Re: [Zope-dev] Problem starting Zope
Thanks Dieter for the reply. Sorry for the delay in the reply. The problem was on my home machine and I've been at work. I don't know that anyone broke code, other than Netscape breaking my lines in the message. :) I duplicated the message by typing it into Netscape. Look at the reply to myself for more info. I still don't know where there error is but it doesn't work with the cvs Python. Thanks again. Jimmie Houchin Dieter Maurer wrote: Jimmie Houchin writes: Installing Zope via wo_pcgi.py and then starting Zope via ./z2.py gives me this: the -h output -W port The WebDAV: command not found ../z2.py: line 288: syntax error near unexpected token `sys.path.insert(0,' ../z2.py: line 288: `sys.path.insert(0, '%s/lib/python' % swhome)' Someone broke the code near line 288 of z2.py. Look at it. You should be especially worried about indentation. Convert tab to spaces and see whether the indentation is right. Dieter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Problem starting Zope
Updating my previous message. The problem must be in the cvs version of Python. I downloaded the tarball of 2.1, compiled. Recompiled Zope. ./start Up and running. :) In addition to the error below when doing ./z2.py I got this when doing ./start with the cvs Python: ./start /usr/local/lib/python2.2/FCNTL.py:7: DeprecationWarning: ... (don't want to type it all) ditto... - 2001-07-06... PANIC(300) z2 Startup exception Traceback ... (Object: ZLogger) File /usr/local/zope/Zope2/lib/python/Zope/__init__.py, line 95, in ? ... (Object: Transformer) ... File /usr/local/zope/Zope2/lib/python/RestrictedPython/compiler/transformer.py, line 695, in com_node KeyError: 313 Lots not included. Hopefully it is enough. I can duplicate if necessary to provide more information. Does anyone have a way to copy text from a GnomeTerminal window? Or is there a better way that I can do this to be able to provide accurate information? Anything I can do to assist better, I would be happy to do. Thanks again. Jimmie Houchin Jimmie Houchin wrote: Hello, After messing around for a long time, I am finally beginning to develop my website. :) I am having problems starting Zope. I've never had problems starting Zope. RH 7.1 I have an updated cvs Zope installed. I have an updated cvs Python installed. It is the cvs Python which is called on the commandline or via /usr/local/bin/python. Installing Zope via wo_pcgi.py and then starting Zope via ./z2.py gives me this: the -h output ... -W port The WebDAV: command not found ./z2.py: line 288: syntax error near unexpected token `sys.path.insert(0,' ./z2.py: line 288: `sys.path.insert(0, '%s/lib/python' % swhome)' I don't know if I've encountered a bug or did something wrong. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks, Jimmie Houchin ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Problem starting Zope
Hello, After messing around for a long time, I am finally beginning to develop my website. :) I am having problems starting Zope. I've never had problems starting Zope. RH 7.1 I have an updated cvs Zope installed. I have an updated cvs Python installed. It is the cvs Python which is called on the commandline or via /usr/local/bin/python. Installing Zope via wo_pcgi.py and then starting Zope via ./z2.py gives me this: the -h output ... -W port The WebDAV: command not found ./z2.py: line 288: syntax error near unexpected token `sys.path.insert(0,' ./z2.py: line 288: `sys.path.insert(0, '%s/lib/python' % swhome)' I don't know if I've encountered a bug or did something wrong. Any suggestions appreciated. Thanks, Jimmie Houchin ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Zope Development Roadmap Components
While reading the Zope Development Roadmap about components I had a question. It says: """Components will be edited via the filesystem as .py files. Components will probably be checked into and out of Zope via a CVS like facility. Components can be tested locally without checking them into Zope.""" What does this say about developing components with Py/Perl Scripts? It looks to be closer to the current Python Products. I like the idea above but just trying to understand the big picture about the future. Any enlightenment appreciated. Jimmie Houchin ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Development Roadmap Components
Yes this is what I was looking for and somewhat expecting. I can understand the challenge in getting ZClass, Py/Perl Script, "composite components" done right. In fact to me they could easily make things more complex. Potentially more complex process and more complex machinery to handle it. I would definitely be for a simpler model of components which are just as describe .py files and an interface. I read somewhere that doing components right is/can be hard. The author wrote that component creation is done by the few for the many. There will be fewer component authors and more component users and integrators. I agree with his assessment. I think what will make it easier for component authors will be well a defined API. This appears to me what y'all are doing. If I understand correctly. Thanks. Jimmie Houchin Michel Pelletier wrote: On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Jimmie Houchin wrote: While reading the Zope Development Roadmap about components I had a question. It says: """Components will be edited via the filesystem as .py files. Components will probably be checked into and out of Zope via a CVS like facility. Components can be tested locally without checking them into Zope.""" What does this say about developing components with Py/Perl Scripts? It looks to be closer to the current Python Products. Yes. We have thought a bit about "composite components" and "persistent modules" and stuff like that, but we only went so far into elaboration when we realized that it required lots, and lots of thought and effort. The current component effort is much simpler, a component is: an object with an interface. If this is a ZClass with Perl-based script methods, then so be it, but we haven't thought far enough into what ZClasses really are to start thinking about giving them interfaces. Is this sort of what you're asking? -Michel ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Storing part of an object on the file system
