RE: 4D v16 issues

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

Hi Cannon,

> If we encounter a server with a process that has “hung”, can we install 
> ProcDump at that moment and get a capture?
> Or does ProcDump need to be installed and running before the server is 
> launched?

ProcDump does not need to be running before 4D Server is launched.

ProcDump could be executed after the application has already hung, and you 
could use the "generate dump now" option to obtain a DMP file from the hung 
application.

Another option is to open task manager and right-click on the hung application 
and choose "create dump -> create full dump".
* I use Process Explorer from sysinternals.com and it has the Full Dump option.

On Mac there is no ProcDump but a sort of similar operation is available in 
Activity Monitor called "Sample Process".

-Tim



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Re: 4D v16 issues

[Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech]

Hi Tim,

[Not sure if you missed this last week so I thought I’d ask again.]

If we encounter a server with a process that has “hung”, can we install 
ProcDump at that moment and get a capture? Or does ProcDump need to be 
installed and running before the server is launched?

--
Cannon.Smith
Synergy Farm Solutions Inc.
Hill Spring, AB Canada
403-626-3236




> On Sep 22, 2017, at 6:06 PM, Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> ProcDump is a command-line utility by Microsoft to create DMP files:
> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/procdump
> 
> 4D Support has a small interface to help configure ProcDump, referred to as 
> ProcDump_interface:
> https://taow.4d.com/Tool-ProcDump/PS.22410189.en.html
> 
> A DMP file is a dump of a programs memory space.
> The Windows OS usually creates a DMP file automatically when an application 
> crashes, but it doesn't always contain much info and sometimes it doesn’t 
> even get created.
> ProcDump is much more reliable than the Operating Systems automatic mechanism 
> for creating DMP files.
> ProcDump can monitor an application and write a full DMP when it 
> hangs/freezes/crashes or just write a DMP now.
> DMP Files created by ProcDump are usually much more larger and more useful 
> than the standard DMP files from the OS.
> The ProcDump_interface makes configuring ProcDump much easier.

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Re: 4D v16 issues

[Chuck Miller via 4D_Tech]

You might but be aware if you use cross table reports in quick reports, they 
are not as yet available in 64 bit client. If you compile 64 bit server and 32 
bit client on macs you use the new network layer

Regards

Chuck

 Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306
 Informed Solutions, Inc. Fax: (617) 232-1064   
 mailto:cjmillerinformed-solutions.com 
 Brookline, MA 02446 USA Registered 4D Developer
   Providers of 4D and Sybase connectivity
  http://www.informed-solutions.com  

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> On Sep 22, 2017, at 5:58 PM, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> And since you are using the legacy network that means you are still running 
> 32bit 4D Client. If you want to run 64bit client — macOS or Windows — you are 
> required to use the new network layer. Is that your understand too?
> 
> I would think you would get an additional, small speed bump if you ran 64bit 
> 4D Client. Is that your understand too?
> 
> Tim

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RE: 4D v16 issues - speed on VM

[Mike Beatty via 4D_Tech]

> On Sep 22, 2017, at 5:49 PM, 4d_tech-requ...@lists.4d.com wrote:
> 
> I ask because we have been upgrading our customers to V15 R5 and are seeing 
> the opposite, especially on all our VM systems.


I can confirm speed issues with v15 and VM machines — verified on multiple 
servers, with different databases. I had posted an earlier message some time 
ago, but can’t find in reviewing past email.

Mike
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Re: 4D v16 issues

[Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech]

Hi Tim,

If we encounter a server with a process that has “hung”, can we install 
ProcDump at that moment and get a capture? Or does ProcDump need to be 
installed and running before the server is launched?

--
Cannon.Smith
Synergy Farm Solutions Inc.
Hill Spring, AB Canada
403-626-3236




> On Sep 22, 2017, at 6:06 PM, Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> ProcDump is a command-line utility by Microsoft to create DMP files:
> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/procdump
> 
> 4D Support has a small interface to help configure ProcDump, referred to as 
> ProcDump_interface:
> https://taow.4d.com/Tool-ProcDump/PS.22410189.en.html
> 
> A DMP file is a dump of a programs memory space.
> The Windows OS usually creates a DMP file automatically when an application 
> crashes, but it doesn't always contain much info and sometimes it doesn’t 
> even get created.
> ProcDump is much more reliable than the Operating Systems automatic mechanism 
> for creating DMP files.
> ProcDump can monitor an application and write a full DMP when it 
> hangs/freezes/crashes or just write a DMP now.
> DMP Files created by ProcDump are usually much more larger and more useful 
> than the standard DMP files from the OS.
> The ProcDump_interface makes configuring ProcDump much easier.

