Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Trunk open for feature development towards Zope 3.5
On 5 Jul 2007, at 17:18 , Stephan Richter wrote: On Thursday 05 July 2007 10:48, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: I'm not sure what the interaction patterns are, e.g. who's responsible for updating the tree's pointers to newer packages. The maintainers of those packages? They probably know best ... I disagree. While Stephan raises a few good points that still need to be adressed for the tree, I personally prefer not working with the tree anymore. If people want to keep it around, that's fine, but then they should maintain it. I disagree. This is like saying Zope 3.4.0 comes out, so we do not support Zope 3.3. People have real-world projects and we cannot ignore them. Just because we live on the edge, we cannot expect that other people do. There are still people out there using the directive and macro- based UI patterns! That's fine. I think we *are* paying our dues to backward compatibility by releasing Zope 3.4.x as the traditional tarball and by keeping a tree with externals, in addition to doing the eggs stuff. For *3.4.x*, I agree it's necessary, but I'm very skeptical towards any efforts beyond that. In particular, I wouldn't want to see those individual projects restricted by any release management for a "Zope 3.5" that the subject suggests. I doubt that there'll be a "Zope 3.5". Regarding Christian's original question, I propose to proceed as follows: * since the Zope 3.4 branch of the tree and its releases as tarballs are officially maintained, it should be the Zope 3.4 release manager's job to stitch in all the appropriate tags at the right time (*making* tags of the individual projects shouldn't have to be his task, though). * the trunk of the tree is in the hands of whoever wants to keep running it. ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: Trunk open for feature development towards Zope 3.5
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: > On 5 Jul 2007, at 16:45 , Christian Theune wrote: >> Am Donnerstag, den 05.07.2007, 16:32 +0200 schrieb Philipp von >> Weitershausen: >>> Christian Theune wrote: I've made the release branch for Zope 3.4, you can feel free to start introducing changes for Zope 3.5 into the trunk of the tree. >>> It should be noted that the 'Zope3' tree actually contains little >>> or no >>> code at this point. >>> >>> I haven't yet see you make tags of the individual projects where >>> necessary. Will there be tags of those to represent their state in >>> the >>> Zope 3.4.0b1 release? What about when we go final? >> Right. I will make tags when we go final, I won't make tags until then >> because it's such a pain to keep them synchronised. > > Fair enough. > >> After the 3.4 final, >> we will (hopefully) never again point an external to a branch or the >> trunk but to tags and update the references as needed. > > Agreed. Note that a few packages already have 3.4.x with x>=0 tags. > Not that that's a problem, just so you know :). > >> I'm not sure what the interaction patterns are, e.g. who's responsible >> for updating the tree's pointers to newer packages. The maintainers of >> those packages? They probably know best ... > > I disagree. While Stephan raises a few good points that still need to > be adressed for the tree, I personally prefer not working with the > tree anymore. If people want to keep it around, that's fine, but then > they should maintain it. And their goals are likely different than the package maintainers: the "big tree" should prefer stability in its dependencies, and include new versions only when a particular feature / bugfix is deemed necessary. Note that I don't think we have figured out yet how to handle the "known good working set" problem: not having a handle on that is actually the biggest risk of eggification (really, of the "satellite project" model). Continuous integration (e.g., buildbot testing) against such a working set should be a major goal for us going forward. Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Palladion Software "Excellence by Design"http://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGjRFx+gerLs4ltQ4RAlADAJ9lXZjabs0drB+8jtETVPpxmePZJQCgtbGq qbLYbDtW34Oyq6LYpDDnORg= =PJbd -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Trunk open for feature development towards Zope 3.5
On Thursday 05 July 2007 10:48, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: > > I'm not sure what the interaction patterns are, e.g. who's responsible > > for updating the tree's pointers to newer packages. The maintainers of > > those packages? They probably know best ... > > I disagree. While Stephan raises a few good points that still need to > be adressed for the tree, I personally prefer not working with the > tree anymore. If people want to keep it around, that's fine, but then > they should maintain it. I disagree. This is like saying Zope 3.4.0 comes out, so we do not support Zope 3.3. People have real-world projects and we cannot ignore them. Just because we live on the edge, we cannot expect that other people do. There are still people out there using the directive and macro-based UI patterns! Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU Physics & Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student) Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: Trunk open for feature development towards Zope 3.5