I would like to throw in something I've been thinking about for the last week or so. I would like to use Tux as the front-end of my website. For info on Tux. ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/tux/tux-2.0/ http://www.redhat.com/products/software/ecommerce/tux/ From the website: """TUX is a kernel-based, threaded, extremely high performance HTTP server. It is able to efficiently and safely serve both static and dynamic data. TUX moves the HTTP protocol stack to the kernel, and can handle requests for data with both kernel-space and user-space modules.""" It has been reported to do over 10,000 requests per second on a static html file of 1666 bytes. It did over 1,000 rps doing a cgi program, opening and closing the cgi app each request. I read this from Linux Weekly News which got it off of the Linux Kernel Mailing List. From what I understand Tux 1.0 holds the SpecWeb record. Tux 2.0 is faster. :) I think it would be interesting to see Zope fronted by Tux. If there were a Tux cache manager for Zope that would be awesome. I've been trying to figure out how to maximize what Tux can serve and what Zope can manage. An optimal mix between the two could create a very manageable and fast website. Tux primarily caches what is available on the file system. It can serve multiple files (objects) sequentially as instructed by the "user module" as part of a single client request, thus assembling the request to send to the client. I'm butchering the explanation, but any ways, it's fast. Unfortunately, I am still working on understanding Tux and how to best use it. I don't program C and so reading the sample code hasn't sunk in yet. I don't know how to integrate it with Zope. It would be great it one of the brilliant people on this list could figure this out. :) :) :) Just thinking out loud. Jimmie Houchin Andy McKay wrote: Ok whack idea #34... Well sort of, the idea was sparked by ExtFile (yes its all his fault honest). We want to have files on the file system for many reasons which I won't go into now, just take it for granted. But we also want some of the objects information to be in the standard data.fs, so we can catalog it use acquisition provide a simple interface to it and so on. So far you are saying thats ExtFile and you are right. But we want to extend it to any object anywhere, instead of storing the data attribute in the object and pickling it in the ZODB I want to be able to store the data attribute on the file system. This gives us loads of advantages we also thought this would be extremely useful to other people. We've bounced around ideas on how to do this and here the only two so far: -we could overload the data attribute with a class that on Pickling into the ZODB instead writes it on to the filesystem... -we could in the ZODB put a hack to say if pickling something with so and so attribute do this instead... I feel like this something I should just not be doing, but it would be great if I could get it work... -- Andy McKay. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Massive scalability
I would like to echo Michael's sentiment and comments. I am at the beginning stage of Zope development of a website which will have millions of objects of a single object type and multiple of such. I currently plan on using mounted databases for the various object repositories and am currently exploring the best means to implement such. I know of the mountedfilestorage product by Anthony, but with the massive refactoring happening for 2.3 I am watching the horizon for how such will be implemented in the future. I think there are many who would like to keep their development within Zope using objects. Any information on best use or development strategies for such setups would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jimmie Houchin Michael Bernstein wrote: Andy McKay wrote: I am currently planning two separate 'Archive' type projects/Products. In both cases, I need to make sure that my implementation will scale to hundreds of thousands or even millions of objects. I would recommend using an RDMBS behind Zope then. Its faster, simpler and I have always had better results. While that would work for the simple object case, I find the prospect of storing a bunch of BLOBs (for the image data of the Photos) in an RDBMS to be *most* un-appetizing. Storing them on the server's file-system seems in-elegant as well. I'd like to build both of these applications as products that can be easily installed into a Zope server (as easily as Squishdot). Adding a dependency on an RDBMS or requiring additional setup on the server's FS seems a step in the wrong direction. I'm working with objects here. I prefer to work with them compared to the approach of decomposing my objects