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Re: 4D v16 issues

[Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech]

Tim - 

> And since you are using the legacy network that means you are still running 
> 32bit 4D Client. If you want to run 64bit client — macOS or Windows — you are 
> required to use the new network layer. Is that your understand too?

Correct.  I’m thinking 2Q of 2018 that we will start looking seriously at 
64-bit clients. It will give the new network layer a little more time to bake, 
and give plug-ins a little more time as well. 

> I would think you would get an additional, small speed bump if you ran 64bit 
> 4D Client. Is that your understand too?

Perhaps. 4D will be using newer APIs, and there will be more memory to work 
with. It’s probably highly application dependent. 

Jeff
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RE: 4D v16 issues

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

> What is “procdump”? I’ve not heard of this before.

ProcDump is a command-line utility by Microsoft to create DMP files:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/procdump

4D Support has a small interface to help configure ProcDump, referred to as 
ProcDump_interface:
https://taow.4d.com/Tool-ProcDump/PS.22410189.en.html

A DMP file is a dump of a programs memory space.
The Windows OS usually creates a DMP file automatically when an application 
crashes, but it doesn't always contain much info and sometimes it doesn’t even 
get created.
ProcDump is much more reliable than the Operating Systems automatic mechanism 
for creating DMP files.
ProcDump can monitor an application and write a full DMP when it 
hangs/freezes/crashes or just write a DMP now.
DMP Files created by ProcDump are usually much more larger and more useful than 
the standard DMP files from the OS.
The ProcDump_interface makes configuring ProcDump much easier.

-Tim



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Re: 4D v16 issues

[Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech]

On Sep 22, 2017, at 4:49 PM, Jeff Kain wrote:

> 15.4, which seemed to be about the same as v13.
> 
> At first I just discounted the early reports, but more and more came in that 
> things were a lot snappier in v16.

And since you are using the legacy network that means you are still running 
32bit 4D Client. If you want to run 64bit client — macOS or Windows — you are 
required to use the new network layer. Is that your understand too?

I would think you would get an additional, small speed bump if you ran 64bit 4D 
Client. Is that your understand too?

Tim


Tim Nevels
Innovative Solutions
785-749-3444
timnev...@mac.com


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Re: 4D v16 issues

[Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech]

On Sep 22, 2017, at 4:49 PM, Jeffrey Kain wrote:

> We reported the stored procedure frozen issue... it's only happened once so 
> far. We're going to get a procdump from the server the next time it happens.

What is “procdump”? I’ve not heard of this before.

Tim


Tim Nevels
Innovative Solutions
785-749-3444
timnev...@mac.com


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Re: 4D v16 issues

[John DeSoi via 4D_Tech]

> On Sep 22, 2017, at 3:19 PM, Tony Ringsmuth via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Only thing I would shy-away from is the new network layer:  I’m dealing with 
> a case right now where if you have larger numbers of users (20+): things get 
> slow.

Mac, Windows or mixed? Is the server Mac or Windows? For an all Mac 
installation, using the old network layer means keeping 32-bit 4D. Finally 
getting to 64-bit 4D was one of the primary benefits of version 16 on the Mac.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.
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RE: 4D v16 issues

[Stephen J. Orth via 4D_Tech]

Jeff,

Thanks...

I ask because we have been upgrading our customers to V15 R5 and are seeing the 
opposite, especially on all our VM systems.


Steve


-Original Message-
From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Kain 
via 4D_Tech
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 3:40 PM
To: 4d_tech@lists.4d.com
Cc: Jeffrey Kain <jeffrey.k...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 4D v16 issues

15.4, which seemed to be about the same as v13.

At first I just discounted the early reports, but more and more came in that 
things were a lot snappier in v16.

