RE: [ZION] Thoughts on Ted Kennedy and Communism
-Original Message- From: Gerald Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 7:53 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ZION] Thoughts on Ted Kennedy and Communism Ron Scott tried to excuse Ted's behavior by the deaths of his brothers, and asked for what danger there is from communism today. I did nothing of the kind, friend. Nor do I see any correlation between communism and Ted Kennedy. Let me answer both. First, Ted's behavior came along way before any of his brothers died. Chappaquidick shows us just what kind of a person he is. Wrong, again. The incident at Chappaquiddick (correct SPELLING) was July, 1969. JFK was assassinated in November of 1963; RFK was gunned down in July of 1968. Teddy's behavior after the accident was reprehensible. occured after the assassinationWhile John Kennedy risked his life for his men on his PT boat, and with his brother, Bobby Kennedy, stood firm against communism in the Cuba Missile Crisis; we have Teddy going his own spoiled brat way. I agree, he was a spoiled brat with a mjaor league drinking problem. He arrived in Utah in 1968 and his first question to reporters was: where can I get a drink? Mort Sahl, the comedian and political commentator once mentioned how people would grab him and say, you've got to see this new senator, he's just like JFK or This new guy is just like Bobby. Mort wondered if there was anyone that wasn't like JFK or Bobby, and then it dawned on him: Teddy. If anything, Teddy sold out to communist/extreme liberal interests long ago, and shares nothing with his older brothers except the now misnomered label Democrat. As you noted correctly, Mort Sahl was a comedian. SNIP. I did not attempt to compare Ted to John or Bobby. Not once. Not ever. I simply said that we, who are no position to judge him anyway, ought to take into account the fact that his three older brothers -- Joe, Jack and Bobby-- met violent, untimely deaths. In the cases of Jack and Bobby, those deaths were in his face, day in and day out, for years and years and years. I suspect such would have a negative impact on all of us. That is no excuse for his behavior. Now, as for communism's modern threat. I don't look at it as a threat by communism, but by tyrannical ideologies. Ideologies that seek to reach their goals by enslaving or killing millions are evil. I don't think we disagree. America should not support nor sustain any of them, except in encouraging them to become free republics. Then, I read the Revelation of John as discussing Beasts, etc. I see the first Beast as the European Union, with its disgust for true freedom and desire to establish a major economic system enforced everywhere (which is what the Beast does. You can't buy nor sell without its mark: the Euro?). You've got to be kidding? Then, the Dragon is China, which is becoming a world power. Finally, the second Beast will be the Muslim nations, as they enhance in power, and as Europe embraces them in their disgust toward Israel, and in their attempt to pacify terrorists. So basically, your distorted view has transformed it into an You and your fellow travelers against the rest of the world scenario. I love it. I am not a capitalist, BTW. I believe it is just as easy to push capitalism in communist China as it is to do it here. I am a believer in human liberty, not given by the state, but by God. This is the clencher that separates free republics like the USA from many of its counterparts in Europe. France and Germany believe in freedom, only as long as it doesn't bother the politicians. France doesn't have several viewpoints readily available to its people, but only that of the ruling party. They seek to secularize the EU, getting rid of Christianity, rather than allowing religious freedom, but recognizing its roots: both the good and bad of it all. I think you have an astonishingly skewed view of reality, especially of Europe. I see a grave danger coming in the name of capitalism and false democracies that embrace tyrannical governments. We have been known to do it in the past, but hopefully we are learning we cannot do so any longer. Meanwhile much of Europe is becoming one of the world's greatest dangers because of its embracing terrorist nations and ideologies. To use my initials: B.S. RBS // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html
RE: [ZION] Thoughts on Ted Kennedy and Communism
Well, Ron, you asked us to tell what we believe and not quote others. I did just as you asked. Now, does this mean I think everyone in Europe or China is evil? Of course not. I think tyranny holds down the very good and humble people as effectively as it does the wicked. Just look at how the Lamanites and priests of Noah controlled the lives of Alma and his people, until they were able to escape. Now, I hope I'm wrong about the Beasts, etc. And I admit it is my opinion. But just because you disagree with it, does not make it wrong. I explained my thoughts on it briefly, and you simply attacked it as, and I quote, B.S. Surely someone with as much knowledge of worldly things as you can come up with some logical argument. Try dissuading me with cogent arguments, rather than attacking me personally, eh? I know about Europe. I have a Master's Degree in history, and my key area of study was Europe. There are major factors that differentiate the American Revolution from the French Revolution. Those factors remain valid today, and are the key reasons for the rifts between the two nations. Depending upon whose ground one stands, I suppose you could see the other group as unstable, wrong-headed, and perhaps even evil. When Gore Vidal says that Bush would have been hanged by the Founding Fathers for being a despot, he obviously meant the forefathers of the French. His is clearly a European argument, which unsurprisingly, is the argument used by many (not all) liberals here. Why some liberals feel more free in France than here, is simply an issue of how (or what) they define freedom. There are huge chasms of difference between John