into RDBMS records or files, and recomposing. So the question remains: Will either approach (within the ZODB) allow me to scale the application to hundreds of thousands (or even millions) of objects indexed in a ZCatalog? I should stress that I am far more concerned about the number of objects than I am about the number of 'hits'. I know that the ZCatalog/ObjectManager approach used by Squishdot will scale to over 9,000 objects (the number of postings to date at technocrat.net), So I'm reasonably certain that my proposed ZCatalog/BTree Folder approach will be at least as scalable. I'm slightly less confident about the Specialist/Rack approach, because I don't know of any sites that have used them to store that many objects in the ZODB, but only slightly. However, so far I have not heard of anyone storing and indexing as many homogenous objects as I am talking about. I'd really like to hear from anyone who has attempted to do this or something similar. Does anyone know of any hidden 'gotchas' when dealing with this many objects, regardless of the hit-load on the system? Thanks, Michael Bernstein. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] New UI for 2.3
Hello, I personally don't have a problem with the new UI as far as the frames are concerned. I have not used it on a laptop, so can't express any opinions concerning such. I do prefer the blue to the black. Concerning branding, it seems to me (my opinion) that up at the top would generally be more effective. Also as the items in the tree in the left frame increases, the branding keeps getting pushed down and off. It also pushes down and off the items that Brian speaks of wanting to put into the top frame. The top frame doesn't consume much more and sometimes less than some of the toolbars the browser provide and many users use. Currently in the left frame the user id is at the top. So a certain amount of the 32 pixels consumed in the new ui are already being consumed in the left frame. What is impacted the most is the right frame. These ui elements (and branding) are important and do need placed somewhere. I would rather have them like they are instead of at the bottom left frame where there position changes according to the number of items. Just my opinion. :) A couple of UI elements I've been thinking about. I don't like the "Create public interface" checkbox automatically defaulting to creating a DTML Document. Because there are multiple items which could be used as the index_html I would like to see a dropdown box/menu which allow you to select the ui element. I think currently most will want DTML Method. In the future we might be choosing HiperDOM or XMLDocument. I think a dropdown would be nice, with a potential user selected default, which could be listed in the dropdown as "default". For people come from a traditional IDE or other types of apps it isn't necessarily intuitive to click the back button or menu item in order to exit a screen that you entered but changed your mind about and are doing nothing. Yes, I understand most of us here understand that no transaction has taken place and simply going "back" or clicking on another link is okay. However, for the non-programmer content-provider user of Zope a "cancel" button which goes back might be a nice ui element. Just some thoughts. Jimmie Houchin ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Problem in current CVS
Hello, I just updated my current CVS build of Zope2. I do ./start and get a traceback. The last lines of which are: File "/usr/local/zope/Zope2/ZServer/HTTPResponse.py", line 95, in ? from ZPublisher.HTTPResponse import HTTPResponse, end_of_header_search ImportError: cannont import name end_of_header_search I go to the line in HTTPResponse and end_of_header_search is commented out. Is there a reason? Looks like it may have been part of Evan's content-length bugfix? Thanks, Jimmie Houchin ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] Ah, I found it -- Estimate of community size
I would have to say that both are accurate at the time they were given. However, neither will be a truly accurate measurement of the users of Zope and the Zope community. They each measure different things. One measures the people who have "joined" Zope.org. """The extremely large Members folder (11139 of you!)""" The other measures subscribers to the mailing list. """There are 1617 members of [EMAIL PROTECTED]""" There are a few people who have different identities on the Zope memberships. There will also be possible duplication on the mailing list due to different email addresses. There are also people who neither join Zope.org nor subscribe to the mailing list, but who have nevertheless downloaded and use Zope. There also are people who have been on the mailing lists, learned and then subsequently left the lists, but still use Zope. There are also those who no longer do. So, who knows what an accurate figure would be? And I can't tell you if there are any dimpled chads. :) But as you can see there are many more unique visitors than either of the numbers. Also, keep in mind that the Zope community on [EMAIL PROTECTED] is an active and vibrant community. As Zope matures, grows into it's own and the documentation catches up, it will get even better. The future is bright. :) Jimmie Houchin albert boulanger wrote: Now, I wonder wich statement is more accurate: http://www.zope.org/Documentation/ZWN/ZWN-2000-09-26/index_html?pp=1 Zope Web by Ethan Fremen Exorcising Zope.org The extremely large Members folder (11139 of you!) and acl_users folder was causing Zope.org to load nearly 50 MB of "Ghosts" - stateless objects - into memory. or From: http://www.zope.org/Documentation/ZWN/ZWN-2000-11-08 "Zope Web by Ethan Fremen How Many Zopatistas? [] There are 1617 members of [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 409 members of zope-dev. There are 200,000 unique visits to zope.org every month (ok, that's a record :). ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope-dev] License issues
