.) I see several other quotes from Church authorities during the mid-nineteen-hundreds that contain similar language with reference to caffeine-containing beverages. As far as I can recall, it was never interpreted thus during my lifetime. Apparently the revision to more narrowly focus the Word of Wisdom came about some time after the 1940's. It would also seem more significant, I suppose, if we knew specifically what the requirements for a temple recommend were based on. Again, my experience over the last thirty years is that the temple recommend interview only focused specifically on tea and coffee as hot drinks. No bishop has ever questioned me about using caffeine. --- Mij Ebaboc Jon Spencer wrote: --- We talked about this issue today with a couple of sister customers in our bookstore. They both recall that when they were married (many moons ago), it was taught that caffeine was against the WoW. They said it was in the lesson manuals (I'll take their word for it because I am just a newbie - 9 years). They also knew that that had been retracted. --- // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Coffee, Tea or Eternity
Because the WoW *isn't* primarily a health law. It is a law of obedience and spirituality. Stacy Smith wrote: If the recommendations were changed to not include caffeine, why not, since we know the following about it? I read or heard on the radio that caffeine takes calcium from the bones. If this is true, it seems likely that it should be included. Stacy. At 06:06 AM 11/20/2002 +, you wrote: Jon, It appears that the generally accepted definition of hot drinks may have been fairly broad for a period of time. A quote from Widtsoe's 1937 book on the Word of Wisdom-- Caffeine, the essential principle of tea and coffee, was discovered, as a chemical substance, a few years before the Word of Wisdom was received. This knowledge was, however, buried in scientific publications. It is very unlikely that the Prophet Joseph Smith had heard of it. It was many years after 1833 that the physiological effect of caffeine was established by science. In the days of Joseph Smith, tea and coffee did not come in for the disfavor shown by some towards alcohol and tobacco. Indeed, people were often advised to use tea and coffee as a means of conquering the liquor habit. That the expression hot drinks was used in the Word of Wisdom rather than coffee and tea, is notable; for by so doing a host of other injurious habit-forming beverages now used (or that may be used) become subject to the Word of Wisdom. ( John A. Widtsoe and Leah D. Widtsoe, The Word of Wisdom: A Modern Interpretation [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1937], 99.) I see several other quotes from Church authorities during the mid-nineteen-hundreds that contain similar language with reference to caffeine-containing beverages. As far as I can recall, it was never interpreted thus during my lifetime. Apparently the revision to more narrowly focus the Word of Wisdom came about some time after the 1940's. It would also seem more significant, I suppose, if we knew specifically what the requirements for a temple recommend were based on. Again, my experience over the last thirty years is that the temple recommend interview only focused specifically on tea and coffee as hot drinks. No bishop has ever questioned me about using caffeine. --- Mij Ebaboc Jon Spencer wrote: --- We talked about this issue today with a couple of sister customers in our bookstore. They both recall that when they were married (many moons ago), it was taught that caffeine was against the WoW. They said it was in the lesson manuals (I'll take their word for it because I am just a newbie - 9 years). They also knew that that had been retracted. --- // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Coffee, Tea or Eternity
We talked about this issue today with a couple of sister customers in our bookstore. They both recall that when they were married (many moons ago), it was taught that caffeine was against the WoW. They said it was in the lesson manuals (I'll take their word for it because I am just a newbie - 9 years). They also knew that that had been retracted. Just shows to go ya. Jon Larry Jackson wrote: Jon Spencer: I use Dr. Pepper. ___ Dr. Pepper is out of network for me. And that's the trouble with POSs and HMOs and WOWs, etc. The help line gives a different answer everytime I call. [grin] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Coffee, Tea or Eternity
Jon, It appears that the generally accepted definition of hot drinks may have been fairly broad for a period of time. A quote from Widtsoe's 1937 book on the Word of Wisdom-- Caffeine, the essential principle of tea and coffee, was discovered, as a chemical substance, a few years before the Word of Wisdom was received. This knowledge was, however, buried in scientific publications. It is very unlikely that the Prophet Joseph Smith had heard of it. It was many years after 1833 that the physiological effect of caffeine was established by science. In the days of Joseph Smith, tea and coffee did not come in for the disfavor shown by some towards alcohol and tobacco. Indeed, people were often advised to use tea and coffee as a means of conquering the liquor habit. That the expression hot drinks was used in the Word of Wisdom rather than coffee and tea, is notable; for by so doing a host of other injurious habit-forming beverages now used (or that may be used) become subject to the Word of Wisdom. ( John A. Widtsoe and Leah D. Widtsoe, The Word of Wisdom: A Modern Interpretation [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1937], 99.) I see several other quotes from Church authorities during the mid-nineteen-hundreds that contain similar language with reference