Am Donnerstag, den 05.07.2007, 16:32 +0200 schrieb Philipp von Weitershausen: > Christian Theune wrote: > > I've made the release branch for Zope 3.4, you can feel free to start > > introducing changes for Zope 3.5 into the trunk of the tree. > > It should be noted that the 'Zope3' tree actually contains little or no > code at this point. > > I haven't yet see you make tags of the individual projects where > necessary. Will there be tags of those to represent their state in the > Zope 3.4.0b1 release? What about when we go final? Right. I will make tags when we go final, I won't make tags until then because it's such a pain to keep them synchronised. After the 3.4 final, we will (hopefully) never again point an external to a branch or the trunk but to tags and update the references as needed. However, I update the revision numbers until then. I'm not sure what the interaction patterns are, e.g. who's responsible for updating the tree's pointers to newer packages. The maintainers of those packages? They probably know best ... Christian ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: Trunk open for feature development towards Zope 3.5
Stephan Richter wrote: On Thursday 05 July 2007 09:27, Benji York wrote: Christian Theune wrote: I've made the release branch for Zope 3.4, you can feel free to start introducing changes for Zope 3.5 into the trunk of the tree. Now would seem to be the time to discuss the fate of the "big tree". It is entirely possible to build Zope 3 from eggs only, do we want to keep the trunk around? Yes, the recipes are not working well on all platforms yet. Right, unfortunately. I'll note that I'm not very fond of those instance recipes anyway. I think the whole egg and buildout deployment scheme has redefined what instance means: it's really just a zope.conf + site.zcml. I don't need a recipe to set that up. Especially I don't want a recipe that clobbers together a site.zcml. I hate that configuration file-in-a-configuration file business. Also, most of the scripts coming with the release do not have recipe equivalents yet. I see that localy did some work, but it is not yet complete. People trying z3c.formdemo on Windows had no luck, because zopectl does not work on Windows. :-( Also, we still lack a lot of documentation on how to get your project started using the egg-based releases. Downloading a single TGZ was really simple. Having said that, I think a Zope 3 meta egg would be a good start towards documenting how to build a Zope 3 application using eggs. Also, packages like z3c.formdemo give further help. Next, I think we need to identify the scripts that we want to support in our recipes. Actually, we just need to eggify these scripts. Scripts should never contain code. Instead, the code should be somewhere in a package and the script should simply load that package and execute some.package.main() or so. That way we can configure all scripts through entry points. I've been meaning to do that for the scripts you mention below. Here is a list of the ones that I think are important (from "Zope3/utilities"): * finddeps.py * i18nextract.py * i18nmergeall.py * i18nstats.py * runurl.py The others are not that important I think. Of course there are several scripts in "Zope3/bin", but I think those are covered by the current recipes as far as I can tell. Another final issue I see here are the problems we are having with the cheeseshop. I don't think it is ready for the Zope crowd yet. While I think that download.zope.org/distribution is used to get the packages, I have found that buildout comes to a halt when the cheeseshop is not working. I very much agree. The CheeseShop is great, but it could be faster. I think they're looking into "baking" it so that its pages aren't served dynamically every time. -- http://worldcookery.com -- Professional Zope documentation and training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: Trunk open for feature development towards Zope 3.5
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: I personally prefer not working with the tree anymore. If people want to keep it around, that's fine, but then they should maintain it. +1 -- Benji York Senior Software Engineer Zope Corporation ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: Trunk open for feature development towards Zope 3.5
On 5 Jul 2007, at 16:45 , Christian Theune wrote: Am Donnerstag, den 05.07.2007, 16:32 +0200 schrieb Philipp von Weitershausen: Christian Theune wrote: I've made the release branch for Zope 3.4, you can feel free to start introducing changes for Zope 3.5 into the trunk of the tree. It should be noted that the 'Zope3' tree actually contains little or no code at this point. I haven't yet see you make tags of the individual projects where necessary. Will there be tags of those to represent their state in the Zope 3.4.0b1 release? What about when we go final? Right. I will make tags when we go final, I won't make tags until then because it's such a pain to keep them synchronised. Fair enough. After the 3.4 final, we will (hopefully) never again point an external to a branch or the trunk but to tags and update the references as needed. Agreed. Note that a few packages already have 3.4.x with x>=0 tags. Not that that's a problem, just so you know :). I'm not sure what the interaction patterns are, e.g. who's responsible for updating the tree's pointers to newer packages. The maintainers of those packages? They probably know best ... I disagree. While Stephan raises a few good points that still need to be adressed for the tree, I personally prefer not working with the tree anymore. If people want to keep it around, that's fine, but then they should maintain it. ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: Trunk open for feature development towards Zope 3.5
Christian Theune wrote: I've made the release branch for Zope 3.4, you can feel free to start introducing changes for Zope 3.5 into the trunk of the tree. It should be noted that the 'Zope3' tree actually contains little or no code at this point. I haven't yet see you make tags of the individual projects where necessary. Will there be tags of those to represent their state in the Zope 3.4.0b1 release? What about when we go final? -- http://worldcookery.com -- Professional Zope documentation and training ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