I personally do not have a problem with the Zope license. However, I do use a lot of GPLed software and appreciate it. I also am appreciative of the ability to use Zope and to take advantage of the wonderful work that DC has produced. When the original debate occurred I was in support of DC maintaining some type of button crediting DC. DC has provided us with an incredible tool and has provided the community with tools in which to have a community and contribute toward Zope. Whatever license is chosen I would like to see it be one which protects everybody, especially DC. About a year or two ago Lutris, the people who do Enhydra, were debating about how to license their product XMLC. After researching the idea they decided, with the communities support, to adopt the GPL. Their primary reason was to prevent a bigger fish (with $$$) from capitalizing on their work and possibly inhibiting their ability to compete. The GPL would protect DC from predatory competitors. It would also allow for Zope's adoption in certain environments. I also believe some people would relicense their products to the GPL if it were Zope's native license. The source code maintains DC's intellectual credit and investment in Zope. Zope.org could also possibly provide a higher profile for DC without necessarily being "obnoxious" or being overtly/overly possessive. I've made some statements about how the GPL can help DC and the community. What I don't see is if or what negatives would come into play with such a change. Does anybody see any problems? Does anyone at DC including Hadar and their new VC friends? Jimmie Houchin Paul Everitt wrote: Some quick points on this. First, feel free to talk on this list about ways that Zope developers can license their stuff. It's a constructive discussion, and since I'm not a Zope developer, I can ignore it. :^) Second, regarding the licensing of Zope itself, ChrisP is right that I'm the guy on that. Or more specifically, Hadar Pedhazur (our board chairman) and I run the zope-license email alias. He and I had previously decided that, after the round closed, we'd take a fresh look at our licensing strategy. Basically, we'd like to get out of the business of having our own license, and we're open to the idea of a license that is more GPL-friendly, in the spirit of Apache, Python, etc. Thus, continue discussing what you need to do your jobs and give us some time to hash out a proposal. Thanks! --Paul On 14 Nov 2000 09:29:11 -0800 Simon Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Juan, thanks for shining some light towards this murky area. Maybe ZWiki and other zope products need to be LGPL or dual-licensed, maybe the zope license can use some refinement. I for one won't know without seeing some enlightened discussion of the issue. This stuff is unsexy but important. Best regards, -Simon ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] FYI: Digital Creations secures $12M round of investment
I would also like to add my congratulations to all at Digital Creations. I think this will help DC, Python and Zope become more formidable in the web app and content management marketplaces. This provides DC with increased ability to implement what is in their heads. :) This is an exciting time to be in the Zope community. Woohoo!!! :) Jimmie Houchin Paul Everitt wrote: Hello Zope friends. At long last we at Digital Creations are able to publicly say it: we've closed a $12M round of investment: http://www.digicool.com/News/CRound.html It's out on the newswire now. We'll start pushing it out more over the next 24 hours. This, needless to say, is a big deal, one that we've worked on really, really hard this year. With the tech market downturn since March, and with Open Source particularly getting a beating, it's vindicating to get good funding from strong partners. When everyone else was getting wads of cash during the go-go times, we were quietly at work, being frugal, making money, making a business case, and being profitable. We're proud to say that we got our money when money was hard to find. Let's put it this way: Open Source business is hardly dead. It's just different, and better. What will this mean? First and foremost, Zope and Digital Creations will become very competitive, very quickly, along a number of axes. As the PythonLabs move indicated, we are taking aggressive steps to become a dramatic force in the worlds of content management, web application services, and Open Source leadership. With this round, our business model has been validated. As a member of the Zope community, I view this as "the dream delivered". Many of us care deeply about this thing we're involved in, and sometimes it feels like a longshot. Though this is still a David vs. Goliath, David now has a slingshot, and a bit of steel in his eye. Thanks go to the folks here at DC, to the Zope and Python communities, and to the companies around the world that are basing their business on Zope. Onward! --Paul ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Website develoment with CVS Zope?