to caffeine-containing beverages. As far as I can recall, it was never interpreted thus during my lifetime. Apparently the revision to more narrowly focus the Word of Wisdom came about some time after the 1940's. It would also seem more significant, I suppose, if we knew specifically what the requirements for a temple recommend were based on. Again, my experience over the last thirty years is that the temple recommend interview only focused specifically on tea and coffee as hot drinks. No bishop has ever questioned me about using caffeine. --- Mij Ebaboc Jon Spencer wrote: --- We talked about this issue today with a couple of sister customers in our bookstore. They both recall that when they were married (many moons ago), it was taught that caffeine was against the WoW. They said it was in the lesson manuals (I'll take their word for it because I am just a newbie - 9 years). They also knew that that had been retracted. --- // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Coffee, Tea or Eternity
Stacy Smith wrote: Then why can't the church take an active stance on caffeine if that is the real problem? Because the WoW is not so much a health law as it is a spiritual law. It is one of the ways that the Church uses to determine which members are serious about the restored gospel and which are not. That is why it is one of the temple recommend questions. But temple recommend interview is not asking us about caffeine, meat, eating sparingly, drinking mild barley drinks, etc. It is specifically asing us about tea, coffee, alcohol, and tobacco. Beyond that there are a lot of things we can do to improve our health. It is just not that part of the WoW that the Lord is currently using to deterine temple worthiness. Maybe the Lord should include regular aerobic execise, or avoiding too much salt, or cutting down on our cholesterol, etc. He could have included these things in the WoW if he had wanted to. But he didn't. I think it is wrong for me to drinks Cokes, but not because it is a WoW violation. I don't think it is. The reason I think it is a sin for me to drink Cokes is because I become addicted to them and lose control over how many of them I drink. But every person is different. A lot of people can drink Cokes without becoming addicted. So, caffeine is a bad idea for those who have a weakness for it. But it is not mentioned in the Word of Wisdom and is not part of it any more than avoiding fatty foods or using too much white sugar. Besides, several places in the New Testament the Savior teachines that true religion is not a matter of meat and drink but charity, loving our neighbor, administering to the needs of widows and orphans, etc. If we get hung up on WoW, we are going to overlook the more important parts of the gospel. Or at least that is the way it seems to me today. Your friend and brother, John W. Redelfs, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stacy. At 05:43 PM 11/16/2002 -0500, you wrote: I have heard that tannic acid is used in the making of coffee and tea and that can be more harmful than caffeine. It's kind of reminiscent of the WhiteLies anti-smoking campaign telling us what is REALLY in a cigarette--it ain't just tobacco. Yet I can remember not so many years ago when it was cool to smoke Kools etc. My how things change in a couple of decades. On the subject of caffeine, as for me and (sometimes) mine--I have heard President Hinckley, twice, say on national television that we do not drink soda with caffeine, and that is good enough for me (is this a liberal stance ;-p). My two inactive sons do their own thing with that, but when I drive to the temple in Chicago, and afterward go to Jewel to stock up on caffeine free Dr. Pepper, they are ecstatic. I have not yet been able to get local bottlers to get the caffeine free DP here. your sis in Mishawaka val On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 10:11:19 -0800 Stacy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What else does coffee have in it besides caffeine? Are there other active ingredients? Stacy. Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Coffee, Tea or Eternity
Sorry - that drink is against my religion. I use Dr. Pepper. Jon Paul Osborne wrote: JWR's assessment of the WoW is exactly how I think. It's too bad we live so far away from each other or we could sit down and celebrate our agreement with a Coke! ;-) Paul O On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 08:15:05 + John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] Because the WoW is not so much a health law as it is a spiritual law. It is one of the ways that the Church uses to determine which // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Coffee, Tea or Eternity
Jon Spencer: I use Dr. Pepper. ___ Dr. Pepper is out of network for me. And that's the trouble with POSs and HMOs and WOWs, etc. The help line gives a different answer everytime I call. [grin] Larry Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Coffee, Tea or Eternity