> On Sep 22, 2017, at 4:17 PM, Stephen J. Orth <s.o...@the-aquila-group.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Jeff,
> 
> When you say V16 is noticeably faster, compared to what version?

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RE: 4D v16 issues

[Stephen J. Orth via 4D_Tech]

Tony,

Thanks for sharing this information, however that is a rather major issue.  
Every one of our customers is well above 20 users, so this does not bode well.

What kind of response are you getting with regard to this case?


Steve


-Original Message-
From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Tony Ringsmuth 
via 4D_Tech
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 3:19 PM
To: 4D Nug <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Cc: Tony Ringsmuth <ton...@bbsp.com>
Subject: Re: 4D v16 issues

Drew,

I’m happy to report that my users are on 16.2, and things are going quite well.
I have users to the tune of about 500,000 man-hour/month using instances of the 
database that I work-on.

Only thing I would shy-away from is the new network layer:  I’m dealing with a 
case right now where if you have larger numbers of users (20+): things get slow.

Tony

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Re: 4D v16 issues

[Tony Ringsmuth via 4D_Tech]

Drew,

I’m happy to report that my users are on 16.2, and things are going quite well.
I have users to the tune of about 500,000 man-hour/month using instances of the 
database that I work-on.

Only thing I would shy-away from is the new network layer:  I’m dealing with a 
case right now where if you have larger numbers of users (20+): things get slow.

Tony


On 9/22/17, 2:14 PM, "4D_Tech on behalf of Drew Waddell via 4D_Tech" 
<4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com on behalf of 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

We are considering upgrading to 4D v16 fairly soon but have been a little 
spooked by two conversations recently, '4D v16.2 false record locks' and 
'Server Process "Frozen"-ish'.  Have these issues been reported to 4D?  Has 
there been any resolution or workaround?

Thanks,

Drew Waddell
Development Team Lead
Orchard Software Corporation
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RE: 4D v16 issues

[Stephen J. Orth via 4D_Tech]

Jeff,

When you say V16 is noticeably faster, compared to what version?


Steve

*
  Stephen J. Orth
  The Aquila Group, Inc. Office:  (608) 834-9213
  P.O. Box 690   Mobile:  (608) 347-6447
  Sun Prairie, WI 53590

  E-Mail:  s.o...@the-aquila-group.com
*


-Original Message-
From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Kain 
via 4D_Tech
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2017 2:38 PM
To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Cc: Jeffrey Kain <jeffrey.k...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 4D v16 issues

Hey Drew - 

We reported the stored procedure frozen issue... it's only happened once so 
far. We're going to get a procdump from the server the next time it happens.

The record lock issue has only happened twice. From what others have written 
here, it sounds like it's been an issue for others for a long time, although I 
haven't ever seen a lock reported for a user not connected to the server. Not 
too worried about it yet.

Many of our users report that v16 is noticeably faster, which is good... and 
the server is stable using the legacy network layer.

--
Jeffrey Kain
jeffrey.k...@gmail.com


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RE: 4D v16 issues

[Dennis, Neil via 4D_Tech]

I would only use legacy network for now... when users crash with the new 
network, they never get logged out of the system and leave all of their records 
locked. I haven't taken time to reproduce this in a small database and report 
the issue to 4D.

Neil










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Re: 4D v16 issues

[Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech]

Hey Drew - 

We reported the stored procedure frozen issue... it's only happened once so 
far. We're going to get a procdump from the server the next time it happens.

The record lock issue has only happened twice. From what others have written 
here, it sounds like it's been an issue for others for a long time, although I 
haven't ever seen a lock reported for a user not connected to the server. Not 
too worried about it yet.

Many of our users report that v16 is noticeably faster, which is good... and 
the server is stable using the legacy network layer.

--
Jeffrey Kain
jeffrey.k...@gmail.com

> On Sep 22, 2017, at 3:14 PM, Drew Waddell via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> We are considering upgrading to 4D v16 fairly soon but have been a little 
> spooked by two conversations recently, '4D v16.2 false record locks' and 
> 'Server Process "Frozen"-ish'.  Have these issues been reported to 4D?  Has 
> there been any resolution or workaround?

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