Chris Withers wrote: Jimmie Houchin wrote: I know because I will be developing and changing files in these directories but not via CVS that CVS will probably complain about the changes. Is this a problem? Depends, if you're changing Zope source files, then you may get some merge conflicts, but there shouldn't be any real problems. If you edit/add file which aren't stored in cvs.zope.org, CVS will just ignore them, it's good like that ;-) I will also be wanting to use the CVS of other Zope items like the PTK. Does this impact this in any way? Just checkout the PTK/whatever to the appropriate bit of the Zope tree. IIRC, the PTK CVS structure isnt' conducive to doing this, though, which could be a pain :-( HTH, Chris ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Website develoment with CVS Zope?
Thanks for the reply. Chris Withers wrote: Jimmie Houchin wrote: I know because I will be developing and changing files in these directories but not via CVS that CVS will probably complain about the changes. Is this a problem? Depends, if you're changing Zope source files, then you may get some merge conflicts, but there shouldn't be any real problems. If you edit/add file which aren't stored in cvs.zope.org, CVS will just ignore them, it's good like that ;-) As far as I know the only files I'll be adding or editing will be my own Python files, Products, and the ZODBs. If it'll just ignore them or maybe complain and then ignore, I'll be fine. For an experiment once, I added a file and then did an update. It complained about a file not be added thru CVS or something as such. I just wanted to make sure when ZODB changes and such it wouldn't be a problem. I will also be wanting to use the CVS of other Zope items like the PTK. Does this impact this in any way? Just checkout the PTK/whatever to the appropriate bit of the Zope tree. IIRC, the PTK CVS structure isnt' conducive to doing this, though, which could be a pain :-( Are you saying checkout the PTK into the directory in which it should be installed in the Zope installation rather than into the ZopePTK directory that it defaults to? I was thinking from reading some of the PTK list that this isn't painless. Maybe this can be improved when it reaches release status. HTH, Yes, and thanks. Chris Jimmie Houchihn ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Website develoment with CVS Zope?
I am about to begin development and would like to use the CVS version of Zope. I have already setup my /usr/local/Zope/Zope2 directory and gotten Zope via CVS. When I have it install Zope and begin development are what issues or problems will I have when I do an update? I know because I will be developing and changing files in these directories but not via CVS that CVS will probably complain about the changes. Is this a problem? I will also be wanting to use the CVS of other Zope items like the PTK. Does this impact this in any way? How do those of you who develop using the CVS version do it? Any advice or best practices? Thanks for any help. Jimmie Houchin ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-dev] Task, Job or Operation?