Well, he'll be at our place Thursday evening for dinner. I think all we have in the house is orange juice, cocoa and ginger ale. I'll have to go to SuperStore and get some real Jamaican ginger beer for them -- that stuff's almost flammable (totally alcohol free -- flammable in the spicy sense). Paul Osborne wrote: JWR's assessment of the WoW is exactly how I think. It's too bad we live so far away from each other or we could sit down and celebrate our agreement with a Coke! ;-) Paul O On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 08:15:05 + John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] Because the WoW is not so much a health law as it is a spiritual law. It is one of the ways that the Church uses to determine which members are serious about the restored gospel and which are not. That is why it is one of the temple recommend questions. But temple recommend interview is not asking us about caffeine, meat, eating sparingly, drinking mild barley drinks, etc. It is specifically asing us about tea, coffee, alcohol, and tobacco. Beyond that there are a lot of things we can do to improve our health. It is just not that part of the WoW that the Lord is currently using to deterine temple worthiness. Maybe the Lord should include regular aerobic execise, or avoiding too much salt, or cutting down on our cholesterol, etc. He could have included these things in the WoW if he had wanted to. But he didn't. I think it is wrong for me to drinks Cokes, but not because it is a WoW violation. I don't think it is. The reason I think it is a sin for me to drink Cokes is because I become addicted to them and lose control over how many of them I drink. But every person is different. A lot of people can drink Cokes without becoming addicted. So, caffeine is a bad idea for those who have a weakness for it. But it is not mentioned in the Word of Wisdom and is not part of it any more than avoiding fatty foods or using too much white sugar. Besides, several places in the New Testament the Savior teachines that true religion is not a matter of meat and drink but charity, loving our neighbor, administering to the needs of widows and orphans, etc. If we get hung up on WoW, we are going to overlook the more important parts of the gospel. Or at least that is the way it seems to me today. Your friend and brother, John W. Redelfs, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Coffee, Tea or Eternity
Well, he'll be at our place Thursday evening for dinner. I think all we have in the house is orange juice, cocoa and ginger ale. I'll have to go to SuperStore and get some real Jamaican ginger beer for them -- that stuff's almost flammable (totally alcohol free -- flammable in the spicy sense). Be sure to let us know what you have for dinner. I've had Jamaican ginger beer and you're right about it being extremely strong. I had a lovely dinner tonight and now I'm hungry again just thinking about food. BTW, John really likes chocolate, especially fresh chocolate donuts. smack Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Coffee, Tea or Eternity
The reason I can't drink that barley drink is that I haven't found a good way to measure it easily. Stacy. At 09:33 AM 11/18/2002 -0700, you wrote: John W. Redelfs wrote: Stacy Smith wrote: Then why can't the church take an active stance on caffeine if that is the real problem? Because the WoW is not so much a health law as it is a spiritual law. It is one of the ways that the Church uses to determine which members are serious about the restored gospel and which are not. That is why it is one of the temple recommend questions. But temple recommend interview is not asking us about caffeine, meat, eating sparingly, drinking mild barley drinks, etc. When my mother, who had a hard time giving up tea and coffee when she joined the Church in the late 50s, switched to Postum, at the suggestion of one of her mentors, Barbara Benson Walker, ETB's daughter, whose husband was our first bishop. Postum is basically made out of roasted barley. I couldn't stand the stuff, but I think she still drinks it. In Germany they have another barley drink, but its name escapes me at the moment. It is specifically asing us about tea, coffee, alcohol, and tobacco. Beyond that there are a lot of things we can do to improve our health. It is just not that part of the WoW that the Lord is currently using to deterine temple worthiness. Maybe the Lord should include regular aerobic execise, or avoiding too much salt, or cutting down on our cholesterol, etc. He could have included these things in the WoW if he had wanted to. But he didn't. He could have also told the early Saints to boil their drinking water they got from the Mississippi, which would have prevented a cholera epidemic Nauvoo suffered through at one point, iirc. But he didn't. I'm with JWR on this -- it's only superficially about health. Put another way, health becomes a kind of type for spirituality. It's a law of obedience and helps set us apart as a spiritual community, as Zion. I think it is wrong for me to drinks Cokes, but not because it is a WoW violation. I don't think it is. The reason I think it is a sin for me to drink Cokes is because I become addicted to them and lose control over how many of them I drink. But every person is different. A lot of people can drink Cokes without becoming addicted. So, caffeine is a bad idea for those who have a weakness for it. But it is not mentioned in the Word of Wisdom and is not part of it any more than avoiding fatty foods or using too much white sugar. Besides, several places in the New Testament the Savior teachines that true religion is not a matter of meat and drink but charity, loving our neighbor, administering to the needs of widows and orphans, etc. If we get hung up on WoW, we are going to overlook the more important parts of the gospel. Or at least that is the way it seems to me today. Your friend and brother, John W. Redelfs, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stacy. At 05:43 PM 11/16/2002 -0500, you wrote: I have heard that tannic acid is used in the making of coffee and tea and that can be more harmful than caffeine. It's kind of reminiscent of the WhiteLies anti-smoking campaign telling us what is REALLY in a cigarette--it ain't just tobacco. Yet I can remember not so many years ago when it was cool to smoke Kools etc. My how things change in a couple of decades. On the subject of caffeine, as for me and (sometimes) mine--I have heard President Hinckley, twice, say on national television that we do not drink soda with caffeine, and that is good enough for me (is this a liberal stance ;-p). My two inactive sons do their own thing with that, but when I drive to the temple in Chicago, and afterward go to Jewel to stock up on caffeine free Dr. Pepper, they are ecstatic. I have not yet been able to get local bottlers to get the caffeine free DP here. your sis in Mishawaka val On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 10:11:19 -0800 Stacy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What else does coffee have in it besides caffeine? Are there other active ingredients? Stacy. Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com / / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///