Adams the forefather and Thomas Jefferson the forefather. I highly doubt Jefferson would have hung Bush. OTOH, the French slew thousands who disagreed with the political flavor of the month. We hear of guillotines, but few know of how people were tied to boats that were sunk, or were staked in fields where cannons were shot to slay them. The French political establishment was one where one had to remain in the center (which was continually moving further left), while the enemies of the right were killed. Today, outspoken voices are rarely heard in France, because there is little actual freedom of opinion or speech there. Meanwhile, over the past few decades, American freedom of speech has been enhanced and grown by a variety of television, radio, and internet blogs that cover all spectrums of the political wavelength. Gary Ron Scott wrote: -Original Message- From: Gerald Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 7:53 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ZION] Thoughts on Ted Kennedy and Communism Ron Scott tried to excuse Ted's behavior by the deaths of his brothers, and asked for what danger there is from communism today. I did nothing of the kind, friend. Nor do I see any correlation between communism and Ted Kennedy. Let me answer both. First, Ted's behavior came along way before any of his brothers died. Chappaquidick shows us just what kind of a person he is. Wrong, again. The incident at Chappaquiddick (correct SPELLING) was July, 1969. JFK was assassinated in November of 1963; RFK was gunned down in July of 1968. Teddy's behavior after the accident was reprehensible. occured after the assassinationWhile John Kennedy risked his life for his men on his PT boat, and with his brother, Bobby Kennedy, stood firm against communism in the Cuba Missile Crisis; we have Teddy going his own spoiled brat way. I agree, he was a spoiled brat with a mjaor league drinking problem. He arrived in Utah in 1968 and his first question to reporters was: where can I get a drink? Mort Sahl, the comedian and political commentator once mentioned how people would grab him and say, you've got to see this new senator, he's just like JFK or This new guy is just like Bobby. Mort wondered if there was anyone that wasn't like JFK or Bobby, and then it dawned on him: Teddy. If anything, Teddy sold out to communist/extreme liberal interests long ago, and shares nothing with his older brothers except the now misnomered label Democrat. As you noted correctly, Mort Sahl was a comedian. SNIP. I did not attempt to compare Ted to John or Bobby. Not once. Not ever. I simply said that we, who are no position to judge him anyway, ought to take into account the fact that his three older brothers -- Joe, Jack and Bobby-- met violent, untimely deaths. In the cases of Jack and Bobby, those deaths were in his face, day in and day out, for years and years and years. I suspect such would have a negative impact on all of us. That is no excuse for his behavior. Now, as for communism's modern threat. I don't look at it as a threat by communism, but by tyrannical ideologies. Ideologies that seek to reach their goals by enslaving or killing millions
RE: [ZION] Thoughts on Ted Kennedy and Communism
At 10:13 AM 11/14/2003, Gary wrote: define freedom. There are huge chasms of difference between John Adams the forefather and Thomas Jefferson the forefather. Whatever differences they had, I find it interesting, and perhaps not mere coincidental, that both men died within hours of each other, July 4th 1826--the Jubilee (Fiftieth) anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do I err, then, in believing that the universe is built upon symbols, to the end that it may bear record of its all-wise Architect and Builder? God teaches with symbols; it is his favorite method of teaching. The Savior often used them. (Orson F. Whitney, Improvement Era, August 1927) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Thoughts on Ted Kennedy and Communism
They spent years angry with one another for the political rivalry they had, refusing to speak to each other. Then in their elder years, they began writing to one another. They forgave each other and became close pen pals. Interesting that John Adams' last words were: Thomas Jefferson still lives, yet Jefferson had passed away a few hours before IIRC. Gary Steven Montgomery wrote: At 10:13 AM 11/14/2003, Gary wrote: define freedom. There are huge chasms of difference between John Adams the forefather and Thomas Jefferson the forefather. Whatever differences they had, I find it interesting, and perhaps not mere coincidental, that both men died within hours of each other, July 4th 1826--the Jubilee (Fiftieth) anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do I err, then, in believing that the universe is built upon symbols, to the end that it may bear record of its all-wise Architect and Builder? God teaches with symbols; it is his favorite method of teaching. The Savior often used them. (Orson F. Whitney, Improvement Era, August 1927) Gerald (Gary) Smith geraldsmith@ juno.com http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Thoughts on Ted Kennedy and Communism
At 01:26 PM 11/14/2003, you wrote: They spent years angry with one another for the political rivalry they had, refusing to speak to each other. Then in their elder years, they began writing to one another. They forgave each other and became close pen pals. Interesting that John Adams' last words were: Thomas Jefferson still lives, yet Jefferson had passed away a few hours before IIRC. Gary Thomas Jefferson, in his handwritten instructions for his own tombstone, stated that he wanted to be remembered for three things--Author of the Declaration of Independence, Author of the Statute of Virginia for religious freedom, and Father of the University of Virginia. http://www.harcourtschool.com/activity/jefferson/j_ba.html -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Editor, The Constitutional Broadside Newsletter http://www.thecbn.net // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