Ooops! Wrong list. Sorry. Will post to Zope-dev. Jimmie Houchin Jimmie Houchin wrote: [snip] ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Keeping app logic in Zope (was Paul's talk in Paris)
Warning, this message has been composed over several days. If my thoughts wander, that's one excuse. :) Simon Coles wrote: [snip] Python products could be endangered species because its managed in the file system, which isn't in the "all tiers as managed content" thing. I guess this means that Python Methods and ZClasses will be the preferred model? The reason I wonder is because I am right now beginning development of a new website. I had been planning on doing most of my development in Python Products as I currently have no particular need of thru the web development and I like Python. No particular aversion to ZClasses or Python Methods just that I know Python products can do what I want and need. I understand the the desire to move to a system where the all of the web app resides within the Zope environment instead of parts on the file system. What is the current status regarding incorporating Python Methods into the Zope core? Just looked at the Python Methods wiki at: http://dev.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/PythonMethods/FrontPage This is issue also affects the Problem paragraph of the Vision Statement on this wiki, as this broadens the scope of users who choose to use PMs or reasons thereof. Also within the desires stated above (to remain with the Zope environment, ZODB) will there be a means for those with "authority" to authoritatively do stupid things with Python such as shoot yourself in the foot? :) Not that anyone desires to do something stupid, but sometimes the ability to do harm also enables the ability to do good. That is an aspect of freedom. Some things require interaction outside of the Zope environment. What will be the official Zope way of handling these types of things? Back again from the Python Methods wiki. :) A question/suggestion as a part of the Python Methods proposal was to move External Methods to become a part of Python Methods. This is on the Current Issues pages. I added a comment to the wiki. Basically, in light of Paul's comments and my above desires for necessary expressiveness depending on the authority of the user and the situation, I think putting External Methods into the Python Methods part of Zope core would be good. It would allow for EMs to be in the ZODB instead of on the file system. As I've thought about these issues and with knowing that I want to use ZEO I think the above would be of benefit in developing my site. The less I involve the file system the easier it should be to distribute my web app logic throughout the ZEO system. I think I'm talking myself into it. :) For me this is a change in direction for Zope development thought. Any suggestions, thoughts or comments appreciated. Thanks for letting me ramble. Jimmie Houchin ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] zcatalog -- returning context of hits on fulltext
Hello, I may be clueless and out of my league here and I haven't read the sources so I don't know... Well enough of a disclaimer. :) Is there anything in there which can provide the seek or byte position of the hit within text object? If so, it shouldn't be too difficult to read X bytes before and after the position and thereby provide what your looking for. This would be nice to have out of the box. Just a thought. Jimmie Houchin Jean Jordaan wrote: Hi Geir make a pythonmethod that returns the first 200 letters or something of the text , I've already got a pretty structured-text "Abstract" field that tells about the document, but I'd like to *see* the sentence on page 67 or wherever in a document where my term matches, so I know whether it's mentioned in passing or really important .. -- jean ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] zcatalog -- returning context of hits on fulltext
Hello, I may be clueless and out of my league here and I haven't read the sources so I don't know... Well enough of a disclaimer. :) Is there anything in there which can provide the seek or byte position of the hit within text object? If so, it shouldn't be too difficult to read X bytes before and after the position and thereby provide what your looking for. This would be nice to have out of the box. Just a thought. Jimmie Houchin Jean Jordaan wrote: Hi Geir make a pythonmethod that returns the first 200 letters or something of the text , I've already got a pretty structured-text "Abstract" field that tells about the document, but I'd like to *see* the sentence on page 67 or wherever in a document where my term matches, so I know whether it's mentioned in passing or really important .. -- jean ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope Add-on Installation
Here is a page by Butch Landingin at http://www.zope.org/Members/butchland/ZopePackProposal He talks about the need for a Zope Pack Manager. Or maybe that should be Zope Package Manager? :) It would be nice to have a single unified way of preparing apps, products or whatever for distribution. The process be nicely automated or provide a user interface for building the distributable. The install process would also need to be just as painless. Jimmie Houchin Chris Withers wrote: Hi, Zope currently has two ways of distributing products: 1. Tarballs containing python products 2. .zexps containing methods, ZClass products and the like. Things are now getting bad as products are emerging (PTK, Tracker, etc) which require both of these to get a single product working which is horrible :/ What is needed is a new way of installing Zope stuff for the following categories: 1. Python Base Products (Like ZPatterns, PTKBase and TrackerBase) 2. Instantiatable Products (like TinyTables, Squishdot and Tracker) 3. Interface Skins (none right now, DemoPortal is probably the closest) Most importantly of all, collections of the above... (PTK is an example here, Tracker would be as well) Does anyone have any ideas? cheers, Chris ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope] ZODB performance: reads to writes