Re: [ZION] Coffee, Tea or Eternity
Jon Spencer wrote: Not correct (so much nicer than saying Wrong! :-). There was a letter sent out some time ago clarifying that caffeine is not prohibited by the WoW. And I believe that the point of President Hinckley not contradicting Wallace on the caffeine question was to not get sidetracked. I presume he felt it wasn't important. Much better put. This was my impression when watching the show. He was merely acknowledging the question in order not to disturb the flow of the conversation. There are lots of silly apostateisms that creep into our religion. One is you can't drink any caffeinated beverages. Another is that you have to pass the Sacrament tray with your right hand. Some claim that you can't do anything that might be considered physical exercise on Sunday (like taking a walk with your family). And there are many, many more. Perfect the Saints. Proclaim the Gospel. Redeem the Dead. If you're addicted to caffeine, don't drink it, and don't eat chocolate. Leave the nitpicking to someone else. (And just to be clear, I am not speaking to Marc on this. I'm just pontificating. :-) Jon -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Coffee, Tea or Eternity
There are lots of silly apostateisms that creep into our religion. One is you can't drink any caffeinated beverages. Another is that you have to pass the Sacrament tray with your right hand. Some claim that you can't do anything that might be considered physical exercise on Sunday (like taking a walk with your family). And there are many, many more. Chuckle. :-)) I don't let these things bother me. I drink my coke when I want and just live my life. What others think is their own sorry problem although I have virtually quit drinking cokes to avoid getting fat--or should I say--unwanted extra weight. No offense to those who may be overweight. ;-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Coffee, Tea or Eternity
President Hinckley, twice, say on national television that we do not drink soda with caffeine, I heard it too, but he is not speaking for me or my house. I have no problem with cokes. Everyone must make their own choice and go with it. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Coffee, Tea or Eternity
Then why can't the church take an active stance on caffeine if that is the real problem? Stacy. At 05:43 PM 11/16/2002 -0500, you wrote: I have heard that tannic acid is used in the making of coffee and tea and that can be more harmful than caffeine. It's kind of reminiscent of the WhiteLies anti-smoking campaign telling us what is REALLY in a cigarette--it ain't just tobacco. Yet I can remember not so many years ago when it was cool to smoke Kools etc. My how things change in a couple of decades. On the subject of caffeine, as for me and (sometimes) mine--I have heard President Hinckley, twice, say on national television that we do not drink soda with caffeine, and that is good enough for me (is this a liberal stance ;-p). My two inactive sons do their own thing with that, but when I drive to the temple in Chicago, and afterward go to Jewel to stock up on caffeine free Dr. Pepper, they are ecstatic. I have not yet been able to get local bottlers to get the caffeine free DP here. your sis in Mishawaka val On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 10:11:19 -0800 Stacy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What else does coffee have in it besides caffeine? Are there other active ingredients? Stacy. Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Coffee, Tea or Eternity
Valerie Nielsen Williams wrote: I have heard that tannic acid is used in the making of coffee and tea and that can be more harmful than caffeine. It's kind of reminiscent of the WhiteLies anti-smoking campaign telling us what is REALLY in a cigarette--it ain't just tobacco. Yet I can remember not so many years ago when it was cool to smoke Kools etc. My how things change in a couple of decades. On the subject of caffeine, as for me and (sometimes) mine--I have heard President Hinckley, twice, say on national television that we do not drink soda with caffeine, Actually, if you listen to his response carefully (I believe this was the interview with 60 Minutes) his answer isn't clear. It seemed to me to be more of an acknowledgement of the question than anything else. The fact is, if you drink caffeinated soft drinks, it's a health issue, but it's not a temple recommend issue, and therefore, one presumes, not a WoW issue. I know several senior local LDS who drink Diet Coke or Pepsi. That's not to say your position is wrong, either -- just that there is no LDS position on the issue. and that is good enough for me (is this a liberal stance ;-p). My two inactive sons do their own thing with that, but when I drive to the temple in Chicago, and afterward go to Jewel to stock up on caffeine free Dr. Pepper, they are ecstatic. I have not yet been able to get local bottlers to get the caffeine free DP here. your sis in Mishawaka val -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
