Well, Ron, you asked us to tell what we believe and not quote others. I 
did just as you asked.

Now, does this mean I think everyone in Europe or China is evil? Of 
course not. I think tyranny holds down the very good and humble people 
as effectively as it does the wicked. Just look at how the Lamanites and 
priests of Noah controlled the lives of Alma and his people, until they 
were able to escape.

Now, I hope I'm wrong about the Beasts, etc.  And I admit it is my 
opinion. But just because you disagree with it, does not make it wrong. 
I explained my thoughts on it briefly, and you simply attacked it as, 
and I quote, "B.S."  Surely someone with as much knowledge of worldly 
things as you can come up with some logical argument. Try dissuading me 
with cogent arguments, rather than attacking me personally, eh?

I know about Europe. I have a Master's Degree in history, and my key 
area of study was Europe.  There are major factors that differentiate 
the American Revolution from the French Revolution. Those factors remain 
valid today, and are the key reasons for the rifts between the two 
nations. Depending upon whose ground one stands, I suppose you could see 
the other group as unstable, wrong-headed, and perhaps even evil. When 
Gore Vidal says that Bush would have been hanged by the Founding Fathers 
for being a despot, he obviously meant the forefathers of the French. 
His is clearly a European argument, which unsurprisingly, is the 
argument used by many (not all) liberals here. Why some liberals feel 
more free in France than here, is simply an issue of how (or what) they 
define freedom.  There are huge chasms of difference between John Adams 
the forefather and Thomas Jefferson the forefather.  I highly doubt 
Jefferson would have hung Bush. OTOH, the French slew thousands who 
disagreed with the political flavor of the month. We hear of 
guillotines, but few know of how people were tied to boats that were 
sunk, or were staked in fields where cannons were shot to slay them. The 
French political establishment was one where one had to remain in the 
"center" (which was continually moving further left),  while the enemies 
of the right were killed. Today, outspoken voices are rarely heard in 
France, because there is little actual freedom of opinion or speech 
there. Meanwhile, over the past few decades, American freedom of speech 
has been enhanced and grown by a variety of television, radio, and 
internet blogs that cover all spectrums of the political wavelength.


Ron Scott wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gerald Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 7:53 AM
> > Subject: [ZION] Thoughts on Ted Kennedy and Communism
> >
> >
> >
> > Ron Scott tried to excuse Ted's behavior by the deaths of his
> > brothers, and asked for what danger there is from communism today.<<
> I did nothing of the kind, friend. Nor do I see any correlation between
> communism and Ted Kennedy.
> >
> > Let me answer both. First, Ted's behavior came along way before
> > any of his brothers died. Chappaquidick shows us just what kind
> > of a person he is. <
> Wrong, again. The incident at Chappaquiddick (correct SPELLING) was 
> July,
> 1969. JFK was assassinated in November of 1963; RFK was gunned down in 
> July
> of 1968.  Teddy's behavior after the accident was reprehensible.
> >occured after the assassinationWhile John Kennedy risked his life for 
> >his
> men
> > on his PT boat, and with his brother, Bobby Kennedy, stood firm
> > against communism in the Cuba Missile Crisis; we have Teddy going
> > his own spoiled brat way. <
> I agree, he was a spoiled brat with a mjaor league drinking problem.  He
> arrived in Utah in 1968 and his first question to reporters was: "where 
> can
> I get a drink?"
> >Mort Sahl, the comedian and political
> > commentator once mentioned how people would grab him and say,
> > "you've got to see this new senator, he's just like JFK" or "This
> > new guy is just like Bobby."  Mort wondered if there was anyone
> > that wasn't like JFK or Bobby, and then it dawned on him: Teddy.
> > If anything, Teddy sold out to communist/extreme liberal
> > interests long ago, and shares nothing with his older brothers
> > except the now misnomered label "Democrat." <
> As you noted correctly, Mort Sahl was a comedian.
> SNIP. I did not attempt to compare Ted to John or Bobby. Not once. Not 
> ever.
> I simply said that we, who are no position to judge him anyway, ought to
> take into account the fact that his three older brothers -- Joe, Jack 
> and
> Bobby-- met violent, untimely deaths.  In the cases of Jack and Bobby, 
> those
> deaths were in his face, day in and day out, for years and years and 
> years.
> I suspect such would have a negative impact on all of us.  That is no 
> excuse
> for his behavior.
> > Now, as for communism's modern threat. I don't look at it as a
> > threat by communism, but by tyrannical ideologies. Ideologies
> > that seek to reach their goals by enslaving or killing millions
> > are evil.<
> I don't think we disagree.
> >America should not support nor sustain any of them,
> > except in encouraging them to become free republics. Then, I read
> > the Revelation of John as discussing Beasts, etc. I see the first
> > Beast as the European Union, with its disgust for true freedom
> > and desire to establish a major economic system enforced
> > everywhere (which is what the Beast does. You can't buy nor sell
> > without its mark: the Euro?). <
> You've got to be kidding?
> >Then, the Dragon is China, which is
> > becoming a world power. Finally, the second Beast will be the
> > Muslim nations, as they enhance in power, and as Europe embraces
> > them in their disgust toward Israel, and in their attempt to
> > pacify terrorists.<<
> So basically, your distorted view has transformed it into an "You and 
> your
> fellow travelers against the rest of the world" scenario.  I love it.
> > I am not a capitalist, BTW. I believe it is just as easy to push
> > capitalism in communist China as it is to do it here. I am a
> > believer in human liberty, not given by the state, but by God.
> > This is the clencher that separates free republics like the USA
> > from many of its counterparts in Europe. France and Germany
> > believe in freedom, only as long as it doesn't bother the
> > politicians. France doesn't have several viewpoints readily
> > available to its people, but only that of the ruling party. They
> > seek to secularize the EU, getting rid of Christianity, rather
> > than allowing religious freedom, but recognizing its roots: both
> > the good and bad of it all.<
> I think you have an astonishingly skewed view of reality, especially of
> Europe.
> > I see a grave danger coming in the name of capitalism and false
> > democracies that embrace tyrannical governments. We have been
> > known to do it in the past, but hopefully we are learning we
> > cannot do so any longer.  Meanwhile much of Europe is becoming
> > one of the world's greatest dangers because of its embracing
> > terrorist nations and ideologies.<<
> To use my initials: B.S.

Gerald (Gary) Smith
geraldsmith@ juno.com

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