Thanks for the reply. This is what I understand based on your reply and from the paper by Jim. 1. That there are solutions currently being worked on by DC (implied). Yes, worked on does not mean 'Coming Soon to a Zope near You!' :) 2. That if an app, either by it's nature or thru it's developers design, eliminates or handles conflicts before commits are made to the ZODB, that high write situations are not a problem. Slap me upside the head if I misunderstand. :) If this is the case then I think this is great news. Okay, it may not be news. And I may be the only clueless soul in ZopeLand. :) Question: Is number 1. below something that would take place with BTree Folders? Or is this apples and oranges? Once again, thanks. Jimmie Houchin Evan Simpson wrote: - Original Message - From: Jimmie Houchin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Will an app as described above still suffer from problems with high writes? Possibly, but only if there are hidden hotspots. For example, in your message-appending scenario, are these messages being added to the same Folder? If so, the Folder is getting written with each object added to it, and will be a source of conflict. If the objects that your users are editing are cataloged, the Catalog is a hotspot. There are two independent attacks on this problem underway: 1. Make Folders and Catalogs store meta-data about their contents in a data structure consisting of small persistent objects, like B-Tree nodes. This reduces the scope of potential conflict (and the size of the update required by a write) to the size of one of these nodes. 2. Implement the application-level conflict handling you read about, so that Folders and Catalogs can decide that two writes don't conflict after all, and merge them into a single update. Cheers, Evan @ digicool 4-am ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope-dev] New Help System in 2.2
I too agree the new help system looks nice. I was considering at one point jumping up and writing a documentation system for Python/Zope. Unfortunately my notes, not many, are at work. But some things I had in mind were based on something like JavaDoc. I am not a Java expert and have not really used JavaDoc much but have seen some of its documentation. I was thinking it would be nice to have a parser which could extract documentation from source to create external documentation files which could be generated into multiple formats, html, xml, etc. I would have needed to create a documentation format which could be used in source but extracted. I was not going to use docstrings as they are intended for a different purpose and are compiled into the bytecode. I was thinking that the parser could run over a module and extract functions, methods, variables and properties, etc. and create a stub framework on a form. A documenter could then edit documentation for any or all of the methods, save and it would be inserted appropriately into source. I thought it would also be nice if the documentation tree would also parallel the source tree and have a corresponding colorized html rendering of the module for browsing. This way one could jump from documentation to source at will. I was basically making idea notes. I was going to look at the current doc generating and py2html tools available first. Then Starship went down and I couldn't access them. :( I also wanted to see what the DC team was doing. I think it would be nice to see some ideas and processes for what and how Amos and Michel are doing with the documentation and how the community can help. Just some thoughts. Jimmie Houchin Jason Spisak wrote: Shane Hathaway writes: Jason Spisak wrote: I was just browsing the help system and can I just say it is terrfic. The .py files especially. Not that python isn't that easy to read, but having the ZQR type stuff handy online is a huge win. Is that stuff updated from the source on the fly? Almost. It's actually written in separate files that mirror the structure of the real source. And I'd like to bring up the point that I wonder why it is written that way. Wouldn't it make more sense to self-document the source? If the issue is that some methods shouldn't be callable from a URL, there are better solutions to that problem (this is written to DC mainly): Is this the reason that it's not pulling the docs from the source? That's not a good idea. With all the effort that Michel put in to work around not documenting in the source, he could have fixed it so that it pulled the docs from the source on the fly without effecting the URL access. 1) Enahnce the permissions system to include "Accessible via HTTP", "Accessible via FTP", etc. 2) Use an underscore as the first character of a docstring to indicate a non-URL-callable method. I just looked at it and that seems like doing work twice. Why not just document your source? Wonderingly, Jason Spisak CIO HireTechs.com 6151 West Century Boulevard Suite 900 Los Angeles, CA 90045 P. 310.665.3444 F. 310.665.3544 Under US Code Title 47, Sec.227(b)(1)(C), Sec.227(a)(2)(B) This email address may not be added to any commercial mail list with out my permission. Violation of my privacy with advertising or SPAM will result in a suit for a MINIMUM of $500 damages/incident, $1500 for repeats. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope] IRC clients
I haven't been to an IRC chat in over 5 years so this is pretty new to me. I also just built myself a new Linux machine for development and was not familiar with any Linux IRC clients. For those in a similar situation here is a little info on some Linux/*nix IRC clients. I think I'll try X-Chat as I use Gnome. We'll see. See y'all there tomorrow. By the way the links below came from Linuxberg.com aka Tucows. If you click on one it should take you to a page to direct you to the closest mirror. Hope this helps. Jimmie Houchin IRCII (console client, most popular, full featured) 5 penguins http://download.tucows.com/perl/linuxRegion.html?Target=/conhtml/preview/017-002-003-006C.html X-Chat (according to the Gnome site, "X-Chat: the canonical GNOME IRC client") Can be compiled with or without Gnome. 4 penguins Homepage for more info: http://xchat.linuxpower.org/ http://download.tucows.com/perl/linuxRegion.html?Target=/gnomehtml/preview/020-002-004-002C.html YagIRC (GTK client, similar to mIRC) 5 penguins http://download.tucows.com/perl/linuxRegion.html?Target=/x11html/preview/019-002-004-009C.html kIRC (KDE client, similar to mIRC) 4 penguins http://download.tucows.com/perl/linuxRegion.html?Target=/kdehtml/preview/021-002-004-002C.html ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] ANN: Perl For Zope
I have kept silent on this issue while watching comments fly by. I'll agree with a comment Paul made about passions being high and that can be a good thing. Disagreements are sometimes inevitable, however we do not have to be disagreeable. It seems that many here who do not share the concerns of others have left technically arguments and gone on to calling others childish or silly. It is reasonable and understandable that you may not agree with them. However to resort to such behaviour is below this community. I hope the concerns expressed by many here do not happen. However, that does not mean they can't. I like many here chose Python then Zope. I chose Python not Perl. What is taking place here and has caught many in the community off guard is somewhat of a change in what Zope is. Some have expressed that Zope is already multilingual. That is true to a certain extent. But Perl does not add to Zope capabilities that Python does not have. (IMHO) In this perspective it does not add to Zope. Python, DTML, SQL, XML, XML-RPC, XSLT, etc. are not equivalent languages. They have different scopes and capabilities. Python and Perl are reasonably equivalent in capabilities and it boils down to personal preference on the choice. This brings us back to a change in what Zope is or what Zope has been seen as. This provides an opportunity for DC and the community to really define what is Zope. This discussion needs to clarify what Zope's definition is. This will promote greater understanding and reduce misunderstandings. To this point in many peoples minds Zope has been defined as being Python. This changes things. Yes I understand Zope itself is built in and will continue to be built in Python and C. This is a paradigm shift for many here. Once this settles down, I hope this community will be stronger for it. More comments to follow. Jimmie Houchin ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Perl Zope
Paul Everitt wrote: Adam wrote: What makes me most uncomfortable about this is the opportunity cost. Every hour of development time integrating Perl is one less hour As I tried to mention in my "Redux" post a few moments ago, this isn't the case. ActiveState is doing the engineering. Just a quick comment here. Paul, if DC is compensating ActiveState in this contract it is still using DC resources. Those $dollars going to ActiveState change what DC could do if it added staff or whatever. Whether or not it is a worthwhile goal is another topic. :) working on other parts. I can say without any reservation that the lack of documentation has done ten times as much as lack of Perl support to make my time with Zope difficult. You're absolutely right on this. Amos' post recently described the various things in various stages of release that should give some hope for the situation. These things really are an improvement. I'm crossing my fingers that this turns into a torrent of material that turns an area that is a nightmare into an area of great pride. At least that's the hope. :^) I look forward to seeing these improvements. :) Jimmie Houchin --Paul ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Hadar's Thoughts on Perl for Zope (LONG)
I would like to thank Paul, Jim and Hadar for expressing their opinions, desires and goals for Zope in a level headed and rational manner which did not necessitate the putting down of others opinions. This kind of leadership at DC for Zope is one of the greatest encouragements I have for using Zope. It is also why I think the best will come out of this not the worst. :) Thanks guys. Keep up the good work. Jimmie Houchin ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] ANN: Perl For Zope
Are Python Products considered implementation level? Or another question. What are the current reasons that Perl Products are a no no? Where are the lines for having other languages being first class citizens of Zope without them being "implementation languages"? I think this also goes back to and begs the question of what is core Zope and what is built upon it? This somewhat could be answered by the modularization of Zope and it's companion packages. Just a couple of questions to hopefully clarify things. Jimmie Houchin Paul Everitt wrote: Bill wrote: [snip stuff about Perl's OO model] It's funny that you bring this up. One of the really interesting things about this project so far is learning about Perl internals. You're description is, apparently, pretty accurate. However, the way we've done this mitigates the issue in two ways. First, Perl doesn't need objects to fulfill its job. Functions are bound to the object system. All the real stuff (persistence, transactions, etc.) is in Zope (read: Python). Honestly, the goal really _is_ to make Perl a scripting language for Zope, not an implementation language! The contract says so! Second, ActiveState will work on improving facilities missing in Perl, such as reflection, to support our requirements (e.g. sniffing at method signatures). --Paul ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
